Bharat Rakshak

Consortium of Indian Defence Websites
It is currently 25 Jul 2014 00:07

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2389 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 60  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2010 18:27 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Posts: 14000
Location: General Error : Bhery Phamous General !
follow up from C-17 thread.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5291&start=3920

carry on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2010 18:39 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 17 Aug 2009 20:50
Posts: 1720
Location: Land of Oz!
C-17 Globemaster III: AMC's 'workhorse' meeting airlift needs across the globe
Staff Sgt. Nathan Allen, 15th Wing Public Affairs, and Capt. Naomi Evangelista, 65th Air Base Wing Public Affairs

Quote:
Why is it so successful?

Ask any aircrew member or maintainer who are a part of the C-17 mission and most likely they'll tell you the plane is more than a cargo hauler. Because of its multiple roles, they say that is the key to the airframe's success. For example, a C-17 aircrew from the 535th Airlift Squadron at Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam, Hawaii, supported an exercise to assist the U.S. Army with paratrooper training in October. Capt. Mark Fischer, C-17 pilot and aircraft commander for this mission, said the aircraft proved beyond a doubt it is an asset not just for the Air Force, but for joint operations as well.

"This exercise validated the C-17's role as a personnel airdrop vehicle for the Army," Fischer said in an October U.S. Pacific Command news report, acknowledging how the C-17 is designed to airdrop 102 paratroopers and equipment. "In total we dropped 2,349 jumpers in four days. We were out there with the C-130s dropping jumpers out the back every five to six minutes over the drop zone. On our own, we were able to drop almost 600 jumpers in multiple lifts in four hours without requiring fuel," Fischer said.

Design, flexibility and capability may also have something to do with its success. The C-17 measures 174 feet long with a wingspan of 169 feet, 10 inches, its Air Force fact sheet shows. The aircraft is powered by four, fully reversible, Federal Aviation Administration-certified F117-PW-100 engines -- "fully reversible" meaning it is one of the few aircraft in the world that "back up" from wherever it's parked on a flightline. "Each engine is rated at 40,440 pounds of thrust," the C-17 fact sheet states. "The thrust reversers direct the flow of air upward and forward to avoid ingestion of dust and debris."

Additionally, the C-17 -- which operates with a crew of only three Airmen of a pilot, co-pilot and loadmaster -- has a maximum payload capacity of 170,900 pounds and its maximum gross takeoff weight is 585,000 pounds. With a payload of 169,000 pounds and an initial cruise altitude of 28,000 feet, the C-17 has an unrefueled range of approximately 2,400 nautical miles. Its cruise speed is approximately 450 knots.

"The C-17 was designed for multi-role functions," said Maj. Steve Hahn, a C-17 instructor pilot from the Air Force Reserve's 301st Airlift Squadron at Travis Air Force Base, Calif., in a July 2010 Air Force News report. "Its strategic and tactical abilities join the missions of the C-5 (Galaxy) and C-130 (Hercules) into one aircraft. It does everything, and not many aircraft can do that."

'Workhorse' capabilities

Air Mobility Command's mission is "to provide global air mobility...right effects, right place, right time." When looking at the C-17 Globemaster III, AMC officials say the airframe in an great example of how mobility Airmen meet global capabilities. "The C-17 is AMC's workhorse that has strategic legs with tactical capability," states the Air Mobility Command "Core Capabilities" talking paper from November 2010. "The aircraft enables AMC's rapid, strategic mobility airlift."

The AMC talking paper also states the C-17 adds "flexibility and versatility" to a combatant commander's toolkit. "It can deliver C-5 outsize loads into C-130-sized, austere airfields," the paper states. "It's capable of performing direct-delivery missions; going from the Continental United States to austere airfields around the world."

The C-17's flexibility also makes it integral to humanitarian and aeromedical evacuation operations. For example, during Operation Unified Response for Haiti in early 2010, C-17s and their crews were part of an effort that saw mobility airmen deliver more than 13,600 short tons of cargo to that country following a devastating earthquake. They also supported transportation more than 25,800 passengers and movement of more than 280 patients through AE efforts, facts show.

The C-17's capabilities also extend to performing airdrops. In supporting deployed airdrop operations for Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan, C-17s have been a part of a record year in 2010. Through Oct. 31, C-17s and other airlift have airdropped more than 45.6 million pounds of cargo to troops on the ground in austere locations.

As an airdrop platform, a C-17 can carry up to 40 Container Delivery System bundles for a combat airdrop mission. C-17s have also been used with the Joint Precision Airdrop System that guides airdrop bundles to their drop zones using the Global Positioning System technology, and with the Improved Container Delivery System that allows for improved precision by factoring in the altitude, wind speed, wind direction, terrain and other circumstances that might affect the drop.

Building a lasting legacy

The C-17 is the third airlifter to bear the Globemaster name -- following the tradition of the C-74 Globemaster and the C-124 Globemaster II. The first C-17 aircraft delivered to the Air Force arrived at its operational wing, the 437th Airlift Wing, at Charleston AFB, S.C., on June 14, 1993. In AMC's chronological history publication from April 2001, "Poised for a New Millennium: The Global Reach of the Air Mobility Command," it shows the first C-17 operational mission occurred during Operation Vigilant Warrior between Oct. 14-15, 1994. The C-17 departed Langley AFB, Calif., for Dhahran, Saudi Arabia, with a load of vehicles, a rolling command post and supplies for the Army's 7th Transportation Division.

Furthermore, on Jan. 17, 1995, then-AMC Commander, Gen. Robert L. Rutherford, declared initial operating capability for the C-17 and it officially began flying operational missions. Since then, it's been a part of nearly every Air Force operation. Among the operations the C-17 has supported since Vigilant Warrior include operations Joint Endeavor, Southern Watch, Northern Watch, Provide Comfort, Provide Hope, Allied Force, Enduring Freedom, Iraqi Freedom and New Dawn.

Air Mobility Command leaders regularly point out there is an AMC mission "every 90 seconds." As of Nov. 30, there are 204 C-17s in the Air Force inventory and it's quite possible it's a C-17 taking off on one of those missions every three minutes. In its continuing legacy, from the Arctic to Antarctica, the C-17 will most likely continue to be the "workhorse" it has been for 17 years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2010 22:52 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Posts: 296
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka
How many C-17s India needs combined all the forces (IAF, IN, IA & other para military forces).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2010 23:00 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Posts: 12505
Location: In a sad place
None. No C 17s are required. However the tonnage shipment required for future may be met in a wide variety of solutions.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2010 23:14 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28
Posts: 11266
Location: In between wars in our time
lalchix


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 06:32 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49
Posts: 4819
Sanku wrote:
None. No C 17s are required. However the tonnage shipment required for future may be met in a wide variety of solutions.


I learn new things on BRF everyday. Apparently BRF jingos know more about IAF's needs than the ACM who categorically says that they chose the C-17 after thorough consideration. How stupid of me to believe him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 07:45 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 07 Feb 2007 10:10
Posts: 296
Location: Shivamogga, Karnataka
Sanku wrote:
None. No C 17s are required. However the tonnage shipment required for future may be met in a wide variety of solutions.

:-?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 09:20 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 32480
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
leaving aside particular platforms - we need imho:
[a] 200 MTA/C130J sized planes (20t cargo)
[b] 150 AN32 (8t cargo) - its better to have less of this and more of [a]..but there are obscure ALGs where MTA/C130 would find it a stretch.
[c] 75 IL76-upg sized (50t cargo) - including FOAB (10t FAE) delivery sleds
[d] 40 C17/AN124 sized (70-100t cargo) - missiles, TELARs, bulk munitions, EW units, MLRS, artillery, palletized medical goods, spares like engines, attack helis.....
assume a 75% uptime ...force multipliers which will bypass the inevitable damage and pileups on road infra and rush much needed 'turn the tide' gear from depots in central and south india to Leh, Tezpur and beyond...

this is assuming all obligations to support forward logistics in NER, north india but also a couple of airborne brigades to form our first airborne division - base them in central india close to airports like nagpur, gwalior, charbatia, bellary....they can either paradrop directly or transfer to helicopters for the final jump across the line from northern bases. the future A&N marine forces will also need a strong airlift component and Ro-Ro type car-ferry ships, LPDs for easy and heavy logistics.

our transport heli fleet needs serious beefing up to support 'proper' VVD style airborne brigades...perhaps 150 Mi17V needed...and maybe 50 attack helis (LCH)...wsi-dhruv/dhruv for utility duties...

its expensive being the big dog in the region, but leave any vacuum or doubt and PRC will slide right in.


Last edited by Singha on 03 Dec 2010 09:28, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 09:24 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 32480
Location: Col of the regiment, ORR JTF unit
btw I saw some latest pix of Mechuka ALG in east arunachal incl those of a AN32 taking off and IA camp and vehicle towing a 105mm gun covered in green tarp. Seems to be a valley with a small town and a river running down it. there are layers of green forested hills in the back followed by snow capped mountains behind.....so would be a limited airspace and steep slope to get in and out....hopefully it can be upscaled to handle atleast C130/MTA.

if Unkil has spare C130 in the boneyard we should re-engine them, equip with blind flying avionics (usaf likely has them by default) and try to obtain atleast 75 to beef up our upg-AN32 holding....imo it makes sense even to buy new build C130 cargo version asap...the delivery line is open....the MTA will likely take another decade to reach FOC.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 10:19 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13
Posts: 5627
Can we go easy on the No C 17 required emotion please.

Lal mulla,

Can I please have the time line for the Lalchx paid for in advanced with suitcase full of $$.

JMT


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 10:30 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13
Posts: 5627
Singha wrote:
leaving aside particular platforms - we need imho:
[a] 200 MTA/C130J sized planes (20t cargo)
[b] 150 AN32 (8t cargo) - its better to have less of this and more of [a]..but there are obscure ALGs where MTA/C130 would find it a stretch.
[c] 75 IL76-upg sized (50t cargo) - including FOAB (10t FAE) delivery sleds
[d] 40 C17/AN124 sized (70-100t cargo) - missiles, TELARs, bulk munitions, EW units, MLRS, artillery, palletized medical

SNIP......

its expensive being the big dog in the region, but leave any vacuum or doubt and PRC will slide right in.


Saar,

It seems that you plan on invading Antartica. Or on liberating Bejing and freeing our PRC prothers from the opperssion of the CCP.

Please indicate which is accurate. :rotfl:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 10:30 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
nachiket wrote:
Sanku wrote:
None. No C 17s are required. However the tonnage shipment required for future may be met in a wide variety of solutions.


I learn new things on BRF everyday. Apparently BRF jingos know more about IAF's needs than the ACM who categorically says that they chose the C-17 after thorough consideration. How stupid of me to believe him.



Shhh! Boss don't let out BRF's best kept secret! :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 10:41 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
shukla wrote:


Good article but most of the points have been discussed in the erstwhile C17 thread. However, while the C17 thread is enjoying itself with the Lal Chix in jannat, there's one paragraph in this article which caught my eye

Quote:
"This exercise validated the C-17's role as a personnel airdrop vehicle for the Army," Fischer said in an October U.S. Pacific Command news report, acknowledging how the C-17 is designed to airdrop 102 paratroopers and equipment. "In total we dropped 2,349 jumpers in four days. We were out there with the C-130s dropping jumpers out the back every five to six minutes over the drop zone. On our own, we were able to drop almost 600 jumpers in multiple lifts in four hours without requiring fuel," Fischer said.


Pray can Sanku maharaj tell us ignorant Abduls which "other solution" within the "wide variety of solutions" would be able to do that?

Just to ensure there's not too much squiggle room let me clarify exactly what I mean. (I speak from vast experience! :twisted: )

And that is the ability to drop 600 jumpers within 4 hours without refueling. [Why is this important? Because if this is the benchmark then calculate how many troops, say 4 C17s can drop in four hours?]

When we have our next war with Pakistan or have skirmish with the Panda in hard to reach areas of Arunachal, you can imagine what kind of advantage this gives us?

Now waiting for the usual spin bowling while eyeing Lal Mullah's Lal Chix and the ones in white behind. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 11:04 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 23 Aug 2007 15:57
Posts: 12505
Location: In a sad place
Thanks Singha.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 12:26 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Posts: 1070
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat :)
Lal Chix Pic - NDTV


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 12:31 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
Juggi G wrote:


I'm sure they'll be glad to do a live performance when the first C17 is inducted. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 12:55 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Posts: 14000
Location: General Error : Bhery Phamous General !
what's with the lalchix thing in this thread ? :-?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 13:23 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28
Posts: 11266
Location: In between wars in our time
aloha amitbabu
the 600 paratroopers thingie needs to be filtered. IIRC the exercise was launched from Pearl/Hickman bases in Oahu. From there if they are doing paradrops, one would wager a pit roasted pig that it is within the Hawaiian islands and not in Australia, Midway Island, Los Angeles or Tokyo or Fiji. Most likely say on the Big Island - all of which is within 30-40 mins flying time
i wonder if the lalchix know how to dance the hula?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 13:39 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
Lalmohan wrote:
aloha amitbabu
the 600 paratroopers thingie needs to be filtered. IIRC the exercise was launched from Pearl/Hickman bases in Oahu. From there if they are doing paradrops, one would wager a pit roasted pig that it is within the Hawaiian islands and not in Australia, Midway Island, Los Angeles or Tokyo or Fiji. Most likely say on the Big Island - all of which is within 30-40 mins flying time
i wonder if the lalchix know how to dance the hula?


Lal Mullah,

If say we're to drop troopers on the Arunachal border or say (I'm forever the optimist) at Murree, what would be the likely flight times of a C17 from whichever base they fly from? (Unlikely troops would be dispatched from Chennai) :-)

I know this wouldn't apply if we had to paradrop in the Maldives.

Lalchix are quick learners sure they can pick up the hula and hey who looks at the steps when they dance, body movement is everything.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 13:49 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28
Posts: 11266
Location: In between wars in our time
paradrop at skardu
armoured thrust up the neelam valley
anschluss in gilgit
smiling pictures of tank men and paras shaking hands
lalchix gyrating in the streets
oh yes
it will be true


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 13:53 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
Lalmohan wrote:
paradrop at skardu
armoured thrust up the neelam valley
anschluss in gilgit
smiling pictures of tank men and paras shaking hands
lalchix gyrating in the streets
oh yes
it will be true


Atta boy! Lal Chix Zindabad!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 14:07 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13
Posts: 5627
Rahul M wrote:
what's with the lalchix thing in this thread ? :-?



They serve as a useful distraction form the posts condeming the C 17 purchase citing the nonexistant alternatives.

So I say Lalchix Zindabad :rotfl:

Lall mulla Joo habe nat replied to my quary WRT the dilivery schedule.

Bliss update. :((


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 14:11 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28
Posts: 11266
Location: In between wars in our time
i await juggi g's r&d labs efforts to discover more visualisation of lalchix before i can commit to a timeline
my tech demonstrator is ready
looking for industrial strength now


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 14:48 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31
Posts: 10883
BTW I have heard the term "Lalchix" too often to make me curious what does it mean and in what context it is used ?

Those NDTV chicks are good for procreation.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 15:03 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Posts: 5860
Location: Sergeant Major-No.1 Training Battalion, BR Rifles
amit wrote:
<SNIP>

And that is the ability to drop 600 jumpers within 4 hours without refueling. [Why is this important? Because if this is the benchmark then calculate how many troops, say 4 C17s can drop in four hours?]

<SNIP>



What is point you're trying to make? And did a single C-17 airdrop that many troops?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 15:07 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
rohitvats wrote:
amit wrote:
<SNIP>

And that is the ability to drop 600 jumpers within 4 hours without refueling. [Why is this important? Because if this is the benchmark then calculate how many troops, say 4 C17s can drop in four hours?]

<SNIP>



What is point you're trying to make? And did a single C-17 airdrop that many troops?


Rohit,

Before jumping in I suggest you read the article which Shukla posted. The figure of 600 in 4 hours is from there, quoting the C17 pilot and commander. If you have problems with the figure which the pilot gave please dish him and the article not me. :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 15:16 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Posts: 5860
Location: Sergeant Major-No.1 Training Battalion, BR Rifles
^^^And you qouted that article and used the same as basis for your argument - hence, you have to answer for your post and not the author of the article. It is for you to read and make sense of the article and accordingly arrive at a conclusion.

The same article also says that C-17 can airlift 102 paratroopers - care to tell me how can a single C-17 paradrop 600 paratroopers in 4hours? And do you know that IL-76 can airdrop 140 paratroopers? And that it has more overall troops carrying capacity than C-17? So, there exists a solution if you're trying to do what the Amercians did, right?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 15:24 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 10481
Location: India
For those who may have misssed this in another thread.

Quote:
this is the season for the birds to migrate south.I am ecstatic! A little bird told me news of a feathered friend which performed fabulously in the heights in high company.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 15:31 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
rohitvats wrote:
^^^And you qouted that article and used the same as basis for your argument - hence, you have to answer for your post and not the author of the article. It is for you to read and make sense of the article and accordingly arrive at a conclusion.

The same article also says that C-17 can airlift 102 paratroopers - care to tell me how can a single C-17 paradrop 600 paratroopers in 4hours? And do you know that IL-76 can airdrop 140 paratroopers? And that it has more overall troops carrying capacity than C-17? So, there exists a solution if you're trying to do what the Amercians did, right?


OK. So 102 paratroopers per sortie. Which means, if the pilot is telling the truth, 600 troops dropped with six sorties without refueling within four hours.

IL76 with 140 will do so in five sorties - dunno if it will be able to do so in four hours (turnaround time, speed etc) but assume it can. Now the question is depending on distance do you think IL76 would be able to do five sorties without refueling, taking a distance parameter which stipulates an optimal distance where the C17 can do six sorties without refueling?

Now a more fundamental point you got mixed up. The IL76 can carry 140 troops on a ferry mission with double deck sitting. However it can carry only 125 paratroopers since it needs a space allowance to be able to open the rear doors. See here.

An even more fundamental point is, in case you missed it, that the C17 (or the IL76) are bought not just for paratrooper transport. As the article clearly states paradropping in fast and efficient manner is one of the several things the plane can do.

My question to Sanku was that since he claims there are alternative solutions what was the alternative solution - given the framework of other advantages which C17 brings - that can do this while still providing the same advantages that C17 brings to the table - we are not going to buy a plane of that size (both C17 and/or IL76) just for paradropping.

I hope now you understand. Context is everything my friend.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 16:22 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Posts: 5860
Location: Sergeant Major-No.1 Training Battalion, BR Rifles
amit wrote:
OK. So 102 paratroopers per sortie. Which means, if the pilot is telling the truth, 600 troops dropped with six sorties without refueling within four hours.


Can you please tell me what distance a plane will fly and manage 6 drops in four hours - which means that from start-drop-back to base-loading of new batch time per sortie was 40minutes? Unless, it was done only for exercise purpose with marginal distance between airfield and DZ - you think this is possible? And can you apply to any context in our case? So, why stretch the argument for the sake of it?

Quote:
IL76 with 140 will do so in five sorties - dunno if it will be able to do so in four hours (turnaround time) but assume it can. Now the question is depending on distance do you think IL76 would be able to do five sorties without refueling, taking a distance parameter which stipulates an optimal distance where the C17 can do six sorties without refueling?


What is the point of even raising this question when the first one is redundant? Again, please look at the timeline per sortie in case of C-17 and see if the same can be done by IL-76? But lets us do some maths with C-17 numbers in the article:

-no of sorties - 6
-Total time for exercise - 4hours/240minutes
-Time per sorties - 41minutes
-Average speed of a/c during this period - 500kmph (but IMO, this is on higher side but we will let it be)
-distance covered during each sortie - 41mins x 500kmph - 340kms
-Distance covered during entire 4hours period - 340kms x 6--->1,360kms

So, you think IL-76 can fly 1,360kms with the same level of paratroopes?

Another point - 340kms flying distance per sorties means an operational radius of 170kms. You think that is a big deal?

Quote:
Now a more fundamental point you got mixed up. The IL76 can carry 140 troops on a ferry mission with double deck sitting. However it can carry only 125 paratroopers since it needs a space allowance to be able to open the rear doors. See here.


My mistake - it is 126 paratroopers.


Quote:
An even more fundamental point is, in case you missed it, that the C17 (or the IL76) are bought not just for paratrooper transport. As the article clearly states paradropping in fast and efficient manner is one of the several things the plane can do.


And how do you know that IL-76 cannot drop troops in an efficient manner?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 16:27 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28
Posts: 11266
Location: In between wars in our time
pointless discussion boys


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 16:28 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
^^^^
Rohit,
Let me repeat for one last time the context of what I was saying, then I'll let it pass.

Quote:
My question to Sanku was that since he claims there are alternative solutions what was the alternative solution - given the framework of other advantages which C17 brings - that can do this while still providing the same advantages that C17 brings to the table - we are not going to buy a plane of that size (both C17 and/or IL76) just for paradropping.


Do note the point I made was about the additional benefit which C17 brings with this ability.
Now if you want to do mathematical calculations please go ahead.


Last edited by amit on 03 Dec 2010 16:31, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 16:28 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
Lalmohan wrote:
pointless discussion boys


+1 boss. However...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 16:29 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28
Posts: 11266
Location: In between wars in our time
juggi please redouble your efforts to find better pix of lal-chix, the thread needs you!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 16:32 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Aug 2007 18:28
Posts: 3926
Location: Trapped in the TechnoCore
We need everyone to understand the calming effect of the Lal Chix! :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 17:02 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Posts: 5860
Location: Sergeant Major-No.1 Training Battalion, BR Rifles
amit wrote:
^^^^
Rohit,

Let me repeat for one last time the context of what I was saying, then I'll let it pass.

Quote:
My question to Sanku was that since he claims there are alternative solutions what was the alternative solution - given the framework of other advantages which C17 brings - that can do this while still providing the same advantages that C17 brings to the table - we are not going to buy a plane of that size (both C17 and/or IL76) just for paradropping.


Do note the point I made was about the additional benefit which C17 brings with this ability.
Now if you want to do mathematical calculations please go ahead.


It seems you have a short memory. Let me quote what you posted (with all the emphasis):

Quote:

Quote:
"This exercise validated the C-17's role as a personnel airdrop vehicle for the Army," Fischer said in an October U.S. Pacific Command news report, acknowledging how the C-17 is designed to airdrop 102 paratroopers and equipment. "In total we dropped 2,349 jumpers in four days. We were out there with the C-130s dropping jumpers out the back every five to six minutes over the drop zone. On our own, we were able to drop almost 600 jumpers in multiple lifts in four hours without requiring fuel," Fischer said.


Pray can Sanku maharaj tell us ignorant Abduls which "other solution" within the "wide variety of solutions" would be able to do that?

Just to ensure there's not too much squiggle room let me clarify exactly what I mean. (I speak from vast experience! )

And that is the ability to drop 600 jumpers within 4 hours without refueling. [Why is this important? Because if this is the benchmark then calculate how many troops, say 4 C17s can drop in four hours?]

When we have our next war with Pakistan or have skirmish with the Panda in hard to reach areas of Arunachal, you can imagine what kind of advantage this gives us?


So, it seems from the above post - you're belaboring about some "super" paradrop capability of C-17. Can you please show the larger context in the above post that you keep refering to?

Next time you link something to prove your point, atleast go through it and see whether it holds good to support your argument or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 17:04 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Posts: 5860
Location: Sergeant Major-No.1 Training Battalion, BR Rifles
Lalmohan wrote:
pointless discussion boys


No, it is not. I don't think anyone here has leeway in posting BS and getting away with it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 17:06 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 30 Dec 2005 18:28
Posts: 11266
Location: In between wars in our time
yes but the tail chase on proving one's moral point is generally useless


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 18:06 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13
Posts: 5627
Rohit/ Amit guys,

I am scratching my head but distinctly remember that for the 89 edition of vayu shakti that the paradrop capacity of IL 76 was mentioned as 210. This was spoken off when the big birds were demoing the paradrop.

So the 110/126/140 numbers appear to be little suspect.

It was the one in which the Mig 29 flew up side down and took a photo of the pavallion. Which was later shown after developing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Dec 2010 18:59 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Posts: 5860
Location: Sergeant Major-No.1 Training Battalion, BR Rifles
^^^There is an article by Bewoor in the history section of IAF which clearly mentions that IL-76 can airlift 126 paratroopers.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2389 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 60  Next

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Feedfetcher, MahaKaal, RaviKR and 11 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group