Re: Indian Army: News and Discussions 11 June 2014

[Gagan]

Oh Ramana
you have no idea!
DDM is now aware that India has super good SF. every worm will be itching to write about SF now.
They'll expect SF to be deployed to quell that nieghbourhood riot at the local paan shop too

[IndraD]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-33193275
Indian raid in Myanmar raises regional tensions

"We should have selected a hard target, deep inside Myanmar and hit some leadership cadres," he says.
"Instead we have hit the softer and most proximate camps, which is why there was little retaliatory fire with no casualties on the Indian side."
Despite the lack of detail about the operation and what it achieved, it has raised tensions in the region.

look at the contradiction in farticle

[ramana]

Many experts have many dreams and want someone else to carry them out and get outraged when it does not happen. No worries. IB & RAW said those are the camps where the terrorists who ambushed 6 Dogra camped out.

Does Ajay Shahni have info to contradict that?

[ramana]

MKN writes:

M K Narayanan sir after discharging his duties under the most able MMS ji has more gyan to share.

http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/mu ... e#comments


Lot of internet hindus have commented on this article and looks like for a change the Chndu mod team went to sleep.

Those who preach the virtue of India adopting a new ‘muscular response strategy’ vis-à-vis its neighbours need to be careful not to overstate their case. India’s current policy is one of strategic restraint and is a well-thought-out one

Just three weeks ago, June 4 was a ‘Black Day’ for the Indian Army, when possibly, it suffered its highest-ever casualties in peace time; around 20 of its soldiers from the 6 Dogra Regiment were ambushed and killed and many more injured. The convoy was attacked in Chandel district of Manipur, in a well-planned and executed move by elements of the recently formed United National Liberation Front of WESEA (Western South East Asia) using improvised explosive devices, rocket-propelled grenades and automatic weapons. Thirty-three years ago, in 1982, another Army contingent had suffered a similar deadly attack in the Northeast, claiming the lives of over 15 jawans.


This attack marks a temporary setback to India’s counter insurgency and counter-terrorism efforts in the Northeast. Therefore, it was not unexpected that it provoked the strongest reaction from the government and the armed forces. Instructions were given to launch an all-out search and destroy operation against militant hideouts in jungles along the India-Myanmar border and the hinterland. All this was in keeping with existing Standard Operating Procedures, except, perhaps, for the scale of the operation and the decision to use para commandos.

Missed signals

So far, nothing has been mentioned about the massive failure of military intelligence in this instance. The Northeast region still remains plagued by multiple insurgencies with the possible exception of Mizoram. Manipur itself has as many as 33 militant outfits engaged in violent activities.

Consequently, the Indian Army’s failure to anticipate an attack — which would have been well-rehearsed — and take adequate precautions reflect poorly on its intelligence capability. This is also to say that civilian intelligence agencies have hardly covered themselves with glory.

Two specific developments in recent months in the region should have alerted the agencies to the fact that something was brewing. The first was the decision of the NSCN(K) to unilaterally abrogate its ceasefire with the Indian government, thus signalling a return to the path of violence. The second was the formation of the “rainbow” coalition of several Northeastern militant outfits, including groups like the National Socialist Council of Nagaland NSCN(K), the Paresh Baruah faction of the United Liberation Front of Assam (ULFA), the National Democratic Front of Bodoland NDFB(S), led by Songbijit, and several Meitei outfits such as the KCP, the KYKL and the PULF. Each of these outfits has an outreach to countries not too well disposed towards India — including Pakistan and China — though actual links have been rather tenuous. There could not have been a stronger signal than this that a new phase in militancy in the Northeast was about to commence.

{Isn't this hind sight bias? Was the signal masked in noise? Weren't the terrorists storming and forming regrouping all the time?}


Behind ‘hot pursuit’

The surgical strikes, on June 9, against two militant camps (mainly occupied by NSCN(K) elements) across the border in Myanmar, by para commandos of the 21 Para Regiment — Special Forces were thus very timely as official figures of the militants who were killed vary from 20 to 50 people. The action was conducted under the principle of ‘hot pursuit’ though there could be some ambiguity about employing this phrase, since the action had taken place after a gap of almost five days.

‘Hot pursuit’ is not unknown to India’s armed forces. It may not have international sanctity or legal justification, but several countries have resorted to it when confronted with similar situations. India’s armed forces, the Special Frontier Force and the border guarding forces have, at one time or other, carried out similar special operations citing “hot pursuit” — much of this is in the public domain by now. Admittedly, many of them may not have been on this scale, nor were they possibly acknowledged. Countries which have their sovereignty “violated” this way either protest against the action or “wink at it”. In Myanmar’s case, the authorities seem to have resorted to subterfuge to cover up a disinclination to raise a hue and cry. There are also reports of Myanmar not agreeing to any more such operations.

The theory underlying “special operations” is to retain a degree of “plausible deniability”, to obviate any international opprobrium. Those attacked would realise in any case where the attack emanated from. In the present instance, the wide publicity violates this tenet which is central to any “Special Operation”. It removes the veneer of “plausible deniability”, needed to stave off any unnecessary or uncalled for international attention and criticism of violation of another country’s sovereignty.

{21 Para attacked in uniform. So it was not a covert operation. Did not require plausible deniability}


Jarring note

No doubt, the government would have valid answers to possible criticism levelled against it regarding the nature and scale of the operation, including that of intruding into a neighbouring country’s territory. Therefore, this is not the moot point for concern. What is disconcerting are the outpourings of “triumphalism” with even official spokesmen — ministers not excluded — indulging in verbal excesses. Whether all this signals a change in India’s counter terrorism strategy or not, it certainly creates the impression that a new and aggressive phase in the battle against terrorism has begun. More serious are the implications of certain statements made by those in authority, that the strikes launched inside Myanmar's territory were a precursor to what could well happen on India’s western border in case of any fresh provocation. An official Army declaration that “while ensuring peace and tranquility along the border any threat to our security, safety and national integrity will meet with firm response” is being interpreted as being “indicative” of this new attitude and approach. If such statements were only intended to convey a new “machismo image” of India, then those who make these statements need to understand that this could prove to be counterproductive.

If indeed an attempt is on by some circles to modify the existing Counter Terrorism doctrine and introduce in it an element of “pre-emption”, then India must weigh the pros and cons before adopting such a strategy. The “doctrine of pre-emption” is openly avowed only by countries like the United States and Israel. It is a principle that both countries invoke to disregard constraints of national borders to carry out pre-emptive attacks outside their borders to deal with notional threats to their security and sovereignty.

The western border

If India now seeks to “sail close to the wind” as far as this doctrine is concerned, it must understand the inherent dangers in following a U.S.-Israel analogy. Pakistan would seem to be the obvious target given its spate of provocations. Even though there has been no mention of Pakistan by Indian interlocutors on the present occasion, Pakistan has already reacted strongly. The imputation that “Pakistan is not Myanmar” suggests that it could resort to any incursion with its “disproportionate response” strategy. “Disproportionate response” is already a part of Pakistan’s official Army doctrine.

The intrinsic danger in all this is that while Pakistan may appear dysfunctional, it is, by no means, a failed state. It remains essentially unpredictable, though, even at the best of times, rational decision-making has not been Pakistan’s strong point. Decision-making in Pakistan has generally tended to be bereft of cognitive thinking. Therefore, it cannot be expected to adhere to the definition of rationality viz., “behaviour that is appropriate to specified goals in the context of a given situation”. With the Army dominating the commanding heights of policy in Pakistan, it is they who will determine the manner of retaliation. It may not be an “olive branch”, but more probably a “nuclear one”.

This is not implausible, for Pakistan has been steadily increasing its nuclear and missile capabilities, mainly targeting India. Hence, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that Pakistan would see in this so-called new “doctrine of pre-emption”, an opportunity to deploy its nuclear and missile capabilities against India. As it is, Pakistan has constantly harped on India’s non-existent “Cold Start Doctrine”, and its response has been to build and deploy battlefield and tactical nuclear weapons to deal with any incursion by India’s armed forces. Pakistan’s nuclear capability is today buttressed by its Shaheen “missile family” — the Shaheen-I, the Shaheen-II and the Shaheen-III category missiles, which are capable of hitting most parts of India.

Those who preach the virtue of adopting a new “muscular response strategy” vis-à-vis our neighbours — Pakistan included — need to be careful not to overstate their case. India’s current policy incorporates a degree of strategic restraint, and it is a well-thought out one. It has served India’s purpose well. Realistically speaking, there is no substitute for a well-calibrated policy.

(M.K. Narayanan is a former National Security Adviser and former Governor of West Bengal.)

[Karan M]

Those who preach the virtue of adopting a new “muscular response strategy” vis-à-vis our neighbours — Pakistan included — need to be careful not to overstate their case. India’s current policy incorporates a degree of strategic restraint, and it is a well-thought out one. It has served India’s purpose well. Realistically speaking, there is no substitute for a well-calibrated policy.

Worthless paeans to completely flawed policies prior while India burnt during 26/11 and countless incidents before and thereafter.

[ramana]

Is the elected Govt of India the right body to implement its policy or is it for defeated party members/minions to dictate what is strategic restraint? C- System really subverted all ranks of governance. I though the was cured of his nonsense after sitting in Raj Bhavan and ruminate on his role or lack there of, in 26/11 terrorist attack.. Looks like it has not.


Had he intercepted the terrorists on high seas he would have been hailed as hero. Instead he allowed them to land and create mayhem. I guess he was using strategic restraint in allowing the terrorists a free hand to attack and kill at will in Mumbai.


He owes an explanation to the 196 dead in Mumbai attack..
MMS the do nothing/nikamma PM might forgive him and reward him with a Governor position but history still remembers.

[ramana]

Islamist terrorists trained in NSCN(K) camps-NIA

India's National Investigation Agency (NIA) says they have evidence that Islamic militants from India and Bangladesh were receiving training in the Myanmar guerrilla bases of the NSCN (Khaplang group).

The NSCN (K) is a separatist group fighting for an independent state for Nagas to be carved out of areas dominated by the ethnic group in India and Myanmar.

Its 2012 ceasefire with Myanmar authorities remains intact, but its 2000 ceasefire with India has fallen apart and the rebel group has mounted a series of deadly attack on Indian forces in the last two months killing nearly 30 soldiers.

NIA officials told Mizzima they arrested Nurul Hoque alias Naeem, the chief trainer of the Jamaatul Mujahideen Bangladesh (JMB) at the Howrah railway station, near Kolkata this week..

NIA officials said that after his arrest on Thursday, Naeem had said he had received advanced training in guerrilla warfare at a base of the National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) that is shared by the ULFA, in Myanmar's Sagaing hills.

Hoque claimed that there were other JMB militants who have already received training or were under training in the NSCN-K bases in Myanmar.

The NIA believes the ULFA is the link in the chain between the NSCN based in Myanmar and the Bangladesh radicals.

Before relocating to NSCN-K bases in Myanmar, the ULFA leadership was largely based in Bangladesh.

But they had to leave the country after Bangladesh Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina's government launched a fierce crackdown on anti-Indian rebel groups after she came to power in Jan 2009.

Scores of rebels leaders from India's Northeast were arrested and handed over to India quietly to stand trial.

Ms Hasina's government also went after the Muslim radicals in a big way - and that perhaps forced them to make common cause with northeast Indian rebel groups like the ULFA.

I guess result of strategic restraint.

[member_22539]

^MKN's sermon is just like a prostitute questioning the virtues of loyalty to one's partner.

[ramana]

He has gotten many rebuttals on other news sites......

[Karan M]

Wleaks also notes that MKN was very much against Cold Start.

No wonder arty, ammo and other sundry items needed to make it a reality didn't occur or were delayed.

Another example of strategic restraint.

[srin]

Why did he term it as "non-existent" Cold start ? If it doesn't exist, speaks volumes about his tenure as NSA

[ramana]

Nehruvian 'strategic restraint' is policy of unilaterally disarming oneself hoping adversaries wont attack them. its miserable failure for unilateral disarming attracts the adversaries for they pay no price for the attack.

All these officers were selected by the UPSC for that type of thinking.

[SaiK]

Shaken NSCN-K Announces Bounty on Indian Army, Wants Indian soldier “captured alive”
Published June 24, 2015 | By admin
SOURCE: EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE

Close on the heels of NSCN-K faction announcing a bounty on the head of every Indian soldier “captured alive”, the Army has asked its personnel to remain extra-cautious while visiting their native places on holiday.“We have issued an advisory to our soldiers asking them to be extra-cautious during leave, when they visit their native places,” said a senior official.

The National Socialist Council of Nagaland-Khaplang (NSCN-K) faction announced the cash reward to the residents of border districts of Manipur and Assam, who capture alive Indian soldiers, after the Army destroyed several of the outfit’s camps located on Indo-Myanmar border on June 9, causing “significant losses”.

The Army had on the intervening night of June 8-9 conducted a special operation inside Myanmar territory and killed several insurgents, believed to be responsible for the deadly ambush on an Army convoy on June 4 in which 18 soldiers were killed. According to sources, the Army’s offensive against the insurgent groups had forced them wreak revenge. “Anyone, who hand over an Indian soldier alive, will be rewarded with huge cash,” said the militant outfit.

A large number of the Assam Rifles personnel are camping near the border areas of Assam and Manipur and the NSCN-K faction is likely to target them when they leave for their native places. The last three months had witnessed several deadly militant attacks on the Army and Assam Rifles, after the NSCN-K pulled out of the 15-year-long ceasefire agreement with the Centre in March.

On April 2, a convoy of 4 Rajput Battalion was attacked by suspected NSCN-K cadre at Khonsa in Eastern Arunachal Pradesh in which four soldiers were killed and several others were injured. A month later, the outfit struck in Nagaland’s Mon district, killing eight Assam Rifles soldiers.

The NSCN-K was formed by S S Khaplang and Khole Konyak in 1988 to establish “Greater Nagaland”.

According to sources in the intelligence agencies, the NSCN-K has been drawing financial and arms support from China and trying to attract other outfits operating in Manipur into its fold.

The NSCN-K withdrew from the ceasefire agreement with the Centre after Ulfa chief Paresh Barua and Beijing persuaded Khaplang to walk out of the agreement. According to sources, the decision was opposed by two of its senior leaders, Y Wangtin Naga and P Tikhak, who subsequently decided to float a new Naga militant outfit.http://idrw.org/shaken-nscn-k-announces ... more-67205

Significantly, the recent attack on the Army convoy was carried out with the support of Kanglei Yawol Kanna Lup (KYKL) and a faction of the Kangleipak Communist Party (KCP).

[Singha]

its time to offer a bounty to all citizens in myanmar in gold or dollars for any NSCN or islamic ghazi captured dead or alive.

there must be lot of heavily armed smugglers and criminal networks there who resent these 'freedom fighters' from outside muscling on their turf. time to use local resources to go after them.

also tell the rangoon junta that khaplang is a huge liability for them and not good for indian investment and weapons which they seek, tell them to get rid of the him and his gang or let him be handed over at the nepal border as usual.

[wig]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... 62868.aspx
Rebels behind Manipur strike unscathed in Myanmar raid?

The army’s daring June 9 cross-border Myanmar raid didn’t kill any of the Naga rebels who had ambushed and killed 18 soldiers in Manipur five days earlier, latest intelligence inputs have revealed.
After the rare intervention across the border, the defence ministry in a statement claimed to have inflicted “significant casualties’’ on the insurgents who carried out the worst attack on the army in almost 30 years. Top government officials, however, now say the National Socialist Council of Nagaland (Khaplang) rebels were not among the dead.

“The process of collating intelligence from human sources is a time consuming exercise given the terrain and topography along the border between the Northeast and Myanmar, but it is clear that NSCN (K) insurgents remain unscathed,’’ an intelligence official said.

The army didn’t reveal the number of insurgents killed but during off-the-record briefings the figures varied from 20 to 100.

Wireless intercepts and information gathered on the ground, however, point to the Naga insurgents surviving the overnight raid by the army’s elite paratroopers.

Intercepts also indicate the fact that Niki Sumi, SS Khaplang’s military adviser and self-styled lieutenant general, who is believed to have masterminded the June 4 attack is in touch with his troops.

In a briefing after the operation, the army had said it had “credible and specific intelligence that further attacks were being planned within our own territory’’ by the same group that had struck in Chandel, Manipur.

Soon after the raid, the NSCN (K), which abrogated ceasefire with the Indian government in March, had in a statement questioned the army’s claim of inflicting “significant casualties”, saying the group had not suffered any losses. Intelligence coming in from multiple agencies now seems to support the claim.

When reached for comments, a spokesperson for the ministry of defence said, “The aim was to give the insurgents a clear message that they can’t mess with us.”

Officials familiar with the counterattack said they knocked out a rebel camp and that it was not for them to count the bodies. “Those responsible for killing our soldiers will also get killed sometime soon,’’ an officer said.

The army continues to be on an alert in the northeast. “We are watching the insurgents and their camps along the India-Myanmar border. Retaliatory strikes by the insurgents cannot be ruled out,’’ an official said.

[member_22539]

^Typical presstitute mud slinging attempt at the govt. Who are these "multiple agencies?" Aside from the terrorists who have every reason to lie, I only see fellow presstitutes who can be part of these "multiple agencies." Heck even the pakis are scared shitless about this. I don't see them being scared for "not suffered any losses."

"Multiple agencies" can also question the the presstitute's paternity, but that hardly would make it true right? (I certainly hope so)

[Avinash R]

Report is by Harinder Baweja, known partner of Tehelka rapist-in-chief Tarun Tejpal and Tarun Tejpal who happens to be a congress presstitute http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-go ... ns-1925838

The Presstitutes in the media are now indirectly attacking BJP by questioning the credibility of army operations using unnamed "intelligence official". People wouldn't be surprised if they find out that intelligence official turns out to be tarun tejpal.

[vinod]

^^^ well if the rebels weren't killed, let us do it again. Simple!

[Prem]

Report is by Harinder Baweja, known partner of Tehelka rapist-in-chief Tarun Tejpal and Tarun Tejpal who happens to be a congress presstitute http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-go ... 1925838The Presstitutes in the media are now indirectly attacking BJP by questioning the credibility of army operations using unnamed "intelligence official". People wouldn't be surprised if they find out that intelligence official turns out to be tarun tejpal.

If Presstitute Baweja has squeaked then Islamist connection is confirmed.

[RamaY]

^^^ well if the rebels weren't killed, let us do it again. Simple!

That's a simple, straight & logical statement of the day!

[fanne]

How about this - If Harinder Baweja ko mirchi lagi, then we must have done something right.

[pankajs]

Zee News ‏@ZeeNews 17m17 minutes ago

NIA arrests top NSCN(K) commander allegedly involved in Manipur attacks
http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/nia ... 22084.html …

Vicky Nanjappa ‏@vickynanjappa 9m9 minutes ago

Manipur attack: NIA gets custody of top NSCN(K) leader http://www.oneindia.com/india/manipur-a ... icle-tweet … #manipur via @oneindia

[ramana]

Maybe Myanmar pushed him to the border and informed NIA!!!

[Rahul M]

let me put it this way, the report claims NSCNK cadres were not killed. did the army claim NSCNK cadres were killed ?
since it didn't, to my knowledge, what is the point of this farticle ?

this is a complete non sequitur pretending to be a scoop.

[Karan M]

Nehruvian 'strategic restraint' is policy of unilaterally disarming oneself hoping adversaries wont attack them. its miserable failure for unilateral disarming attracts the adversaries for they pay no price for the attack.

All these officers were selected by the UPSC for that type of thinking.

Latest is Shiv Shankar Menon, stating that MMSs greatest achievement were most successful peace talks with TSP etc and India shouldn't be stridently nationalistic. Seriously, these gents were our NSAs.

[Hobbes]

Zee News ‏@ZeeNews 17m17 minutes ago

NIA arrests top NSCN(K) commander allegedly involved in Manipur attacks
http://zeenews.india.com/news/india/nia ... 22084.html …

Vicky Nanjappa ‏@vickynanjappa 9m9 minutes ago

Manipur attack: NIA gets custody of top NSCN(K) leader http://www.oneindia.com/india/manipur-a ... icle-tweet … #manipur via @oneindia

This is an interesting coincidence. They've caught a senior terrorist - the "regional commander" - two weeks after the cross border raid. The Zee News report said more arrests are in the offing. Is this a discreet way of announcing the haul from the raid?

[VinodTK]

India and Myanmar choke terror supply routes

The armies of India and Myanmar have launched massive parallel operations to choke terror supply routes and deny North-east rebels free movement across the porous India-Myanmar border.

On the Indian side, operations have been initiated both in Nagaland and Manipur to preempt a repeat of June 4 ambush of an Army convoy. The Myanmar army has moved closer to the Indian border and is learnt to have put restrictions on the movement of goods, food and provisions being carried by individuals along the India-Myanmar border.

Intelligence agencies have warned of NSCN (K) and Manipur People's Liberation Army (PLA) regrouping, forming teams to scout vulnerable points and target them. "There is a specific input about the vulnerability of Kohima-Kiphire highway. Besides,there is also an alert for Changlang, Joyrampur. The alert is not restricted to rebel movement in Manipur and Nagaland but extends to the Sibsagar district of Assam," sources said. The information has been corroborated during the initial interrogation of recently arrested NSCN (K) commander Khumlo Abi Anal.

The Army has more clarity on the June 4 ambush which was carried out by three groups of NSCN (K) cadre of guided by PLA (I) cadre. The terror ambush team comprised 23 rebels. "Two were killed on the spot while 21 escaped after the ambush. None of these were hit in the Army operations mounted in Myanmar on June 9. But the current parallel operations is aimed to make it more difficult for terrorists to operate freely in the region," sources added.

Intelligence inputs indicate after the June 9 operations undertaken by 21 Para Special Forces and the fear of more operations being undertaken by Myanmar's army, several training and logistics camps of the militants have temporarily shut down along the India-Myanmar border operating on the other side of the border. "The North-east rebels have moved deeper into Sagaing. Initially they had some camps barely 5 to 15 km inside Myanmar. But now our information is that their bigger bases are at least 5-7 days walk from the border in the dense jungles. Several rebel outfits have their main bases in the Kachin province and operate with the blessings from elements in the Chinese army," top sources at the Raisina Hill said.

Nay Pyi Taw was miffed with the reactions to the June 9 operations. National Security Adviser Ajit Doval and foreign secretary S Jaishankar's visit with a team of top military commanders has put defence cooperation on an even keel. A high-level delegation of Myanmar army led by their Army chief is to visit India and finetune the ongoing operations.

"The aim is to have real-time intelligence sharing on the movement of rebels and take real-time action on ground. The current operation will help choke supply routes and movement of these assorted terrorist groups. Myanmar has been very cooperative and we hope to have better actionable intelligence for swift on ground operations," sources added.

This intelligence has enabled the Army to mount both hunt and kill operations for armed terrorists and simultaneously take action to prevent terrorists from striking Army convoys. There are inputs about terrorists planting IEDs to target convoys or resort to stand off attacks.