Indian Naval Discussion

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 11 Sep 2011 21:13

Jay wrote:An US naval officers point of view...
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/k ... nboard_an/

What is it with us Indians, that we must look to some random white guy for approval?

Who says that this is a "US Naval Officers Point of View"?

The post was not on an official blog, or anything else of that sort. For all you know this guy is a Paki or a Chinaman. but by the sound of the post ("slave", and other such rubbish), it is much more likely just a disgruntled US tech employee. It is patently nonsense, and the guy sounds like he has never been on any ship, let alone an Indian Navy one.

But so much for the blatantly fraudulent sound of the post. More importantly, why is it that if a supposed US Navy "officer" has this to say, everyone gets their heads in a tizzy, and everything we know about the Indian Navy (that it is professional, well put together, and good at what it does), goes out the window, and panicked and worried posts appear on BR?

Frankly, just the other day, wikileaks revealed that the US leadership has a very high opinion of the Indian Navy (their internal memo, not them trying to make Raju Yindoo happy). Now will that throw this same crew which is panicking on reading some unidentified bulletin board go into raptures?

Pathetic case of insecurity.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 11 Sep 2011 21:22

And, after a few minutes of examination, the author of the post (So called US Navy "officer"), reveals this:

DDG - The hull code for the kind of ship I was on - an Arleigh Burke class guided missile destroyer.
SWO - Surface Warfare Officer - what I used to be.
IP - Information Professional - what I am now (basically network security/networking management).

How much does anyone wanna bet this is some angry nerd who got chucked out of a job, and is pretending to be a sailor.

Please, people. Can you stop believing everything you see on the internet? Please dont panic over unverified nonsense.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Sep 2011 21:27

Jay wrote:An US naval officers point of view...
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/k ... nboard_an/

Pure unadulterated bullshit.

Even an illiterate redneck from smalltown USA wouldn't talk like this.

It's offensive.

Navies are very careful about who they have on board and how they behave towards their guests and particularly what they let them see. The US Navy would never have sent such a hick moron to another Navy. This guy is certainly not an officer or even a naval rating / sailor.

The IN has specialized shoes for their engineering and flight deck crews. No body would ever have asked him to bring his own toilet paper. Every IN ship and shore establishment has and uses toilet paper in the officer's western style only toilets. The men have a choice because their toilets are Indian style.

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 11 Sep 2011 21:28

No one is panicking. I am just curious in the specific points that were mentioned. For example he mentioned that the ships were less than 50 feet apart and it was dangerous, is that really the case? Also I am curious, there are 2 boats, why is it the Indian ship's fault if the distance is less? Cant it be the other ship as well?

The other point was steel toed boots. How common are these on Indian ships? OR are they typical American over reaction to things?

See, there are things to pick up even from inane rants....

<Ah I see chetak has clarified on the shoes.. see, one more thing I learnt about IN>

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 11 Sep 2011 21:29

India Beefs Up for Great Game

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 11 Sep 2011 21:34

Tanaji wrote:No one is panicking. I am just curious in the specific points that were mentioned. For example he mentioned that the ships were less than 50 feet apart and it was dangerous, is that really the case? Also I am curious, there are 2 boats, why is it the Indian ship's fault if the distance is less? Cant it be the other ship as well?

The other point was steel toed boots. How common are these on Indian ships? OR are they typical American over reaction to things?

See, there are things to pick up even from inane rants....

<Ah I see chetak has clarified on the shoes.. see, one more thing I learnt about IN>

You know what unemployed IT nerds who have never been on a ship are good at? Role Playing Fantasy.

Honestly. This is some weirdo who has never seen a ship in his life, but may have wikipediaed a bit up, and is taking out his impotent nerd rage on the internet. There is no question of overreaction or underreaction. He has never seen an Indian ship in his life. "Sandals" on a flightdeck? For goodness sakes.

Chill out. Relax. And stop discussing this guys post, because it is pure, unadulterated, Bovine Faeces. It is a FRAUD!

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Sep 2011 21:40

ASPuar wrote:
Tanaji wrote:No one is panicking. I am just curious in the specific points that were mentioned. For example he mentioned that the ships were less than 50 feet apart and it was dangerous, is that really the case? Also I am curious, there are 2 boats, why is it the Indian ship's fault if the distance is less? Cant it be the other ship as well?

The other point was steel toed boots. How common are these on Indian ships? OR are they typical American over reaction to things?

See, there are things to pick up even from inane rants....

<Ah I see chetak has clarified on the shoes.. see, one more thing I learnt about IN>
You know what unemployed IT nerds who have never been on a ship are good at? Role Playing Fantasy.

Honestly. This is some weirdo who has never seen a ship in his life, but may have wikipediaed a bit up, and is taking out his impotent nerd rage on the internet. There is no question of overreaction or underreaction. He has never seen an Indian ship in his life. "Sandals" on a flightdeck? For goodness sakes.

Chill out. Relax. And stop discussing this guys post, because it is pure, unadulterated, Bovine Faeces. It is a FRAUD!

There are no sandals on the flight deck and NO CHATTER on the bridge EVER.

The IN is run very tightly and always by the book.

The only things he got right was the exceptionally good food and the easy slipping in and out between hindi and english for all ranks

negi · Post by **negi** » 11 Sep 2011 22:15

For someone from USN spending 5 days on a IN ship obviously will be a different cultural experience but this guy has described things in a very bad taste. IN ships are generally speaking more heavily manned as compared to any other western navy for a given ship size I guess one of the reasons is we have more men and hence can afford to have a heavy crew compliment. Rats used to be problem before they make their way into the ships via ration supplies, however I heard that things have improved now so not sure how big a problem it is today. Crew quarters have also improved anyone who has been on R class and say the new Talwar class will see the difference (Kolkata class I heard are even better). This guy is lucky for he was on INS Delhi had he been on any of the R class and in rough seas of Bay of Bengal he would have tasted the real coffee.

Jaspreet · Post by **Jaspreet** » 11 Sep 2011 22:50

In that thread there are quite a few nasty things being said about IN in particular and Indians in general.
I don't know much about IN, but those who do should go there and post corrections. No point preaching to the choir here.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 11 Sep 2011 23:50

Utter nonsense

When a sailor knows he is moving via RIB, he is extra cautious about his belongings. Especially keeping uniforms dry.

The sandal and WC part is BS. Also, there are barbers and mess staff, but not slaves nor water drum. There are water tanks.

And when a ship is on 30 day deployment and 10th day RO plant breaks down, then no one ditches the operation and goes home because of water shortage.

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 12 Sep 2011 01:58

Pratyush wrote:^^^
Just a poor response to culture shock, nothing more.

On the internet, nobody knows you are a dog http://www.unc.edu/depts/jomc/academics/dri/idog.html

Trailer trash pakis (Lodi, CA or Fairfax VA) who also pretend to be chinese (if you please) on BRF, are also suspect.

Who do you think writes all those "Why are we giving aid to India" comments in UK sites? They are piskopaths

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 12 Sep 2011 02:09

Jay wrote:An US naval officers point of view...
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/k ... nboard_an/

i read through all the 800 comments and wow this asshole is a piece of work

an american naval officer graduating from one of the top military schools gets his backup clothes, cellphone , camera and other essentials washed up in sea water across a 50 meter transport between 2 ships and he has the galls to tell that the Indian naval personal are incompetent.

His first foray across two ships and he has already f8cked up his stuff and made them all unusable. Then he cribs about how clueless the Indian are. Mr silly american , you are the clueless fool. even a dumb 'slave' would have double wrapped his stuff when he was moving between 2 ships..

I think the whole washed up story is just to ensure that when people ask for proof, he can always say that his camera was corroded with sea water and so he cannot prove what he is making up.

Rangudu · Post by **Rangudu** » 12 Sep 2011 07:40

What website is this? It seems strange that some guy would go out of the way to post about his "experiences" in a foreign navy vessel yet have no photos or even simpler evidence to show that he was even there. It's almost as if someone took all the negative stereotypes of Indians and made a naval khichdi out of it - dirty, caste system, jugaad attitude etc.

partha · Post by **partha** » 12 Sep 2011 10:27

Strange. That guy has deleted all the -ve comments he made about IN.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 12 Sep 2011 10:37

Guys, stop it.

Its a fraudulent post, by someone who has NEVER been on an IN ship.

It is not necessary to rush to each and every false and defamatory post and weep at what has been written.ng abo

Stop worrying about the behaviour of "US Navy officers". This guy is NOT one.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 12 Sep 2011 13:15

I had a quick look at the comments. Not deserving of our time.

I have no idea what the chap's agenda is but Delhi and other IN ship's are run professionally.

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 12 Sep 2011 13:29

Mazagon Dock Ltd, Ministry of Defence, Government of India ('MDL') has selected Pipavav Shipyard as its joint venture partner for building warships for the Indian Navy

Does this have any bearing to the news we heard a few days ago?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 12 Sep 2011 13:31

akimalik wrote:Mazagon Dock Ltd, Ministry of Defence, Government of India ('MDL') has selected Pipavav Shipyard as its joint venture partner for building warships for the Indian Navy

Does this have any bearing to the news we heard a few days ago?

What news?

akimalik · Post by **akimalik** » 12 Sep 2011 13:33

akimalik wrote:What news?

This news...

VinodTK wrote:Amphibious vessels to strengthen Navy

sum · Post by **sum** » 12 Sep 2011 13:34

Had heard from chaiwallah about such a thing few days back before news reports..IIRC, both are related.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 12 Sep 2011 17:24

INS Viraat leaves Kochi after refit

Eric Leiderman · Post by **Eric Leiderman** » 12 Sep 2011 23:58

The blog on " A US Naval officers point of view."
There are a couple of points that need to be highlighted the general impression one gets is pettiness, meanness, and we are better than u syndrome.
About him not drinking the water on board because of the condition of the reverse osmosis plant. Unless he is privy to the frequency of the planned maintanence of the plant and is around during some of the maintanence operations. (which seems unlikely) there is no way to he can jump to the conclusions he is reaching.
The rats on board is a possibility, I have worked on Indian flagged merhant ships and we have had rodent infestations.
(Never been aboard a IN ship though so the above statement should not be given much credence)
The coveralls he is accurate on that one as many Indian Mariners tend to use synthetic blends of fabric for their coveralls(boilersuits)
that is a safety issue.
However the tone of commentary shows a bias against him being there, Possibly he did not volunteer the assignement and was ordered to be there. Hence the mindset. Thats me jumping to conclusions again.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Sep 2011 01:35

Indigenous submarine escape suit by Diwali

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 13 Sep 2011 09:06

There is a news item in the printed version of Economic Times that Goldman Sachs is negotiating for a 18% stake in the holding company of Pipavav Shipyard.

If the JV with Mazgaon Dock is in place, GOI must insist that no stake in Pipavav should be sold to any foreign companies/investors.

With the way things are moving, I wouldn't be surprised if someone from Govarmand itself had nudged Goldman to seek a stakee..or worse, the JV deal came through subject to stake sale to Goldman (after behind the back arm twisting!).

I may sound a bit paranoid, but I just got curious about this stake sale, when read in conjunction with another news that mentioned the JV included construction of submarines....God only knows.

nash · Post by **nash** » 13 Sep 2011 12:55

http://www.thehindu.com/business/article2447626.ece

he said the Pipavav shipyard “is licensed to make five warships a year but we can enhance that to two dozens in the coming years as our yard is modular.

The MDL orders can keep us busy for the next 10-15 years but we are also looking outside. This is because a lot of futuristic ships can be made at Pipavav but cannot be done at MDL facilities,

Mazagon Dock and now Pipavav have the capability. We have a larger infrastructure than all the Indian shipyards put together. We can also export warships to friendly countries

Apart from LCU, i think a portion of P15B,P17A and II line of submarine will go to Pipavav's way. And propbably IMO export of P28A-B ships to country like vietnam.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 13 Sep 2011 18:13

looking at their website, they can probably drydock work on 4 LPD in parallel, or 2 LPD & 2 DDG in parallel.
http://www.pipavavshipyard.com/drydocks.html
and assemble hull sections offline
http://www.pipavavshipyard.com/workshops.html

L&T has current facility to build 3x150m ships in parallel at hazira and plans to extend that to 8 ships but ship size and draft is limited by the location. details on their new shipyard in TN is here http://www.tnpcb.gov.in/pdf/Executive%2 ... 20Port.pdf

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 13 Sep 2011 20:21

The man behind Pipavav: Nikhil Gandhi.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Sep 2011 09:17

can someone tell me what would be the height of a P15A ship from top of mainmast to the keel?

I was mentally trying to picture it next to a apartment building - having never visited naval docks.

also do commercial and naval ships use some rat guard thing on mooring ropes that I read about in a book? its a kind of slippery ring on the rope that rats cannot climb over. how are the gangways protected - does it have a grill floor with bigger than rat sized holes ? or do they keep a cat on the payroll ?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 14 Sep 2011 09:58

^^^

WRT Rats, I recall during an early 90s visit to the Vikrant, the crew was on an expedition to hunt rats. IIRC, the exercise was an all hands on deck affair.

negi · Post by **negi** » 14 Sep 2011 10:02

Approximately as tall as a 5 storey building (at most) . I have not seen any rings on mooring ropes in dockyards at Cochin, Goa or even Mumbai. I guess rats infiltrate via ration supplies .

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 14 Sep 2011 11:04

Eric Leiderman wrote:The rats on board is a possibility, I have worked on Indian flagged merhant ships and we have had rodent infestations.

Yes, there are rats, but ships are religiously fumigated.

Eric Leiderman wrote:The coveralls he is accurate on that one as many Indian Mariners tend to use synthetic blends of fabric for their coveralls(boilersuits)

Civvies, maybe. IN standard issue is white cotton that does have some degree of fire resistance. From what I understand, cotton doesnt stick to the skin. Also use cotton flash masks to protect their faces.

Here are examples of superb USN seamanship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_USS_P ... _grounding and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne% ... _collision

British seamanship http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... dents.html and state of equipment http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11977871

Australian seamanship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne% ... _collision

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 14 Sep 2011 11:48

Under no circumstances must any pvt. Indian shipyard that is building warships and subs for the IN have part of its stake in foreign hands.The entire security of the warships and their secret,classified capabilities will be in question.Britain many years ago stole German warship designs for the Russian navy forseeing WW1 and which were of great help in the Battle of Jutland.Furthermore,with their stake as the thin end of the wedge,they will use every means to lobby for their nation's wares to be built in India under licence.

It also allows them to steal data from the yard and pass them on to India's enemies.Vital info. such as armour plating,sensors and related eqpt. -in fact the entire drawings of the vessels can be compromised and stolen! Thi would be catastrophic during any war with pak,China,or even a spat with a western naval power.

PS:PPV/MDL JV report quote:

''The PDOL board unanimously approved setting up of the joint venture company with Mazagon Dock to be named as Mazagon Dock Pipavav Ltd,'' Gandhi said. Apart from carrying out work for the navy, the JV will also look at export orders from ''friendly countries'', Gandhi said.

The Pipavav yards have the capacity to build a dozen submarines and warships at a given time due to their modular configuration.

Modalities of the joint venture, such as equity participation by partners, the nature of the work to be undertaken, the quantum of work to be allotted to Pipavav, etc, were not disclosed as officials said work on many issues was still in progress.

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 14 Sep 2011 14:12

also do commercial and naval ships use some rat guard thing on mooring ropes that I read about in a book? its a kind of slippery ring on the rope that rats cannot climb over. how are the gangways protected - does it have a grill floor with bigger than rat sized holes ? or do they keep a cat on the payroll

I don't understand what is the hue and cry about rats..As is the case elsewhere, you will find rats in ALL ships - Merchant as well as warships. If someone says their ship is rat free, it just means that the ship is fumigated quite recently.

Rope guard is nothing but a metal disc (of about 2 mm thick and about 18 inches dia) with a hole in the centre to pass the rope through. It works on the simple principle that when a rat tries to cross the rope guard, it has to climb the rope guard perpendicular to the rope. In that process it loses grip on the smooth surface of the rope guard and falls in to the water. But this is not 100% fool proof and the smart ones still reach the ship.

As long as there is food available onboard, rats will reach the ships and stay there. Rat Traps, Rat Poison, Fumigation etc are some techniques used to kill them as we do elsewhere.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 14 Sep 2011 18:27

In that process it loses grip on the smooth surface of the rope guard and falls in to the water. But this is not 100% fool proof and the smart ones still reach the ship.

Well, one thing is for sure, the SDRE rats are smarter than the TFTA rats.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 14 Sep 2011 18:33

tsarkar wrote: Here are examples of superb USN seamanship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_USS_P ... _grounding and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne% ... _collision

British seamanship http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... dents.html and state of equipment http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11977871

Australian seamanship http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne% ... _collision

A GOOD ONE BUDDY A REAL GOOD ONE

What is the ULTIMATE in warfare ? The best navy on earth i.e. US Navy

With the best AA warfare suite i.e. Aegis (at least according to the US Navy)
With the best ship-to-air missiles i.e. Standard SM 2
With the best training, exercises, simulations, practise, "seamanship"

Shoots down a huge Airbus A 3XX mistaking it for F 14 (the best shipborne fighter aircraft) !! I suppose the USN "may" be knowing what a F 14 "looks like on the radar"

K

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 14 Sep 2011 18:39

Jay wrote:An US naval officers point of view...
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/k ... nboard_an/

I hope that the Canadian Armed Forces invite this "gentleman" on a submerged tour of the 'Oberon' class submarine they have purchased from UK. I look forward to the report

K

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 14 Sep 2011 18:43

Philip wrote:Under no circumstances must any pvt. Indian shipyard that is building warships and subs for the IN have part of its stake in foreign hands.The entire security of the warships and their secret,classified capabilities will be in question.Britain many years ago stole German warship designs for the Russian navy forseeing WW1 and which were of great help in the Battle of Jutland.Furthermore,with their stake as the thin end of the wedge,they will use every means to lobby for their nation's wares to be built in India under licence.

It also allows them to steal data from the yard and pass them on to India's enemies.Vital info. such as armour plating,sensors and related eqpt. -in fact the entire drawings of the vessels can be compromised and stolen! Thi would be catastrophic during any war with pak,China,or even a spat with a western naval power.

PS:PPV/MDL JV report quote:

''The PDOL board unanimously approved setting up of the joint venture company with Mazagon Dock to be named as Mazagon Dock Pipavav Ltd,'' Gandhi said. Apart from carrying out work for the navy, the JV will also look at export orders from ''friendly countries'', Gandhi said.

The Pipavav yards have the capacity to build a dozen submarines and warships at a given time due to their modular configuration.

Modalities of the joint venture, such as equity participation by partners, the nature of the work to be undertaken, the quantum of work to be allotted to Pipavav, etc, were not disclosed as officials said work on many issues was still in progress.

True but I there is one more point of view, mine if you don't mind

I would not be surprised if a worker/supervisor/manager/damager would sell drawings / other details for monetary gains. My opinion about any babu is very low, he would sell his mother and soul or both if the money is right.

K

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 14 Sep 2011 18:58

The thing is I am finding Pvt Sector units being more cautious than the DPSU's. One of the SME supplier I know told me one fact. The DPSU's are willing to outsource. Where as, the pvt sector defence units are desperately trying not to outsource and are creating capacities within their units for everything.

Added later....

I might not be 100% right.

BENNY · Post by **BENNY** » 14 Sep 2011 19:09

Rolls-Royce wins contract from Cochin Shipyard to supply water jets for the Indian Coast Guard

Wednesday, 14 September 2011
Rolls-Royce, the global power systems company, has won a contract from India’s Cochin Shipyard to supply 60 water jets for a new fleet of 20 Fast Patrol Vessels for the Indian Coast Guard.

The contract will involve the supply of Rolls-Royce Kamewa 71S3np water jets (three per vessel), and associated equipment including a joystick control system which will enhance the manoeuvring capabilities of the vessels.

The 50 metre long vessels, which are currently under construction, will reach speeds of 33 knots and will operate in Indian coastal waters and around island territories.

Their roles will include coastal patrolling, anti-smuggling missions, fisheries protection, as well as search and rescue duties.

Water jets enable operation in shallow waters and offer higher speeds and better manoeuvrability than conventional propellers.

Anoop. A. · Post by **Anoop. A.** » 14 Sep 2011 21:56

Indian Navy's first P-8I aircraft picture is listed in BRF top stories

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=15309
or
http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image156109.html

Interesting observation (pardon me if i am wrong) is that the aircraft have slots and markings in the forward fuselage (right above the cockpit) that is the standard for Flying boom type aerial refuelling (KC 135).....while Indian Air Force currently operates only Probe-and-Drogue system (IL 78 MKI).