Indian Army: News & Discussion

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sum
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by sum »

Lots of stories on the 1971 war in this time WEEK edition. Ream them all:
When freedom triumphed
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by SBajwa »

President presents standars to five regiments.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111128/main5.htm

Patiala, November 27
The President of India, Pratibha Devi Singh Patil, presented the “Standards” to five regiments of 1 Armoured Division at an impressive ceremony held at the Black Elephant Division, here today.

The regiments that got the rare honour of “Standards” are the 5 Armoured Regiment, 6 Lancers, 70 Armoured Regiment, 73 Armoured Regiment and 74 Armoured Regiment.

An impressive ceremony witnessed the participation of as many as 132 tanks in the parade, which was applauded with a standing ovation.

The ceremony was attended by the Chief of Army Staff General VK Singh, Punjab Governor Shivraj Patil, Minister of State for External Affairs Preneet Kaur, Punjab Technical Education Minister Surjit Kumar Jiani and many senior defence officers.

In her speech, Patil congratulated the five regiments and said, “Your performance has always been exemplary. All the five regiments have put in untiring efforts in pursuit of excellence and have shown selfless devotion, professionalism and bravery in the face of adversity. The nation is proud of you and as a token of appreciation for your dedication, I take pride in presenting you with the Standards. The history of the regiments, spanning over 44 years, is replete with examples of heroism, professionalism and devotion to duty in the highest traditions of the Indian Army. The services of your regiments have always been held in high esteem."

Notably, "Standards" are considered to be a symbol of the spirit of the unit and a link with its glorious past. In India, the President's Standards are presented to the unit by the President and are a sign of recognition of the distinguished service rendered by the recipient unit.

The function commenced with the ceremonial national salute to the President, which was followed by a parade inspection. The "Standards" were then presented by Patil to the Colonel of regiments and the Commanding Officers of the Armoured regiments.

Sidelights

* One of the five regiments to be awarded the "Standards" from the President, included the 73 Armoured Regiment, which has the unique distinction of having been raised on December 3, 1971 - the day the 1971 Indo-Pak war started.
* Many high-profile personalities from Punjab, including CM Parkash Singh Badal and PPCC president Capt Amarinder Singh, could not attend the ceremony on account of prior engagements.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

If one remembers, five regiments from the 31st Armored Division were also presented standards. What is important to note is that in both the cases, the regiments were equipped with T-90. Now, this makes me beleive that in the first go, 5 of 6 armored regiments in each of the armored division is equipped with T-90 while the other is with T-72.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by SBajwa »

rohitvats.
Check this other news too


http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111128/main6.htm

Young cavaliers earn their spurs
Vijay Mohan
Tribune News Service

Patiala, November 27
State-of-the-art T-90 tanks, 132 in all, from five armoured regiments, with Standards and pennants fluttering proudly, rumbled past the saluting dias, dipping their massive 125 mm guns in salute before the Supreme Commander of the Armed Forces here today. This marked an era of young units earning their spurs.

The oldest of these five units, 70 Armoured Regiment, is just 44 years old - very young as compared to some of the Army’s cavalry units whose history goes back over two centuries.

The regiment was raised on February 11, 1968 at Ahmednagar by late Brigadier R Christian as an anti-tank guided missile regiment, the first such outfit in the Army. It also has the distinction of being the first armoured regiment with a “mixed class” composition, drawing troops from various castes and religions.

The regiment took part in the 1971 Indo-Pak war on the western front and was deployed from Fazilka to the Rann of Kutch. It achieved its first tank kill on the Sabuna drain in the Fazilka sector on December 7, 1971. In 1975, the regiment handed over its missile equipment, along with some officers and other ranks to 15 Guards and was reorganised as a tank regiment, T-55 Tanks.

The 73 Armoured Regiment has the unique distinction of being raised during wartime, being formed on December 3, 1971, the day the Indo-Pak war broke out. It was raised at Vijay Lines, Ahmednagar, with a unique class composition of three martial communities, Sikhs, Rajputs and Kayam Khani Muslims.

The Regimwent’s crest comprises crossed lances with the “Sheesh Kavach” of the legendary Prithviraj Chauhan. The Sheesh displays his temporal powers while the Kavach exhibits his skill at using arms.

It has participated in Operation Trident, Rakshak, Vijay and Parakram and has also performed exceedingly well in deserts, thereby earning the sobriquet “The Desert Rats”. The regiment has won two Vir Chakras.

The 74 Armoured Regiment was raised on June 1, 1972 at Ahmednagar by Lieutenant Colonel KS Khajuria.

The class composition of the regiment is Sikhs, Ahirs and Dogras, with its regimental badge comprising a tank hull with a mailed fist on it representing the punch of armour. It has participated in all major operations since and has been awarded one Shaurya Chakra and four Sena Medals.

The 5 Armoured Regiment was raised at Jodhpur on December 1, 1983 under the command of then Lt Col JPS Hanspal. It has the distinction of being the first unit to convert to T-90S tanks. It has served in Operation Trident, Vijay, Parakram and Kosi Prahar, besides numerous other operations including aid to civil authorities.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

SBajwa sahab, many thanx. I'm veering towards an opinion that IA has managed to move out T-55 from its armored regiments while retaining the T-72. Awaiting some more info on the same from d_berwal. But the best part is, it seems that IA did not equip the famed Cavalry and Horse Regiments first with T-90 as one might would have thought.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by d_berwal »

rohitvats wrote:SBajwa sahab, many thanx. I'm veering towards an opinion that IA has managed to move out T-55 from its armored regiments while retaining the T-72. Awaiting some more info on the same from d_berwal. But the best part is, it seems that IA did not equip the famed Cavalry and Horse Regiments first with T-90 as one might would have thought.
well there was a great push for famed regiments to covert but some one had the brains to think what is right for country with limited resources.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

Ha ha, dberwal, please dont make me laugh so hard!

Limited resources? Apparently there are enough resources for us to do scams worth LAKHS of crores. Enough to provide subsidies on every other thing, from diesel, to hajj travel, so much so that something like 90% of government expenditure goes in salaries and subsidies.

Just this evening an Andhra Cadre mid level IAS officer has been arrested for causing loss worth thousands of crores through alleged corrupt disbursal of mining licenses... and this is just ONE IAS officer, with only 20 years of service. What are you talking about scarce resources? :roll:

We are a proverbial golden bird, still being looted with wanton abandon!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by d_berwal »

Sir, Laughing is good for ones health so i take it as a compliment even if u didn't mean it that way.

recourse are only for the elite class not of rest of us to plunger on.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

Sir, I forgot to add, Govt of India apparently has 30000 crores which it plans to plunge into saving the dustbin which is Air India. I wish they would throw some of that money into properly equipping and paying the army!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by d_berwal »

ASPuar wrote:Sir, I forgot to add, Govt of India apparently has 30000 crores which it plans to plunge into saving the dustbin which is Air India. I wish they would throw some of that money into properly equipping and paying the army!
i second you on that... i am more worried about equipment than pay as i feel people in IA still work for Izzat than pay.

30000 cr = 2000 Arjun's @ 15 cr a piece

and no one is raising a question.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ASPuar »

Just because people work for izzat doesnt mean you pay them badly.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by d_berwal »

ASPuar wrote:Just because people work for izzat doesnt mean you pay them badly.
I didnt mean that but what is the price for some one who is ready to lay down his life without a question for a command/ order ? no benchmark..... its an endless debate!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Please not to mention al-parasito.....they make my BP go high!!!!!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

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Post by Gaur »

Exercise Sudarshan Shakti: Army tests new weapons

http://www.mid-day.com/news/2011/dec/01 ... eapons.htm
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Post by jagbani »

Another retired senior officer, Lt Gen Avadesh Prakash has been found guilty on three counts by an army court on Saturday in the Sukna land scam involving transfer of 71 acres of land adjacent to the military station in West Bengal.

http://www.punjabkesari.in/punjab/fulls ... 50_161214-
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Expressbuzz
The unspoken social contract
Vir Sanghvi
At the heart of the relationship between the Indian Army and the people of India lies a mystery. It is a mystery so deep that even though the most brilliant scholars have spent decades trying to find a solution, none of their answers has been entirely convincing.

Here’s the mystery: the Indian Army, as we know it, was carved out of the army of pre-Partition, undivided India. Therefore, it has the same heritage and history (except for the last few decades) as the Pakistani and Bangladeshi armies, which were also set up by the British during the Raj. Until recently, officers in the Indian Army had even served with their counterparts in the Pakistani Army in the days before Partition.

But while the Pakistani and Bangladeshi armies have demonstrated a thirst for political power, the Indian Army has remained resolutely apolitical. Generals have run both Bangladesh and Pakistan. But no Indian General has ever come close to accessing political power.

What’s more, no Indian General has seemed remotely interested in becoming this country’s military dictator.

Why should this be so? Why should the Indian Army remain content to take orders from civilian politicians when its counterparts across the border are so eager to grab power for themselves?

It can’t be that our soldiers are merely following the British tradition. In that case, the Pakistani Army should never have left its barracks. It isn’t that our soldiers have enormous respect for their civilian masters. Give an army officer two pegs of a good whiskey, and he will tell you, in colourful language, how much contempt he has for the politicians who run our country.

Nor is it that we have kept the army out of domestic affairs. We use the army frequently to fight insurrections — in Nagaland, Mizoram, Punjab and Kashmir. Even when a riot rages out of control, the cry goes out: ‘Send in the army’.

It could be that Indian democracy is stronger than the kind of democracy practiced by our neighbours. But even when democratic rights have been suspended and an authoritarian regime has taken control of India — as happened with the Emergency — the Army has shown no interest in getting
involved with the running of the country.

I have no solutions of my own to offer and the Army’s unwillingness to leave its barracks must remain a mystery. But what I know is this: there exists an unspoken social contract between the Indian Army and the people.

Basically, this consists of an agreement on our part to protect, indulge, admire, pamper and respect the Indian Army. In turn, the Army will do its own thing until we need it to save our bacon. Then, it will leave its barracks, clear out the Golden Temple, restore order to Bombay or Delhi, throw infiltrators and invaders out of Kargil, and guarantee the security and integrity of India.

Our part of the deal is that we will protect the Army from political interference. Except for a brief patch in the early ’60s, when Krishna Menon was defence minister, army promotions have not been unduly influenced by politicians. The chiefs are given free rein to do pretty much as they please. When the army forcefully expresses a demand (for pay revisions, better facilities etc) it usually gets its own way.

Also part of the deal is that Indians will hold the Army in the highest esteem. We will treat it as the one institution that has not been affected by the moral decline of Indian society. We may be prepared to criticise the paramilitary forces, and to accept that their men have committed human rights violations. But we will never accept that this could be true of the Indian Army.

Equally, we will never blame the Army for anything. In 1962, we were thrashed by the Chinese but the consensus was that politicians had lost the war while our brave soldiers had done their best. The 1965 war was at best a stalemate (the Pakistanis also claimed they had won) but we treated it as a glorious victory for the Indian Army. Operation Blue Star was a fiasco. But even today, it is Blue Star we remember favourably rather than Black Thunder (conducted by the paramilitary forces to clean up the mess left behind by Blue Star), a bona fide success.

By and large, the social contract has worked. The Army has nearly always got us out of jams when we need its services. Whether it was Delhi in 1984, Bombay in 1993, or Gujarat in 2002, we needed the Army to restore order. And during the Kargil War, young officers led from the front, sacrificed their lives and displayed astonishing bravery in the service of their country.

Consequently, the army sometimes appears to live in a state within a state. Visit a cantonment and you will be struck by the contrast with the civilian part of the town or city where it is located. The roads will be broad and well-maintained, the buildings will be freshly painted, the surroundings will be clean, and an air of good manners and civility will prevail. Visit an army town (Wellington, for instance) and the contrast will be even more striking. The order and cleanliness of the cantonments serves as a contrast to the chaos and filth of modern India.

There is, however, one important aspect of the social contract that now seems to be failing. As corruption has spread in modern India, we have reluctantly accepted that most parts of our society are tainted — civil servants, the schools and even the lower judiciary. But somehow, we have always believed that the army is different.

Oh yes, we hear the stories. We hear about Generals who take kickbacks on arms deals and about officers involved in canteen purchase scandals. But because this corruption appears to be restricted to the Army itself and because we believe that it is not widespread, we are happy to look the other way.
The problem with the Adarsh scandal and controversies over other land deals that have erupted recently is that they encroach into the civilian space. Senior army officers are seen to be conniving with politicians, bureaucrats and contractors to make millions.

Worse still, at least in the case of the Adarsh scandal, there is a cynical abuse of the social contract. When we say that we will respect and pamper the army, we do not expect senior officers to grab flats for themselves in the name of Kargil martyrs.

Earlier this week, the Army chief spoke about his resolve to cleanse his force. I am not sure he fully grasps how serious the situation is. The problem is not just that there are ‘a few bad apples’ in the army.

It is that Army corruption has now spilled out into the civilian space and that Generals are making big bucks by exploiting the regard we have for the heroism of the Army and the sacrifices made by its soldiers.

If more such instances come to light, then the press will begin looking critically at the Army. The politicians will have an excuse to delve deep into the workings of the officer corps. This will give them the opportunity they need to play favourites. And the public, regretfully recognising that the Army has breached the social contract itself, will reluctantly acquiesce in the muck-raking by the press and the interference by politicians.

Once this happens, the social contract will not survive. The image of the Army will not recover. And the perfect balance we have built between the Army and the Indian people will topple over.

So, the Army must urgently look at itself. It must crack down on corruption, identify the guilty men and act swiftly against them. It must do so now. Because too much is at stake. And tomorrow will be too late.
Exclusive to TNSE.
More at www.virsanghvi.com.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Bala Vignesh »

^^ Don't know what to say about this article except that the author got his ending perfectly correct.. If the Army wants to save itself from favoritism (attempts have already started), then they need to purge themselves of these "bad apples"..
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by chetak »

Bala Vignesh wrote:^^ Don't know what to say about this article except that the author got his ending perfectly correct.. If the Army wants to save itself from favoritism (attempts have already started), then they need to purge themselves of these "bad apples"..
vir is trying hard to rehabilitate himself after his little contretemps with radia.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Gentlemen,

Ravi Rikhye from Orbat.Com has written a book on IA Orbat called "Indian Army Order of Battle".

It is available online at amazon in paperback or e-book form (kindle edition). Please check here:http://www.amazon.com/Indian-Order-Batt ... 0982054173. It is all for USD 20 or USD 7.

I have a soft copy of the book and can assure you that it is an excellent source of orbat (all from public sources) along with a fair bit of history (and interesting tid-bits). I would reccomend the same. It is a good primer on the subject.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by aniket »

Why is it in all news reports that Operation Sudarshan Shakti is termed as the biggest War game in the history of the Indian Army when Operation BrasstacKs had the most number of troops deployed ?
I believe that Operation Brasstacks was the biggest war-games according to different reports.
On what basis are these exercises termed as big or small,is it the no.of troops deployed or armored vehicles etc.?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by wig »

Engineer regiments procuring micro-UAVs
The Army’s engineer regiments are to be equipped with micro-unmanned aerial vehicles (micro-UAVs), something similar in size and shape to the flying gadget developed by engineering student Joy Lobo in the film ‘Three Idiots’.

Referred to as Aerial Engineer Recce Equipment (AERE), these are stated to be in the process of indigenous development. They would be capable of being remotely operated on a pre-fed way point, transmitting real-time video from high-resolution cameras. They can take off and land vertically, enabling their use in any kind of terrain and space.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20111206/nation.htm#4
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Sanku »

aniket wrote:Why is it in all news reports that Operation Sudarshan Shakti is termed as the biggest War game in the history of the Indian Army when Operation BrasstacKs had the most number of troops deployed ?
Because Brass-Tacks was not a war game :twisted:
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Vivek K »

^^^ Sankuji, care to elaborate?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Ankit Desai »

There was talk about operation BrasstacKs that, corp commander went out of Military constrains and took process in hand with all intention to march west in to pak. All alarm bells went off, top brass in Army HQ intervene to stop it and keep it as exercise.

And rest is History as Indian Prime minister Rajiv Gandhi and self-appointed President General Zia-ul-Haq involved in Cricket diplomacy to resolve this issue towards a peaceful end.

Note:- last paragraph is from wiki.

-Ankit
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by SSridhar »

At last, Army's modernization quest set to take off
The Army's long wait to buy light utility helicopters and ultra-light field guns appears to end as the government has cleared a move to alter a key provision in the requirement and referred the issue of field guns to the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

Sources in the Defence Ministry said one of the clauses of the service requirement was the ‘cold soak test,' which required the contenders to park the machines at a height of more than 5,000 metres overnight and start them up the next morning. This test could not be carried through. One of the reasons is that hardly is there any helipad at those icy heights. There were a couple of other issues which the contenders had to sort out. Now that the amended requirement has been given the nod, the stage is set for opening the commercial bids, leading to the start of negotiations.

Meanwhile, the Ministry has asked DRDO Chief V.K. Saraswat to prepare a report on ultra-light howitzers, which are being procured from the U.S. through the Foreign Military Sales (government-to-government) route. In January last, the U.S. Department of Defense sent a notification to Congress on the possible sale of 145 M777 Howitzer, a towed 155-mm artillery piece, with Laser Inertial Artillery Pointing Systems, costing roughly $647 million. These guns are being made by BAE Systems.

The government opted for the direct route after the initial plan for a competitive bidding ran aground following allegations of corruption against one of the contenders. The Defence Ministry put procurement from the firm on hold. However, another note reached the Ministry later, raising questions about need for such a gun :?: that could be transported across mountains by being slung under a helicopter.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

So how did the cold soak non-requirement sneak into the specs? Looks like an over specing going on.

Same with whoever rasied that question about need for the ULH. Was that an effort to delay the procurement? Did that person or dept have a stake in the decision or was it gratuitous interfering?
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Can you expect to see MMS do that? Not even if hell freezes.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Yes. Conduct an Ayushya Mukti exercise and check it out.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Shrinivasan »

ramana wrote:
SSridhar wrote:Sudarshan Shakti aims to transform armed forces[/url]
Can you expect to see MMS do that? Not even if hell freezes.
Care to explain this Ramana? MMS is still the PM, under his helm there has been a quantum jump in capabilities of the armed forces on multiple fronts...
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Philip »

I agree,our Field (mouse) Marshal is doing his best to transform them indeed...into a branch of the US armed forces!

How? By buying mainly American wares. C-17s,C-130Js,P-8s,Apaches and now light artillery pieces and towed artillery-all by the dozens mind you,"wholesale" deals,pun intended reflecting the manner in which the country is being sold out. The first step in "meshing" the Indian armed forces to that of the US and becoming a vassal "ally" is for both to have similar weapon systems in service so that the overall commander will be another "Eisenhower" and through NCW,our eqpt. will serve a foreign master!

It is only in areas where the US is unable to provide alternatives or not willing at all to provide us with the required tech,like nuclear subs,nuclear reactor tech,strategic and tactical missile/rocketry tech,etc.,that we have to depend upon "old friends" like Russia,Europe and a old/new one,Israel,with whom we have had an on-off relationship over the decades.W would be deluding ourselves if we imagine that the US wants to engage with us on equal gounds.What it has in mind is to quickly find a new "rent-boy" in the region,as lover-boy Pak is playing the devil with it,fornicating with ungodlies.This would be the heights of ambition for our Field (mouse) Marshal,who has never been afraid of selling the nation lock,stock and barrel,"retail" or "wholesale"!
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by ramana »

Shrinivasan,
I guess you haven't read the news report. Please do so and it will be self evident.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Sanju »

rohitvats wrote:Gentlemen,

Ravi Rikhye from Orbat.Com has written a book on IA Orbat called "Indian Army Order of Battle".

It is available online at amazon in paperback or e-book form (kindle edition). Please check here:http://www.amazon.com/Indian-Order-Batt ... 0982054173. It is all for USD 20 or USD 7.

I have a soft copy of the book and can assure you that it is an excellent source of orbat (all from public sources) along with a fair bit of history (and interesting tid-bits). I would reccomend the same. It is a good primer on the subject.
Rohitvats, It would be good if you review the book on the Amazon site as people do look at the reviews before purchasing it.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by member_20069 »

Sanku wrote:
aniket wrote:Why is it in all news reports that Operation Sudarshan Shakti is termed as the biggest War game in the history of the Indian Army when Operation BrasstacKs had the most number of troops deployed ?
Because Brass-Tacks was not a war game :twisted:
Was Zia bluffing or Porkis had capability in 1986?

If we chickened for this reason where in the world are we going to conduct any punitive action in present and in the future if there is any provocative action from across the border whether by state actors or non state actors given the fact they do now have established nuclear deterrent. It is ironic Porkis always bark and threaten to bite even if we dream of teaching them lesson and in case of China we chicken out at a mere growl, where as despite all provocations from both eastern and western frontiers we don't even snarl at them, let alone bite or even bark back at them. We have made historical mistakes when we could have corrected the course at least with Pakistan when we had a chance for present and future generations.
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by shiv »

SBHALLA wrote:
Was Zia bluffing or Porkis had capability in 1986?

If we chickened for this reason where in the world are we going to conduct any punitive action in present and in the future if there is any provocative action from across the border whether by state actors or non state actors given the fact they do now have established nuclear deterrent. It is ironic Porkis always bark and threaten to bite even if we dream of teaching them lesson and in case of China we chicken out at a mere growl, where as despite all provocations from both eastern and western frontiers we don't even snarl at them, let alone bite or even bark back at them. We have made historical mistakes when we could have corrected the course at least with Pakistan when we had a chance for present and future generations.
There is plenty of publicly available material on this - I have much of it archived on my HDD and I looked them up before posting this. By 1982 China had already shipped bomb grade Uranium and weapons designs to Pakistan. A Pakistani Defence Journal paper points out that between 1983 and 1990 Pakistan had conducted more than 20 cold tests and had test dropped nukes from F-16s.

From my personal viewpoint language like "growls" snarls" "chicken" etc are useful tools to communicate feelings, but ultimately I have still not figured out why it is bad to fear a nuclear attack or nuclear war. Would one be "snarling" if one issues a nuclear threat. Would one be chicken by avoiding nuclear war? I ask these questions seriously - but the questions come with a sting - I am ready to tear apart anyone who can justify the use of expressions like "snarl" growl and chicken while talking of nuclear war and still make sense after I am done with tearing up the arguments.

In my personal experience a large number of comments about Indian reactions to China and Pakistan are based on a fundamental feeling held by a large number of Indians that India is first and foremost a weak nation, and secondly incompetent and corrupt to boot.

I am not saying that this belief is wrong. Let me accept that India is weak, corrupt and incompetent. But hearing that from hundreds of Indian hundreds of times is what gets my goat. Do educated Indians believe that nobody else knows? Do they believe that constantly comparing China with a tiger and India with a chicken actually helps? Why do Indians keep on repeating the same well known well accepted and widely recognized stuff about Indian weakness? It this constant repetition with no realization that most educated people in India already know also a sign of fundamental Indian lack of insight? Do Indian have to tell each other for ever that India is weak when that has been perfectly clear to Indians for decades? Or does every Indian who gets an education believe that only he and he alone knows that India is weak and that he must announce that to the world like Archimedes jumping out from a bath shouting "Eureka"?

Are Indians really so dumb that they cannot go one step beyond pointing out that Indians behave weak? I have seen this for over 20 years and I have also seen young Indians claim that they will change. Those young Indian are now middle aged and I see them sitting on their asses saying the same things they said 20 years ago while the youngsters of today are saying "India is weak" like its some new discovery they have made.

Fact: India is weak. Or at least a lot of Indians claim that it is weak and love talking about it as if only they know
Fact: No Indian is able to do anything about it other than saying "India is weak". Few Indians are even able to analyse reasons for Indian weakness or perceived weakness. Blind belief in Indian weakness. There is no God but God and weakness is his name.

After decades of observing this I can make one more observation about Indians. They are often repetitive bores who are unable to step out of the box they have somehow gotten themselves in. The "solutions" offered to Indian weaknesses are always what other Indians are supposed to do, but no one is actually able to implement those solution, because other Indians are incorrigible Who is the incompetent guy then? We are all part of this round table of incompetent bums. I am in it too. Not "other Indians".

Maybe we just need to look at the world a little differently. We are weak. Weak nations also survive like weak people survive. We just happen to have a lot more weak, incompetent and cowardly people than anyone else, that's all. Once we know what we have it gets easier to say what we can do and what we can't. Too much time is wasted in thinking that "someone else in India is weak. I am not weak. Let people like me/Sardar Patel rule". It ain't gonna happen. No point putting the cart before the horse. Most indians are weak cowards and that is why our rulers and the country is like this.
Pranav
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

shiv wrote:Most indians are weak cowards and that is why our rulers and the country is like this.
You put the cart before the horse. The saying is "Yatha Raja Tatha Praja".

Ordinary people who want to make a difference should do things like agitating against EVMs.
shiv
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by shiv »

manum
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Re: Indian Army: News & Discussion

Post by manum »

If you want to make a difference, you are no more ordinary...

See in India I think educating the masses about military is almost like sex education...Its not official in our text book, they know it as much they know it and however they know it...There needs to be official scientific myth busters...
Last edited by manum on 08 Dec 2011 09:11, edited 1 time in total.
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