China Military Watch - Jan 11, 2011

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 09 Dec 2012 19:40

I am more interested in knowing whether Sri Lanka actually approached the Chinese to launch their satellite or did China volunteer to do it for them to send a signal to India.

China has definitely been proactive in providing assistance to countries around India. Nobody minds the free cash and services that China is so willing to provide them. Whether that would translate into any real strategic advantage is highly doubtful.

Even with the whole Maldives fiasco, our naval presence remains on the island. I do not mind these nations being pro China, shit would really hit the fan when they decide to become anti India, which would be EXTREMELY foolish on their part in the long term.

Don · Post by **Don** » 09 Dec 2012 19:55

sourab_c wrote:I am more interested in knowing whether Sri Lanka actually approached the Chinese to launch their satellite or did China volunteer to do it for them to send a signal to India.

I don't think its a signal to India its purely commercial. They are selling satellites all over the world. Nigeria, Venezuela, Pakistan in addition to these countries :

Sri Lanka ordered one 1n 2012
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/supremesat-3.htm

Belarus Sat 1 will be launched in 2014
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/belarus-sat-1.htm

Laos
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/laosat-1.htm

Túpac Katari 1 (TKSat 1) - Bolivia will launched in 2013
http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/tupak-katari-1.htm

http://my.news.yahoo.com/china-launch-s ... 05840.html

China to launch second African satellite
By Zhao Lei in Beijing/China Daily | Asia News Network – Sun, Nov 18, 2012

Beijing (China Daily/ANN) - China Great Wall Industry Corp will launch the Democratic Republic of the Congo's first satellite, which will also be developed by China, before the end of 2015, according to a contract signed yesterday.

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Nicar ... a_999.html

Nicaragua negotiating satellite purchase with China
by Staff Writers
Managua (AFP) Sept 14, 2012

Nicaragua is in negotiations with China to purchase a $300 million satellite, which the Central American country hopes to launch into orbit by 2016, officials said.

DFH 4 bus
http://www.cgwic.com/In-OrbitDelivery/C ... -4Bus.html

sourab_c · Post by **sourab_c** » 09 Dec 2012 20:17

Who is paying for it? Did the Chinese provide the line of credit for the launches? Did Sri Lanka pick China OVER India or did the Chinese approach the Sri Lankans offering their services for free in the first place?

If it is purely commercial, than why not extend beyond countries like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nicaragua etc? Has the Chinese space program benefited economically from these launches?

Like I said, nobody minds the free goodies, whether it would have any strategic implication or help China forward its interests would have to be seen in the future.

I do not think people like you and me are in a position to judge on such matters. We can merely speculate. And you do not have to Google images of Chinese satellite to make a point.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 09 Dec 2012 20:28

Dont worry it is going to disappear just like the Nigerian sat

Don · Post by **Don** » 09 Dec 2012 20:33

sourab_c wrote:Who is paying for it? Did the Chinese provide the line of credit for the launches? Did Sri Lanka pick China OVER India or did the Chinese approach the Sri Lankans offering their services for free in the first place?

If it is purely commercial, than why not extend beyond countries like Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nicaragua etc? Has the Chinese space program benefited economically from these launches?

Like I said, nobody minds the free goodies, whether it would have any strategic implication or help China forward its interests would have to be seen in the future.

I do not think people like you and me are in a position to judge on such matters. We can merely speculate. And you do not have to Google images of Chinese satellite to make a point.

You are absolutely right we can only speculate but apparently its a joint venture..

http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/sri-la ... 15745.html

Sri Lanka's first satellite launched
By Indo Asian News Service | IANS – Tue, Nov 27, 2012.. .

Colombo, Nov 27 (IANS) Sri Lanka's first communication satellite developed by a private company was Tuesday launched by a Chinese state−owned firm from a space centre in China, Xinhua reported.

The satellite is a joint venture between Sri Lankan company SupremeSAT (Pvt) Ltd and China Great Wall Industry Corp. It was launched from the Xi Chang satellite launch centre in Sichuan province.

The satellite, SupremeSAT−1, will provide communications services including broadband internet, telecom and broadcasting services to the Middle East, South and Central Asia and Australia.

The launch was initially expected to take place Nov 22 but was postponed due to bad weather.

The total investment for the project is estimated at $320 million. This includes the construction of a satellite Content Management Station and a Space Academy in Sri Lanka's central town of Kandy.

"This is a proud moment for us as citizens of Sri Lanka," Vijith Peiris, group chief executive officer of SupremeSAT, was quoted as saying.

With the successful launch, Sri Lanka became the 45th country to own a communication satellite and becomes the third south Asian country to have launched a satellite after India and Pakistan.

The Sri Lankan Board of Investment entered into an agreement with SupremeSAT earlier this year to launch the satellite.

The satellite will be positioned above Sri Lanka in a geo−stationary orbit at 87.5 degree east, approximately 36,000 km above the surface of the earth.

Harshad · Post by **Harshad** » 09 Dec 2012 23:04

Don wrote: You are absolutely right we can only speculate but apparently its a joint venture..

The company in Sri Lanka was established 18th Sep 2012. Less than three month old.

This brings us to a new definition of Joint Venture: Chinese venture in your land, waters and space while you smoke joints.

In the backdrop of contradictory statements about the China Sat 12 Communication Satellite launched into the orbit recently, Opposition Leader Ranil Wickremesinghe today asked whether China was using Satellite Orbit slots allocated to Sri Lanka in this case.

Making a statement under Standing Order 23(2), Mr. Wickremesinghe said the local media announced the launch of Sri Lanka s satellite named Supreme SAT -1 whereas the foreign media announced the launch of such a satellite called China Sat 12 Communication Satellite by China.

He said that Sri Lanka s outer space was free for the use of all states in the world according to International Law.

The Constitution of the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) makes provision for the allocation of Satellite orbit slots to be registered with the ITU. Sri Lanka too is entitled to such slots. The media does not specify whether China SAT 12 Communication Satellite is utilizing a slot allocated to China or Sri Lanka, he said.

He also said Supreme SAT (Pvt) Limited , a Board of Investment(BoI) company had entered into an agreement with China Great Wall Industry Corporation to co-brand this satellite as Supreme SAT 1. He asked the government to make a detailed statement on this matter.

Mr. Wickremesinghe requested the government to give details about the satellite orbit slots allocated to Sri Lanka, the system followed in selecting a party for the country s satellite project, the total cost for SupremeSAT, the shareholders and directors of SupremeSAT (Pvt) Ltd.

Besides, he asked the government to table the agreements between BoI and SupremeSAT (Pvt) Ltd, China Great Wall Industry Corporation and SupremeSAT (Pvt) , Government of Sri Lanka and SupremeSAT (Pvt) Ltd, and the project proposals.

http://www.lankanewspapers.com/news/2012/12/80281.html

Harshad · Post by **Harshad** » 09 Dec 2012 23:08

krishnan wrote:Dont worry it is going to disappear just like the Nigerian sat

Please dont mislead us.

The satellite failed in 18 months while its rated life is / was 15 years

It failed due to defective Chinese made solar panels and / or defective power supply components.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 09 Dec 2012 23:57

Chinese are now into cheap satellites. Like how they have 3 grades of each product - good, bad, better/worse which is the same as good/bad relatively speaking.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 10 Dec 2012 00:10

The cheap satellites are not too bad for countries that cannot afford to spend much or like pakistan need a place holder not to loose their spot in orbit. ISRO makes satellites for Europe while china is only good enough for sri-lanks and pakistan.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 10 Dec 2012 00:23

Now , lets come back to the basics.
Specs of J31 , J20 ???

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 10 Dec 2012 00:59

So what's newsworthy about the CPC helping the Rajapaksha family which controls 70% of Sri Lanka's national budget to further loot their own country? Just corrupt crooks sipping chai together. They can fly as many satellites as they want for 2-bit banana republics but in the end, Sri Lankans know that they can become Indian breakfast toast at any time.

This will not translate into Chinese bases in the Indian Ocean because the last thing China needs is the Vietnam coast bristling with Brahmos batteries. They are boxed into the South China Sea by India, Singapore, Vietnam, Philippines and Japan and there's nothing they can do about it. The intelligent thing to do is accept it and play nice if they want unfettered access to middle east oil.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 10 Dec 2012 01:16

Victor wrote: This will not translate into Chinese bases in the Indian Ocean because the last thing China needs is the Vietnam coast bristling with Brahmos batteries. They are boxed into the South China Sea by India, Singapore, Vietnam, Philippines and Japan and there's nothing they can do about it. The intelligent thing to do is accept it and play nice if they want unfettered access to middle east oil.

Wow, a seriously scary missile that is so well known in the world and every armed force is terrified of it. And a group of super power countries that is willing to fight China till death. Let me see, China has fought wars with US, USSR, and two members of this group already. Of course, US and USSR are nothing compare to this group. China is in big trouble. LoL ...

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 10 Dec 2012 01:55

Wow yes no wonder IN chiefs statements had chinese undies in a knot. a few brahmos equipped ships in SEA must have them turning yellow.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 Dec 2012 02:38

sourab_c wrote:I am more interested in knowing whether Sri Lanka actually approached the Chinese to launch their satellite or did China volunteer to do it for them to send a signal to India.

China has definitely been proactive in providing assistance to countries around India. Nobody minds the free cash and services that China is so willing to provide them. Whether that would translate into any real strategic advantage is highly doubtful.

Even with the whole Maldives fiasco, our naval presence remains on the island. I do not mind these nations being pro China, shit would really hit the fan when they decide to become anti India, which would be EXTREMELY foolish on their part in the long term.

Don't worry. Entire Indian sub-continent are SDRE onlee

They take money from whomever is interested but vote for whomever they want

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Dec 2012 02:48

Harshad wrote: The satellite failed in 18 months while its rated life is / was 15 years

It failed due to defective Chinese made solar panels and / or defective power supply components.

How many Chinese satellites that they have launched for their own use have lasted even 10 yrs in orbit ? Not many very likely. Most of their satellites are designed for a lifetime of 2-3 yrs, and that explains why they have so many more launches to date. It is all for replacement satellites which go missing from orbit sooner or later.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 10 Dec 2012 06:15

Just curious.

What would be the role of China's battle tanks in a future conflict for Taiwan or with India?

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Dec 2012 06:16

target practice

eklavya · Post by **eklavya** » 10 Dec 2012 11:21

Philippines backs rearming of Japan

Another great Chinese foreign policy success. China is rapidly becoming the mirror image of Nazi Germany.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 10 Dec 2012 12:03

ashi wrote:
Wow, a seriously scary missile that is so well known in the world and every armed force is terrified of it. And a group of super power countries that is willing to fight China till death. Let me see, China has fought wars with US, USSR, and two members of this group already. Of course, US and USSR are nothing compare to this group. China is in big trouble. LoL ...

Just two hundred of those missiles will make sure China does not have a surface fleet.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 10 Dec 2012 14:16

Chinmayanand wrote:
ashi wrote:
Wow, a seriously scary missile that is so well known in the world and every armed force is terrified of it. And a group of super power countries that is willing to fight China till death. Let me see, China has fought wars with US, USSR, and two members of this group already. Of course, US and USSR are nothing compare to this group. China is in big trouble. LoL ...
Just two hundred of those missiles will make sure China does not have a surface fleet.

I hope 200 is an accurate approximation.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2012 19:02

China air force in large-scale drill amid tensions

Associated Press
6:46 pm | Friday, December 7th, 2012

AP FILE PHOTO
BEIJING—China’s air force has staged one of its largest-ever drills amid heightened tensions with Japan and Beijing’s southern neighbors over territorial claims, state media reported Friday.

The air combat exercises involving more than 100 pilots were held over 11 days last month in the vast northwestern region of Xinjiang, according to the website of the Communist Party newspaper People’s Daily and other official news outlets.

Pilots practiced engaging in dog fights and countering electro-magnetic interference, the reports said.

Aircraft taking part came from 14 separate units and included China’s most modern jet fighters, the J-10 and J-11, along with older models and two-seater Sukhoi Su-30s purchased from Russia, the reports said.

The exercises are a vivid demonstration of China’s vastly improved military capabilities that have unnerved other Asian nations and spur a renewed US focus on the region. The Global Times newspaper published by People’s Daily called them the largest in recent years in both firepower and numbers of aircraft, and said they also involved large numbers of technicians and experts on missiles, radar and other related technologies.

They came amid stepped-up sea patrols around East China Sea islands claimed by China but controlled by Japan that followed an explosion of violent anti-Japanese protests across China in September.

Beijing has dispatched China Marine Surveillance vessels almost daily to confront Japanese Coast Guard cutters around the uninhabited rocks north of Taiwan, known as the Senkakus in Japan and Diaoyu in China. Taiwan, which calls the islands Diaoyutai, also claims them.

The drills also follow renewed feuding between China and other claimants to islands and maritime territory in the West Philippine Sea (South China Sea). Aggressive patrolling by Chinese vessels has prompted Vietnam and the Philippines to bolster their forces with additional ships, planes, and submarines, and has drawn in the US, which insists on free navigation through the region of crucial shipping lanes and rich fishing stocks and undersea mineral wealth.

While the exercises were being held, China’s navy also for the first time launched and recovered aircraft from the country’s first aircraft carrier, a refurbished Ukrainian craft that will be armed with J-15 fighter-bombers, a Chinese adaptation of the Russian Sukhoi Su-33.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2012 19:05

http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/ ... mbat-ready

Speaking to the PLA's Second Artillery Corps - its strategic missile force - yesterday, Xi again highlighted the importance of drills and called on the corps to make concrete preparations for combat and to beef up drills to enhance its ability to carry out missions under complicated circumstances, Xinhua reported.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 10 Dec 2012 19:34

China has claimed so many islands in the South China sea. Now , it's time to see whether it has the muscle to take these islands in its control or it will GUBO and skii downhill. In case of downhill skii , what will the poor chinese do with loss of face ? In case of no downhill skii , the Amirkhan is already ready to explore the Han musharraf without lube. China is caught between the devil and the deep sea.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Dec 2012 19:45

philipines has announced the two CG cutters gifted by the US will armed with anti ship missiles.
japan is also going through its usual dharmic motions before approving 10 new OPVs for philipines which is a weak country and needs help

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/37265/ ... from-japan

when will Japan act their age and size? its time they got over their mental issues and started acting like the mid sized gorilla they are.

Victor · Post by **Victor** » 10 Dec 2012 21:11

Japan just passed weapons export laws a year ago which will let them export more patrol ships and anti-submarine aircraft to Philippines, Vietnam etc. It will allow Japan to jointly develop and export advanced weapons systems with western collaboration. The top weapons companies in Europe and US have long wanted its muscular heavy industrial companies to join the party and share the cost of expensive new systems and the process has just begun. It has already developed an advanced nuclear capability under the cover of its power supply and space research companies with US help. The US transfered required tech to it decades ago just like it did to Israel. It has accumulated enough plutonium to build more bombs than China, India and pakis put together. The path is clear and all that is needed to speed up the process is more tactical brilliance from China which should be forthcoming. Link

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 10 Dec 2012 21:56

shiv wrote:
Why do they need tanks? To drive across the sea to Taiwan? Or to drive across the Himalayas from Chinese occupied North Arunachal to South Arunachal? To deliver Kerosene to selfd immolators in Lhasa?

Shiv ji, You are forgetting Tianenmen Square.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 10 Dec 2012 22:17

Shiv ji, You are forgetting Tianenmen Square.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 10 Dec 2012 22:39

Israeli F-16 Engines stolen......

http://tech.slashdot.org/story/12/12/09 ... edium=feed

Defense Tech reports that several F-16 engines weighing 3,700 pounds each have been stolen from a base in a central part of the country. Israeli officials played down the loss, saying the engines were old or retired and likely stolen for scrap. U.S. security and aviation experts contacted were not so dismissive of the missing engines and said that some countries would see value in having them and taking them apart. 'They're still more modern than anything in the Iranian air force inventory, and they would even be helpful to China in their jet engine development,' says Richard Aboulafia, noting that modern technology engine design remains 'a black art' and that competitors would love the opportunity to study them. This is not the first time jet engines have gone missing. In June 2011, Israel reported the loss of eight F-15 and F-16 fighter engines from a base at Tel Nof near Jerusalem when investigators found the engines had been taken away on large trucks, prompting speculation that the thieves had help from inside the base. In 2009, two F-5 engines were stolen from an airbase in Malaysia, tracked to Argentina and ultimately located in Uruguay."

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 10 Dec 2012 22:43

^ Israelis losing jet engines for theft

from their bases?

Looks like Israelies are busy feeding another

of Massa..

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 10 Dec 2012 22:45

tactical brilliance from China

the more we see the antics of China more it reminds of our neighbour Pak.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 11 Dec 2012 02:01

China’s military crossroads

Power transition rarely has occurred without bloodshed and chaos in Chinese history. From the first Shang dynasty, political change is usually violent, with force also being employed to retain power. Chinese analyst Xiao Han has called this the “ax gang” tradition — the ax has been the symbol of power since ancient times. In modern times, as Mao Zedong once famously said, “political power grows out of the barrel of a gun.”

The People’s Republic of China — born in blood in 1949 — has pursued endless domestic witch hunts and political purges. Mao and Deng Xiaoping between them got rid of at least five anointed successors who were discarded abruptly, or died mysteriously or under detention.

The first leadership transition without turmoil or bloodshed was in 2002, when Jiang Zemin stepped down in favor of Hu Jintao. This year, Mr. Xi’s ascension was preceded by a vicious power struggle that led to the ouster and disappearance of a rising star, Bo Xilai, and the swift conviction of his wife for the murder of a British national in what probably ranks as the mother of all orchestrated trials.

As Mr. Xi rose through the Communist Party ranks, he forged close ties with the military as a reservist, assuming leadership of a provincial garrison and serving as a senior aide to the defense minister. His wife, Peng Liyuan, is also linked to the military, having served as a civilian member of the army’s musicale troupe.

The real winner from the appointment of the conservative-dominated, seven-member Politburo Standing Committee is the military, whose rising clout in policy already has created an increasingly assertive China. The party has ceased to be a rigid monolith obedient to a single leader. Instead, it has become dependent on the military for its political legitimacy and to ensure domestic order. With rural protests increasing officially by more than 10 percent a year, and separatist unrest growing in the sprawling Tibetan plateau, Xinjiang and Inner Mongolia, China is now the only important country whose annual internal security budget surpasses its national defense spending.

The rise of a new dynasty of “princelings,” or sons of revolutionary heroes who have widespread contacts in the military, is another indicator that nationalism and militarism likely will strengthen in China. The princelings such as Mr. Xi, numbering in the hundreds, dominate the new Standing Committee and play a key role in the government and economy, in spite of their internecine power squabbles.

An examination of the new members of the 205-member Central Committee, the 25-member Politburo and the seven-member Politburo Standing Committee shows that political patronage and family connections were critical factors in their selection.

Another striking feature is the dominance of ethnic Han men in the party’s upper levels in a country that claims to represent 56 nationalities and trumpets gender equality. Although the restive ethnic-minority homelands make up more than 60 percent of China’s landmass, there is not even one token minority representative in the Politburo.

The factional infighting, recently witnessed for the slots in the party’s upper echelons, is even more intense at the provincial level, making bold policymaking difficult despite greater social instability and slower economic growth. The messy politics is an important driver of the flight of capital and professionals from China.

Since the Deng era, China has dumped the Marxist half of Marxism-Leninism but retained the Leninist part. Dictatorship is one thing that is not open to reform. China’s corrupt, faction-ridden political culture and bloody history, in any event, are conducive not to political reform but to political revolution.

China’s internal politics has an important bearing on its external policy. Stepped-up internal repression and aggressive external moves to change the territorial status quo in China’s favor are two sides of the same coin.

The stronger the military has become at the expense of the civilian leadership (every Chinese leader since Mao has been weaker than his predecessor), the more muscular Beijing’s approach has been toward its neighbors. Recent revelations about how some senior civilian leaders have amassed vast wealth even as their privileged children remain unbound by law or consequences only help to accentuate the party’s legitimacy problem.

China’s future is likely to be determined not by its hugely successful economy, which has turned the country into a global player in just one generation, but by its murky politics and the growing sway of the People’s Liberation Army. The leadership transition, far from cleaning up or stabilizing China’s politics, may actually allow the military to increasingly call the shots. We may see more military generals speak out of turn on strategic issues. The plain fact is that the foreign ministry is the weakest branch of the Chinese government because it is often overruled or simply ignored by the military and security establishments.

In this light, China’s neighbors and the U.S. military would be wise to brace themselves to face a less restrained China championing ever-expanding “core interests.”

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 11 Dec 2012 10:28

Despite all the bravado of the Indian forum members here, this is what your minister says and this is reality. LoL

India has to accept China's presence in 'exclusive' areas

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2012 10:47

I couldnt really understand what the imbecile minister was rambling on about, but sure the freedom of the seas is guaranteed by international law.

what he left unsaid but what the navy chief said recently is that china will also have to 'accept' that IN will go and protect indian interests anywhere in the world, including 200km from hainan island submarine base off vietnam coast

enjoy.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 11 Dec 2012 10:57

IN already has close relationship with Vietnam. China can't do jack shit about it.

ashi · Post by **ashi** » 11 Dec 2012 11:01

Singha wrote:I couldnt really understand what the imbecile minister was rambling on about, but sure the freedom of the seas is guaranteed by international law.

what he left unsaid but what the navy chief said recently is that china will also have to 'accept' that IN will go and protect indian interests anywhere in the world, including 200km from hainan island submarine base off vietnam coast

enjoy.

Will be fun to see when this materialized.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 11 Dec 2012 11:09

And he also said this:

He said many countries were "desperate" to have a closer link with the Indian Ocean, considering its importance in maritime and security issues, and China would "give its right arm to be as closely placed as India". "The pivot that India provides to the concept is the stepping stone for links" to other countries around it, said Khurshid.

Chinese giving away their right arm. But, then, this maybe in keeping with China's organ harvesting policy.

Gives meaning to the saying "an arm and a leg"

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2012 11:11

for now you can worry over the ONGC ships surveying the sea bed on behalf of vietnam oil exploration and mapping all the undersea topography, temp and salinity for our submarines to use

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... e-disputes

vietnam has also armed themselves with land based yakhont missiles to reach out in brotherly love if needed.

this has been going on under your chair since atleast 2009
http://www.ongcvidesh.com/Assets.aspx?tab=0#Vietnam

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 11 Dec 2012 11:18

ashi wrote:Despite all the bravado of the Indian forum members here, this is what your minister says and this is reality. LoL

India has to accept China's presence in 'exclusive' areas

ashi ji, we change our ministers and the whole paraphernalia every 5 years or so.

IN strategy is a longer term thing.

Besides if IN chief says something that does not match with minister speak even when IN Chief is by mandate supposed to do only what the civil authority tells him to do, what does that mean?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 11 Dec 2012 11:19

in hollywood its called good-cop:bad-cop

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 11 Dec 2012 11:21

The FM of India is saying, with its rising economic profile, India has to accept that China will be in areas that it has never been seen before.

That part the FM's speech, you drones got fine. What is left unsaid is this: "Don't be a dick, dear China, for you got to accept the same about India. The earlier the better". That is what diplomatic language is about. Something that the PLA clique would never let the sober clique to engage in. The PLA clique will understand the admiral and the sober-suited clique will understand the FM. And the drones will keep throwing their own feces around the internet