Fake, failed and nonsensical military/war assumptions

[Lalmohan]

dont forget the 1:10 ratio for ghazis:kaffirs

[abhik]

While other Air Forces of the world make do with only one or two different types(by weight) of fighters aircraft, the Indian Air Force due to some special reasons needs three distinct fighter classes:- Light, Medium and Heavy. We desperately need the Rafale "Medium" fighter aircraft because the LCA is too light and the MKI is too heavy (BTW does this remind you guys of Goldilocks or am I the only?).

[shiv]

Building bombers will deter others from bombing you.

[Austin]

^^ Add to that you need a 5th Gen fighter to take on another 5th Gen fighter else we are doomed.

[Lalmohan]

green robed djinns on camels lead the faithful army backed by hooris against the kaffir... wait a minute, thats true isnt it?

[member_20317]

Jingos make war not love.

[Sanku]

While other Air Forces of the world make do with only one or two different types(by weight) of fighters aircraft, the Indian Air Force due to some special reasons needs three distinct fighter classes:- Light, Medium and Heavy. We desperately need the Rafale "Medium" fighter aircraft because the LCA is too light and the MKI is too heavy (BTW does this remind you guys of Goldilocks or am I the only?).

Err -- we all know that all IAF wants is more capable a/c to make up numbers ASAP. Preferably from Non russian sources for diversity.

The classification is born out of the need to confuse and confound the MoD, and also provide some sort of framework in which a Multi vendor selection could be carried out without needing to invite every a/c in the world to participate (although we did pretty much that anyway)

I dont get what are the assumptions here? Its just a classification for bureaucracy, which absolutely loves to have such things.

[Lalmohan]

I dont get what are the assumptions here? Its just a classification for bureaucracy, which absolutely loves to have such things.

lets just add it to the list of things you don't get, eh?

[Sanku]

I dont get what are the assumptions here? Its just a classification for bureaucracy, which absolutely loves to have such things.

lets just add it to the list of things you don't get, eh?

Thats not a list that one should aspire to get to.

[darshhan]

Shiv ji, One of the biggest military myths is that active involvement of Private sector in Indian defense sector will prove to be a silver bullet for all military issues that India is facing and Soon afterwards India will turn into a super duper power.

[Lalmohan]

^^^ i thought america was going to make india a super power?

[TSJones]

^^^ i thought america was going to make india a super power?

Only if India joins the F-35 program. Come over to the dark side and see what short, stubby a/c can do for you.........

[Lalmohan]

^^^ true dat...

[Victor]

The elephant in the room:

Take the Soviet model of the Public Sector Undertaking (PSU), strip off all the accountability, add in layers of world-renowned Indian politics and bureaucracy and expect it to produce weapons to defend ourselves. It doesn't matter that the Soviet model relied on discipline, rewards, punishment and strict accountability at all levels—we Indians don't need these crude material things. Patriotism and passion alone will suffice. It doesn't matter that the Soviet Union failed and collapsed or that they changed course immediately and went free markets along with the Chinese on an urgent and massive scale or that the whole of Eastern Europe followed suit. It is also of no consequence to us that Asian countries that rejected the PSU model and were below us socially and economically in the 50s and 60s—S. Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand--are now far ahead of us. We are Indians and the PSU is the best model for us because the private sector is evil, greedy, anti-national and basically incapable of dabbling in the super-complicated voodoo of defence engineering.

[Victor]

Another one:

The indigenous [insert name of project here] is delayed by [insert number of decades here] and over budget by [insert number of thousand crores here] because [insert country here] will not hand over their technology to us (aka sanction) and [choose one: army/air force/navy] did not take "ownership".

In the meantime, private Indian companies (who are incapable of messing with complicated defence technology) have built the largest, most efficient oil refinery in the world because they [choose one or more: tricked/bribed/blackmailed] Bechtel into providing consultancy. The private Indian auto industry has become a world-class producer of cars, trucks and components, even overtaking china in auto exports because it is (insert anything that comes to mind here).

[Kersi D]

The elephant in the room:

Take the Soviet model of the Public Sector Undertaking (PSU), strip off all the accountability, add in layers of world-renowned Indian politics and bureaucracy and expect it to produce weapons to defend ourselves. It doesn't matter that the Soviet model relied on discipline, rewards, punishment and strict accountability at all levels—we Indians don't need these crude material things. Patriotism and passion alone will suffice. It doesn't matter that the Soviet Union failed and collapsed or that they changed course immediately and went free markets along with the Chinese on an urgent and massive scale or that the whole of Eastern Europe followed suit. It is also of no consequence to us that Asian countries that rejected the PSU model and were below us socially and economically in the 50s and 60s—S. Korea, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Thailand--are now far ahead of us. We are Indians and the PSU is the best model for us because the private sector is evil, greedy, anti-national and basically incapable of dabbling in the super-complicated voodoo of defence engineering.

[Kersi D]

Over the years I have heard, in various place, the media, on BRF and in person a number of "predictions", allegations and nonsensical questions which keep coming up over and over again. I just felt it might be a good idea to document them and collect them in one thread that can be updated from time to time. I will start with a list of things that I have heard, in no particular order.
9. The era of manned aircraft will soon be over. All wars will be fought by UCAVs

[/list]

Shiv, in my school and college days (i.e. few decades ago) I used to read MECCANO MAGAZINE, which had 'Air News' as a regular feature. I recall reading a article in an old MM of 1950s that 'English Electric P1 (BAE Lightning) would be the last manned (British) fighter and only missiles will be used in future.

Today whenever anybody talks similar about UAV/UCAV/UXYZW I recollect this article.

K

[Indranil]

If you have the ability to launch a satellite into orbit, you have the ability to strike anywhere on earth.

[SaiK]

provided the reentry survives.

[rajanb]

provided the reentry survives.

Not necessarily. Unsurvivable re-entry will lead to debris bonking people/targets on their heads. So more satellites required.

Some may also be molten metal; aka space napalm.

[vic]

Failed assumption: Importing weapons will provide sophisticated balls to help you take on China

Reality check: Sophisticated imported weapons don't help was realized by Pakistan even as far back as 1965

[KrishnaK]

vic, we fought all our wars with imported weapons and managed to fare decently in most of those.