DEFEXPO 2010

[Shankar]

The L&T display with a photomural of the "Arihant" is a huge fib.It is NOT a pic of the Arihant but a pic of a RN Trafalgar attack SSN.If it is the Arihant-which I'm convinced it is not,then the ATV is an absolute copy of that sub.I cannot understand why L&T should "fib" at an international event like this and if I'm not mistaken,the same was shown at another international expo.We do understand the secrecy with which the IN/DRDO has about the actual details of the ATV being publicly displayed,but there are several pics of the offical opening which could've been used instead and there are pics of the sub assembly centre with pics of the hull sections in a defence mag..

If I were LT would have used Nerpa photo instead -it would have been factually more accurate and MOD objection since they have never acknowledged Arihant is modified Akula 2

[ankit-s]

Denel is 100 pcnt state owned. South African Gov is the sole shareholder of this important SA defense company which is a key supplier (70%) to the South African National Defence Force.

What would be the likelihood of it being sold to foreigners?

Just as we think HAL would ever be sold to south Africa or other overseas buyers!

Just a thought......

If you think HAL is the benchmark for how countries should or will handle their defense industry, then think again.

Keep an open mind and remember that
- one doesn't have to wait for precedence to be set (even though there are in this case) or
- one doesn't have to apply the same rules at home and away (there is precedence for this, look at the "west")!!

Here are some pointers for case studies if you are interested, "British Aerospace" and "DCNS".

British Aerospace and DCNS were sold ? to whom my friend ?

[Samay]

If I were LT would have used Nerpa photo instead -it would have been factually more accurate and MOD objection since they have never acknowledged Arihant is modified Akula 2

can provide a link that shows Arihant is of akula class??

[svinayak]

India has had to reassure foreign countries that those games and next month's hockey World Cup in Delhi will be safe and free of terror attacks.
"Given the growing threats, we need nano-engineering such as the Atac," Metaltech Vice President SW Thatte said.

[Craig Alpert]

DEFEXPO 2010 Pictures

[ankit-s]

Denel is 100 pcnt state owned. South African Gov is the sole shareholder of this important SA defense company which is a key supplier (70%) to the South African National Defence Force.

What would be the likelihood of it being sold to foreigners?

Just as we think HAL would ever be sold to south Africa or other overseas buyers!

Just a thought......

If you think HAL is the benchmark for how countries should or will handle their defense industry, then think again.

Keep an open mind and remember that
- one doesn't have to wait for precedence to be set (even though there are in this case) or
- one doesn't have to apply the same rules at home and away (there is precedence for this, look at the "west")!!

Here are some pointers for case studies if you are interested, "British Aerospace" and "DCNS".

British Aerospace and DCNS were sold ? to whom my friend ?


Aha...I waited for a week for you to respond to your frivelous post involving the projection of a WRONG precedent, but then it was a hit and run type.........You knew that you are on a slippery slop, kind of skating on a thin ice.

Well, as the facts stand:

British Aerospace has never been SOLD to no one and is still the British Corporation with headquarters in Farnborough England.

Talk about DCNS and it is still a French government owned enterprise (75%) with its headquarters well entrenched in Paris.

Must you belittle new comers and misguide forum readers with your shrewd moves involving half truths or probable mischiefs ?

You knew that you were absolutely wrong on this issue in the beginning!

Hence you slunk off - crept away furtively - what an example you set for BR readers my friend!

[Kersi D]

All of us get carried away by big glamourous things like MRCA, Arjun, Scorpene, Arihant etc. But there are many small items and systems which are quite crucial. In the DEF EXPO a lot of BRFites wrote about a lot of things. I was simply tooo lazy to write anything. But when I found that nobody (to the best of my knowledge) wrote on a rather small but useful system I manhandled myself to write about it.

I had read about an underwater communication system in the US Navy called Gertrude. It is used to communicate between the submarine and other submarine and ships. It is basically a "sonar telephone".

DRDO is developing such a system. The system will soon start trials. Theoritically this system is far superior to the present Russian systems used on the earlier submarines. DRDO says that the sonar wave is encrypted so that even if enemy "catches" the sonat wave, he cannot read it without the encryption code. The person on the stall did not seem to know much about it saying that soem other person is looking after this project. I would guess that for sucha project DRDO would not like to reveal any details. It is surprising that this system was exhibited in an open forum

Sounds very interesting to me.

K

[sunny y]

Kersi Sir, DRDO has already developed this system & it is already in production.....May be what you saw was an advanced version....

http://www.drdo.org/labs/npol/achieve.html

Underwater Telephone (UWT) is a medium power compact system, which provides speech, Morse code, digital data communication between Submarines or between surface vessel and Submarine using water as acoustic medium. The UWT conforms to NATO and EKM standards for Military underwater communication.

Primary modes of communication include

voice - Normal speech communication

Telegraph - transmits Morse code using telegraph keys.

Secondary modes include

Pinger - free running distress signal used as emergency location beacon

External - transmit /receive any external audio signal through a tape recorder

Digital - Data transfer between computers

Message - transmit /receive Up to 99 pre-coded digital messages

Respond - general receive mode with Range finding facility

This is inducted and being effectively used by INDIAN NAVY. Production of this units are carried out by by M/s KELTRON, Thiruvanthapuram.

[a_kumar]

Its funny how you keep attributing Cybaru's and Your posts to me. To set things straight..

One of these large house like tata or mahindra should just buy Denel out and out and move a lot of stuff to India.

Denel is 100 pcnt state owned. South African Gov is the sole shareholder of this important SA defense company which is a key supplier (70%) to the South African National Defence Force.
What would be the likelihood of it being sold to foreigners?
Just as we think HAL would ever be sold to south Africa or other overseas buyers!

It seems like some of your flamebaits/trolling and my responses have been lost in the glitch yesterday.

In case you missed the message : If you want to be taken seriously, choose your responses appropriately. There is no compulsion or obligation to butt into a conversation when all you got are smartass comments and no real contribution. You still can, but don't try to hide behind the newbie tag.

You brought up HAL as an example on how the whole world will deal with their defense industries. My well-intentioned response should have put an end to the rant. This response stands by itself.

Keep an open mind and remember that
- one doesn't have to wait for precedence to be set (even though there are in this case) or
- one doesn't have to apply the same rules at home and away (there is precedence for this, look at the "west")!!

But you come with more and more trolling, some of which is erased, lucky you. On specifically BAe..

British Aerospace has never been SOLD to no one and is still the British Corporation with headquarters in Farnborough England.

Mostly Wrong. British Aerospace has been sold (or divested or whatever you learnt yesterday in your Economics 101 that you referred to in now erased post).

In accordance with the provisions of the British Aerospace Act 1980 the statutory corporation was changed to a Public limited company (plc), British Aerospace Public Limited Company, on 1 January 1981. On 4 February 1981 the government sold 51.57% of its shares. The British government sold its remaining shares in 1985, maintaining a £1 Golden Share which allows it veto foreign control of the board or company.[1]

If you had really went and studied it, you would also have noticed that a Swedish firm (Bofors) was bought by an American firm (United Defense Industries)

In September 2000 United Defense Industries (UDI) of the United States acquired Bofors Weapons Systems (the heavy weapons division)

And then British firm (BAE Systems) bought the Swedish firm (Bofors) from the Americans (United Defense Industries).

BAE Systems Bofors (BAE Systems acquired United Defense and its Bofors subsidiary in 2005

Did you notice that two of your premises.. (1) Govt. will not sell its share (2) Govts. will not let foreign firms buy domestic defense industries are both taken care of. Yes, they may not offer you and I opportunity to buy out Denel!!! So go back to my response highlighted above.. there are several ways to skin the cat and you could have offered one way instead of trolling.

Lastly, as you said, Govt, is still the primary owner of DCNS. But it did part with 25% of the its ownership and is will to let go of upto 35%. Again, this should have showed you at the least that the world doesn't look through HAL's lenses, which should take care of one of your very first comments.

This is completely OT here, so if you want to carry on the trolling, please take it elsewhere.

I hope mods delete this conversation so actual information could be archived!!

[Kersi D]

Kersi Sir, DRDO has already developed this system & it is already in production.....May be what you saw was an advanced version....

http://www.drdo.org/labs/npol/achieve.html

Underwater Telephone (UWT) is a medium power compact system, which provides speech, Morse code, digital data communication between Submarines or between surface vessel and Submarine using water as acoustic medium. The UWT conforms to NATO and EKM standards for Military underwater communication.

Primary modes of communication include

voice - Normal speech communication

Telegraph - transmits Morse code using telegraph keys.

Secondary modes include

Pinger - free running distress signal used as emergency location beacon

External - transmit /receive any external audio signal through a tape recorder

Digital - Data transfer between computers

Message - transmit /receive Up to 99 pre-coded digital messages

Respond - general receive mode with Range finding facility

This is inducted and being effectively used by INDIAN NAVY. Production of this units are carried out by by M/s KELTRON, Thiruvanthapuram.

If DRDO displays then it is likely that the system is already in use though they may say it it undergoing user trials

My object of the post is that we get carried away with glamorous items but we often overlook small critical items.

You may be surprised. Many years ago there was an article in Indian news paper that a LGB launched by an aircraft was guided by a UAV whilst the aircraft turned away from the danger zone. I would call this as a very important and critical development. To my surprise BR was quiet !!!


K

[Surya]

You may be surprised. Many years ago there was an article in Indian news paper that a LGB launched by an aircraft was guided by a UAV whilst the aircraft turned away from the danger zone. I would call this as a very important and critical development. To my surprise BR was quiet !!!

In my caseit was deliberate

notice my enthu to get the UAV feed of VS10

I have good discipline in such areas

[sumshyam]

from 8ak.in:: TRUTH ABOUT Defexpo straight from Bharat Verma, Editor, Indian Defence Review

Part1:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POU0haNpWLI
Part2:: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhUoIGwuYUw

[jamwal]

Here are some pictures that I didn't upload earlier

BrahMos Pavilion

DRDO Outdoor display Many Remotely operated vehicles

Foreign Misc


Can somebody please tell the name of this Russian submarine

[amitabha.ghosh]

The L&T display with a photomural of the "Arihant" is a huge fib.It is NOT a pic of the Arihant but a pic of a RN Trafalgar attack SSN.If it is the Arihant-which I'm convinced it is not,then the ATV is an absolute copy of that sub.I cannot understand why L&T should "fib" at an international event like this and if I'm not mistaken,the same was shown at another international expo.We do understand the secrecy with which the IN/DRDO has about the actual details of the ATV being publicly displayed,but there are several pics of the offical opening which could've been used instead and there are pics of the sub assembly centre with pics of the hull sections in a defence mag..

If I were LT would have used Nerpa photo instead -it would have been factually more accurate and MOD objection since they have never acknowledged Arihant is modified Akula 2

L&T had used this as a stock photo for the advertisement after Arihant became public news. The bureaucracy obviously did not clear the usage of the actual photo. Though its more ostrich like but you can't avoid but toe the Govt line!! As regards the similarity, its purely coincidental and nowhere is it said that the snap represents Arihant

[Misraji]

Can somebody please tell the name of this Russian submarine

Thats a Kilo class sub. Don't know the type though.
That is either 636 or 877ekm.

Regards,
Ashish

[Jaeger]

Can somebody please tell the name of this Russian submarine

Thats a Kilo class sub. Don't know the type though.
That is either 636 or 877ekm.

Regards,
Ashish

Would you happen to know about the two models to the upper right of the same image?

The one to the lower right looks... familiar... Arihant? Note the bulge aft of the conning tower. It (the bulge) too small to be a Delta class - can't connect it to any SSBN/SSGN I know of. And the one above it? What's that? Looks like an SSN/large SSK.

Intriguing to say the least.

[Jaeger]

Just realised that the SSGN-ish one could possibly be the Amur 1950 with the BrahMos launch VLS insert.

The SSK/SSN model still beats me - could it be the Italio-Russian project - the proposed <1000t coastal sub? S1000 I think. Or it could be Malakhit's Piranya proposal... hmmm.

[Misraji]

Lada and Amur class subs images.

The first model seems to be Amur 1650 (or Lada class) while the second seems to be Amur 950.
Don't know about Brahmos VLS insert. Seems to be standard on the sub.

Regards,
Ashish

[Jaeger]

Lada and Amur class subs images.

The first model seems to be Amur 1650 (or Lada class) while the second seems to be Amur 950.
Don't know about Brahmos VLS insert. Seems to be standard on the sub.

Regards,
Ashish

You're right, they're both Amur's. The thing is, IMVVHO, I don't believe that the 950 comes std. with Brahmos, it's a special insert for India's P76 bid.

I'm still not entirely convinced about the other one being the 1650 though. The hull seems a lot deeper than in the images you linked. I could be wrong, of course.