India Border Watch: Security and Operations

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Aug 2014 05:53

x_post

Raja Ram wrote:Ulan Batori Gentleman

The word is that the retaliation is calibrated to inflict disproportionate casualty to command and coordination centers across the IB. Apparently, there is a lot of activity on ground inside Pakistan as well. There has been an increased coordination from Afghanistan side as well I believe. In addition, there has been some clear demands made to Nawaz when he was here.

The GHQ in Pindi is feeling the heat because of the situation internally and the slow loosening of grip on the Allah Army that traditionally did only what the Generals said. Apparently there is a churning on that front and some of them are not willing to listen to everything the PA says.

But there has been some sobering considerations as well. The establishment is horrified at the state of preparedness of all three forces. Further, they had taken an assessment of the Indian capability in terms of Stand-Off retaliation that can be calibrated and delivered with precision. They have found that it is not to the level that is desired for effective operations. The Decade of Drift has caused major shortfalls in operational capabilities that according to some borders on near treason levels.

This the ground reality. Apparently the NSA Mr. Doval is working overtime along with key teams to get things into shape into Intel Network. The silver lining has been the very close involvement of the political leadership by way of PM and the RM to get things moving. It has led to a major boost to the morale of the Uniformed Leadership across the board as well as greater demands from them to get things done.

As you rightly surmise, this is a strategic window of opportunity to bring to end the artificial entity's existence. While there is an intention to get going from the GOI, there has been a realization that serious capability drawbacks exist. The priority is to get those fixed as quickly as possible while making sure that Pakistan gets the message.

May not make all of us here happy, but this seems to be a realistic assessment that I gathered by talking to a few who have been around.

Just an informed ramble. Take it for what it is worth.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 27 Aug 2014 06:47

Prem Kumar wrote:Shiv: while I agree that Gwadar would be difficult to defend, it need not have been given away without murmur.

Junagarh.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 27 Aug 2014 07:30

^^^ Was Gwadar exchanged for Junagarh? I don't think so.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 27 Aug 2014 07:47

srai: I am talking about options we would have had in the past. Yes even as bargaining chip during the wars. Even if it eventually had to be given up, we could have extracted mileage out of it.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 27 Aug 2014 08:29

I agree with Ramana sir. Time is needed to come out of the present mess of St Antony and Manio.

Cross post from Modi thread:

Retaliation to Paki provocations will be calibrated and most of it will not even be reported anywhere. The very fact of pakis wanting a flag meeting is an indication of the things being done. The outright war is not possible immediately due to conditions of Indian Armed forces which are starved of many supplies. But I am sure that efforts are on to rectify this situation and once the Logistics and equipment conditions improve war even a limited war may not be off the table if there is any grave provocation is there from Pakis.

In the meanwhile Burkha and others are reporting that the exchanges in the border is highest since 1971. If it is true then it shows that NM is not keeping quite and free hand is already given to armed forces to retaliate. Such freedom itself will deter some of the more saner ( I wonder if there are any) people in Pakiland.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 27 Aug 2014 08:56

SanjayC wrote:^^^ Was Gwadar exchanged for Junagarh? I don't think so.

We didn't pay anything for, or make any compromises on Junagarh (or Goa or Hyderabad). An enclave belonging another country existing within India was always recognized as unacceptable.

That policy being what it was, you can rest assured that Pakistan would have annexed Gwadar at short notice if it had been ceded to India. Either directly or through proxies. Result would have been a loss to the exchequer of $1 million (assuming the story is true). A sum that might seem trivial today, but wasn't at the time.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 27 Aug 2014 11:00

^^^ The anticipation of conflicts in future is no reason to refuse territory -- only fools do it. The simple explanation is that Nehru was being an idiotic Santa Claus, distributing gifts at the expense of the Indian people. He gave away Gwadar as he gave away Kashmir, Coco Islands, Tibet and the UN Security Council seat. The guy was behaving as if he got India in his dowry and was free to give away its chunks to anyone who asked. He never bothered to consult his cabinet colleagues for his decisions. It took 1962 war for him to lose his swagger.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 27 Aug 2014 11:46

Rather than complicated thoughts, I can think of no other reasons for such decesions that he was appointed as sucessor by the forces leaving India in 1947 and did not look at these decesions from an Indian point of view.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Aug 2014 11:52

Aditya_V wrote:Rather than complicated thoughts, I can think of no other reasons for such decesions that he was appointed as sucessor by the forces leaving India in 1947 and did not look at these decesions from an Indian point of view.

Which is why they left it in his safe hands knowing that he would do a better job of it than they could ever hope to do.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 27 Aug 2014 22:55

SanjayC wrote:^^^ The anticipation of conflicts in future is no reason to refuse territory -- only fools do it

Gwadar wasn't being handed over for free. Paying $1 million for a piece of territory that there was no way of retaining would have been foolishness.

In 1947, India's total revenues equaled just $400 million. To put that in perspective, writing off $1 million for Gwadar back then would be equivalent to writing off $500 million by today's government.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 27 Aug 2014 23:09

Viv S wrote:
SanjayC wrote:^^^ Was Gwadar exchanged for Junagarh? I don't think so.
We didn't pay anything for, or make any compromises on Junagarh (or Goa or Hyderabad). An enclave belonging another country existing within India was always recognized as unacceptable.

That policy being what it was, you can rest assured that Pakistan would have annexed Gwadar at short notice if it had been ceded to India. Either directly or through proxies. Result would have been a loss to the exchequer of $1 million (assuming the story is true). A sum that might seem trivial today, but wasn't at the time.

The pakis purchased Gwadar from the omanis

from wiki

After four years of negotiations, Pakistan purchased the Gwadar enclave from Oman for $3 million on 8 September 1958 and Gwadar officially became part of Pakistan on 8 December 1958, after 200 years of Omani rule

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 27 Aug 2014 23:09

chetak wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:Rather than complicated thoughts, I can think of no other reasons for such decesions that he was appointed as sucessor by the forces leaving India in 1947 and did not look at these decesions from an Indian point of view.
Which is why they left it in his safe hands knowing that he would do a better job of it than they could ever hope to do.

What still stumps me is why Chacha gave up the position in UN. I want to know the reasoning that went behind it, other than profound stupidity and extremely distorted idea of the gap between moral stands and practical stands.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 27 Aug 2014 23:11

chetak wrote:
The pakis purchased Gwadar from the omanis

from wiki

After four years of negotiations, Pakistan purchased the Gwadar enclave from Oman for $3 million on 8 September 1958 and Gwadar officially became part of Pakistan on 8 December 1958, after 200 years of Omani rule

One thing I agree with others that if Chacha was at the helm, there is no way we could have held onto Gwadar. Chacha would have given it off the Bakis after buying it from Oman

We needed a different breed of non-colonialized leadership to have held on to that place.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Aug 2014 01:53

The recent report on the critical shortage of ammo in all sectors,for arty,anti-tank missiles,etc.,where we are unable to conduct a 29 day intense campaign,will have its impact in any long drawn out echange of fire across the border.The 26 yr wait for new arty for the IA should be fast tracked as Pak clearly is trying to use the window of opportunity,along with China ,when the IA has shortfalls and before Mr.Modi and team tale swift decisions which they've been doing.

It is also past time for covert ops to begin and to put the Gujral doctrine to sleep once and for all.Pak must be taught a singular lesson in the style of warfare that it chooses to use.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 28 Aug 2014 02:29

Philip wrote:The recent report on the critical shortage of ammo in all sectors,for arty,anti-tank missiles,etc.,where we are unable to conduct a 29 day intense campaign,will have its impact in any long drawn out echange of fire across the border.The 26 yr wait for new arty for the IA should be fast tracked as Pak clearly is trying to use the window of opportunity,along with China ,when the IA has shortfalls and before Mr.Modi and team tale swift decisions which they've been doing.

It is also past time for covert ops to begin and to put the Gujral doctrine to sleep once and for all.Pak must be taught a singular lesson in the style of warfare that it chooses to use.

everytime we get raped by our own paki born (and also not paki born), pappi-jhappi loving so called Indians who seem nostalgic and are also ridden by the nobel beast. The pakis have a sure hand in the nobel beast since their opposite number will also automatically get one.

nehru was short sighted and caused immense damage following the beat of a drum that no one else but him heard as did gujral.

did anyone notice that there was no talk at all about awarding MKG a Bharat Rathna or did any one slip him one quietly like it happened to amartya sen??

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 28 Aug 2014 07:33

Viv S wrote:
SanjayC wrote:In 1947, India's total revenues equaled just $400 million. To put that in perspective, writing off $1 million for Gwadar back then would be equivalent to writing off $500 million by today's government.

And what was the size of Paki economy when it bought Gwadar for three times that amount? Why does all this logic apply only to India, not to other countries?

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 28 Aug 2014 08:22

SanjayC wrote: And what was the size of Paki economy when it bought Gwadar for three times that amount? Why does all this logic apply only to India, not to other countries?

Geographical contiguity obviously. Pakistan could physically incorporate the territory after paying for it. The same wasn't an option for India and Oman would hardly have refunded our money after Pakistan annexed it.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 28 Aug 2014 08:46

rohitvats wrote:
shiv wrote:<SNIP>I would be interested in looking at maps that show the areas of Aksai Chin that correspond to the Indus catchment area and the Tarim basin. I have read that the border between these two catchment areas would be a sensible demarcating line.<SNIP>
Shiv, the best source of maps of the region you want to study is this:http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/india/

You can click on each grid to get a larger and more detailed map. In fact, in my study of geography of the region in Ladakh, POK and further areas to the north, these maps are the MOST DETAILED ones I've ever come across. The best part about these maps is that they show the historical land/caravan routes and passes along the same.

For example, if you study the line along eastern Ladakh up till which PLA advanced in 1962, you'll see that they control all the west to east passes along all the major ridge lines. And these passes sit astride the historic trade/caravan routes going from Ladakh (further west) to Tibet.

Coming to your question about the boundary in Aksai Chin area - you need to start from Shaksgam River and Shaksgam Valley. This is the area north to Siachen, claimed by India and which was 'ceded' by Pakistan to China in 1963. This river ultimately drains into Tarim River through Yarkand River. And hence, is part of Tarim Basin.

If you study the geography of the area, you'll see that to north of this Shaksgam Valley/river are the Kun Lun mountains and south of it are the Karakorum Mountains. Karakorum Mountains turn sharply south and culminate in the Changchenmo Range. While Kun Lun mountains continue west to east and actually separate Aksai Chin region from the main Tarim Basin in which Hotan County of China is situated.

Another river - Qarakash/Karakash River - also originates in Aksai Chin but drains into Tarim Basin to north.

Some commentators have made the observation that Aksai Chin can actually be divided into two unequal parts by a ridge called Laktsang Ridge. Area to north of this ridge is actual Aksai Chin while south of it is called 'Soda Plains' or Lingzi-Tang.

Location of Laktsang Ridge- http://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=35.09 ... 387207&z=9

The area to north of this ridge drains into Tarim Basin (Karakash River) while those south and east of it - Galwan River, Changchenmo River - drain into Indus via Shyok.

The map here http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/ams/india/ni-44-05.jpg corresponds to area south of this ridge - Lingzi-Tang and rivers draining west can be clearly seen.

A division of boundary in Aksai Chin river along this ridge has been suggested by some observers. In fact, one of the boundary lines drawn by the British ( Macartney-MacDonald Line) corresponds broadly to the alignment of this ridge. It firmly keeps origin and drainage of Karakash River in Chinese hand while tributaries of Shyok are within Indian boundary. The Aksai-Chin road also stays comfortably with Chinese.

Do read these:
(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aksai_Chin - Good maps. Shows the various boundaries proposed.
(2) http://chinaindiaborderdispute.files.wo ... ispute.pdf - very informative and objective paper on the subject.

Hope this helps.

Here is one road map of our side in Ladakh region which is displayed in Army Hall of Fame in Leh.
https://plus.google.com/photos/10689898 ... 6840109275

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 28 Aug 2014 10:06

vipins wrote:<SNIP>Here is one road map of our side in Ladakh region which is displayed in Army Hall of Fame in Leh.
https://plus.google.com/photos/10689898 ... 6840109275

Thanks.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 28 Aug 2014 10:10

Pakistani Chaiwala Alert from across the border

Apparently the Indian Army has been giving hell across the length of the Punjab border too. People are getting out of and nearby areas because of shelling. There have been some civie casualties in that area.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 28 Aug 2014 18:25

Chetak: Whoa! Didnt realize Moron Sen is a Bharat Ratna! Just looked it up. Given to him 1 year after his Nobel prize - follow-the-white-man attitude. It hurts to see that it was the NDA Govt which did it

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 28 Aug 2014 18:54

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2014/201408 ... news.htm#1

Pakistan Rangers target Indian positions in Jammu

JAMMU: Pakistan Rangers again Thursday resorted to unprovoked firing at Indian positions on the international border in Jammu and Kashmir, an official said.

“Pakistan Rangers resorted to unprovoked firing using small arms in the Pargwal area of the Jammu district,” a police officer said here.

The officer said three BSF outposts were affected due to the firing.

“Pakistan firing started at 11.50 p.m. yesterday (Wednesday) night for a brief period, but today (Thursday) morning at 4 a.m., Pakistan Rangers started firing again which continued till 5.55 a.m.,” the officer said.

The Border Security Force (BSF) troopers gave befitting reply, he added.

These two ceasefire violations occurred hours after the BSF and Pakistan Rangers held a battalion commander level flag meeting in the same border area to defuse tensions between the two sides. - IANS

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 28 Aug 2014 23:29

Gwadar:

My ignorance, but its the first time I have heard of such a offer ... and GoI not pursuing it. uncle google doesnt tell much:

http://thepakistaninationalist.blogspot ... _6696.html

...

When Pakistan gained independence in 1947, Gwadar was still under Omani rule. With the independence of Pakistan and accession of all Baloch states to Pakistan, including the Chief Commissioner's Province of British Baluchistan on 15 August 1947 (under Section 2(2)(b) of the Indian Independence Act, 1947); the States of Kharan, Makran and Lasbela on 17 March 1948; and the Kalat State on 27 March 1948, the residents of Gwadar began raising the demand to join Pakistan.

In 1954, Pakistan engaged the United States Geological Survey (USGS) to conduct a survey of its coastline. The USGS deputed the surveyor, Worth Condrick, for the survey, who identified the hammerhead-shaped peninsula of Gwadar as a natural and suitable site for a new deep-sea port. This finding, coupled with the rising demands of the residents of Gwadar to join Pakistan, prompted Pakistan to make a formal request to the Sultan of Muscat and Oman, Said bin Taimur, for the transfer of Gwadar to Pakistan. On 7 September 1958, after four years of negotiations, including six months of intense negotiations, Pakistan purchased the Gwadar enclave from the Sultanate of Muscat and Oman for USD $3 million. Gwadar formally became part of Pakistan on 8 December 1958, after 174 years of Omani rule.

...

I would like to know that if we declined this offer, it was based on professional military advice.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 29 Aug 2014 00:08

Prem Kumar wrote:Chetak: Whoa! Didnt realize Moron Sen is a Bharat Ratna! Just looked it up. Given to him 1 year after his Nobel prize - follow-the-white-man attitude. It hurts to see that it was the NDA Govt which did it

My exact feeling, Sir.

It was uncle ABV who dished it out. It was sneakily done and lots of folks missed it. Most undeserving SOB, sen. Needs to be arrested pronto for what he has done in Nalanda

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 29 Aug 2014 00:11

Aditya G wrote:Gwadar: I would like to know that if we declined this offer, it was based on professional military advice.

Chacha Nehru was the decision maker. So, I would go with "No"

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 29 Aug 2014 00:12

chetak wrote: Most undeserving SOB, sen. Needs to be arrested pronto for what he has done in Nalanda

Ameen!

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 29 Aug 2014 04:52

chetak wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Chetak: Whoa! Didnt realize Moron Sen is a Bharat Ratna! Just looked it up. Given to him 1 year after his Nobel prize - follow-the-white-man attitude. It hurts to see that it was the NDA Govt which did it
My exact feeling, Sir.

It was uncle ABV who dished it out. It was sneakily done and lots of folks missed it. Most undeserving SOB, sen. Needs to be arrested pronto for what he has done in Nalanda

Vajpayee was a split personality, a big part of him was leftie. Even in year 2000 he wanted it to be declared "Year of Christ" against which Murli Manohar Joshi fought tooth and nail and prevented that calamity to happen. After that vajpayee was always very very cold to him.

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 29 Aug 2014 09:44

chetak wrote:
Prem Kumar wrote:Chetak: Whoa! Didnt realize Moron Sen is a Bharat Ratna! Just looked it up. Given to him 1 year after his Nobel prize - follow-the-white-man attitude. It hurts to see that it was the NDA Govt which did it
My exact feeling, Sir.

It was uncle ABV who dished it out. It was sneakily done and lots of folks missed it. Most undeserving SOB, sen. Needs to be arrested pronto for what he has done in Nalanda

Off topic:

This is a very peculiar syndrome that affects wen a person wins election and develops the attitude of selling out himself, so that he will be praised by ddm or liberalists in the lutenys Delhi. Even without his conscious he would have been sold out due the atmosphere created by the liberal crooks enmassed in lutenys Delhi. However I am yet to see any such changes in present govt. But I am sure only hardcore rightwing/nationalist can survive from this syndrome, and every other person with chicken heart will surely get affected by this syndrome.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 29 Aug 2014 11:58

ABV was always a peacenik and left leaning type. JN Dixit alludes as such in his book even. When a die hard Congressi calls you soft..

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 29 Aug 2014 12:15

I don't know whether I am speculating or not.

But seeing the reports I have a strong gut feeling that the recent cease fire violations are an attempt of ethnic cleansing by shelling the areas of jammu which have a majority of sikh & Hindu population or may be this might an attempt to create fear in people or stop the mission 44 of BJP.

This effort of Pakis is getting active political support from the abdullas and other Mulla's , they are trying there best to keep there flock together to resist the mission 44.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 02 Sep 2014 09:16

1800km strategic road project on China border put on fast track

The most ambitious strategic border road project till date will join Tawang the western most point in Arunachal Pradesh with the easternmost point of Vijaynagar via Bomdila. The project cost is expected to run close to Rs 25,000 crore.
.........
Sources said that the BRO has been asked to get serious about the project or else the project could be opened for the private players.

The ministry of environment and forests has also been asked to get clearances in advance and remove glitches.

"The project is essential for us to connect our far flung and remote villages. We want this project to be completed during the five year tenure of our government," MoS (home) Kiren Rijiju said.

The road also becomes very useful from economic stand point of view. If we want to harness AP's hydropower, these roads will become a big catalyst in speeding up those projects.

Slightly OT. Amongst new gems of Modi's govt, one is Kiren Rijiju.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Sep 2014 10:44

From Praveen Swami:
Pak infiltrators out there somewhere in the forest…waiting, just like us

Last week, seven men, camouflaged inside the cloud, made their way up a stream just like this, their backpacks stuffed with packets of Sooper Egg and Milk Cookies, Nimko masala-mix, medicines, grenades and ammunition, sparking off the biggest counter-infiltration operation since 2009.

Five of the terrorists, and three soldiers, have since died in the fighting that continues to rage in northern Kashmir’s dense Kalaroos forest — a battle that is part of a larger war sparked by growing infiltration across the LoC ahead of elections to Jammu and Kashmir’s legislative assembly.

In the years since the Kargil war, there have been substantial investments in technology — but it isn’t foolproof yet. Thermal imagers, imported from Israel, are ineffective in fog, and their battery life drops sharply in extreme cold. Battlefield surveillance radar isn’t always able to pick up movement in the rocky gullies cutting up the moutains. There’s no option but to build the wall, metre by painstaking metre, and walk it, every day.

Even in the last few weeks, as violence has escalated, the LoC remains relatively peaceful. Part of the reason for that, senior military officials say, is that a policy of aggressive retaliation was put in place last summer, after Indian troops were targeted in a series of ambushes and improvised explosive device attacks alone the LoC — starting with the beading of two soldiers in January 2013. The tempo of these attacks built up steadily from 2008, culminating with major skirmishes at Charonda and Shalabhattu in Kashmir last year.

“It was a fool’s errand chasing after ambush parties in the forests,” a senior Indian military official told The Indian Express. “So we instead targeted military posts from where the attack had emanated, with force adequate to annihilate the position altogether.”

Few details have become available on the retaliation strategy, but outgoing Army Chief General Bikram Singh said earlier this year that India gave a “befitting reply” to the attacks.

“Essentially”, the officer said, “Pakistan’s strategy now seems to be to keep the LoC alive to aid infiltration, but stop short of action that would invite major Indian retaliation. Heating things up just aids infiltration, so we exercise restraint too.”

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 02 Sep 2014 14:46

ravip wrote:I don't know whether I am speculating or not.

But seeing the reports I have a strong gut feeling that the recent cease fire violations are an attempt of ethnic cleansing by shelling the areas of jammu which have a majority of sikh & Hindu population or may be this might an attempt to create fear in people or stop the mission 44 of BJP.

This effort of Pakis is getting active political support from the abdullas and other Mulla's , they are trying there best to keep there flock together to resist the mission 44.

Please tweet this many many times over, also on facebook!

nash · Post by **nash** » 02 Sep 2014 15:40

Dhananjay wrote:
ravip wrote:I don't know whether I am speculating or not.

But seeing the reports I have a strong gut feeling that the recent cease fire violations are an attempt of ethnic cleansing by shelling the areas of jammu which have a majority of sikh & Hindu population or may be this might an attempt to create fear in people or stop the mission 44 of BJP.

This effort of Pakis is getting active political support from the abdullas and other Mulla's , they are trying there best to keep there flock together to resist the mission 44.
Please tweet this many many times over, also on facebook!

I think it is already known to many people and kind of PMO we have in the center they will surely know about this evil trait and we can already see the effect of this things. J&K and jharkhand election is delinked from Maha and Haryana. It will now happen on December, in winter, and now it will be possible for GoI to concentrate more troops, police and other security forces in J&K.

srai · Post by **srai** » 11 Sep 2014 09:47

sum wrote:From Praveen Swami:
Pak infiltrators out there somewhere in the forest…waiting, just like us
...

In the years since the Kargil war, there have been substantial investments in technology — but it isn’t foolproof yet. Thermal imagers, imported from Israel, are ineffective in fog, and their battery life drops sharply in extreme cold. Battlefield surveillance radar isn’t always able to pick up movement in the rocky gullies cutting up the moutains. There’s no option but to build the wall, metre by painstaking metre, and walk it, every day.

Even in the last few weeks, as violence has escalated, the LoC remains relatively peaceful. Part of the reason for that, senior military officials say, is that a policy of aggressive retaliation was put in place last summer, after Indian troops were targeted in a series of ambushes and improvised explosive device attacks alone the LoC — starting with the beading of two soldiers in January 2013. The tempo of these attacks built up steadily from 2008, culminating with major skirmishes at Charonda and Shalabhattu in Kashmir last year.

“It was a fool’s errand chasing after ambush parties in the forests,” a senior Indian military official told The Indian Express. “So we instead targeted military posts from where the attack had emanated, with force adequate to annihilate the position altogether.”

Few details have become available on the retaliation strategy, but outgoing Army Chief General Bikram Singh said earlier this year that India gave a “befitting reply” to the attacks.

“Essentially”, the officer said, “Pakistan’s strategy now seems to be to keep the LoC alive to aid infiltration, but stop short of action that would invite major Indian retaliation. Heating things up just aids infiltration, so we exercise restraint too.”

I wonder how much WLR is used by the IA/BSF for counter-battery fire on PA's artillery. One would imagine quite a few PA batteries to be out of commission by now if WLR is being used extensively. Other useful intel gathering would be to map the coordinates of all of the firing positions that the PA batteries are using across the LOC. In any future conflicts, special forces could sniff out these locations and destroy any that they find.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Sep 2014 12:46

^^So they are lowering the simmer heat, while we lower the boiling point temperature, looks like.

pushkar.bhat · Post by **pushkar.bhat** » 17 Sep 2014 19:28

Wonder if this qualifies as Border Ops.

Pakistan protests over Afghan attack from across border

The attack was successfully repulsed by the Pakistan Military troops inflicting casualties to the terrorists.
radio
A strong protest has been lodged with Afghanistan over a physical attack launched by terrorists from across the border in the North Waziristan area.
According to the Foreign Office Spokesperson, between 90 to 100 terrorists entered Pakistan territory yesterday from recently established sanctuaries and safe havens across the border in Khost, Afghanistan, opposite North Waziristan.
The attack was successfully repulsed by the Pakistan Military troops inflicting casualties to the terrorists who fled back to Afghanistan leaving behind three dead bodies. Four Pakistani Military soldiers embraced shahadat while repulsing the attack.
While lodging the protest over the terrorist attack, serious concerns were conveyed to the Afghan side on the developing threats from the recently established sanctuaries across the border in Khost and Paktika Provinces.
It was reiterated that at a time when Pakistan authorities were undertaking a monumental effort against terrorists through the military operation Zarb-e-Azb, all possible cooperation was expected from the Afghan side, who must take tangible steps to eliminate these sanctuaries and safe havens to avoid recurrence of such attacks.

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 17 Sep 2014 23:01

Does this mean that, as per pakistani wordplay, a hundred freedom fighters crossed border but pakistani fauj didn't welcome the freedom fighters. Instead, the paki fauj attacked freedom fighters and killed 3 freedom fighters. Notice the words appearing in pakistani wordplay like terrorists, sanctuary, cooperation, etc etc! Jab gidhad ki maut aati he to sheher ki aur bhaagtaa he. Pakis pretending to be civilized on one border and trying to make freedom fighters look bad on the other border.

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 17 Sep 2014 23:38

This is being Tweeted Live as I Type by @Nitin Gokhle of NDTV. -> Newsbreak: nearly 1,000 PLA troops have intruded 4-5 km into Indian territory at Chumur; situation very tense. Talks so far inconclusive.

Now That is a serious Number

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 17 Sep 2014 23:45

14 Corps Rushed in