Indian Naval Discussion

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 25 Mar 2011 13:34

Rakesh wrote:Washing machines are installed aboard US Navy nuclear submarines. Then again, they are much bigger than our Kilos and Shishumar Class boats and got nuclear power to generate all the electricity they need.

Even on US subs, washing and showers are way lower priority down the list because fresh water is a limited resource (even on subs that distill their own fresh water). My info comes from an ex-colleague who served aboard two USN subs (one as a plank holder). He said that the smell of a sub is very distinctive and gets on all your clothes, so even after you leave the sub, your clothes smell like the sub for a few washings.

My colleague went on to say that wise submariners would pack something like 2 weeks worth of undies and t-shirts, because even though laundry day was once a week, the washing machine would have problems half the time and so you always wanted to have extra sets of undies to tide you over to the next week. Showers were also very short and to the point and only normally happened once or twice a week: Quick burst to moisten the skin, then water turned off and plenty of soap applied to build up lather, then another quick burst to rinse some of it off (rest you wipe off) and you're done. Also good time to wash some undies at same time if you didn't get to do laundry on laundry day.

My colleague was a little luckier than most because he was the cook and by virtue of his post, got a bit of an extra allowance for fresh water for showering, more than officers or enlisteds.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Mar 2011 14:52

^^ Great Video ,Salute to the submariners

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 25 Mar 2011 14:59

I wish Rocky and Mayur would tone down the forced humour.

Granted that this series is to be aired on NDTV Good Times, but that forced humour and in the presence of Servicemen looks a little silly. The servicemen all seem to have a look on their faces that says -
1. These two guys are loony
2. Oh the things I'll do to guys like these should they ever come under my command.

LOL

I hope people would make a no nonsense, serious documentary on the defence forces, the wars, with plenty of details about the small operations that were conducted. In spite of what all we know about the armed forces and the equipment, as ametuers, I am sure there is a huge lot of anecdotes and information that only a service personnel knows. I wish people would bring that out.

For example something as simple as power washing an Anchor and its Chain as it is hoisted from the water, applying anti rust paint on it...

But still, a very good effort by Mayur and Rocky.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Mar 2011 18:24

both have gained weight heavily in the course of highway on my plate. who wouldnt I guess? esp mayur.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Mar 2011 18:41

Granted that this series is to be aired on NDTV Good Times, but that forced humour and in the presence of Servicemen looks a little silly. The servicemen all seem to have a look on their faces that says -
1. These two guys are loony
2. Oh the things I'll do to guys like these should they ever come under my command.

Maybe OT but Gagan-saar:

I can bet that nearly 80% of the junta who are watching this show would stop watching if not for the humour...hence, better to have the "forced humour" and getting more defence-ignorant junta to know all about the forces than otherwise... Also, lot of the defence folk in the various episodes seem to recognize these guys and appreciate the work they are doing.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 25 Mar 2011 21:06

I hope people would make a no nonsense, serious documentary on the defence forces, the wars, with plenty of details about the small operations that were conducted. In spite of what all we know about the armed forces and the equipment, as ametuers, I am sure there is a huge lot of anecdotes and information that only a service personnel knows. I wish people would bring that out

Gagan ji if they do what you are asking for, then it will end up being Swades. Few hundred Rakshaks and the families of the defence personnel will be the audience, aam janta are not great fans of that type of content. It might be called a "newsreel" too. I think it is okie what these guys are doing, they can of course, never stand up to Rakshak demands but message to aam aadmi is more important.

Imagining work in those battery pits sends shivers down my spine, i mean there could be hydrogen gas in that chamber and one spark is good enough. Why cant they rearchitect the battery pit to make it a little easier

Btw crews running the nuclear subs need to be made of harder material, they might have to stay submerged for longer, mere thought of being submerged in the dark in those confined environs is sure to cause nightmares ?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Mar 2011 22:24

ArmenT wrote:My colleague was a little luckier than most because he was the cook and by virtue of his post, got a bit of an extra allowance for fresh water for showering, more than officers or enlisteds.

Cooks got the best life in the military. All the perks without all the push-ups.

Rupesh · Post by **Rupesh** » 25 Mar 2011 22:35

^^^
Saar but they also have to wake up early.. IIRC something like 4.00 AM

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 25 Mar 2011 22:37

^^^
Always ready to wake up for food

Anoop. A. · Post by **Anoop. A.** » 26 Mar 2011 01:55

suryag wrote: mere thought of being submerged in the dark in those confined environs is sure to cause nightmares ?

i cant think of sitting in the dark at home for more than 3 hours during a power outage......................the feeling is not fear, but the insecurity of not getting to enjoy what a civilian believes to be the mordern human rights like electricity, mobile service, internet......

another story similar to the life in submarine arms, posted in the BR news section.http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=14540

respect to the service personel......not just submarine services, but to those in the siachen, bsf guarding border posts inside jungles....all whose give up their rights and comforts so they can protect and preserve 1 billion others.

GeorgeWelch · Post by **GeorgeWelch** » 26 Mar 2011 10:00

Rakesh wrote:Cooks got the best life in the military. All the perks without all the push-ups.

They also get to save the day when the ship is 'Under Siege'.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 26 Mar 2011 10:56

There's a good bit of insights on submariners' lives in the "stories" section of this website maintained with help of ex-submariners ...http://indiansubmariner.com

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 26 Mar 2011 12:07

Gagan wrote:I wish Rocky and Mayur would tone down the forced humour.

Granted that this series is to be aired on NDTV Good Times, but that forced humour and in the presence of Servicemen looks a little silly. The servicemen all seem to have a look on their faces that says -
1. These two guys are loony
2. Oh the things I'll do to guys like these should they ever come under my command.

LOL

I hope people would make a no nonsense, serious documentary on the defence forces, the wars, with plenty of details about the small operations that were conducted. In spite of what all we know about the armed forces and the equipment, as ametuers, I am sure there is a huge lot of anecdotes and information that only a service personnel knows. I wish people would bring that out.

For example something as simple as power washing an Anchor and its Chain as it is hoisted from the water, applying anti rust paint on it...

But still, a very good effort by Mayur and Rocky.

at-least some channel is spending their production budget on this... in the land of bollywood and India TV ...thats a lot to ask for

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 26 Mar 2011 13:06

Rakesh wrote:
ArmenT wrote:My colleague was a little luckier than most because he was the cook and by virtue of his post, got a bit of an extra allowance for fresh water for showering, more than officers or enlisteds.
Cooks got the best life in the military. All the perks without all the push-ups.

True, but submarine crew are a special breed of people, because a cook who becomes submarine qualified has to learn a lot more about other stuff than a cook in any other branch of the military. Dunno if things are different in Indian navy, but I don't imagine it is any different than USN submariners.

Since subs are cramped environments with limited # of personnel, everyone must know the basics of everyone else's jobs. Therefore, my colleague, while officially a cook, also learned how to use fire-fighting equipment, alarm systems, basics of operating the reactor, arming the torpedoes, sonar, navigation equipment, hydraulics, electrical and mechanical maintenance etc. and he had to take tests for all of the systems all before he earned his dolphins. There are no exceptions to this rule and every potential submariner from officer to enlisted must show proficiency in practically all the systems on the sub before they earn their submarine qualification dolphins.

My colleague said he was also the best barber on the boat as well and therefore, was very highly esteemed for his hair cutting skills.

aniket · Post by **aniket** » 27 Mar 2011 22:17

The vessel retains commando transport capability, for around 750 troops and carries four LCVP landing craft aft.

From BR page on INS Viraat.
What is the current status of this and has it been used in an exercise along the INS Jalashwa ?
This can be put to great use.(If not already)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Mar 2011 22:24

ArmenT wrote:Since subs are cramped environments with limited # of personnel, everyone must know the basics of everyone else's jobs. Therefore, my colleague, while officially a cook, also learned how to use fire-fighting equipment, alarm systems, basics of operating the reactor, arming the torpedoes, sonar, navigation equipment, hydraulics, electrical and mechanical maintenance etc. and he had to take tests for all of the systems all before he earned his dolphins.

WoW , thats just too much to earn ones dolphin

Is this an exception or its a rule , i would assume sonar navigaton , basic reactor operation would be a specialized skill and unless he keeps on training on these wide rage of skills he would just loose it , tough job.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 27 Mar 2011 23:09

It is a rule and everyone from officer to enlisted must go through it and it takes a while to finish. My colleague said that earning the dolphins pin was considered a major event in their lives and only the first step, because training still happened continually even after that, to make sure people didn't forget stuff they'd learned. By the way, my colleague also said that in most cases, you only had to learn the basics of the various systems, except for firefighting, alarms and emergency systems stuff, where everyone was required to learn every last detail of those. And even after he got his dolphins, the training continued in more detail. When he transferred over to his second sub, he had to re-qualify again because locations and models of some equipment were different in the new sub.

This link has more details of the process.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 28 Mar 2011 21:13

Two coast guard ships commissioned.

Indian Coast Guard Ships C-150 and C-151 were commissioned by Vice Admiral Anil Chopra, Director General Coast Guard in Kochi today.The two ships are the 8th and 9th of the 11 Interceptor Boat (IB) class, designed and built indigenously by M/s ABG Shipyard, Surat.

They are fitted with ultra modern navigational and communication equipment, and will be deployed for enhancing the close coast surveillance capability of Indian Coast Guard.

The 28 metre ships displace 90 tons each, and have an endurance of 500 nautical miles with an economical speed of 25 knots.
They can achieve a maximum speed of 45 knots for responding to urgent calls at sea, and are equipped with advanced navigational and communication equipment. In addition to small arms, the IBs are fitted with 12.7 mm 'Prahari' Heavy Machine Gun (HMG).

C-150 and C-151 are commanded by Commandant Ashok Kumar and Commandant RK Sinha, and will be based at Vizhinjam and Kakinada respectively.The commissioning ceremony was attended by Inspector General SPS Basra, Commander Coast Guard Region (West), senior officers from the Navy and Central and State Governments. (ANI)

Rony · Post by **Rony** » 28 Mar 2011 21:45

Indian Navy grows stronger

The Indian Navy was originally established and developed according to the British model. During the 1960s, India started purchasing combat vessels and navy armaments from the Soviet Union, gaining access to what was then cutting-edge military technology. Many of the vessels India is building itself have been designed with Russian input and are fitted with Russian-made equipment and armaments.

According to Ruslan Pukhov, the director of prominent Russian think tank AST, it was only thanks to Russia that India has been able to gain access to unique technologies and opportunities such as building nuclear submarines and supersonic anti-ship missiles. Mr Pukhov believes that no other country would have granted India anything similar.

The high point of its cooperation with Moscow was India’s lease in January of 1988 of a Soviet nuclear submarine code-named Project 670 (to be more exact, of its “export” version, Project 06709). The submarine, renamed Chakra, was armed with the powerful Ametist anti-ship missiles. Although the submarine had to be returned to the USSR for political reasons just three years later, its operation has given Indian Navy commanders a first-hand idea of the important combat role nuclear submarines get to play. It has been reported that India is carrying out, with assistance from Russian experts, a programme to create a nuclear submarine fleet of its own.

A $1 billion contract was signed in 1997 for the building in Russia of three frigates custom-designed for India, code-named Project 11356. Remarkably, Russia was exporting more advanced vessels than it was building for its own navy. Three Talwar-type frigates were built by Baltiysky Zavod in St Petersburg and delivered to the Indian Navy in 2003–2004. According to Moscow Defense Brief Editor Mikhail Barabanov, the expert community has recognised those frigates as some of the world’s most advanced and powerful in their class. In 2006, India signed yet another contract for $1.56 billion to build three more modified 11356М frigates to be delivered in 2011–2012. These vessels will be equipped, among other things, with the BrahMos missile complex. A future Indian order for three more 11356М vessels has not been ruled out.

The history of cooperation with India on nuclear submarines, begun with the Chakra lease, lived on with a 2000 agreement for a long-term lease of the K-152 Nerpa third-generation multi-purpose nuclear submarine (order 518, developed by SPMBM Malakhit). At the time the agreement was being signed, the Nerpa was 86.5% technically ready. It was envisaged that a second submarine of the same type, built by the same company (order 519, around 60% ready), would be completed and leased to India subsequently. The final contract was signed in 2005. The total value of the agreement with India for the completion and lease of the two nuclear submarines is estimated at $1.8 billion, including $650m for the Nerpa contract.

The Nerpa has been undergoing running tests since 2008, and is expected to be delivered to the Indian side in the spring of 2011. It will get the same name, Chakra, once commissioned by the Indian Navy. This year will likely see the completion of the second submarine for India be resumed.
Russia is assisting India in its ATV programme to design and build its own nuclear submarine. The first Indian nuclear submarine, the Arihant, was launched in 2009, and India’s Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at the time directly thanked “the Russian friends” for their assistance. The submarine is now undergoing completion and testing.

Experts firmly believe that there is a huge potential for the development and deepening of bilateral naval cooperation in many areas. For example, Russia is taking part in the Indian Navy’s tender for the building of seven new-generation Project 17A frigates (one vessel is supposed to be built at a foreign shipyard, with the remaining six to be built by Indian companies under license.) Russia has offered six Project 677 (Amur-1650) diesel-powered submarines armed with the BrahMos missile complex for the new Indian tender (to be build under license in India). It looks like joint Russian-Indian navy-related projects will also gain momentum.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Mar 2011 09:10

The history of cooperation with India on nuclear submarines, begun with the Chakra lease, lived on with a 2000 agreement for a long-term lease of the K-152 Nerpa third-generation multi-purpose nuclear submarine (order 518, developed by SPMBM Malakhit). At the time the agreement was being signed, the Nerpa was 86.5% technically ready. It was envisaged that a second submarine of the same type, built by the same company (order 519, around 60% ready), would be completed and leased to India subsequently. The final contract was signed in 2005. The total value of the agreement with India for the completion and lease of the two nuclear submarines is estimated at $1.8 billion, including $650m for the Nerpa contract.

Two SSNs are to be leased to the IN!!!!

So, we will have 2 SSN( Russian) + 1 SSBN ( Arihant) by 2015?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Mar 2011 09:22

there are two incomplete Oscar-2 SSGNs lying in drydock for a long time now (we have seen photos). given their huge granit inclined tubes, these could also launch K-15 or Brahmos quite easily methinks. but getting them complete and operational would be a mammoth task because their supply chain would have gone away.

vishnu.nv · Post by **vishnu.nv** » 29 Mar 2011 09:44

Have this been posted earlier?

Indian Navy picks Korean Kangnam’s mine hunters

The Indian Navy has decided on its choice for a Mine Counter Measures Vessel [MCMV]. The navy and the defense ministry have identified South Korea’s Kangnam Corporation as the L1 vendor [lowest bidding and technically qualified] for the procurement of eight such vessels. Italy’s Intermarine, which was also part of the technically qualified shortlist, was beaten by Kangnam on price when the commercial bids were opened.

While the Contract Negotiation Committee [CNC] still has to conclude a final agreement on the price with the vendor, it is expected to be in the region of USD 670 million [INR 3000 Crore].

Two MCMVs will be built in South Korea, while the remaining six will be built by Goa Shipyard Limited [GSL] under Licensed Production by Transfer of Technology.

MCMVs are warships that combine the roles of mine sweepers and mine hunters and in terms of capability, lie somewhere in between these two types of vessels.

The US had offered India two of its decommissioned Osprey-class mine hunters last year, after India expressed interest in April, 2005. But there has not yet been any movement on this and it is open to question whether India retains any interest in the Ospreys, especially after the Korean order.

Kangnam Corporation will have to deliver the first two MCMVs by 2016, after which, user trials and acceptance will take place. GSL is to complete delivery of the license-produced six by 2018.

http://www.stratpost.com/indian-navy-pi ... ne-hunters

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Mar 2011 12:47

^^^ Not sure how reliable Stratpost is but any MCMV selection would be welcome.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Mar 2011 13:10

welcome news. they seem to be in no hurry given the 2016 induction.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Mar 2011 13:43

sum wrote: Two SSNs are to be leased to the IN!!!!

So, we will have 2 SSN( Russian) + 1 SSBN ( Arihant) by 2015?

Let the first one join on the schedule mentioned in the article. Without adding yet another 6 months delay in the first boat. Then we can think in terms of the the second boat.

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Mar 2011 13:53

Yup...thats why i mentioned 2015.
Am assuming that current Nerpa will join by end 2012 ( after 3 more six-month delays due to interior decorations, toilet roll refurbishing etc

)

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 29 Mar 2011 14:35

Im not a common visitor on the Navy forum, but isnt Arihant more of an SSGN?

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 29 Mar 2011 16:11

Auxiliary Vessel Pamba joins Indian Navy Southern Command

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 30 Mar 2011 10:24

NSTL to launch SMB project for Indian Navy on April 1

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 30 Mar 2011 11:54

ASPuar wrote:Im not a common visitor on the Navy forum, but isnt Arihant more of an SSGN?

SSGN is a cruise missile carrying nuclear submersible ship. It is basically a yankiee designation. Yankiees are very big on building ships and planes for specific purposes. For example F-15/F-22 were predominantly air-superiority fighters, while F-16/F-35 were predominantly ground attack or ground support aircraft. Ditto for their nuclear submarines.

These designations cannot be directly associated with Indian weapon platforms, as Indian naval and air force tend to favor multi-role weapon systems.

It was rumored that US SSGN were capable of launching Unmanned vehicles. I wonder if our arihant would have this capability. And if not, do any of the future ATVs have this planned capability. It would be interesting if Nishant/Lakshya/Rustom could be launched from our submarines. Although it remains to be seen whether our submarines could control these UAVs while remaining submerged.

It would be even more interesting if our ATVs could be mated to the AURA project in the future.

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 31 Mar 2011 12:10

Indian Marine Forces to provide layered security for the ICC World Cup 2011 finals in Mumbai

karan_mc · Post by **karan_mc** » 31 Mar 2011 12:19

Indian navy eyes more Israeli UAVs

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 31 Mar 2011 13:04

vishnu.nv wrote:Indian Navy picks Korean Kangnam’s mine hunters

Good design, 25 years old but used by US, still being built for Finland...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerici_class_minehunter

However, an inflexible export policy and demands by Intermarine that all ships be built in Italy are believed to have prevented wider sales...The six Swallow class ships of the Republic of Korea Navy are an unlicensed derivative of the Lerici class. Constructed by the Kangnam Shipbuilding Corporation

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 31 Mar 2011 19:01

Boeing Gets India OK For Four More P-8I Maritime Planes
Wall Street Journal

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 31 Mar 2011 19:22

tsarkar wrote:Good design, 25 years old but used by US, still being built for Finland...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lerici_class_minehunter

Thanks Sarkar....I was looking for pictures of these vessels. Apparently we are getting two ex-USN ships (MHC-56 Kingfisher & MHC-57 Cormorant) which are a derivative of the Lerici Class minehunter. See the link below;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osprey_cla ... minehunter

It was reported on 29 September, 2010 in Indian Media that the US Senate has approved the sale of MHC-56 Kingfisher & MHC-57 Cormorant to the Indian Navy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Kingfisher_(MHC-56)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Cormorant_(MHC-57)

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Apr 2011 10:53

Indian Navy officer sacked for having affair with Russian

A senior officer in the Indian Navy has been sacked for having sexual relations with a Russian woman in Moscow while on assignment in the country, the Times of India said on Friday.

Commodore Sukhjinder Singh was posted in Moscow between 2005 and 2007 to oversee the refit of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier under a major bilateral contract.

Explicit photographs of Singh and his Russian lover surfaced in April 2010, shortly after India agreed to pay $2.33 billion for the 44,570-ton carrier following lengthy discussions.

Singh admitted to having relations with the woman but maintained that his "loose moral conduct" had not "adversely impacted" India's position in discussion with Russia over the refit of the ship.

The Defense Ministry announced it was discharging Singh for "conduct unbecoming of an officer." He will also lose his pension and other benefits.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 01 Apr 2011 11:08

Austin wrote:Indian Navy officer sacked for having affair with Russian

A senior officer in the Indian Navy has been sacked for having sexual relations with a Russian woman in Moscow while on assignment in the country, the Times of India said on Friday.

Commodore Sukhjinder Singh was posted in Moscow between 2005 and 2007 to oversee the refit of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier under a major bilateral contract.

Explicit photographs of Singh and his Russian lover surfaced in April 2010, shortly after India agreed to pay $2.33 billion for the 44,570-ton carrier following lengthy discussions.

Singh admitted to having relations with the woman but maintained that his "loose moral conduct" had not "adversely impacted" India's position in discussion with Russia over the refit of the ship.

The Defense Ministry announced it was discharging Singh for "conduct unbecoming of an officer." He will also lose his pension and other benefits.

Seriously, this dude should have heard of the golden rule called NOT GETTING CAUGHT!

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 01 Apr 2011 11:09

Boeing Executive: Received India Order For Four More P-8I Maritime Planes

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 01 Apr 2011 11:25

Austin wrote:Indian Navy officer sacked for having affair with Russian

A senior officer in the Indian Navy has been sacked for having sexual relations with a Russian woman in Moscow while on assignment in the country, the Times of India said on Friday.

Commodore Sukhjinder Singh was posted in Moscow between 2005 and 2007 to oversee the refit of the Admiral Gorshkov aircraft carrier under a major bilateral contract.

Explicit photographs of Singh and his Russian lover surfaced in April 2010, shortly after India agreed to pay $2.33 billion for the 44,570-ton carrier following lengthy discussions.

Singh admitted to having relations with the woman but maintained that his "loose moral conduct" had not "adversely impacted" India's position in discussion with Russia over the refit of the ship.

The Defense Ministry announced it was discharging Singh for "conduct unbecoming of an officer." He will also lose his pension and other benefits.

I really don't get it. This is a very personal matter. Even I know one army office who had such relationship (although both were Indian).

If this lady in question was anyway compromising his duties (espionage/honey trap) then he should be convicted.

Otherwise it's none of government's business to poke their nose in someone's bedroom.

venku_Raj · Post by **venku_Raj** » 01 Apr 2011 11:29

Replica of INS Shivalik to be placed in Bhopal