Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 18 May 2015 12:51

When it comes to listing the problems with DRDO. You come up with MOD red tape. Finlay you and I have something that we both agree on.

But you will not get the joke.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 18 May 2015 12:52

^Funny how you don't hold your rondina friends to the same standards. The crooks take our money and ask for more to follow a contract they have signed on to. Then they given crap for products, grease the right wheels and always end up laughing on the way to the bank. DRDO is the way it is because it is kept that way, by the very same people who buy crap from rondina. If you have to point fingers, first point it at your masters up at the north.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 18 May 2015 12:53

UPA neither invested in OFB nor allowed Pvt Sector to set up ammo manufactering facilities. Now the Dalals are clamoring for imports.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 18 May 2015 13:01

Philip wrote:You can pick a few successes,but the DRDO's record is if anything a patchy one.Why we still import 70% of weaponry from abroad. The revamping of the DRDO has long been a subject of discussion in parliament,the media,etc.,but the reorganization has yet to be completed to yield meaningful results,why certain key systems are still years behind schedule.

I've seen some of the items that a co. has developed for the DRDO,supplied certain items for decades,but have to take the DRDO BS and are fed up.This time they weren't even interested in participating at the air show. One key item is probably on a firang system which has been sold to India! Giants like Godrej,Tatas,L&T,etc. have numerous ways in which they can influence govts. It is the innovative med/small entrepreneurs who suffer most the whims and fancies of the DRDO. I've asked a few cos. which can participate in certain sectors very well, but refuse .When asked why they do not ,they say because of the red tape,corruption,etc. The DRDO is no saint. This has nothing to do with Russian or any other firang imports. I know another co. which used to supply the IN/CG earlier and has stopped doing so for reasons mentioned above,MOD "red tape". Just one report on how the DRDO protects its incompetent kind.

http://corruptionindrdo.com/tag/cag/
PM scraps DRDO’s ‘retirement benefits’ committee
Posted on September 21, 2014 by admin

ABHINANDAN MISHRA New Delhi | 20th Sep 2014 – The Sunday Gaurdian
Prime Minister Narendra Modi has decided to scrap the Departmental Peer Review Committee (DPRCs) of the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) in an attempt to revamp the outfit. The main job of this committee of DRDO scientists is to grant extensions to fellow scientists. The committee has come under scrutiny after complaints that all that these scientists do is to park retiring and retired colleagues in important posts year after year. “The PM has ordered the scrapping of the committee that reviews cases to grant extension of service to scientists who are superannuating. Giving repeated extensions to scientists, whose capabilities could be questioned, is one of the major problems with the DRDO,” a DRDO official said.

What about retiring Babus, Politicos, Judges who sit on Boards of various PSUs, Banks, DPSUs, Tribunals, Co-operative societies, Advisory Panels, Committees, Boards, Inquiries, Arbitrations etc well into Seventies and even Eighties years of age.

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 18 May 2015 13:13

Philip wrote:You can pick a few successes,but the DRDO's record is if anything a patchy one.Why we still import 70% of weaponry from abroad. The revamping of the DRDO has long been a subject of discussion in parliament,the media,etc.,but the reorganization has yet to be completed to yield meaningful results,why certain key systems are still years behind schedule.

Philip sir, you as well as everyone on BR knows, this 70% crap is not true anymore. As of based on the data from last 4 years, it stands at the 60% and I expect it to get better during next decade. We still import large number of sub-system, which slowly will be replaced as and when these are locally designed or produced. DRDO might not be the super efficient but it is also not as bad as it is being projected by many.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 May 2015 14:01

Philip wrote:You can pick a few successes,but the DRDO's record is if anything a patchy one.Why we still import 70% of weaponry from abroad. The revamping of the DRDO has long been a subject of discussion in parliament,the media,etc.,but the reorganization has yet to be completed to yield meaningful results,why certain key systems are still years behind schedule.

More hand waving. At least get the numbers right & list out category by category what we import what we don't. That will tell everyone here how much you really can discern things as versus merely copy pasting media rubbish happily paid for by your russian friends and others arms vendors.

I've seen some of the items that a co. has developed for the DRDO,supplied certain items for decades,but have to take the DRDO BS and are fed up.This time they weren't even interested in participating at the air show. One key item is probably on a firang system which has been sold to India! Giants like Godrej,Tatas,L&T,etc. have numerous ways in which they can influence govts. It is the innovative med/small entrepreneurs who suffer most the whims and fancies of the DRDO.

Your stories are all very well but as usual they fall flat and are just plain bombast.

Of the firms listed above, most were SMEs apart from Godrej, Tata's, Walchandnagar and L&T.

Here in bold to compensate for your lack of reading comprehension.

Alpha Microwave, L&T, Godrej&Boyce, Data Patterns, HBL Electronics, VEM Technologies, SLN Tech, Tata SED, System Controls, Alligator Design, Pinaka Aerospace, Alpha Design Tech, Walchandnagar co[/b]

You sit and pontificate on topics you won't be even bothered to look up.

Clearly hundreds of firms out there are doing good business with DRDO, dont think its BS.

Somehow, the company you keep is all about similar patterns.

Praise for Russian crooks, contempt for Indian organizations which actually give the Indian private sector a fighting chance.

I've asked a few cos. which can participate in certain sectors very well, but refuse .When asked why they do not ,they say because of the red tape,corruption,etc. The DRDO is no saint. This has nothing to do with Russian or any other firang imports. I know another co. which used to supply the IN/CG earlier and has stopped doing so for reasons mentioned above,MOD "red tape".

ROTFL, what does DRDO have to do with MOD policies? So the DRDO is now responsible for supplying to the IN/CG as well. Wonders never cease.

Perhaps they run the Govt as well, secretly?

Above, there was a clear report which mentioned how DRDO actually bats for the private sector & has consistently supported them.

Since it doesn't fit your agenda, its conveniently dismissed.

Just one report on how the DRDO protects its incompetent kind
http://corruptionindrdo.com/tag/cag/
PM scraps DRDO’s ‘retirement benefits’ committee
Posted on September 21, 2014 by admin

ABHINANDAN MISHRA New Delhi | 20th Sep 2014 – The Sunday Gaurdian
Prime Minister Narendra Modi has decided to scrap the Departmental Peer Review Committee (DPRCs) of the Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) in an attempt to revamp the outfit. The main job of this committee of DRDO scientists is to grant extensions to fellow scientists. The committee has come under scrutiny after complaints that all that these scientists do is to park retiring and retired colleagues in important posts year after year. “The PM has ordered the scrapping of the committee that reviews cases to grant extension of service to scientists who are superannuating. Giving repeated extensions to scientists, whose capabilities could be questioned, is one of the major problems with the DRDO,” a DRDO official said.

ROTFL - typical Phillip bombast quoting some mass media article.

How is this corruption? DRDO decides what scientists it needs & extends offers because it does not want to lose their experience. It does so because its running short of people since there was a tacit freeze on recruitment which has been recently rescinded.

If the Modi govt stops this policy, its because its also opening up funding for renewed recruitment elsewhere.

PS: The Russians whose footmarks you so fervently kiss, keep their 80+ year old scientists around because they can still contribute. Go figure.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 18 May 2015 14:07

RKumar wrote:
Philip wrote:You can pick a few successes,but the DRDO's record is if anything a patchy one.Why we still import 70% of weaponry from abroad. The revamping of the DRDO has long been a subject of discussion in parliament,the media,etc.,but the reorganization has yet to be completed to yield meaningful results,why certain key systems are still years behind schedule.
Philip sir, you as well as everyone on BR knows, this 70% crap is not true anymore. As of based on the data from last 4 years, it stands at the 60% and I expect it to get better during next decade. We still import large number of sub-system, which slowly will be replaced as and when these are locally designed or produced. DRDO might not be the super efficient but it is also not as bad as it is being projected by many.

You are speaking to somebody who has a long history of shilling for the most crooked of arms vendors from Russia whilst running down Indian organizations. Facts dont matter.

srin · Post by **srin** » 18 May 2015 16:43

Phillip,
Guess what the Soviet military budget was in late 1980s ? Around $300 billion. That was 15% of their GDP.
Guess what the Chinese spend now ? Around $130 billion
Guess what we spend on our military - total ? $48 billion as of this year. Of this, what is the DRDO budget ? $1.5 billion, around 9000 crores.

And you criticize DRDO for the ills. Given the budget, they have done really wonderfully in getting us the strategic missiles, a really good combat aircraft and all sorts of radars.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 18 May 2015 17:43

The big issue is:-

Whether DRDO record is patchy due to incompetent morons in DRDO or primarily due to the fact that the budget of DRDO is 5 times less than what is required as Politicos-Babus-Services prefer foreign maal served with WWW?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 18 May 2015 17:55

Guys,I have said that the performance has been patchy,always given kudos to our space and missile teams and asked why other programmes have not succeeded. Yes,there are a bunch of crooks who no doubt have fed off the poor Indian taxpayer,parasites who still do.Every govt. thus far,allegedly makes money out of arms deals and their are worms in all stakeholder entities. Yes,we spend a paltry sum compared to other nations,but rot exists within the DRDO in ample measure,one cannot ignore it.The Tatra scam is just one instance.There are entrenched entities within the country in league with arms fixers representing firang OEMs from both east and west with strong political leverage.But it is a fact that smaller firms ,not the giants like the blue-chip cos mentioned,who are very capable,and trying to supply key components are often fed up with the attitude of the DRDO. I know of some cases but for obvious reasons cannot mention them. So what do these cos do? Export the product,which sometimes returns to India in a firang system at extra cost! I also know of one case where an upright offr. was penalised (thanks to the DRDO) for saying that the Trishul SAM was a disaster.He was proved right and we had to import an alternative.

The second problem,highlighted in the above post,is the tardy upward mobility of young scientists,when the retiring bosses keep getting extensions aplenty,the system looking after its "club members". Cushy post-retirement berths are allotted for the members ,who continue to enjoy the "perks" of office.These young scientists then get frustrated,leave and the DRDO/DPSUs are woefully also short of skilled manpower.Just one example ,where HAL a couple of years ago,due to a manpower shortage,tasked the brilliant IJT team to also handle HAL's workshare of the FGFA JV! Such splendid progress on both fronts!

Despite our smaller defence budget compared with other nations,the DRDO and DPSUs have been amply funded if you look at the cost overruns for prestigious projects like the LCA.etc. This govt. has finally broken the mould by awarding the LTA to the Tata-Airbus combine. The dam will burst if these cos. deliver the goods.The arty requirement has also been split between the OFB for the desi improved Bofors and pvt. players. Competition is good. However,it is only the major blue-chip players who will benefit most,as they have the contacts and the clout with the executive and babudom. One however hopes that we will not end up with our version of the US Mil-Ind-Complex monster.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 May 2015 20:05

Everybody, get off this useless discussion and get back to discussions of missiles ONLY.

member_28782 · Post by **member_28782** » 18 May 2015 20:06

Philip wrote:Guys,I have said that the performance has been patchy,always given kudos to our space and missile teams and asked why other programmes have not succeeded. Yes,there are a bunch of crooks who no doubt have fed off the poor Indian taxpayer,parasites who still do.Every govt. thus far,allegedly makes money out of arms deals and their are worms in all stakeholder entities. Yes,we spend a paltry sum compared to other nations,but rot exists within the DRDO in ample measure,one cannot ignore it.The Tatra scam is just one instance.There are entrenched entities within the country in league with arms fixers representing firang OEMs from both east and west with strong political leverage.But it is a fact that smaller firms ,not the giants like the blue-chip cos mentioned,who are very capable,and trying to supply key components are often fed up with the attitude of the DRDO. I know of some cases but for obvious reasons cannot mention them. So what do these cos do? Export the product,which sometimes returns to India in a firang system at extra cost! I also know of one case where an upright offr. was penalised (thanks to the DRDO) for saying that the Trishul SAM was a disaster.He was proved right and we had to import an alternative.

The second problem,highlighted in the above post,is the tardy upward mobility of young scientists,when the retiring bosses keep getting extensions aplenty,the system looking after its "club members". Cushy post-retirement berths are allotted for the members ,who continue to enjoy the "perks" of office.These young scientists then get frustrated,leave and the DRDO/DPSUs are woefully also short of skilled manpower.Just one example ,where HAL a couple of years ago,due to a manpower shortage,tasked the brilliant IJT team to also handle HAL's workshare of the FGFA JV! Such splendid progress on both fronts!

Despite our smaller defence budget compared with other nations,the DRDO and DPSUs have been amply funded if you look at the cost overruns for prestigious projects like the LCA.etc. This govt. has finally broken the mould by awarding the LTA to the Tata-Airbus combine. The dam will burst if these cos. deliver the goods.The arty requirement has also been split between the OFB for the desi improved Bofors and pvt. players. Competition is good. However,it is only the major blue-chip players who will benefit most,as they have the contacts and the clout with the executive and babudom. One however hopes that we will not end up with our version of the US Mil-Ind-Complex monster.

Few counters:
1. Tatra scam is ~~BHEL~~ BEML and not DRDO. While there may some small scams going on in DRDO, the potential for scams in R&D dept. is much less than a manufacturing dept.
2. The problem with SMEs is know one that even the RM mentioned recently. DRDO works with SMEs to co-dev certain components/subsystems but when it comes to production the SMEs have to bid and be L1 to win contracts. Systemic problem
3. Manpower shortage is definitely a problem but besides extensions for seniors the problem is also the numbers that DRDO is allowed to recruit which has only recently been enhanced by new govt.

My dad is retd ISRO scientists (30+ yrs) so I am happy with the praise that ISRO is getting now but people tend to forget all the failed SLV and ASLV launches that lead to the PSLV and GSLV and the missile program.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 19 May 2015 10:06

+1 to Indranilroy

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 May 2015 17:29

If true,would this tech land up with the Pakis?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 62505.html
North Korea claims major nuclear weapons breakthrough with 'miniaturised' warheads that can be delivered by missile

the US’s top commander on the Korean peninsula, General Curtis Scaparrotti, warned last year that he believed North Korea to have “the capability to miniaturise a device and the technology to deliver what they say they have”.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 May 2015 18:39

Philip, What a fatuous question!

NoKo is source of TSP weapons. Even at Chagai test in 1998 had NoKo Pu design. Recall the missing Pu sample?
So off-course whatever NoKo has will if not already with TSP.

We had a whole thread monitoring the NoKo testing to see the level of capability.

----
All I would like senior members to be like seniors and not newbies.
So reflect before you post.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 May 2015 07:46

Astra Tested Successfully - Y.Mallikarjun, The Hindu

After being postponed twice, two indigenously developed beyond visual range air-to-air missiles, Astra, were successfully launched from Su-30 MKI fighter jet in two developmental trials conducted at the Integrated Test Range, Chandipur, Odisha on Wednesday.

In the first trial, the supersonic missile was released when the fighter jet was performing a “very high-g manoeuvre.” In the second trial, the g manoeuvre was higher than in the first exercise.

A Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) missile technologist told The Hindu that extreme conditions were simulated for the missile’s launch in both trials when it was released at very low and very high altitudes. DRDO scientists plan to conduct another trial on Thursday to prove the long range capability of the missile.

With Wednesday’s tests, seven developmental trials were conducted and the missile is expected to be inducted by 2016 after a few more tests. The 3.8-metre tall Astra is a radar homing missile and one of the smallest weapon systems developed by the DRDO..

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 21 May 2015 09:38

Excellent news, Sridhar ji.

vina · Post by **vina** » 21 May 2015 09:57

Ah.. But is the Astra "indigenous"? I hear that the seeker is imported. Is the every raw material in the propellant mined in India and made here ? Maybe not.

Astra is not 100% indigenous only

. Why buy Astra. Buy the R77 instead!

Buy Mica instead . Buy Amraam instead

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 May 2015 11:08

Posted earlier.Adm.Suresh Mehta's comments/words to the same effect on the IN and Indian warship design and prod. "If the IAF had the design capability of the IN,the Rafale deal would not have been necessary". What he meant that the IN was able to integrate firang wares,systems,weaponry,etc,into a truly Indian indigenous warship design ,from both east and west,the envy of other nations.

Tejas and Arjun are two chief examples where firang components for key areas like engines,etc.,are imported and integrated into an india design. The warship indigenous component is about "50%".because we still haven't been able to manufacture most of the power plants,weaponry,sensors,etc. required.High strength special steels for the hull,etc. have been finally mastered by SAIL.

Today's news is that a major defence deal ,JV with Israel for a med. range missile for the IA is to be finalized,9,000 cr.,with a 50km range not 70km as with the IN's Barak-8.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 May 2015 18:06

indranilroy wrote:Everybody, get off this useless discussion and get back to discussions of missiles ONLY.

Vina lets get back to regular programming.

Philip, This thread is about INDIAN missiles.....

If you bring one more Russki missile news here kapiche!

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 21 May 2015 18:14

Most of the BVRAAMs launch videos I have seen, they are usually dropped below and then then fired. Whereas Astra gets fired right under the wing. It could toast the wing of an aircraft if it catches the exhaust fire. Any ideas garus?

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 21 May 2015 22:28

Israel will partner India to develop missile system

:
:
Defence ministry sources on Wednesday said the contract negotiation committee had now virtually sealed the joint development of a medium-range surface-to-air missile system (MR-SAM) for the Indian Army through collaboration between DRDO and Israeli Aerospace Industries.

Defence PSU Bharat Dynamics, in turn, will undertake bulk production of the systems in India. Incidentally, Israel is among the top defence suppliers to India, having already inked deals and projects worth around $10 billion over the last 15 years, which range from spy and armed drones to sophisticated missile and radar systems.

During his visit to India in February, Israeli defence minister Moshe Ya'alon had even offered the advanced Iron Dome interceptor, which was used to intercept the flurry of rockets fired into his country last year, for PM Narendra Modi's Make in India policy.

As for the initial Army order for one regiment of the MR-SAM systems, with their multi-function surveillance and threat tracking radars as well as weapon control systems, it would cost over Rs 9,000 crore. "More orders might later follow since the Army's air defence capabilities are relatively weak," said a source.

The DRDO-IAI-BDL model is identical to the SAM projects already under way for the Navy and IAF, which are together worth around Rs 13,000 crore. While the interception range of IAF-Navy versions is 70-km, the one for the Army will be 50-km.

Such SAM systems are basically "area defence weapons" that locate, track and destroy incoming hostile aircraft, drones, missiles and helicopters. They are the advanced versions of the Israeli Barak-I "point anti-missile defence systems" with a 9-km range, which were fitted on 14 Indian warships several years ago.

The new SAM projects, however, have been plagued by huge delays. The one to arm Indian warships at a cost of Rs 2,606 crore, which was approved in December 2005, was to be completed by May 2011.

But it's only now that an Indian warship — the 6,800-tonne destroyer INS Kolkata commissioned by Modi in August last year — is gearing up for the actual test-firing of the SAM system for the first time. After its HOT (home on target) tests were completed in Israel last year, the SAM has also been fitted in another destroyer INS Kochi, which will be commissioned later this year.

The story has been similar for the Rs 10,076 crore SAM project sanctioned in February 2009 for IAF to plug the existing gaps in air defence coverage of the country. The project completion date has been pushed back to August 2016. It was this long delay, in fact, which had led India to put negotiations for the Army version on the backburner till now.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 22 May 2015 01:17

What happened to multiple June tests in Rajasthan and winter trials in Sikkim

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 22 May 2015 01:32

skekatpuray wrote:Most of the BVRAAMs launch videos I have seen, they are usually dropped below and then then fired. Whereas Astra gets fired right under the wing. It could toast the wing of an aircraft if it catches the exhaust fire. Any ideas garus?

AGM-88 HARM

Aim-120 AMRAAM

Aim-7 Sparrow

Meteor MBDA

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 May 2015 15:44

Apparently the last Astra test was for a long range, loft trajectory @ climb to 25km test! Previous trials were under high G maneuvers. T

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyd ... 231411.ece

The control and guidance and all other sub-systems were validated at very high altitude and range as the missile zoomed at a speed of 4.5 Mach.

In yet another achievement in two days, the indigenously developed air-to-air supersonic Astra, was successfully fired from Su-30 MKI fighter aircraft and tested for a very long range at the Integrated Test Range, in Odisha on Thursday.

On Wednesday, two Astra missiles were launched when the fighter aircraft was performing high-g manoeuvres in two separate trials.

According to a Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) missile technologist associated with Astra project, the anti-aircraft missile on Thursday climbed to an altitude of 25 k.m. and went to a very long range after it was released at an altitude of 25 k.m. He said that the weapon system was evaluated under extreme conditions.

The control and guidance and all other sub-systems were validated at very high altitude and range as the missile zoomed at a speed of 4.5 Mach in the eighth developmental trial held on Thursday. After a few more pre-induction trials, the supersonic missile is expected to be inducted by next year.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 26 May 2015 19:10

I wonder what the "very long range" was ?

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 26 May 2015 19:28

Sanjay wrote:I wonder what the "very long range" was ?

80-100Km is reported maximum range of Astra Mk-1

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 26 May 2015 19:49

I thought that those were the Astra-2 specs.

Sanjay · Post by **Sanjay** » 26 May 2015 20:39

Astra Mk.1 has already shown a range of 65km:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 134417.ece

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 May 2015 20:53

looking at the quiet support from IAF, I would imagine a lot of our massive stock of aa12 is not in great shape.

another product niche where the russian account will be closed.

unlike the amraam which has gone through atleast 4 major upgrades, the aa12 seems to have stood still since mid 90s.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 26 May 2015 21:24

Singha wrote:unlike the amraam which has gone through atleast 4 major upgrades, the aa12 seems to have stood still since mid 90s.

http://eng.ktrv.ru/production_eng/323/503/567/

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 May 2015 21:33

Ankar wrote:
Sanjay wrote:I wonder what the "very long range" was ?
80-100Km is reported maximum range of Astra Mk-1

Depends on the altitude/chase mode.

The missile has been designed to be capable of engaging high-speed targets at short range (up to 20 km in tail chase mode) and long range (up to 80 km in head-on chase mode). At sea level it has a range of up to 20 km but could have a range of 44 km from an altitude of 8,000 m and 80 km if launched from an altitude of 15,000 m.

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

Now - if that other report is correct, and the missile went upto 25 km, then its max range in that profile could have been more than 80 km, we are talking of more than a 65% increase in altitude. Makes me wonder whether DRDO tested this profile under IAF directive or if its a misreport.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 May 2015 21:35

Singha wrote:looking at the quiet support from IAF, I would imagine a lot of our massive stock of aa12 is not in great shape.

another product niche where the russian account will be closed.

Sooner the better. We need the Russians/French/everyone out of such lucrative but high impact deals. Product support is lackadaisical and we have to husband our stocks.
Once DRDL/RCI's new gen munitions pass trials (glide bombs/MPGM/Helina), we should be able to walk away from these price gougers in those sectors too.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 May 2015 22:25

KaranM. So what targets are expected at 25 km (~75000 ft.) altitude? And needs the Astra to speed up to Mach 4.5?

Most likely some high altitude recee plane or drone.

Not both tests last week are against simulated targets.

How does that work? Program the Astra to a target point?

Wish the poster post full text articles of test flights so all data is there for understanding.

srin · Post by **srin** » 26 May 2015 22:28

Ramana-sir, some BVRAAMs like Phoenix used the lofted profile for the long range. The decreased air resistance makes it efficient for cruising and then they drop on to the target with high KE.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 May 2015 22:30

Should call the Astra the Shrike!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 26 May 2015 23:57

ramana wrote:KaranM. So what targets are expected at 25 km (~75000 ft.) altitude? And needs the Astra to speed up to Mach 4.5?

Most likely some high altitude recee plane or drone.

Not both tests last week are against simulated targets.

How does that work? Program the Astra to a target point?

Wish the poster post full text articles of test flights so all data is there for understanding.

Srin explained it well, most MRAAMs have a lofted trajectory for maximum range - but to my eyes 25km seems too high. We will know later. 4.5M iirc is the design speed for the missile.

Simulated targets are exactly as you said, feed the missile specific data and see telemetry to check whether it meets target objectives. SDRE way of saving cost and getting job done. IMHO, they will pull out the Lakshyas and Mirachs for the final round.

2015
May 21
The missile was probably launched from high altitude and climbed to 25-km altitude; it reached a speed of 4.5M.
May 20
In the first trial, the missile was released when the fighter jet was performing a “very high-g manoeuver” at a low altitude. In the second trial, the same was done at very high altitude.
March 19 and 18
March 19 test at ITR was the first against a real, as opposed to a simulated, target. Lakshya, successful. 18th was simulated
Project Director Dr. S Venugopal “the fourth and fifth Air Launch of ASTRA was once again perfect in all respect and engaged the target with precision. More tests will follow to prove its repeatability.”
On 18th the test demonstrated the missile's ability to maneuver at 27G at 1-km altitude, a SQR.

2014

IAF on June 20, 2014 successfully tested the ASTRA BVR air-to-air Missiles from a Su-30MKI at the naval range off Goa. The missile was released from an altitude of 6.8 km and successfully guided by the aircraft's weapon and radar system to an interception of the electronically simulated target at long range (65km).
June 9 - test for A2A to prove repeatability
May 14- first A2A test

2013
By June 2013 DRDO had 3 successful ground trials and a captive flight trial on Su-30
From Nov-Dec, the missile was integrated with Su-30 avionics by HAL and flight trials continued. Penultimate phase (which we are in now were for actual firing trials)

2012
Redesigned missile successfully tested from ground several times (at least twice) including against Lakshya PTA
Missile redesigned to overcome issues which were there in original 2003 design. Current design is completely different in terms of aerodynamics.

Earlier trials were from 2003-2011. Not sure whether the 2011 designs (need to check up) were of the new design.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 May 2015 01:12

So there were 7 flight tests in the air starting from 14 May 2014.
If we plot on probability paper we can project its probability and reliability numbers.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 May 2015 01:41

Well these are test articles. Each missile handbuilt, not off of a regular line. So in that sense the reliability will be high.
However, even series build missiles should be ok based on IGMP experience carried over.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 May 2015 07:12

the SD-10 is claimed to have a ceiling of 20km.

a climb to 25km would permit a lot of KE buildup when diving in unpowered phase to the target many kms below.