Conduct your own war

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Sri
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Sri »

Well, taking the town will be rumba time consuming with rumba casualities. You only said not much time at hand. Why not just dominate the ridges. Cut off all road / train / air access to the town / cantonment. Cut all telecom cables. Jam the radio frequencies. Cut electricity supply. Bombard them with propaganda. This will surely stop communications.

There is no need to physically occupy the city as long BLF controls all points of ingress.
rohitvats
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by rohitvats »

Sri, what is the objective beind taking Zariwalan Gap? And how will you reach the Ridge? RLF are not going to lay the red carpet for you!!!
KiranM
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by KiranM »

I am no expert but here goes an attempt.

Orbat of BLF in Z sector

Regular Infantry brigade x 1 (1IB)
- Motorized infantry for holding the line using prepared defences
- organic sapper section (need to estimate number)
- ATGM platoons x 4

(Air Assault capable) Light Infantry Battalion x 1 (3AA)
- Liberally armed with thermobaric RPGs/ Carl Gustavs
- Required Thermobaric & Anti-Armor man portable ATGMs (need to estimate number)
- Few Snipers and adequate Designated Squad Marksmen (need to estimate number)
- FACs and FOOs

Special Forces company x 1 (SF)
- Man portable ATGMs, MANPADs, snipers (need to estimate number)
- Members trained in FAC and directing artillery

Mechanized Battalion x 1 (4MB)
- organic mobile 120mm mortar platoons (need to estimate number)
- organic mobile sapper section (Mechanized engineer??) (need to estimate number)
- organic bridging, pontoon & associated engg equipment (not sure of numbers)

Armoured(Tank) Regiment x 2 (1 & 2TR)
- Jeep and UGV based recon element for each TR

Artillery Brigade x 1
- Medium artillery Regiment 155mm towed x 3
- Rocket Artillery Regiment Pinaka x 1

1 Squadron of ALH

2 flights of ALH-WSI

Section of 6 MALE UAVs

-- End of sector Orbat --

Also available;
Corps level support in form of Helicopters and artillery.
1 flight of Jaguar for CAS or interdiction on call within 5 min from 0hrs until 48hrs


Time period for assault - 48hrs

1) For 10 days until D-Day use UAVs to recon and identify vulnerable fixed targets, ammo dumps, POL, Barracks, troop and armour concentrations, gun positions. Study patterns of patrols at DCB, between DCB & Canal, at canal and between canal & ridge.

2) 1IB deployed at International border along the Z- sector (assuming 10km wide frontline with Zariwalan gap aligned to centre of this frontline)

3) 5 Days until D-Day start selective and gradually intensifying artillery bombardment at DCB, Canal and ridge.

4) On 2nd night of artillery bombardment (3+ days until Day1) send 2 ALHs to infiltrate 2 platoons of SF halfway between Zariwalan city and ridge. Ingress and egress of ALH will be from neighbouring sector. 1 section (Wolf unit) of 6 men moves up the ridge where possible HQ is sited. Remaining strength of SF is divided into 2 units (Aplha and Omega units). Alpha moving towards outskirts of Zariwalan city. Omega unit towards the Zariwalan gap.
- 1+ day until D-Day Omega will start sabotage (perhaps take out a tank if possible). Will result in some strength being pulled from canal for hunting Omega.
- 1+ day until D-Day Alpha will take down a helicopter/ UAV; if not possible then raid the Rail/ Road intersection.
- This will cause some assets to be relocated from city to hunt Omega and from gap to hunt Alpha. Aim is to tie down reserve infantry elements of defending brigade and some portion of recon assets east of ridge.

D-Day 0hrs (Early morning)
5) Fire smoke rounds to establish smoke screen at the ridge, DCB, Canal and area between DCB & canal. Deploy 2 companies of 3AA using Brigade and Corp level Helicopters behind the canal. Snipers and ATGM teams from 3AA to move towards Zariwalan gap and set up skirmishing points. Bulk of 3AA to move westwards to engage canal defences from behind, hold bridges, etc.

6) Simultaneously, 1IB to assault DCB at 4 points along the 10km front. Using thermobaric ATGMS to suppress bunkers and mortars to suppress prepared firing positions of Red ATGM/ RPG teams. Engineers to breach/ bridge the DCB. One of these 4 points will serve as axis of advance. 4 points keeps the Red Sector commander guessing.

12hrs +
7) Once 1IB secures a bridgehead, 1TR to advance towards the Canal with 4MB (minus 1 company) behind. With 3AA assaulting behind and armoured assault from front canal to be subdued and bridged at a localized point of superiority.

24hrs +
8 ) 1TR crosses canal and moves towards Zariwalan gap to setup a defensive picket line. 2TR and rest of 4MB starts to cross DCB and move towards breached canal section.

9) Aim is 1TR, 2TR (minus 1 platoon) and 4MB minus 1 company to dash towards Zariwalan city. 1 company of 4MB and 1 platoon of 2TR to serve as rearguard of advance.

10) Rest of 3AA can be heli landed close to canal to keep the red forces tied down at canal.

11) 1IB if possible to exploit forward advance over DCB towards Canal from the remaining 3 points of DCB breach.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by bmallick »

Lets move backward from taking the town to the gap to the canal to the DCB. Lets see how much force is required at each stage & what needs to be done to attain objective for that stage. This way we back calculate to what needs to be the objectives in the previous stage.

First lets set the objectives required, then plan accordingly. So stage wise, this is what I think needs to be done. Please feel free to add/modify/remove the objectives. Please note that the stages are backward in execution.

Objective 1 Taking of the town:
To do this, we would need to do the following:
  • Control the Highway north & south of the city.
    Control the railline north & south of the city.
    Assault into the town from north,south highway & highway leading from the Gap to the town.
    The 4-lane highway from Gap to Town would be our MSR. Hence provide protection from flank attacks to it. Widen security perimeter to 4-5 km on either side, to prevent Red counter attack on this, which can result in your main force being cut-off and encircled.
    If the Red force on the ridge are left as it is, they can threaten your primary MSR. Hence occupy the ridge atleast 4-6 kms on either side.
    Your primary MSR from the IB to the GAP, needs to protected too, lest Red forces from North or South cut it off encircling your forces attacking the town. Hence occupy ground 4-5 kms on either side. Provide good numbers & force to these defenders.
    Protect your Bridges/Pontoons across the Canal, DCB at all cost. Need multiple bridges to supply the forces.
    Prevent enemy artillery forces from hitting your MSR. Actively hunt them down. This might entail, moving WLR's to the west of the GAP, so that the ridge doesn't act as a barrier to effective triangulation.
    Need to acquire local air superiority to the west of the GAP, providing protection to forces there. This might involve CAP support from Air Force as well as moving AA system to the region.
    If possible put pressure on Red Forces south of the ridge, thereby preventing RRS from reinforcing the Town Sector.
Objective 2 Break through the GAP:
  • Secure 3-4 kms of the Highway from the GAP to Town.
    Capture the bridge on the Highway and Secure it.
    Fan out & capture teritory atleast 2-4 kms on either side of the GAP to the west of the Ridge. Thus we enlarge our force's head.
    Secure the ridge line, atleast 1-2 kms on either side of the GAP, to prevent enemy forces from attacking from height. These ridge lines can also act as FAO. Hence their elimination is must.
    Destroy enemy strongholds on either side of the land route reaching from the Canal to the GAP.
    Establish forces on either side of the route to prevent flank attack.
    Protect your Bridges/Pontoons across the Canal, DCB at all cost. Need multiple bridges to supply the forces.
Objective 3 Get across the Canal:
  • If possible destroy the bunkers & strongpoints around points where bridges would be established, else at least suppress them, till the bridges are put in place and assault forces get across.
    Establish multiple bridges across the Canal and get assault forces across quickly.
    Prevent enemy artillery from interfering with establishment of bridges.
    Fan out & provide flank protections to the forces between the DCB & Canal.
Objective 4 Breach DCB & reach the Canal
  • Destroy/suppress enemy strongholds between the DCB & Canal, thus preventing them from interfering during the actual assault across the DCB.
    Establish secure routes through the mine field between the DCB & Canal.
    Get assault forces across the DCB. If required establish bridges to get across.
    Provide flank protection to the forces assaulting across the DCB. This protection has to be provided on both side of the DCB.
    Prevent enemy artillery from interfering.
Objective 5 Move from IB to DCB
  • Destroy enemy OP's between IB & DCB.
    Prevent enemy artillery rom interfering during these operations.
Objective 6 Assemble forces for the full assault
  • Assemble the force for Assault.
    Prevent enemy from knowing your full intentions.
    Prevent enemy from estimating your Orbat.
    Acquire information on enemy Orbat & distribution.
    Get intel.
These are broadly the objectives in reverse order that needs to be achieved to get to the final Objective of capturing the town. We can analyse these objectives and modify them. Once the objectives are established, we can work on the forces & operations required for achieving the objectives. This way we can work out the overall things that needs to be done & overall force requirements.
shiv
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by shiv »

Rohit, in your scenario, the role of the observers on the ridge would be, I am presuming, like a "tripewire". Any attack on the observers or any seeming concentration of forces opposite the gap will automatically cause the Red forces to mobilize their reserves 60 km away giving 48 hours to complete the capture.

The 500 metre mined gap between DCB and IB looks like "no man's land". The bund itself is 10 feet high (3 meters) and people (Blue forces) could stand in its "shadow" or even set up machine gun emplacements up on the top of the bund.

Between the DCB and canal are observers only, but the area can be flooded,. That would be done presumably only after the observers are across the bridge and the bridges destroyed. Their role it seems would be quite limited. If anyone decided to come across the minefield, the observers between DCB and canal could probably direct fire at the forces trying to get across the minefield.

But technically, even before blue forces crossed the border they should really get a pounding from artillery or else they will be across the minefield and move up 500 meters to the DCB fairly quick. Once they do that the observers between DCB and canal could direct fire at them, but if blue forces get that far the only thing left for the observers to do would be to cross the canal and bow the bridges and flood the area.

It strikes me that the thing to do would be NOT to mass forces that would make an attack imminent. It would be important not to panic the observers between DCB and canal and important to prevent flooding.

Perhaps the first action should be, starting at 11 PM one night, a massive air attack on the reserve forces 60 km away as well as many other nearby targets without specifically raising an alarm about an impending assault through the Zariwalan gap. Perhaps simultaneous twin diversionary assaults across the ridge north and south of the gap could be arranged starting with a massive artillery barrage on red observation point/defences on an east-west road across the ridge somewhere north AND south of the gap so that the observers on the ridge on either side of the gap itself are hearing of attacks that have started on on the ridge itself north and south of the gap. They will know that something is up. They will be alert, but there should be no visible attack on the gap itself initially.

Starting 4 AM - shortly before fog envelops the area, special forces need to paraglide in even as the artillery barrages are going on several km away and land at or near the bridges on the canal and blow them up, preventing anyone from entering or leaving. As soon as that is done, artillery barrage on the red defences beyond the canal should start, and the artillery that was hitting the ridge north and south of the gap should start hitting the observers on the ridge overlooking the gap. Meanwhile the special forces continue to mop up the observes between the DCB and canal who have no escape route as the bridges are gone.

Simultaneously withe commencement of the MBRL/artillery barrage on the red forces west of the canal, armored columns should start moving in from 30 km inside blue territory. It should be possible for the first units to cover the 30 km in an hour during which time the special forces who blew up the bridge should be taking control of any resisting observers in the area between DCB and canal.

By the time armor arrives at the IB the whole area between IB and canal should be relatively free of red forces.None on the minefield while between DCB and canal the spl forces are in control. beyond canal the red forces are still getting hammered. That is the time to cross the minefield, bridge the canal and start moving across. Total time from start of bombardment at 11 PM - maybe 10 hours.

Problem is what are the fallback options if all this fails. What if Red senses the attack and calls the observers back, blows up the bridges floods the plain and decides to sit out the bombardment? Don't know. Will think about it.
bmallick
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by bmallick »

Q: The reinforcements of Red Forces, ie RRN. which are engaged further north, are how far from the Gap. Is the distance between RRN & the Gap significant enough. Are there gaps in the line, or is it a continous line. If there are gaps, are these gaps between the mountain & the IB. Do these gap sections too have the ditch cum bund system.
Ans: No DCB in the gaps. However, retreating forces have prepared positions on the ridhe and along side the gap. Your map is accurate as far as the position of RRS is concerned
Shiv sir, based on what Rohit has replied in the above question and the fact that Red Reserve in the south is actually part of the Red offensive, there are no DCB south of the ridge. A DCB there would also impede Red Offensive. Moreover, what I am a bit intrigued is that if Red is planning an offensive from there, how come the Canal there is not acting as a barrier to them. Which means that either the Canal is not there or the Canal has good bridge system which can support a full fledged offensive operation. Rohit is that so?

If thats the case or even if it is not, then as you suggested use forces both armoured,mechanized & good old infantry size,to get across here. Red would think that this is where the offensive is. Once across the canal section, push Red back till the ridge section. Once this is achieved, push in a second armour, mechanized & infantry Group, in this sector across the canal. Red would think this is for more offensive in this sector. But, the first group of men & machine then go on the defensive and become holding forces and the second group pivots 90 degrees and flanks all the defenses between Canal & Ridge, and goes for the Zariwalan Gap. When the pivoting occurs just before that destroy the bridges across the canal, from the south end of the ridge to the Zariwalan Gap. Move infantry onto the ridges along the whole section. Thus the ridge protects your west flank from armour attack & the Canal your east flank. It would take 5-6 hrs for the heavy fire power to reach the gap. Any attempt by Red to stop this attack between the canal & ridge, would require moving forces through the Zariwalan gap. But then move a brigade of forces, across the DCB & Canal right at the Zariwalan Gap. Thus flanking any forces pushed by Red through the Gap. Once the attack force reaches the Gap, tear through it and create a wide head. Any movement of RRS to this sector would deplete, Red forces south of the Ridge, which would allow your holding group there to go on the offensive. Of course during all this we need Light infantry to take on the ridge line itself.
shiv
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by shiv »

if Red is planning an offensive from there, how come the Canal there is not acting as a barrier to them. Which means that either the Canal is not there or the Canal has good bridge system which can support a full fledged offensive operation.
Interesting question. But I do not want to make any assumptions about any other sector or whether Red is planing an offensive elsewhere. I want to stick to just what Rohit has provided no more, no less.
bmallick
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by bmallick »

shiv wrote:
if Red is planning an offensive from there, how come the Canal there is not acting as a barrier to them. Which means that either the Canal is not there or the Canal has good bridge system which can support a full fledged offensive operation.
Interesting question. But I do not want to make any assumptions about any other sector or whether Red is planing an offensive elsewhere. I want to stick to just what Rohit has provided no more, no less.
But thats what Rohit had said in his first post. Take a look at the following parts of the scenario he posted:
Red Land follows a doctrine of riposte – that is, it will counter the offensive of Blue Land forces with its own counter-offensives at a place and timing of its choosing. However, given the need to conserve resources and establish reserves for counter-offensive, where ever possible, it relies heavily on man-made structures to impede the offensive of Blue Land forces.
The above means,that since the GAP has formidable man-made obstructions, this is not the location of strike that Red land has in mind. Also where ever it is planning the strike to be located should have significantly lower man-made obstructions, hence no DCB, & probabl no canal, else a good bridge system across the canal, as has been already colloborated by Rohit's statment, quoted in my previous post.
d.RLF Reserves are located 60kms south of the Zariwalan City to west of the Ridge and presently committed to some other tasks. They can reinforce the sector in 48hrs from the time the requirement is given. However, this would mean that RLF strike will have to be called off mid-way.
If taking out red reserve south means that the RLF strike will have to be called off, this suggests quite strongly that RLF was planning to strike from the location, where RRS is. Else if they were planning a strike from North of the ridge, taking out RRS , which is located in the south of the ridge, should not reduce the strike groups strength and result in it being called off. Hence the deduction that south of the ridge is where RLF is planning the strike.

Hence BLF should attack there, which should be facilitated by the lack/lesser amount of man-made obstruction. Hold the anvil on the face of Red Strike elements, move the hammer between the ridge & canal to head for the Gap.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by rohitvats »

bmallick - To given you an example, the DCB and Canals in case of India and Pakistan run parallel to the border. But that does not stop the Strike Formations from both side to launch assault in these areas. Since, the Strike Formation is crossing the Canal and DCB at its place and time of choosing, it is not a problem. The drawback here is that once a formation crosses a canal, its intention and line of advance can be calculated. For example, crossing of India Gandhi Canal in Rajasthan by II Corps is considered as declaration of offensive intent and based on where the canal is crossed, to some extent gives the likely axis of advance.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by bmallick »

rohitvats wrote:bmallick - To given you an example, the DCB and Canals in case of India and Pakistan run parallel to the border. But that does not stop the Strike Formations from both side to launch assault in these areas. Since, the Strike Formation is crossing the Canal and DCB at its place and time of choosing, it is not a problem. The drawback here is that once a formation crosses a canal, its intention and line of advance can be calculated. For example, crossing of India Gandhi Canal in Rajasthan by II Corps is considered as declaration of offensive intent and based on where the canal is crossed, to some extent gives the likely axis of advance.

Ok.

What this means that in the current scenario the terrain on the south of the ridge, does have DCB & Canal. Which means any crossing by BLF on this section too would be fiercely contested.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by rohitvats »

NOTE:
The RLF observers on the Ridge and forward elements on DCB have seen unusual amount of activity in the BL opposite the Z-Sector. While the Z-Sector Commander is confident that it is impossible to breach his defences w/o trigerring the movement of RRS, his superiors think that it is better to be cautious. Hence, the sector has been reinforced with a Tank Regiment and an Infantry Battalion.

The Orbat of Z-Sector reads as thus -

Re-inforced Infantry Bde x 1 - 4 x Infantry Battalions
Armored Regimentss x 2 - 90 tanks
Light ATGM Battalion x1 - 48 launchers
Organic Artillery - 2 x Medium Regiments (36 guns of 155mm caliber)
Fire Support on priority from Corps Artillery Bde - at least 2 x Medium Regiments.
Cobra Gunships remain a wild-card (at least 2 flights@ 3 gunships each).
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by bmallick »

Rohit, are the Armoured regiments to the east of the ridge or are located to the west of the ridge. Also where are the 4 infantry battalions located. Are they dispersed to the east of the ridge, on the ridge or between the Canal & Ridge.
The ATGM battalion I presume is on the ridge.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

People have made interesting (and sane) assault plans here already. So let me get back to a bit of disco-giri.

Shiv has raised three concerns - [1] do not build up too much before hand allowing RLF to do so as well [2] not to trigger the RLF RRN too early, and [3] deal with the canal flooding. Here is an attempt to deal with these.

===

FORCES
Forces on the front
  • - An Infantry brigade worth of forces roughly equivalent to the RLF defenses in the gap (in the preexisting peacetime station).
  • - Infantry Bde as reinforcement for the initial breakthrough

Breakout Forces, In the area, on call
  • 1 RAPID worth of forces + plus 1 Engg Bde

The assault would be coordinatd by the following HQ
  • - A division HQ sized command group
  • - attached HQ element equal to Indp Art Bde HQ for coordinating fires
  • - Coy or two of traffic control specialists/MPs


Other offstage Actors
  • Strike Corps - The McGuffin or the payload. To transit our fulda gap intact. Passengers as far as we are concerned.
  • Substantial Air Support 2-3 strike Sqns on call (bisons, cats and a few 2Ks) plus whatever is necessary for air superiority in this sector.
Note:
The artillery command group under the assault HQ will control fires from the Bde art assets from the holding Bde, the breakthrough Bde, the neighbouring Bde's from the left and right flank, as well the divisional and corps assets (all tubes within range kind of deal). They also have on call a Smerch Regiment innocently sitting 50km away. Not all will be used all the time, but certain preplanned fires missions will use all of these seperately or together at various times. Attempt is to mass fires without massing forces - these stunts can't really be pulled off unless forces regularly train for this so I am handwaving this issue away by assuming a special Art HQ Group with signal and liasion people in all neighboring formations to coordinate fires.

OP TIMELINE
Day-4 or Day-3
- Fake General offensive a few days along the IB, this means all holding corps will make local attacks and raise a ruckus.
As part of this operation the holding brigade also cleans up the defenses this side of the DCB (like all the other brigades along the IB) and digs in in small numbers along the DCB.
These troops are out of their own protective bunkers will be hit hard by mortars as well as artillery. Artillery duels and counter battery fires occur to protect them. The BLF is careful not to destroy more than 50 percent of the RLF heavy artillery while steadily topping up its own losses. BLF artillery replenishment takes care to never significantly exceed the holding brigades TOE.
- BLF ocassionaly light off pyrotechnics in the logistics areas to encourage the RLF that their artillery is still hitting hard, generate decryptable signal traffic requesting large medivacs, or bringing forward entrenching/constuction materials (suggesting BLF wants to dig in)
- At a point 10 kms or so upriver of the gap a heavy force of aircraft will strike the Canal with heavy bombs and attempt to put multiple breaches, reducing or eliminating flow down the Gap in the ZW sector. Another strike 15-20km downriver of the ZW Gap before another likely assualt point. A failed strike is also lauched just upriver of the the ZW Gap - with bombs carefully missing the Canal. Where exactly the strikes would occur will depend on the topology as well as the location of the feeder streams etc.

D-2 and D-1
the BAF will attempt to precipitate a fairly major air battle in this sector (attack the RRN, attack airbases etc, anything that forces the RAF to run interferance). Nothing specific to the Z Gap as the aerial battlefield will range 100s of kms either side.

D-day early afternoon
- Full on heavy bombardment from all tubes within range of the gap. Bridges over the canal are dropped, roads and major lines of comm are cratered, mined are scattered (AP/AT mines with various sector specific self-destruct times) impeding communitations between the three zones (BCD, Canal and ridge's rear).
- Quick BDA followed by a bison strike on any surviving bridges etc. HV and targets of opportunity hit.
- if RLF's armor has not been dispered yet or taken cover on positions on the rigde then airstrikes, tube and rocket artillery to hit the concentration areas.
- Assault Bde's lead battalion and and elements of armor regiment in close support move up and assault the DCB. If some of them fail engr/inf reserves are called up to reinforce or retry elsewhere.
- On sucessful breech, infantry forces push over the bund and then hold, armor left behind on the west side of the bund.
- Second Infantry Bn with some demol engrs move up to help reduce the defenses behind the DCB by rolling up the flanks and dealing with counter attacks. The op tempo assumes this can phase can by night fall.

D-1 Night
- Engr will do their more formal dance at night. Behind a cleared section of the canal the bridge engineers will lay scissor bridges (this is pretty fast). At other sections the construction engrs with heavy dozers etc will also do the BBD routine, with dozer grading, pushing rubble into the canal to form a rubble filled crossing (there should be not much water flow now). If this works out you have multiple crossings available to either increase your traffic rate over the BCD or free up the scissors for the next gap crossing (also to ensure that some crossing survive the inevitable counter-bombardment).
- while this is going on, another inf Bn, and the armored regiment plus the MCM forces cross the bund in that order. Engrs to reduce the minefields in seclected assault lanes with overpressure charges and rocket lines.
- as soon as possible, infantry Bn on foot with the armor regiment in close support will advance clearing towards the canal the necessary strongpoints in their way under the cover of artillery fire/smoke to reach the west side of the canal. The battalion will probably be used up clearing the obstacles in the way and clearing and securing the flanks of the assault lanes.

D+1 Dawn.
Assuming the ersatz bridges over the DCB can deliver the volume of traffic fast enough despite RLF interferance I would hope to move up and mass infantry, engr and armor for a classic doctrinaire riverine assault. The art HQ with its massed fire will again come into play here as well as the massive CAS I have on call.

D+1
A fresh infantry Bde is committed once the canal is breached. Slugging match through the ridgegap. Counting on the Artillery/Air preponderance to make the difference. Some infantry again dropped off to secure the very gap itself and clear the rigde lines.

rest of D+1 and D+2
Once the ridge gap is secure the Armor/Mech of RAPIDE is committed, they are to dash up and grab ZWalan. Don't yet know the specifics of the town but assume an Inf Bde is sufficient.

Thats the plan - lets see what happens when plan meets rohitvats. Depending on the response/progress the details of the final day and a half can be fleshed in better.

====

Lessons Learnt already (even before rohitvat spanking)
- DCB is a cakewalk compared to the canal.
- You can never have enough infantry or engineers.
- To sustain an offensive in a short time, you need to move a huge masses of traffic. Breeching is not enough, you have to breech and protect multiple crossings. And also regulate units moving across and through each other under fire so that the whole thing doesnt end up in a confused traffic snarl. I can only shudder to think of orchestrating the movment of a whole strike corps.
- I am thinking this 'consolidated zone by consolidated zone' assault is too slow. Perhaps violence and rapid movement (and taking the implied casualties) might result in lesser overall losses while still keeping to the schedule.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by rohitvats »

bmallick - all the assets, except artillery, are towards east of ridge. The arty is located to west of ridge for obvious reasons.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by KiranM »

rohitvats wrote:NOTE:
The RLF observers on the Ridge and forward elements on DCB have seen unusual amount of activity in the BL opposite the Z-Sector. While the Z-Sector Commander is confident that it is impossible to breach his defences w/o trigerring the movement of RRS, his superiors think that it is better to be cautious. Hence, the sector has been reinforced with a Tank Regiment and an Infantry Battalion.

The Orbat of Z-Sector reads as thus -

Re-inforced Infantry Bde x 1 - 4 x Infantry Battalions
Armored Regimentss x 2 - 90 tanks
Light ATGM Battalion x1 - 48 launchers
Organic Artillery - 2 x Medium Regiments (36 guns of 155mm caliber)
Fire Support on priority from Corps Artillery Bde - at least 2 x Medium Regiments.
Cobra Gunships remain a wild-card (at least 2 flights@ 3 gunships each).
Assumption: Additional RLF Tank Regiment and Infantry Battalion are held in the city as sector reserve along with existing reserve elements.

12) In line with the scenario I posted, counter to above is an airborne deployment by 1 Para battalion (minus 1 company as reserve) to rail/ road intersection in Zariwalan city with Alpha unit of SF serving as pathfinders and forward recon element. Deployment will be at 0hrs. The only catch I see here is my follow up forces need to link up within 48hrs (which by itself is a stretch). Hence, the reserve Para Company to reinforce Paras in Zariwalan city if required.

13) Intelligence reports and Recon photos show cobras in vicinity. Hence, Corps HQ attaches Tunguska AD elements to both the Tank Regiments.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by rohitvats »

^^^With due respect sir - Let me be the Red Force Commander. The Tank Regiment and Infantry Battalion are east of the Ridge in the Z-Sector and available for immediate deployment.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by KiranM »

In that case remove the Para battalion. Corp HQ attaches 2 regiments of Pinaka. Net 3 Pinaka regiments to bombard the area between Canal and gap 12hrs before deployment of 3AA. Also strew anti-tank mines (using artillery and aircraft) fused to self-detonate after 36hrs (by when 1TR should have crossed the canal).

Attachment of Tunguska to counter Cobras remain.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

Some general Observations:

Special Forces and PGMs are not black magic. SoF are very useful for operations deep behind enemy lines - but using them as "super" infantry on the front lines is a murderous waste of resources (unless people mean Ghataks when talking about SoF). How many PGMs does BAF have in its inventory? Can they really use them up to taking out random bunkers and hull down tanks on the front lines?

Helicopters are extremely vulnerable machines. Specially so transport helo. Operating them across the FEBA is going to be very very risky. ALHs are unlikely to be able to carry a platoon and its equipment and supplies need to last 2 days.

Attack Helicopters are like mobile cavalry are designed to dish it out without really being able to take it themselves. They are very useful for a far ranging, deep, slashing one pass and haul ass attacks on armor on the move - for example a mech formation moving up the 4 lane highway to ZTown. Against camouflaged and hunkered down armor on the ridge or treelines, protected with some ADA the helo's are not going to be very useful. You could do that and get away with it if you are a superpower vs 4-world, but not likely in a peer level war.

Personally I feel it is simpler to trust the BAF to keep the skies clear of RAF rather than toking around vulnerable SPAAGs who would most likely end up using all their ammo on ground targets anyways. This is a major offensive, the BAF better find the resources to put CAPs all the time to deal with J-7MPs and Cobra's.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by rohitvats »

For KiranM:

(1) For 10 days until D-Day use UAVs to recon and identify vulnerable fixed targets, ammo dumps, POL, Barracks, troop and armour concentrations, gun positions. Study patterns of patrols at DCB, between DCB & Canal, at canal and between canal & ridge.
Fair enough. And good point. You need to map every bit of pill-box and OP and fox hole and trenches and bridges in Z-Sector.

(2) 1IB deployed at International border along the Z- sector (assuming 10km wide frontline with Zariwalan gap aligned to centre of this frontline)
Again, considering the task ahead and the kind of defenses you’re up against, this seems to be inadequate force level

(3) 5 Days until D-Day start selective and gradually intensifying artillery bombardment at DCB, Canal and ridge.
What is the objective of this? And what is the frequency and duration of the artillery bombardment? Also, if you keep at it for such a long duration, the RLF WLR will pick up the location of the BLF Arty Component, including the alternate firing positions. Like they say, two can play the game. To BLF 3 x Medium Regiments, RLF can reply with 3 x Medium Regiments as well. Plus, RLF may also take out the infra required for BLF to move their forces forward to the concentration and jump-off points. In addition, whatever damage that BLF may do, RLF will have time to remedy a large percentage of that.

And, god forbid, if you happen to breach the Canal or DCB with your artillery barrage, the flat land between DCB and Canal and Canal and Ridge will flood. Your objective is Zariwalan Town – Z-Sector is just the jump off point. How do your mechanized columns intend to reach the Zariwalan gap if the area is flooded?

And finally, whatever makes you think you’ve five leisure days to bomb the Z-Sector? Just look at the timelines: (D-5)+48hrs (Z-sector)+5 days (post Z-sector). Well, you don’t have 3 weeks time to fight the war.


(4) On 2nd night of artillery bombardment (3+ days until Day1) send 2 ALHs to infiltrate 2 platoons of SF halfway between Zariwalan city and ridge. Ingress and egress of ALH will be from neighboring sector.

As explained in the scenario setting, the ridge is average of 600 feet high and runs 50kms on either side of Zariwalan Gap. So, for the choppers to reach at a drop point between Zariwalan City and Zariwalan Gap, they’ll have to ingress at least 50kms North or South of the ridge, turn left/right and then reach the drop point. That is minimum of 70kms of flying one way in the enemy territory? How feasible is this?

(5) Fire smoke rounds to establish smoke screen at the ridge, DCB, Canal and area between DCB & canal. Deploy 2 companies of 3AA using Brigade and Corp level Helicopters behind the canal. Snipers and ATGM teams from 3AA to move towards Zariwalan gap and set up skirmishing points. Bulk of 3AA to move westwards to engage canal defenses from behind, hold bridges, etc.

That is pure fantasy play. Between DCB and Canal and Canal and Ridge, there are organized and mutually supporting defenses with inter-locking arc of fire and fire-support bases. How do you thing an Air-Assault Companies x 2 can land in the middle of such a kill zone? The depth of Canal from the IB is 3.5kms. Any ingress of the helicopters from any direction will be detected by OP on the ridge from miles. These helicopters when they come in to land and off-load troops will be sitting ducks. And if you feel that the smoke screen will blind RLF, then please think what will it do to 3AA? After all, the entire area would have been marked by the RLF on their arty fire charts. Plus, what about the mine field? Sorry, but those 3AA troops and helicopters just got roasted and toasted.

The Z-Sector commander just gave orders to be ready to blow the bridges on the Canal and prime the explosives to breach the Canal and DCB.

And the first signal just went out to RRS to start diverting troops up north.


(6) Simultaneously, 1IB to assault DCB at 4 points along the 10km front. Using thermobaric ATGMS to suppress bunkers and mortars to suppress prepared firing positions of Red ATGM/ RPG teams. Engineers to breach/ bridge the DCB. One of these 4 points will serve as axis of advance. 4 points keeps the Red Sector commander guessing.

OK. So, you needed 12hrs to secure the east bank of DCB, establish a bridgehead and manage to bring forth your bridging equipment.

As far the RLF are concerned, the DCB has done its job. It was being held by a screening force from the RLF with express objective of delaying the BLF advance. The RLF forces have withdrawn to the rear behind the Canal. But the DCB has been breached. And the whole area between Canal and DCB is mined.

This means that the advance of BLF armored columns is restricted to along the paved or semi-build roads. These have been sighted well by the RLF – both the ATGM Teams and Tanks and artillery. Also, since the infantry assault happened across the front at four points – your infantry is dispersed. This means that you basically have little or no reserve apart from a single Mechanized Battalion. And since all these intent to move towards the Zariwalan Gap, they will move or converge towards what is like the base of a funnel (BLF- >) which means, a shorter and more densely contested Z-Sector.

Also, since you’ve not mentioned anything in this regard, BLF during bridging and crossing continue to come under artillery attack from RLF Arty taking toll on men and material. Plus, BLF have already lost a certain percentages of forces in attempt to take DCB.


12hrs +
(7) Once 1IB secures a bridgehead, 1TR to advance towards the Canal with 4MB (minus 1 company) behind. With 3AA assaulting behind and armored assault from front canal to be subdued and bridged at a localized point of superiority.

The 3AA has been roasted and toasted. 1TR and 4MB advance over open ground (distance between Canal and DCB-3.5kms) and that too in restricted zone due to minefield and water logging. Subject to fire from RLF Artillery (5xMedium Regiments – 90 guns). Using sustained rate of fire of 8 rounds per minute, over a half hour period, the RLF Artillery can drop ~20,000 rounds.

24hrs +
(8 ) 1TR crosses canal and moves towards Zariwalan gap to setup a defensive picket line. 2TR and rest of 4MB starts to cross DCB and move towards breached canal section.

9) Aim is 1TR, 2TR (minus 1 platoon) and 4MB minus 1 company to dash towards Zariwalan city. 1 company of 4MB and 1 platoon of 2TR to serve as rearguard of advance.

10) Rest of 3AA can be heli landed close to canal to keep the red forces tied down at canal.

11) 1IB if possible to exploit forward advance over DCB towards Canal from the remaining 3 points of DCB breach.

Nothing is left to even reach the east bank of canal. The mission is a failure.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Pranav »

Haven't read all the posts ... but one suggestion is to use maneuverable Prahaar missiles to avoid weapon-locating radars.

Also deploy swarms of mini-UAVs to locate enemy gun positions. Do we have UAVs that can do real-time acquisition of target coordinates with sufficient accuracy to hit with Prahaar / guided artillery shells?
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Pratyush »

bmallick wrote:apparently DRDO has created a small explosive device for clearing Bunds.
http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/pub/techfocus/oct1999/bund.htm
I was wondering who would bring out the DCB Blaster.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by shiv »

:D Rohit the Red commander has moved the goalposts ( a perfectly legitimate thing to do) and had introduced a formidable defensive force.

Badar in your post above are you assuming that the area between DCB and canal is not flooded? Did you say the armor will wait in the area till D day night to cross the canal. For the latter it would mean an assumption of excellent success of bombardment of Red defensive forces. That in turn you mean knowing exactly where they are. Maybe UAVs, maybe recce with manned aircraft.

The other thing I am trying to figure out is if there is any way of helping tanks move along slushy semi flooded areas? I had a video below of IA jawans unrolling long metal sheets which (to me) look like just the thing for the job. Must try and locate the video - it was one of the IA exercises recorded from TV
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

Nothing is left to even reach the east bank of canal. The mission is a failure.
Jeebus! I have the same feeling I used to have in school before the report card and subsequent inevitable caning!
Badar in your post above are you assuming that the area between DCB and canal is not flooded?
Yes, I assume I have successfully breached the canal with bombs 10km upriver (the one I really want) and created a flood there, another 10 downriver (just to suggest that there might be another crossing downstream), and fake another attempt just upriver of Z-sector as if I tried and failed so maybe Red Commander might think I failed and wont try for a push in this sector. I am just trying to be too clever by half, rohitvats is probably going to dispassionately look at effects rather than intents and calmly push the red alarm button :)
Did you say the armor will wait in the area till D day night to cross the canal.
My armor never crosses beyond the DCB " - On sucessful breech, infantry forces push over the bund and then hold, armor left behind on the west side of the bund." The strongpoints between DCB and canal have to cleaned up the hard way by infantry and engineers. I am assuming a horrific rate of consumption of ATGM missiles which are a lot more useful for bunker busting than artillery.

Also, it's less a matter of waiting and more a matter of giving myself time to clear the nests of strongpoints between the DCB and the canal as well as time to bring up a brigade and a half of assets using three or four dinky crossings under fire (my first big vulnerability). The toughest part I can foresee will be the canal crossing, it is going to cost an arm and a leg with his armored regiment coming into play to wrinkle out any crossing and busting up the engineers. It will be only to support this crossing that my armor will dash from the DCB to the Canal line (two amd regiments of the two inf Bde's, not the RAPID formations). I am hoping a night crossing might be cheaper.
it would mean an assumption of excellent success of bombardment of Red defensive forces. That in turn you mean knowing exactly where they are. Maybe UAVs, maybe recce with manned aircraft.

As for recon, My forces have probably spent the last 40 years since the last major war studying that sector. Hell when an individual soldier gets the runs his counterpart probably knows and sends him a get well letter (and vice-versa). The op positions, alternates etc are mapped to hell and back (for both sides). My forces were watching when those defenses were built and probably know which Major of the engineers stole how much cement during the construction. This knowledge does not necessarily translate into meaning I can neutralize all or even a majority of them with artillery bombardment.

Naturally I am assuming that sufficient assets are deployed to monitor the battle with UAV, aircraft etc, that goes without saying (as is the enemy). Both will be trying to counter that as well. But if we go into that detail it becomes too complex and rohit wanted a overall complete plan. If you wish we can go sector by sector (but looking at poor KiranM I don't think this assault will get that far :( )
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Singha »

while both sides are snooping and preparing for a confrontation in the night, while artillery periodically blasting away in both directions...

around 2am a ghostly series of white flares is fired and floats slowly down. RLF OP posts get into high alert and train their binocs and thermals at BF lines to detect this new CT. they spot no hostile movement, infact less than normal activity, as everyone seems to have gone to ground.

at 25,000ft in the sky, above the dark scudding clouds...three C130J are flying wingtip to wingtip down the length of the canal....they soon assume a serial formation, with 500m gap nose to tail...

the lead pilot checks his colour moving map and says on low power radio to his mates "now comrades ... now..."

the rear ramps slide open silently on hydraulic bearings and each plane first releases a drogue parachute which pulls out a huge main parachute that drags out on a wheeled sled a giant cylindrical black object secured with multiple straps....the three objects disappear off in the darkness, each release timed to land 1km laterally from the next one....

on one of them the faint white chalk mark of the armourer team is visible - "ammi's biryani - love from BDL hyderabad"

the ramps slide closed and the C130Js jerk up, go to full power and bank sharply into BF airspace...watched by a pair of escort fighters higher up at 45,000ft.

a few minutes later the dark parachutes , unseen due to the effect of the white flares affecting night vision...reach a height of 500ft and radio altimeters trigger the three 15,000lb daisycutters, packed with close to 7 tons of high explosive cocktail - each.

the first one goes off with the effect of a tactical nuke - destroying everything in a 1km radius with overpressure effect....collapsing the roofs of concrete bunkers, overturning tanks, and blowing everyone's eardrums out. a family of wild pigs runs squealing off into the darkness...a solitary white feral horse with burning mane races like a beast of the apocalypse through the wreck of the camp....

25 kms away a blind man sitting outside his hut stands up and tells his wife that he has seen a bright flash of light...

the second one and third one explode a few seconds later, creating giant half-spheres of destruction as designed...
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

Singha wrote:reach a height of 500ft and radio altimeters trigger the three 15,000lb daisycutters.

the first one goes off with the effect of a tactical nuke - destroying everything in a 1km radius with overpressure effect....collapsing the roofs of concrete bunkers, overturning tanks, and blowing everyone's eardrums out.
Quoting SBM, himself quoting Major General S Singh in IDR "From a purely military standpoint, it should also
be pointed out that the ditch-cum-bund defences and their network of concrete bunkers
would probably survive a nuclear attack.82 This would render a nuclear attack in this
sector virtually useless".

ref http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE3-6/sbm.doc
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Singha »

while some of the troops would be in secure bunkers (are they secure against overpressure? the ones I posted were open at the back perhaps to be protected with sandbags in war), the artillery, tanks, IFVs, some supplies , vehicles, mortar pits , trench lines would offer no real protection against a daisycutter or any airburst MOAB type calling card.

eqpt and infra is useless without people. scare the crap out of people and you have a 1-0 lead to work on.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

You will be better off throwing chemical weapons to kill the men in the strong points. The question is do you want to go there.

Alternatively the cheap but time consuming option is that you just use medium range SACLOS ATGMs with thermobaric / Shaped charges warheads against the strong points. Breaching and killing the men inside, while your 20mm / .50 snipers try to kill the machine /ATGM Gunners of the opposition. From long ranges.

While this is happening, your deep strike forces are hitting the second echelon forces of the enemy, trying to prevent them from regrouping and sidestepping your assault.

This is assuming I don't get spanked by the pros on this thread.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Singha »

I fully realize the daisy cutters are not some golden bullet, but they will cause enough damage in a wide radius where they land....for psyops and demoralizing the troops in trenches nothing better exists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8uHYTwrFsQ (this one is a ground burst, hence not spectacular)

for more targeted attacks we can use all the other things you describe , even tank direct fire....

not to be outdone, the Rus developed a bigger, badder, hairer ape of a moab and a tu160 dropped it ... you know i have a fetish for the tu160
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3Cpnq4wFx0
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

Weather they work very well or not, I would love to drop one on the ridges on either side of the gap as well as one on the Bde HQ just to panic the frontlines thinking they are nukes. Unfortunately we don't have Daisy cutters, MOAB, FOAB etc do we?
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by shiv »

Don't know. What is the stuff that men are unrolling towards the end of this 1 min 9 second video? (And also - what is all the other equipment apart from bridge and men poking for mines presumably?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ThQmWD29LA
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Singha »

i believe they are the mats to permit wheeled vehicles to drive on soft sand. might also serve a 2nd function to clearly mark cleared lanes in minefields.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by shiv »

In an earlier post I had envisaged the possibility of tying to bottle up the area between the IB and the canal by taking out the bridges first and trying to get a foothold in the area to the east of the canal while the forces to the west were made to keep their heads down by some vigorous "tube" bombardment.

Two problems come up
1. The area betwen DCB and canal may be flooded anyway if my earlier plan fails
2. Red commander has smelt a rat and has brought in some serious reinforcements in anticipation of trouble

The chances of my plan failing anyway, combined with Red's extra forces actually make things more difficult and I believe I need to start looking elsewhere.

There is a 5 km distance from the Zariwalan gap to the town itself where the motorway runs. The motorway is the best route for defending forces to have access to the IB. Two extra possibilities occur to me which suggest that I need not abandon the earlier plan of a surprise assault across the IB as I had posted earlier. That attack at best will get my forces up to the canal, but going across may be a tough proposition because of the augmented defending forces and the possibility of flooding.

What needs to be done is to screw the defending forces over and beyond the earlier artillery bombardment that served to keep their heads down while my forces cross the DCB. But I think I would need some serious air power involvement here.

The thing to do is to two fold. While one set of my forces mount an attack across the IB and cross the DCB in the east, I will need air power to cut off all supply to Red forces from Zariwalan and all hopes of evacuation of casualties. Perhaps that means cutting off a 4 lane motorway. If there are any convenient bridges they need to be hit initially by PGMs and taken out. Maybe SF ops also? Near continuous air presence over the area must take out all traffic. In the absence of convenient bridges the access to Red forces must be stopped if needed by cratering the roads and peppering the access with cluster munitions, legal or illegal. Red's defensive forces should be bottled up between motorway and canal. That would not remove their ability to fight for 48 hours, but the idea is to delay them from turning back towards Zariwalan city because once the morotway is blocked, I would have to use special forces to gain control of an open area between motorway and the town to set up a heli landing zone that can be used along with para drops to insert maybe 1000 men and some light vehicles to start moving towards the town, capturing outposts along the way. The defending Red Forces to the west of the canal would now be stuck between having to stop the IB offensive and also having to turn back to rout the relatively iight Blue forces who have landed to take control of the motorway access and approach the town.

If a detachment of Red armor from West of canal breaks past the Motorway block they will chew the asses off the Blue forces who are being airlifted/airdropped in the area, so a lot of effort will have to go in to make sure that any Red forces turning back are effectively stopped using air power.

If all this works - its still a bit of a mess. The Blue armored forces who are occupying the zone between IB and canal still must cross the canal and fight their way through the remaining Red forces to link up with the Blue elements who have started an assault on the outskirts of Zariwalan.

Even on paper my plan looks chancy, but that is the best I can do up to now. What would you do Rohit? If you have not figured out what I am saying just ask and I will dilate on what I have been thinking.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by KiranM »

KiranM wrote: (5) Fire smoke rounds to establish smoke screen at the ridge, DCB, Canal and area between DCB & canal. Deploy 2 companies of 3AA using Brigade and Corp level Helicopters behind the canal. Snipers and ATGM teams from 3AA to move towards Zariwalan gap and set up skirmishing points. Bulk of 3AA to move westwards to engage canal defenses from behind, hold bridges, etc.
rohitvats wrote: That is pure fantasy play. Between DCB and Canal and Canal and Ridge, there are organized and mutually supporting defenses with inter-locking arc of fire and fire-support bases. How do you thing an Air-Assault Companies x 2 can land in the middle of such a kill zone? The depth of Canal from the IB is 3.5kms. Any ingress of the helicopters from any direction will be detected by OP on the ridge from miles. These helicopters when they come in to land and off-load troops will be sitting ducks. And if you feel that the smoke screen will blind RLF, then please think what will it do to 3AA? After all, the entire area would have been marked by the RLF on their arty fire charts. Plus, what about the mine field? Sorry, but those 3AA troops and helicopters just got roasted and toasted.

The Z-Sector commander just gave orders to be ready to blow the bridges on the Canal and prime the explosives to breach the Canal and DCB.

And the first signal just went out to RRS to start diverting troops up north.
The overlapping fields of fire are westwards of canal towards DCB. In your original post you did not mention anything about placements between canal and gap. 3AA is landing eastwards of canal coming up behind the forces at canal who are facing westwards towards DCB.

Read carefully.
I said set up smoke screen at ridge (to blind the MANPADs teams), at DCB (to blind the forward OP), at canal (to blind canal OP) and area between canal and DCB (to give the assumption for canal holders that something is happening Westwards towards DCB and to be alert for anything coming towards them. All this to divert their attention from behind eastwards towards gap where 3AA is landing and taking up positions.) No where have I said smoke between canal and gap. So sir, while canal RLF are blinded 3AA is not. Also Canal RLF will blow up the bridges only after they move eastwards across it. They cannot now since 3AA are taking up positions on the eastward end of bridges and moving westwards bottling them up.

Canal forces will not flood area between DCB and canal with RLF at DCB still present. DCB forces cannot withdraw through their minefield until the smoke clears out (which will be the most intense period of engagement by BLF at DCB). Since there are significant number of troops trapped at DCB and canal, your call to give the orders to flood and blow up bridges trapping them. At least I get to destroy significant portion of your force.

Also when I say 'smoke at DCB/ Canal' it includes the OP positions/ bunkers on eastern and western bank of canal/ DCB, so DCB cannot see ALHs making an ingress to deploy 3AA and their sound masked by engagement by BLF at DCB. Probably only Canal forces will hear (and not see) by when it will be too late to search and acquire to target ALHs.
KiranM wrote: (6) Simultaneously, 1IB to assault DCB at 4 points along the 10km front. Using thermobaric ATGMS to suppress bunkers and mortars to suppress prepared firing positions of Red ATGM/ RPG teams. Engineers to breach/ bridge the DCB. One of these 4 points will serve as axis of advance. 4 points keeps the Red Sector commander guessing.
rohitvats wrote: OK. So, you needed 12hrs to secure the east bank of DCB, establish a bridgehead and manage to bring forth your bridging equipment.

As far the RLF are concerned, the DCB has done its job. It was being held by a screening force from the RLF with express objective of delaying the BLF advance. The RLF forces have withdrawn to the rear behind the Canal. But the DCB has been breached. And the whole area between Canal and DCB is mined......

....Also, since you’ve not mentioned anything in this regard, BLF during bridging and crossing continue to come under artillery attack from RLF Arty taking toll on men and material. Plus, BLF have already lost a certain percentages of forces in attempt to take DCB.
I am going to keep the area between DCB and canal smoked until BLF bridges and moves across DCB. So sir, RLF at DCB are not going anywhere. As mentioned above, with the forces trapped no flooding or withdrawal takes place. I have mechanized engineers (which I mentioned) with flail tanks and armoured dozers to clear a path through the minefield for me. My 3 Pinaka regiments are doing counter artillery with WLR support 0-48hrs.
KiranM wrote: 12hrs +
(7) Once 1IB secures a bridgehead, 1TR to advance towards the Canal with 4MB (minus 1 company) behind. With 3AA assaulting behind and armored assault from front canal to be subdued and bridged at a localized point of superiority.
rohitvats wrote: The 3AA has been roasted and toasted. 1TR and 4MB advance over open ground (distance between Canal and DCB-3.5kms) and that too in restricted zone due to minefield and water logging. Subject to fire from RLF Artillery (5xMedium Regiments – 90 guns). Using sustained rate of fire of 8 rounds per minute, over a half hour period, the RLF Artillery can drop ~20,000 rounds.
3AA is still in action as described above.
KiranM wrote: 24hrs +
(8 ) 1TR crosses canal and moves towards Zariwalan gap to setup a defensive picket line. 2TR and rest of 4MB starts to cross DCB and move towards breached canal section.

9) Aim is 1TR, 2TR (minus 1 platoon) and 4MB minus 1 company to dash towards Zariwalan city. 1 company of 4MB and 1 platoon of 2TR to serve as rearguard of advance.

10) Rest of 3AA can be heli landed close to canal to keep the red forces tied down at canal.

11) 1IB if possible to exploit forward advance over DCB towards Canal from the remaining 3 points of DCB breach.
rohitvats wrote: Nothing is left to even reach the east bank of canal. The mission is a failure.
As explained above due to 3AA still being active and movement of RLF armour between canal and gap being restricted due to strewn Pinaka mines, to me the action is till on.

In general, due to my lack of knowledge the strength and timelines planned by me might be off so I request the gurus to help me out in this regard. My intention is to have offensive force levels which can overcome the defenders at a single point/ axis of assault, but not large enough to make an attack a surety for the RLF commanders while this force is being positioned in BLF land.

As for RLF artillery doing counter bombardment, preceding 0hrs that needs to be factored in. How I do not know. Again the gurus can help.
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Singha »

> Unfortunately we don't have Daisy cutters, MOAB, FOAB etc do we?

officially we dont. but all daisycutters were dropped by the MC-130, and we have the C-130J now with the drogue parachute kit and sled to airdrop routine supplies. it should not be difficult for BDL/HEMRL to put together such a device....once the sled clears the aircraft, the bomb itself seems to deploy the main parachute and it tears the straps off, with the sled free falling away the bomb + main parachute going down nicely. radio altimeter is routine - every artillery shell has them.

a couple of them hitting near the peak of tiger hill in pre-dawn hours would have been good to demoralize people also.

we could do dry runs on maoist or NE rebel camps located by the searcher UAVs or humint sent for the purpose. or maybe do it in the next IAF firepower demo to send a message that we are just waiting for the next chance to drop this on someone's head. maybe some pirates will take over a laccadive atoll, or a troop of maldivian jihadis will take over a outlying island with no other humans.
Badar
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

GD, the hardest part is the bomb itself, not the delivery system. Getting a nice big even dispersal before ignition seems to be not that simple specially for a large weapon like the MOAB. It's not ultra-hard but not simple either.

Regarding BDL etc do we have the expertise in this area of explosives (FAE/TB)? I don't know. Plus these resources (talent rather than money) will be at the expense of some other program (law of finite resources). Is the ROI justified? I am not arguing against you mind, just questioning how likely we might be to develop a niche weapon like this.

rohitvats, I am modifying/amplifying my plan a bit in response to the points you have raised and it will be up soon enough. If possible I'd rather you respond to the newer one.
Badar
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

I was looking in the cubboards for stuff which I can use to throw at rohit and low and behold...

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORC ... rding.html
"Provides good fordability in shallow water up to 1 meter."

Please note that this is useless for the assault phase. This is a tool intended for the construction engineers and not the combat engineers.
shiv
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by shiv »

^^Ah Badar - so the slush can't be crossed with this then?

About use of MOAB type bums..
1. What would be the indicator/s that they had done their job?
2. What if they fail? What back up plan is there?
Badar
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Badar »

Shiv, I don't think shallow water flooding will not stop tanks - more than a few will be mired, the rest slowed down and the maintenance people will have an headache later on due to engine wear tear because of all the pull power grinding of the engines/trains all day long. But they will negotiate the mud and slush. You will lose a lot more men and armor because of bogging down, but it wont make the assault itself impossible. AVREs will surely earn their pay.

The secondary and probably more useful from Rohit's point of view is the fact that he has flooded the critical choke point across which the whole Strike Corps plus supporting units will have to ingress. It is also likely that in the initial few days most of the logistics to support the assault will move through this area - my tanks have tracks, but my trucks don't. The mats will help in that respect, but that part is beyond the scope of this exercise.

If the MOAB question is directed at me, I am not using any MOABs as I don't believe that we have them or they can be delivered with any reliability.
Pratyush
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Re: Conduct your own war

Post by Pratyush »

To the gurus just a nube sawal,

Why is a DCB considered a serious obstacle when an army can deploy tanks that can ford upto 5 meters of water. Or when the ICVs have full amphibian capabilities.
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