Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

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mody
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by mody »

2013 to be the year of the Astra. That combined with Army looking to procure 2 regiments worth of SRSAM off the shelf, seems to be reason enough to push the Maitri project through as soon as possible.

As soon as news of Indigenous stuff nearing maturation start coming through, the market gets flooded with previously unavailable foreign maal.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Austin »

SagarAg wrote:Approximately a minimum of 300KT of energy was released by the meteor(15m in size) blast. :eek:
Thats as good at the TN yeald of Russian Cruise missile like Kh-55 without the liability of after effect.

Would be good opportunity to study the effect of release of such huge energy
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

300KT is actually slightly more than the kind of warheads the P2 nowadays use. the russians must have trained all the radars and optical instruments they had if they knew it was coming. such happenings are rare. it was almost like a small nuclear blast esp the part where the daylight turns blinding white for a few seconds. and what screaming speed!

a proper pack of badboys those fragments.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

(meteor) looks like the shock wave during flight did most of the damage, which looked quite significant - a film is going around of a possible impact point on a frozen lake - but i suspect that the rock disintegrated in the atmosphere and a small fragment fell onto the frozen lake. if it had hit whilst still intact, i think the lake would likely have vapourised and the impact crater would not be circular and there would be an ejecta field downrange
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Anujan »

Rock possibly exploded in the atmosphere. At that speeds, air is like concrete. The rock slams against this hot concrete breaks up into small pieces and catches fire in the oxygen.

Poor humans down below feel like a hesh round went off on the other side of the concrete wall.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by NRao »

A few stats:

Russia starts clean-up after meteor strike
Although some buildings were unscathed when the sonic waves from the Friday morning explosion reverberated through the region, others lost some or most windows.

More than 1,000 people were injured, including more than 200 children, according to news reports. Many of them were hit by flying glass.
Local officials have estimated the damage at more than 1 billion rubles (more than $33 million), RIA Novosti said.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_22605 »

Tarmak has put up a picture of what might actually be the Nirbhay
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

^^^ It' the ABHYAS High speed Expendable Aerial Target being developed by ADE.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_22605 »

oops sorry, couldn't get that. the ambiguity fooled me :P
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by tushar_m »

raghuk wrote:Tarmak has put up a picture of what might actually be the Nirbhay

maybe nirbhay but look more like lakshya PTA with boosters & wide fixed wings

nirbhay must have a folding wings i guess

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRDO_Lakshya

but on second look the wings are on upper-side of body while lakshya have under body wings

http://tarmak007.blogspot.in/2013/02/wh ... ak007.html
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by sudhan »

^^ I think its a PTA too.. Something cooking on the Astra front?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Methinks Nirbhay will have both a terminal seeker + sat-link antenna. It will likely be a cross between a Harop & a Tomahawk. The reason I think that is because DRDO keeps repeatedly mentioning that it has good loitering capabilities. Why loiter if you cant pick your target (or have someone remote pick the target for you)?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Indranil »

Sagar G is right. It is Abhyas HEAT. It is basically a remodeled towed body of the PTA. I had been talking about it since ADE came out with tenders for its fuselage, body, engine and empennage. It is basically a modified tow body of the PTA. There is more information on its genesis in the keynote talk by Mr P Srikumar at Aero India 2013 seminar. It is named "Indian Unmanned Aerial Systems Roadmap".

Here is its capabilities in a nutshell
Image

P.S. Do they ever proof read their public posters?!!!
Last edited by Indranil on 19 Feb 2013 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by JTull »

mody, not just Astra. 2013 will also be the year of Nirbhay, Brahmos air launched version, canister launched A-V. Sounds like a wish list but these will happen this year IMHO.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by RamaY »

^ IF the payload can carry 20-50kg, it can be a nice small cruise missile with its 500km ferry range.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Quite an expensive target for Astra. Any possibilities of trailing decoys? I guess that M for max speed is mach level, and ideal of testing of Astra missile. Or perhaps the war head proximity fuse can be so programmed that it does not decoy, but at a detected and targeted distance between the proximity fuse of the seeker and abhyas can IFF and take an action of mission completion, and explode at say 15 meter radius.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Indranil »

Saik ji,

"Expendable" is its middle name.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

Does the gas turbine really weigh a paltry 2 kg or should that have been 20 kg?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Indranil »

No 2 kg is right. They had a tender a few days back. The weight limit was 2.4 kg. It is good to know that they have finalized the engine now.

Vic ji and I were trying to come up with a ball park figure for MTOW of Abhyas. He had predicted it to be within 50 to 100 kgs. I had thought that it would be more near the 60 kg mark (maintaining parity with Lakshya). We were not wrong. 8)
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

it looks like a typical iranian cruise missile meant to take down a CVN :rotfl:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by member_23360 »

anybody knows what happened to Novator K-100 missile which india was developing with Russia ?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

india was never developing it with russia. rus showed a prototype and it was never productized. instead for the foxhound they chose to modernize the AA9 amos existing airframe.
as of now, other than the bulky amos there is no LRAAM project in russia unless something is cooking for PAKFA internal carriage...

we are better off working on our own LRAAM project using building blocks off derby, astra, Barak8, akash etc. for a start it should be ok to be effective against large non manouvering targets only and later on move to tackling fighters. setting the initial bar as high as meteor will cause problem.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by John »

We need to put sticky on K-100 it seems to popup almost every month.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

indranilroy wrote:No 2 kg is right. They had a tender a few days back. The weight limit was 2.4 kg. It is good to know that they have finalized the engine now.

Vic ji and I were trying to come up with a ball park figure for MTOW of Abhyas. He had predicted it to be within 50 to 100 kgs. I had thought that it would be more near the 60 kg mark (maintaining parity with Lakshya). We were not wrong. 8)
Then Tarmak007's update on Abhyas should make things more interesting:
In an interview to Express, ADE director P S Krishnan confirmed that Abhyas has already undergone a proof of the concept, pre-project trial at the Defence Research and Development Organisation's new test-range in Chitradurga. “The first experimental launch (minus the engine) of Abhyas was held last year at the Chitradurga range. It was the first ground-based trial held at the new range. We are now working on a small gas turbine engine weighing 19 kg having a thrust of 25 kg to be fitted on to Abhyas,” Krishnan said.
A 2 kg engine would generate too less thrust for a "high speed" 0.5 Mach (531 km/h) drone like Abhyas considering the drone weighs 75 kg.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by andy B »

Question to aero injuneering gurus...can someone please comment on the wing arrangement of the Heat drone....given that this thing is expected to go upto Mach 5 a high mounted shoulder wing typle is interesting choice no? also the vertical tail looks quite big relative to its body size yes? any specific reasons for these...?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Indranil »

PratikDas wrote:
We are now working on a small gas turbine engine weighing 19 kg having a thrust of 25 kg to be fitted on to Abhyas,” Krishnan said.
The reporter has got it wrong somewhere. Here is a comparable engine from JetCat called P200-SX.
Image

Specifications:
Max Thrust: 52 lbs
Engine Weight: 5.53 lbs
Diameter: 5.07"
Length: 13.65"

In ADE's tender, they had asked for 16 such engines, which ties in well with the 15 prototypes.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Indranil »

andy B wrote:given that this thing is expected to go upto Mach 5 a high mounted shoulder wing typle is interesting choice no? also the vertical tail looks quite big relative to its body size yes? any specific reasons for these...?
It is supposed to fly upto 0.5 Mach.

The vertical and horizontal stabilizers are just proportionally scaled down from Lakshya PTA to save time. Personally, I don't find it big or small.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by andy B »

indranilroy wrote:
andy B wrote:given that this thing is expected to go upto Mach 5 a high mounted shoulder wing typle is interesting choice no? also the vertical tail looks quite big relative to its body size yes? any specific reasons for these...?
It is supposed to fly upto 0.5 Mach.

The vertical and horizontal stabilizers are just proportionally scaled down from Lakshya PTA to save time. Personally, I don't find it big or small.
Apologies sir ji thought the brochure say M5 and got confused onlee. Thanks for your view.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

That's a marvellous engine, Indranil. Thanks for looking that up. 52 lbs of thrust is pretty amazing for something that small.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Sagar G »

indranilroy wrote:
PratikDas wrote: We are now working on a small gas turbine engine weighing 19 kg having a thrust of 25 kg to be fitted on to Abhyas,” Krishnan said.
The reporter has got it wrong somewhere. Here is a comparable engine from JetCat called P200-SX.
Good find maybe the report missed a decimal and it's 1.9 Kg instead of 19 as reported. Anyways enjoy this video

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Singha »

enabler for the new era of PSW - personal standoff weapon. individual soldier could carry on back and unleash a 100km range GLCM :)
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by ramana »

GD, There was New Zealand hobbyist who built a working CM and put his plans on the internet. He was charged with MTCR violations or something like that.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

Here is a funny take, on the Abhyas the cylindrical body could be a downed pilot behind enemy lines and the range is good enough to get him/her to a safe extraction zone, just need to figure out how to compactly package the Abhyas airframe minus the 'cylinder' with the pilot's ejection seat

Added later: however unlike the guy in the video, an ejected pilot could be disoriented or unconscious so the burden of manual control should be removed which means using the technique of 'strapping one self to a autonomous cruise missile' and it knows its destination and in this case a safe extraction point analogous in concept to ETOPS.

this video shows how it looks in real life,

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Kartik »

just 50 ?! What on earth is wrong with the IAF ?!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by merlin »

Awesome. The first big picture of the Sudarshan. Get it right and then get it in the quantities required and then we will have some fun.

That 50 must be a test batch.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Indranil »

Kartik wrote:just 50 ?! What on earth is wrong with the IAF ?!
I was about to say the same thing! But Sudarshan seems to roll quite a lot. I watched the video posted by Tarmak closely. The bomb rolls quite a lot just after the tail fins deploy.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by pankajs »

merlin wrote:That 50 must be a test batch.
That must be the case.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

Agreed. The order of 50 should keep the team motivated in getting the roll fixed. I wonder if the high-precision linear ball-lead-screw actuators (to move the control surface) can be moved fast enough to counter the roll. If not, some strakes should help. Newbie aero IQ says if it works for the IJT, it should work for the Sudarshan. :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion

Post by Misraji »

Kartik wrote:just 50 ?! What on earth is wrong with the IAF ?!
To play the devil's advocate, IAF bought roughly 100 Paveway 2's from LM in 2012.
Moreover, Paveway 2 has a cep of 3.6ft (1m) as opposed to Sudarshan which has cep of 30ft (10m).

In that light, 50 does not seem that small a number.

--Ashish
Last edited by Misraji on 20 Feb 2013 12:44, edited 3 times in total.
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