LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

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keshavchandra
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by keshavchandra »

As per tarmak007, rudra to recieve IOC officially today, begins validation flights ahead of Aero India, along with LCH. Good news finally. :D
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Vipul »

HAL achieves Initial Operational Clearance for advanced light helicopter.

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited on Sunday achieved the Initial Operational Clearance for its Advanced Light Helicopter Mk-IV, the Army Version of ‘Rudra’

K Tamilmani, CEO, Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC), presented the certificate to the company, a HAL release said.

“The occasion gives us the confidence. It is a proud moment for the country and boosts our indigenous activities,” HAL Chairman R K Tyagi said.

The occasion marks HAL’s entry into the elite group of a few industries in the world which design, develop, manufacture and certify a helicopter as weapons system to international standards, he said.

Tamilmani pointed out that the potential for helicopter ‘remains forever’ in India and the country has the ability to meet technical challenges on this front.

HAL MD (Helicopter Division) P Soundara Rajan said integration of multiple weapons systems on the helicopter is a complex assignment.

“In this particular case, it involved four major groups of systems and weapons, involving eight countries Israel, France, Belgium, South Africa, Germany, Italy, USA and India.”

“Nearly 23 km of cables had to be laid and hundreds of hours of flight and ground tests were carried out,” he added.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_20317 »

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?t ... 75.10;wap2

is the unit cost of LCH correct or even in the ballpark? in the above link. (US$17.48 million).

Because if it is then it seems pretty reasonable for what it is being touted to be.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Supratik »

Is there any plan to indigenise the foreign components and engines in the Dhruv and LCH?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by John »

ravi_g wrote:http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?t ... 75.10;wap2

is the unit cost of LCH correct or even in the ballpark? in the above link. (US$17.48 million).
That looks like someone took decimal out of the project cost and put it as the unit cost once again, till it reaches production you can't say how much it costs. But it shouldn't be much more than 15 million.
Regarding the project costs for the LCH, the amount is $ 174.8 million and HAL has revealed that the IAF is set to acquire 65 LCHs and Indian Army will acquire 114 LCHs. As of now, off-base trials at sea level have been conducted followed by off-based hot weather and cold weather trials at high altitude in Ladakh. As for the second prototype, the LCH TD-2, it has been weaponized with more sub-systems and over 20 test flights have been conducted to check various flight parameters. The second prototype was flown to a height of 10,000 feet with an all-up weight (AUW) of 4,900 kgs. The parameters included general handling, slow speed handling, basic automatic flight control system (AFCS) checks and 60 degree bank turns.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Shrinivasan »

Anujan wrote:Where is the helicopter? I didnt see any helicopters :mrgreen:
no Druv seen... only Dhruvis!!!
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by VinodTK »

HAL's Rudra Helicopter gets Initial Operational Clearance

Bangalore, Feb 4 (IANS) The Indian army will get its first weaponised light attack helicopter, Rudra, on Friday.

An armed variant of HAL's Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH), Rudra was formally granted Initial Operational Clearance (IOC) by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification (CEMILAC) at a function here Sunday.

"This gives us the confidence and it is a proud moment for the country and boosts our indigenous activities," R.K. Tyagi, chairman and managing director of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited said on the occasion.

HAL has been working on the Rudra and another variant, the Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) for some time. Rudra, named so by the army, will exclusively be used and nearly 80 of these rotorcraft could be supplied to its various units.

So will the LCH, which will have tandem-seating for two pilots, including the weapons operator. This helicopter though will take a little longer but, significantly, this will be capable of going to the Himalayan heights, thanks to the substantial use of lighter composite materials.

Earlier, the Indian Air Force (IAF) was looking at the LCH for high altitude operations, particularly as no country makes helicopters for the Himalayan heights. Now, whatever that requirement will be decided by the army as the ministry of defence recently placed "future" combat helicopter assets with the Indian army.

The IOC certificate was presented to HAL by CEMILAC CEO K. Tamilmani.

As for the Rudra, HAL's managing director for helicopters Soundra Rajan told India Strategic (http://www.indiastrategic.in) that the Rudra had done 200 hours of prototype test flying, another 50 hours after production and 100 still more hours in different ranges from Pokhran in Rajasthan to Balasore in Orissa and Sikkim in the north-east for weapon trials.

In each case, the helicopter, weapons and systems did well.

Notably, the Mark III version of the rotorcraft, which was without the gun, was flown to 20,000 feet by Army's test pilot Brig Amarjeet Singh Sidhu in August 2011 in high altitude trials.

The Mark IV version, which carries the gun, will be the one to be handed over to the Army at the Aero India venue here.

Rudra is also designated as ALHWSI (ALH-Weapon Systems Integrated). All the electronic, optical and weapon systems have been tested individually and together as an integrated lot, the way they will operate in real conditions.

The machine has three types of weapons, a 20mm French Nexter gun, MBDA's air-to-air and air-to-ground short range missiles, and a Belgian 70mm rocket system. The gun can swing up, down and around.

The aircraft has a glass cockpit, and the weapons can be fired by a pilot simply by moving his head in the direction of the designated target, thanks to the electro-optical systems and cueing helmet from Israel's Elbit.

Systems integration is done by HAL itself and rugged, sophisticated computers are being used on the Rudra as well as the LCH. The aircraft has components also from Germany, South Africa and Italy, thanks indeed to the involvement of German and European companies in its design and development.

The aircraft is propelled by HAL's Shakti engine, jointly developed with Safran Turbomeca of France. That is also the engine of choice for the ALH and its attack variant, LCH.

Soundra Rajan, who has been working on the project for some time, described the machine as powerful and modern, pointing out that the Army has been involved in its development throughout.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by joygoswami »



jamwal
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

Image
LCH with IAF markings ? ?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by SagarAg »

jamwal wrote: LCH with IAF markings ? ?
Now that you have mentioned does IAF and IA have different specifications for the LCH ordered by them. :-? :?: or it will be the same copter with respective paint job.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Even TD-1 flies in the IAF markings, Jamwal mian..
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by A Sharma »

ALH Dhruv: The Truth, First Hand

By Group Captain (Retd) Hari Nair
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Jayram »

Excellent paper highlighting the our indigenous capabilities to the fullest. Will go a long way to reinforcing what our own engineers had to do to overcome "phoren" defects.. Much respect to HAL's engineers on this one..
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by pentaiah »

A Sharma wrote:ALH Dhruv: The Truth, First Hand

By Group Captain (Retd) Hari Nair

Excellent to read, my only comment is there should be along with German teams a Weight Watchers team should be embedded with in each of these Aero programs. For instance Tejas over weight problem... Arjun over weight problem ( all need weight watchers)

The mandate for Weight watchers is to see how material substitution by developing simultaneous diet program ( alloying elements in the material) with other partners like Universities , CSIR labs, Met Labs etc.

It is not at all surprising the Germans used our money to start their Tiger program (at least components0 The Riusians the SU-27/30 MKI
Of course uncle wanted to help Wetinghouse GE et al to take our Nuke deal money and revive the moth balled design...

The PRC folks boght German and Westinghouse PBR designs dusted them and took off from there.....
Same with the junk shell of Russian A/c that PRC bought...

But we can learn from Vikrant etc...
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

Please watch the talk on helicopters at the Aero India seminar. It is very hard to come across 3 high quality talks in succession and graced by a chairman who is a role model to many.

One small information nugget about TD3 is that it is not going to be here before end of this year. Because they want TD3 to be exactly the same as the production variant (learning from the ALH example). They are going to learn everything from TD1 and TD2. TD3 cannot fly till about 8 months after the last change is identified.

It is just amazing how much ALH has taught us. I feel much more comfortable about the IMRH and LUH now. Though there is a problem of thrashing out how a single IMRH can suffice the conflicting requirements of all the 3 services.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Manish_Sharma »

jamwal wrote:Image
LCH with IAF markings ? ?
BIG Leopard pic

Both look so similar lookswise and rolewise.

Here on this link the dictionary gives 11 names in Sanskrit for 'Leopard' :

http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?tinp ... S&link=yes
चित्रक
द्विपीन
क्शुद्रशर्दुल
चित्रव्याघ्र्र
तीक्ष्णद्रिशतक
वेग्व्रत
शार्दुल
वायल
जिह्वप
उप्व्याघ्र
श्वव्यघ्र
Last edited by Suraj on 07 Feb 2013 23:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to remove huge inlined image
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by suryag »

shaardul is my pick
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Mihaylo »

It looks more like a shark to me. Natures finest killing machine. Hangara is my pick
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by vasu raya »

Couple of questions based on Hari Nair's article and relating to adoption of some new concepts,

a)
A three-axis passive vibration damper system called ARIS to isolate vibrations at the MGB itself.
what kind of vibration damping system does Apache use that lets it carry the Longbow radar, if the ARIS is any good to allow such a feature on LCH/Dhruv

b)
Then futuristic composite four-blade hinge-less Fibre Elastomer Lager (FEL) main rotor consisting of only few parts with a composite hub and titanium centre-piece.
when this design choice was made were they not aware of the Navy's requirement of folded rotors? and until recently this has been discussed as a design flaw and Navy now has its own plans.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Pratyush »

suryag wrote:shaardul is my pick

I thought that the LCH was named जनमेजय / Janamejaya. After the some of Parikshit
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

Bala
Never noticed IAF markings :oops: There was a documentary on Arjun on Discovery Channel. The tank had only DRDO painted on it. Strange.


To me, this chopper looks like a wolf. A wolfpack of 5-6 such lean machines hunting down Baki-Cheeni prey will be something to see.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by A Sharma »

Livefist Link

Can somebody explain what the green containers are inside the Rudra? I was under the impression that Rudra will be able to carry same number of troops.It doesnt seems like it.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by abhijitm »

Camouflaged Mandakini
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Mihir »

Manish_Sharma wrote: evil-leopard.jpg[/img]

Both look so similar lookswise and rolewise.
Could you post a larger inline image of the leopard, please? This one doesn't do the beast justice.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by rohitvats »

jamwal wrote:<SNIP>Never noticed IAF markings :oops: There was a documentary on Arjun on Discovery Channel. The tank had only DRDO painted on it. Strange.<SNIP>
The tank would have been bearing the DRDO markings as it was property of DRDO...till the time they are handed over to the IA, no IA markings will appear.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by jamwal »

This chopper isn't a property of IAF either AFAIK. It hasn't been fitted out properly yet.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

And finally the glimpse of the fairing for the tail landing gear. (courtesy: Tarmak007)

Image
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_22605 »

Today there was a function held to commemorate the 50 year partnership between the french and indian helicopter industries. During the event our MD(Shri Soundararajan) said that that Eurocopter was the big brother and has extended a helping hand to HAL when in need and he said he hoped the big brother would continue doing so, for which the president of eurocopter said that the younger brother had grown up now and didn't need any help as was the case 5 decades ago. This in my opinion is the greatest accolade RWR&DC/HAL has ever received and it shows how the world's leading helicopter maker acknowledges the immense strides HAL has made in the field of helicopters. We today can proudly claim to have a tech base which rivals the best in the world.
Cheers!
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by rajanb »

raghuk wrote:Today there was a function held to commemorate the 50 year partnership between the french and indian helicopter industries. During the event our MD(Shri Soundararajan) said that that Eurocopter was the big brother and has extended a helping hand to HAL when in need and he said he hoped the big brother would continue doing so, for which the president of eurocopter said that the younger brother had grown up now and didn't need any help as was the case 5 decades ago. This in my opinion is the greatest accolade RWR&DC/HAL has ever received and it shows how the world's leading helicopter maker acknowledges the immense strides HAL has made in the field of helicopters. We today can proudly claim to have a tech base which rivals the best in the world.
Cheers!
Raghuk,

I wonder, when I read the armchair enthusiasts deride HAL, whether they have ever spent time at HAL? I once spent a month at HAL Nashik. Made freinds with the likes of Wing Commander Asoka and Vasudeav (the test pilots), With the famous KH, with HKL Anand who later became MD of the HAL Engine division at BLR, and later MD of Nashik, with Shyamsundar, who went on to head Koraput.

They all did their best under the circumstances. As an Indian, I remember them with pride. Having worked in MNCs with fabulous training, logical budget assignments from my company, I realised the babudom they had to deal with. And yet, today, I thank them with the perseverance that has led to HAL as it is today. Faultlines and all.

And my thanks to you too for the same perseverance. You are in a position where you cannot talk about many things.

To fellow BRFites, who criticise HAL? The disease is common to all aspects of PSU governance, and it lies in the north. Not at the HQ of these PSUs.

If I had anything to do with governance, The Minister of Defence maybe a political appointee, BUT, the Ministers of State, would be three. One each, of retired tech persons from the Airforce, Army and Navy. And if necessary, they would be Rajya Sabha members in keeping with the constituition! and primary advisors to the CCS. Not the Minister!

Watch our two neighbours shiver with that!
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by vasu raya »

We see a lot of fan art and are also good at critiquing actual aircraft like AMCA, wonder if there is anybody out there who can visualize a stealthy airframe for Dhruv? on the lines of Silent Hawk

For one they would have to get rid of the rear clam shell doors and have a blending tail assembly similar to the current LCH
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

Raghu,

A few questions from me. Ofcourse, answer selectively based on what you should.

1. Does the bulbous join between the stub wings and the fuselage house anything. Or is it shaped like that for lesser interference drag.
2. Why is the stub wings on TD2 higher than that of TD1?
3. Congratulations on the refinements on the cowling. I was also noticing that the ALH Mk4 have a different grill in front of the intakes have been made (should I say) fit. Is this a drag reduction measure. If yes, will it be adopted LCH?
Image
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Singha »

what is there inside the passenger compartment? does it have usual seating or kept empty to save weight?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

I am pretty sure it is re-configurable.

Here's one config displayed (via Livefist)
Image
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Vipul »

India Airshow: Eurocopter offers to set up unit in India.

Eurocopter, a unit of European aerospace and defence consortium, EADS, has offered to set up a production line in India to make its Fennec helicopters if it wins an Indian defence contract.EADS is competing for a contract to sell 197 reconnaissance and surveillance helicopters to India under a defence contract.

"We will set up a production line in India," Eurocopter CEO Lutz Bertling said on the sidelines of the India Airshow in Bangalore today.Bertling said he did not expect the Indian government to cut budget allocation for ongoing defence programmes in the country.

''Eurocopter has made major investments in building up its product portfolio, which positions us to offer products that meet India's mission requirements in bolstering its defence capabilities,'' said Bertling.

''At the last Aero India event, we showcased the AS550 C3 Fennec, which was presented as the ideal replacement for India's aging Cheetah and Chetak fleet. This time, we are bringing the combat-proven AS565 MBe Panther with a complete set of armament, which is in service in many military forces around the world.''

Eurocopter is participating in the Aero India 2013 exhibition with an expanded helicopter product line that would meet a full range of India's military, governmental and civilian missions.
Bertling expects the government to decide on the cheapest bids in the first half of 2013. "So after further negotiations, the assembly line could come up in mid-2014."

Meanwhile, the company is reported to be already in talks with several local companies to set up the production line.

Eurocopter has a long-established presence in the country with licensed production of composite assemblies for AS550/AS350 helicopters at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for more than five decades.

Eurocopter previously won a contract to sell 197 helicopters to India, but the deal fell through in 2007.

Eurocopter inaugurated its new Indian subsidiary on 20 October 2010, to expand its market for both commercial and military helicopters.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by vivek_ahuja »

indranilroy wrote:I am pretty sure it is re-configurable.

Here's one config displayed (via Livefist)
Image
What is this stuff? Ammo crates or something?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by SagarAg »

vivek_ahuja wrote:
indranilroy wrote:I am pretty sure it is re-configurable.

Here's one config displayed (via Livefist)
Image
What is this stuff? Ammo crates or something?
Those are the boxes of documentation provided by HAL to run the chopper. :mrgreen: Just kidding. I am also corious to know what exactly is it. :-?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by vivek_ahuja »

SagarAg wrote:Those are the boxes of documentation provided by HAL to run the chopper. :mrgreen:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by SivaVijay »

^^^
Those are ammo boxes alright, they are yet to add the robotic arm to reload ammo midflight( ducks and runs for cover). :P
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Singha »

looks like ammo crates to me. good to know a ungodly amt of cannon rounds is readily available. the white rollers over which the belt runs is clearly visible in each drum.

ideal would be a underfloor feed system from right there to the cannon...infact that may already be the case here as I dont see any volume compartment near the gun for ammo
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/imag ... zinpODcZvn
http://taiwanairpower.org/army/oh58d/xm296.jpg

apache has a mag in one of its fat cheeks

mi28 carries external drums beside the cannon
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by wig »

Army gets its first indigenously-made Rudra attack chopper
BANGALORE:: The first ndigenously-developed weaponised helicopter 'Rudra' was today handed over to the Army which has successfully raised an attack chopper fleet on its own.

This is the first of the 60 armed helicopters provided to the Army by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) after the Defence Ministry handed over the control of all attack helicopters to the land force.

"This is a very important system for us as it will be the first platform (of choppers) which is weaponised. In any battle, fire (power) and manoeuvrability should be closely integrated to support ground operations and provide immediate help if and when required.

"This (Rudra) will help us to get that capability," Army Deputy Chief Lt Gen Narendra Singh told reporters here.

"The first squadron of the helicopters would be operationalised soon. We will have 60 choppers and one squadron will have 10 of them," Army Aviation Corps' Maj Gen P K Bharali told here.

He was talking on the sidelines of a function where HAL Chairman R K Tyagi officially handed over the chopper to the Army.

Bharali said a total of 60 Rudras would be inducted into the Army and the machines will be part of six squadrons.

The chopper is armed with air-to-air missiles such as the 'Mistral', rocket pods and heavy machine guns to help the ground forces with close air support. The Army is also planning to procure the under-development Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) being produced by the HAL.
http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/
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