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 Post subject: Military FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2010 19:39 
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BR FAQ Index


FAQ Section 1 : Small Arms
1.1 Why is INSAS a semi-auto rifle only?
1.2 Why Indian army uses AK-47 in COIN, but not INSAS
1.3 5.56 mm. vs. <your larger caliber here>
1.4 Which is better: M-16, AK-47, INSAS, Steyr etc.
1.5 What is the difference between AK-47, AK-56, AKM, AK-74, AK-101 etc.?
1.6 What's with the slant barrel tip often seen on AKs being used by Indian forces? Are they wearing the barrels out or is it poor maintenance?

____________________________________________________
most BRFites who have been around for sometime know of something called 'Jcage's theory of circular discussions'.
which, according to a much respected member who has gone AWOL, claimed that we tend to have the same cycle of discussions every few months.
every time an issue is discussed threadbare someone comes along and asks the same question that initiated the older cycle and the cycle re-starts on its journey. many knowledgeable folk get tired by this cyclical nature and end up quitting and that drives down the quality of discussions even further.

the point of this thread is to gather the questions that keep appearing on BR e.g 'IAF is an air force of flying coffins' 'LCA hasn't been successful even after 30 years' etc.

we would then try to create a FAQ thread with those questions and their answers, so that the next time one of the common questions appear we can direct people to the FAQ section instead of going the whole hog of trying to answer individually every time. :)

what we are asking from BRFites
a) please post questions which you think should be in the FAQ thread.

conditions
i) should be relevant to Indian military/ defence research etc.
ii) be as specific as possible so that a specific answer might be given. for example,
'were the NSG commandos in 26/11 operations without adequate equipment ?' is a better question than 'are our soldiers well equipped ?'
iii) not all might be included in FAQ so don't hold anything back thinking it's a stupid question.
iv) that said this thread is not for random discussions either so kindly hold those back.
v) IMPORTANT : please add one or more of the following tags as applicable
IAF, IN, IA, DRDO.

b) after we have a critical mass of questions we would go about the job of answering those questions. for that we would invite answers from our members themselves. that is still some way off and the procedure would be announced on this thread at some later date.

now, for the questions ! shoot !


Last edited by archan on 09 Oct 2013 11:47, edited 3 times in total.
added index.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 23 Nov 2010 21:23 
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Some incorrect statements that I have read countless times myself:

IA:
1> IA troops are not equipped with NVGs in forwards areas. Even "quality" BPJs are in inadequate numbers.
2> Women have been inducted in BSF. They have fought in various guerilla groups like Naxals and LTTE. Why are they being denied entry into IA?
IMHO: The best answer is this article by Maj Gen Mrinal Suman.
3> Why does IA not use attack helicopters in CI ops?
4> The common misconception regarding border posts. Why does IA not retaliate to Pakistan's ceasefire violations? Why does the post being attacked not fired back?

IAF:
1> Tejas still not operational after 30 yrs.
2> PLAAF has overwhelming superiority over IAF because it operates 2000 combat aircrafts.
3> Dhruv is a BK 117 rip off.
4> Dhruv still cannot operate at high altitudes. Sadly, this misconception is CAG's fault.



Obviously, there are many more. Will add as I remember.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2010 00:05 
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Rahul M, is there any thought of BRF having a wiki with senior BRF members/admins having moderation/editing rights? Something along the lines of www.citizendium.org?

It's terribly frustrating not to have an accurate, up-to-date reference source regarding India's military. There are some great articles on Wikipedia (I get the sense that several of them have been written by BRF members), but the fact that anyone can edit them creates a lot of problems.

It would be great to use a platform that combines the dynamism of a wiki with the control/quality brought by a role for experts.

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Why_Citizendium%3F

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:Eduzendium

I don't have any special allegiance to Citizendium; if someone has a better idea, please mention it.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2010 02:07 
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Rahul: I tend to agree with the approach that Avarachan is suggesting. BRF is an excellent knowledge-base, but it is all sitting in forum discussion threads, which are impossible to mine & extract information out of. Its like a flowing river, as opposed to a reservoir. That's the reason for circular discussions. We need to have a Wiki like "sticky" site where people can be pointed to. It will mean more work for the moderators, however.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2010 04:38 
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>Why don't we develop the AMCA in a joint venture with South Korea and Japan? they're friendly, they're not traditional Russian customers and they're roughly at the same stage of technical expertise as India, if not behind.

(I assume this would have been asked before.)


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2010 17:53 
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Cannot believe this is not mentioned:

Why C17 and not An124, Il76 or A400? Why wasn't a RFI sent? Tag: IAF
Is Arjun a waste? Tag: IA


Last edited by Tanaji on 25 Nov 2010 15:52, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2010 20:06 
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^^^ Tags people !!! please.

thanks for the questions, keep them coming.


Avrachan and Prem Kumar, we are still gathering questions but there have been similar efforts before, have a look at the open source intelligence thread and others with similar titles in general discussion forum and put your thoughts there.
also, please add a synopsis of what exactly needs to be done.

p.s. Prem ji, we did have such a thing called BR monitor and SRR. unfortunately admins and mods can't provide all the content, members have to step up. in the past they did and as a result we had those excellent in-house publications.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2010 21:36 
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1) Questions about Arjun's weight, dimension, over heating problem and comparison with T-90

2) Quality and quantity of Indian nuclear weapons

3) Serial production of LCA, Arjun

4) Stopping power of 5.56 mm bullets vs & 7.62mm ( INSAS Vs AK )
--ArmenT has an excellent blog on firearms

5) Gorshkov, Akula cost

6) Best MRCA contender :x

Tags: Arjun, LCA, Indian nukes, INSAS


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 24 Nov 2010 21:47 
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Rahul M, thanks for the reply. OK, I see the "open source intelligence" thread and the "Wikipedia edit" thread. Will post some ideas there in the next two weeks. (I'm in the midst of exams now.)


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2010 15:53 
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Another one:

Why did it take so long for the NSG to clear the Taj in the 26/11 attacks
Tag: NSG, 26/11


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 25 Nov 2010 16:05 
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The usefullnes of the AMCA programme. In view of the completion of the LCA programme.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 26 Nov 2010 23:06 
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TAG: IAF, TEJAS, LCA

Why do we not produce 20 LCAs per year? Why only 8? (Got to be the most repeated statement/question/whine. Totally disregards economical and more importantly technical issues of fielding a newly developed aircraft).


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2010 00:02 
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some very good ones people, keep them coming please. :)


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2010 00:16 
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Q: Does the IAF have an inferior safety record when compared to other Air Forces?

Q: Why dont we upgrade the MiG 21 and continue to use it/build more to fill up numbers?

TAG: IAF


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2010 07:52 
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Why is Agni-1 doing a Tomahawk? :twisted:

It seems the initial sharp turn then seems going straight up.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 27 Nov 2010 13:02 
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1. With BVR missiles are dogfights a thing of the past ?
2. How relevant is maneuverability in today's aerial wars with HMDS and off-boresight target acquisition?
3. How far are fighter aircrafts from becoming pilotless?


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2010 06:30 
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what are harbour trials. Is it a test of the subs parking skills


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2010 08:29 
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I'll be the first to admit that I've been guilty of this in the past: :mrgreen:

Why don't we give the Kaveri project to ISRO?

Tags: GTRE, DRDO, ISRO


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2010 21:06 
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Why is our army not taking action against naxals?

Tags: IA, Naxal


Last edited by PratikDas on 29 Nov 2010 09:46, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2010 08:44 
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Airavat wrote:


Why does it take 16 hours to kill 2 militants? :(( :(( :((

Kasab and co killed 166 in 60 hours. If they were as slow as Bhindians they would have manage only 7 people no?

Read the article for anwers. I have archived the article as a quick answer to stupid questions that have sparked this FAQ therad. It should really be renamed stupid questions thread.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2010 22:14 
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Quote:
I hope for the love of God we're not building the AMCA around a Kaveri Mk2.

Quote:
With the Tejas, the ADA the aircraft to be just about adequate at 82kN without a lot of spare thrust for incremental gains in weight later on. In any case, despite all the optimism fostered by the recent successes notched by GTRE, unless they can deliver (not promise) a F119/AL-41 class engine, they should concentrate on delivering engines for the Tejas and UCAVs. IMHO HAL and the IAF ought be seriously considering the F135.


IOW, people have no sense of which engine goes where.
lots of :(( :(( based only on thrust figures and sometimes even that is absent. :((


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2010 22:37 
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Rahul M wrote:
Quote:
I hope for the love of God we're not building the AMCA around a Kaveri Mk2.

Quote:
With the Tejas, the ADA the aircraft to be just about adequate at 82kN without a lot of spare thrust for incremental gains in weight later on. In any case, despite all the optimism fostered by the recent successes notched by GTRE, unless they can deliver (not promise) a F119/AL-41 class engine, they should concentrate on delivering engines for the Tejas and UCAVs. IMHO HAL and the IAF ought be seriously considering the F135.


IOW, people have no sense of which engine goes where.
lots of :(( :(( based only on thrust figures and sometimes even that is absent. :((


Actually I did spend about 15 minutes in revision before making that post and I maintain, a pair of F119s on a fifth generation AMCA is perfectly feasible. The F135 much less so, but worth examining nevertheless (the design is far from frozen). Its the IAF once again cribbing about the AMCA _____ 'fall[ing] short on certain key specifications' and getting a re-engined fighter five year hence, that has me worried.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2010 01:50 
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TAGS: IAF, MISSILE, SAM, AKASH, DRDO

AKASH is nothing but an outdated copy of SA-6.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2010 07:04 
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koti wrote:
JASSM is being sold to Australia and other allies of USA. It has a range of around 400KM.
Pak has already operationalized Raad and Babur. Both of which have substantial Chinese help in development.

Why are we limiting ourselves to 300KM and following MCTR for Brahmos???


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2010 15:17 
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shiv wrote:
what are harbour trials. Is it a test of the subs parking skills


Hey that's my post in the arihant thread? :(( :P


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2010 16:49 
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Pratyush wrote:
shiv wrote:
what are harbour trials. Is it a test of the subs parking skills


Hey that's my post in the arihant thread? :(( :P


Its a valid question for this thread isn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 01 Dec 2010 17:14 
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Not fair. :((


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2011 21:44 
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the following people please check their PM inbox.
regards.

Austin
Raja Bose
rohitvats
ArmenT


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2011 22:45 
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Location: Hamari chai bahut kadvi hoti hai..
Arjun FAQs:

1. Why does Arjun not have an autoloader ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + Autoloader + IA + GSQR

2. Why does Arjun have a rifled gun, how does it compare with the contemporary 120mm SB guns ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + rifled gun + IA + GSQR + DRDO

3. Is Arjun rail/road transportable ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + railway + wagon

5. Why does Arjun have a boxy turret as against wedge shaped turret found on M1A Abrams,Leo2A6 or even the Chally-2 ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + turret + Kanchan

6. How does Arjun's armor protection compare with the T-90 S ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + armor + kanchan + T-90 s

7. Can Arjun fire a APFSDS despite having a rifled gun ?
tags : Arjun + MBT + APFSDS + DRDO

8. Why does Arjun use hydro-pneumatic suspension as against a torsion bar on T-90s or even the Abrams ?
tags: Arjun +MBT + suspension + hydro-pneumatic

9. Why is Arjun heavier than the T-90s ? How do both compare in terms of mobility and endurance ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + weight + range+ mobility + T90 s

10. How big a silhouette does Arjun have as compared to the T 90s, how relevant is the difference when it comes to the battlefield ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + silhouette + T-90s + target size

11. How do Arjun and T-90 s compare in terms of their IR signatures ?
tags : Arjun + MBT + IR signature + auxiliary power unit

12. What challenges does a relatively heavier Arjun with a 4 man crew and no auto-loader pose to the IA specially in terms of it's tank doctrine ?
tags: Arjun + MBT + IA + doctrine + autoloader + heavier

13. Can Arjun fire an ATGM from it's main gun ?
tags: Arjun +MBT + Lahat + ATGM


Last edited by negi on 21 Feb 2011 23:44, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 21 Feb 2011 23:02 
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thanks a lot negi ! this will be very useful.

people, can we have a FAQ list for navy related matters, we only have had a couple so far.
TIA.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011 00:12 
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Adding some more questions to negi's post:

14) List of imported stuff on Arjun Mk1 and what percentage does that add up to?
tags:Arjun+MBT+engine+sights+tracks

15) Cost comparison of Arjun and T-90.
tags: Arjun+T90+cost

16) Planned/Expected upgrades for Arjun Mk2.
tags: Arjun+Engine+BFMS+sights+armor

Plus for a t-90 FAQ

1) Reasons for T90 purchase?
tags: T90+T80+PA

2) T-90 legacy and improvements over T72
tags: T90+t72+t80+T72BU+engine+armor+gun

3) Differences between T90A, S, M and Bhishma?
tags:T90+turret+ERA+Shotra+TI

4) What issues still plague the Bhishma and are they present only in the earlier ones or on the recent ones too?
tags:T90+TI+heat+engine

**************

It will be nice if we can create a sort of a comparison chart that gives out the specs and basic explanation of the strengths and weaknesses for the three Indian tanks (with respect to each other) but also with respect to what the *deleted* and Pakis's have.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011 04:04 
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@Rahul M,

Got your pm. Sure, not a bad idea - can you point to where the n00b questions were asked recently re. the subject?


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011 04:08 
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1. why cant drdo be privatised or invite the private industry to build something that we dont have in any form right now
2. handover gtre to isro or when we can build cryos/semi cryos why cant we build 60s tech jet engines
3. why dont we reverse engineer like the chinese do


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011 09:32 
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Obervation/rant/question

Why is AMCA models being projected at shows when it is still a paper plane with even design is not finalised? Russinas anc chinese were very secretive about their fifth generation programs. If one looks at history in Indian context,all projects of high strategic importance are kept under wraps until the project is nearing completion.case in check being arihant, shourya,recently K4 tested and ready to be deployed etc with very little or no information in public domain. but with AMCA we seem to be more forthcoming.

1. Is it that planners dont think AMCA is important enough in strategic matrix and will not live up to its expectations?
2. The AMCA is in really advanced stage and will be unveiled sooner than expected?


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011 13:03 
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SaiK wrote:
when we can think of an LCA Mk3 twin engined with a home grown AESA radar , ECM and stores. 5 years down the line, it would be a win-win.

“LCA Mk3 twin engined”. This suggestion comes up every 2 – 3 month.
Quoting Rahul M from “Design your own fighter” thread
Rahul M wrote:
moreover, if you try to design a twin engined tejas you will end up with something very much like the AMCA. the question then would be would you prefer to design a fighter to the best of your abilities or would you design a sub-capable fighter (at about the same money and effort) just for the sake of making a twin engined LCA ?
IOW, AMCA is the twin engined LCA you are talking of. if you follow its evolution from the early 2000's this will become all the more clear. they started off with an idea very similar to yours but with better understanding of their own capabilities and the needs of tomorrow the design has evolved to its present version.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011 13:08 
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A request to Negi ji and Gurneesh ji, both of you have done a good job in listing the questions on Arjun and Tin Can.
Can you also, provide the answers along with the questions ( I know answers has already been provided :)) then people might not ask the same questions again ?


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 22 Feb 2011 18:43 
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D'ji, patience man. why do you think we have this thread in the first place, some gurus are already working on the answers. ;)

kanson ji, please check PM.
thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 23 Feb 2011 14:09 
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These are indeed "Frequently Asked Questions"

suryag wrote:
1. why cant drdo be privatised or invite the private industry to build something that we dont have in any form right now

India private industry does not have the technology to do the things DRDO has done. The erason why private works in the West is because the technology was developed by private companies (sometimes with government support) in the first half of the 20th century and funding for research and further refinement continued in the West. The wars fought in the first 50 years of the 20th century ensured that a lot of industries were built out of the private industry innovations of the era. India as a colony got zilch.

Even now - the top Indian private companies do not have the technology to build a fighter aircraft - although we are seeing the first entrants into armored vehicles and small civil aircraft. Secondly, private companies need to make profits and cannot splurge money on the development of items that are vital but get only a few orders. Imagine a company that has to be set upto build canopies for 126 aircraft - say MRCA. The order will end around 150 period. What will the company do after that with all the special tooling and floor space dedicated to that? Better to start making biskoot right away - and they will sell millions every month for lower tech and lower investment

suryag wrote:
2. handover gtre to isro or when we can build cryos/semi cryos why cant we build 60s tech jet engines


Cryo and aero engines are quite different. Rocket engines are use and throw and nobody gets killed in a failure. Jet engines need to be reused and need to be reliable. Jet engine tech is "1960s" in name only. For example anyone who makes wheels is using 10,000 year old tech because there is some evidence of the use of wheels 10,000 years ago. Modern jet engines are highly complex and it is cutting edge tech. Nothing 60s about it.

suryag wrote:
3. why dont we reverse engineer like the Chinese do

Well we call it "import substitution". In Aeo India 2009 I had visited the stall of the Air Force's Base repair Depot. They had displayed a whole lot of stuff they had manufactured by reverse engineering. This year I went to their stall and again saw a whole lot of stuff (looking like cogs, plates, perspex parts, washers, brake pads etc) and I asked if all these had been reverse engineered as well. The man said "No. These are items that we would like Indian private industry to make for us". I regretted not having brought along with me a friend who owns a private auto parts company. These are just the sort of people who will reverse engineer individual parts.

If we can get people to reverse engineer in top quality about 100,000 or more different parts that go into an aircraft - then we can build that aircraft to the original standard. I believe even the Chinese have not built things up to the original standard. Copying is easier than achieving quality.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2011 07:17 
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I don't mean to be insulting but the fact is that we Indians tend to look at say Infosys or Tata and say "we have the best of the best" - all hi tech industries.

That is a blinkered statement because if "All technology" requires 100 companies India probably has only 40 while the US has 95.

So western tech giants who are willing to invest in India as part of the offsets clause say "We have no way of spending our money in India even f we are willing to spend. India just does not have the existing industrial base to take up a lot of manufacture. That means factories, manpower and skills.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=14515

Quote:
Today, huge credits are being accumulated and the common refrain from the European and American players is that we can't even spend the money if we want to. That is not a good situation for India and it is enterprises like us that have to step in and make profitable use of the offset obligations.


The other thing is the point I made in the post before this. Many defence requirements are very low volume. From the same link:
Quote:
we felt that running a Defence-oriented activity within a large automotive company was not giving it the right amount of focus. The pressures of a 3,000-4,000 unit specialised vehicles business was getting lost in a 1,00,000 units a year commercial vehicles company.


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 Post subject: Re: FAQ Thread
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2011 16:43 
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Location: Bruneau Jarbridge
Tags: Indian Army, Agni-1, User Trials, IGMDP

Why is the Agni-1 being test-fired long after its induction into the Armed Forces (specifically Army)? What is a user trial and what does it entail?


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