Should India pullout troops from Siachen

[ManuT]

Thanks for your participation.
 
And the winner is ....option 5.
Position of folks on BRF is to take the initiative to POK.
 
I found it a bit surprising. I would have guessed Option 1 with, Option 5 would have been underdog position. But it was a good learning point.
 
I posed this question because there is about a month for the next round of dosas on this issue.
 
TSP's position is to somehow get a withdrawal from Siachen. India has so far, managed to steer clear of this by saying Option 2. There is a chance that TSP might do a U-turn and agree to it in the next round. It has started changing its tune i.e. it has started admitting that it is 4-5 kms west of Siachen.
Another reason was (for requesting this poll) was that one cannot ask this question in group setting minus the discussion, without a lot of high energy and no outcome.
This was just as to look at the positions, as of now. Positions can change, for example nothing stops GOI from solving border dispute with China. Suppose that happens first, all TSP's bargaining position gets even weaker.
I put in options like peace park research projects which is a point being promoted by track 2 and posters have clearly steered clear from it.
Maybe sometime in the future it will be possible to make Siachen more accessible for expeditions to the Indian public. (expeditions have gone are too few I think, don't know how consistently they have been sending besides the climbing season for them would be pretty short) So far they have taken only a baby steps. It would be a major morale booster for the troops.
 
Regarding my choice of option 2.
I think it is more important to define the border.
more later.

[abhijitm]

Wow - 53% of the voters in this poll clearly live in a fantasy land (i.e. chose options 3-5). Who would have thought that I would feel like a peacenik for voting for option 2, which is the army's supposed "hardline" position!

Jingoism is that state of mind which makes you to speak unspeakable and makes you to think unthinkable. Its a gift and a curse. George Bernard Shaw once said "you see things and say why; I dream things that never were and ask why not?"

[Amitabh]

Wow - 53% of the voters in this poll clearly live in a fantasy land (i.e. chose options 3-5). Who would have thought that I would feel like a peacenik for voting for option 2, which is the army's supposed "hardline" position!

Jingoism is that state of mind which makes you to speak unspeakable and makes you to think unthinkable. Its a gift and a curse. George Bernard Shaw once said "you see things and say why; I dream things that never were and ask why not?"

Not only jingoism -- that is true of options 3 through 5

[jai]

The point really is that stupid politicians who haveno understanding of anything of use to this country have lost Indian territory and have done nothing about it over the years - including even demand it back - Pok and Aksai chin being among them. Now they want army to pull back from our own land and hand it to our worst enemies. Is it being jingoistic to ask for the return of illegally occupied territory ? Which other country has done this so far - lost land and not even ask for it back? If the ownership determinant is forceful acquisition by an army then are we such cowards that even talking about it equals jingoism ? If on the other hand we are convinced that the lands in question were ever ours or never will be ours then why still show it as a part of your maps and confuse the hell out of every one. Either it's ours, in which case we should aim to get it back and demand it back at all forums or else stop fooling ourselves and let it go- why the double standards, and why make double standards the national policy ?

[Manish_Sharma]

^^ Beautiful post Jai ji!

Amazing isn't it skardu etc. are in PoK which is our territory, it'd be one thing if we were voting takeover of lahore etc.

These p-peaceniks not only want our own forces to vacate the land under our control, but go on labeling as 'jingoes' anybody who is using their right to vote to take back their own land.

[brvarsh]

Worst is Pakistan/China are trying to make India a short term winner to be a long term loser. Next step from Pakistan is very soon to indict useless terrorists of yesteryears to show a thaw in relationship and would be asking big steps from India in return. What these politicians don't understand is Siachin is a differentiator between whether we win or lose any future wars with either Pak or Pak-China combined. Its like asking removing the guard of the building. Even pulling out from attack positions is a bad idea. This is what making the Pak army stretched thin and vulnerable. We pull out and we negate all the sacrifices and assurances we have made and gained.

[ankitash]

x-post http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1343367

Siachen Glacier is critical to India’s sovereignty

The author is a retired Infantry officer of the Indian Army.

There is a concerted effort on the part of many interested parties to demilitarise the Siachen Glacier. However, the realities of the situation is not explained why Siachen Glacier is critical to India’s sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Strategic Importance of Siachen

It is amusing to read headlines as ‘Army chief opposes PM’s trip to Pak’. This is India and not Pakistan where the Chief can oppose the Government. What the Chief, as any Chief would do, was to inform the Prime Minister of the dangers fraught by winning political brownies over the real dangers overpowering such boneheaded pipedreams.

The issue is simple if India had not occupied Siachen, then Pakistan from the West and China from the East would have a stranglehold over the Karakorum Pass.

What is missed out is that the Chinese have military advantage in the Daulat Beg Oldi area, which can cause a strategically and tactical imbalance and if India withdraws from Siachen and Pakistan, in collusion does a ‘Kargi’, the area will be lost forever and the continuity of China’s domination of illegally occupied territories from Aksai Chin to Shaksgam Valley will be complete.

Little to people realise that in high altitude, without acclimatisation, the troops are as good not being there.

The medical problems on the glacier include high altitude pulmonary oedema, acute mountain sickness, frost bite chilblains, hypothermia, snow blindness.

To obviate that there is a three week acclimatisation that is necessary at various heights.

The question arise is that after the Indian Army quits the Siachen and Pakistan and China does a Kargil, would it be possible to put ‘acclimatised and fit’ troops to ‘throw the intruders out’ to quote Nehru’s famous last words? Yes, it can still be done. But at what costs in wasted lives? Is our memories that short that we have forgotten how Pakistan’s crown in Siachen, the Quaid post, was won and at what costs and be renamed Bana Post?

Are soldiers dispensable commodities for political follies attempting thereafter to achieve ‘instant stardom’ and prove great patriots?

Siachen Glacier is critical to India’s sovereignty

[Karan Dixit]

My answer is no.

[mody]

Yes withdraw the troops and re-deploy them along the Baltistan Gilgit border, making sure that KKH is easily within our artillery range from multiple places.

Partition J&K into Jammu and Kashmir as a state and Ladakh-Baltistan as union territory, to be accorded statehood within 5-6 years.
Hunza valley to be converted to new tourist hot spot and the Deosai plains into a new National Park, with limited and controlled tourism.
New road with Leh-Kargil-Skardu bus service to be started within 6-12 months of the deployment of the troops.

The Siachen base camp should be dismantled and shifted to the Skardu airforce base.

[Amit J]

Didnt get to Vote. Vote for Option 1. In current situation nothing else will work - being pragmatic basis past experiences.

Option 1 - End of Story