Indian Army: News and Discussions 15 Apr 2012

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 08 Jan 2013 22:45

Surya wrote:that will definitely happen - maybe not publicly

The info must come out in public otherwise the message won't be clear enough but I have no hope with this government, MMS is not going to magically grow a pair of balls and a spine. MMS will die as an impotent and a man of straw just like ~~Chacha~~ Chamcha Nehru.

ravi_shankar · Post by **ravi_shankar** » 08 Jan 2013 22:50

The IA has done something the prev night to the pukies that it has made them react in this barbaric manner.. not sure what was done to the pukes..but i wish IA rain steels of fire on those pukies again..

I also wish to give to tamacha to those who come with the bullshit aman ki tamasha...but our hopeless WKK will remain ever in their cuckoo land..

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 08 Jan 2013 23:12

Surya wrote:
what is further aching me is the almost assured future course of no counter-action.
that will definitely happen - maybe not publicly

i don't think so.. what they did to avenge kalia?

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 08 Jan 2013 23:17

if politicians don't show balls, IA should plan and execute unilateraly.

rgsrini · Post by **rgsrini** » 08 Jan 2013 23:29

The ruling government has a novel idea to reciprocate. They are planning to find the killers and promptly issue a visitor visa to all their relatives.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 08 Jan 2013 23:33

Boreas wrote: i don't think so.. what they did to avenge kalia?

1. May be we don't know since it is not public
2. IAF did take out PN Atlantique in retaliation of shooting down of Migs.

Sanku · Post by **Sanku** » 08 Jan 2013 23:44

Cant even feel outraged any more, nor angry. Only sad. Very sad and completely helpless and impotent.

Folks are right, these killers will probably be issued first class ticket to the next match in Delhi.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 08 Jan 2013 23:47

Prithwiraj wrote:
Boreas wrote: i don't think so.. what they did to avenge kalia?
1. May be we don't know since it is not public
2. IAF did take out PN Atlantique in retaliation of shooting down of Migs.

Silly isn't it? Why would IA want to hide the retaliation details?

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 08 Jan 2013 23:50

RamaY wrote: Silly isn't it? Why would IA want to hide the retaliation details?

to keep IA happy and protect minority votes..sad but this is the reality

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 08 Jan 2013 23:58

Prithwiraj wrote:
Boreas wrote: i don't think so.. what they did to avenge kalia?
1. May be we don't know since it is not public

if anything would have happened TSP would have started crying and western media would have forseen 10 nuclear explosions.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2013 00:06

Prithwiraj wrote:
RamaY wrote: Silly isn't it? Why would IA want to hide the retaliation details?
to keep IA happy and protect minority votes..sad but this is the reality

So they are actually proving minorities == PAKIS.

I am questioning how come they could not detect the pakis with installed mil devices?

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 00:22

SaiK wrote:I am questioning how come they could not detect the pakis with installed mil devices?

That's my question too. And how is it they managed to get their hands on the two soldiers to begin with? Did the rest of the patrol withdraw under fire and these two unfortunate soldiers got caught/killed and then beheaded?

How is it the Pakis are able to lay such an ambush to begin with?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Jan 2013 00:25

The problem is not what the pakis do, the problem is what India doesn't do. You gotta hand it to our Gandhian country...we have taken g@ndugiri to new heights.

-----

As per accounts, a 4 man patrol got ambushed and all got severely injured. 2 of the dead were beheaded and all their weapons were snatched. This was a Paki SSG border action team (BAT) operation thru and thru.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 09 Jan 2013 00:29

Salman ji doing lip service as usual...

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/news/i ... eststories

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 00:39

Raja Bose wrote:As per accounts, a 4 man patrol got ambushed and all got severely injured. 2 of the dead were beheaded and all their weapons were snatched.

What happened to the other two who were wounded? They managed to escape?

This was a Paki SSG border action team (BAT) operation thru and thru.

This part to me shows how ruthlessly efficient the PA is compared to the IA. They respond to a border provocation very cleanly, efficiently and with brutal precision regardless of its effect on the so called national interests. And to me it appears that the brutality was deliberate and designed to shock India. In this goal they have succeeded, haven't they?

a) I still am scratching my head on how they managed to lay such a precision ambush? Did they use UAVs or some other intelligence source?
b) How did they even know about the 4 man Indian team? Did they just stumble into them or knew exactly what the Indian patrol patterns were?
c) Why, after just having a border issue in the last few days, were we still sending out small 4 man teams to begin with? Didn't we expect a counter-response?

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 09 Jan 2013 00:41

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 945099.cms

"We need to do something about this and we will, but it has to be done after careful consideration of all the details in consultation with the defence ministry," Salman Khurshid said.

"It is absolutely unacceptable, ghastly, and really, really terrible and extremely short-sighted by their part," he added, saying any response would be "proportionate".

Condemning the attack, which it called provocative, Government said it will take up the incident with Pakistan. "We expect Islamabad to honour the ceasefire agreement strictly," Defence Ministry said in a late night statement.

yeah! well you also expected them to hang lakhvi and return dawood! These people should not be allowed to speak. They are incapable to put any pressure on the pakis.. when ever they open their mouth they make us look weak.

member_23629 · Post by **member_23629** » 09 Jan 2013 00:46

Things will continue as they are in India until Hindus learn to vote Hindu nationalists to power. They have been backing wrong horses and paying dearly for that (favouring Gandhi instead of Aurobindo, Nehru instead of Savarkar). These "secular" Gandhians or Nehruvians are just opportunistic cowards who are taking Hindus for a ride while robbing their house.

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 09 Jan 2013 00:49

vivek_ahuja wrote:b) How did they even know about the 4 man Indian team? Did they just stumble into them or knew exactly what the Indian patrol patterns were?
c) Why, after just having a border issue in the last few days, were we still sending out small 4 man teams to begin with? Didn't we expect a counter-response?

As per various accounts I get following picture -

PA BAT team was coming to raid an Indian post.

Indian side was put on alert after yesterday's event and this 4 member team was there patrolling some distance away from the Indian post, 5-600m inside Indian border. Patrolling party detected PA troops, fires were exchanged, firing lasted for an hour. Two soilders were killed by beheading. Two were injured. They took head of one soilder.

Question in my mind is that why no backup/reinforcement reached there in one hour??
I am not ready to believe/assume that IA patrolling partis not even have a radio set!

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 00:51

IA statement:

The attack took place along the Line of Control in Poonch district when Pakistanis came about 100 metres into Indian territory and assaulted the patrol party.

"A group of their regular soldiers intruded across the Line of Control in the Mendhar sector on January 8. Pakistan army troops, having taken advantage of thick fog and mist in the forested area, were moving towards our posts when an alert area domination patrol spotted and engaged the intruders," it said.

"The fire fight between Pakistan and our troops continued for approximately half an hour after which the intruders retreated towards their side of LoC. Two soldiers Lance Naik Hemraj and Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh laid down their lives while fighting the Pakistani troops," it said without giving any further details.

So supposedly it was within 100 meters of the LOC. But I am surprised to know that it was our "area domination team" that spotted and engaged these guys? So that probably means that it was not (hopefully) just made up of four men? Not sure how the soldiers got beheaded though if they were the ones who engaged the pakistanis (unless they stayed their ground and backup failed to arrive in time before they were overrun; the Pakis claimed their grim prize and returned across the border on their own accord).

Something stinks to high heaven here...

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 00:57

Boreas wrote:Question in my mind is that why no backup/reinforcement reached there in one hour??

An "area domination team" of four men engaged the Paki raiders. Why would they need backup?

As usual, I am sure the command and equipment failures will be covered up. After all, its only two Jawans right? And the media won't have the time/energy to really poke holes into the story here.

I am not ready to believe/assume that IA patrolling partis not even have a radio set!

Better believe it buddy. BRF may be a focal point for upcoming Indian military tech, but it often fails to see how long and slowly that tech gets down to the men who need it the most. You will be surprised to see how our soldiers actually stay (conditions and equipment) when it comes to the China border. I assume the same goes even for sections of the LOC.

member_20067 · Post by **member_20067** » 09 Jan 2013 01:06

total BS... made believe stories..and stupid TOI have the fake balls to make it a headline story and running with Aman ki Asha in the same breadth...

Shirish · Post by **Shirish** » 09 Jan 2013 01:17

Bamdala 2

Boreas · Post by **Boreas** » 09 Jan 2013 01:19

vivek_ahuja wrote:An "area domination team" of four men engaged the Paki raiders. Why would they need backup?

To behead the intruders.
If those porki f*cker would have been killed or held inside indian teriritory whole of PA would have been hiding under the sand now.

vivek_ahuja wrote:
I am not ready to believe/assume that IA patrolling partis not even have a radio set!
Better believe it buddy. BRF may be a focal point for upcoming Indian military tech, but it often fails to see how long and slowly that tech gets down to the men who need it the most. You will be surprised to see how our soldiers actually stay (conditions and equipment) when it comes to the China border. I assume the same goes even for sections of the LOC.

HOW can't they don't have radio.. what is the purpose of patrolling! Go out and look if there is something wrong! What are they supposed to do when they find something wrong.. walk back and report??

A lot of facts are yet missing.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 01:24

Boreas wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:An "area domination team" of four men engaged the Paki raiders. Why would they need backup?
To behead the intruders.
If those porki f*cker would have been killed or held inside indian teriritory whole of PA would have been hiding under the sand now.

I think you missed the sarcasm there.

vivek_ahuja wrote:Better believe it buddy. BRF may be a focal point for upcoming Indian military tech, but it often fails to see how long and slowly that tech gets down to the men who need it the most. You will be surprised to see how our soldiers actually stay (conditions and equipment) when it comes to the China border. I assume the same goes even for sections of the LOC.
HOW can't they don't have radio.. what is the purpose of patrolling! Go out and look if there is something wrong! What are they supposed to do when they find something wrong.. walk back and report??

I guess I meant "other equipment". Surely they must have had radios? If so, then why did it take over an hour before help came in?

Boreas wrote:A lot of facts are yet missing.

I agree. Usual cover-up written all over it (for now anyway. Let's see what tomorrow beholds)

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2013 01:53

vivek_ahuja wrote:
Raja Bose wrote:As per accounts, a 4 man patrol got ambushed and all got severely injured. 2 of the dead were beheaded and all their weapons were snatched.

What happened to the other two who were wounded? They managed to escape?

This was a Paki SSG border action team (BAT) operation thru and thru.

I just can't eat this.. they managed to escape!!! wtf is going on?

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Jan 2013 02:18

Poonch Incident Is A 'Provocative Action'

"The government of India considers the incident as a provocative action and we condemn it. DGMOs of the two countries are in touch over it. The government will take up the incident with the Pakistan Government. We expect Islamabad to honour the ceasefire agreement strictly."

Sitanshu Kar
(Release ID :91422)

Gimme a f*ckin break....

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=91422

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 09 Jan 2013 03:31

rohitvats wrote:I simply cannot make head or tale of the article about CSD and cut in the Army budget. Which and what Corps is the author talking about? Super confused onlee...

Rohit... i think funds have been cut to Army Ordnance Corps... he has made it as if it has been done away with... and then clubbed it with the starting trouble faced by the MSC and made TWO Corps... thank god he didn't spell it as CORPSE ase many DDM tend to do... even in Khan land... one thing people need to understand... this 10K crore is well within the money returned by our armed forces every year to the central budget which is then swallowed by CON-gress.

Ghatotkacha · Post by **Ghatotkacha** » 09 Jan 2013 04:22

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... o-featured

See details starts at 8:10 of the video.
Looks like the killed soldiers were from Rajputana Rifles. The current Northern Command's chief who is affiliated to Raj Rif told that he will respond at appropriate time. Hopefully, that time comes soon.

Vivek's guess was right:
Army sources suggest that whole operation was meticulously planned by paki in advance. It wasn't an instantaneous "retaliatory" operation by any local Pakistani unit. I won't be surprised if it was approved from higher up in Paki army chain of command.

Now, the question is what GOI will do, off course after sending strongest possible worded memo to Pak govt.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 09 Jan 2013 04:31

IIRC, there was raid in Puki territory carried out by Army Commando's in retaliation to similar Indian soldier killings some years back, i remember reading about it in a post here on the forum.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 09 Jan 2013 04:43

Boreas wrote:http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 945099.cms
. . . he added, saying any response would be "proportionate".

No, it must be disproportionate.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 09 Jan 2013 04:43

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 945099.cms

"We need to do something about this and we will, but it has to be done after careful consideration of all the details in consultation with the defence ministry," Salman Khurshid said.

After careful consideration of which Bandgala/Nehru Jacket to wear and in consultation with Moot Mut Singh, i will be condeming this.

"It is absolutely unacceptable, ghastly, and really, really terrible and extremely short-sighted by their part," he added, saying any response would be "proportionate".

They should have not been short-sighted and should be like us in taking a long-term view in not reacting, passing propotionate time and doing nothing.

Condemning the attack, which it called provocative, Government said it will take up the incident with Pakistan. "We expect Islamabad to honour the ceasefire agreement strictly," Defence Ministry said in a late night statement.
We will not sit idle, we will use the best of diplomatic language and in the strongest possible terms in multiple dossiers take up the "incident" and ask them strongly to "honour ceasefire agreement" strictly".

BTW did anybody note GOI is calling the beheading of Indian Soldiers "an incident". AckThoo.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 09 Jan 2013 04:59

SSridhar wrote:
. . he added, saying any response would be "proportionate".
No, it must be disproportionate.

At this point you will be lucky to get any response, let alone proportionate/disproportionate.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Jan 2013 05:10

Our response will be in the form of gifting them laddu and other sweets.

MMS and Sonia take another sh*t on the Indian public and we just carry on.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Jan 2013 05:11

Vipul wrote:BTW did anybody note GOI is calling the beaheading of Indian Soldiers an "Incident". AckThoo[/b].

Makes me think if the I in the GoI really stands for India? Any other country starting with I running us?

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 09 Jan 2013 05:42

Some more info attack ...

Pak Army commandos intrude inside LoC ;kill 2 Army jawans, injure 2

...
...

Official sources told the Excelsior that a group of nearly 12 Pakistan Army jawans of 29 Balouch, all of whom were believed to be commandos going by the black dresses they were wearing from head to toe, ambushed a patrol party of five Army jawans between Chatri and Atma posts in Mankot sector in Mendhar tehsil after intruding about 600 meters deep inside the Indian territory in broad day light at 11.30 am ahead of the fencing today and opened indiscriminate firing on the jawans, who retaliated.

As Pakistani troops (commandos) outnumbered the area domination patrol party of Indian Army comprising five soldiers of 13 Raj Rifles, two Army jawans were killed on spot and the intruders injured two others in the firing. The Pakistan Army personnel were reported to have beheaded two killed Army jawans and took the head of one of them along with them with their two AK-47 rifles to Pakistan.

A senior officer without saying that head of one of the jawan was taken by the Pakistan Army confirmed that body of one of the jawans was badly mutilated.

The Pakistani troops fled back to their installations within few minutes.

The dead Army jawans have been identified as Lance Naik Hem Raj R/o Mathura, UP and Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh R/o Jhansar, MP. Two Army jawans were injured in the firing. Army personnel from their nearby posts rushed to the spot soon after hearing the sound of gun shots and launched an operation. The troops saw Pakistan Army personnel, who were commandos of Border Action Team (BAT) of 29 Balouch, fleeing towards their forward Barbad and PP posts, opposite Mankot sector of Mendhar tehsil. The Pakistan action team also took away two service weapons of the deceased Army jawans with them.

Army jawans shifted the bodies to the hospital. Two injured soldiers were airlifted to Command Hospital in Udhampur. Army has videographed and photographed the spot as evidence to lodge protest with Pakistan Army for their brutal and gruesome act of killing Army jawans in the stealth mission by intruding inside the Indian territory.

Sources said the area where the incident took place was well ahead of border fencing.

"It was a stealth mission i.e. a very well planned operation in which Pakistan Army commandos had been maintaining vigil and looking for the area where there was very less presence of the Indian troops. As only five jawans were part of the patrolling between Chatri and Atma posts and other forward Indian positions were located at quite a distance, they picked up the spot and raided it. The entire operation might have lasted just 5 to 10 minutes and the Pakistani troops managed to escape before the arrival of other jawans on the spot’’, they added.
...
...
This was the first incident of this kind after ceasefire agreement between India and Pakistan came into force in November 2003 at both LoC and International Border and second since militancy broke out in Jammu and Kashmir about two and a half decades ago leading to fresh Indo-Pak hostilities.

The first such incident was executed by Ilyas Kashmir, a Pakistan Army soldier turned a dreaded commander of Harkat-ul-Jehad Islami (HuJI), in Nowshera sector of Rajouri district in February 2000 when he along with his associates and Pakistani troops had attacked the Army jawans and killed 9 Army personnel. He had chopped off head of one of the Army jawan identified as Sepoy Bhausaheb Maruti Talekar of the 17 Maratha Light Infantry (MLI) and taken it to Pakistan.

Ilyas Kashmir had shown the head to the then Pakistan Army chief Gen Pervez Musharraf and earned a handsome reward. There had been unconfirmed reports sometime back that Ilyas Kashmiri was killed in a US drone strike in North Waziristan.

Talekar, the 24-year-old soldier from Maharashtra, was posted at a border listening post.

Ashok LP post in Rajouri district — that was surrounded by three Pakistani posts when it was attacked in the early hours of February 27, 2000 by Pakistani troops and irregulars. At that time also, the two armies were lodged in an intense exchange of fire — small arms and artillery — that was taking place all along the LoC.
...
...

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 09 Jan 2013 05:48

SaiK wrote:
Vipul wrote:BTW did anybody note GOI is calling the beaheading of Indian Soldiers an "Incident". AckThoo[/b].
Makes me think if the I in the GoI really stands for India? Any other country starting with I running us?

Did anyone see Ajai Shukla's response on NDTV here? Utterly disrespectful of Gen Shankar Prasad. When Gen Prasad said that Army must be unleashed, Shukla said "this is the most nonsensical argument I've heard in my life".

And then, Shukla favored taking the Mani Shankar Aiyar approach of continuing dialogue because "its going our way - we're talking about what we want and not talking about what we don't". How nonsensical! What do we even get from this "talking"??
Now after this incident, Ajai can say that the Indian DGMO managed to talk about this incident with the Paki DGMO, so issue closed, we got to talk about the stuff that we wanted to. But to what end? Will the soldier magically get alive again? Or will the Pakis who illegally entered Indian territory and mutilated a body get a bullet in their head?

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 09 Jan 2013 05:56

It says 5 jawans, so there was one uninjured eyewitness who might be able to give vital information on what happened.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jan 2013 05:57

All that videotaping indicates that IA has gone into the MHA mode of crime scene dossa.

Why are those two Paki posts still in existence?

their forward Barbad and PP posts, opposite Mankot sector of Mendhar tehsil

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 09 Jan 2013 06:12

"I find myself in the astonishing position of agreeing with the Pakistani on the show" (53:20)

F*ck you Ajai. Does this guy have a twitter?

http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/the-bu ... /261139?hp

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Jan 2013 06:19

The Paki sh*tworms are committing these atrocities against the IA because they know that cowards are in charge of India right now.Our cowardly attitude to blatant aggression only insults the armed forces who must be seething with anger and rage at the spineless behaviour of the current leadership.We are told y the media that AKA is now second in the cabinet pecking order.By the time he makes up his mind that the atrocity actually happened,we might have another Kargil ,or repeat of 26/11 on our hands.

It is alsoi time foe the retd. chiefs,who now have nothing to lose to openly protest against the imeptitude of our defence and foreign policy towards Pak,which has yeilded us only tears and blood time and time again.l