Bharat Rakshak

Its hard to deploy Arjun on East front because, the government has not developed suitable road infrastructure there, which leaves only Air transport as mode of rapid deployment(Road transportation of t-90 will be slow as well).

Which aircraft will you use to transport the T-90? There is no evidence that the IL-76 cargo hold is wide enough to fit the T-90. Even the T-72 which is narrower is extremely difficult to fit in it. The C-17 is large enough to carry both the T-90 as well as Arjun. So what advantage does the T-90 give?

And we know who the winner is

I have never once mentioned the Arjun as a T-90 "replacement" in that post. Neither has anybody else on BRF or in DDM. Please look up the difference between "replacement" and "alternative". I'll give you an example. Say the IAF had been inducting the Gripen. Then the LCA would have been an "alternative" to the Gripen while both would have been "replacements" for the Mig-21.

Tanks are non going anywhere on A/cs in any meaningful numbers.

So be it T90 or Arjun, they are not equipped to get to or progress fast on mountainous terrain. Atleast not as well as wheels howitzers,tatra or trucks.

Having no/bad roads on the east essentially doesn't put much emphasis on tanks or tank warfare on the eastern front. That essentially means that against pakistan, we are either so confident with existing tanks or possess enough anti-tank capabilities to not worry about numbers.

Even today Arjun cannot be considered as alternative to T-90 my 2cents

berwal ji,
Considering all the logistics and supply chains are available for both tanks, which are and will be for sure,
What exact modifications/upgrades do you think will make Arjun an alternative to t-90 according to you ? Where does the Arjun lag specifically?

so as per your logic ARJUN is alternative to T-90, (how come an unfinished product be called as an replacement, at the time when the decision was being taken is beyond my imagination)

lets look at today 2012 scenario IA vs PA:
IA (MBT Fleet equipped for night battle)
- T-90 = 700+
- ARJUN = 120+
- T-72M UPG = 700
Total = 1500 approx

PA (MBT Fleet equipped for night battle)
- T-80 = 320
- AK = 600+
- T-85 II= 700+
Total = 1600 approx (even - Al Zarrar is TI enabled but am not counting it)

lets look at today 2002 scenario IA vs PA:
IA (MBT Fleet equipped for night battle)
- T-90 = 100+
- ARJUN = NA
- T-72M UPG = 300+
Total = 400 approx

PA (MBT Fleet equipped for night battle)
- T-80 = 320
- AK = 100+
- T-85 II= 700+
Total = 1000 approx (even - Al Zarrar is TI enabled but am not counting it)

Even today Arjun cannot be considered as alternative to T-90 my 2cents

Do you mean that Pakis have more advanced MBT version tanks than Indians? Some how it is hard to accept.

Capability wise T-90 and Arjun are pretty much ahead on a tank to tank basis against both AK and T80. But the number of units they have that are equipped with the Night fighting equipment is more if the numbers are correct. Though this is less of an issue today then it was a decade ago, it is still inadequate to overwhelm the enemy let alone defeat him.

Arjun mk1 is almost on par with T-90 (some where it lags, some where it is better but overall on par)

There are some serious quality concerns in the present Arjun mk1, which AI has not made public as they don't have a vested interest.

My point of view is why does one want to replace T-90 with Arjun mk2 ?

Are These Chinese tanks? I see a Red Flag.

Can you please point out where Arjun lacks in performance when compared to T-90?

Quality concerns? What have the same got to do with Arjun as a product per se? The T-90 rolling out of Avadi HVF will face similar issues and the article by Ajai Shukla is on record that IA has withheld further orders before they shake down the initial orders absorbed into the IA and find out the QC status. What has this got to do with Arjun?

On the contrary, IA had no qualms to order more T-90 from Russia - when the basic product had issues in the user trial stage itself. So, please take this talk to QC issues and other stuff to people who beat drums about the invincibility of T-90. T-90 and Arjun are both MBT - read that slowly - MAIN BATTLE TANKS - there are meant to serve the same purpose. All this heavy and light MBT is hogwash.

My counter-question is: Why order more T-90? Why not order more Arjun MK1 to replace the older T-72?

The way IA has managed the MBT acquisition and induction, the 1,670 T-90 are given to come into IA service. But to make them the backbone of Armored Divisions when you've a superior product is nonsense. At least, make the formations earmarked for south of Abohar-Fazilka Arjun dominant? But that would be too much to ask for from the IA.

Tanks as movable pill boxes.

I need to understand that better. Where can I find more resources?

In another bull’s eye for the city, a Bangalore-based electronics firm has developed a device which would soon make the Indian Army’s Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) an even more formidable weapon of war.
The indigenous Arjun tank, considered the finest third generation battle tank in the world, will soon be fitted with an ‘Automatic Video Tracker’, a device developed by Deepti Electronics and Electro-Optics Pvt Ltd (Delopt), Kanakapura Road. The device homes in on an enemy target and tracks it until it is destroyed.

Based on Line Replacement Units (LRUs) technique, a state-of-the-art technology, the tracker uses thermal technology to locate enemy tanks and vehicles. The device becomes the ‘eyes’ of the tank as it maintains a constant surveillance for potential targets. Once a target is detected, information is passed on to the gunner, who then launches a weapon to destroy the target. The entire process takes no more than a fraction of a second.

A prototype of the device was successfully tested on Arjun tanks in the Pokhran range, Rajasthan recently. A slightly modified version of the device will be handed over to the army in about a month’s time.

According to M R Sheshadri, director of Delopt, Arjun tanks are currently fitted with a manual thermal imager produced by a French company. It requires the navigator to constantly keep an eye on either the monitor or the view finder to locate enemy targets — a difficult process as both are on the move.

“By the time the information is passed on to the gunner, the target would have escaped,” Sheshadri, a former DRDO scientist, said. “With the thermal imager, the navigator can only track the enemy, but he cannot lock on to it for that perfect strike.”

Considering these drawbacks, the DRDO had called for tenders inviting firms to devise and manufacture a mechanism that would lock on to a target irrespective of its speed and location.

“Once the device locks on to a target, the commander can forget about it,” Sheshadri said. “The tracker will take care of the rest. It collects intelligence inputs like location, distance, range etc and in less than a few milliseconds output is sent to the gunner who then fires a missile to destroy the target. It has zero error. Unlike the earlier mechanism, with this device you can save personnel from fatigue. For instance, the tank commander can attend to some other duty while the tracker locks on to the target.”

An Arjun tank is operated by a four-member crew comprising a commander-cum-navigator, gunner, loader and driver.

While the tracker has been devised to primarily locate targets on land, it is capable of tracking air-borne threats as well.

“Whether the target is in the front or at the rear of the tank, the device can detect any enemy threat and lock on to it,” Sheshadri said. “During trials,
it detected fighter aircraft and missiles at a distance of 25 to 30 kms away. But for terrestrial targets, the army wanted us to limit it to 3km. Israel has also installed a commercial grade version of the product in their surveillance gadgets like air balloons etc. The defence grade has been made available only to the DRDO ,” he said.

Although it can locate a number of targets, the tracker can lock on to only one target at a time. “We are working to incorporate multiple target engaging facility,” said Sheshadri, whose firm took five years to develop the tracker.

In another bull’s eye for the city, a Bangalore-based electronics firm has developed a device which would soon make the Indian Army’s Arjun Main Battle Tank (MBT) an even more formidable weapon of war.
The indigenous Arjun tank, considered the finest third generation battle tank in the world, will soon be fitted with an ‘Automatic Video Tracker’, a device developed by Deepti Electronics and Electro-Optics Pvt Ltd (Delopt), Kanakapura Road. The device homes in on an enemy target and tracks it until it is destroyed.

Based on Line Replacement Units (LRUs) technique, a state-of-the-art technology, the tracker uses thermal technology to locate enemy tanks and vehicles. The device becomes the ‘eyes’ of the tank as it maintains a constant surveillance for potential targets. Once a target is detected, information is passed on to the gunner, who then launches a weapon to destroy the target. The entire process takes no more than a fraction of a second.

A prototype of the device was successfully tested on Arjun tanks in the Pokhran range, Rajasthan recently. A slightly modified version of the device will be handed over to the army in about a month’s time.

According to M R Sheshadri, director of Delopt, Arjun tanks are currently fitted with a manual thermal imager produced by a French company. It requires the navigator to constantly keep an eye on either the monitor or the view finder to locate enemy targets — a difficult process as both are on the move.

“By the time the information is passed on to the gunner, the target would have escaped,” Sheshadri, a former DRDO scientist, said. “With the thermal imager, the navigator can only track the enemy, but he cannot lock on to it for that perfect strike.”

Considering these drawbacks, the DRDO had called for tenders inviting firms to devise and manufacture a mechanism that would lock on to a target irrespective of its speed and location.

“Once the device locks on to a target, the commander can forget about it,” Sheshadri said. “The tracker will take care of the rest. It collects intelligence inputs like location, distance, range etc and in less than a few milliseconds output is sent to the gunner who then fires a missile to destroy the target. It has zero error. Unlike the earlier mechanism, with this device you can save personnel from fatigue. For instance, the tank commander can attend to some other duty while the tracker locks on to the target.”

An Arjun tank is operated by a four-member crew comprising a commander-cum-navigator, gunner, loader and driver.

While the tracker has been devised to primarily locate targets on land, it is capable of tracking air-borne threats as well.

“Whether the target is in the front or at the rear of the tank, the device can detect any enemy threat and lock on to it,” Sheshadri said. “During trials,
it detected fighter aircraft and missiles at a distance of 25 to 30 kms away. But for terrestrial targets, the army wanted us to limit it to 3km. Israel has also installed a commercial grade version of the product in their surveillance gadgets like air balloons etc. The defence grade has been made available only to the DRDO ,” he said.

Although it can locate a number of targets, the tracker can lock on to only one target at a time. “We are working to incorporate multiple target engaging facility,” said Sheshadri, whose firm took five years to develop the tracker.

Exciting upgrade for Arjun Mk2. Israel has also installed a commercial grade version of the product in their surveillance gadgets like air balloons etc. The defence grade has been made available only to the DRDO ,” he said.

looks like its the hunter-killer handoff thing thats found in western heavies but so far lacking in Arjun mk1.

this is part of the mk2 line items for sure.

Hypothetically, the video tracker, if combined with robust IFF with elements of missile seeker that can identify a hidden target and an auto loader can eliminate a lot of headache for the crew. Probably what they can do is to man the tank with three man crew with multi roles (driver/observer) (one can take rest). So, one guy drives, one observes if the systems are identifying right targets and firing and one can be stand by. So the below 50 tonne FMBT speck is ready.

to Hypothetical for me,

video Auto-tracker plotted targets and targets identified plotted by BFSR + robust IFF is the solution to go for. (A BMS which can combine feed from Video tracker and BFSR etc)

for a three man crew, one needs a auto-loader other wise 3 man crew is impossible. (my view)
- Driver duties cannot be clubbed with anything, driver duties are too demanding and drivers vision is immediate ground nor a 360degree observers view.
- Gunner and Commander can be combined but to much to ask for, it need very advanced SW and HW interface, even western world is not near this, its still 10-15 yrs for this to be practical
- If no auto-loader, loader is mandatory.
- Commander/observer and some one to man radio and communication is must.

to Hypothetical for me,

video Auto-tracker plotted targets and targets identified plotted by BFSR + robust IFF is the solution to go for. (A BMS which can combine feed from Video tracker and BFSR etc)

for a three man crew, one needs a auto-loader other wise 3 man crew is impossible. (my view)
- Driver duties cannot be clubbed with anything, driver duties are too demanding and drivers vision is immediate ground nor a 360degree observers view.
- Gunner and Commander can be combined but to much to ask for, it need very advanced SW and HW interface, even western world is not near this, its still 10-15 yrs for this to be practical
- If no auto-loader, loader is mandatory.
- Commander/observer and some one to man radio and communication is must.

A modified version of Arjun-Mark I main battle tank will prove its mettle by firing a LAHAT missile from an Army range this month. The LAHAT (Laser Homing Attack or Laser Homing Anti-Tank missile) is a third-generation semi-active low-weight anti-tank missile. This version was fired from the Arjun tank in 2004. The Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, a DRDO facility at Avadi, designed and developed the Arjun.