And they have a photo of a B2 in the reportputnanja wrote:India planning to procure two more AWACS for IAF: Government
Made me wonder if any of the rest of the report is true - like the AEW&C will be "completed" in 84 months, whatever that means.
And they have a photo of a B2 in the reportputnanja wrote:India planning to procure two more AWACS for IAF: Government
Arre? Hawaai jahaaj hai na? Why split hairs?Prem Kumar wrote:And they have a photo of a B2 in the reportputnanja wrote:India planning to procure two more AWACS for IAF: Government
vasu raya wrote:The Arjun program director's car accident in Rajasthan is probably no accident.
Maybe I was trolling , accidents in desert areas hmm OK, though really don't know the exact circumstances. we know what Iran is going through for different reasons.RajitO wrote:vasu raya wrote:The Arjun program director's car accident in Rajasthan is probably no accident.
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20121219/nation.htm#10A project to develop an indigenous radar warning receiver system for the IAF’s combat aircraft, executed by state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) at a cost of Rs 521 crore, has failed to take-off.
Besides delays, out of the 336 systems developed by BEL, only 73 could actually be integrated on aircraft and that too seven years after their procurement. Worse, out of these 73 systems, the performance of as many as 69 systems was found to be unreliable or unsatisfactory.
A radar warning receiver (RWR) alerts pilots about the presence/emission of hostile radars, enabling him to employ suitable counter-measures. These systems are deemed critical for mission success as well as for the survival of aircraft in combat environment.
In order to standardise RWRs across the IAF fleet, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) awarded a contract to BEL in 2005 for Rs 521 crore to develop RWRs. These were to be delivered by September 2010 and were to be integrated on 10 different types of aircraft.
The MoD also contracted Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for the integration of these systems of on six types of aircraft at an additional cost of Rs 36 crore. Integration on remaining four types was to be undertaken separately as part of upgradation projects.
Audit scrutiny revealed that while BEL supplied 94 per cent of the RWRs by 2007, a 30-month delay in signing the contract with HAL resulted in the expiry of warranty of the RWRs even before they could be integrated with the aircraft. Till 2012, only 73 RWRs were integrated on just four types of aircraft.
Though the MoD had claimed earlier this year that the RWRs were proven and reliable systems with average serviceability exceeding 80 per cent, audit brought out that just about 5 per cent of the integrated systems functioned effectively.
poor performance
Out of the 336 systems developed by state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited, only 73 could actually be integrated on aircraft and that too seven years after their procurement
Till 2012, only 73 RWRs were integrated on just four types of aircraft
Out of these 73 systems, the performance of as many as 69 systems was found to be unreliable or unsatisfactory
DAMN IT!
HAL had tenders for various HTT-40 parts as late as 1 week back:In September, the MoD summarily scrapped HAL’s proposal to build the HTT-40.
Maybe they are funding this using their own money...indranilroy wrote:But something doesn't add up.
HAL had tenders for various HTT-40 parts as late as 1 week back:In September, the MoD summarily scrapped HAL’s proposal to build the HTT-40.
D/IMM/5461/7R/1037/2012 07 Dec 2012 Request for Quotation(RFQ) for supply of Raw Materials for Hindustan Turboprop Trainer Aircraft (HTT-40) –Development Programme.
D/IMM/HTT-40/5461/03/14161 23 Nov 2012 Development and Supply of Oxygen System for Hindustan
Corrigendurm-01 14 Dec 2012 Turboprop Trainer Aircraft (HTT-40) –Development Programme.
On the contrary its good that MoD has made a quick decision based on the various factors that it considers relevant. MoD is not stringing HAL along the rosy path only for the trainer to be rejected later. HAL has plenty of work going on for them.indranilroy wrote:DAMN IT!
It is bad news, HAL had gone forward with the HTT-40 development. They even had the first metal cutting a few days back. They had a lot of tenders going out.
On the contrary its good that MoD has made a quick decision based on the various factors that it considers relevant. MoD is not stringing HAL along the rosy path only for the trainer to be rejected later. HAL has plenty of work going on for them.indranilroy wrote:DAMN IT!
It is bad news, HAL had gone forward with the HTT-40 development. They even had the first metal cutting a few days back. They had a lot of tenders going out.
Embraer Legacy or Boeing BBJ?keshavchandra wrote:Suu Kyi praises Indian Air Force pilots for being ‘professional’ and ‘sweet’“I enjoyed my time in India thoroughly from beginning to end, particularly impressed by the Air Force Pilots who flew me back. They are the kind of professional military men I like to see,” said the 67-year-old Suu Kyi who was placed under house arrest for 15 of the past 21 years on different occasions.
She added: “They (IAF) are very very sweet. So very soldierly in the best kind of way, officers and gentlemen. ”
wig wrote:BEL’s radar warning systems fail to take off
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20121219/nation.htm#10A project to develop an indigenous radar warning receiver system for the IAF’s combat aircraft, executed by state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) at a cost of Rs 521 crore, has failed to take-off.
Besides delays, out of the 336 systems developed by BEL, only 73 could actually be integrated on aircraft and that too seven years after their procurement. Worse, out of these 73 systems, the performance of as many as 69 systems was found to be unreliable or unsatisfactory.
A radar warning receiver (RWR) alerts pilots about the presence/emission of hostile radars, enabling him to employ suitable counter-measures. These systems are deemed critical for mission success as well as for the survival of aircraft in combat environment.
In order to standardise RWRs across the IAF fleet, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) awarded a contract to BEL in 2005 for Rs 521 crore to develop RWRs. These were to be delivered by September 2010 and were to be integrated on 10 different types of aircraft.
The MoD also contracted Hindustan Aeronautics Limited for the integration of these systems of on six types of aircraft at an additional cost of Rs 36 crore. Integration on remaining four types was to be undertaken separately as part of upgradation projects.
Audit scrutiny revealed that while BEL supplied 94 per cent of the RWRs by 2007, a 30-month delay in signing the contract with HAL resulted in the expiry of warranty of the RWRs even before they could be integrated with the aircraft. Till 2012, only 73 RWRs were integrated on just four types of aircraft.
Though the MoD had claimed earlier this year that the RWRs were proven and reliable systems with average serviceability exceeding 80 per cent, audit brought out that just about 5 per cent of the integrated systems functioned effectively.
poor performance
Out of the 336 systems developed by state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited, only 73 could actually be integrated on aircraft and that too seven years after their procurement
Till 2012, only 73 RWRs were integrated on just four types of aircraft
Out of these 73 systems, the performance of as many as 69 systems was found to be unreliable or unsatisfactory
Like I said in another thread, I am gradually veering around to the conclusion that India is not planning to build a totally domestic MIC. An MIC means that we will have surplus military manufacturing industries and we will either have to make war to keep them in work, or export to nations who will make war. The latter is getting really difficult. I suspect that Indian planners have reached the conclusion that since exporters are falling over themselves to sell and dropping prices to compete with the 50 centers who are eating away the cheapo markets, India is importing arms and equipment left right and center - like a 1980s couple returning from a visit to he Gulf loaded with gods from phoren. And to hell with sanctions. If X does not sell Y will always come drooling.Vipul wrote:MoD rejects HAL's proposal to build basic trainer.
“Why should we pay HAL Rs 60 crore per basic trainer, when we can buy proven trainers from abroad for Rs 30 crore?” an MoD official told Business Standard.
“We would be willing to pay higher rates to build indigenous capability in strategic defence equipment. But can HAL argue that the capability to build basic trainers is strategically vital,” noted the official.
I think the Comms. Sqdn which flies these VVIP aircraft also ferries foreign dignitaries when they visit India.Singha wrote:I thought BBJ was reserved for the highest and mightiest of the land like MMS, The Family and so on...true kommanders of the legion, not foreign guests.
Pardon me if I am reading you wrong but you make it sound like the baboons are doing a favour to India by killing Indian MIC with there nonsensical thinking.shiv wrote:Like I said in another thread, I am gradually veering around to the conclusion that India is not planning to build a totally domestic MIC. An MIC means that we will have surplus military manufacturing industries and we will either have to make war to keep them in work, or export to nations who will make war. The latter is getting really difficult. I suspect that Indian planners have reached the conclusion that since exporters are falling over themselves to sell and dropping prices to compete with the 50 centers who are eating away the cheapo markets, India is importing arms and equipment left right and center - like a 1980s couple returning from a visit to he Gulf loaded with gods from phoren. And to hell with sanctions. If X does not sell Y will always come drooling.
At least that is what things look like to me...
It won;t be long before China offers us arms.
+1Victor wrote:A proper company would have known decades ahead of time that the old trainer they made would require a replacement in 'x' years and they would have the project at least on the drawing board, ready to go when needed. Not so HAL. They sat back after delivering the HT-2, Deepak and HJT-16 and twiddled their thumbs, allowing the valuable experience to dissipate. As a result, HAL (and MoD) had a sudden 'oh oh!' moment when the IAF was forced to ground them after decades and rush to import. Did they really think trainers would last indefinitely for hundreds of years or were they sleeping on the job?
No wonder IAF wanted to take over HAL. It is our misfortune that the babus and politicians prevented it and we will pay the consequences for decades now.
Shivji, not sure if I understood it right but the way I look at it, its better that HAL focuses on making 3-5 products right rather than trying to get its hands in all the pies. So, while aspiring for a totally domestic MIC is surely a good thing, lets first get those 3-5 things right rather than running everywhere and not achieving anything.shiv wrote: Like I said in another thread, I am gradually veering around to the conclusion that India is not planning to build a totally domestic MIC
Not sure how you got that idea. I don't recall mentioning baboons - unless you mean babus and not sure what part of my statement sounds like I think they are doing India a favour. You seem to think that I said that.Sagar G wrote: Pardon me if I am reading you wrong but you make it sound like the baboons are doing a favour to India by killing Indian MIC with there nonsensical thinking.
Yes I meant that onlyshiv wrote:Not sure how you got that idea. I don't recall mentioning baboons - unless you mean babus and not sure what part of my statement sounds like I think they are doing India a favour. You seem to think that I said that.
No they are hurting Indian interests. Our fighter pilots will get there basic training on foreign imported aircraft's and this is not something to pride about. HAL tries to do the right thing and here we have our baboons questioning whether it is "strategically" important or not !!!! By this logic we must also not maintain any army, mercenaries are also available why waste money on such "non strategic" resources ???shiv wrote:Do YOU think they are doing India a favour? What is your opinion?
I think Indian requirements are itself so huge that we can maintain an MIC comfortably, what we see in the west is a result of greed rather than a necessity to maintain there MIC. India does exports in defence as well, not much in the niche market but where have we developed such technologies before we can think of exporting them. So unless and until not given a chance we will never come to know what will happen to our MIC if the view given by you is the line of thinking in the decision circles. It's like giving up even before starting.shiv wrote:I don't know if they are doing India a favour or not. The reason I am undecided about that is because I am certain that an MIC will die in the absence of war. You cannot have an MIC and not make war or export arms to war-fighting nations. India is neither making war nor showing any inclination (let alone capability) to export materiel to war fighting nations. And the list of arms exporting countries is getting more and more crowded. MICs need to earn money by war. How would that pan out for India? Is India going to start waging wars suddenly (other than in defence?). Are we suddenly going to wake up and say "Let's get PoK or Tibet? Or "Lets get Somalia?"
People deserve the consequences of the choices they make, Indians seem to love taking the hard path before coming to there senses.shiv wrote:Not only do I not see that happening, I have seen no hint that India as a nation is throwing up people/governments who feel that way and I am talking of observations (of Indians actions) over 30 plus years. It's not just Khangress. It's Indians, hurtful as that may sound to some.
Indian society needs to develop much more before we start seeing the right people in the right places.shiv wrote:So there seems to be no thought process in the corridors of power that seems to be planning the creation of an Indian MIC. This is an observation. Not a judgement of good or bad.
AS much as I agree with you on MOD not letting HAL have an infinitely long loose rope. The reasons given here are very wrong.Harshad wrote:On the contrary its good that MoD has made a quick decision based on the various factors that it considers relevant. MoD is not stringing HAL along the rosy path only for the trainer to be rejected later. HAL has plenty of work going on for them.indranilroy wrote: DAMN IT!
It is bad news, HAL had gone forward with the HTT-40 development. They even had the first metal cutting a few days back. They had a lot of tenders going out.
HAL is not a babe in the woods and MoD is not a big bad wolf as is the slant of certain news reports.
Prodyut (Das?) wrote: Some babu once did the same thing to ISRO i.e. shot down a proposal. Unfortunately for him he had to tangle with Satish Dhawan who wrote a minute about what would happen if the satellite was NOT funded. The funds were sanctioned.
It is not for a bureaucrat to decide whether the HPTT 40 is going to build aeronautical capability.This should be left to HAL. Without getting onto my favourite hobby horse I maintain that such small "doable" projects are better at building aeronautical capability than "glamour bus" projects which awe the poor chap ( usually another bureaucrat pretending to be an Engineer)so much that he ends up with a mess of high Technology.Like good cooking Aircraft design is not all ingredients- Love and Knowledge has the bigger role.
All the famous fighter designers- Camm,Messerschmitt, Tank. Yakovlev- the list is as long as my arm- started off designing Trainers.
I think HAL should do a Satish Dhawan and tell the Bureaucrat to keep his opinions in his own field of expertise!