India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 24 Jun 2015 03:27

Shukla's views: Filling in Mr Parrikar’s silence

Few tears will be shed, especially in the corridors of power, given his frequent gaffes, if Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar makes good his threat not to talk to the media for the next six months. Speaking less will give Mr Parrikar more time to think and to grasp fundamental defence issues that still elude him. Seven months after his appointment --- when he boasted that swift action was his specialty and that, as an Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) graduate, he would quickly master technology-related issues --- the new defence minister remains the new defence minister.

Alarmingly for someone who Prime Minister Narendra Modi has anointed a central pillar of the “Make in India” policy, Mr Parrikar has evinced neither the will nor the domain expertise needed to transform a military culture of buying foreign weaponry into one that promotes indigenous arms. This lack of leadership was painfully exposed this fortnight, when the army rejected the plan to develop its next tank in the country, instead inviting international companies to design a tank for India and supervising its construction. This would waste 30 years of Indian toil in designing and building the Arjun tank, an experience that must be harnessed into a more capable, next-generation tank. The Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO) is already working on such a tank --- dubbed the Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) --- which the defence ministry told parliament in 2010 would be ready by 2020. Yet the army has scuppered this project with Mr Parrikar watching helplessly from the side-lines.

The reason is obvious. Mr Parrikar and his bureaucrats prefer to buy than to build, since the latter involves active government leadership in coordinating the accumulation of diverse capabilities that go into a weapons platform. In building the Arjun tank, for example, the DRDO started with little expertise and with a technologically primitive domestic industry. As it painstakingly learned how to design a tank, many of the sub-systems --- such as the engine, transmission, fire control and night-vision systems --- remain imported. Meanwhile, Indian companies built others --- such as the armour, gun, ammunition and suspension system --- labouring alongside the DRDO to master these new technologies. An eco-system now exists for tank production in India, even though the government failed to support these so-called “Tier-1” and “Tier-2” vendors (systems and sub-system suppliers) morally, technologically and financially. Meanwhile, the army did all it could to scuttle the Arjun’s evolution instead of partnering the DRDO. After the Arjun outperformed the army’s Russian T-90 tank in comparative trials in Rajasthan in 2010, the generals adopted a new tack. Complaining that the 60-tonne Arjun was too heavy, they demanded an improved Arjun Mark II. Incredibly, the additional capabilities demanded added up to another 5 tonnes.

Mr Parrikar is failing the country and Mr Modi’s vision of “Make in India”, by standing by while the army scuttles the Arjun’s successor. He must exercise leadership by calling in the army, the DRDO and captains of industry, both public and private, and telling them flatly that the days of importing Russian armoured vehicles is over, and that a family of Indian tanks, infantry combat vehicles, reconnaissance vehicles and missile carriers will take their place. He must ensure they hammer out time-lines and financing and allocate responsibility for who will build what and by when. Such decisions require the exercise of subjective judgment by decision-makers, not the time-consuming, timid “out” of competitive tendering. Private industry must be given ownership of intellectual property (IP) they develop and, crucially, assured profits from mass-producing the components and sub-systems they develop. Liberal taxation regimes must be uniformly applied across industry. Untenable notions of “national security”, long misused by the public sector to keep out private sector competition, must be thrown overboard. Messrs Tata, Godrej and Mahindra, and chief executives of the other private firms, are as good Indians as the heads of public sector behemoths.

This meeting must be inaugurated with the ceremonial burning of the “Defence Procurement Procedure”, which could be retrospectively renamed “The Book of Reasons to Do Nothing.” To Mr Parrikar’s credit, he has declared that a lack of trust was impeding his ministry’s functioning. The procurement manual embodies mistrust, with its preoccupation on procedures rather than outcomes. With the DPP out of the way, a “Manual of Standards” must be introduced to specify uniform parts that could be used across various defence platforms. The Russian military uses the same bolt to fasten wheels onto trucks, tanks and helicopters; and the same air blower is fitted in ships, aircraft and land systems. This makes for cheaper volume manufacture and eases logistics and stocking.

This big-picture combat vehicle project must encompass futuristic versions of all the military’s current fleet, drawing in projects like the Future Infantry Combat Vehicle proposal that have meander along for years like lost and forlorn cows. Each type must be overseen by a project manager, with unreasonable delay penalised with sacking. Mr Parrikar himself --- being an IIT graduate! --- should chair six-monthly or annual review meetings to monitor progress.

The minister must evolve a similar big-picture approach to untangle the army’s biggest current problem --- the shortage of battlefield fire support, like artillery. Mr Parrikar’s currently solution is to expedite several individual procurements, each of a different gun type --- including a 155 millimetre towed gun; mounted gun system; ultra-light howitzer; and two self-propelled gun types. Even though several indigenous initiatives are under way --- including a successful Ordnance Factory Board gun; a DRDO-led project called the Advance Towed Artillery Gun (ATAG); and more than one Indian private sector solution, Mr Parrikar has failed to coordinate and synergise those by taking a step back and re-evaluating fire support de novo. Such a step could also factor in new equipment like the improved Pinaka rocket launcher; cruise missiles and the Prahar missile, all of which would enhance fire support to the frontline soldier. India could add another deadly dimension to its battlefield fire support by asking Washington for the A-10 Thunderbolt II (nicknamed Warthog) aircraft --- a proven battlefield beast that the United States Army custom-built to pour fire onto enemy frontlines, even in the face of retaliatory ground fire. With the US close to retiring its Warthogs, we could evaluate the benefits of acquiring this legendary aircraft at throwaway prices under the “Excess Defense Items” category.

Such a holistic approach would benefit not just the indigenising of systems, but also import, where it is inescapable. Our large military requirements make for enormous buyers’ leverage, which the ministry fritters away in piecemeal purchases. The navy needs sonars and torpedoes for multiple types of surface and submarine vessels, but all these are imported separately, linked with individual warship contracts. Instead, our requirement of hundred-odd sonars and several hundred torpedoes could easily be processed as separate contracts, with global vendors strong-armed into building in India for the global market.

This is equally true for air force procurements. If the ministry views the big picture of our fighter requirements, rather than as individual “procurement cases”, major indigenisation of sub-systems and systems could be obtained from bundling the development and production of the Tejas light fighter, Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft, Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, Multi-Role Transport Aircraft and a host of helicopters are that the military requires.

All this, of course, requires Mr Parrikar to take a step back and look afresh at the unimaginative way we do our procurement. Hopefully, his silence will now give him the time.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Jun 2015 03:43

Shukla is just acting out. Its 7 months and Parrikar is no wastrel. Give him time.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 24 Jun 2015 04:21

this sounds like a harangue but seriously...Indian english media journalists/reporters/commentators are truly a RETARDED class unto themselves.

Parrikar has been there for 7 months and this guy is wondering why he hasn't revolutionized the ways of Army procurement, which have been set in stone for probably generations and decades now. It's almost as if all of them live in a cocoon which progressively saps their logical reasoning skills.

srai · Post by **srai** » 24 Jun 2015 17:17

^^^

It seems the game plan was to quickly clear pending major purchases even if they were of compromised variety (citing costs). That would get the chiefs off their back. Now DM can focus on what it should be i.e. "Make in India" going forward. Let's see what policy emerges in a few months time. Will we see more orders of indigenous products like LCA Mk.1 or Arjun Mk.2 MBT?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 24 Jun 2015 18:13

The entire CNBC TV-18 series is here. All the clips are good and worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gs2cuL ... G_8liCe68h

Amazing how a business oriented channel can do a good job of defence reportage. This is a thousand times better than the rubbish the Aroors, Thapars and Pandits turn out.

There are some niggles in that the script they narrate doesn't match the products displayed, but that's ok.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 02 Jul 2015 00:13

http://www.oneindia.com/india/we-want-t ... 93678.html

"I am definitely in the process of hearing from small labs that a DRDO chief never visited in the last many, many years. I am devoting my Sundays now to spend time for such labs, which contributed to DRDO silently but never got any attention," says Dr Christopher.

"Performance is the key for DRDO now, whether it is a small lab with 50 people or a massive complex with 5000 people," he says.

"Delivery is the key. I don't want to stand on the top of the roof and make tall claims. I am prioritizing my goals," the DRDO chief said.

"We have too many varieties (missiles) and even the RM (Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar) has opined his views. We want several types of weapons. We are looking for standardizing our weapon programmes by clubbing them together. The idea is to make our weapons more efficient and make them in more numbers," says Dr Christopher, a native of Kumbakonam in Tamil Nadu.

"We have too many varieties (missiles) and even the RM (Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar) has opined his views. We want several types of weapons. We are looking for standardizing our weapon programmes by clubbing them together. The idea is to make our weapons more efficient and make them in more numbers," says Dr Christopher, a native of Kumbakonam in Tamil Nadu.

He said he has set his vision to make standard production lines for faster delivery of DRDO-developed weapon systems.

"Tejas Mk-1 is almost there and by March 2016 the FOC will be in. We have already begun the work on the next version. Tejas Mk-2 is the future," says the 60-year-old top radar scientist, who was appointed as the DRDO Chief recently.

srai · Post by **srai** » 02 Jul 2015 05:14

Karan M wrote:http://www.oneindia.com/india/we-want-t ... 93678.html

...

"We have too many varieties (missiles) and even the RM (Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar) has opined his views. We want several types of weapons. We are looking for standardizing our weapon programmes by clubbing them together. The idea is to make our weapons more efficient and make them in more numbers," says Dr Christopher, a native of Kumbakonam in Tamil Nadu.

...

That's a positive move--Standardization of enabling technologies and reuse of them across programs! Same missile body but with interchangeable seekers and warheads. Production also needs to be thought out during design phase itself.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 02 Jul 2015 05:30

One reason for all those 1000km increments was to keep US off with their MTCR back.
Hence incremental ranges were announced for AI, AII, AIII, AIV and AV!!! each Roman letter was 1k km multiplier.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 Jul 2015 05:40

Telling the Army to rewrite needs no time.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 03 Jul 2015 18:07

we often keep hearing about mission mode projects focusing mainly on deliverables, in addition there is a need for such mode wrt infrastructure, be it establishing hangers for all weather testing of aircraft or engine test beds, left to individual departments the progress may not always be consistent and the results reflect across the board, as missed deadlines. Mission mode helps to keep somebody in control of the timeline for infra setup.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 04 Jul 2015 22:35

http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2015/07/c ... f.html?m=1

Balaji takes over

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 04 Jul 2015 22:56

Karan M wrote:Guys - see the Make in India from CNBC, L&T program to begin with, the commentators script is sometimes "off" from the visuals which tell their own story. L&T is literally hand in glove with DRDO which is working with them on most critical programs (from inception). Take a look at the Arudhra radar design (huge rotating AESA).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMqgYjQTQVo
http://www.larsentoubro.com/heavy-engin ... -platform/

The radar is a LRDE design with L&T clearly involved (the array has L&T on it as it seems to be a dummy unit for testing the weight/form fit, and the overall rotating assembly was from L&T and the modules were from Astra to a LRDE design. The IAF may take upto 40+ of these units according to Astra. Very interesting series overall.

Off topic, but it seems L&T is using the photo I had taken & posted on BR of Revati on INS Dunagiri

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/media/294 ... 3D+CAR.JPG

http://www.larsentoubro.com/heavy-engin ... rne-radar/

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 09 Jul 2015 16:59

Dempos to build naval warships in Gujarat.

Eager to grab a share of the growing and highly capital-intensive shipbuilding industry, the Dempo Group will soon build naval warships at the Bhavnagar shipyard in Gujarat, managing director Shrinivas Dempo said. At a later date, the group also hopes to build the naval vessels in Goa.

Dempo told TOI that the company plans to widen its base in the shipbuilding and repair industry, one of the company's traditional mainstays. Besides commercial shipbuilding, the company is eying defence shipbuilding and inland waterway vessel projects.

India ranks second only behind Japan in Asia in terms of shipping tonnage.

"Today, the defence sector offers immense opportunities and we are looking at diversifying our portfolio. That is why we required the department of industrial policy and promotion (DIPP) licence," said Dempo.

Nearly 18 months after applying for the crucial licence, the DIPP gave the necessary approvals last week for the group's Modest Infrastructure Private Limited shipyard in Gujarat to manufacture the warships. The Bhavnagar shipyard is a subsidiary of the Dempo Group and is spread across 67,000 sq m. The Dempos acquired a 74% stake in the shipyard in 2012.

"We have been building auxiliary vessels like barges and fuel tankers for the Navy at the Bhavnagar shipyard, but now we want to expand our base and we are seriously targeting warship building," said V M Gaitonde, adviser, Dempo Shipbuilding and Engineering.

In the long run, the Dempo Group is thinking of manufacturing and building naval warships in Goa. "We are not ruling out building naval vessels in Goa in the future, but as of now, we have got a licence only for our shipyard in Bhavanagar," said Gaitonde.

The company is also keen to consolidate its ship repair facilities in Goa. "We want to stress on ship repairs. Yacht-repair is also an option, but we have to see what aspect of yacht repairs (we can undertake)," he added.

Given Prime Minister Narendra Modi's 'Make in India' call, the company foresees huge potential in the domestic shipbuilding industry—both commercial and defence. With this in mind, the company has also built another Greenfield shipyard in Gujarat.

"We are waiting for a turnaround in the economy. Till then, we will optimize our present assets. The Greenfield shipyard is currently on the backburner in terms of projects," said Gaitonde.

The Dempo Group is also in discussion with Goa Shipyard Limited (GSL) to manufacture deck machinery and other mechanical equipment for the ambitious Mine Counter Measure Vessel project that GSL has been tasked to build.

"We are yet to finalize plans and we are evaluating various proposals for the technology transfer," said Gaitonde.

Even as the company eyes the defence shipbuilding sector, it has no plans to move away from its forte—commercial shipbuilding. "We would like to stay engaged in commercial shipbuilding in an equal capacity. So, besides naval and Coast Guard vessels, special dredgers required for the inland waterways project are also possible," said Dempo.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 09 Jul 2015 19:36

X-post with my comments

‘Critical’ shortages of ammunition nearly made up, Army to PAC

The “critical” shortage of ammunition in the army, pointed out in the CAG report in May, has been overcome to a significant extent, Defence Ministry and army officials have told the Parliamentary Accounts Committee (PAC). “The criticality has been met by a two-pronged approach: asking Ordnance Factories Board (OFB) to produce well in time, and by progressing the import cases faster . It has been a high priority area for the Defence Minister (Manohar Parrikar),” said a senior military official.

The ministry and army officials deposed before the PAC on June 14. The PAC, which examines the CAG audit report after it is laid in Parliament, comprises 22 MPs and is currently headed by Congress MP Prof K V Thomas.

When the army does not have enough ammunition to sustain even 10 days of intense war, the situation is considered “critical”. CAG had warned that as of March 2013, half of the 170 types of ammunition with the army would not last 10 days of war.

{Wow. 85 types of ammo would not last for 10 days of war. And noted since March 2013. Thanks AKA for disarming the Indian Army. Also note the two track approach: OFB and imports.}

As per Defence Ministry’s 1979 policy (revised in 2010 with no substantial change), army is supposed to maintain its ammunition reserves for 40 days of intense war. This quantity is called War Wastage Reserve. After the Kargil War, the army came up with a policy to hold ammunition for at least 20 days of intense war, calling it ‘Bottom Line’ or ‘Minimum Acceptable Risk Level’.

CAG had also said 74 per cent — 125 out of the 170 types of ammunition — were below the Bottom Line holding. As per the report, OFB had failed to supply the army with the targeted quantity, leading to supply shortfalls in 73 per cent of ammunition types.

{If OFB had quality problems in 73 % of the product, what were they doing? How come even imports were stalled during the UPA? Note the types of ammo at the MAR level goes up from 85 to 125 types. Wonder how much it is for the WWR levels. IOW how many of the 175 types are shortfall to WWR levels? BTW if you read further OFB does have quality problems abut bigger problems is it never got procurement orders from Army, MoD and the Minister!!! The problem is being solved by increasing the procurement by a delta of Rs. 900 crores to bring it to critical levels (10 days)}

Sources said the quantity of ammunition procured by the army in 2014-15 is worth around Rs 900 crore more than the average quantity purchased in earlier years. Barring one item, the army is confident of overcoming “critical” level for all types of ammunition by 2016. In May, Parrikar had assured, “We will overcome the shortfall within one and half years. The gap has been filled 50 per cent and process of remaining 50 per cent is underway.”

{What this means is even OFB did not get the orders to make up the known shortfalls. If the procurement was increased by only Rs. 900 crores and this brings up the shortfalls to critical levels i.e. 10 day reserves, it means the whole mess was with in management by MoD and Army.

What this means is more money has to be spent by Army to bring stocks to MAR levels 20 days reserves and to double that to WWR levels.

If this is the story of Army what is the story for IAF and IN ammo stocks?

The joke is KV Thomas is head of PAC which is being informed of the passive oversight and possible willful neglect of the MoD by his own party leader AK Anthony !!!!

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 09 Jul 2015 20:26

^^^ Shouldn't this go to the achievement thread also.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 09 Jul 2015 20:33

Deejay ji pls to do the same

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 09 Jul 2015 20:47

NRao wrote:http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2015/07/c ... f.html?m=1

Balaji takes over

That's great news.

srai · Post by **srai** » 10 Jul 2015 01:44

Question: Anyone know how many ammunitions types other national armies use? According to recent reports, the IA uses 170 ammo types. Want to know if the IA could do standardization on weapons and ammo types for better inventory management?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jul 2015 01:53

IA likes to buy one special purpose gun every time.
They have so many 23mm types!

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Jul 2015 02:00

chaanakya wrote:
NRao wrote:http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2015/07/c ... f.html?m=1

Balaji takes over
That's great news.

And Mao sir as head of NFTC!
Double win for the good guys!

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 10 Jul 2015 20:38

ramana wrote:X-post with my comments

‘Critical’ shortages of ammunition nearly made up, Army to PAC

This report confirms that the ammo. shortfalls that we hear from time to time are more on the manufactured lines than being any perceived incapability of our OF's. This also confirms that the previous regime was hell bent on destroying India and we really had a close shave. For dhoti shivers think what would have been had the Italian mafia returned ???

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Jul 2015 20:47

Well that's not really the whole issue though. OFs have never managed to really meet the ammo shortfall (underproduction) and second, what they manufacture gets rejected.
We need to replace machinery, retrain the workers & implement a very strong QA/QC culture in the OF complex. The lal jhanda, unionized workforce issues are apparent though all parties have a finger in the mess.
http://saiindia.gov.in/english../home/O ... Chap_5.pdf
We found that as of 31 March 2013, 13 types of ammunition valuing
1,617.94 crore were lying rejected in 856 lots due to manufacturing defects,
of which 632 lots were for more than five years.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 10 Jul 2015 21:30

OF's have been made lazy and inefficient by design not by choice or coincidence. In all these decades how would have the "Indian" National Congress got party funds ??? I have been advocating for killing the unions to revive OF's for long time and by killing I mean in it's present form i.e. get rid of the lal jhanda.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 Jul 2015 22:32

Has DRDO or ADA gave reasons for terminating Sudarshan LGB? Just curious.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 10 Jul 2015 22:39

Overhauling OF and other PSUs is not that easy. They have very strong unions and can bring the production to standstill if they want to. And we know who got unions backs.

I know a friends father got into trouble because he also had some revolutionary idea about fixing obvious problems. 1000+ aggressive folks sitting in your house lawn for a week, where your kids play, is not a pretty memory for your family.

If my memory serves me right there was another incident where IN had to tow their unfinished ship from one of the shipyards to another due to union troubles.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 10 Jul 2015 22:44

ramana wrote:Has DRDO or ADA gave reasons for terminating Sudarshan LGB? Just curious.

Not an official word but...

@SJha1618
Sudarshan LGB accuracy was found to be inaccurate and it was proving expensive as well.It seems that such kits are readily available on the international market for $ 10K, so the IAF...

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Jul 2015 00:05

The Sudarshan LGB program was dropped in favour of a new LGB program at ADE which was proceeding ahead.
A DRDO TF has the details on the other program.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 11 Jul 2015 00:07

Sid wrote:Overhauling OF and other PSUs is not that easy. They have very strong unions and can bring the production to standstill if they want to. And we know who got unions backs.

I know a friends father got into trouble because he also had some revolutionary idea about fixing obvious problems. 1000+ aggressive folks sitting in your house lawn for a week, where your kids play, is not a pretty memory for your family.

If my memory serves me right there was another incident where IN had to tow their unfinished ship from one of the shipyards to another due to union troubles.

Sad but true.
Unionized labor in OFBs and defense establishment is one of the biggest issues for those who want to fix things.
Once private competition comes, these unions will wake up. Same thing happened in other PSUs which had to shape up and wake up.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Jul 2015 01:53

OFB Ammo page gives many types of ammo made by OFB.

http://www.ofbindia.gov.in/index.php?wh ... #subclass5

Types used by services in many more!!!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Jul 2015 09:53

hopefully these words will translate into good news
http://idrw.org/drdo-to-be-reorganised- ... more-68688

“sometimes even when we know we cannot meet the requirements, scientist don’t want to say no” as result you have projects which carry on for years with no results, he said.The DRDO has often been pulled by the government, services, Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) and even Parliament for failing to deliver. The Narendra Modi government and especially Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has decided to put an end to this and reorganise the DRDO.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 13 Jul 2015 10:59

On being asked how he rated the Indian Private sector and its contribution to defence research and development, Dr Christopher said that for Make in India to be successful in defence systems with the private sector taking the lead “there is need to hand hold” the private companies. Development of defence systems is time consuming and costly. “The government could consider a fund to help out the private sector,” he said.

As I've been saying for some time - DRDO will eventually become India's DARPA. Ballistic missiles, nuclear weapons, and maybe some sensitive projects will remain but I think they'll largely focus on short duration projects dealing with cutting edge technology. It will take about 5-10 years to get the ball rolling, but its really the beginning of the end for DPSUs including HAL. With a stable center and a clean up of procurement, privates have a big incentive to enter the sector now.

SSundar · Post by **SSundar** » 13 Jul 2015 11:22

DRDO should really become a licensing house, letting private companies license-manufacture their designs and inventions. Any improvements or innovations on the licensed technology should belong to the licensee. The license fees collected should be used to self-fund further DRDO research.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 13 Jul 2015 20:45

SSundar wrote:DRDO should really become a licensing house, letting private companies license-manufacture their designs and inventions. Any improvements or innovations on the licensed technology should belong to the licensee. The license fees collected should be used to self-fund further DRDO research.

They already are - but we need more private companies getting useful orders. For example the MDNL stall at Aero India will display titanium sponge that they have developed and will supply the tech to anyone who wants it. But MDNL will not be the supplier of titanium end products.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 13 Jul 2015 21:06

shiv wrote:They already are - but we need more private companies getting useful orders. For example the MDNL stall at Aero India will display titanium sponge that they have developed and will supply the tech to anyone who wants it. But MDNL will not be the supplier of titanium end products.

Are you sure about Midhani being developer of Titanium sponge ??? AFAIK DMRL is the one which developed it with the participation of Midhani and Midhani is entrusted with taking up production of strategically important materials only i.e. the one's which are required in small qty. and no private vendor will touch that because of the losses involved. Midhani does supply end products but only as per order and not on commercial scale like pvt. hence the ToT to KMML for commercial production of titanium sponge. I would be happy to be corrected if my understanding is wrong.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Jul 2015 22:08

Titanium sponge is DMRL, with KMM as the TOT partner, Midhani may be the industrial partner for processing the sponge.

http://www.kmml.com/php/showArticle.php?artid=12

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Jul 2015 22:39

I asked this a few times. Do we know how many re-melts are used for the Ti sponge? Reason is the purity of the metal goes up with re-melting. Aerospace grade is two re-melts. And in special case three re-melts.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Jul 2015 22:55

http://kmml.com/php/showNews.php?news_i ... 5&archive=

The Defence Metallurgical Research Lab (DMRL), Hyderabad , has developed the technology for producing the sponge after a 20year-long research.

India currently require 350 tonnes of Titanium sponge for its space programmes per year. Bio-medical, shipping and other sectors require 350 tonnes of titanium sponge for its space programmes per year. Biomedical, shipping and other sectors require another 400tonnes. All these sponge are made available through imports.

Currently, the , , , and are producing sponge. But these nations may not always be supplying sponge to , even though the country is ready to pay exorbitant cost for the strategic use. The sponge factory in Chavara will have the annual capacity for producing 500 tonnes.

The ISRO will buy back all the high purity Aerospace Grade Sponge, according to the agreement with the KMML. This will constitute 65 percent of the total production. The rest, Commercial Grade Sponge, can be sold directly by the KMML.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Jul 2015 22:58

The process in detail.

http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... production

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 13 Jul 2015 23:12

>>http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3299524/posts

SDB-2 costs around $115K. Its unaffordable for us if we want to procure in the thousands. Seeker tech will be quarantined as well.
We need to get our own low cost munitions up and running asap and funding has to be commensurate. No more trickle feed UPA style budgeting and capabilities only for extended trials. Hope Christopher saar realizes the potential of these programs and supports them.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 13 Jul 2015 23:47

Well Karan saar went full Phd on it

my attempt is more humbler.

The process chart as given on KMML site

and from the products section we come to know that they are making Ti sponge is grades

Grade 1: 99.70% Ti & BHN 85- 110, Size 2 to 25 mm
Grade 2: 99.60% Ti & BHN 110-150, Size 2 to 25 mm
Grade 3: 99.00% Ti & BHN >150, Size 2 to 25 mm
Ti Fines: 99.00% Ti & BHN >150, Size < 2 mm
Off Grade: BHN >150, Size 2 to 25 mm

As can be seen grade 1 is of the highest purity (ramana saar you tell us how many re melts are required to produce these different grades) and that's what is also commercially made all over the world, so further processing must be happening at the customer end which is possible since their customers are defence/aerospace giants themselves or in Midhani as Karan saar pointed before.

A DMRL presentation about Titanium Sponge Development in India, pg. 4 has the process chart.