Indian Space Programme Discussion

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 May 2016 10:20

^ Yes., the virtual landing was not part of the mission. Their simulation and algorithms was better than expected and they could manage to control RLV to a precise point. Actually they expected it to crash and burn., that is why they had planned for LEX after HEX., this one was HEX.

In effect they ended up doing both HEX & LEX. And that is why the statement from Dr. Sivan that they may have to rethink their experiments. Maybe directly go for landing on a runway and in parallel hints are being dropped on scaling up the program.

Of course there will be articles that will try to "reset expectations" like this is "no hanuman leap" etc., but in reality a major breakthrough has been made.

1. We have complete control laws to autonomously fly a wing'ed body from Hypersonic to subsonic regimes
2. Flush instrumentation works and works well. That is instead of pitot tubes for measuring air data jutting out which will burn up in hypersonic regimes., we have "flush instrumentation".
3. Flush mount Antenna's
4. Aero-hydraulics
5. Carbon-Carbon composites, silica tiles and flexible heat shields (3 different types)

If above is not a giant leap., I am not sure what is a giant leap

disha · Post by **disha** » 25 May 2016 10:21

juvva wrote:From the video the craft seems to have landed short of intended range. Maybe the guide model for the subsonic part requires some tweaking.

+1. At least they now have the data and they can compare the data with their control laws and with the simulation and see what can be tweaked.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 May 2016 10:33

ISRO to test rocket that takes its fuel from air - Dennis Jesudasan, The Hindu

After successfully testing a technology demonstrator of a reusable launch vehicle, Indian Space Research Organisation (ISRO) is planning to test an air-breathing propulsion system, which aims to capitalise on the oxygen in the atmosphere instead of liquefied oxygen while in flight.

“The mission to test the technology would be launched either in the last week of June or early July from Satish Dhawan Space Centre at Sriharikota. The mission would be on a sounding rocket,” K. Sivan, Director of the Thiruvananthapuram-based Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre told The Hindu .

Generally, vehicles used to launch satellites into space use combustion of propellants with oxidiser and fuel. Air breathing propulsion system aims at use oxygen present in the atmosphere up to 50 km from the earth’s surface to burn the fuel stored in the rocket.

Lower lift-off mass

“This system, when implemented, would help in reducing the lift-off mass of the vehicle since liquefied oxygen need not be carried on board the vehicle. This would also help increasing the efficiency of the rocket and also make it cost-effective,” Mr. Sivan said.

The new propulsion system, once mastered, would complement ISRO’s aim to develop a reusable launch vehicle, which would have longer flight duration. The system, involving the scramjet engine, would become crucial while sending up the spacecraft.

“This is like satellites making use of solar power. Likewise, this technology aims to take oxygen from the atmosphere instead of carrying it all the way,” he explained.

According to ISRO, the Dual Mode Ramjet (DMRJ), the ramjet-scramjet combination, “is currently under development, which will operate during the crucial Mach 3 to Mach 9 ascend flight of the launch vehicle.”

ISRO is now evolving and testing various technologies to bring down the cost of launch vehicles. The national space agency had earlier developed rockets that can send multiple satellites in a single mission.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 25 May 2016 10:42

disha wrote: 2. Flush instrumentation works and works well. That is instead of pitot tubes for measuring air data jutting out which will burn up in hypersonic regimes., we have "flush instrumentation".

Very very interesting. I hope the HAL/ADA folks are looking very carefully at this.

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 25 May 2016 12:31

Was it possible to use a chase plane to capture the landing phase of the RLV-TD, or is the 500 km range too far off, for such aircraft?

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 25 May 2016 13:10

^^^ I think RLV-TD could have been too fast for a chase plane

juvva · Post by **juvva** » 25 May 2016 13:26

Kakarat wrote:^^^ I think RLV-TD could have been too fast for a chase plane

The plane(s) could have waited circling in the landing zone.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 May 2016 16:04

juvva, the chase planes cannot fly cross-range, due to range safety issues. This floater was an unexpected outcome and we should be glad that atleast we got the tail-cam! But let us hope at some point, they release a pic of that tiny floater in the vast ocean. The waves must have been washing over it or was mostly underwater, as per the CG assessment. So they too cant approach it and attach floats et al.

But the best thing to happen is the PR for the small team that made this happen. The mileage is tremendous enough, that budgets will get released much faster from the Dilli bean-counters. Plus, still waiting for cheen's riposte

This is the second time in two years that India is putting its hands in the pocket and whistling its way to glory on a packet of masala-peanuts.

(btw, the controls for those over grown fins on the SLV stage must have needed quite a bit of re-work, since the shuttle has non-standard downwash, thanks to wings and such)

nits · Post by **nits** » 25 May 2016 16:13

ISRO is ready to give the Americans a run for their money

As India successfully flight-tested the indigenous winged Reusable Launch Vehicle, Shobha Warrier/Rediff.com spoke to former Indian Space Research Organisation chairman G Madhavan Nair about how will change India’s space research.

Some good Info there in interview

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 25 May 2016 17:08

@nits, thanks for posting the interview. The key takeaway I had from the interview is that policy paralysis of the government affects's ISRO's long term efficiency and that ISRO has not yet evolved (and got approval and budget for) any longer term plans after 2020. A 10 year and 20 year mission statement and aggressive goals are a must to keep the momentum and ensure that we don't lag behind.

The Chinese have set some lofty goals such as human space flight and international space station and to conduct long term manned experiments on the moon including a lunar base.

ISRO is lucky in the sense that it has had some good leadership so far and should further accelerate the work and take tough decisions to improve private participation even further - not just to fabricate components but involve private industry and R&D stage itself. At a very minimum, rocket launches of established vehicles and marketing that capability to the world should be given to private players.

Let ISRO establish a third greenfield launching pad near the equator in southern TN (which will save fuel compared to SHAR launching site) and give the licensed manufacturing of PSLV and satellite construction to private players. Let private players own and operate this commercial launch pad and earn India some good ForEx. The monitization of PSLV is sub par and privatisation can change that.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 25 May 2016 17:31

Someone in the government who can be technically savvy and crunch numbers such as Piyush Goyal or Manohar Parrikar is put incharge of restructuring ISRO to make it fit for the next 50 years. While ISRO has made us very proud with its accomplishments so far, I believe it has reached a state where in order to scale at the same pace (or even increase the pace) some large and bold moves are required. The biggest management / psychological challenge for any organization is to move away from incremental innovation to thinking big and disruptive. Secondly, even more complex challenge is letting go of control. Both of these would need visionary executive leadership (no science skills required).

Two specific areas where a foresighted political leadership can help:

1. Restructure ISRO into research (ISRO-R) and commercial operations (ISRO-C) and privatize commercial operations. Every mature launch vehicle and technology made by ISRO-R should be licenced to ISRO-C, which would need to be a publicly traded, for-profit organization run by professional management outside of government control (except in some aspects related to strategic matters and technology transfers to foreign or domestic entitites). The earlier attempt at privatisation are half-hearted and haven't had great success. We need to go all the way. Do not just outsource marketing, outsource the entire satellite launching business. Why should ISRO (a government organization with tax payer money) be the entity to worry about launching satellites of private players and universities in US or UK? It is a shame that a launch vehicle that is so cost effective such as PSLV is not raking in more revenue than what it is already raking in. Privatizing PSLV would have led to formation of atleast couple of comercial satellite launching pads at optimal locations with highly streamlined supply chain and manufacturing process. It would have further reduced the cost of PSLV launches.

2. Substantially increase funding for research along with evolving a roadmap to involve private industry in a much more aggressive manner and with a medium term road map towards sustainability. Licensing fees paid by ISRO-C would be the primary source of revenue. Develop an entire space eco-system with centers of excellences in IISc / IITs and policy incentives for private players in both research and manufacturing in space related areas. ISRO-R's success must be measured in the creativity, innovativeness and of technology that is developed and speed of project execution. Government should publicly announce a 20 year roadmap with yearly milestones so that this organization can be run transparently and does not go the way of DRDO.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 25 May 2016 18:21

^1. Antrix (twisted version of 'Antariksh') is ISRO's commercial arm. Has been in existence and has already had its share of controversies too (the Devas deal, for one).

2. PSLV's sat launch order book is overfull - full at least for the next 2-3 years IIRC.

3. UPA-2 has been a disgrace in more ways than one, clearly. The need to institutionalize and ringfence their budgets for the high-risk bets ISRO will undertake in the next decade+ is critical. Only.

4. Wonder if Indian military has a unkil-style 'space command' and how it interfaces with ISRO, if at all. India certainly needs one in any case.

schinnas · Post by **schinnas** » 25 May 2016 21:43

Hari Seldon wrote:^1. Antrix (twisted version of 'Antariksh') is ISRO's commercial arm. Has been in existence and has already had its share of controversies too (the Devas deal, for one).

2. PSLV's sat launch order book is overfull - full at least for the next 2-3 years IIRC.

3. UPA-2 has been a disgrace in more ways than one, clearly. The need to institutionalize and ringfence their budgets for the high-risk bets ISRO will undertake in the next decade+ is critical. Only.

4. Wonder if Indian military has a unkil-style 'space command' and how it interfaces with ISRO, if at all. India certainly needs one in any case.

1. I consider Antrix as a half baked idea which didn't go all the way. The whole launch program should be privatised - not just the sales and marketing. ISRO leadership, just like any other leadership loathes to give up control. Government should make them do it.

2. PSLV sat launch order book is full because ISRO is not a commercial company that can scale its assembly and supply chain. Reliance or Adani group or L&T would have built additional launch pads and optimized the supply chain to launch one PSLV a week to meet the demand as long as there is profit to be made. This is really sorry state of affairs to hear the excuse that PSLV order book is full.

3 & 4 are not related to the ideas I am suggesting and so no comments.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 25 May 2016 21:49

schinnas, please do take your opinions and decrees on what ISRO should and should not do, to the newbie thread. No more here.

In general for everyone, do not bring in SpaceX and other things irrelevant to India's space needs in this thread. Use the International Aerospace thread. Thanks

member_29267 · Post by **member_29267** » 26 May 2016 04:12

Annual Report for 2015-16 is out!!!

Lots of interesting stuff...Will try to provide an overview of the most significant updates later.

Annual Report for 2015-16

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 26 May 2016 04:50

From my first quick sweep of the annual report :

1. tele-education network has 60,000 class rooms connected to various academic institutions and universities.

2. Telemedicine facilities cover 380 hospitals connecting 302 rural hospitals and 18 mobile vans to
60 super speciality hospitals for providing health care. Seven new telemedicine nodes at
Chardhams, Kailash Mansarovar, Amarnath & Ayyappa pilgrimage places are being set up. Additionally,
8 new telemedicine nodes covering one district each in Himachal Pradesh, Odisha, Arunachal Pradesh
and Meghalaya are planned for set up in this financial year. four telemedicine nodes at ESI hospitals are also planned before March 31, 2016.

3. satellite data support (28 scenes) was provided for 10 emergency requests from Vietnam,
Pakistan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Japan, Myanmar, Nepal and Taiwan for floods, oil spill, landslides
and Typhoon disasters

4. Department of Space has associated more than 500 small, medium and large scale industries while implementing various programmes & has transferred about 300 technologies to Indian
industries for commercialisation and undertaken technical consultancies in various fields.

5. ISRO signed cooperative agreements with the French, Canadian, Russian and Chinese space agencies as well the US Geological Survey, Jet Propulsion Laboratory and Kuwait Institute of Scientific Research.

6. 99 students of 2011 batch of B. Tech graduates from Indian Institute of Space Science and Technology Thiruvananthapuram were placed as Scientists/Engineers at various centres of ISRO in 2015.

7. A Semi-cryogenic Cold Flow Test facility (SCFT) has been established at IPRC, Mahendragiri for the development, qualification and acceptance testing of semi-cryogenic engine subsystems.

8. Towards the realisation of the ground segment of IRNSS, ISTRAC has established a network of
stations to support IRNSS satellites consisting of ISRO Navigation Centre (INC) at Byalalu (40 km from
Bengaluru), four CDMA Ranging stations at Hassan, Bhopal, Jodhpur and Shillong and twelve IRNSS
Range and Integrity Monitoring Stations at Bengaluru, Hassan, Bhopal, Jodhpur, Shillong, Dehradun,
Port Blair, Mahendragiri, Lucknow, Kolkata, Udaipur, Shadnagar and Pune and one IRNWT facility at
Bengaluru.

9. LEOS [The un-sexy but critical stuff] - Optics systems include both reflective mirror optics and refractive multi element optics for astronomical/scientific purposes, cartographic applications, remote sensing and meteorological payloads. Other special elements developed by LEOS include optical masks for sun sensors, black absorber coatings for star sensor optics, optical filters, narrow band filters, encoder and optical coatings.

Research & Development programme of LEOS includes development of miniature sensors, Active Pixel
Sensor, Miniature star tracker, Vision Sensors, Detectors, MEMS devices, Segmented Mirror Telescope
optics and advanced optics for future spacecraft use.

New facilities incorporated during 2015 include installation of Gross Leak Tester, 0.3M Dia Thermovac
system and Dome for Telescope Laser Ranging. Sensor production building (Aryabhata Building) and
‘Optics & MEMS’ building have become operational in 2015. The new facilities established at Aryabhata
Building includes ultra precision CNC cell centering and turning machine, 3.5 T Vibration shaker system,
0.8 M Thermovac system, LN2 Tank (15 KL), Temperature test chamber, Humidity chamber, Particle
counter, 2-Axis motion simulator, Nitrogen purged chambers (4 Nos.) and DRUPS power supply unit.

10. PRL has initiated scientific programmes in frontier areas of research including the search for exoplanets, laboratory studies of interstellar grains, laboratory synthesis of astro-molecules and experimental studies in the field of quantum optics.

11. SCL - Upgradation of Wafer Fabrication Lab has been completed and 8” CMOS Wafer Fabrication
Line is geared-up for production activities. Indigenisation of Electronics Boards for Indian Air Force

12. GSAT 6 unfurlable antenna. A nice illustration of this 'topi' antenna on page 27.

13. GSAT 11 - advanced communication satellite employing a new class of bus weighing
4000-6000 Kg. The commercial payload includes Ka x Ku-Band Forward Link Transponders and
Ku x Ka band Return Link Transponders.

14. GSAT-19 - planned for the first developmental flight of the indigenous GSLV-Mk III-D1 Launcher. Will have Geostationary Radiation Spectrometer (GRASP) payload to monitor and study the nature of the charged particles and influence of space radiation on spacecraft and electronic components.

Will employ advanced spacecraft technologies including bus subsystem experiments in
Electrical propulsion System, indigenous Li ion battery, indigenous Bus bars for power distribution

15. GAGAN System was certified to APV1/1.5 level in April 2015 to offer precision approach services over the Indian land mass

16. Cartosat-2E is capable of along track and across track steering, nominally up to ± 260 providing spot images in continuous imaging mode

17. Cartosat-3 dual gimbal antenna

18.GISAT-1: a geo imaging satellite operating from geostationary orbit to provide high temporal resolution. Provide near real time images of the large areas of the country, under cloud free conditions, at frequent intervals. This means, selected sector-wise image every 5 minutes and entire Indian landmass image every 30 minutes at 50 m spatial resolution.

19. New ground station for RISAT-1 in Norway.

20. CartoDEM v 3.0 was generated for SAARC countries (India, Bangladesh, Nepal, Bhutan, Pakistan and Afghanistan) and 30 m DEM was made available on Bhuvan portal for free download

21. BHUVAN new application services include - 1m images (over 300 cities of the country), Cultural heritage sites of the country, Virtual 3D city models,

22. Vegetation Health Index (VHI) product from OCM-2: warn drought over Indian sub-continent. Fortnightly VHI products at 5 km resolution are being generated and hosted on Bhuvan.

23. GCPL Phase-III: total t 8,500 GCPs,(Ground Control Points for geometric location accuracy of future Cartosat mission requirements with accuracy better than 50 cm

24. DTH As at March 2015, there are about 76.05 Million registered DTH subscribers, 41.15 active DTH subscribers and about 829 TV channels

About 84 Ku-band transponders from both Indian and Leased satellites are catering to DTH television
services. Apart from DTH, about 30 C-band transponders are being used for supporting Television
uplink

25.A remote sensing based technique was developed for automated detection of forest cover loss of an area greater than 2 hectare for rapid annual monitoring. The forest pixels are identified on Resourcesat-2

26. ISRO has prepared a geospatial inventory of all islands using satellite images and developed an Island Information System. A total of 1238 islands have been identified and reconciled

27. Coastal aquifer mapping using Ground Penetrating Radar (GPR)

28. Spatial modeling of fluoride contamination in ground water

29. GSLV-F05 carrying INSAT-3DR satellite, is targeted for launch during the third quarter of 2016

30. GSLV Mk3 Post Flight Analysis (PFA) of GSLV-Mk III X-mission has proposed changes in vehicle configuration to improve robustness of GSLV-Mk III launch vehicle for all seasonal wind conditions. The changes in heat shield from bulbous to give and slanted nose cone for S200 strap-ons are being implemented and will be validated in GSLV-Mk III-D1 flight. In addition to above changes, grain configuration of head end segment of S200 motor was modified to reduce the peak dynamic pressure on the launch vehicle during atmospheric flight regime.

31. CE20/C25 successful accomplishment of 12 tests, which validated the structural integrity of engine
systems and demonstrated the repeatability of engine performance. Two cold flow tests and 10
hot tests including one flight duration hot test for 635 seconds and one extended duration hot test for 800 seconds were carried out

Realisation of C25 stage is in advanced stage. Propellant tanks are realised and engine & stage integration is in progress. The ground testing of C25 cryogenic stage is expected to be completed by the second half of 2016.

32. launch of GSLV-Mk III-D1, the first developmental flight carrying GSAT-19E satellite of mass 3200 kg, is targeted during last quarter of 2016.

33. Semi-cryo - seems to be doing well

34. Human Spaceflight Programme (HSP): Post flight assessment of the Crew Module, recovered from sea after the successful GSLV-Mk III/CARE sub-orbital mission in December 2014, indicated that all the objectives of the mission were achieved satisfactorily.

A high rate Inertial Navigation System is included in PAT (Pad Abort Test) flight for measuring
CM (Crew Module) attitude after separation from CES (Crew Escape System)

35. ABPP: Assembly and Integration of Air Breathing propulsion modules, namely. Scramjet Engines and Fuel Feed System for ATV-D02 flight, are in progress.

36. Mars Colour Camera (MCC) has acquired more than 440 images so far. By virtue of MOM’s unique
elliptical orbit, MCC could image the full Martian disc at single shot

37. Chandrayaan 2 planned to be launched by GSLV-MkII during the first quarter of 2018. Interfaces between Orbiter and GSLV-Mk II has been finalised. Lander:The 800 N Liquid Engines have undergone High Altitude Test (HAT) for a duration of 513 sec successfully.

38. ten technologies are licensed to Indian industries for commercialisation and regular
production. These include Barium Magnesium Tantalite (BMT) Ceramic, EPY-1061 Epoxy Resin, Benzoxazine Resin, 15 Watt C-band Solid State Power Amplifier (SSPA), EFA-4330 Film Adhesive, PC-10 Thermal Protection System, CSNM-0102 Adhesive, Polyimide Film, HESC/CSNM-29 Coating and SESCO-125 Flame Retardant.

39. Seventeen new patents were granted during the year including a UHF miniature microstrip patch antenna.

40. initiative of involving industry from early stages of the project has started yielding results. During the year, Cryogenic Upper Stage (CUS), Cryogenic Engine-CE20 and C25 engine realisation was carried out at two private sector industries.

major hardware realised by industry include CE20 engine gas generator assembly, CUS main turbo pump, CE20 liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen turbo pumps, CUS and C25 thrusting device assembly and interface elements for CE20 engine.

The semi-cryo engine fabrication consisting of six major packages, namely, booster
pump, pre burner, heat exchanger, main turbo pump, mixing head and thrust chamber, has been
entrusted to industry.

Private sector industry is carrying out endto-end production of components and modules involving raw material procurement, fabrication, assembly and testing for meeting the requirements of 2 PSLV, 2 GSLV and 3 GEOSAT satellites

Private sector industry at Coimbatore has established the infrastructure for carrying out fabrication, assembly and testing for Integrated Production of Control System Components and Modules (IPCS) for catering to the requirements of 4 PSLVs and 2 GSLVs per annum. Under IPCS, the components for PS0 and PS1 Secondary Injection Thrust Vector Control (SITVC), PS1 Reaction Control System (RCS) and modules for 4 PSLV missions were delivered.

industry is also involved in realising the propellant tanks and structures for CUS and C25 projects

Industry has been developed as a dedicated work centre for the end-to-end production of 21NA and
differential pressure transducers.

Long term strategic planning is essential for successfully meeting the requirements of increased launches. In line with ISRO’s policy of maximal industry participation, new initiatives are being implemented in various industries.

industry contributed in the fabrication and testing of solar panels for both communication and remote sensing satellites

eight sets of Solar Array Deployment Mechanism (SADM) for IRS and INSAT satellites were supplied by private industry. Shell type Reflector Deployment Mechanism is being realised by industry.

Industry has augmented facility to cater to the increased requirement of space-qualified batteries

Core power, distribution and shunt packages for SCATSAT and IRNSS-1G satellites were fabricated
and tested by industry

Space grade TCXO, OCXO, Ku-band receivers and frequency converters, C-band receivers, Ku-band LNA and driver amplifiers are few of the components where industry support is being utilised
...
---
[There is a lot more about industry participation in the report]

There is no doubt that in the coming days, our space programme is going to achieve greater heights with increased industry involvement in realising technologically complex and challenging missions.

41. Ah - the holy grail: Antrix - Sulabh Sauchalaya co-operation Antrix has undertaken efforts to build a sanitation facility in twenty Government Schools located in Malur Taluk, Kolar District, Karnataka, utilising the services of M/s. Sulabh International and with the involvement of Government of Karnataka

42. Not withstanding the heavily IED laden "Link language" thread on BRF

Progressive use of Hindi - Implementation of Hindi in the Department of Space (DOS) continued with vigor during the year.

I find it odd that there is no decade plan any more (which usually slips by decades but never mind that) - at least ISRO used to publish a plan. Like the Mayan calender which simply stopped, ISRO's plan in the report just stops at 2020.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 26 May 2016 07:32

What satellite data did the pakis want?? After the dramabazi on saarc-sat the mofos have some nerve.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 26 May 2016 08:37

This mission costed less than IAF deployment to Red Flag!

If ISRO could 'boost' RLV-TD enough to make round the world trips and perfect spacecraft recovery, then this could be a very useful spacecraft even with the 'TD' size.

It could have significant uses to the Aerospace command with low cost of the mission on an Agni type booster. It could serve some short term surveillance mission profiles like our own mini X-37B. Also potentially a small fleet ready to target LEO satellites in the event of a conflict.

ISRO could also retain this to test various technologies.

Long way to go in order to achieve all the inherent technologies, but I wouldn't discard the TD sized version.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 26 May 2016 10:00

Many thanks for the excellent summary rahulm garu.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 26 May 2016 15:06

I will hazard a guess estimate for functional RLV of 10T to LEO.

Resuable SRB of total mass 300 T with 267 T fuel as Ist stage with sp.impulse of 269s.

RLV of take off mass of 100T with empty weight of 15T and payload of 10T and cryogenic fuel of 75T with sp.impulse of 455s.

Velocity increment= ln3*269*9.8+ln4*455*9.8=9077m/s.

Advanced light weight materials and key weight targets will have to be met for the program to be a success.

Based on

http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/012arescantfly.html

Correction improvements are welcome. Can anyone simulate this using software.

Total take off mass will be 400T.

If weight targets are relaxed than takeoff mass can very well be 600T or even 800T for same capacity but the cost will increase.

For 4T GTO payload 6T additional cryo fuel can be carried by RLV in place of satellite payload to get an additional velocity increment of roughly 1200m/s though I have my doubts whether this will be sufficient velocity increment.

AbhiJ · Post by **AbhiJ** » 26 May 2016 18:23

When the Chinese launched their first human in space in 2003, Vajpayee announced that we will put a man on moon by 2020. That was a vision, very ambitious. For that to happen, we needed to put a human in space by 2012-2014 timeframe.

The UPA scuttled the manned mission which was meagre $2 Billion cost spread over 5 years. The PR and indirect benefits to the economy and country was worth 100 times over. The technologies which could have been developed for re-entering the Earth's atmosphere would have cut short the time required to develop RLV programme.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 26 May 2016 19:51

Any failure in the key programs will stop major investments into other. Here in this case, failure of GSLV put to stop many things. Even now any failure will stop lot of things in tracks

How ISRO was able to survive is because of PSLV and no failures originating from it. It may not be prudent to think that there wont be any failures in future

But again Govt might see failures from ISRO differently, but not sure about it

Also with HSF (Human Space flight) the failures are costly

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 26 May 2016 19:58

sankum wrote:I will hazard a guess estimate for functional RLV of 10T to LEO.

Based on

http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/012arescantfly.html

Correction improvements are welcome. Can anyone simulate this using software.

Total take off mass will be 400T.

If weight targets are relaxed than takeoff mass can very well be 600T or even 800T for same capacity but the cost will increase.

For 4T GTO payload 6T additional cryo fuel can be carried by RLV in place of satellite payload to get an additional velocity increment of roughly 1200m/s though I have my doubts whether this will be sufficient velocity increment.

Size always matters for rockets because of various other applications space vehicle technology will be used

ISRO has come a long way from less than a meter diameter sounding rockets, 1 meter diameter SLV/ASLV, 2.8 meter PSLV/GSLV to 4 meter GSLV-3

Plan is to get to a 7 meter one at a later point of time

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 27 May 2016 05:31

Duplicate deleted.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 27 May 2016 05:31

Heads up for the 10 June PSLV XL -C34 launch with Cartosat 2C as the primary payload. The launch has other payloads, however, of particular interest to me is SWAYAM, realised by the students of COE Pune, my alma mater.

Some pics

Satellite

Exploded view

Satellite frame

Spacecraft radiation pattern

College clean room

College ground station

Ground station antennas Please note the plastic chairs used to hold some antennas. Some things never change

Vibration testing

Internals

Project approved: 2009

Mission Objective: To demonstrate the control of orientation of satellite in its orbit without power consumption and to provide messaging services

Structure: pico satellite, dimensions 100 x 100 x 113.5 mm and mass less than 1 kg

Life: 6 months

Antenna: dipole

Power: 1 watt or 30 dBm

Attitude Control System: Passive Magnetic Attitude Control (PMACS) . The uniqueness of the technique is that it controls the orientation of satellite without any power consumption. Utilises the Earth’s magnetic field for attitude control and is the first of its kind in India

Orbit: sun-synchronous, low Earth, 500 km with 97-98 deg inclination.

Communications: half-duplex in the HAM band 434-438 MHz both for up-linking and down-linking. Frequency 437.025 MHz (UHF). Modulation - Binary Frequency Shift Keying (BFSK) deviation 9.6 kHz from the carrier frequency. Baud rate 1,200 bps

Ground Station: VU2COE (College Of Engineering, Pune, Shivajinagar). Here the Engineers, water hyacinth and sewage smell co-exist. I spent many a balmy afternoon trying to focus on fluid dynamics and triple integration from now to infinity with the smell from the river wafting through the class.

Ground station antenna: UHF Yagi array and egg beater

When I was a student , we had 2 (1x 15m, 1 x 20m) home brew centre fed HF dipoles mounted on bamboo poles (that's all we could afford) on the E&TC department roof. Rig was a YAESU 757GX with an APLAB linear power supply and a truck battery for back up/load shedding days. We mostly worked CW contacts and too many Russian Vlads.

SSB was used mostly for country contacts. Our antennas were simply not good enough for predictable DX SSB and there was no mentor in Pune we could turn to and ask for help. We learnt through trial and error and it was loads of fun. This is where I learnt first hand that getting a distinction in your subject is one thing but creating an actual product is a completely different game. Chalk and cheese.

Getting a rig was not easy. All were imported (I think they still are but the process is now easier) and my dad could not afford to get me one. I had to wait until I became an overseas 'DOO' to buy my first rig. The system would stymie enthusiasm and innovation at every possible turn, in every possible way.

One monsoon, one of the bamboo poles broke and from then on we had 2 sloper antenna's with just acceptable SWR to operate the rig. We did not have an antenna tuner.

We also had a home brew VHF 2 element cubical quad, a 3 element Yagi none of which we could rotate for want of a rotator - we just couldn't afford one. The club VU2 COE and the college were cash starved those days.

We started work on a HF Log Periodic Dipole Array (LPDA) but again, to lack of funds meant we could never finish it.

All our antennas were home brew

The college club has come a long way since those days and its pleasing to see they are on the cusp of launching a satellite.

PSLV-XL C34 will have between 19 and 21 payloads. In addition to CARTOSAT 2C and SWAYAM, it will have SathyaBama Sat from SathyaBama University taking the total number of Indian payloads to 3.

ANUSAT (Anna University Satellite) was the first satellite built by an Indian University under the over all guidance of ISRO

ISRO has already launched 5 student satellites already (ANUSAT, STUDSAT, YOUTHSAT, SRMSAT and JUGNU). YOUTHSAT was a Indian - Russian JV.

ISRO is a guru and Shikshak in the truest sense of the word. It excels in its field and equally importantly, perhaps, it is the only institute I can think of right now that is being a mentor, coaching, nurturing talent and capability across the country at the grass root level. This is having a vision for and creating the future.

Surprisingly, this is not listed in ISRO's goals and objectives, therefore, ISRO has exceeded it's objectives. Even more surprising to me, with all its achievements, the senior ISRO people are down to earth and humble. It's a non typical organisation in desh. We need more of these.

Sometimes, I wonder, how, despite the institutional morass generally (some exceptions may apply) afflicting civil institutions in the country, did a gem like ISRO emerge? What were the causal factors and can we repeat it?

All the best for the launch and to VU2COE. This one is close to me.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 27 May 2016 07:34

rahulm wrote:ISRO is a guru and Shikshak in the truest sense of the word. It excels in its field and equally importantly, perhaps, it is the only institute I can think of right now that is being a mentor, coaching, nurturing talent and capability across the country at the grass root level. This is having a vision for and creating the future.

Surprisingly, this is not listed in ISRO's goals and objectives, therefore, ISRO has exceeded it's objectives. Even more surprising to me, with all its achievements, the senior ISRO people are down to earth and humble. It's a non typical organisation in desh. We need more of these.

Sometimes, I wonder, how, despite the institutional morass generally (some exceptions may apply) afflicting civil institutions in the country, did a gem like ISRO emerge? What were the causal factors and can we repeat it?

All the best for the launch and to VU2COE. This one is close to me.

All the presnt and past staff are responsible for ISRO's success, but I would say 4 folks stand out. Vikram Sarabhai, Satish Dhawan, Abdul Kalam and TN Seshan. I have mentioned the same in the past, ISRO was simply lucky to get these folks and most importantly many of them had a chance to work with each other. For example, in VSSC, tea break even now in the morning means only between 10-1030. Not early and not later. It was something instituted by TN Seshan. It is even followed now

Also whatever news you hear that ISRO starting on a new path breaking area is not that they have started just now. They would have the idea long time back and had been working on it. The ground work will be silently done, later when it is ready for meshed into current programs, it will be announced. So by that time impediments would have been closed. For example, Air breathing engines were in development from past 25 years. But many outside will not know about that until it is ready to be part of a program

Strong QA - Anyone in the QA organization can go to the any level and escalate unresolved defects in their area. Although it is not liked by their development counterparts, it builds accountability and inturn creates success

kit · Post by **kit** » 27 May 2016 18:01

symontk wrote:
rahulm wrote:ISRO is a guru and Shikshak in the truest sense of the word. It excels in its field and equally importantly, perhaps, it is the only institute I can think of right now that is being a mentor, coaching, nurturing talent and capability across the country at the grass root level. This is having a vision for and creating the future.

Surprisingly, this is not listed in ISRO's goals and objectives, therefore, ISRO has exceeded it's objectives. Even more surprising to me, with all its achievements, the senior ISRO people are down to earth and humble. It's a non typical organisation in desh. We need more of these.

Sometimes, I wonder, how, despite the institutional morass generally (some exceptions may apply) afflicting civil institutions in the country, did a gem like ISRO emerge? What were the causal factors and can we repeat it?

All the best for the launch and to VU2COE. This one is close to me.
All the presnt and past staff are responsible for ISRO's success, but I would say 4 folks stand out. Vikram Sarabhai, Satish Dhawan, Abdul Kalam and TN Seshan. I have mentioned the same in the past, ISRO was simply lucky to get these folks and most importantly many of them had a chance to work with each other. For example, in VSSC, tea break even now in the morning means only between 10-1030. Not early and not later. It was something instituted by TN Seshan. It is even followed now

Also whatever news you hear that ISRO starting on a new path breaking area is not that they have started just now. They would have the idea long time back and had been working on it. The ground work will be silently done, later when it is ready for meshed into current programs, it will be announced. So by that time impediments would have been closed. For example, Air breathing engines were in development from past 25 years. But many outside will not know about that until it is ready to be part of a program

Strong QA - Anyone in the QA organization can go to the any level and escalate unresolved defects in their area. Although it is not liked by their development counterparts, it builds accountability and inturn creates success

in one word heritage .. just like a MIT or the IIS ISRO has a heritage of work culture.. the people are passionate about their work and ..they are duly rewarded for their efforts .. i think there are a few institutes in DRDO following these footsteps ..in time they will excel in their chosen endeavors

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 27 May 2016 19:49

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/isro ... 77502.html

Space shuttle, India style

Not a flight of fancy, reusable launchers are a necessity for ISRO to stay in business.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 May 2016 20:04

dhiraj wrote:http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/isro ... 77502.html

Space shuttle, India style

Not a flight of fancy, reusable launchers are a necessity for ISRO to stay in business.

This from 2007:

India's Space Ambitions Soar

Sridhar · Post by **Sridhar** » 27 May 2016 20:55

There were many contributory factors to ISRO's success and differences relative to other parts of the Government. And many people have played a role in making the organization what it is.

But according to some of the insiders I have spoken to including Satish Dhawan himself, one very important factor was the insulation of ISRO from Delhi by locating it in Bangalore (Dhawan insisted on it and got it, just like Bhabha insisted on the AEC being HQd in Bombay). Distance matters less now than before, when this insulation meant that ISRO was largely left alone by the bureaucracy, but is still a factor.

The second was a strong culture from the very outset, and nurtured by people ever since of openness and critical review. ISRO is a Govt. organization and is hierarchical, but relative to almost any other Govt. department, there is a culture that permits people to speak their minds. There are open review meetings with the entire team where people are free to speak and do so.

The third is a strong tradition of mentorship and grooming of young talent. There is politics in ISRO like in any organization, but senior people let younger people in their teams not just take responsibilities early on, but also let them take the spotlight when there is a success while shielding them if there is a failure. The contrast between an ISRO post-launch press conference, where so many people speak in addition to the chairman and mission director, and that of other Government agencies is striking. It may be boring to hear so many people speak, but it is ISRO's way of bringing the next generation of leaders to the fore early on.

Having said this, the culture needs to continue to be nurtured over time. So far, we have had ISRO chairmen and heads of Department who started their careers in the early days of ISRO and "grew up" in that cultural environment, and when the organization was still relatively small. That is now changing - hopefully the next generation will continue those traditions and processes of their superiors that have served the organization well so far.

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 27 May 2016 21:21

Another important thing is that the DOS/ISRO secretary isthe chief of ISRO himself and not some governmental babu. Sathish Dhawan was very insistent on this with Indira Gandhi. In fact she did not allow anyone to interfere. She realized the deficiencies they faced in previous wars and understood the importance of space/missiles carriers and submarines. All that we were deficient in.

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 May 2016 23:40

At the same time ISRO reports to PM. And it is not seen as a "revenue" post. One cannot put a Jayanti tax on ISRO. They can only put a Kalmadi filter (at best) on ISRO which will lead to some budget cuts and some grumbling scientists.

That did not stop the Devas/Antrix deal from happening., but it got caught on time and the deal got shelved.

So it does matter who is sitting at the top.

disha · Post by **disha** » 27 May 2016 23:46

I plan to make a series of posts based on the ISRO's annual report.

Some of the posts will attract comments., but only those commentators can comment if they answer honestly the question to this:

Dr. APJ Kalam was a person of many abilities. One of his ability was sprinting and though this was not timed., it does appear that he sprinted very fast and must have even beaten Usain Bolt.

Where, when, why - itiyadi, vagere, etc must be answered.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 May 2016 06:49

rahulm wrote: realised by the students of COE Pune, my alma mater.

Aah memories - used to pass by that every day on my way to school

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 28 May 2016 22:32

As per ISRO report they already seems to have started on 4-6k bus, which means a 7ton satellite to GTO. Our heavy lift capacity is seriously lagging. My guess is that earliest commercial launches of 7 ton satellites to GTO by ISRO is still 10 years away(?)

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 29 May 2016 02:26

Is that June 10th launch of PSLV with Cartosat 2C and ~20 other satellites confirmed, or has the launch been pushed back to the end of June?

Conflicting reports from different sources!

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 29 May 2016 05:29

No launch brochure and nothing on the ISRO website yet.

There is talk of 2 launches - the C34 in early June and a ABPP (scramjet) experiment end of June. From somewhere, I recall ISRO needs about 3 weeks between launches. i suspect if there is a delay it will in the order of weeks not longer.

There is another PSLV launch in July. ISRO will want to get these 3 launches done before the monsoon sets in.

Other than for technical reasons, if any launch has to be postponed to post monsoon, I think it will be the ABPP - the satellites will get priority.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 29 May 2016 05:32

....my way to school

Your way to School was going towards BJ or towards Pashan?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 29 May 2016 05:44

rahulm wrote:
....my way to school
Your way to School was going towards BJ or towards Pashan?

Towards BJ

member_23694 · Post by **member_23694** » 29 May 2016 05:55

Varoon Shekhar wrote:Is that June 10th launch of PSLV with Cartosat 2C and ~20 other satellites confirmed, or has the launch been pushed back to the end of June?

Conflicting reports from different sources!

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india/isr ... XUojL.html

Speaking on the sidelines of an event organised by the Federation of Karnataka Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FKCCI), Kumar said that of the 22 satellites, three are Indian and the rest are commercial. “The launch is scheduled during the end of next month,” he said.