Indian Army : News and Discussion

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 10 Apr 2012 22:14

Karan M wrote:The MOD.....

I strongly support the above. An excellent analysis.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Apr 2012 23:07

Hope MOD dont become MOAD =Mother Of All Delays. BP require preventive efforts/ cure before it kill Indian fighting heart .
BP= Babu+Politcian.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Apr 2012 23:47

Jhujar wrote:Hope MOD dont become MOAD =Mother Of All Delays. BP require preventive efforts/ cure before it kill Indian fighting heart .
BP= Babu+Politcian.

They already have become MOAD or rather mad.

There is very little coordination when it comes to weapons procurement or development. As a result there is often absolute confusion between the three wings - production (DPSUs), research & development (DRDO) and the user (services).

The MOD does little to alleviate finger pointing at production & R&D by the user by reforming production (the biggest bottleneck) by involving the private sector en masse or by involving the user as a program manager by setting up a joint development agency across the services, with representation by all three components above).

Either the MOD are shockingly incompetent (despite being staffed by the great IAS) and have deliberately made the system at odds with its purpose, or are very canny.

After all, if the process is smoothly managed & every aspect is covered, where is the scope for emergency purchases at inflated rates or single vendor procurement? How will assorted arms vendors make their coin.

Either ways, whether it be incompetence or deliberate acts of omission by a few vested interests, the situation is not tenable.

India is losing.

Lets take a few examples beyond this APFSDS story.

A decent functional design like the INSAS is now to be ditched for an all new "modern" design from some imported small arms provider. And why was the INSAS panned initially - OFB production & QA issues. The new gun will be made by the OFB as well. So what exactly is the point of just ditching a local design without reforming production?

Our shipyards are amongst the least productive when compared to worldwide peers. What measures have been taken (beyond capital expenditure) to bring them on par? All stalled due to labor dadagiri.

The Tejas program. Per AM Rajkumar's book, a HAL chairperson did not support the LCA project and was to blame for delays. It has also been reported that HAL was more supportive of the IJT (its "own baby") versus the LCA. Even if these issues were subsequently resolved, what about the months, years of delays caused by these acts? What about the IAF Chief being advised by his so called "advisors" not to support the LCA & Rajkumar telling him "sir, this is being developed for the IAF not the PAF"? When the Kaveri was clearly not going to be ready in time, why was ADA not given permission to drop the engine without the Kaveri program not being jeopardized in turn (use it for future requirements).
What exactly was the MOD doing while such issues festered between R&D, production & user, each acting to his/her whims/fancies. The MOD has absolutely failed when it comes to coordinating or leading national programs.

All the MOD seems to be doing today is acting as the source of funds and ensuring the primacy of the civil services types over the services plus making sure electoral groups are appeased (DPSU workers unions are not offended by privatization). Otherwise MOD is a total failure when it comes to seeing that programs of national importance occur as planned by putting adequate structures in place, ensuring coordination, ensuring speedy procurement or meeting national requirements.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Apr 2012 00:14

The scam under INC looks like this. Any tieup of PFB will get delayed till the partner delivers into the off shore bank accounts. To do this they stop/delay production and cause delays. Public outrage ensures increased procurement at jacked up prices.

What IA has to do to send shock waves is say that they need to go nuclear after first four days and NFU is not valid anymore.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Apr 2012 00:46

Defence ministry finds China army profile & Pakistan's take on terrorism as major concerns
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 602991.cms

NEW DELHI: The growing profile of the Chinese army, Beijing's attempts to expand its influence in India's neighbourhood and Pakistan's persistent refusal to crackdown on the terror groups operating from its soil have been identified as major concerns by the defence ministry.The ministry, in its annual report for 2011-12, released here on Monday, pointed out that China had upgraded its military force projection against India through rapid modernisation, but said, at the same time, that the government was "conscious and watchful'' of Beijing's rising military profile in the immediate and extended neighbourhood.The report expressed concern over China's pro-active role in the neighbourhood. "Chinese footprints in India's neighbourhood are increasing progressively due to its proactive diplomacy through political, military and economic engagements," it said. "Rapid infrastructure development in Tibet and Xinjiang has considerably upgraded China's military force projection against India and improved their overall strategic and operational flexibility,'' the reported added. "India remains conscious and watchful of the implications of China's profile in the immediate and extended neighbourhood.''The report said the Army is "fully seized'' of the security scenario and has "identified'' strategically important infrastructure requirements along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) and they are being developed in a phased manner. The report said India has been desirous of cordial relations with China and, "to this end, a policy of positive engagement and maintaining peace and tranquility along the LAC is ensured".Turning its gaze towards the other neighbour, the defence ministry document said a prosperous Pakistan was in the best interest of India, but the "existence of terrorist camps across the India-Pakistan border and continued infiltration attempts along the LoC continue to pose a threat".

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 11 Apr 2012 00:47

Can some guru throw light on how war reserves for ammunitions are calculated and are the calculations being done w.r.t. the two front war scenario ??

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Apr 2012 00:56

ramana wrote:The scam under INC looks like this. Any tieup of PFB will get delayed till the partner delivers into the off shore bank accounts. To do this they stop/delay production and cause delays. Public outrage ensures increased procurement at jacked up prices.

What IA has to do to send shock waves is say that they need to go nuclear after first four days and NFU is not valid anymore.

What I find so ludicrous is that then INC leaders were the one mocking the GF run MOD's Op Vijay procurement in newspapers. They used the CAG report to imply it was all hanky panky. Why, because India purchased these very same APFSDS shells from Israel, because the Army asked for them and even so, the beancounters in the CAG said "infructuous" because "war was being fought in the mountains". Apparently, it escaped their thinking that the war could have expanded beyond the mountains.

Basically, the Congress & successive govt's starved the forces of modernization citing the economy. The NDA came in and set off a massive modernization after the twin shocks of Kargil & the Parliament attack. After that, it has been squenched. And today, the UPA is sitting pretty over an Army which has/had 4 days of stocks of anti tank shells. About the only successes are the local flagship programs - Akash, Pinaka, Agni etc which have come good. Or the handful of long running procurement programs like the Su-30 MKI.

Even so, it was under this same UPA that the attacks on DRDO took place by the "journalism of courage" newspaper. At the same time, incidentally, DRDO et al were acting tough over the DPP policy (recall news reports then) that the offsets should be mandatory for deals above a certain value.

Today, neither is the Army well equipped. The delay in the MMRCA deal, the AJT etc are well known. Former yet to be signed.

And the very same CAG who was used to allege Tehelka-gate and attack the NDA is now persona non grata.

And Tehelka has not run a single "new expose" on the MOD.

The system is now totally rotten when an Army Chief can be offered a bribe and his honesty is called into question when he writes about shortage of war equipment.

Go figure.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 11 Apr 2012 01:03

Karan, that is an excellent analysis of the issues facing arms procurement in India. What is even more alarming is that you could list out so many utter failures without even touching on the disaster that is artillery procurement. Add that to the mix and the situation starts looking really really scary.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Apr 2012 01:35

What I noted, unfortunately, is the tip of the iceberg. Take the cost escalation in the Scorpene contract for example. The manner in which a helicopter tender was cancelled after there were statements that a retd official leading the winning bid was related to the gentleman handling it from the services end. Basically, if we see what is happening today, the entire edifice has issues.

What amazes me is also the fact that those who are successful despite the system are usually targeted.

For instance, take the LCA program - its usually the first target of every rtd sort or new journalist, using claims of cost, capability without even attempting to look at issues such as overall Indian industrial capability. However, the manner in which we have been ripped off on assorted programs ex-import is never discussed until and unless CAG releases a report. Whereupon, only a minor fracas ensues till MOD gives the usual "all iz well" response.

Basically, the system is set up to ensure that a) local efforts are either set for failure or underfunded and b) the import gravy train continues and finally c) the import gravy train does not lead to long term independence by proper TOT

Whether this is due to a) incompetence or B ) politics or c) corruption or a combination of all three, the problem is this is clearly a big issue and exactly why India has not been able to succeed beyond a point.

Frederic · Post by **Frederic** » 11 Apr 2012 02:01

Karan and others,

I have been trying to dig up on some shady activities by a certain "educated, articulate and aggressive" female INC ex-minister from Andhra about the cancellation of the Bhim artillery unit.

So far I have been unsuccessful. Do you have any light to throw on this matter?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Apr 2012 02:13

Sir, even if you do, it will never see the light of the day. The media is completely in one political camp, lock-stock-and barrel.

I don't know if you noticed but today, incidentally, the SIT exonerated Modi & several others over the Gujarat riots. There was an interview of Shri Raghavan (SIT) on NDTV and it was amazing to see the overt bias on display, starting from the questions asked (all with a hostile body manner) by a lady anchor who did not cover herself with glory during the Radia affair , the side bar - with screaming headlines from Ms Setalvad (her prior activities re: fake evidence not mentioned anywhere). The political bias was overt.

Bottomline, our system is completely subverted with the system of checks and balances not working. Organizations which are supposed to keep each other on their toes are actually eating from the same pie. Pretty much a kleptocracy.

Clearly, in such a system, people like VK Singh are shown the door very quickly when they try to shake things up. Incidentally, since we are on the topic of artillery- this man evidently pushed for the OFB to use its acquired TOT (however limited) and use it to make local guns. Can anyone inform me what exactly prevented his predecessors from doing something similar? Incidentally, if the OFB does succeed in making these guns - thats some 400-700 guns less from an import order..would not endear Mr Singh to another bunch of lobbyist's would it.

BTW, the Bhim is back. This time with a Zuzanna 155mm gun on top of the Arjun chassis, and hence called the ArZu.
http://www.kerametal.sk/en/commercial-d ... -1/zuzana/

BTW, BEML - the current favorite of the day, will be the system integrator of the turret on the Arjun platform.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Apr 2012 04:50

Gentlemen

What did I predict?

http://articles.economictimes.indiatime ... e-missiles
Army pushes for fast-track purchases to counter China, Pakistan

And guess how many vendors in these "fast track purchases" will insist on higher payments than necessary to expedite production and shipment. Proper planning, housecleaning at OFB and a reasonably efficient acquisition process and these fasttrack purchases would not have been necessary.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 11 Apr 2012 06:42

From the Indian Express

Army rules

A young lieutenant colonel of the Army had the CBI quite bemused on Tuesday as he insisted on handing over the sealed cover carrying Army Chief Gen V K Singh’s complaint, in the Tatra bribery matter, only to Special Director V K Gupta. When he first came in, he was escorted to the dealing DIG but he politely insisted that his instructions were clear, so the DIG took him to his boss, the Joint Director. There again, the officer was clear that he has to hand over the packet in-person to the Special Director dealing with the case. This was eventually arranged and the officer went back satisfied as Gupta opened the packet and personally examined the contents.

‘It is a fight for principles’

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 11 Apr 2012 07:38

Not a mod, but I really feel you should not have posted that here, for various reasons

Your reservations are well founded as your defence of armed forces.Mav is not a gospel writer.But life has shades of grey.The Hindu ethos accepts it while yearning/striving for the right/light.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Apr 2012 08:36

Karan has only touched upon the tip of the tip of the iceberg.I mentioned in an earlier post,an allegation from a credible source, how a PSU developed a particular component,pretended R&D on it was still going on,sold the device to a pvt. player who now supplies it to the services at high cost ! All this while a Paki mole within the PSU sends reports home .When the officer from one of the services deputed to the PSU discovered the scam and mole,he was asked first to mind his own business by the "boss" and then sacked! He is reportedly fighting back in the courts.Screwdriver tech is still bandied about as "indigenisation".A thorough clean-up of both the MOD and DRDO/PSUs is required ,but who is willing to take on or change the system? As they say "a fish rots from the head",and if as in India's case the head is thoroughly rotten and we have a non-performing "honest" DM,who like his PM allows the bandicoots a free hand to loot the nation through their multitude of scams, very little reform will take place.It will be another round of musical chairs once Gen.VKS retires,"urgent measures to equip the services" will see another rash of imports and so-called JVs,the rodents will be celebrating with bubbly in their 7* ratholes and secret bank balances will see large inflows.

If real reform is to happen,the nation needs to be led by truly honest men and women,who are daring in decision making,not hesitant and afeared of criticism,but only want to protect their grip of their seats of power. It is our responsibility to vote only such representatives in election time.The mass of voters keep on choosing between "the devil and the deep sea" ,one bagful of scoundrels to replace another,TN the comedy state of make-believe being a prime example.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Apr 2012 09:22

Spinster went to recent DefExpo and noted that many PSUs did a shoddy job of indegenius product development. They didnt even bother to remove the foreign developer's name tag!

jrjrao · Post by **jrjrao** » 11 Apr 2012 09:34

oops, wrong thread. On to the Paki thread.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Apr 2012 09:56

HC bans reporting on controversial army movement

A division bench comprising justice Uma Nath Singh and Justice V K Dixit directed the state home secretary to convey to both print and electronic media that they must desist from carrying any news relating to that particular movement of military troops.

The court's order came following a PIL filed by social activist N Thakur, who felt that such news could be harmful to security matters relating to the Indian army and the nation.

"The issue of movement of Army troops is not a matter of the kind which should require public discussion at the cost of defence official secrecy and the security of country," observed the bench.

While dismissing the petition, it added, "thus, without interfering with the independence of media and keeping in view the fact that the news items relating to movements of troops have already engaged the attention at the highest level in the defence as well as in the government, we think it appropriate to direct the secretary, home affairs, and the secretary, information & broadcasting, government of India and the principal secretary (home), government of UP, to ensure that there is no reporting/release of any news item by the print as well as electronic media relating to the subject matter, namely, the movement of troops."

Late in the day but a good move.

sum · Post by **sum** » 11 Apr 2012 12:32

Has the Prime Minister ignored the Service chiefs?

Number of times the prime minister met with the Service chiefs in 2011: 1

Number of times the prime minister met with the Service chiefs in 2012: 0

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh has dispensed with even the necessary formality of convening regular meetings with the three defence chiefs to get a first-hand feedback about the Services.

The average of three to four meetings a year between the prime minister and the Service chiefs was reduced to just one in 2011.

This year not a single meeting has taken place so far despite the controversy surrounding the Indian Army and its modernisation plans.

Defence sources pointed out that over the years the Services have been distanced "more and more" from political decision making about defence issues, with even the customary interactions left in the form of regular meetings between the prime minister and the chiefs of the army, air force and navy being severely curtailed.

The result is that the political leadership has deprived itself of serious considered feedback about the status of the defence forces directly from the chiefs leading to what sources said, was a widening gap in communication.

Is this a CBM deal made with Unkil etc to deliberately keep the services weakened?

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 11 Apr 2012 12:39

sum wrote:Has the Prime Minister ignored the Service chiefs?
Is this a CBM deal made with Unkil etc to deliberately keep the services weakened?

Its possible the PMO and PM have simply delegated greater defence policy functions to MoD and RM. Until one has also examined the frequency and quality of interactions between the services chiefs and the RM and defence secretary, its probably best to withhold judgement on whether an unprecedented schism between the political and military leaderships has come into existence.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Apr 2012 12:49

ManishH wrote:In the context of Ammunition shortage mentioned in COAS's leaked letter ...

Ajai Shukla on NDTV: "Ammunition shortage has existed since NDA government. George Fernandes wanted an ordnance factory in his home constituency Samastipur; so stalled procurement."

Boss UPA has been in power for 7 continuous years, the INC has ruled at Center for about 53 out of 65 years, 6 years of 3 3rd front, NDA ruled 1 year 1998-99 was caretaker during Kargil and ruled 5 yrs only from 99 to 04, I think its time to completely discount that all of India's ills are because of 1999 elections. This is way past Sell by date.

NDTV(other media) also want to blame to 2G scam, coal scam etc at NDA.

Now, before George Fernandes is once again held guilty without trial, what is the conviction in so called Open - Shut Tehelka cases- nothing. Only MOD babus who joined office long before him and probably were corrupt long before GF became Defense minister has strong cases against them.

Infact the entire media, Left, third front and INC should hold their heads in shame for Tehelka, they only showed the Institutional corruption in MOD which was inherited by NDA after 50 years of INC/ Third front rule.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 11 Apr 2012 12:51

sum wrote:Has the Prime Minister ignored the Service chiefs?

As I keep saying, both the hundreds and thousands of omissions by Man mohan of basic governance duties, coupled with alarming terrier like alacrity over a few topics over last 7 years -- themselves are a crystal clear testimony of where the priorities are -- Quite clearly.

The writing is on the wall and has been for quite some time. Only a question of willingness to honestly look at what exists or keep spinning "chankian excuses"

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 Apr 2012 12:55

Viv S wrote:
sum wrote:Has the Prime Minister ignored the Service chiefs?
Is this a CBM deal made with Unkil etc to deliberately keep the services weakened?
Its possible the PMO and PM have simply delegated greater defence policy functions to MoD and RM. Until one has also examined the frequency and quality of interactions between the services chiefs and the RM and defence secretary, its probably best to withhold judgement on whether an unprecedented schism between the political and military leaderships has come into existence.

Oh please sorry, certain things like Defence, Foreign policy , general Finance/ economic policies, Law and order, legal policies cannot be Delegated- you never delegate responsibly.

its like saying JFK should have left the decision to attack Cuba during the missile crises to some 4 star general in the Pentagon, that does not work.

The PM has some basic responsibilities to the nation which he must perform and listening to Service chiefs especially when we are blessed with Neighbors which we have, with whom we are engaged in dialogue with serious defense implications require the PM to consult them all the more.

This is incompetence and nothing less.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 11 Apr 2012 13:11

He is a old man. Very old man by india's demographic curve criteria. Who all he can meet in a day ? You guys expect so much from MMS.
Isn't he meeting Gila-ni and Hu and Ombaba on regular basis.
Anyways he has met service chiefs once in 2011. What has changed in 2012 for him to meet them again.
Batao Batao..

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 11 Apr 2012 13:30

Aditya_V wrote:Oh please sorry, certain things like Defence, Foreign policy , general Finance/ economic policies, Law and order, legal policies cannot be Delegated- you never delegate responsibly.

All of them are a preserve of the Union Cabinet of which the RM is senior member.

its like saying JFK should have left the decision to attack Cuba during the missile crises to some 4 star general in the Pentagon, that does not work.

When a Cuba like crisis occurs, one would expect the PM, RM, rest of the Cabinet and the service chiefs to be together until it abated. In a bunker.

The PM has some basic responsibilities to the nation which he must perform and listening to Service chiefs especially when we are blessed with Neighbors which we have, with whom we are engaged in dialogue with serious defense implications require the PM to consult them all the more.

Have you heard any of the service chiefs complain about the RM having inadequate authority on any matter that pertains defence, requiring the PM to step in?

The entire issue of space between the political and defence leadership, long predates the UPA and NDA governments. And the ideal solution - a four star Chief of Defence Staff uninvolved in everyday management of the services, to represent them in policy meetings in the Cabinet Committee on Security and National Security Council, serving as a single point of access, accompanying the RM overseas in a role not unsimilar to the defence secretary - is one that the services haven't been able to agree on.

This is incompetence and nothing less.

Unless you're privy to internal correspondence and minutes of meetings, that's just rhetoric.

Jaybhatt · Post by **Jaybhatt** » 11 Apr 2012 14:42

As Issac Pulitzer wrote" Accuarcy is to newspaper, as virtue is to a woman!"

To which one lady replied "A newspaper can always print a retraction!"

________________________________________________________________________________

Ramana : the person you are referring to was Joseph Pulitzer, in whose honour the Pulitzer Prizes were instituted.

He also gave a generous donation to Columbia University to set up its Graduate School of Journalism.

By the way, I completely agree with you about your assessment of Shekhar Gupta and your opinion of people who continue to read that rag-sheet as long as the Gupta fellow continues to be its editor.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 11 Apr 2012 23:00

Forces headed for turf war

SUJAN DUTTA
Antony

New Delhi, April 10: Defence minister A.K. Antony today said the air defence system of the country was being strengthened with new weapons and sensors.

The army chief in a letter to the Prime Minister on March 12 had pointed out that the army’s air defence capabilities had eroded by about “97 per cent”.

Antony was speaking at the air force commanders’ conference where he said the new equipment was being inducted into the IAF. He said in the last five years, the IAF had signed 317 contracts and its purchases had topped Rs 107,000 crore. “This is a record,” Antony said.

The army has also asked for an upgradation of its air defences. The army’s wishlist under Gen. V.K. Singh may lead to a turf war with the air force. Under the Union War Book — a record of experience and assessment in times of hostilities — air defence is the primary responsibility of the IAF. The war book is revised periodically.

But the army now wants to equip itself with air defence systems that the IAF can interpret as overreach in its domain. The army wants “mobile, multi-layered and multi-tiered” air defence systems to sanitise the “air envelope” from stand-off threats (weapons fired from beyond visual range).

This means the army wants to replace its current air defence systems — that comprise Kvadrats (Russian-origin), L-70s (Bofors-made), Schilka and Pechora (Russian-origin) — with quick-reaction surface-to-air missiles (QR-SAMs, up to 30km range), MR-SAMs (medium range up to 60km) and LR-SAMS (long range, beyond 60km) missiles.

Medium range and long range air defence is the primary responsibility of the IAF though the roles overlap in times of hostilities and depending on the nature of the combat zone.

Combat zones may be within the country or inside the territory of an adversary.

There is already a turf war brewing between the army and the air force over the acquisition of aircrafts. In addition to the helicopters in the Army Aviation Corps, the army has also asked for fixed-wing planes.

Antony said on the sidelines of the conference today that reports of a drastic fall in munition stores “are all rumours”. One report had said the tanks of the army have ammunition that would not last for more than four days in the event of a war.

“You see I can assure that the country is fully prepared. India is in a much, much stronger position compared to the past. There may always be some shortcomings that we are in the process of overcoming. You cannot expect 100 per cent fulfilment of requirements…. On the whole, Indian armed forces are… in a better position to meet any challenge to our integrity,” Antony said.

Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has said the fleet of Mirage 2000 fighter aircraft that were grounded after one of the planes crashed on March 5 would be fully operational by the end of this month.

Misraji · Post by **Misraji** » 11 Apr 2012 23:19

shyamd wrote:Forces headed for turf war
SUJAN DUTTA
Antony

New Delhi, April 10: Defence minister A.K. Antony today said the air defence system of the country was being strengthened with new weapons and sensors.

The army chief in a letter to the Prime Minister on March 12 had pointed out that the army’s air defence capabilities had eroded by about “97 per cent”.

---SNIP -----

What a pile of garbage? Is there anything worth in that report which is not sensationalist or already known?
Damn!!! These reporters should be publicly ridiculed, tarred and feathered for their irresponsible journalism.

--Ashish

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 12 Apr 2012 02:45

IA has asked for fixed wing planes? If true, what kind, does anyone know?

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 12 Apr 2012 03:38

Government on overdrive to tide over tanks’ ammunition crunch

NEW DELHI: With Army chief General V K Singh ominously warning his entire tank fleet is ``devoid of critical ammunition to defeat enemy tanks'', the government is fast-tracking orders to arm the T-90S main-battle tanks with missiles and specialized ammunition for a greater punch on the western front with Pakistan.

Top sources say contracts for 25,000 Invar missiles and 66,000 APFSDS (armour-piercing fin-stabilized discarding sabot) rounds for the Russian-origin T-90S fleet as well as 10,000 Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), at an overall cost of around Rs 6,000 crore, are in the final stages.

This comes after Gen Singh wrote a confidential letter to PM Manmohan Singh on March 12, which found its way into the public domain, detailing the critical ``hollowness'' in his 1.13-million-strong Army's war-waging capabilities.

Defence minister A K Antony, incidentally, is slated to hold the third review meeting on Gen Singh's concerns on April 17-18. While the procurement process for the new contracts was initiated quite sometime ago, their swift conclusion has become a top-priority over the last few weeks.

There are two big contracts for the 3UBK-Invar missiles, which are potent anti-tank weapons with a five-km strike range, in the pipeline. The first is for 10,000 missiles for Rs 1,386 crore from Russia for which a ``draft'' CCS (cabinet committee on security) note has already been prepared and circulated, say sources.

The rest 15,000 missiles will be ordered from defence PSU Bharat Dynamics Ltd, at a cost of over Rs 2,000 crore, for which the contract negotiations committee (CNC) is in progress.

Another over Rs 2,000 crore contract will be for the 66,000 APFSDS rounds fired from the 125mm smooth-bore guns of T-90S tanks. The reserve stocks for this specialized ammunition is down to only four days, as Army vice-chief Lt-Gen S K Singh told the parliamentary standing committee on defence on Monday.

The Army is also going to get the 10,000 Konkurs-M ATGMs directly from Russia for over Rs 1,200 crore. ``All these contracts should be inked within the next few months,'' said a source.

The T-90S fleet, incidentally, has grappled with glitches in its missile and thermal imaging systems right since its induction after India first ordered 310 of these tanks for over Rs 3,625 crore under a February 2001 contract with Russia.

India went in for T-90S tanks since Pakistan was inducting T-80UD tanks from Ukraine as well as `Al Khalid' MBTs developed with China's help, and the indigenous Arjun tanks were then nowhere on the horizon.

Initially, India had plans to manufacture another 1,000 T-90S tanks at the Avadi Heavy Vehicles Factory, but Russia, eager to squeeze out more money, put several roadblocks in the transfer of technology (ToT) promised.

It was only after India signed another Rs 4,900-crore deal with Russia in November, 2007, to import another 347 of these tanks, coupled with Antony pushing the ToT case with his Russian counterparts, that Moscow eased controls.

Since then, the Avadi factory has built 170 T-90S tanks, with the annual production slated to touch 100 tanks in 2012. Moreover, the Army has ordered 124 more Arjuns after the initial order of 124 in 2004.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 12 Apr 2012 03:57

Absolutely amazing. With the tin can-90 purchase, India cannot even manufacture the ammo for the effing tank???!!!! At least with the Bofors scam, the damn artillery actually worked. I bet after the "leak" that the IA was low on tank ammo, the Russians gave us friendship prices on the emergency ammo purchase.If you believe that I have some prime beach front property I can sell you in Siberia. How this scam goes univestigated is beyond comprehension.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 12 Apr 2012 05:53

tejas wrote:How this scam goes univestigated is beyond comprehension.

Can the 'investigators' investigate their own bosses?

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 12 Apr 2012 06:39

Army chief Gen VK Singh says Vectra boss behind Rs. 14-cr offer

CBI initiates probe into Army Chief bribe charge

Ganesh_S · Post by **Ganesh_S** » 12 Apr 2012 07:58

Retd Admiral vishnu bhagwath on Gen V K singh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqD0vart ... ure=relmfu

mody · Post by **mody** » 12 Apr 2012 15:28

Don't know if the following report was posted on the forum.

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/whos- ... 40639.html

A report about the age controversy of the army chief. The author is a ex-army intelligence and ex-raw officer.

It was always about when he would leave the office and not when he would take over. Whether 1950 or 1951 had no bearing on when he would take over. It only has bearings on when he would leave.

The sad part is that most senior serving and retired officers know the real reasons behind the controversy and this is going to have a very bad effect on the morale of the forces.

nelson · Post by **nelson** » 12 Apr 2012 20:23

One of the punctual trains in India is the 'Gravy train'. It runs long and never misses its time. Mr Arvind Joshi was on board this train as Joint Secretary Ground/Air during the Kargil Conflict and Operation Parakram. A presumptuous report on his links with Mr Ravi Rishi of TATRA fame may not be way off the mark after all.

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/it-probes-jo ... 178-3.html

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 13 Apr 2012 01:52

Ravi Rishi is one shady character. He was wanted in the 80's by the GOI under COEPOSA Act. He stayed abroad till the validity of the charges time lapsed and then became promptly became a UK citizen. Arvind Joshi and his wife (both IAS) have been suspended for having assets disproportionate (over Rs 500 crores) to their known source of income.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Apr 2012 08:21

R^2 real links are with RG.
That is why all these bogus links to throw off the scent.

Sri · Post by **Sri** » 13 Apr 2012 12:49

VikasRaina wrote:He is a old man. Very old man by india's demographic curve criteria. Who all he can meet in a day ? You guys expect so much from MMS.
Isn't he meeting Gila-ni and Hu and Ombaba on regular basis.
Anyways he has met service chiefs once in 2011. What has changed in 2012 for him to meet them again.
Batao Batao..

Is it possible that he has met Obama and Hu more than his own chiefs? If true then it's an amazing statistic.

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 13 Apr 2012 16:43

MoD Task Force to visit select defence installations in Bangalore