Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 24 Nov 2015 17:52

YIPji
As per this link.
They have lost at least 350 officers of army, whether this includes soldiers is not sure. This number definitely does not include frontier constabulary and levies etc. Also would not include any air force casualties.
I remember CFair mentioning that she heard a paki pilot (army/airforce not clear) say that thank God Indus has been crossed.
This indicates that there have been a few incidents across the Indus involving pilots.

The busted al khali dabba of al zarrar was also seen before. Whether that was rah-e-rust or rah-e-nijaat etc I am not able to remember, but the tank was busted on the other side, so this is not the same tank.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Nov 2015 18:10

K Mehta wrote:YIPji
As per this link.
They have lost at least 350 officers of army, whether this includes soldiers is not sure. This number definitely does not include frontier constabulary and levies etc. Also would not include any air force casualties.
I remember CFair mentioning that she heard a paki pilot (army/airforce not clear) say that thank God Indus has been crossed.
This indicates that there have been a few incidents across the Indus involving pilots.

The busted al khali dabba of al zarrar was also seen before. Whether that was rah-e-rust or rah-e-nijaat etc I am not able to remember, but the tank was busted on the other side, so this is not the same tank.

Thanks for that link.

Unfortunately Pakistan has the resources to conduct low grade SSG/SSG trained ops into India while continuing zamzam-ee asses. It is war with India that they will not be able to hold out against and hence the talk of tac nukes. Sooner or later there will be a big provocation. then we have to see what India does

kancha · Post by **kancha** » 24 Nov 2015 19:50

K Mehta wrote:YIPji
As per this link.
They have lost at least 350 officers of army, whether this includes soldiers is not sure.

The first tweet of Bajwa mentions 347 Soldiers and Officers

Shanu · Post by **Shanu** » 24 Nov 2015 20:02

Y I Patel wrote: *ZeA is now slated to go on until 2019. "The Roar of the Stuffed Lions" by Ayaz Amir is a useful piece that gives a limited peek into the true goings on. Apparently there were intense operations in the Tirah and Shawal valleys with heavy casualties to the Pak Army. In this case as for such operations in general, the trick is not to search for Zarb e Azb but to search for other strings such as Tirah Valley etc. Looking directly at the object makes it fade in all the BS being printed about ZeA. Old trick of trying to decipher things - when in dark, the best way to spot something is to not look at it directly.

Thanks YIP Sir for your detailed analysis. I would just like to add one more data point in support of your prediction.

It is about the killing of journalists. 5 of them have died in the last 3 months. Not a very high kill rate, but what is interesting is the cause of their death. TTP has claimed that the under directive of the naPak army the journalists have stopped sharing reports on their success in killing PA soldiers. This media ban has come into effect since the Peshawar school massacre.

http://news.yahoo.com/motorcycle-gunmen ... 06108.html

What i find interesting is that immediately after this latest death, I can get news of PA convoys getting attacked in the most popular of their English newspaper - Dawn, even mentioning that one soldier died. It is exactly this kind of news that completely went missing in 2015. The journalists are now realizing that it is not just the Deep State that can hurt them, but TTP can do it too. If this realization spread, that will be a big step forward in the future state of affairs that YIP Sir so succintly put.

As we all know PA controls the country because they hold the biggest stick, once that reputation goes, how long can they control the population and how long the Jihad factory will stay in their hands. There are already indications that TTP and IS are merging (for details, you can visit the IS in Indian subcontinent thread). IS already has control over the Internet, if the PA no longer controls the conventional media, IS-TTP can win over the Jihadi mesaage space and subsequently the Jihad factory itself. Probably that is why LeT got so concerned about the Dabiq publication proclaiming them all as apostate.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 24 Nov 2015 20:52

kancha wrote:
K Mehta wrote:YIPji
As per this link.
They have lost at least 350 officers of army, whether this includes soldiers is not sure.
The first tweet of Bajwa mentions 347 Soldiers and Officers

All news reports say officers, some reports say 367. Those are June numbers.
All this is tspa propaganda anyway. And that doesn't include FC as well as PAF figures.

I think that the 8 F16 bought recently are attrition replacements for zea losses or wear out . The mujahiddin had a lot of zsu and the raid on mirali also showed some of these.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Nov 2015 04:27

Pakistan's first female pilot killed in FT-7PG trainer crash

ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's first female fighter pilot died today when a twin-seat fighter aircraft crashed in Punjab province on a training mission.

A statement from the Pakistan Air Force soon after the crash said "an FT-7PG aircraft, while on a routine operational training mission, crashed near Kundian (Mianwali). Both the pilots of the aircraft ejected safely and [have] been rescued. No loss of civilian life and property has been reported on ground. A board of inquiry has been ordered by Air Headquarters to determine the cause of accident."

However, it was later reported that Flying Officer Marium Mukhtiar died of injuries sustained on ejection.
..

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 28 Nov 2015 19:32

did TFTA anology in the BR Forum emerge from this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFi6DP8Syk4

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Nov 2015 20:54

pragnya wrote:did TFTA anology in the BR Forum emerge from this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFi6DP8Syk4

No. It emerged from the observation that people of PakDef were referring to Indians as short dark and skinny rice eaters (late 1990s I think). Hence SDRE and TFTA as a foil to that

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 02 Dec 2015 03:55

Inside PAF ZDK-3

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Dec 2015 04:48

did TFTA anology in the BR Forum emerge from this?

@ 6:00, I love the fact that they consider Balouchs dark skinned, etc. Here to history repeating.

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 02 Dec 2015 09:39

@the zdk3 pic
What are the wall hanger like hooks for?

Edit: removed foot from mouth.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 02 Dec 2015 09:41

Zakaullah could be an Iranian?

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 02 Dec 2015 10:02

K Mehta wrote:What are the wall hanger like hooks for?

To hang the headphones on, when not using.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 02 Dec 2015 13:16

Paul wrote:Zakaullah could be an Iranian?

Pakistan navy CNS!

K Mehta · Post by **K Mehta** » 02 Dec 2015 13:45

Thanks arun!
That pic is of baki Navy (behra) and air force (fizzlya) chiefs inspecting zdk3 function in a marine environment in warlike situation during the recently concluded seapark exercise.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 03 Dec 2015 06:45

‘Pakistan to get fifth generation fighter jets’

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will acquire the fifth generation multi-role fighter aircraft from the international market but, for the time being, it will devote its full attention on its state-of-the-art JF-17 Thunder to make it the most effective of its generation.

It has been revealed by Chief of the Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal Sohail Aman while talking exclusively with The News here on Wednesday evening. He said that Pakistan wouldn’t lag behind the countries of the region in obtaining the fifth generation planes and it has opened negotiations with the US manufacturers for exploring options of buying single engine multirole F-35 viewed as the plane of the next decade.

At least three other options are under consideration. The Pakistan Air Force (PAF) could be equipped with aircraft of fifth generation within five years.
:
:
He disclosed that Thunder JF-17 was being sold to four countries without disclosing the buyers and number of the planes. He said that it has become difficult to supply all the ordered aircraft within the stipulated time-frame but we will fulfill our obligations. !!!!!!!!!
:
:

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Dec 2015 07:13

Good luck to them in getting a security briefing on it leave alone actually getting the F-35. All they can hope to get is the J-31 that too not before the middle of next decade. The PAF CAS did not however make it clear whether the F-35 would be inducted before or after the Su-35 which is another imaginary capability they were drooling over a few months ago

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Dec 2015 10:02

Why are they wearing Bose headsets and using Logitech wireless mice in the picture? Are they all watching pr0n videos on their screens?
When you use machinery for critical operations, consumer devices simply do not have the reliability. It appears cheen has gifted them consumer electronic gizmos from Shenzen province.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 03 Dec 2015 11:28

Headsets are $5 for the use of. Naturally they brought their own. What respectful air marshal will wear glorified ear rings worn by who knows a christaan or god forbid hindoo on a previous flight?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Dec 2015 15:30

Aditya G wrote:Inside PAF ZDK-3

http://i.dawn.com/primary/2015/11/56419613ae499.jpg

Why does the man sitting second from left - next to goatbeard- have an arm patch that says "AXACT"? Axactly what does that indicate?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 03 Dec 2015 16:38

self deleted wrong thread

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 03 Dec 2015 17:32

shiv wrote:
Aditya G wrote:Inside PAF ZDK-3

http://i.dawn.com/primary/2015/11/56419613ae499.jpg
Why does the man sitting second from left - next to goatbeard- have an arm patch that says "AXACT"? Axactly what does that indicate?

Trained to Axacting standards.

member_23858 · Post by **member_23858** » 03 Dec 2015 19:01

Aditya G wrote:Inside PAF ZDK-3

This is a RAA/Evil Yindoo/ Baniya conspiracee only. How come murda-e-momin wearing kuffar 'Bose' Headfones?( Bose was started by kufr Amr Bose onlee) Its a RSS/RAA saziish onlee

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Dec 2015 20:13

Mort Walker wrote:Why are they wearing Bose headsets and using Logitech wireless mice in the picture? Are they all watching pr0n videos on their screens?
When you use machinery for critical operations, consumer devices simply do not have the reliability. It appears cheen has gifted them consumer electronic gizmos from Shenzen province.

Bose headphones are fairly standard on other similar aircraft. P-8A and P-8I use Bose as well.

http://navylive.dodlive.mil/files/2014/ ... -019-1.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... 282%29.JPG

Bose has a military supply line of business and has gotten certain components certified for use by USAF, US Army and USN and markets them internationally as well.

Although Bose also produces commercial versions of their aviation headsets as well as the Quiet Comfort headset for home use, the military remains a significant part of their business, Miller says.

The core technology is the same, yet the military headsets are more rugged, Miller says. The Army versions are the most rugged to keep out dirt and dust and resist wear and tear, he continues. The Air Force versions are designed with electromagnetic interference shielding and prevent against ejection windblast and high G loads.

http://www.militaryaerospace.com/articl ... dsets.html

http://worldwide.bose.com/aim/en_tc/web ... /page.html

The questions still remain given the source of these 'BOSE' - are they real or ....

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 03 Dec 2015 20:27

Hmm,
The entire picture looks very suspicious to me.
All but one person have only one hand visible, the other hand is god knows where. The last man has made a fist with his hand, hart to tell what this indicates. Was he doing something with a half fisted hand? Such a mystery!
Maybe the internet speed is better in the cheeni taknerk taiyyara, and streaming video can be seen unhindered, I think the flavour of the day is goats.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Dec 2015 20:37

Whats the range of the radar on the ZDK-3.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 03 Dec 2015 20:45

Karan M wrote:Whats the range of the radar on the ZDK-3.

It suppose to be greater than that of the Ericsson Erieye of 450KM. The real question is how good is the clutter suppression? They may not be able to distinguish low flying aircraft.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 03 Dec 2015 20:55

Just one mard-e-momin has the radio waves detecting beard so the chini maal is only 1/6th as effective on this sortie.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 03 Dec 2015 21:35

Mort Walker wrote:
Karan M wrote:Whats the range of the radar on the ZDK-3.
It suppose to be greater than that of the Ericsson Erieye of 450KM. The real question is how good is the clutter suppression? They may not be able to distinguish low flying aircraft.

Well, thats the core question right? How good is the clutter suppression and also ECCM.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 03 Dec 2015 22:26

Mort Walker wrote:
Karan M wrote:Whats the range of the radar on the ZDK-3.
It suppose to be greater than that of the Ericsson Erieye of 450KM. The real question is how good is the clutter suppression? They may not be able to distinguish low flying aircraft.

Even though it would be important to know, the maximum distance for any surveilance radar is most of the time tactically limited instead of radar-performance limited because there is always a significantly elevated ECM and ECCM environment in an actual conflict that they have to factor in prospectively into the way they train.The problem on the other side is that you already have missiles that can target AWACS like emitters from 200 nautical miles or more leaving you with very little tactical flexibility. Either risk the limited assets you have or loose the capability. If India acquires the 40N6E missile it effectively rules out Pakistani AEW coverage unless pakistan goes running to China and invests a significant portion of its modernization money in acquiring ECM and EW protection or ground launched FT2000 which takes out some of its other modernizing opportunities. Next Generation AEW would either have to be survivable or they would have be done away with in favor of more survivable options to gain situational awareness. The 40N6E is complex because it serves different missions, a simple FT2000+++ with a big booster or a mulit-pulse motor can take out a majority of AEW options as well and Pakistan may try to acquire this further down the road (China will need to develop it anyway to counter US, South Korean, Indian and Japanese AEW and EW aircraft). They won't be able to acquire offensive capability to mitigate India's sizable advantage in command and control and battle management which is likely to even outpace china for the considerable future.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 Dec 2015 00:27

KH-31 can be used in anti-AWACS role as well....

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 04 Dec 2015 00:42

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 04 Dec 2015 00:59

KH-31 can be used in anti-AWACS role as well....

Yes it can but ground launched ARM's give you a completely different capability since size, weight and other mission concerns are not as much of an issue and your resource allocation is essentially more TEL's using the similar long range infrastructure (that China now gets with the S400). Taking a 100-150 km ground launch missile meant to destroy maneuvering aircraft and adding a booster to it to considerately enhance its range is not a big deal for China. That will be an interim step in my opinion and in the long run they will want to create a 40N6E clone or create something that is similar but mission specific. Creating longer ranged ARH air to air missiles is also not hard once they master the BVR missile and they are already working on modern Air to Air long range weapons. A modern Phoenix class missile will get you an amazing range against a non fighter like target once you do a ballistic profile. The Lockheed Martin ALHTK was an ABM but it could have easily been a long range Anti AWACS weapon had the threat been there to justify its cost. Ground launched also has the advantage of hiding with decoys that have been both mobile and emitters for some years now. The US or anyone else cannot fly an AEW within 100-150 nautical miles of a Chinese A2AD zone NOW and this will double with the S400 and will be a significantly larger headache once china creates more numerous A2AD zones by both introducing its own version of S400 and by naturally evolving the FT2000 like concepts with modern technology. While stealth aircraft have now gotten pretty good in developing counters to passive systems (passive radars) AWACS targeting infrastructure would most likely involve no added capital cost over and above what they already have in China.

The concept of tactical Command and Control developed in the 70s and 80s and essentially showcased in the gulf war (AWACS and JSTARS) will now have to be done away with for the hardest air-defense challenges for your enemy can produce for the same amount of money many many times the number of missiles, and TEL's along with decoys than you can AWACS or JSTARS.Fortunately however in the case of Pakistan, China probably knows that the pakis want to play both sides i.e. share info on Chinese weapons with the US and US weapons with China and are unlikely to give them advanced stuff at discounted prices. Pakistan's economy is unlikely to be able to afford anything high-tech so the capability margin will only grow in India's favor.

BharadwajV · Post by **BharadwajV** » 04 Dec 2015 19:50

RAWALPINDI (APP) – Egyptian Ambassador to Pakistan, Sherif Shaheen called on Federal Minister for Defence Production, Rana Tanveer Hussain here on Friday and showed his country’s interest in buying JF-17 Thunder.

http://en.dailypakistan.com.pk/headline ... under-389/

More:

He offered sale of JF-17 and Super Mashak to Egypt and said Iraq has already signed an agreement for purchase of 20 Super Mashak with Pakistan while deal with Turkey to buy 52 Super Mashak is almost finalized.

Why would Turkey buy BTTs from Pakistan?!

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Dec 2015 20:01

^^^
Turkey sold off its rusting T-37 aircraft (34 of them), the ones that the porky dorkys were claiming will be able to shoot down Su-35s.
So the turks will be short of trainers right?
Al Bakistan must have done an offset deal with them to give them Suar Mushaks to replenish that stock.

BTW, most of Pakistan's deals are at the almost finalized stage / one screwdriver turn away from completion, for the last 65 odd years or so.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 04 Dec 2015 20:03

Egypt wants to operate F-16's, Rafale's, Mig-29's, and JF-17's? We can chalk that up to another bout of stupidity from another military in the Middle East right up there with Kuwait buying Typhoon+Super Hornet or UAE trying to operate M2K+F-16+Rafale.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 04 Dec 2015 20:22

Maybe they want something for target practice?
Believe the JF-17 bandar sales once the first delivery occurs

arun · Post by **arun** » 07 Dec 2015 11:27

X Posted from the Pakistani Role in Global Terrorism thread.

arun wrote:The deadly link between San Bernardino and Pakistan

The link between California shooters and Pakistan has once again highlighted the danger the country poses as a terror exporter. US-based Islamism expert Arif Jamal tells DW why Washington can no longer ignore the threat.:

Deutsche Welle

Female Mohammadden Terrorist Tashfeen Malik turns out not only being linked to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s former Punjab Province Minister Ahmed Ali Aulak and radical Mohammadden Cleric of Islamabad’s Lal Masjid, Maulana Abdul Aziz, but this article reveals that her family members were linked to Sunni Mohammadden terrorist group specialising in exterminating Shia Mohammaddens, the Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamaat aka ASWJ which was formerly known as Sipah-e-Sahaba.

Attempts to downplay role of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan in the Mohammadden religion based radicalisation of Tashfeen Malik by palming of the role to Saudi Arabia should be treated with circumspection:

Pakistani in California shooting became hardline in S.Arabia-relatives

Meanwhile the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Deep State is claiming that Tasfeen Malik has no link to Ahmed Ali Aulak, Maulana Abdul Aziz or Bahauddin Zakariya University. The Islamic Republic’s position is that “The action of the pair (Tashfeen and her husband) appears to be a ‘lone wolf attack’ which is either self-motivated or carried out taking self-inspiration from some radicals. We could not establish any direct or indirect connection of Tashfeen with any extremist individual or group. The only fact that has come out so far is that she did hold a Pakistani passport.”:

Investigators reject claims Tashfeen had militant contacts in Pakistan

Ethnic Punjabi Military dominated Deep State of the Islamic Republic picks up the tempo from denial to preventing foreign media from carrying out their job in order to stymie reporting on links of the San Bernardino Mohammadden Terrorist attack to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan:

Pakistani security seeks to tamp down reporting on California shooter

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 09 Dec 2015 08:41

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 09 Dec 2015 10:17

^It is the NORINCO QLZ 04 automatic grenade launcher.

http://world.guns.ru/grenade/ch/qlz-04-e.html