PAK-FA and FGFA Thread

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 22 Nov 2012 02:35

From a page on StupidBook called Indian Air Force | Garud Commando Force (don't know if its authentic or run by enthusiasts):

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... permPage=1

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Nov 2012 11:28

via flateric ( use translator )

http://www.odnako.org/magazine/material/show_22213/
http://www.odnako.org/magazine/material/show_22216/

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 13 Dec 2012 07:22

Fourth T-50 Stealth Fighter Flies

MOSCOW, December 12 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's fourth prototype Sukhoi T-50 stealth fighter jet took to the skies for the first time on Wednesday in a 40 minute flight at the Komsomolsk-on-Amur factory in Siberia, Sukhoi said.

"The fourth prototype PAK-FA made its first flight today from the Gagarin factory in Komsomolsk-on-Amur," Sukhoi said, referring to the aircraft by its project name, an acronym for future fifth-generation tactical fighter.

"The flight tested the aircraft's overall integrity and its main engines. The aircraft is making a good impression in all phases of the flying program," Sukhoi said.

The T-50, which will be the core of Russia's future fighter fleet, is a fifth-generation multirole fighter aircraft featuring low-observable technology (stealth), super-maneuverability, supercruise capability (supersonic flight without use of afterburner), and an advanced avionics suite including an X-band active phased-array radar.

The first prototype first flew on January 29, 2010.

The Russian Defense Ministry plans to purchase a first batch of 10 evaluation aircraft and then 60 production-standard aircraft after 2015.

Meanwhile, the Novosibirsk aircraft factory (NAPO) plans to deliver ten more Sukoi Su-34 strike aircraft to the Russian Air Force in the near future, the Air Force's Col. Andrei Bobrun said.

"The Novosibirsk factory will send another ten aircraft to the Voronezh air base in the near future," he said.

http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121212/178100717.html

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 13 Dec 2012 22:01

T-50-4 Flies

Image: http://i.imgur.com/4CUDB.jpg
Image: http://i.imgur.com/GEiZ8.jpg
Image: http://i.imgur.com/jmmOs.jpg
Image: http://i.imgur.com/AQjde.jpg
Image: http://i.imgur.com/GcFFh.jpg

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2012 23:16

"ctrl +" or zoom on the http://i.imgur.com/GcFFh.jpg, now on the folded LERX wings you see rectangular marks - are these the L band aesa?

nits · Post by **nits** » 13 Dec 2012 23:21

*** Self Deleted duplicate entry ***

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 13 Dec 2012 23:55

^^^ Please check the 5 comments back.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 13 Dec 2012 23:57

last month article dated, but then it is a carlo kopp gyan... nevertheless, the Indian FGFA could take these as inputs for modifications and constructive criticisms.

Evaluating the PAKFA

The PAKFA will be very stealthy in most radar bands, from the S down to the L band, although not stealthy against UHF radars such as the E-2 Hawkeye’s APS-145 and the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye’s APY-9 or the UHF-ground based radars used by some Chinese air defense systems.

E-2 aircraft of all variants will have no problem detecting the PAKFA. The problem is that the PAKFA (or other Russian fighters) will likely use Novator “AWACS-killer” A2A missiles to kill the Hawkeye and thus strip the opponent of the ability to detect the PAKFA.

Generally stealthy otherwise, with two exceptions:

1) The PAKFA’s conventional engine nozzles are not stealthy and would thus produce a large radar wave return. This is a problem the PAKFA shares with the F-35, but it can be solved by producing slit engine nozzles, as Lockheed Martin did for the F-22.

2) The PAKFA’s beam fuselage component is deeply sculpted and therefore not stealthy.

other weaknesses:-

PAKFA, like the F-35, can carry only 4 A2A missiles internally,..By virtue of carrying twice as many missiles as the PAKFA, the F-22 stands a twice higher chance of killing the Russian fighter than of being shot down by it.

Irbis-E radar with which the PAKFA will likely be equipped is inferior to the F-22′s APG-77 radar.

PAKFA has a WORSE thrust/weight ratio and a WORSE wing loading ratio than the F-22. At 50% fuel plus a full internal missile load, the PAKFA has a T/W ratio of 1.19:1 and a wing loading ratio of between 330-470 kg/sq m, more likely closer to the higher than to the lower figure, while the F-22 has a T/W ratio of 1.26:1 and a wing loading ratio of 375 kg/sq m.

the rest of the story is a fine read however..

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 19 Dec 2012 09:12

Hi Res pictures of T-50-4 released

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/gallery/events ... t-50-4.wbp

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 19 Dec 2012 09:23

Austin wrote:Hi Res pictures of T-50-4 released

http://www.knaapo.ru/rus/gallery/events ... t-50-4.wbp

when you see the name 'Austin' in the forum activity, you can be pretty sure he has come bearing gifts.

Awesome

member_24146 · Post by **member_24146** » 19 Dec 2012 17:01

PAK-FA in black color, digital art.

I draw this using Paint.NET and TwistedBrush Pro Studio v17.00.

Seems img bbcode not working. anyway below is the link for the picture.
[link]http://lh5.ggpht.com/-qUW5JKaqMXY/TsidO ... -20114.jpg[/link]

member_24146 · Post by **member_24146** » 19 Dec 2012 17:07

vipulmb wrote:PAK-FA in black color, digital art. I draw this using Paint.NET and TwistedBrush Pro Studio v17.00.

Seems img bbcode not working. anyway below is the link for the picture.
[link]http://lh5.ggpht.com/-qUW5JKaqMXY/TsidO ... -20114.jpg[/link]

Can any mod plz correct the links above plz?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2012 19:05

Only 4 a2a missiles internally does not sound right. It has two tandem bays. Should be able to pack in eight meaty aams.
That was the whole idea of having the engines wide apart rather than tightly pressed together f22 style.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 19 Dec 2012 23:30

any more inputs as to max range of these 4 internal weapon bay can hold? [meaning types of missiles]

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 22 Dec 2012 08:47

Thanks Hiten but credit should go to Sukhoi for getting us beautiful hi res.

Guys Stop worrying about the number of missiles PAK-FA can hold unless we hear it from Sukhoi , its merely a rumour started by some one on the numbers of missile internal bay can hold ....just wild speculation as good as any one can guess.

Meanwhile some nice high res

http://russianplanes.net/images/to94000/093683.jpg
http://russianplanes.net/images/to94000/093740.jpg

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Dec 2012 10:26

Austin wrote: http://russianplanes.net/images/to94000/093740.jpg

brilliant! it appears like a single engined monster!

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 22 Dec 2012 11:50

What is that thing in the background in the second picture

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 22 Dec 2012 12:02

^^^Seems to have AEROFLOT markings, but wingtips are equipped with jammers??

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 22 Dec 2012 12:14

krishnan wrote:What is that thing in the background in the second picture

looks like Beriev_A-50

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_A-50

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 22 Dec 2012 12:42

thing is its so unclear that i dont even known whether its the front or rear part

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 22 Dec 2012 16:42

There is a wingtip pod like structure on that biggish plane in the background.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 22 Dec 2012 18:01

From Yefim gordon's book

'Aircraft 976' is superficially similar to the A-50
AWACS, featuring an identical rotodome which,
incidentally, has earned it the nickname
Pogahnka (Toadstool) at L11. Like the A-50, it has
satellite communications and data link antennas
in a large dielectric fairing ahead of the wings

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Dec 2012 19:10

now that question makes me think about advanced photoshop gone messed up. good question

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 22 Dec 2012 19:19

SaiK wrote:now that question makes me think about advanced photoshop gone messed up. good question

in which reference

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 22 Dec 2012 22:29

that sure looks like some AWACS type, but front part doesnt make any sense, maybe some illusion

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Dec 2012 02:27

well.. it was fabulous photograph.. the heat wave smudged many things and at the same time the snow on top of the beriev appeared like a mess along with other smudge.

nice.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 23 Dec 2012 08:06

it is really Aeroflot. will post full pics

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Dec 2012 08:37

Here is a IL-76 PP:

Without the rotordome. IL-76 PP

With Rotordome. This is a command and control aircraft, not just an AWACS. IL-76 SK

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 23 Dec 2012 11:53

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Dec 2012 22:16

Russia’s 5th Generation Fighter Jet to Start State Tests in March

MOSCOW REGION, December 23 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's fifth-generation stealth jet fighter, the T-50, will start state flight tests in March 2013, Russia’s Air Force Commander, Lt. Gen. Viktor Bondarev said on Sunday.

Currently three fighter jets are performing test flights at the Zhukovsky airfield outside Moscow, the fourth plane is undergoing factory test trials and the fifth plane is in the process of factory approvals, the commander said.

All these planes will fly to Akhtubinsk in the Astrakhan Region in March next year where “state tests will begin,” he said.
There will be a total of eight planes involved in state trials in Akhtubinsk throughout 2013, the commander said.
“We’ll complete them [the tests] within 2-2.5 years and somewhere in 2015-early 2016 these planes are expected to go into serial production and we’ll start receiving them and supplying our combat units with them,” the commander said.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Dec 2012 22:16

India and Russia will also ink the final design contract for the joint development of a futuristic stealth fifth-generation fighter at a later stage since it is still being drafted. This R&D contract is pegged at $11 billion, with the two countries supposed to chip in with $5.5 billion each. Each 5th Gen fighter - IAF hopes to induct around 200 of them from 2022 onwards - will cost at least $100 million extra. Consequently, as first reported by TOI earlier, India will eventually spend around $35 billion on this gigantic project.

too much money details with too little about what India's design plan is. Any project charter at minister levels must include synopsis of all the super dooper areas of interests as vision plan.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Jan 2013 05:12

The last I read India was to build the FGFA in India (with Russia building the PAK-FA in Russia).

The question I have is do we have any idea of what percent of parts may/could be supplied from Russia for the FGFA?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Jan 2013 07:19

We have no idea what is India's participation yet.. can someone list them out - which parts, components, LRU etc?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jan 2013 00:00

SaiK wrote:We have no idea what is India's participation yet.. can someone list them out - which parts, components, LRU etc?

I don't this we are there yet... we are still in the design phase of the FGFA project. only at the end of this design phase, the work delineation would happen.

member_23364 · Post by **member_23364** » 03 Jan 2013 07:11

So, taking stock of the PAK FA programme today, we have 4 PAK FA prototypes in the air, and the aircraft is very near to the final configuration for the Russians.

Given the fact that the changes between the PAK FA & the FGFA are mostly electronic {see link below for a detailed analysis of the differences } and my personal take from this is that this would be more akin to the SU-30 MKI customization {albeit more significant changes}

http://www.defenceaviation.com/2008/10/ ... ghter.html

Note that the design for PAK FA has been frozen by the Russians {which means no design inputs from HAL}, I have only one question.

WHAT THE HECK ARE WE SPENDING $10 BILLION {55,OOO CRORE} ON?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jan 2013 07:24

Once the two seater was dropped , out went any chance of tinkering with the airframe . The other core parts are russian like radar, aam, engine.

I guess it might just be project funding it to completion there!

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 03 Jan 2013 09:21

10 billion $$$ that we are spending on is the tech of radar ,stealth & engine which would take another 10-15 years for us to develop . Then also there is a possibility that the project might not be a success.

Rather than going on discussing about the PAK-FA & the FGFA we should think it as the single resource point from where all the technology for our own homegrown,INDIA da puttar AMCA will be born.

The Kid(AMCA) will be born with best AESA, Best of Engine Tech, Best Electronics (combining all the west ,easy,north),Best Missiles & in all the best of the best that world have available now & in future.

just think about the goody good tech. available in the world,just close your eyes & think seriously.

now open your eyes & there it is our own AMCA.

P.S what can we call this big brother of tejas ????

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 03 Jan 2013 09:26

^^

Itna main jaanta hoon ki MOD HAL DRDO ke log ch***tiye nahin hain.

Tho agar 10 billion $ kharch ho raha hai, kuch kaaran se kharch ho raha hoga. Vyarth nahin jayega vah paisa.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Jan 2013 09:35

I would put that money into AMCA.. (if the technology is only an MKI-ization).. unless we know more truth, we have to put some salt always from Russia with Love!.. read recent 10K crore cuts in defence spending.

But then investing in PAK-FA, could be as enabling as LCA was for MKI. If that history repeats, we should have parallel AMCA-FGFA schedules, where both the platforms enables each other. Now, I wish this is the last fighter aircraft participation, and all future ones(if any) is pure indigenous. Perhaps, our kids read this post about such a wish.

It would be at the very least another 5-10 years to establish AMCA.

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 03 Jan 2013 09:55

Singha wrote:Once the two seater was dropped , out went any chance of tinkering with the airframe . The other core parts are russian like radar, aam, engine.

I guess it might just be project funding it to completion there!

i have always wondered what design capabilities HAL would have brought to the table wrt FGFA (just a 2 seater version of the aircraft which is already flying!!) apart from integrating some indian/western avionics??

it seems by dropping (unsure) the 2 seater version, the IAF and the HAL may have avoided the 'delays' that would have naturally accrued in its completion.

besides, they may want IPR on the single seater so that India would have a VETO on PAKFA sale options to other countries.