Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 23 Nov 2014 21:18

Sorry for butting in ramana saar but I think Banshee uses the same thing which our Lakshya uses for providing a variable RCS to the missile/radar i.e. a Luneberg Lens.

Banshee Aerial Target System PDF file

Typical payloads

Up to 16 smoke tracking flares
Up to 16 Infra-red tracking flares
(Combinations of flares may be carried and activated
as required).
Hot nose, black-body IR source.
IR and chaff decoy dispensing pods
IFF transponder capable of modes A and C
Two of 7.5” and/or 2 off 5.5” Luneberg Lenses
Frequency specific, active radar augmenters
Radar altimeter, sea-skimming module
Acoustic and Doppler radar MDI
(These payloads may be mixed and most carried
simultaneously)

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 23 Nov 2014 22:51

Is the para barrel smaller or the Luneberg lens smaller?

From Wiki on Luneburg lens

Radar reflector[edit]

A radar reflector can be made from a Luneburg lens by metallizing parts of its surface. Radiation from a distant radar transmitter is focussed onto the underside of the metallization on the opposite side of the lens; here it is reflected, and focussed back onto the radar station. A difficulty with this scheme is that metallized regions block the entry or exit of radiation on that part of the lens, but the non-metallized regions result in a blind-spot on the opposite side.

So its a way of target illumination for the weapon to home on.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 24 Nov 2014 00:51

Akash being command guided means the data link could be switched with a different radar say an airborne one? like in the mountains where blocked line of sight issues occur

And if Rajendra can track targets at 30m altitude with accuracy, how far is it from GMTI capability?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 Nov 2014 02:18

what is the best missile out there with us to bust dams?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 24 Nov 2014 02:23

^^^ Let me refine that question (since I am curious too):

What is the warhead + Missile combo to bust a large dam?

My guess would be it would need a nuke, unless there is some structurally weak place where a small crack can bring down the whole thing.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 24 Nov 2014 03:28

GBU-28/GBU-37.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 24 Nov 2014 03:32

Cybaru wrote:GBU-28/GBU-37.

Or if you are the type that likes "making sure". The GBU-57

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 24 Nov 2014 18:50

ramana wrote:Is the para barrel smaller or the Luneberg lens smaller?

From Wiki on Luneburg lens

Radar reflector[edit]

A radar reflector can be made from a Luneburg lens by metallizing parts of its surface. Radiation from a distant radar transmitter is focussed onto the underside of the metallization on the opposite side of the lens; here it is reflected, and focussed back onto the radar station. A difficulty with this scheme is that metallized regions block the entry or exit of radiation on that part of the lens, but the non-metallized regions result in a blind-spot on the opposite side.
So its a way of target illumination for the weapon to home on.

In terms of dimension I would say Luneburg lens, in terms of RCS I have no idea.

DRDO developed Luneburg Lens

Luneberg lens reflector is a device used to enhance the RCS of small dummy aerial targets towed to a pilotless target aircraft during testing of aerial weapons. It is a spherical dielectric lens having two foci, one located on the surface of the lens and the other at infinity. This two-segment device has been constructed from low density polystyrene foam shells filled with polystyrene granules, a matching section, metal reflector and radome cover. The device gives large back-scattered reflection of micowave energy over a wide viewing angle.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Nov 2014 09:24

http://www.spsmai.com/exclusive/?id=448 ... User-Tests

Akash Blasts Through Training User Tests
By SP's Special Correspondent

November 24, 2014: The indigenous Akash SAM system, already in service with the Indian Air Force and Indian Army, has just completed a high-tempo series of training user trials with a high degree of success and satisfaction to the end user. Over five days this week, nine tests were conducted, testing all parameters of the missile, including low level and high level engagement of British-built Meggitt Defence Systems Banshee Jet 80 target drones. In a major confidence-booster, the in-service weapon system has acquitted itself with flying colours, paving the way for the next lot of improvements to the system as part of an Akash Mk.2 extended range profile, as well as exports to other countries that have evinced interest in the system. The tests include a simultaneous launch of two Akash missiles against aerial targets, destroying them respectively at ranges of 11 km and 24 km, just shy of ceiling range. The training user trials were a high-pressure exercise conducted at the Integrated Test Range involving nine missiles randomly selected from the the production line at one of the three production agencies. The IAF currently has eight Akash squadrons, and is interested in acquiring more. The Army operates two Akash regiments and has already expressed a requirement of more such systems with minor modifications.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Nov 2014 09:36

^^ I read in a news report one of the target was engaged at slant range of 24 Km and height of 5-6 km so that would be its max range of 30 km in latest test

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 27 Nov 2014 09:54

any credibility to the story on the BR front page about akash failing 2 of 9?

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 543332.ece

saumitra_j · Post by **saumitra_j** » 27 Nov 2014 11:32

^ the farticle is by Hemant Kumar Rout...a known dork do take it with a bagful of salt. As usual, unamed reliable sources.. ..the tone of the artcle and the usual bull$hit us a give away that it is not to be believed...ddm at its usual...

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 27 Nov 2014 13:01

Thakur_B wrote:From Dr Saraswat's presentation
- Astra can do 60g maneuvers.
- If Brahmos is flown at an altitude of 18 Kms without the low altitude maneuvering, the range can be as high as 600 Km (and yes, they are going to do an 'exercise' in that aspect).
- There are two production lines for Brahmos, one in Kerala and other in Hyderabad.
- AAD interceptor has 15 to 35g maneuver capability, and hence can take subsonic cruise missiles out with ease. System analysis shows that Brahmos level threats can be apprehended using AAD in cruise missile defence.
- CMD will require IIR seekers and automatic target recognition capabilities.
- The range of LFRJ cruise missile will be 600-1000 km, the problem lies with high density fuel.

which presentation?

KBDagha · Post by **KBDagha** » 27 Nov 2014 13:57

IIT Bombay presentation

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Nov 2014 14:16

xave wrote:any credibility to the story on the BR front page about akash failing 2 of 9?

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 543332.ece

Even if it is true - there is no missile in the world with a 100% hit probability. An excess of 70% under trial conditions is very good.

nikhil_p · Post by **nikhil_p** » 27 Nov 2014 17:53

shiv wrote:ote:
any credibility to the story on the BR front page about akash failing 2 of 9?

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 543332.ece

I did comment on this, but I guess it was moderated by whoever moderates it there. What I find funny is that he says the Army didnt accept it. The order was placed in 2011 (IIRC) and the first preference is to fulfil the AF orders to replace the aging systems and protect forward and key bases. The Army however does have other SAM systems which for the time being are able to provide cover.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 27 Nov 2014 19:54

shiv wrote:
xave wrote:any credibility to the story on the BR front page about akash failing 2 of 9?

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/ ... 543332.ece
Even if it is true - there is no missile in the world with a 100% hit probability. An excess of 70% under trial conditions is very good.

Depends upon the missile and the complexity of the mission. I am sure when tactical air to air missiles are tested they get kills damn close to 90+% in most moderate scenarios..I think hundreds or thousands have been fired. But yes, once you put them up against representative ECCM, jamming etc they would dip down as far as success is concerned. The Patriot 2, and 3 (Improved Patriot missile and the PAC 3 H2K) in the OIF was 8 of 9 confirmed kills and 1 probable kill. At a more strategic level where hard numbers are reported, AEGIS for example had a string of 10 successful tests around 2012, but the overall score is 30 of 36 (83%)..THAAD has 11 of 15 (73%)..The more complex and challenging kills such as those targeting IRBM's or LRBM would obviously have a much lower success rate given that a lot of technical kinks need to be sorted out.

For Akash, 9 for 9 is a very very good start regardless and goes to show that the missile is mature and on its way.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 28 Nov 2014 04:08

Rout is being fed masala to scupper the Akash program since its success means the end of all the faltu overpriced JVs foisted on us. The twit is going along to become the next great name. I hope Doval and co monitor such efforts and nip them in the bud.

srai · Post by **srai** » 28 Nov 2014 05:07

^^^
That article is full of errors.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Nov 2014 05:29

?????

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 28 Nov 2014 05:57

^^ Thats Lockheed's ADAM laser demo from 2012

member_28840 · Post by **member_28840** » 28 Nov 2014 08:53

saumitra_j wrote:^ the farticle is by Hemant Kumar Rout...a known dork do take it with a bagful of salt. As usual, unamed reliable sources.. ..the tone of the artcle and the usual bull$hit us a give away that it is not to be believed...ddm at its usual...

Karan M wrote:Rout is being fed masala to scupper the Akash program since its success means the end of all the faltu overpriced JVs foisted on us. The twit is going along to become the next great name. I hope Doval and co monitor such efforts and nip them in the bud.

I should pay more attention to who the author of the article is next time...

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 28 Nov 2014 09:24

SFC test firing Agni-IV on Tuesday - 2nd December.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 30 Nov 2014 22:22

^

The link to the upcoming Agni-4 test on the BR home page, from the Indian Express, contains 6 or 7 comments. And guess what, they ALL denounce it! At least 4 of the comments are from Indians, or people with Indian names. The other two 'sound' like they are American or Chinese( or both?).

They all say it is destablising for Asian and/or global security, or that India is a poor country so it should not be diverting resources to missile testing and development; or that China is ahead, so there's no point in developing the missile, rather India should give the money to its poor people. One remarks on DRDO's supposed ineptitude, besides making the customary remark about poverty.

Incredible, all this in an Indian newspaper! Not a single comment supporting, lauding the imminent launch.

What the hell is wrong with people? I have tried responding, let's see if they print my remarks. I thought all these jibes and arguments were discredited, long ago. And they are positively rehashed, what gives?

member_20317 · Post by **member_20317** » 30 Nov 2014 22:31

You can form your judgement form the approval ratings at the time of the Shakti tests. There is a real India and then there is one that gets shown to the world. MSM can be safely ignored except for the limited purpose of cussing them. Most likely they are moderating the discussion.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 30 Nov 2014 22:59

Many news sites use Diqus software for capturing readers comments, the moderation probably is 'outsourced', maybe using servers outside desh, and those are bogus handles.

whoever is responsible for cyberspace should draw out specs that mandate such software is neutrally managed or even the 'China way', zero dissent

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 30 Nov 2014 23:51

Even i tried , no use . This guys have vested interest. Can we high light their ill efforts ??

which online newspapers using Disqus ?? IE , living media group .

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 01 Dec 2014 17:51

India to conduct final dev test-firing of 4,000-km range Agni IV ballistic missile tomorrow. Will pave way for entry into nuke command. @Livefist

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 01 Dec 2014 21:40

Shaun wrote:which online newspapers using Disqus ?? IE , living media group .

ibnlive.in.com (cnn), hindustantimes.com, dnaindia.com, newindianexpress.com

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 01 Dec 2014 23:12

vasu raya wrote:
Shaun wrote:which online newspapers using Disqus ?? IE , living media group .
ibnlive.in.com (cnn), hindustantimes.com, dnaindia.com, newindianexpress.com

Also, niticentral, newslaundry.com, firstpost, open magazine...

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 02 Dec 2014 10:19

Anantha Krishnan M
‏@writetake
#BreakingNews DRDO spokesperson confirms successful #AgniIV launch by SFC completing the induction process.@Oneindia

#‎BreakingNews‬ ‪#‎A4launch‬ Sources confirm that the ‪#‎AgniIV‬ missile took off from a mobile launcher exactly at 10:17 am. @Oneindia

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 02 Dec 2014 10:27

The launch of #AgniIV, #India 's strategic missile off the #Odisha coast this morning was a success @Al Hindu

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... epage=true

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 02 Dec 2014 10:48

Another successful launch. This is now being routine, which is truly wonderful!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 02 Dec 2014 13:08

India test fires 4000km range Agni 4 missile

The most accurate Ring Laser Gyro based Inertial Navigation System (RINS) and supported by redundant, highly reliable Micro Navigation System (MINGS), ensures high accuracy.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 02 Dec 2014 14:10

sweet news, another potent killer joins the operational line-up. Big congrats to DRDO for gradually improving on its potent deliverables

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 02 Dec 2014 14:33

Two things - it was launched from a Mobile launcher and the SFC and not DRDO was responsible for the launch in essence starting the process of induction.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 02 Dec 2014 14:56

Great news!

Btw, are there any plans to canisterise A-4 once the tech has been proven with A-5?

member_28911 · Post by **member_28911** » 02 Dec 2014 15:01

MoD says the re-entry heat shield of AgniIV is capable of withstanding high temperatures up to 4000 degree centigrade.

MoD says #AgniIV is equipped with state of the art avionics, 5th generation On Board Computer and distributed architecture.

MoD says the missile has the latest features to correct and guide itself for inflight disturbances.

via @Anantha Krishnan M

RKumar · Post by **RKumar** » 02 Dec 2014 15:31

PratikDas wrote:
Anantha Krishnan M
‏@writetake
#BreakingNews DRDO spokesperson confirms successful #AgniIV launch by SFC completing the induction process.@Oneindia

I think it clears the path for the army/SFC to deploy Agni IV operationally.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 02 Dec 2014 18:53

Great news.Now for further momentum on A-5 and beyond,esp sub launched ICBMs.