India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 09 Sep 2015 16:57

Defence Ministry sets up task force to select Indian private companies for mega projects.

The defence ministry has set up a high powered task force to select Indian private companies for mega 'Make in India' defence manufacturing projects, accelerating its process of reforming complex procurement rules.

The task force, to be led by former DRDO Chief VK Aatre, has been mandated to set a selection criteria for 'strategic partners' private companies that will be given key defence projects like aircraft manufacturing, warship production and complex weapons systems under the Make in India initiative.

Aatre, who succeeded APJ Abdul Kalam as DRDO chief in 2000, told ET that the first meeting of the task force would take place within two weeks and details including a time line would be discussed.

"Things will be clearer after the first meeting of the task force takes place by the end of this month." Sources said the task force, which will include representatives from the industry, armed forces, defence ministry, banking sector, credit rating agency, specialized consultancy and public sector units, is expected to submit detailed criteria at the earliest for incorporation
into the new defence procurement policy being planned by the ministry.

The criteria to qualify as strategic partners is likely to be critical to the future of major private players venturing into defence manufacturing.

As per the proposals of the Dhirendra Singh panel on reforms, strategic partners will be identified for six major types of projects that encompass all major contracts.

Only one or two players are to be selected for the six types of projects, restricting total number of private companies for mega projects to about a dozen. These projects include aircraft, warships, armoured fighting vehicles complex missile systems, command and control networks and critical materials.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 10 Sep 2015 02:37

shiv wrote:The money needed is 57 crores. Piffling peanuts. Any miner/liquor baron minister from Karnataka could do that.

It's DK Shivakumar and the congis. There is bound to be an shady angle here.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 10 Sep 2015 03:17

chaanakya wrote:I hope other states jump in the fray and offer land , concessions etc.

The amount is peanuts for a company like HAL. This seems to be usual return dividend to center stuff.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Sep 2015 10:29

prashanth wrote:
chaanakya wrote:I hope other states jump in the fray and offer land , concessions etc.
Why? Has Karnataka shown any arrogance and shooed HAL away? The report itself says that Karnataka is keen to retain the project. Development need not be dog eat dog.

I would not know. Seems HAL had happy relations with GoKt. Companies are prone to demand concessions to improve their bottomline. If there are other states keen to bring the project to their states then GoKt have to pay the price for retaining it in Ktk. It is called competitive development in a federal structure. May be HAL is trying to exploit the keenness of GoKt. Who knows.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 10 Sep 2015 10:31

Karan M wrote:
chaanakya wrote:I hope other states jump in the fray and offer land , concessions etc.
The amount is peanuts for a company like HAL. This seems to be usual return dividend to center stuff.

HAL would not be bothered for this amount. So there is more to this than meets the eye.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 11 Sep 2015 13:12

Chanced upon these slides from UAV engines from VRDE

http://docslide.us/documents/drdo-vrde- ... -uavs.html

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 11 Sep 2015 14:37

noob kweshtoon. Whats the deal about KALI-5000?? What DRDO is doing with it? I checked BARC site but it doesn't look like weapons RnD, but more like a science RnD.

I came to know about it recently through some stupida$$ writeup from internet forwarded by someone which claimed that India recently tested this weapon in Siachen to melt some glacial ice causing avalanche and killing lots of pigs from the Pig Army. Even SJha tweeted about KALI.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 11 Sep 2015 20:24

the stupid a$$ write up is from BRF scenarios thread and was plagiarized and given wide circulation!!!

member_29172 · Post by **member_29172** » 12 Sep 2015 03:56

There is a mention of a 150W (?) laser weapon developed by DRDO in this thread or some other related to DRDO. Hopefully KALI-5000,a bigger and more potent version exists as well. Bonus points if it's boiling a few pigs around the Himalayan glaciers. The 150W laser weapon/guidance system definitely exists.

The existence KALI-5000 weapon has been rumored to be in existence/testing stage since atleast 2006-2007. That's when i first heard about a laser system being developed by DRDO IIRC. It'd definitely be a potent counter to incoming missile attacks and other similar defense roles for sure, if not for outright offensive roles.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 12 Sep 2015 04:03

The rumored KALI is not a laser weapon. It was supposed to be a microwave beam weapon. There has been no official news or confirmation about it AFAIK.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 12 Sep 2015 04:20

Would be great if they can train them on the inbound large caliber mortars and 155mm shells, maybe after integrating with the Rajendra WLR; its peacetime use other than industrial applications ofcourse

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2015 04:32

All "Laser weapons" so far (and probably for the foreseeable future) suffer from the problem that the beam has to stay focused on the target for several seconds to burn a hole and the power of the beam is reduced by atmospheric dust, fog etc. Also it has to be line of sight.

The best way forward may be to use laser to blind or fry sensitive items like eyes and electronics that are looking for EM radiation.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Sep 2015 05:38

KALI-5000: Does that mean it is a 5K watt weapon? Not good enough to knock down anything beyond a few meters and less than a few hours.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Sep 2015 05:45

can ground based beam weapons be used to target LEO satellites?

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 12 Sep 2015 06:25

Only if there are no clouds.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 12 Sep 2015 06:26

maybe if they fly it above cloud cover and if the laser corresponds to frequencies that are less attenuated in atmosphere, even fog

another scenario, Here is a video of a paki ship colliding with an IN ship, the laser can be focused just above the waterline on the ship's hull and if the frequency is in the invisible spectrum, they wouldn't even realize to make evasive maneuvers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e_abTfvaqc

a naval ship's captive crew might be good leverage for extraditing the fugitives on their soil, all in peacetime

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2015 06:42

vasu raya wrote:maybe if they fly it above cloud cover and if the laser corresponds to frequencies that are less attenuated in atmosphere, even fog

another scenario, Here is a video of a paki ship colliding with an IN ship, the laser can be focused just above the waterline on the ship's hull and if the frequency is in the invisible spectrum, they wouldn't even realize to make evasive maneuvers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e_abTfvaqc

a naval ship's captive crew might be good leverage for extraditing the fugitives on their soil, all in peacetime

From a high flying aircraft - definitely feasible. But India would need Boeing 747 class aircraft and the wherewithal to modify one appropriately for that.

But for a ship I am not sure that a laser will do much. First the ship will be rising and falling in the water and aiming at the waterline will mean that the hull sinks below the water every few seconds and the laser will then be simply shining at seawater. Aiming well above the waterline simply makes a hole above the waterline. In any case ships are designed to survive holes in the hull - especially small 4 inch holes which is about all you will get with a laser.

Incidentally it should be possible to calculate the amount of energy required to melt/evaporate a 4 inch disc of 2 inch thick metal. Transferring that much energy via a laser would take at least a minute of shining at the same spot while the metal gets hot and burns away. A Brahmos would blast a bigger hole in a few milliseconds

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 12 Sep 2015 06:50

Singha wrote:can ground based beam weapons be used to target LEO satellites?

No but HEL's have been suggested to be used from the air though. The YAL had a possible secondary role for such a mission but it was a COIL therefore bulky and of limited utility from practicality stand point. Once you go above the clouds lasers have larger tactical ranges for any mission..

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 12 Sep 2015 06:54

yes, there was news of a retired Air India 747 that was returned to US and was modded for exactly the same purpose, IAF wisened up after that

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 12 Sep 2015 07:26

vayu tuvan wrote:KALI-5000: Does that mean it is a 5K watt weapon? Not good enough to knock down anything beyond a few meters and less than a few hours.

The photograph of the complete assembly of KALI-5000 is shown in Fig.1. It has been used to generate 40 GW of REB pulse. This system has been used for generation of electron beam pulses in experiments for one of the classic application of coherent electromagnetic radiation in the microwave portion of the electromagnetic spectrum,which extends from 3-5 GHz.

via http://www.aame.in/2013/04/kali-towards ... ected.html

HAL could let the private sector take up ALH Assy, sales & post-sales services

The state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Limited [HAL] has issued a notice seeking 'Request For Information [RFI]' from the private sector to take up assembly, sales & servicing of the Mark III version of its Advanced Light Helicopter [ALH], 'Dhruv', under a Transfer of Technology [ToT] arrangement.

via http://www.aame.in/2015/09/hal-looks-to ... r-alh.html

LUH pilots could be wearing HMD. HAL could develop a future offensvie variant based on it

The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited [HAL] recently announced plans to select a suitable Helmet Mounted Display [HMD] system for the Light Utility Helicopter [LUH], that it is currently developing, in response to the Indian Air Force [IAF] & Indian Army's [IA] requirement for helicopters to replace its existing fleet of Cheetah & Chetak helicopters for Reconnaissance & Surveillance operations. For the pilot & co-pilot of the LUH, all flight-specific data would, therefore, be independently available in front of their eyes, at all times

via http://www.aame.in/2015/09/hal-develope ... armed.html

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 12 Sep 2015 08:04

These beam weapons can be tuned to such a high degree that instead of burning up circuits, only cause relays in a circuit to activate? relays work by electrical induction and have ratings

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 12 Sep 2015 08:09

HAL copter unit project in Tumakuru hits roadblock
Karnataka is seeing the worst power crisis because of issues within the congress and their infighting/power sharing to satisfy certain ministers. Forsee trouble in the near future with nothing happening (one/two year down the line). HAL will be expecting the state will do it on time, but expect to see delays in moving the transmission lines by the state. I do think HAL must be looking for alternative locations and if they are getting some good location close to Bangalore, they must consider it. TN may come any moment with land somewhere next to Hosur.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 12 Sep 2015 08:33

Relocating HT lines is not a matter of joke , I guess there won't be any change in the alignment , the portion will go underground ( will be safe for heli testing and ferry). Anyway according to the report, HAL was supposed to carry the entire burden and now back tracking, that's the whole issue.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2015 17:25

This article makes me feel so sorry

Fmr DRDO chief Saraswat rues India's inability to build UAVs

Former chief of Defence Research and Development Organisation(DRDO) VK Saraswat today rued the country's inability to build unmanned aerial vehicles and commercial aircraft, and said we have become slaves to the borrowed technology. He said more than the government, it was the industry's job to accelerate the pace of technology in the aerospace sector.

We have become slaves to the borrowed technology. Whatever changes you will do in the terms of policy in making things, unless you have intrinsic capability to design and keep pace with emerging technology in the aerospace and defence you will never be able to make things on your own. No wonder we take so many years to do I am surprised our UAV programme Rustom 1, Rustom 2 keeps getting. We can't make a UAV in this country, how can we built a civil aviation aircraft, Saraswat, a member of NITI Aayog, said.
He was speaking at a seminar on Opportunities In The Aerospace Sector and Policy Imperatives.

He said more than the government, it was the industry's job to accelerate the pace of technology in the aerospace sector. The former DRDO scientist added that the industry must not depend on the government all the time. Is the government responsible that we are not able to make a UAV aircraft. No, I don't think there is any policy that is required to accelerate UAV programme. Is the government responsible for not allowing the acceleration of the LCA (Light Combat Aircraft) production?

It is intrinsically the industry's job to take measures to accelerate pace of production and create yourself as a business entity. You cannot create yourself as an entity which will always depend on inputs from the government. We have to make the industry grow into all the areas of quality improvement, technology, skills to do that, Saraswat said. To give a boost to the local industry, the former DRDO Director General said, there should be an embargo on the Public Sector Undertakings that unless 16 per cent of their product is manufactured by the industry around it, they shall not be allowed to manufacture.

Saraswat said there is a lot of focus on aeronautic science in the country but little emphasis has been given to its commercial side.
As a society we give impetus to the aeronautical science. We are not giving impetus to aeronautics as a business. It is confined to academic discussion on various topics like engine and so on. Rarely have we ventured into the business part of it, the former DRDO chief said.
Giving an example of dedicated freight corridor undertaken by the Ministry of Railways, he said the investment required for the project is around Rs 2 lakh crore.
Investors are ready to invest in such kind of project, even if it is on the Public-Private-Partnership (PPP) model. But when it comes to the aeronautics, the risk averseness tendency of the industry comes out, he said.
Referring to Prime Minister Narendra Modi's recent meeting with India Inc members, Saraswat said the former has also asked the industry leaders to take risk to convert the current global economic scenario into an opportunity. He said when investments are being done in different sectors, it should also be done in the aeronautics sector.

Why is it only in aeronautics that we are looking for a support system. Can't we not think of aeronautics as a means of transporting people, also in terms of business in transporting cargo, he said.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Sep 2015 17:57

^^^^^

Fundamental problem.

Murtha from InfoSys said the very same thing WRT IT.

I disagree with him on the role the gov needs to play.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Sep 2015 18:03

NRao wrote: I disagree with him on the role the gov needs to play.

This is true.

In the West the government encouraged and took over defence manufacturing units - but the histiry goes back more than a century.

India followed the British government policy of not allowing Indian private enterprise to make arms. This was made worse by the socialist practice of having government industry alone produce weapons and weapons systems. The government now need to make things easy for pvt industry to pick up slack by giving firm and large orders.

There may be a chicken/egg which comes first issue here.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Sep 2015 19:32

It is more than arms.

Which is the reason that even the mighty China is facing economic problems.

What he is saying makes perfect sense, but for sustained progress one needs to cultivate a culture. Society alone cannot sustain it. It goes beyond arms and he mentioned it too: commercial air crafts. I would educational institutions, small business, etc.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 12 Sep 2015 19:46

In India, corrupt politicians actually are intentionally killing indigenous capability by imports while some Service Jarnails create public urgency/pretext for imports at their behest.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 12 Sep 2015 19:59

Corruption is everywhere. The question is how much.

I feel India is one place where the people can overcome this problem. Not easy, but doable. Perhaps need a break or two.

Any progress needs to be sustained too. LCA is great. But it needs to be sustained.

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 13 Sep 2015 13:18

PMO Tethers DRDO Indolence

http://www.newindianexpress.com/thesund ... 024657.ece

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 14 Sep 2015 05:56

^A fukcing hit piece. You should warn us before posting such trash, please give a quote or something. I feel soiled for having clicked on that link.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 14 Sep 2015 06:20

Arun Menon looks like some action is being taken to improve projects progress.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 14 Sep 2015 07:26

Another idiot , made a story from no where. His editor must have asked him to write the routine DRDO bashing farticles

The only take away from that shit is ,the prime minister has now asked all project in-charges to submit a monthly report to the highest offices of the government, including the Council of Ministers, defence minister and the Cabinet Secretariat. “Projects in-charge are requested to send update on test and trials conducted in the month along with crucial milestones achieved to the office of the Cabinet Secretariat, Raksha Mantri (defence minister) and Council of Ministers by 5th of every month,”
It will literally empower the project leads and help in bypassing the babus ...let see how it plays.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 14 Sep 2015 09:09

^+1 BINGO. This has actually given the DRDO and the scientist a direct line to the top, bypassing the baboons. It is in fact a sign that the top is taking an interest in the progress of activity in DRDO. No matter how you look at it, indigenous projects have become a greater priority for the Govt and thus it is a win for all those who work on them, particularly the DRDO. The desire to motivate and pressure the DRDO/scientists is also a factor, but not necessarily the major one much less a negative one.

To take this good news and twist it as a reprimand of DRDO takes one dirty presstitute. With paidmedia pimping presstitutes for the highest paying dalals, what else can be expect?

These presstitutes speak with such twisted tongues that they can construe a even the slice of a surgeons scalpel as a stab of a murderer's knife.

We must in no way contribute to the traffic of such websites, hence I request that a fairly sized quote be included, so as to avoid clicking on such filthy links.

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 14 Sep 2015 09:15

Arun Menon wrote:^A fukcing hit piece. You should warn us before posting such trash, please give a quote or something. I feel soiled for having clicked on that link.

Arun,,,, sorry,,,, even i felt the same to read the the way it is reported.. but posted it just to report the development..

i have a suggestion,,, let drdo hint at the MoD to take the updates from Indian express and other presstitutes.. why monthly,, they can send weekly reports also,,,
after all, presstitutes are burning midnight oil to calculate and compile how much spent , how much delay, where it is delayed,, who delayed,, blah,,

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 14 Sep 2015 09:20

lo jee,, ek or,,

DRDO Dumps Panel Choice, Appoints New ADE Director

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 026969.ece

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 14 Sep 2015 09:53

^At least this one has some information. Wonder what the behind-the-scenes truth is. Sadly, Govt orgs (even the DRDO and ISRO) has its share of office politics. I hope the right decision has been made. Frankly, I think that is the case, because Dr. Christopher has stuck his neck out with this decision and NaMo is not kind on those who displeases/disappoints him, as one of the previous DRDO heads would testify.

jayasimha · Post by **jayasimha** » 14 Sep 2015 10:02

my wildest guess and imaginations about things going around and shape of things to come....

1] retired gernals and marshalls made dharana for orop.
2] govt. accepted and there is strain on the (defence) budget.
3] we cannot afford to import all toys for ever.
4] identify the essentials
5] first, put the burner under the seat of the drdo. then dpsu to produce locally,
6] then finally a big burner under the serving offsars to accept it...

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 14 Sep 2015 10:56

Shaun wrote:Another idiot , made a story from no where. His editor must have asked him to write the routine DRDO bashing farticles

The only take away from that shit is ,the prime minister has now asked all project in-charges to submit a monthly report to the highest offices of the government, including the Council of Ministers, defence minister and the Cabinet Secretariat. “Projects in-charge are requested to send update on test and trials conducted in the month along with crucial milestones achieved to the office of the Cabinet Secretariat, Raksha Mantri (defence minister) and Council of Ministers by 5th of every month,”
It will literally empower the project leads and help in bypassing the babus ...let see how it plays.

It is not that DRDO has been specially picked up for this treatment. PMO is monitoring all Ministries via PRAGATI. Now DRDO will also provide input and PMO will review it on monthly basis and anything of concern will be escalated to PM. MoD will also be answerable to PMO if they hold up decision on anything crucial. Part of toning up exercise. There is no bashing up as is made out.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 14 Sep 2015 11:32

^^^^^^why are you quoting me !!! ????