Maritime History of India

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SvenLittkowski
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Maritime History of India

Post by SvenLittkowski »

Hi. I am writing on a book about the maritime history of India, and i am specializing on ancient india. The exact focus would be BC 5,000 to AD 800.

Since years i have tried to reach to any organization in india which might have such a focus, but I never received even one answer. That's why I am using this forum here to ask you all, to connect me with professionals who studied or know at least about ancient ships in India, or to organizations (such as universities) which might have knowledge on that matter.

Especially interested I am in illustrations and descriptions. However, if it comes to text, I would be in need of English or German translations, my apologies.

Is here anyone who can help me? Also, I know of the scientific author Prithwis Chandra Chakravarti. Is it still possible to contact him, and if, how? Thanks a lot.

Sven Littkowski
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by shiv »

I am guessing that you need to get in touch with specific places that have a record of the maritime history of India.

Offhand I can think of two places, but with Wiki links that have some museum or other archeological evidence

One is Dwaraka
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Dwarka

The other is Pondicherry - specifically Arikamedu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arikamedu
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by SvenLittkowski »

That's a good hint, I will try right away! Thanks!

...

Well, I just tried. These links are more about locations. But I need to get in touch with persons. One of the sites you gave me contained an interesting link:
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Dwarka?t=13.#14.

But when I tried that "Maritime Archaeology" link on that page above, I got only an error.

I am still so much in need to contact authorities or persons with knowledge.
Last edited by Gerard on 19 Apr 2010 04:58, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: removed color tags
Gerard
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Gerard »

The latest issue of Frontline may have some pointers on places to visit, people to interview etc

Muziris, at last?
Archaeologists believe they have found at least a part of the ancient port city of Muziris.

South Indians in Roman Egypt?

‘They travelled to make money’
Interview with Prof. Steven E. Sidebotham, who leads the archaeologists from the University of Delaware conducting excavations at Berenike.

Historical insights
Interview with Dr K.N. Panikkar, formerly Professor of History at JNU and now Chairman of the Kerala Council for Historical Research.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by SvenLittkowski »

Gerard, great links! Thanks a lot! I was able to research the e-mail addresses of three professionals featured inside the Muziris website link. Let's see, what might come out of it.

I am going now through the other links you provided.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Murugan »

Chola Navigation Package by Prof B Arunachalam is the best book to know about ancient south indian maritime traditions (kerala and tamilnad)
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by shiv »

Perhaps this link will give you names of people who have contributed to journals who may actually respond to communication? Check the name and address of author and refs at the end.

http://drs.nio.org/drs/bitstream/2264/5 ... n_6_56.pdf

Also this page appears to have a lot of links related to your study, but I have not followed up those links
http://sites.google.com/site/kalyan96/e ... n-kandiyur

There appears to be a book called "Illustrated Maritime history of the Indian Ocean" by an O.K. Nambiar quoted on the Indian navy website.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Philip »

Offshore underwater archaeology has shown that artefacxts from the sites off the eastern coast near Poompuhar are dated to be around 10,000BC at least.The Asian tsunami showed as the sea receded,submerged temples just off the famous shore temple at Mahabalipuram in T'Nadu. Bet Dwarka off the Gujarat coast in also from carbon dating to be also several thousands of years old.The Lothal dock,of Indo-Gangetic civilisation fame, is supposed to be the oldest ever in this region.A recent article in a journal said that the famous port of "Mueseri",where Indo-Roman trade thrived had been discovered in the backwaters of Kerala.More prominent today are the maritime forts of the Marathas who played havoc with European powers in the Arabian Sea.Over the last 10,00 years,the coastline of India has receded inland by about 30-40km,which explains the Poompuhar site dating and also that of Dwarka.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by SvenLittkowski »

Great feedbacks!

Murugan, can you give me more details about this book? Does it contain illustrations of those ancient ships, as well? Or text only?

Inside those linked pages, I see many author's names. But no way to contact them. An example, I would like to contact Mr. Shikaripura Ranganatha Rao, but even after having researched his name on the Internet, I still got no way to address anything to him. So, I still need at least e-mail addresses.

Can anyone provide links to images of ancient Indian ships? I could also need high-resolution color images of the Ajanta ship, among them.
If necessary, I also could give my e-mail address in PMs so it would be possible to e-mail me images and descriptions for them.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Philip »

One book,"Underworlds"-Flooded kingdoms of the ice age,by author Graham Hancock has some interesting facts.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Rahul M »

I think you are already aware of the famous dry-dock at Lothal. this is an artist's impression from the Archeological Survey of India(ASI). Image

this is how the place looks now Image

ASI website : http://asi.nic.in/ and contacts : http://asi.nic.in/asi_aboutus_organizat ... uarter.asp
__________________________

Virtually every coastal place in India has had maritime traditions. In the period you mention, one of the most important ports in India was Tamralipta (modern day Tamluk in west bengal) which maintained significant trade relations with SE asia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamralipta

in the epics dealing with maritime life of that period, a recurrent theme is that of a mayurpankhi (peacock tail) boat. this is a reconstruction of the same.
Image

both ASI and Asiatic Society kolkata should have material you will find useful. The ASI contacts are given above.
this is the Asiatic Society contact page. http://www.asiaticsocietycal.com/contactus.htm
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by SvenLittkowski »

Thanks again! I am studying now these new links...
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by arrjunkumarr »

Does anyone have an understanding of what happened at Khambat/Cambay? The place used to be a thriving port town. Today, the sea has receeded to an extent of nearly 8 kms. Does anyone have a description of the place (apart from what Wiki carries) on what was the impact of this?
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by SvenLittkowski »

I don't know about that one. But I think, this might be the wrong thread. ;-)
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Neela »

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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Sanku »

I assume you have already used google to check out sites such as these for information?

http://www.manoharbooks.com/search.asp? ... %20History

It has links to many books such as these (not directly linked)
http://publicationsdivision.nic.in/Eng- ... e/EA05.HTM

I remember a discussion a few years back where a book on Indian maritime tradition was discussed on publication. The name of the author completely eludes me at the moment.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Rahul M »

Image
Ancient Indian ocean-going ship arriving at Java, from a frieze of the Borobodur stupa.

(image source: India: A concise history - By Francis Watson p. 72)
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by SvenLittkowski »

Rahul M.: image link not working (image maybe removed from server?).Checking on the other links. Again, thanks to everyone!
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by csharma »

Apologies if the link was posted earlier.

http://ccbs.ntu.edu.tw/FULLTEXT/JR-ENG/cha.htm

Naval Warfare in ancient India

By Prithwis Chandra Chakravarti


The Indian Historical Quarterly


Vol.4, No.4 1930.12, pp.645-664
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Gerard »

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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Kanson »

Pattanam/Patnam/Pattinam means Port City. It is not a Sanskrit word but of Sounth Indian Origin. I guess it is Tamil.

You can find many places ending with the name Pattanam/Patnam/Pattinam throughout costal South India which means it has some kind of maritime history connected to it. ex:

Virampatnam (Arikamedu)
Kaveripattinam (Poompuhar)
Vishakapatnam (Vizag)
and even Jaffna patnam ( Jafna, Sri lanka) That is how Jaffna was called before the colonist arrived.
By just checking the name, one can get the history behind it.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Sanku »

Kanson wrote:It is not a Sanskrit word but of Sounth Indian Origin. I guess it is Tamil.
Why does there have to be a contradiction? Why cant a Sanskrit word be already in use when Sanskrit was first formalized?

Why cant it be in South?
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Atri »

Kanson wrote:
Pattanam/Patnam/Pattinam means Port City. It is not a Sanskrit word but of Sounth Indian Origin. I guess it is Tamil.

You can find many places ending with the name Pattanam/Patnam/Pattinam throughout costal South India which means it has some kind of maritime history connected to it. ex:

Virampatnam (Arikamedu)
Kaveripattinam (Poompuhar)
Vishakapatnam (Vizag)
and even Jaffna patnam ( Jafna, Sri lanka) That is how Jaffna was called before the colonist arrived.
By just checking the name, one can get the history behind it.
what about Srirangapatanam? Pattan is sanskrit derivative word similar to "pura" which means fortified city. There are many "Pattans" in inlands both peninsular India and indo-gangetic plains who are not near sea Or on the banks of any big river.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Kanson »

Atri wrote:what about Srirangapatanam?
The entire town is enclosed by the river Kaveri to form an island. So roughly it comes under the definition of Port City. And it could be an aberration of the meaning as it changes with time and land.
Pattan is sanskrit derivative word similar to "pura" which means fortified city. There are many "Pattans" in inlands both peninsular India and indo-gangetic plains who are not near sea Or on the banks of any big river.
I'm not averse to your idea. What makes an information to knowledge is the adequate data to support that information. Pls show me the data. And have you counted the no. of patnams in the pennisular India and taken the statistics of how many are there in the costal region and how many on the river banks and how many are just fortified city ? And how is pattan become derivative word ? You can come with necessary statistics and i'm willing to learn...
Last edited by Kanson on 24 Jun 2010 19:16, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Kanson »

Sanku wrote:
Kanson wrote:It is not a Sanskrit word but of Sounth Indian Origin. I guess it is Tamil.
Why does there have to be a contradiction?
What contradiction you are talking about?
Why cant a Sanskrit word be already in use when Sanskrit was first formalized?

Why cant it be in South?
I dont know you tell me.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Kanson »

Pat

In Haryana/Punjab, orobably 'rock' or 'plateau' from Sanskrit prastar, e.g. Panipat, Sonepat

Patnam

From southern India, means port, e.g. Masulipattanam

Prastha

From Sanskrit, means established, e.g., Indraprastha

Pur/Puri/Pura/Ppuram/Pore

From Sanskrit, means town (walled city - may also mean a city with a citadel or palace), e.g. Kanpur, Thiruvananthapuram

http://www.linterland.com/core/rurallandscape/10.htm
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Atri »

Kanson wrote:
Atri wrote:what about Srirangapatanam?
The entire town is enclosed by the river Kaveri to form an island. So roughly it comes under the definition of Port City. And it could be an aberration of the meaning as it changes with time and land.
Pattan is sanskrit derivative word similar to "pura" which means fortified city. There are many "Pattans" in inlands both peninsular India and indo-gangetic plains who are not near sea Or on the banks of any big river.
I'm not averse to your idea. What makes an information to knowledge is the adequate data to support that information. Pls show me the data. And have you counted the no. of patnams in the pennisular India and taken the statistics of how many are there in the costal region and how many on the river banks and how many are just fortified city ? And how is pattan become derivative word ? You can come with necessary statistics and i'm willing to learn...
good point..

here are few I can think of in spur of moment..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattan,_Baramula_district - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Rajasthan - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Chhattisgarh - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Maharashtra - on banks of river koyna. Although I don't think Koyna is navigable.. but yes, a city on banks of river.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Madhya_Pradesh -not on river bank, but in jabalpur district where the narmada flows.. still, quite far away from river.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Lalitpur - on the banks of bagmati river - a small port similar to one on koyna.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Gujarat - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Baitadi - no port

Pattan - jharkhand - no port

Patan - MP - On banks of some small seasonal river.

Patan - Ramgargh - no port
Pat

In Haryana/Punjab, orobably 'rock' or 'plateau' from Sanskrit prastar, e.g. Panipat, Sonepat
pat is the "Apabhramsha" of Prastha. Pandavprastha became panipa (पानिपत), Swarnaprastha became sonepat (सोनीपत). This "pat" has nothing to do with Pattan (पट्टण), Patan (पाटण, पटण), pattanam (पट्टणम्).. It is ट in patan and त in panipat... not related to each other..
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Kanson »

Atri wrote:
Kanson wrote: I'm not averse to your idea. What makes an information to knowledge is the adequate data to support that information. Pls show me the data. And have you counted the no. of patnams in the pennisular India and taken the statistics of how many are there in the costal region and how many on the river banks and how many are just fortified city ? And how is pattan become derivative word ? You can come with necessary statistics and i'm willing to learn...
good point..

here are few I can think of in spur of moment..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattan,_Baramula_district - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Rajasthan - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Chhattisgarh - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Maharashtra - on banks of river koyna. Although I don't think Koyna is navigable.. but yes, a city on banks of river.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Madhya_Pradesh -not on river bank, but in jabalpur district where the narmada flows.. still, quite far away from river.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Lalitpur - on the banks of bagmati river - a small port similar to one on koyna.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Gujarat - no port

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patan,_Baitadi - no port

Pattan - jharkhand - no port

Patan - MP - On banks of some small seasonal river.

Patan - Ramgargh - no port
Pat

In Haryana/Punjab, orobably 'rock' or 'plateau' from Sanskrit prastar, e.g. Panipat, Sonepat
pat is the "Apabhramsha" of Prastha. Pandavprastha became panipa (पानिपत), Swarnaprastha became sonepat (सोनीपत). This "pat" has nothing to do with Pattan (पट्टण), Patan (पाटण, पटण), pattanam (पट्टणम्).. It is ट in patan and त in panipat... not related to each other..
At present we will leave the relation of this word to Sanskrit and let find only the meaning of the word, whether it relates to the port city or fortified city.
Of the 10 names listed there are three or four places that can have the meaning of Port City. Why not other places could have been previously along the river banks or the rivers along that path might have been dried?... For ex.


Now take the names of Patanam in Pennisular India and try to see where they are located...you can start from Orissa/Andhra border...
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by karthik »

Dear SvenLittkowski, I appreciate your effort in trying to learn and write about Indian History but may i ask what is your qualification in this field and how long you have been involved in it? Pardon me but the market place is littered with foreign writers on Indian History who have written half baked and biased accounts of Indian history which is often made to look inferior to western or europen history when indian maritime history is far older than anything in the west! So i suggest you not write a book if you are not sure because it is unjust for an entire nation if its hurriedly written for self-aggrandizement or vanity!

The word Navigation itself originates from the indian word Nau(Naval or ocean) Gethi(destiny or direction) Nau-gethi=Navigation. Navigation as an science started in the Indus Valley nearly 5,000 years ago. Just like the numeral system which is often given credit to Arabs for its invention much of our history has been plagiarized! I am a little worried if credit is not given where its due.

Thank you.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by brihaspati »

pattan : can have various roots. It is available all along the coast - and we have mention of "Prabhasha-pattan" (the Somnath coast) . My personal candidate is pota-sthan. Pota==vessel, especially sea-river going vessel, for example a common Sanskrit usage is Arnaba-pota - ocean/sea-going vessel. sthan is well-known to be transmuted to "than" and "tan". So the combination could mean where, potas or ships "stayed" or "put up". Actually my suspicion gorws stronger because the native/regional pronounciation uses the softer Indic "t" mostly rather than the harder "Anglic" "t" implied in the English version. The Sanskrit "pota" is spelled with the softer "ta'". The Sanskritic "sthanam" will transmute to "thanam" or "tanam" too.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by karthik »

brihaspati wrote:pattan : can have various roots. It is available all along the coast - and we have mention of "Prabhasha-pattan" (the Somnath coast) . My personal candidate is pota-sthan. Pota==vessel, especially sea-river going vessel, for example a common Sanskrit usage is Arnaba-pota - ocean/sea-going vessel. sthan is well-known to be transmuted to "than" and "tan". So the combination could mean where, potas or ships "stayed" or "put up". Actually my suspicion gorws stronger because the native/regional pronounciation uses the softer Indic "t" mostly rather than the harder "Anglic" "t" implied in the English version. The Sanskrit "pota" is spelled with the softer "ta'". The Sanskritic "sthanam" will transmute to "thanam" or "tanam" too.

In Tamil the word "Pattnam" or "Pattinam" is used for "City"! When someone says he is going to the city they use the word "Pattnam".

The word probably descends from the captial city "Patana"or "Patilaputra".Since Patna was the capital of India once,may be it descends from that?! The other etymology is that Pattnam means Port!
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by brihaspati »

The port is the sense in which I tried to connect from "pota-sthan" "pota-sthanam" - as the "resting place of sea-vessels". All the historical names are found typically more on the sea-front. The "Patna" usage is quite late, much later than the historical mention of the other "pattans" or "pattanams" usually. The sense of city or capital need not also be far away - for ancient port-cities could have been the centre of life and seat of power.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Lalmohan »

karthik - wouldn't it be better to encourage the man rather than assume he's going to do something? many modern writers are far more objective than the ones from even a few decades ago, never mind the 'old days'
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by brihaspati »

Sven,
you can get in touch with ASI. The marine archaeology unit can provide you with a lot of pointers.
The period you mention is too large. What is the scope of your book? How many pages do you envisage? Any particular focus - like technology, naval warfare, merchant shipping, naval infrastructure? International presence?
It may be more helpful if you provide a tentative outline.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by karthik »

Lalmohan wrote:karthik - wouldn't it be better to encourage the man rather than assume he's going to do something? many modern writers are far more objective than the ones from even a few decades ago, never mind the 'old days'
Everyone has some bias of some sort and a history buff definitely has some bias to his own history! Even a great source like Michel Woods who made the documentary "The Story of India" on BBC goes out of the way to claim Hinduisms was born in Tajikistan!! When in reality every verse and title in the scriptures refers to cities and towns in India! Both the Harrapan and Indus are Dravidian civilizations as its evident with the statues! There was no single Aryan race swarming in, it was an step by step migration of various invaders we see today as the many shades of brown skin in India with different clan names! Moreover he does not seem to know anyone in India or ASI or even History so it sort of seem meaningless!! So i rather not encourage anyone to say something that they are not sure off and put in down in history and regret later.
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by SwamyG »

On Pattanam. I gather Pattanam originally mean a place where the river falls into the sea.
Thengapattanam, Kadiapattinam, Kaveripattinam, Vizhagapattinam, Masulipatnam, Nagapattinam, Kalingapatanam, Valiapatam and Musiri Pattanam are all wellknown towns (Pattanam) on the east and west coast of India.A place where a river falls into the sea is pathanam / ghat. A river harbour, an estuary, a seaport is azhimugham. There are 18 river harbours in Kerala, says Keralolppathi. An opening into the sea is azhimugham. The place where the lagoon joins the sea, river is azhi- the river mouth. Azhivikkural is the exact river mouth. We have so many such river mouths. But all pathanams are not pattanams. What makes a pathanam, a pattanam is the presence of a port.
Source: http://www.boloji.com/environment/57.htm
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Kanson »

>>A place where a river falls into the sea is pathanam. What makes a pathanam, a pattanam is the presence of a port.
Are we sure about this...I have some feeling...anyway if everybody agrees..then no problem..
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Kanson »

brihaspati wrote:pattan : can have various roots. It is available all along the coast - and we have mention of "Prabhasha-pattan" (the Somnath coast) . My personal candidate is pota-sthan. Pota==vessel, especially sea-river going vessel, for example a common Sanskrit usage is Arnaba-pota - ocean/sea-going vessel. sthan is well-known to be transmuted to "than" and "tan". So the combination could mean where, potas or ships "stayed" or "put up". Actually my suspicion gorws stronger because the native/regional pronounciation uses the softer Indic "t" mostly rather than the harder "Anglic" "t" implied in the English version. The Sanskrit "pota" is spelled with the softer "ta'". The Sanskritic "sthanam" will transmute to "thanam" or "tanam" too.
So..we can come to the conclusion that it means Port City ?

Going into this route of deduction...i have a problem...Pota-stan could mean place where the vessel stays..naturally it could be harbour/port. But there is no way you can call the port as city...for ex...Bombay port is a port...but you wont call the Bombay city as Bombay port. If we go by the history of way modern ports were created...ports came first and later city formed around it.. So this Pota-stan could mean Port and not necessarily a City.
brihaspati
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by brihaspati »

Yes, the city is not necessarily a direct connection from possible etymology. But word-meanings evolve over time and association. So initial mere ports could have gathered the sense of "city/capital" in later connotation.

SwamyG garu,
I had thought of that and explored it too. But I was stuck with the existence of two different pronunciations - attinam and attanam. Any explanation?
Rahul M
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Re: Maritime History of India

Post by Rahul M »

I was going through an asiatic society volume on urbansation of ancient India and the word pattan is taken to mean port or port-city. the author spends quite some time on awarding definitions to various terms used in literature and architectural treatises through the periods.

OT : b'ji, tweaked permissions to give you admin acces to the blog we spoke about, could you take charge ? :)
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