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PostPosted: 08 Jul 2012 08:59 
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PostPosted: 08 Jul 2012 12:55 
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First Test Of Indian Cruise Missile Looms


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2012 10:15 
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Very True.

LACM is one front IA is severely lagging when compared to the other military powers worldwide.
OTOH, PLAs massive stockpiles can cause Havoc in most of our prominent northern cities(read Delhi,Kolkata) destroying our morale and "teaching a lesson" accordingly. This will be the case despite IA/IAF doing well at the borders.

The only deterrent to this IMO will be an equal capability with LACMs of even higher range and numbers and a Strategic force(read Backfire) capable of launching equally devastating LACM strikes on its eastern cities.


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2012 10:19 
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>> PLAs massive stockpiles

are there any reliable estimates of PLAs GLCM/ALCM inventory and production rates? I have not seen any. photos of deployed field formations with GLCM is also quite rare vs those with SRBM/MRBM.


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2012 10:40 
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Gurus, any news of which is the next AGNI trial?


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2012 10:52 
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This article I believe can be taken as a baseline estimate.

It suggests a presence of around 250-300 missiles(CJ-10) 3 years ago. It could easily have crossed 500 mark today and growing.
And these are just the numbers of one long range missile they have. Delhi, actually can be reached by Missiles with far shorter ranges that are tactical in nature. And will in be in thousands to begin counting with.


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2012 19:46 
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Army to Carry Out Nag, NAMICA Trials

The article says July 2 was the test date, any news on what was the outcome?

http://www.defencenow.com/news/772/army-to-carry-out-nag-namica-trials.html

Quote:
The Army will carry out the last round of trials of the anti-tank Nag missile and specially designed carrier NAMICA on July 2 in the Mahajn desert firing range in Rajasthan.

The induction of the land-based 'top attack and fire and forget' Nag missiles was supposed to have been done in 2011 but it was delayed with the Army seeking modifications in NAMICA.

Each NAMICA can carry 12 missiles, eight of them in ready-to-fire mode.

"We are going to try the NAMICA and Nag for apparently for the last time before their induction into operational service," army sources said to defencenow.com.

The partially amphibious NAMICA had been totally modified and two separate systems produced by Larsen and Toubro and Bharat Electronics Limited would be tested in the trials.

Nag missile, which has a range of four km, would be tested for its full range, two km and a minimum of 500 metres. This time DRDO scientists would demonstrate the lock-on-before launch capability of the missile for a four-km range with an upgraded imaging infrared seeker.

In lock-on-before-launch mode, the missile keeps acquiring the image of the target every 30 milliseconds right from the launch till the impact on target.

The missile would be fired to destroy both moving and stationary targets during the trials.


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2012 20:59 
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Location: havildar-major, 1st JSOC munna detachment.
deployed in some number to support infantry faced with a armour attack, this sounds like a powerful weapon.
twice the range of the javelin, and without the need to deploy N number of javelin shooters exposed to any form of fire and only able to relocate at jogging speed carrying the tubes and sights.


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PostPosted: 09 Jul 2012 22:03 
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Austin wrote:

Dont know why the word looms is chosen? Appears sinister connotation.

Quote:

Asia-Pacific Staff New Delhi

In contrast to how India promoted its Agni-V ballistic missile, New Delhi is unlikely to draw a lot of international attention to upcoming testing of the Nirbhay cruise missile, even as it holds far more significance for the nation's weapons program than is widely appreciated. :?:

In August, the country is scheduled to conduct the first test of its little known Nirbhay (“fearless”), a subsonic weapon with a maximum range of 1,000 km (620 mi.). Designated “secret,” the weapon's development has remained concealed since its existence was revealed in 2006. :?:

Like the Agni-V, the Nirbhay will be tested from India's missile range over the Bay of Bengal. The missile has two stages, is understood to be powered by a Russian-built NPO Saturn engine, will cruise at Mach 0.7 and is being developed to demonstrate loitering capabilities. Sources at the Hyderabad-based Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL), which built the missile prototype, say the weapon is ready for its first flight.

ASL Director V.G. Sekaran recently said the Nirbhay was slated for a July-August debut. While the agency has refused to comment on the Nirbhay's capabilities, there remains some ambiguity about whether the “Nirbhay” name pertains only to the primary weapon—the subsonic cruise missile—or to a family, including a yet-unnamed, long-range, scramjet-powered supersonic cruise missile. :?:

The writer seems to be a desi Commie freak!}

The ambiguity is an inevitable part of the project's secret status. The agency has worked with intrigue before; :eek: last July, it tested the Prahaar quick-reaction, surface-to-surface missile after first revealing the existence of the system barely two weeks before.

The Indian armed forces are watching the Nirbhay with perhaps greater focus than they did the Agni. :?: While the country's weapons program has matured in the ballistic missile arena, it has little or nothing to show in cruise missiles. In the Indo-Russian BrahMos, Russia still builds critical technologies such as the engine and seeker, while India contributes the inertial navigation and fire control systems. On the Nirbhay, while Russia is understood to have contributed the engine, sources say it will be replaced with an Indian turbojet or tubofan in a later phase.

“In many ways, the Nirbhay is a more crucial weapon system than the Agni family,” says an officer with one of the Indian army's BrahMos missile regiments. “The lack of a long-range cruise missile has long been felt by the armed forces. The BrahMos is an excellent border weapon, but we need a terrain-hugging missile with a range of 750-1,000 kilometers for more potent deterrent value. That's why we're waiting for the Nirbhay more than we've perhaps waited for anything in the last 20 years.” The BrahMos supersonic cruise missile has a stated range of 290 km.

{So what targets are there in 750-1000km range? And how does he think its a deterrent? Deterrent is for nukes only. No body gets deterred with conventional payloads. So looks like confusion about terminology.}

In 2007, India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO) revealed that the Nirbhay would be capable of delivering 24 different warhead types. :?: DRDO sources say that while the engine is Russian, the rest of Nirbhay is fully indigenous, including sensors, guidance and flight-control systems. In 2008, reports suggested the Nirbhay was a loose derivative of the indigenous Lakshya target drone, which is operational with the armed forces. A mockup of the Nirbhay was to have been displayed at Aero India in February 2011, but was pulled at the last moment after a change of heart at DRDO.

A former rear admiral from the Indian navy's gunnery says, “The Nirbhay is rightly a hushed-up program. It shouldn't draw too much attention until it has begun testing in earnest. Three years ago, there was a lot of confidence in the program and scientists were confident they could deliver such an ambitious weapon. It is a clean break from anything India has developed before.”

The Nirbhay has never been seen or photographed, and India wants to keep it that way until the actual debut test. DRDO sources say the missile is being built to be used from land, sea and air. The Center for Military Airworthiness and Certification has revealed that it has been asked to integrate the Nirbhay to an Indian air force Sukhoi Su-30 MKI airframe, while the land variant's mobile launcher was recently revealed to be an Indian-built Tata Prahaar vehicle unveiled at New Delhi's DefExpo trade event in March.


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PostPosted: 10 Jul 2012 10:53 
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Good news folks !

India prepares to install its Missile Defence Shield (Phase 1) for New Delhi and Mumbai

Quote:
July 06, 2012

India is preparing to install a shield to protect against intermediate-range ballistic missiles and ICBMs in some of the country’s major cities.

“The final locations, which have adequate stealth features and protection against enemy sabotage, will soon be determined by the government to install the ballistic missile defense [BMD] system,” a defense ministry official says.

A detailed proposal is currently being prepared for approval by the Indian government.

....


link to Aviation Week


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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2012 08:16 
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Agni-I missile test likely this week in Odisha
WEDNESDAY, 11 JULY 2012 00:05 DEBDAS KUNDU | BALESWAR
http://dailypioneer.com/nation/79699-ag ... disha.html
Quote:
A user trial of homegrown Agni-I missile is likely to be carried out from a launching complex of the Intergraded Test Range (ITR) at the Wheeler Island at Dhamra off the Odisha coast this week.

The test would be carried out most likely on July 12 or 13 depending on several factors, said sources. As the personnel of the user unit of the Indian Army have already arrived, the test would be carried out by the by the specially raised unit, the Strategic Forces Command (SFC), with the assistance of DRDO scientists and officers, the sources added.

The 15-metre-tall Agni-1 weighing about 12 tonnes is a single-stage, solid-fuel, road and rail mobile, medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM). Having a range of about 700 km. it has a highly-specialised navigation system, which ensures it to reach the target with a high degree of accuracy. It is capable of carrying both conventional and nuclear warheads weighing 1 tonne.


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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2012 11:48 
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^ Really Agni or Nirbhay in disguise, though i think it would be apparent to anyone who could track the missile trajectory.


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PostPosted: 11 Jul 2012 12:06 
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^^ whatever happened to the planned salvo of A-II A-III, A-IV which were to be user-trails immediately after the A-V test?


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2012 11:21 
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Agni-I successfully test-fired | PTI

Quote:
India on Friday successfully test-fired its indigenously developed nuclear capable Agni-I ballistic missile, with a strike range of 700 km, as part of the Army’s user trials from a test range at Wheeler Island off Odisha.

The surface-to-surface, single-stage missile, powered by solid propellants, was test-fired from a mobile launcher at 10.10 a.m. from launch pad-4 of the Integrated Test Range at Wheeler Island, about 100 km from Balasore, defence sources said.

“The trial of the sophisticated missile with a strike range of 700 km was successful,” a defence scientist said.

Describing the launch as a routine user’s trial by the strategic force command of Indian Army, he said the main objective was to train the user team to launch the missile.

“It was a practice-drill. The user-team picked a missile at random from the production lot and fired it with logistic support provided by Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) at ITR,” he said.

Agni-I missile has a specialised navigation system which ensures it reaches the target with a high degree of accuracy and precision, he said.

The trajectory of the missile, which has an operational strike range of 700 km, was tracked by sophisticated radars and electro-optic telemetry stations located along the sea coast and ships positioned near the impact point in the downrange area.

Weighing 12 tonnes, the 15-metre-long Agni-I, which can carry payloads up to 1000 kg, has already been inducted into the Indian Army.

Agni-I was developed by advanced systems laboratory, the premier missile development laboratory of the DRDO in collaboration with Defence Research Development Laboratory and Research Centre Imarat and integrated by Bharat Dynamics Limited, Hyderabad.

The last trial of the Agni-I missile was successfully carried out on December 1, 2011 from the same base.

Since the missile has already been inducted into the armed forces, it is important to conduct user trials for training of defence personnel and improvement of their skills, sources said.


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2012 11:22 
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India tests N-capable Agni-I missile
Quote:
Balasore: India on Friday successfully test-fired its indigenously developed nuclear capable Agni-I ballistic missile, with a strike range of 700 km, as part of the Army's user trial from a test range at Wheeler Island off Odisha coast.

The surface-to-surface, single-stage missile, powered by solid propellants, was test-fired from a mobile launcher at about 1010 hrs from launch pad-4 of the Integrated Test Range at Wheeler Island, about 100 km from here, defence sources said.

"The trial of the sophisticated missile with a strike range of 700 km was successful," a defence scientist said.

Describing the launch as a routine user’s trial by the strategic force command of Indian Army, he said the main objective was to train the user team to launch the missile.

"It was a practice-drill. The user-team picked a missile at random from the production lot and fired it with logistic support provided by Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) at ITR," he said.

Agni-I missile has a specialised navigation system which ensures it reaches the target with a high degree of accuracy and precision, he said.

The trajectory of the missile, which has an operational strike range of 700 km, was tracked by sophisticated radars and electro-optic telemetry stations located along the sea coast and ships positioned near the impact point in the downrange area.

Weighing 12 tonnes, the 15-metre-long Agni-I, which can carry payloads up to 1000 kg, has already been inducted into the Indian Army.

One year to the day of the Mumbai July 13 blasts


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2012 12:36 
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sum wrote:
^^ whatever happened to the planned salvo of A-II A-III, A-IV which were to be user-trails immediately after the A-V test?


http://newindianexpress.com/nation/article556438.ece

Quote:
DRDO chief and Scientific Advisor to Defence Minister V K Saraswat confirmed that the test was planned to be conducted in the second week of July. “After that two other variants of Agni will be tested and the DRDO is planning for the second test of Agni-V in early next year,” he told ‘The New Indian Express’.


Quote:
Though Agni-I was initially planned to be tested in May, but the test was deferred till July reportedly due to some problems during the integration of the missile with the tracking systems and other sub-systems.

A defence scientist associated with the programme said there were considerable improvements in its re-entry technology and manoeuvrability since Agni-I’s first trial in 2002. This test will reconfirm the technical parameters set for the user (Army).


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PostPosted: 13 Jul 2012 23:32 
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Roperia wrote:

The Hindu later added more info to the PTI report.
Quote:
Dr. Saraswat said the maiden launch of India’s Nirbhay, a sub-sonic cruise missile, would take place by the end of August this year. Nirbhay is India’s equivalent of Tomahawk, a long-range sub-sonic cruise missile in the arsenal of the U.S. The Aeronautical Development Establishment (ADE), a DRDO facility situated in Bangalore, has designed Nirbhay which has several technologies derived from Lakshya, a pilotless target aircraft.

The launch of Agni-V from a canister would take place after five months, he added.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 05:53 
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I am confused only. Were there two tests or only one?

Agni-I successfully test fired again


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 09:03 
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Picture:

Agni-I Launch on July 13, 2012


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 10:23 
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Manish_Sharma wrote:


Rather old video about the Sudarshan LGB.

There has been no new news about this for years, AFAIK.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 10:54 
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seems like a strange lacuna in our projects that other than sudarshan nothing is funded in public. no bunker buster, wing range extention kits, glonass guided kits, no SDB,no SFW....these are war winning weapons and needed in huge numbers. treating them as special weapons inventory in the low 100s and keeping them wrapped in cotton wool until enemy is at gates of dilli is a losing idea.

efforts seem focussed on missiles only.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 12:04 
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correct .. more of an obsession.lack of vision and planning maybe ?!


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 12:07 
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PGMs are generally used in 100:1 ratio vs missiles even by Khan (paveway/jdam/sdb/SFW/WCMD vs atacms/slam-er/jsow/jassm)


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 12:17 
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Singha,

nothing is funded in public

..correct. When they have stuff ready, they will reveal it. Going by public data alone, there are clearly several PGM programs underway.

Pranav,

Quote:
There has been no new news about this for years, AFAIK.


I hope you were being facetious.

Check recent reports on the DRDO site. The Sudarshan is in series production for the IAF, having cleared trials in 2010-11, and advanced versions are in development.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 18:08 
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Here's a video from livefist of the recent Agni-1 launch,



Is that an energy bleeding maneuver during boost phase? and at the end there is a flash which fades very slowly, anybody know why?


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 18:29 
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^^^ :D
This is the first time I have seen video of RV re-entry and terminal impact of an Indian missile.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 18:42 
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Location: havildar-major, 1st JSOC munna detachment.
the flash seems like at altitude of 2-3km...likely to indicate where the n-device would explode in a real use. so it would test the functioning of altimeter and detonator electronics.
other than this old minuteman3 RV film, I am unable to find any other film showing the RV tracking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8n59S8j2C0

so this is a rare event.


Last edited by Singha on 14 Jul 2012 20:02, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 19:22 
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does the altitude say anything about warhead kT (not again :-)) if the target is say a population center and we are maximizing impact?


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 20:05 
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nice test for neutron device. [focus on killing people rather infrastructure].. :wink:

just think about maximizing use of kl-beach sands... U233++

actually we need to preserve paki infrastructure since our past history needs to be retained.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 20:24 
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test shows that we have mastered lower atmospheric detonation which causes more destruction. I estimate height to be 400-600 meters. Agni I as well as shaurya are probably going to form the bulk of our deterrent against pakistan.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 20:44 
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vasu raya wrote:
Here's a video from livefist of the recent Agni-1 launch,

[youtube]ri1WMQYiTZY[/ youtube]

Is that an energy bleeding maneuver during boost phase?
More likely.

and at the end there is a flash which fades very slowly, anybody know why?
First it is an IR footage. Second, it could be phosphorous laded explosive or similar to make it easier to identify.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 20:45 
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Karan M wrote:
The Sudarshan is in series production for the IAF


Any link? And what are the numbers being produced?

Quote:
Check recent reports on the DRDO site.


A google search of the DRDO site gives no such information - see https://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q ... 1I7SKPB_en


Last edited by Pranav on 14 Jul 2012 21:12, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 20:50 
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John wrote:
Not sure if this hypersonic variant being discussed is reincarnation of the original engine conceived for Oniks?


Sirji, from the info i have, we may identify this as a new one. Is it possible to give more pointers to the engine you are referring to?


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 20:54 
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SaiK ji, its just a show of deterrence

from the flash to touchdown thats about 1-2 secs, at high mach re-entry speed one would think its closer to Singha's figure of 2-3km, unless the video was in slow motion which probably explains the flash taking a while to fade or not, it was just plain old Phosphorescence like Kanson saab mentions

There is bird chirping in the background while its a warship in the middle of Bay of Bengal that took the terminal stage shot, is the warship close to a island?

or did it get mixed with Aroor's own soundtrack while editing


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 21:24 
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15-20 kt detonation at 2-3km would probably degrade destructive impact. Unless we intend to field a greater yield.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 21:56 
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Quote:
what will be unique about ‘Brahmos-II’ was that India will have the lead in this hypersonic missile technologically with “multiple versions” – it can also be used for underwater missions aimed at submarine targets, giving the country an extra edge in this class of missile,

that is interesting.. are they doing a shqual on this?


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 21:59 
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Singha wrote:
the flash seems like at altitude of 2-3km...likely to indicate where the n-device would explode in a real use. so it would test the functioning of altimeter and detonator electronics.
other than this old minuteman3 RV film, I am unable to find any other film showing the RV tracking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8n59S8j2C0

so this is a rare event.



Yes this is a rare picture. Usually its classified every where else. The flash is the fuze being functioned. Recall we all wanted to see the AV RV splashdown picture!
It will be similar to this.

The flash is slow as its being slowed frame by frame.
The time/altitude when it happens gives idea of the fuze characteristics. Height of burst etc for targeting purposes.

Pak and Panda suars should spend some sleepless nights.

You cant ABM such a small target as the RV for their level of technology.

Again part of Credible Deterrence Doctrine.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 22:06 
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they would spend sleepless years/decades if we can show the MIRV ones too... nice.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 22:07 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaLvTZqXNmU

Some russi warheads for your viewing pleasure.


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PostPosted: 14 Jul 2012 22:25 
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Now, after some 60 years, if only India can build some nice, all-weather roadS along the border it would complete the picture.


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