Bharat Rakshak

Yeah Dual use tech is one way to get around military sanctions , I remember reading some of the dual use tech that China got from US satellite was used to upgrade their missile guidance , atleast that is what Congress was saying officially.

Isnt the Z-9 and Z-15 are just reverse engineer Western stuff for Military applications , do the chinese pay any lic fee or they simply clone it.

Key Points

Fears that China could reverse-engineer the Sukhoi Su-35 are threatening a deal on the aircraft, according to Russian sources

The sources believe that China has agreed to buy 48 of the aircraft to allow indigenous manufacturers access to its fire control radar and engine


Russian fears that China would copy its Sukhoi Su-35 fighter aircraft may yet scupper a deal that Moscow and Beijing are reportedly close to signing for an export sale of the fighter to the People's Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF).

A source in the Russian government told the influential Moscow daily Kommersant : "The two sides are in practical agreement regarding the delivery to the PRC [People's Republic of China] of 48 Su -35s at a cost of USD4 billion."

However, reports on this sale continue with the additional detail that "an unanticipated obstacle to the deal has emerged. Moscow is requiring that Beijing provide a legally binding guarantee that it will refrain from making reverse engineered copies of the Russian fighter - largely so that this does not create a potential competitor in the market to sell the aircraft to other countries. China is no hurry to provide this guarantee."

Russian sources close to the Federal Service for Military-Technical Co-operation (FSVTS) state that such a guarantee "is an essential condition" of the sale. Some of the same industry sources point ou t that the Chinese have used their assistance from Russia or have copied designs to create competitors for almost every class of combat
aircraft that Russian industry offers for export and they do not want a repeat of this experience.

"No one really believes that the Chinese will actually purchase all 48 Su-35s," one industry representative told IHS Jane's . "They may sign a contract that says they are obligated to take delivery of all 48 but after they have received some number of aeroplanes they will truncate the deal, just as they did with the licence production of the Su -27SK."

China's Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC) signed an agreement in 1995 to manufacture 200 Su -27SK aircraft but only ended up building 95 of these models before Russia says it cancelled production and started producing the J-11B, its own "illegal" copy of the aircraft.

The J-11B has also has been offered to export customers as an alternative to the Russian Su -27 and Su-30MK models. Shenyang, industry sources point out, has also created a copy of the Su-33 carrier-capable fighter -developed from one of the T-10K/Su-27K prototypes that remained in Feodosia, Ukraine, after the break-up of the
Soviet Union - in the form of the J-15. Another Chinese fighter designated J-16 and also from Shenyang is claimed by Russia to be an illegal copy of the Su-30MK2.

Some of the same Russian sources recount that the cheaper, simpler fighter designs offered by China have already damaged Russian export prospects. The Chengdu FC-1/JF-17 model, which is a modernised and modified variant on the Mikoyan MiG-21, is credited with ruining chances for a sale of the MiG-29 in Egypt and causing problems with a MiG-29 sale to Myanmar. The issue was so serious that "in July 2010 the Russian Presidential Adminis tration commissioned a study on the subject," said one source.

"We have reliable customers like Venezuela standing in line waiting for this aircraft; they would like to have the Su -35, will purchase all the aircraft that they initially sign for and will not try to copy the aircraft as the Chinese intend to do," said a Russian industry representative. "It makes no sense to let the Chinese jump the queue in front of these buyers.

Some of us would be happier if this deal with Beijing is just never signed because we know how it will end."

Some of the same Russian industry representatives who have experience in working with China on previous sales and licence-production of the Su-27SK/J-11 have previously told IHS Jane's that Chinese manufacturers were looking to acquire the technology that is on board the aircraft, specifically the NIIP Irbis -E passive electronically scanned- array radar and the Saturn/Lyulka 117S jet engine, a next-generation modernisation of the Su-27's AL-31F engine.

The 117S is at present also the powerplant used in the Sukhoi T-50/PAK-FA fifth-generation fighter undergoing flight testing at the Gromov Flight Research Institute in Zhukovskiy. A Chinese request in 2010 to purchase an unspecified number of 117S engines, assumed to be for use in the new Chengdu Machine No 2001/J-20 stealth attack aircraft programme, has not been signed-off.

The assessment of Russian military technology analysts who have been following the history of defence co -operation with China is that Beijing's aerospace industry has hit a technological bottleneck in its work on building copies of the Su-27, which contains a radar and other systems designed more than 30 years ago. The function of the Su -35 purchase, they assert, is to give the Shenyang design team access to more contemporary Russian know-how.

"Preparing to purchase such a large number of these fighters is a clear indication that the Chinese have come up against serious technical problems in the process of their work to make modifications to their aircraft, which are based on the Su-27," said Vasily Kashin, one of the specialists at the Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and

Technologies (CAST), a Moscow think-tank with close ties to Russian industry. "With this purchase they can learn about new-age fighter aircraft [design]," he said. It is not clear what the PLAAF would be receiving in the Su-35 deal in addition to the aircraft (in terms of additional engines, weaponry, spare parts and so on). According to the contract negotiations thus far the Su -35s would cost about USD85 million per unit, which is considerably higher than the USD50 million per aircraft that is supposedly the price charged to the Russian Air Force. Sources close to the intergovernmental commission discussing the sale state that "the price may change in the process of negotiations".

^^^^
And pray tell us why ??

China's Share of Global Arms Imports Falls, Sipri Says

By Daniel Ten Kate - Mar 18, 2012

China, the world’s top weapons importer for much of the past decade, fell to fourth from second on an annual list from the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute as it produces more arms at home.

China received 5 percent of the volume of international transfers of “major conventional weapons” from 2007 to 2011, Sipri said in a report released today. The total was half that of India, which last year overtook China as the world’s largest recipient of arms, and less than South Korea and Pakistan.

“In certain sectors such as combat aircraft, with the exception of certain parts like engines, China is able to put together these systems largely from their own indigenous base now,” Paul Holtom, director of Sipri’s arms transfer program, said by phone. “India is still struggling there.”

China is set to increase military spending 11 percent this year as rising economic interests, territorial disputes and expanding global commitments drive demand for warships, missiles and fighter jets. Defense outlays of more than $100 billion per year are second only to the U.S., which along with Europe has maintained an arms embargo against the leadership in Beijing since a 1989 crackdown against protesters.

The volume of worldwide arms transfers in 2007-2011 was 24 percent higher than in 2002-2006, the report said. The Asia- Pacific region led the world, accounting for 44 percent of arms imports. It was followed by Europe at 19 percent, the Middle East at 17 percent and the Americas at 11 percent.

China Exports Double
China’s arms exports nearly doubled in 2007 to 2011 from five years earlier, Sipri said, making it the world’s sixth biggest supplier after the United Kingdom. About two-thirds of China’s weapons were sold to neighboring Pakistan, it said, including 50 JF-17 combat aircraft, 203 tanks and three warships.

Asia-Pacific spending on fighters, missiles and other equipment is set to grow an average 4.2 percent annually to $114 billion in 2016, according to Frost & Sullivan. China’s defense budget alone may rise 14 percent each year through 2015, according to Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

India last week said it will increase defense spending by 13 percent next year to 1.93 trillion rupees ($38.4 billion) as it seeks to counter China’s buildup.

India’s purchases range from naval to aircraft to ground forces, Holtom said, including Russian-made 120 Su-30MK and 16 MiG-29K fighter jets. Paris-based Dassault Aviation SA (AM) is in final talks on a contract to supply at least 126 Rafale combat planes to India to clinch the first-ever export deal for the jet, Chief Executive Officer Charles Edelstenne said March 9.

‘Status Element’
Brazil and South Africa are also stepping up weapons purchases, reflecting the emergence of middle-income powers on the global stage, Holtom said. Brazil’s orders of 4 Scorpène class submarines, a nuclear-powered submarine, and 50 transport helicopters will contribute to a “dramatic increase” in imports in the coming years, Sipri said.

“There is a status element there as well as an ability to project power over distance,” Holtom said. “The emerging powers desire to be seen having the equipment of a power, and in some of those cases it’s upgrading and modernizing from Cold War-era equipment.”

The U.S. remains the world’s largest exporter of military equipment, accounting for 30 percent of arms deliveries between 2007 and 2011, followed by Russia at 24 percent, the report said. The Pentagon is asking for $613.9 billion next year, which also includes $88.5 billion in supplemental spending for wars.

Stockholm-based Sipri, founded in 1966, conducts research into conflict, armaments, arms control and disarmament, according to its website. A substantial part of its funding comes from the Swedish government, it said.

The institute says it measures the volume of arms moved around the world using an index that is “based on the known unit production costs of a core set of weapons and is intended to represent the transfer of military resources rather than the financial value of the transfer.”

March 2012 Last updated at 12:05 ET Share this pageEmail Print Share this page

India behind 24% jump in world arms trade

India's spending on imported weapons was behind a 24% growth in the global arms trade over the last five years, a Sweden-based think tank says.

The country accounted for 10% of all arms imports in the period, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (Sipri) says.

India has gone on a major defence spending spree as it seeks to modernise its armed forces.

China, the former top arms importer, now builds more of its own weapons.

"India's imports of major weapons increased by 38% between 2002-06 and 2007-11," the Sipri study said.

It was "the world's largest recipient of arms, accounting for 10% of global arms imports" in the last five years, the report said.

India's defence spending will rise by 17% in the financial year 2012-13, Finance Minister Pranab Mukherjee said last week, announcing the government's latest budget.

In the last five years, India has bought combat aircraft from Russia and the UK and recently announced a $20bn (£12bn) deal with France to buy fighter jets.

India would continue to dominate the arms-buying market, Sipri said, with major purchases still in the pipeline.

The top five arms importers were all from the Asia region, Sipri said: India was followed by South Korea (6% of imports), China and Pakistan (both 5%) and Singapore (4%).

China, which in 2006-07 was the largest arms importer, has now become a major weapons exporter, the world's sixth largest behind the US, Russia, Germany, France and Britain.

India would continue to dominate the arms-buying market, Sipri said, with major purchases still in the pipeline.

The top five arms importers were all from the Asia region, Sipri said: India was followed by South Korea (6% of imports), China and Pakistan (both 5%) and Singapore (4%).

[b]China, which in 2006-07 was the largest arms importer, has now become a major weapons exporter, the world's sixth largest behind the US, Russia, Germany, France and Britain.

“In certain sectors such as combat aircraft, with the exception of certain parts like engines, China is able to put together these systems largely from their own indigenous base now,” Paul Holtom, director of Sipri’s arms transfer program, said by phone.

India is still struggling there.”

About two-thirds of China’s weapons were sold to neighboring Pakistan, it said, including 50 JF-17 combat aircraft, 203 tanks and three warships.

In the last five years, India has bought combat aircraft from Russia and the UK and recently announced a $20bn (£12bn) deal with France to buy fighter jets.

India would continue to dominate the arms-buying market, Sipri said, with major purchases still in the pipeline

Sagar G

India became independent in 1947. We are in 2012 now. That is 65 years of ‘independence’ and we are still importing about 80% of our military requirements.

After 65 years why don’t we have strong technological base? What are the reasons? How do we overcome those obstacles? Do we even have a strategic roadmap? Why don’t we create 10-15 excellent research centres around the country? How about increasing the involvement of private companies?

As a nation we are inferior people. Just not good enough. Look at the West. Look at the Chinese.

The magic words must be said to snap people out of it...

First know your place in the universe. Then ask questions.

Finally, I am NOT interested in increasing my post count. PERIOD. What do I get by doing that? You are talking rubbish here. If you don't have anything better to write then don't write.

Sorry for the cliche but, grass is always greener on the other side of the fence or if you prefer, the other line always moves faster.

Fine, let us keep importing.
Let us be dependent all the time.
Let us bury our head in the sand.
Let us not improve things in our favour.
Let us play catch up for next 65 years.
Anything else I have forgotten?

Okay! looking at all your other posts, this looks like a flame bait. Sorry, i am bit slow realising it.

Sadly, you'll be banned before someone bites. Or, did i already bite it. Anyhow, i'll go with the option of waiting for another 65 years and will be still happy that my grand children will be doing well. You see, few years back i have seen one more poster who kept saying that chinese plan for next 50 years or more, and we should do the same, of course no one knew what that plan actually was (the aim was world dominance, no brainer there). So, i think India has a plan too for next 65 years, and looking at the precedence we'll do much better than china (i am talking about citizens not the politburo).

Anyhow, have fun while you can here.

When will we stop importing?

When will we start exporting?

The Chinese military pilot training
programme was high on the agenda
of Airshow China 2010 held in the
southern Chinese city of Zhuhai in
November 2010. The historic context
of the matter was represented by a
rare Hongdu CJ-5 piston-engined
trainer aircraft (a licence-produced
copy of Yakovlev Yak-18 devel-
oped in the Soviet Union in the
early 1950s) and a Chengdu JJ-5
jet trainer (Chinese two-seat variant
of Soviet fighter MiG-17 manufac-
tured in China as J-5). The present
was demonstrated by Hongdu K-8
basic trainers of the Pakistani aero-
batic team Sherdils (PLAAF desig-
nation JL-8) and the future by the
advanced Hongdu L-15 supersonic
combat trainer and Hongdu L-7 pis-
ton-engined initial training plane.
The development of the former
two was heavily facilitated by the
Yakovlev design bureau special-
ists from Russia that consulted its
Chinese partners. That’s why the
L-15 looks like the Russian combat
trainer Yak-130 so much and the L-7
is indistinguishable from the yet-un-
realised Yak-152 design.

In second of its kind incident in four months, two Chinese helicopters reportedly violated Indian air space along the international border in Kaurik sector in tribal Kinnaur district of Himachal Pradesh.

Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), that guards the international border, has
sent a report of the incident to ministry of home affairs. "Two Chinese helicopters flew into India side report has been sent to ministry of home affairs (MHA)", ITBP deputy inspector general PS Papta told Hindustan Times.

Chinese helicopters were reportedly spotted in the Indian territory on March 16, 2012. The ITBP men patrolling their areas spotted the helicopters with help of binoculars. However, the military and the Indo Tibetan Border Police personnel could not trace any tale signs left by the Chinese helicopters.

Two Chinese helicopters have been seen flying over Kaurik last point on Hindustan-Tibet Road. The helicopters had entered seven kilometers inside Indian boundary before they flew back.
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Chinese spies target Taiwan's US-made defenses
By PETER ENAV

When Taiwanese security personnel detained a suspected spy for China at a top secret military base last month, they may have had a sense of deja vu.

Air force Capt. Chiang -- he was identified only by his surname -- was the fourth Taiwanese in only 14 months known to have been picked up on charges of spying for China, from which the island split amid civil war 63 years ago. While Taiwan's Defense Ministry did not disclose details of his alleged offense, his base in the northern part of the island hosts the air force's highly classified radar system and U.S.-made Patriot surface-to-air missiles, both vital to the island's aerial defense.

At the heart of the China's Taiwan espionage efforts are two systems with substantial U.S. technology -- the Lockheed Martin Corp. and Raytheon Co.-built Patriot missile defense system and the Lockheed-designed Po Sheng command and control system.

The Patriot uses sophisticated radar to track incoming aerial threats, then launches high-performance missiles to bring them down. The Po Sheng network -- the Chinese name means Broad Victory -- allows Taiwan's army, air force and navy to exchange battlefield information in real time. That is a big advantage in coordinating responses to the attack China has promised if Taiwan ever moves to make its de facto independence permanent.

Defense expert Arthur Ding of Taiwan's Institute for International Relations said successful penetration of the Patriot system could wreak havoc with Taiwan's air defenses, a key component in turning back any future Chinese attack.

"China wants radar data so they can develop countermeasures," he said. "If you have this data you can jam the system or redirect its missiles."

Former Taiwan Deputy Defense Minister Lin Chong-pin said it is not surprising that China was targeting the Patriot and Po Sheng systems.

"These are several of our key capabilities which have been helped by the U.S.," he said. "They are the main obstacles to seizing Taiwan by force."

A Taiwan Air Force Captain is the fourth confirmed person to be caught spying for China within the last two years, reported the Associated Press.

The espionage from within Taiwanese ranks focused on the nation's missile defense and communications systems built with sensitive U.S. technology.

Capt. Chiang was based in the north of Taiwan where the military houses their Lockheed Martin and Raytheon-supplied Patriot missiles along with the island's early warning radar system.

In addition, local media reports translated by the AFP in Taipei said that a retired Taiwanese agent from the Ministry of Justice Investigation Bureau is in police custody for allegedly luring his colleagues to China under the pretext of traveling or doing business. They were then forcibly detained and interrogated on sensitive information, said the Chinese-language United Daily News.

Inside information on Taiwan serves China's long-standing resolve to take back the nation by military force if necessary. The successfully modern island off the southeast coast of China remains independent and resistant to reunification with the mainland since a civil war 63 years ago.

Last year, the Taiwanese army's head of communications and information was also arrested on the charge of spying for China. Taiwanese news reported that Maj. Gen. Lo Hsieh-che was recruited by a Chinese female spy in Bangkok while he was stationed in Thailand. He gave strategic secrets to Beijing and has now been sentenced to life in prison.

The Taiwan defense ministry said at the time that the Maj. Gen. was unlikely to have had access to U.S.-related intelligence. However, as a high-ranking officer he had documents regarding the purchase of the Po Sheng command and control system from American defense contractor Lockheed Martin.

The Po Sheng provides branches of the Taiwanese forces with a shared communication network that is crucial for coordinating military action.

In the event that China launches an attack on Taiwan for not ceding its independence, which China views as rebellious, the Chinese would want to know how to make their target as vulnerable as possible.

Having access to data on Taiwan's radar-enabled missile defenses and communications system would give China a crippling upper hand, as gaining control of the electromagnetic spectrum is a major asset in modern warfare.

China’s People’s Liberation Army (PLA) in turn is now proceeding to India’s moves by undertaking its own build-up of offensive airpower capabilities stretching from eastern Ladakh all the way up to the India-Nepal border adjacent to the southwestern portion of the Tibet Autonomous Region.

It means that
A) the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) will realise its tactical objectives on the ground by resorting to massed fire-assaults (against forward-deployed Indian ground forces) delivered by a numerically superior deployed force comprising tactical non-line-of-sight battlefield support missiles (NLOS-BSM) and long-range multi-barrel rocket launchers (MBRL) capable of firing rockets equipped with sensor-fuzed munitions (SGM);
B ) such rocket artillery-based weapons would be employed for the ‘deep battlespace’ in tactical areas that are ideally suited for deployment of such weapons, i.e. the flat, locational deserts around eastern Ladakh and the foothills opposite Uttarakhand State;
C) while increased use will be made of NLOS-BSMs and tactical ballistic missiles (TBM) to neutralise the Indian Air Force’s (IAF) offensive airpower generation capacities that would be located in Jammu & Kashmir (J & K), the PLA Air Force’s (PLAAF) manned combat aircraft backed up by AEW & C platforms would be employed for blunting/neutralising any localised ground offensives (during the contact battle phase) that could be mounted by the Indian Army.

Presently, the IAF’s Western Air Command (WAC) can deploy some 150 combat aircraft of various types within air bases located inside J & K, these being Adampur (capable of housing Mirage 2000Hs, MiG-29B-12s and Jaguar IS), Awantipura (MiG-21 Bisons, MiG-29B-12s and Jaguar IS), Pathankot (MiG-21 Bisons and MiG-27UPGs), Srinagar (Su-30MKIs, MiG-21 Bisons and MiG-27UPGs), Udhampur (MiG-21 Bisons), Leh (MiG-29B-12s and Su-30MKIs) and Thoise (Su-30MKIs)

This continues to be one of the worries I have and no one has explained to me how we will survive a surprise missile barrage.

Unless our assets have solid cover to withstand the initial surprise attack we will be in trouble.

and we need lots more Brahmos to hit back at everything they possess - not 10s and 20s.

Chinese censors have blocked internet content speculating a military coup amid reports of serious power struggle within the ruling Chinese Communist Party (CCP) that threatens to disrupt a smooth transition of power when its general secretary and President Hu Jintao completes his term later this year.

The struggle has come to the fore after the party's Chongqing city head Bo Xilai was removed from his post as his deputy had reportedly sought asylum in the US. Bo, who is a CCP founding member's son, was a contender for the party's top post.