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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013 15:07 
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Despite a ceasefire in place for several years, there are regular artillery, small arms and incursions by Pakistan. Recents events are not the first time skirmishes have occurred at the border/LOC; Arty clashes peaked in 1997-1998 which was followed by Kargil, followed soon by 2001/2002 escalation where this "War of Attrition" peaked to highest level ever.

We have discussed similar incidents earlier in multiple threads so creating a new one for focus.

Objective of this thread: India shares long and complex borders with multiple countries. This thread will collate news, information and discussion on security operations, artillery exchanges, incidents, bandobast (fencing etc) related topics on the following:

- Sir Creek
- IB with Pakistan
- LoC
- LAC
- India-Bhutan
- Bangladesh
- Myanmar
- Nepal
- Airspace

Aim is to create an archive to serve as ready reference in future.

Exclusions from this thread:

- High Level border dispute and dialogue
- Siachen & AGPL
- Counter Terror operations & COIN
- General issues and related to BSF and other agencies

Request mods to transfer posts from other threads here. Any suggestions are welcome.


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013 15:11 
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Thanks Addi for creating this thread.


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013 17:50 
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Fresh morning hot news...

Pakistan says soldier killed by Indian troops in Kashmir

http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/01/1 ... 9220130110

Quote:
Indian troops killed a Pakistani soldier on Thursday in the disputed region of Kashmir, the Pakistani army said, as the nuclear-armed neighbours traded blame over a string of attacks.

The soldier was killed by "unprovoked" Indian fire while manning a post in the Battal sector of Kashmir, which is split between the two sides by a heavily fortified border known as the Line of Control, the army spokesman said.

The two powers have denounced each other over a clash on Sunday, in which a Pakistani soldier was killed, and one on Tuesday in which two Indian soldiers were killed.


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013 18:20 
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Josy Joseph publishing somebody's hunch instead of proper research. Add to it references to Illyas Kashmiris legends ... nevertheless at least there is acknowledgement that this has been going for more than 20 years (if not more).

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 961775.cms

Quote:
NEW DELHI: Nobody wants to be on record, but many seasoned Pakistani watchers within the security establishment are beginning to suspect that Tuesday's attack on Indian soldiers may have been executed by the Special Services Group (SSG), the Pakistan army's commando unit. Reasons for this presumption are many — most important being that the one operation that has most parallels with the attack was a strike of February 2000, which was suspected to be an action by the SSG.

"I don't have any credible evidence to say for sure, but the way the operation was carried out, the beheading etc point fingers at the SSG," said a senior official in the security establishment. He said it had an uncanny resemblance to the February 27, 2000, operation, which was led by Ilyas Kashmiri, the dreaded terrorist commander who was killed recently in a US drone attack.

Though some dispute it, many in the Indian establishment believe Kashmiri was actually a member of the SSG when he carried out the raid. A second group has said that Kashmiri was working in tandem with SSG and not really a member of the commando unit. But all of them agree on Kashmiri's SSG training for his Afghan missions and later operations in Kashmir.

According to the Army, the Pakistani attackers were wearing black uniforms, which is a standard SSG outfit. Started in 1950s, SSG has had active role in most of the wars with India, and it has also played a key role in the mujahideen war against Russians in Afghanistan through the 1980s. SSG is known to have significant operations along the Indian border.

The 2000 raid was on Ashok Listening Post, a remote advance post that had already been identified vulnerable by the commanding officer of 17 Maratha Light Infantry. Seven Indian soldiers were killed, and sepoy Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar (24) was beheaded and his severed head taken back to PoK. Pakistani media has reported that Kashmiri paraded the head before Gen Pervez Musharraf and in the local town.

This time the attack came when three soldiers were part of a patrol party, close to LOC, and ahead of the fence. It is possible that the attackers lay in waiting through the night. In Tuesday's attack, they severed the head of one soldier, and tried to take the head of the other, but failed. They also took away the personal weapons of the two jawans. The third soldier escaped with injuries.

"It is almost a repeat of what happened in 2000," a second Kashmir hand said. He said the attackers were "either SSG members or terrorists".

A third source, who was involved in dealing with the 2000 attack, said the attack had an eerie resemblance to the 2000 attack and brought back memories of that raid. "But it could well be my hunch," he said.

However, there are two other probabilities. One, the attack was carried out by regular Pakistani soldiers. Second, it was an action by terrorists with the blessings of the Pakistani Army.

Whatever may be the scenario, and whoever may have carried out the attack, one thing is for sure in the Indian security establishment— that it was not possible without the active support of the local Pakistani Army unit.


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PostPosted: 10 Jan 2013 19:24 
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India’s unprovoked firing kills another Pakistan Army soldier

http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/national/10-Jan-2013/india-s-unprovoked-firing-kills-another-pakistan-army-soldier

from pakistani news


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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2013 22:24 
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A timeline for recent events:

Quote:
Indo - Pak tensions: The main developments so far

6 January:

* Islamabad accuses Indian troops of breaching the border and killing one of its soldiers

8 January:

* Pakistani soldiers sneak into Jammu and Kashmir and retreat after killing and beheading two Indian soldiers near the LoC in Poonch. The raiders took away one of the heads.

The brutal killings evoke widespread anger with India, with the Vishwa Hindu Parishad Thursday urging the government to snap diplomatic as well as trade links with Pakistan.

9 January:

* Pakistani Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar denies that Pakistan is behind the killings and offers that the incident be probed by a third party panel if India does not believe its 'internal probe'.

However Defence Minister AK Antony says India has proof that Pakistan was behind the attacks.

* India summons Pakistan High Commissioner Salman Bashir to lodge a protest about the incident, and is spoken to in 'strong words'. Speaking after the meeting Bashir says that both sides have agreed that the episode must not be allowed to escalate.

* The US calls on both sides to de-escalate tensions. "We all hope - our Pakistani and Indian partners - that we can maintain peace and stability in the region. The secretary (of defence) has affirmed that on visits throughout that region, including to India," Pentagon press secretary George Little told reporters.


10 January:

* Finance Minister P. Chidambaram rejects a Pakistani demand to let the UN probe the border clashes. But he gave no sign of how the government would respond to the beheading.

"We will not internationalise the issue nor go to the UN," he said.

* The funerals of the two soldiers killed along the Line of Control are held in their villages with full state honours.

* BJP leader Sushma Swaraj says her Bharatiya Janata Party would support the Congress-led government if it took "tough" decisions against Pakistan.

* Home Minister Sushilkumar Shinde says there will be no rethink on the liberalized visa agreement between India and Pakistan.

Pakistani officials add that they too will not rethink on the MFN status to be accorded to India.

* Cross Border trade grinds to a halt after Pakistan refuses to open gates For Indian Trucks Crossing the LoC. At least 25 fully loaded Indian trucks were not allowed to unload at the Chakan Da Bagh crossing in Poonch.



Add to the fact that there is a change in command in US.

John Kerry of the Kerry -Luger Bill that re-instates aid to TSP was appointed on Dec 21st 2012 as the new Secy of State for US.


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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2013 22:30 
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http://daily.bhaskar.com/article/NAT-TO ... 1-NOR.html

Quote:
.... The brutal killing and mutilation of two Indian soldiers has brought Pakistan’s ceasefire violation on international scene. Perhaps, this was the first in 2013, but if we look Pakistan’s last year’s record it is expected that this would not be the last. Official records confirm that Pakistan broke ceasefire agreement 117 times in 2012 alone, which is nearly two times it did in 2011.

The number of recorded ceasefire violations in 2012 stood at 117 as against 60 the year before and only 57 in 2010. Top Indian Army officials say that in December 2012 alone there has been as many as 10 cases of ceasefire violations along the LoC and four infiltration attempts by terrorists.

...


2010 - 57
2011 - 60
2012 - 117

Image


Last edited by Aditya G on 11 Jan 2013 22:35, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2013 22:31 
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In case we forget Pakistan is President of Security Council for this Month.


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PostPosted: 11 Jan 2013 23:19 
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Pakistani Barbarism At The Border ; INDIA TODAY

Quote:
You don’t need a machete. Once a soldier is shot dead, a boot is placed on his head and a combat knife is used to hack the head off. Watch the video of Daniel Pearl’s execution (the kidnapped Wall Street Journal reporter decapitated by militants in Karachi in 2001).” It’s a cold, clinical explanation from an Indian Army officer of how Pakistani soldiers may have decapitated two Indian soldiers they killed in a January 8 raid in Poonch, 80 km south west of state capital Srinagar.
.....
.....
But more worrying are raids by Pakistani Special Services Group (SSH) commandos organised into Border Action Teams (BATS)-dedicated forces tasked with crossing the LoC and killing Indian soldiers. The acronym is an Indian Army coinage and indicative of how frequent the raids are. bat raids, say Army officials, are not impulsive, but come after careful reconnaissance of vulnerable spots along the LoC.
.....
The 2003 ceasefire brought a lull in such incidents, but head-hunting raids are believed to have continued. In July 2011, Indian Army hushed up the brutal killing of Havildar Jaipal Singh Adhikari and Lance Naik Devender Singh of the Rajput regiment in Kupwara district. Their bodies were sent to their families in Uttarakhand in sealed caskets as they were “badly mutilated”, and cremated as such. Their deaths were attributed to a firefight with militants along the border.
Last August, a story began doing the rounds in the Indian Army messes. Officers whispered of a ferocious cross-border raid by Indian troops in J&K that killed several Pakistani soldiers. The story goes that it was retaliation for the July 2011 beheadings. The Indian Army flatly denies the July 2011 incident or any retaliation to it. No reports from Pakistan suggest that the incident had occurred.
.....
But there are indications an Indian retaliation is in the offing. “Not here, not now, but at a time and place of our choosing,” a senior Army official warns. It means the LoC is unlikely to be a quiet place anytime soon.


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 11:49 
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Image

Border Security Force soldiers patrol near the India-Pakistan International border, about 38 kms from Amritsar on January 13, 2013. (PTI)

I can see Tavor, Mauser SP66(?) and usual A-7 rifles

---

http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=786819

Quote:
Fresh Firing by Pak Troops in Poonch Ahead of Flag Meet
Jammu | New Delhi | Jan 13, 2013

Pakistani troops violated the ceasefire yet again firing at Indian posts in the Poonch sector of Jammu and Kashmir this evening even as the two sides prepared for a flag meeting of top commanders tomorrow to defuse tension along the Line of Control (LoC).

The fresh firing by Pakistan troops on Indian posts in Nangitikri forward area along LoC in Poonch district around 1630 hours today, came after heavy overnight firing in Krishnagati also in Poonch, an Army officer said.

The attack took place hours after Pakistan agreed for a Brigade Commander-level flag meeting, sought by India, along the LoC in Poonch to discuss the recent intrusion and brutal killing of jawans besides continued ceasefire violations by its soldiers that have flared up tension.

At the flag meeting, the Indian side is expected to strongly protest the Pakistani intrusion and the beheading of a soldier and demand the return of the severed head believed to have been carried by Pakistani army regulars as a trophy after the killing of two soldiers on January eight.

"Brigade Commanders' flag meeting is being held tomorrow at Chakan-Da-Bagh LoC point in Poonch sector of Jammu and Kashmir at noon," Public Relation Officer (PRO), Defence, Col R K Palta told PTI.

Pakistani posts opposite Nangitikri targeted the posts and the Indian troops retaliated, he said.

The exchange continued for a brief period before coming to a halt, he said, adding there was no loss of life or injury to anyone on the Indian side.

There was firing on five Indian posts --Kranti, Kripan, Gordha, Chajjaman and Dogra from Pakistan posts- Daku, Chooha, Roza and Battal. Mortars were fired intermittently from Pakistan side.

The ceasefire violation was the fourth by Pakistan troops along Poonch sector after the killing of two jawans.

On the overnight firing, Palta said movement of six to seven persons was detected close to LoC opposite Krishnagati sub-sector in Poonch sector around 2145 hours yesterday.

After 30 minutes, the group of suspected infiltrators disappeared, Palta said.

It is believed that either a group of militants or Border Action Team (BAT) could have been undertaking movement close to LoC opposite Krishnagati sub-sector in Poonch.

Pakistani troops had also violated the ceasefire by firing mortars shells and from small arms on Indian posts along LoC in Krishnagati sector of Poonch district from 5 PM to 9.30 PM on Thursday.

Indian troops had retaliated resulting in the exchange of fire. There was no casuality or injury to any one in the Pak firing.

"The border with Pakistan is tense but the situation is under control along the Line of Control in Jammu and Kashmir. The Army is maintaining utmost vigilance along the border with Pakistan," the spokesman said.

Pakistan agreed for the flag meeting in a communication through a hotline in the sector, he said, adding, "We had sought the flag meeting of the brigade commanders of the two sides."

The Indian Army had sent a hotline message to the Pakistan Army on January 11 and asked for a flag meeting to discuss the issues of brutal killing of two jawans by Pakistani troops, reportedly belonging to 29 Baloch Regiment, and increasing incidents of firing and ceasefire violations in the Poonch sector.

Pakistan's High Commissioner Salman Bashir has already been summoned in Delhi by Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai who lodged a strong protest over the "highly provocative" Pakistani Army action in which the two soldiers were killed and their bodies subjected to "barbaric and inhuman mutilation".

Confidence Building Measures (CMBs) of cross-LoC trade and travel are also expected to come up for discussion during the flag meeting.

Pakistan has suspended cross-LoC trade and travel at Chakan-Da-Bagh crossing point in Poonch sector since Thursday and Friday respectively.

Tomorrow's Brigade Commander-level flag meeting is the second one in the last six months between the two sides.

The last one was held at Chakan-Da-Bagh LoC point on June 23 following the killing of two Indian soldiers and injuries to four other jawans in ceasefire violations by Pakistani troops. Cross-LoC trade and travel via Chakan-Da-Bagh was also suspended.

Jammu and Kashmir has witnessed 71 incidents of cross- border firing and ceasefire violations along the Indo-Pak border in which seven persons, including four security personnel were killed and 15 others were injured last year.

There were 51 cases of cross-border firing and ceasefire violations in 2011 as compared to 44 cases registered in 2010 and 28 in 2009 .

Emerging story. Watch this space for updates as more details come in
FILED ON: Jan 13, 2013 14:40 IST , EDITED ON: Jan 13, 2013 14:40 IST


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 13:59 
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Facts and numbers ...

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 89317.aspx

Quote:
.... Monday's Brigade Commander-level flag meeting is the second one in the last six months between the two sides.

The last one was held at Chakan-Da-Bagh LoC point on June 23 following the killing of two Indian soldiers and injuries to four other jawans in ceasefire violations by Pakistani troops. Cross-LoC trade and travel via Chakan-Da-Bagh was also suspended.

Jammu and Kashmir has witnessed 71 incidents of cross-border firing and ceasefire violations along the Indo-Pak border in which seven persons, including four security personnel were killed and 15 others were injured last year.

There were 51 cases of cross-border firing and ceasefire violations in 2011 as compared to 44 cases registered in 2010 and 28 in 2009.


http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 88861.aspx

Quote:
...

While New Delhi is fuming over the beheading, this spiral of violence has been played in the past with both armies trying to balance the numbers. In July 2011, an infiltrator and cross-border source of the Pakistan army was killed in Keran sector of Kashmir by the Indian army. The Pakistan army’s reply was swift as two troopers of 20 Kumaon regiment — Jaipal Singh Adhikari and Devender Singh — were beheaded. The Indian army apparently kept quiet and waited for an opportune moment. Three months later, heads of three Pakistani soldiers went missing with Islamabad lodging a protest with New Delhi on the alleged killing. In August, 2003, Pakistani troops ambushed an Indian patrol in Nowshera sector and killed four troops of the Jat regiment. The intruders beheaded one soldier and took his light machine gun. A month later, nine Pakistani soldiers were killed in the same sector with heads of two missing. On February 27, 2000, Sepoy Bhausahed Maruti Talekar of Maratha Light Infantry was beheaded by Pakistani troops in Jangad in Rajouri sector but curiously a ranking pan-Islamic jihadist, Ilyas Kashmiri of Al Qaeda, was given credit with Islamabad displaying the badge and weapon of the solider in a macabre display. ....


http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 89069.aspx

Quote:
As tension prevails along the Indo-Pak border, more than 2,500 militants are getting ready in different terrorist camps at Pakistan-occupied-Kashmir and waiting for opportunities to cross over to India.
Intelligence reports indicate that there were 42 militants camps functioning across the borders of which 25 are in PoK and 17 in other parts of Pakistan where the 2,500 militants were getting ready with training, arms and ammunition, sources in home ministry said.

Besides, at least 90 Pakistani infiltrators entered India through the Indo-Pak border this year. At least 125 militants were also apprehended along the border in Jammu and Kashmir while trying to infiltrate into India.

The huge jump in the number of Pakistani infiltrators-- from 63 in 2011 to 90 this year -- sent alarm bells ringing in the home ministry, which directed security agencies to intensify vigil along the border.

Altogether 94 Pakistani infiltrators have entered into India in 2010 and 69 in 2009 through the Indo-Pak border.

There have been a total of 249 infiltration attempts this year as against 247 last year. There were 489 infiltration attempts in 2010, 485 in 2009, 342 in 2008 and 535 in 2007.


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 14:44 
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[quote="Aditya G"]Image

First pic with the Beretta MX-4 Storm, praji ready to pounce, however no indications of a weapons sight on it.


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PostPosted: 14 Jan 2013 15:19 
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^^ A true arms baazar we have out here!


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2013 08:54 
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Septimus P. wrote:
Aditya G wrote:
Image
First pic with the Beretta MX-4 Storm, praji ready to pounce, however no indications of a weapons sight on it.
Looks like BSF and IA have stepped up aggressive patrolling.. normal patrol posse would be couple of Jawans... what we are seeing here is almost a dozen...still wonder why these poor guys are not provided with a gypsy/willis /mahindra jeep for their patrols?


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PostPosted: 12 Jun 2013 21:28 
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KG sector flares up again ... plus data points

http://www.kashmirtimes.com/newsdet.aspx?q=18258

Quote:
Pak violates truce on LoC yet again
Intermittent firing continues in Mankote sector
ANUBHAV MISRI


POONCH/MENDHAR, June 11: After killing a Junior Commissioned Officer (JCO) in Mankote sector on June 7, the Pakistan army today again breached truce along LoC Tuesday afternoon, second time in last 24 hours and targeted few Indian forward posts in KG Sector in Mendhar tehsil of Poonch district.

Though as per sources Indian side too responded in equal measure yet officially the army stated that Indian troops opened fire this afternoon only and the response was `calibrated.’ So far there were no reports of loss of life or property from any side.

According to officiating Defence PRO S N Acharya, Pakistani troops fired on Indian posts along the Line of Control (LoC) in Poonch district late Monday night and on Tuesday afternoon using small fire arms.

“Pakistan troops opened small arms firing on Indian posts in Nangi Tekri forward area along LoC in Krishnagati sub-sector of Poonch last night around 8.10 PM and today around 1.10 PM. The firing continued for 10 minutes from 8.10 PM to 8.20 PM on Monday but it continued for over one hour on Tuesday afternoon. Troops guarding the borderline did not retaliate on Monday yet today Indian side did retaliate and the response was calibrated,” Acharya said, adding there was no loss of life or injury to anyone in the firing.

Sources said that Pakistan army violated ceasefire and targetted four Indian forward posts in Mankote sector of Mendhar tehsil in Poonch district.

Army sources confirming the ceasefire violation said that last night Pakistan troops violated cease fire and opened fire on Indian forward posts. But Indian troops guarding fence didn’t retaliate as Pakistan army stopped firing after 10 minutes.
Army sources informed that this afternoon at around 1.00 PM, the troops of Pakistan army (655 Mujahid) resorted to unprovoked firing on Indian forward posts along LoC in Mankote sector.

“Pak troops targetted forward Indian posts Kranti 1, Kranti 2, Ghoda, Kirpan, Nagi Tekri. Indian troops (3 Grenadiers) guarding Indian forward posts after exercising restraint for some time opened fire on Roza, Battal and Daku posts of Pakistan in a befitting manner. The firing continued till 2.20 PM,” sources added.

This was the third incident of ceasefire violation in June in Poonch district. On June 7, a Junior Commissioned Officer (JCO) was killed when Pakistan troops opened heavy fire with automatic weapons and rockets on Indian posts along the LoC in Mandi sector of Poonch district.

Earlier, on May 27, Pakistani troops had pounded Indian posts along the LoC in the Poonch sector with rockets.

KT CORRESPONDENT FROM MENDHAR ADDS:

Pakistan troops resorted to unprovoked firing on three Indian forward posts twice in last 24 hours in Krishna Ghati sub-sector.
According to intelligence sources, on Monday night, the troops of 655 Mujahid of Pakistan opened fire at 10 PM violating truce and the firing continued till 11.00 PM. Pak troops used rockets, mortars, LMG and HMG to target Indian forward posts of Nangi Tekri, Kirpan and Kranti. Indian side after exercising restraint for some time too responded in equal measure targeting Pakistan posts Daku, Bhattal and Roza.

“This afternoon yet again they opened fire from Daku, Bhattal and Roza posts at around 1310 hours and the firing continued till 1420 hours.Indian side too responded with full might. However there was no report of injury or loss of life,” the sources added.
In KG Sector only, this was the fifth incident of ceasefire violation since March, 2013. Besides two consecutive incidents of ceasefire violation on June 10 and June 11, Pakistan troops had breached truce on May 31 and twice in the month of March, 2013.


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2013 10:16 
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http://www.kashmirlife.net/exchange-of- ... er-killed/

Quote:
A Pakistan army man was killed and another was injured when Indian and Pakistani troops exchanged firing on the Line of Control (LoC).

The incident took place in Poonch, area of Jammu division on Saturday.

According to army sources, Pakistani troops used mortars and RPG to fire on an Indian post in the Kerni area of the Poonch sector on the Line of Control (LoC).

India and Pakistan always exchange firing on the LoC and allege one another of violating the ceasefire which is in place from more than ten years.

Meanwhile quoting army sources, Pakistani media has reported the death of a soldier, Asim Iqbal in the firing incident. The reports said that another Pakistani soldier Naik Mohammad Khan was critically wounded.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 02:59 
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India speeds up Rs 80,000 crore plan for rail lines along the borders.

An ambitious Rs 80,000 crore plan to build railway lines along India's strategic frontiers is picking up speed. Railway and defence sources confirm that surveys have been completed on 10 key lines with most of the funding likely to come out of the railway budget. Working in tandem railways and the military have identified certain lines that must be given priority in construction.

The strategic lines include the Srinagar-Kargil-Leh railway line will cover a distance of more than 400 km cutting by half the current travel time of eight hours by road. Construction will take place at heights ranging from 6000 feet to 13,000 feet. Another line will connect the military hub of Pathankot with Leh, a distance of 278 km.

In the Northeast a line will connect Misamari in Dhemaji district of Assam to Tawang in Arunachal Pradesh, a distance of 320 km. Along with other lines in Rajasthan and Uttarakhand, the armed forces will be able to move troops and equipment faster in any emergency.

Working in tandem railways and the military have identified certain lines that must be given priority in construction.

The key issue is how soon construction can begin on these lines as weather could be a big impediment especially in Kashmir and Ladakh. Much would also depend on how soon money becomes available for the key projects.

India has been bolstering its infrastructure along the border with China to make the movement of troops and military equipments easier. While China has already built all weather roads to its border posts, most of the Indian posts on the Line of Actual Control with China can be accessed only on foot.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 10:02 
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5 soldiers killed by Paki scum in a night sneak attack on an Indian army post in the Poonch sector.Details unfolding.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 11:24 
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Seems like Kiyani is plotting for his extension and testing gen. Bikramjit in one shot, someone wants him out of job as Army chief. India needs a war, take control of j&k now. If I were him, I would not allow any bunkers in 5km, no matter what till my tenure ends. :twisted: don't care what GoI thinks or orders.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 11:35 
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http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 643027.cms

Quote:
JAMMU: Pakistani troops attacked an Indian post along the Line of Control in the Poonch sector in Jammu and Kashmir late on Monday night, killing five Indian soldiers.

Defence sources said on Tuesday the Pakistani soldiers intruded into the Indian territory past midnight and ambushed the Sarla post on the Indian side of the LoC.

...

The incident comes hours after a BSF jawan was injured in firing from across Indo-Pak border in Samba district of J&K.

"There was sniper firing from some persons at around 15:55 hours from Pakistan side along the international border (IB) at Narainpur border out post (BOP) area in Ramgarh sector," a senior BSF officer said.

Two rounds were fired from Pakistan side and the bullets hit head constable Ram Niwas Meena of 200 Battalion, he said.

On July 27, another BSF jawan was injured when Pakistani troops violated ceasefire twice in the space of 10 hours by targeting Indian posts along the Indo-Pak border in Poonch and Kathua districts.

The Pakistani troops had used mortars, RPGs and heavy machine guns leading to heavy firing exchanges.

On July 3, Pakistan violated ceasefire when it fired on cops, who had gone to LoC in Sabzian, Poonch to collect the body of a Pakistani intruder killed in an IED blast on July 1.

Pakistani troops fired on troops trying to evacuate injured porters after two were killed in IED attack by Pakistani militants along LoC in Poonch on July 8.

On July 12, Pakistani Rangers fired on Indian forward posts in Pindi belt along international border (IB) in Jammu district.

Pakistani troops opened small arms firing on Indian posts in forward area along LoC in Poonch district on the night of July 22.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 14:25 
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'Pakistan's Mujahideen Regiment behind LoC attack'

Quote:
A Junior Commissioned Officer and four soldiers were killed and an another soldier was injured when the Pakistani troops ambushed the six-member Indian patrol.

"The injured jawan has been airlifted to Jammu for specialised treatment. The Pakistanis withdrew after the killings," a source said.

According to sources, 15-20 Pakistani soldiers of 101 Mujahideen Regiment, aided by a few terrorists, attacked the Sarla post on the Indian side of the LoC.

The Pakistani Armymen reportedly intruded 500 metres into the Indian side of LoC past midnight.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 14:41 
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Here are two key visits to Beijing by top Paki army staff including the logistics chief.It was followed up by Nawaz Sharif also on a 5 day visit too. The visits and the simultaneous aggro. by the Chinese indicates a well orchestrated and coordinated plan to keep India off balance with a two-front scenario.The visit of the Paki army logistics chief is of particular importance as it indicates that mischief is certainly afoot."Professionals talk logistics,amateurs tactics",is an old military saying.The building up of large war material for Pak at this moment of time,when we are being cooerced on both fronts by the Sino-Pak axis, is a grim signal to us to expect the worst.

Quote:
May 21, 2013

BEIJING, May 20, (ChinaMil) -- Zhao Keshi, member of the Central Military Commission (CMC) of the People's Republic of China (PRC) the Communist Party of China (CPC) and director of the General Logistics Department (GLD) of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), met with Lt. Gen. Muhammad Haroon Aslam, the visiting chief of logistics staff of the Pakistan Army, and his party on the afternoon of May 17, 2013.

Zhao Keshi extended his welcome to Haroon and his party for their visit to China. He said that no matter how the international situation fluctuates, China and Pakistan have always been supporting and cooperating closely with each other, offering mutual benefits and achieving common progress since the establishment of diplomatic relations between the two countries. The two countries and their people have established a profound "all-weather" friendship in the long-term friendly contacts. He hoped that the logistics departments of the Chinese and Pakistani militaries would constantly tap the potential for cooperation and expand the scope of contact, so as to add new content and bring new vitality into further development of the relations between the two countries and the two militaries.


There is much more behind this dastardly act of murder of Indian soldiers by Paki pigs.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 17:37 
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motion detection & infra sensors have become so cheap all over the world.. wonder what is that makes our soldiers life so irrelevant to think about using technology that has become ubiquitous every where on the planet.

if we can buy an elephant, and can afford to maintain it, then we should be able to afford a mahout.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 18:24 
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RIP brave jawans

It is telling that this attack happens on the same day that the blue turban turncoat offered unconditional talks with the Pukis "decoupled from 26/11".

I hope we dont see yet another "we will retaliate at a time & place of our choosing" nonsense. Its becoming old.

2 jawans were beheaded at LOC in early January. We are still deciding on the time & place of our choosing.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 18:33 
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Param pujya Manmohan Singh ji will meet Nawaz Sharif in September in New York.

We will send out a strong message by stating that these killings will feature "high on the agenda".

Pravin Swami, as usual, does an equal-equal like he did with the LOC grandmother fairy tale. Liberal mofo. A lesson to all those at BRF who thought he had turned a new leaf after moving to Firstpost

http://www.firstpost.com/india/exclusive-dirty-war-on-loc-preceded-deadly-poonch-ambush-1014081.html


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 20:18 
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Prem Kumar wrote:
....

Pravin Swami, as usual, does an equal-equal like he did with the LOC grandmother fairy tale. Liberal mofo. A lesson to all those at BRF who thought he had turned a new leaf after moving to Firstpost

http://www.firstpost.com/india/exclusive-dirty-war-on-loc-preceded-deadly-poonch-ambush-1014081.html


He says:

The November 2003 ceasefire, Indian diplomatic sources say, was based on an unwritten “agreement,” which in essence stipulated that neither side would reinforce its fortifications along the Line of Control — a measure first agreed to after the 1971 war. In 2006, the two sides exchanged drafts for a formal agreement — but the talks have stalled.

Perhaps there were other unwritten agreements as well, like "Pakistan shall not send suicide terrorists across" :roll:

The article stinks. But what I like is that he is trying to connect the dots ... and trace out a history of this "war of attrition". To outsiders these appear to be isolated albeit frequent events with only a tactical relevance.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 20:58 
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Amazing document.A CIA 1963 one on:

"THE SECURITY OF INDIA'S HIMALAYAN FRONTIER
Created: 8/30/1963

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/cia/docs/82/0000254 ... z2bCfVMw7r

Even though this document is so old,the analysis still holds good in many respects and reminds one of the famous French phrase,"plus ca change,plus c'est la meme chose".The more things change,the more they remain the same).A fascinating essential read.Just a small quote from the introduction.

Quote:
OCR scan of the original document, errors are possible

CURRENT INTELLIGENCE STAFF STUDY

THE SECURITY OF INDIA'S HIMALAYAN FRONTIER

The following staff study on "The Security of India's Himalayan Frontier" was prepared by the Office of Current Intelligence inresponse loorequest from the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Department of Stole. If is being circulated for the information of offices dealing with South Asian affairs.

Office of Current Intelligence CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY

^SECRET-

TABLE OF CONTENTS

KASHMIR AND

PUNJAB, HIMACHAL PRADESH, UTTAR PRADESH .

SIKKIM, BHUTAN

MAPS

J. NORTH INDIAN ADMINISTRATIVE DISTRICTS II. JAMMU AND KASHMIR III. HIMALAYAN FRONTIER AREA

SUMMARY

Geography. The Himalayan mountain chain, whichthe boundary between the Indian subcontinent and Tibet,ignificant but by no means impenetrable barrier. rough terrain, difficult transportation problems, and cold or rainy climates, thousands of traders andave until recently regularly crossed the considerable number of passes between India, Nepal, Sikkira, Bhutan and Tibet each year. Even many of those passes which tend to be blocked by winter snows for periodsew days to seven months can be crossed by persons determined to do so.

Terrain in the Himalayas favors an invader from the north. The approach from the high plateau of Tibet is usually over relatively flat barren plains, and the final ascent to the border passes is relatively short. In contrast, the approach from the plains of India to the mountain crests is generally up through steep, heavily wooded mountain valleysiles long. In the eastern portion of the Himalayas, where altitudes are lower, the problem of snow in the mountain passes is relatively minor, but heavy monsoon rainfall on the southern slopes between June and September creates rushing mountain torrents and landslides which seriously hamper The northern-invader has the advantage of choosing his point of entry. The Indian defender isisadvantage, since he cannot readily move forces in an east-west direction because of steep-sided river valleys and sharp ridges which run roughly north and south at right angles to the general east-west direction of the mountain ranges themselves. NEFA and Assam are particularly vulnerable, having direct land connection with the rest of India only by meansarrow corridor crossing between East Pakistan and Bhutan. Through this corridor runs only one single-track railway line.

The people. The peoples who. inhabit the Himalayas are the backwash of many civilizations, remnants of populations driven into refuge areas by succeeding waves of invaders and conquerors. Living in mountain valleys, usually isolated by streams and ridges from neighbors to tbe east and the west, they form heterogeneous groups of several racial backgrounds, many differentide variety of religions ranging from simple animism to complex Hindu and Buddhist philosophies, and cultures of which some are unique while others are related to those on the plains of India or the plateau of Tibet.

There is little sense of national unity among the peoples in any part of India's Himalayan uplands, most groups caring little about others outside their own valleys, and leaders tend to be highly localized in their influence, in Nepal, whichiles of frontier against Tibet, the authority of the king carries little real weight beyond^ the 'edges of the Katmandu valle;

There are no outstanding animosities between groups of any significant size within the Himalayan hill regions,in the Northeast Frontier Agency of Assamhere highly localized, small-scale, intertribal feuding takes place. Possibly the strongest intraregional irritation is caused by Nepali emigrants who have settled in considerable numbers in southern Sikkira, the hill districts of West Bengal state, and in southern Bhutan and have taken over much of the economic leadership there. Between hillmen and the outside world, the main problemeeling of antipathy toward the people and government of India in the plains. Among hill residents in Punjab and Uttar Pradesh states, this feeling is one of being discriminated against by the Indian plainsmen. In Nepal there is dislike of being dominated by an outside power. In Sikkim, Bhutan, and NEFA, there is some resentment at interference from Indian outsiders seeking to "civilize" the local people who would prefer to be left alone.

Few in number, geographically scattered, culturally backward, and lightly armed, the population of the Himalayas io its present state of civilization would be unable either significantly to stop a military invasion from Tibet or to defend India against an aggressor.

Read more: http://www.faqs.org/cia/docs/82/0000254 ... z2bCgrfITq


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 22:46 
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Ajai Shukla is sick. Can't believe this idiot was in the army. Trying to play down this incident.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-r ... topstories


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2013 22:49 
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BSF officer killed by cattle smugglers.

The Border Security Force (BSF) seems to be paying a heavy price, thanks to the Centre's policy to issue non-lethal weapons to personnel manning the Indo-Bangladesh border. The number of Bangladeshi casualties may have come down but authorities across the border don't seem to have kept their words to curb crime along the international border.

As a result, criminals are taking advantage of the fact that the BSF jawans aren't armed with lethal weapons and creating havoc.

On Monday, sub inspector Rajender Singh of the 91 Bn BSF, who was attacked by cattle smugglers on July 22, died in a city hospital.Attacked at BOP Jhorpara in the Dhantala police station area of Nadia, Singh slipped into a coma. On Monday morning, he breathed his last at the Mission Hospital in Kolkata.

"He was a resident of Haryana and attacked by cattle smugglers when he attempted to stop them. He was attacked with sharp edged "DAHs" resulting in multiple cut injuries. The BSF lodged an FIR at the Dhantala PS. Six Indians and six Bangladeshis were named but no arrests have been made as yet", a senior BSF officer said. With BSF jawans worried about being suspended should they pull the triggers of their Insas rifles or newly-inducted Beretta carbines, attacks such as these have gone up manifold. Whenever the BSF attempted to stop the cattle smugglers from across the border, Indian villagers - associated with the racket - have attacked the jawans, Protests by the BSF at all levels hasn't helped much.

"After implementation of non lethal strategy on Indo-Bangla border, smugglers have become aggressive. In 2013, 47 BSF personnel have been seriously injured by miscreants along the South Bengal Frontier alone. Along the eastern theatre border, the number of severe casualties has been 75 personnel during this period," an officer said.

Officers are now facing a drop in morale among the troops who are sent out on patrol to get beaten up by criminals.

Even as another round of protest has been lodged with Bangladesh in Singh's case, the BSF is not too hopeful that things will improve. Meanwhile, Singh's body is being sent back to his home in Haryana by air.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 04:03 
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From Hindu
Map of where the attack took place:

Image


I still dont understand how AKA Anthony decided they are terrorists in TSP Army uniforms?

is it easy to get 20 TSP Army uniforms and that too in border areas and cross over the fence and attack an Indian Army patrol?

Is he thinking that such an action is a terrorist act hence its by terrorists who happen to be wearing TSP Army uniforms or he is being too clever for his own good?

Any way he will go down next to Krishna Menon as one of the worst Defence Ministers.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 09:51 
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http://www.firstpost.com/india/ground-r ... 15821.html

Quote:
...

Col Kalia told Firstpost that the ambush may have come as retaliation against the “effective counter infiltration grid on LoC, which has ensured 17 infiltration bids foiled this year resulting in killing of a total of 13 hardcore Pakistan trained militants.

“The numbers of such attempts have doubled this year in comparison to the corresponding period of 2012. Pak Army’s desperation is also evident in the substantial increase in the number of Cease Fire Violations this year. There have been 57 Cease Fire Violations this year which is almost 80% more than the violations last year,” he said.

...


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 11:22 
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If that's the case what Mr. Antony is saying is true. Then Indian Army Command should order shoot at sight orders to our soldiers on any one they see in TSP uniform. And on protest by TSP we have valid reason given on platter by them onlee. We need to convert this situation to our advantage this time unlike the previous incident which resulted in BS like time and place of our choosing.
What we want now is clever action enough of talk talk and more talk. :evil:


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 12:54 
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^^

I agree Ajai Shukla is a disgrace to the OG. I had a chance to speak to one of the recent very well regarded GOCnCs Northern Command (can't take names sorry) and he made a couple of points. I am giving a sanitized version here. Things are worse than this.

1. There is deep concern in the armed forces especially army about morale of troops and officers when they feel their own government does'nt support them and has no coherent policy. In the age of media everybody sees what is happening and soldiers are not fools. This is very corrosive.

2. There is pressure from the government to be 'nice' to the Pakis and militants and some careers have ended when officers have stood by their guns.

3. Arty is a serious concern and even if there was the political will to inflict damage and respond 'for effect' small arms cannot inflict the damage. Our mortars are no good. We need arty!

4. The strategic situation is unfolding much like what most of us feared and our govt and our public discourse has no conception of it.

5. I asked him why people like him don't speak up. He said we do but perhaps we are too nuanced and not emotive and direct. He said the problem with being direct is that you will have to criticize the government, bureaucracy and polity because its crystal clear what the problem is. But Indians do not understand national security at any level and that would lead to aspersions being cast on the motives of the armed forces and emasculate them even more. This might make a bad situation worse and cost lives. So its very tricky.

6. So whats the solution I asked him. Will we need to have a major catastrophe and pay a huge price in blood before we wake up from our stupor? I will not print his answer.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 16:42 
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Akshay Kapoor wrote:
^^
6. So whats the solution I asked him. Will we need to have a major catastrophe and pay a huge price in blood before we wake up from our stupor? I will not print his answer.


Why saar? Please do. We need to know & be prepared.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 18:27 
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RoyG wrote:
Ajai Shukla is sick. Can't believe this idiot was in the army. Trying to play down this incident.

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/left-r ... topstories


I told the forum so, quite some time back, when he started his hatchet jobs against army ostensibly to support the DPSUs.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 18:42 
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when you drive around in a tin can and your head bangs around everyday - this is what happens

effing cretin


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 19:12 
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We keep seeing photos of double barbed wire fences on the LOC as if the entire length is like that. In reality, most of it is probably just white markers every km, even in a "well guarded" sector like Poonch. Those photos are just for show.

The other thing I fail to understand is the pakis came 400 meters inside and ambushed our troops. Are our front lines so far away from the LOC? Why were our chaps patrolling so far inside ? After all, the IB per our maps is well inside pak occupied territory and our posts should be right on the LOC.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 20:53 
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LoC attack: Martyr's wife refuses compensation, seeks action against Pak
There you go. GoI action against pak will be to throw heavy dossier across border only to have the pakis sh!t on it and throw it back.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 21:11 
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ramana wrote:

Any way [A.K. Antony] will go down next to Krishna Menon as one of the worst Defence Ministers.


Ramana, one cannot deal decisively with the cat's paw unless one is prepared to deal with the cat. I think A.K. Antony is doing a decent job, given the realities he is forced to deal with. Under him, India has made significant steps forward in strategic autonomy. Just think of the progress made in a variety of projects. There are many people who hate him for that.

Regarding this latest attack, this "peace process" is a sham, but I would not recommend an overt war at this time. (In my opinion, India should respond through covert means.) Keep in mind that globally, there are multiple factions, multiple individuals, multiple agendas, and multiple motivations. India should respond in a calculated fashion.


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PostPosted: 07 Aug 2013 21:23 
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Avarachan wrote:
ramana wrote:

Any way [A.K. Antony] will go down next to Krishna Menon as one of the worst Defence Ministers.


Ramana, one cannot deal decisively with the cat's paw unless one is prepared to deal with the cat. I think A.K. Antony is doing a decent job, given the realities he is forced to deal with. Under him, India has made significant steps forward in strategic autonomy. Just think of the progress made in a variety of projects. There are many people who hate him for that.

Regarding this latest attack, this "peace process" is a sham, but I would not recommend an overt war at this time. (In my opinion, India should respond through covert means.) Keep in mind that globally, there are multiple factions, multiple individuals, multiple agendas, and multiple motivations. India should respond in a calculated fashion.


Sorry, there's absolutely nothing "calibrated" or "calculated" about Anthony making a Statement in the Indian Parliament, backed up by his authority as Defence Minister, to the effect that the Pakistani attackers were "terrorists in Pakistan Army uniforms."

Even the most trivial of "calculations" would demonstrate that such a statement only confers respectability upon ISI propaganda, of the kind used to "prove" that "non-state actors masquerading as official Pakistani soldiers are trying to create problems." There is absolutely no evidence for this; rather, ample evidence that Pakistani soldiers will operate out of uniform, as in 1947,1965 and Kargil, to deflect responsibility from Pakistan Army actions.

Worse yet, even if such a thing were true in the case of the Sarta Post attack, there is absolutely no way Anthony could have been reporting any sort of confirmed information... what investigation had taken place to reach this astounding conclusion within three hours following the attack? How is it in any way becoming of a responsible Defence Minister, to stamp this heinous and ill-motivated piece of pure fiction with the authority vested in his office by presenting it in Parliament as a "confirmed report"?

What Anthony has said provides unprecedented credibility to the Pakistani position, while demoralizing the Indian armed forces and striking yet another blow at the foundations of multiple government institutions: the Armed Forces, the Ministry of Defence, and the Parliament itself. There is absolutely no excuse for it.


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