China Military Watch

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 27 Dec 2010 09:10

awwwwww

well... pics are getting clearer now. PLA likes to reveal their secrets in sequels like Harry Potter 1/2/3/4....

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Dec 2010 09:21

^^ That pics looks like a mockup.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 27 Dec 2010 09:28

Yeah, even I wanted to believe that. But look at its scale. For a mock-up, its a pretty real looking fella.

PLA always does this. They follow the old Soviet style phy-ops techniques. Always keep everyone guessing with stupid looking PSed pics

Also, their nosecone and canopy design does match design of their simulators. But if its a 5th Gen fighter pilot will have a HMDS. Then why use a HUD?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 09:30

I think if we provoke Chinese internet jingos enough - the photos will get clearer and clearer every day. Amazing how the clarity of photos improves with the quantity of skepticism

The port tailfin remains turned out of neutral position but the background imagery has changed. So we are supposed to understand that there are a lot of locations where Chinese can take blurry cellphone images of this thing while it is mover around from location to location.

The yellow ladder and while thingy next to the port mainwheel remain in position. Only the background has moved - Maybe this is what "High speed trials?" means

.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 27 Dec 2010 09:38

Sid the Chinese are pretty good at creating full scale mockups , they had created F-117 full scale mockup perhaps to study it but check this.

Luoyang Nighthawk

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 09:42

I for one promise to be impressed when some Chinese "5th gen" plane takes to the air. But I must point out that what is unique about the F-35 is what is NOT visible. 5th gen is characterised by the sensors and electronics and super-efficient engines. The shape and external configuration are only one aspect - perhaps the easiest.

songfeihong · Post by **songfeihong** » 27 Dec 2010 10:02

It is normal for Chinese to bash India on Chinese forums and China basing here by Indians. But this Christmas, it was different when India rocket failed. Why? Because the new bird is much much more exciting than that. Anyway, you can still find some one applaud India for the big firecracker. A really good Christmas for Chinese military fans.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 10:14

songfeihong wrote:It is normal for Chinese to bash India on Chinese forums and China basing here by Indians. But this Christmas, it was different when India rocket failed. Why? Because the new bird is much much more exciting than that. Anyway, you can still find some one applaud India for the big firecracker. A really good Christmas for Chinese military fans.

Ah - so the criticism is beginning to hurt! Good. We're on the right track. Note that there is a whole thread to discuss Indian space failures - but its the discussion of Chinese lies and bluff that provokes an off topic reaction.

vina · Post by **vina** » 27 Dec 2010 10:22

songfeihong wrote:It is normal for Chinese to bash India on Chinese forums and China basing here by Indians. But this Christmas, it was different when India rocket failed. Why? Because the new bird is much much more exciting than that. Anyway, you can still find some one applaud India for the big firecracker. A really good Christmas for Chinese military fans.

.. Aww. The Indians atleast are brave enough to show the fireworks on live TV and everyone watches.

The Chinese are so scared sh*tless that they dont show even moon launches and launch of 1st Chinese astronaut from China live on TV, and of course, they give running commentaries of how the earth looked like and how the astronaut felt and everything while flying up..(er.. problem is the rocket had not taken off yet at all!

).

But all the same, nice fireworks wasn't it

. Everyone enjoyed the show, no one was hurt , there was clear safety zones and they destroyed the rocket before anyone was hurt.

Not so unfortunately in the land that invented fireworks. The "Long March" 4E or whatever, flew straight into a village and there was a spectacular fireworks display (obviously Chinese dont believe in range safety and destruct of vehicles going away from trajectory.. It is Chinese of course, so it must always fly in the exact part as set in Chailman Mao's lil red book) and the poor village was treated to a lot of funerals along with the firework display. Of course, in the great open world of China, no one will know how many were killed ,maimed ,scarred and badly burnt and what was the scale of destruction, no photos/videos whatsoever, none.. all cleaned up by the "gleat ploretalian revolution's leading lights of transparency".

Oh.. And this is what Wiki has to say about this..Tutt.tutt. Now now, go about cleaning up wiki please to show the "real truth"

On January 26, 1995, a Long March 2E rocket veered off course two seconds after take-off from Xichang space center and exploded, killing at least six on the ground. On February 14, 1996, a similar failure during the launch of Intelsat 708 a top the Long March 3B rocket resulted in an estimated 500 casualties .[citation needed] The rocket veered severely off course right after clearing the launch tower and landed in a rural village. Following the disaster, foreign media were sequestered in a bunker for five hours (Chailman Meow would have approved from the heavens)while, some have alleged, the Chinese military attempted to 'clean up' the damage. Officials later blamed the failure on an "unexpected gust of wind" (yeah..right. unexpected winds blow.. how terrible huh?)[1] Xinhua News Agency eventually reported 57 deaths.[citation needed]

chand · Post by **chand** » 27 Dec 2010 10:27

If it is a mockup, China will lose face even more when everything is settled. Nobody is that stupid just to draw some attention. That is why i believe it is true stuff.

manum · Post by **manum** » 27 Dec 2010 10:32

songfeihong wrote:It is normal for Chinese to bash India on Chinese forums and China basing here by Indians. But this Christmas, it was different when India rocket failed. Why? Because the new bird is much much more exciting than that. Anyway, you can still find some one applaud India for the big firecracker. A really good Christmas for Chinese military fans.

yup Indian rockets fail, Indian planes take their own time to get inducted...and Chinese never fail, never get delayed, always before time...flying in the air...
China land don't have gravity...everyone agrees...

Lora Hirschberg · Post by **Lora Hirschberg** » 27 Dec 2010 11:01

haha, as a Chinese, I am glad to see all your comments are full of jealousy

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 11:05

playfish wrote:haha, as a Chinese, I am glad to see all your comments are full of jealousy

I am happy that we have cheered you up. The fact that you have to come on here and make that post is an interesting indicator of your state of mind. You are angry enough to come here and say "I am happy. You are jealous"

How transparent some of you guys are, apart from the fact that piskology is fun.

amit · Post by **amit** » 27 Dec 2010 11:15

^^^^^

Wow, this thread is fun!

Look at what's crawling out of the woodwork! Doc, your antibiotic seemed to have had the necessary effect!

Arunkumar · Post by **Arunkumar** » 27 Dec 2010 11:16

vina wrote:
songfeihong wrote:It is normal for Chinese to bash India on Chinese forums and China basing here by Indians. But this Christmas, it was different when India rocket failed. Why? Because the new bird is much much more exciting than that. Anyway, you can still find some one applaud India for the big firecracker. A really good Christmas for Chinese military fans.
.. Aww. The Indians atleast are brave enough to show the fireworks on live TV and everyone watches.
.........
On January 26, 1995, a Long March 2E rocket veered off course two seconds after take-off from Xichang space center and exploded, killing at least six on the ground. On February 14, 1996, a similar failure during the launch of Intelsat 708 a top the Long March 3B rocket resulted in an estimated 500 casualties .[citation needed] The rocket veered severely off course right after clearing the launch tower and landed in a rural village. Following the disaster, foreign media were sequestered in a bunker for five hours (Chailman Meow would have approved from the heavens)while, some have alleged, the Chinese military attempted to 'clean up' the damage. Officials later blamed the failure on an "unexpected gust of wind" (yeah..right. unexpected winds blow.. how terrible huh?)[1] Xinhua News Agency eventually reported 57 deaths.[citation needed]

Here is the video of the same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_EnrVf9u8s

The scale of destruction is awful. The video clearly shows how the rocket just after clearing the launch tower takes a big turn (brahmos comes to mind) and disappears into dark. Next the footage shows large scale destruction in the village.
songfeihong hope comlades dont become "hong" with anger on watching this video.

hong == red in chinese.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 27 Dec 2010 11:26

Ok... some more chit chat on this plane (from other forums). Some say this plane might be powered by AL-117S (maybe in the prototype phase). Doesn't make any sense though.

playfish wrote:haha, as a Chinese, I am glad to see all your comments are full of jealousy

lol.. not a good way to say hello. No wonder you got PAWNED by Shiv.

Lora Hirschberg · Post by **Lora Hirschberg** » 27 Dec 2010 11:35

Arunkumar wrote:
......

Here is the video of the same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_EnrVf9u8s

The scale of destruction is awful. The video clearly shows how the rocket just after clearing the launch tower takes a big turn (brahmos comes to mind) and disappears into dark. Next the footage shows large scale destruction in the village.
songfeihong hope comlades dont become "hong" with anger on watching this video.

hong == red in chinese.

at the same time, when the disaster happen, what indians doing? hope the Arjun tank becoming a real one?

Lora Hirschberg · Post by **Lora Hirschberg** » 27 Dec 2010 11:38

Sid wrote:Ok... some more chit chat on this plane (from other forums). Some say this plane might be powered by AL-117S (maybe in the prototype phase). Doesn't make any sense though.

playfish wrote:haha, as a Chinese, I am glad to see all your comments are full of jealousy
lol.. not a good way to say hello. No wonder you got PAWNED by Shiv.

yeah, this is my first visiting. maybe not a good manner. but some guys who doesn't face the truth seems not friendly. so I treat it in same way.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 27 Dec 2010 11:53

friends please do not feed the troll! He will be gone in a bit.

Dharma · Post by **Dharma** » 27 Dec 2010 12:00

What does not bend in 5 wont bend in 50...cant wait for the next mockup of the chinese lol

..If at all they come up with something,i cant wait to see their mop up as in the long march video posted little earlier...

.Chinese have not even learnt to copy and pass the exam if not learn and pass proper..all sound but no stuff...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Dec 2010 12:08

Austin wrote:^^ That pics looks like a mockup.

they will make it fly!

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 27 Dec 2010 12:40

manum wrote:
DavidD wrote:Is this the thread to debate the Chinese psychology? Not sure, but I'm not all that interested in that debate right now anyway. I don't really see a terribly big advantage or disadvantage with the way they're doing things, I just know that it's kinda exciting. I mean, girls do strip-teases for a reason, right?

As for the F-22 comparison, well it's been said many times over by witnesses that the front looks like the F-22, so it's really not all that surprising. With a large bubble canopy like that, I'm sure it's pretty natural to have reflections. I do some drawing myself on my free time, and that reflection on rounded glass objects is pretty characteristic(and kinda hard to draw ). I mean, what's next, are you gonna show me how both the F-22 and the JXX have wings and a fuselage?

I understand your mystique way of saying things behind it and also parallel similarity to existing established 5th gen...It's totally understandable that Chinese stuff is going to be mix-match of all the existing established designs with some reflection off course and added fog and blur...

what i know it's not gonna help, if anyone tells it matches this and that, its does, its chinese, blurred images, its chinese, its hoo-haa, its chinese...its propaganda, its chinese.

and if you saying you are finding it exciting, and optimistic in relation to history, that the plane is going to be revealed sooner or later, great but can we talk bit more sense about something else, than something almost doesn't exist and exists in bits and pieces of other designs.
Indians and almost all the world is shifting towards post-modern way of living, and being transparent...of achievements, capabilities and future. even Russians announce and verify through established sources...and if it is like, that one can not believe even what chinese government announces or doesn't, then where is the firm line...

No government announces everything, the difference is always in shades of grey. The Chinese government is just greyer than most.

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 27 Dec 2010 12:51

shiv wrote:I for one promise to be impressed when some Chinese "5th gen" plane takes to the air. But I must point out that what is unique about the F-35 is what is NOT visible. 5th gen is characterised by the sensors and electronics and super-efficient engines. The shape and external configuration are only one aspect - perhaps the easiest.

You'll have to be impressed pretty soon then, since the plane should take to the air within a few weeks(some even say days!)! Now, I'll mostly agree with you on the sensors/engines and such, but the most important and defining characteristic of a 5th gen plane is stealth, and the shape and external configuration go a long way in determining that. Also, I hope you're as critical about any information regarding the F-35's engine/sensors/electronics as you surely will be regarding the JXX's.

Also, my condolences with the trolls, though I don't know why you even bother replying to them

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 27 Dec 2010 13:40

http://www.andrewerickson.com/2010/12/c ... ioc/#_edn3

Willard: The anti-ship ballistic missile system in China has undergone extensive testing. An analogy using a Western term would be “initial operational capability (IOC),” whereby it has—I think China would perceive that it has—an operational capability now, but they continue to develop it. It will continue to undergo testing, I would imagine, for several more years.

Q: China has IOC?

A: You would have to ask China that, but as we see the development of the system, their acknowledging the system in open press reporting and the continued testing of the system, I would gauge it as about the equivalent of a U.S. system that has achieved IOC.

Q: China has already perfected the technology to fly that missile and also the sensor systems for targeting. Has the entire system integration been completed?

A: Typically, to have something that would be regarded as in its early operational stage would require that that system be able to accomplish its flight pattern as designed, by and large.

Q: But they have not conducted the actual flight test or the test to attack moving ships yet, have they?

A: We have not seen an over-water test of the entire system.

Q: But do you believe they already have that capability?

A: I think that the component parts of the anti-ship ballistic missile have been developed and tested.

IMO, they're just drumming up the Chinese threat. Since when did talking about a system become the equivalent of proof of IOC?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 27 Dec 2010 14:18

Playfish,

Is this a human sounding name??

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 27 Dec 2010 14:57

shiv wrote:Well Kanson - I can't dispute that you may be right. I will upload the photo later but at the end of the J-10s turn there is a flagpole that is visible for 0.83 sec (25 out of 30 frames per sec) The angle of the flagpole changes by 6 degrees in that 0.83 seconds indicating how much the camera is being rotated as it is panned. If the camera is rotating at more than 7 degrees per second then the perspective of the aircraft is also being rotated - so the turn can end up looking artificial, or artificially sharp. I have some videos in which the aircraft i have filmed looks like it is doing a loop although it is merely flying overhead - the camera rotation gives that impression.

I had seen that 2008 video long ago. I thought the J-10's performance was very very tame in that show.

2008 zhuhai event is witnessed by many people, the same J-10 performance was captured by many cameras and in different angles. We can always check the genuineness of the video but what can be said about the lone video which shows J-10 turning like a race car - the car reaches the bend in hi speed hit the brakes while approaching, tries to make the 180 deg turn as fast as possible with the momentum, partial skidding and differential braking and then speed up to complete the lap. Watching that video very much resembles like watching a car race.

Typhoon is too a canard delta with better T:W ratio, have we seen such a turn so far ?

Is 2010 event any better? Did we see any superlative performance as that of the lone J-10 turn ? No. Any airshows? No. In Serbian video posted by DavidD? No. But we have seen a sharp climb of J-10 immediately after take off in every shows. My Q is, if J-10 can make such super-duper turn - according to DavidD it is in 4 secs - why such performance was not shown or seen in any airshows nor in the Serbian video, if the super-duper sharp climb of J-10 can be seen everywhere ?

Serbian MoD video posted by DavidD.
http://www.mod.gov.rs/PHPFotogalerija/v ... ivanje.flv

SivaVijay · Post by **SivaVijay** » 27 Dec 2010 14:58

playfish wrote: at the same time, when the disaster happen, what indians doing? hope the Arjun tank becoming a real one?

disaster== loss of the rocket...

...Typical chinese line of thought....

amit · Post by **amit** » 27 Dec 2010 15:11

It's interesting to see the Good Cop, Bad Cop routine being played by the Chinese posters.

But I wonder if the Chand drone knows the Sanskrit meaning of his moniker? Chand, also another name for the Moon is used as a person name to indicate something that shinning. In this case I suppose something is shinning - stupidity!

I wonder if Chand is a combination of Chan D.? But this guy has been a lurker since 2004?

Goes to show how seriously BRF is taken by these drones. I wonder how many more sleeping IDs they have.

But folks have you noticed the fact that the Chinni fifth generation hype - at least on BRF - seems to have started after the deals were inked with Russia. Coincidence?

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 27 Dec 2010 15:44

DavidD wrote: You're completely missing my point. My point was that you CANNOT say that the J-10 is "far superior" with any sort of credible proof, but you've already decided that that's what I meant to say and that's affecting your interpretation of every argument I've made.

Good DavidD, if that is your stand. But this was your previous statement. which is slightly different from that the one you made.

DavidD wrote:As far as air superiority goes, trustworthy sources from the PLA indicate that even the J-10A is far superior, so I suppose it's logical to assume that the J-10B is even more so. Then again, we're back to the "credible proof" thing. You'll never get credible proof of the J-10 vs. Su-27 comparison, not in any way, so you're certainly free to believe what you want.

If suppose, if there is any notion of comparison between JF-17 Vs Su-27, no one other than Pakis is going to entertain any thought of saying JF-17 is better than Su-27, am i right?

Now you and Chinese posters here and everywhere created a situation of bringing J-10 to the Su-27 table as equals. On what basis? This PLA officer said this and this aviation expert said this and from leaked out information, this can do this and that...Whenever this was confronted to bring credible information, standard reply is to put up all unsupportable records quoting this gentleman or that and then say, J-10 is superior to Su-27 as per so and so, if you want, you believe, i cannot provide any proof. If possible the discussion is further stretched to say you can't say neither Su-27 is superior nor J-10 as inferior as there is no proof.

See how clever the argument has changed. From nowhere J-10 is considered as an equal to Su-27 to be discussed to see which is superior and i cannot say, J-10 is inferior becoz i dont have any proof.

I'm just calling out this standard reply & clever tactics. I'm just saying J-10 is inferior and should not be brought for any comparison with Su-27 just like JF-17 unless you or anyone come with specs of J-10. Simple.

Next time, if anyone here says, J-10 inferior to LCA or any aircraft, pls better come with the specs of J-10, their radar capabilities, so and so and to make a point. We all believe and accept if that is true. Hope I made myself clear.

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 27 Dec 2010 15:53

From the previously posted WaPo article:

Military strength eludes China, which looks overseas for arms

An engine China made for its Su-27 knock-off would routinely conk out after 30 hours whereas the Russian engines would need refurbishing after 400, Russian and Chinese experts said.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 16:01

DavidD wrote:[ Now, I'll mostly agree with you on the sensors/engines and such, but the most important and defining characteristic of a 5th gen plane is stealth, and the shape and external configuration go a long way in determining that.

Well this is a debatable topic for the simple reason that 5th generation is actually a slew of technologies with shape determined stealth being the oldest and best known of them - having first been developed by God (America) nearly 3 decades ago. Slinging munitions on the outside removes that stealth. Making room internally reduces the options and increases the size and drag of the plane. So the stealthy shape goes only so far. It makes for a deadly modern appearance though but that is not good enough.

I personally do not believe that "supercruise" per se is a big deal - with the real "big deal" here being aerodynamics that decrease drag and super efficient engines. Sensor fusion, passive sensors and ability to network is another aspect - and that is probably the most difficult part because you need other systems in place on the ground and in the air. And along with that - superb situational awareness and reduced pilot workload would go a long way towards making an aircraft truly 5th gen. The individual technologies that go into some of these things are not easy to acquire - especially the all aspect IR sensors, seamless AESA, and Blisk tech for engines. I don't even know what is used for IR now. It used to be Gallium arsenide and it now seems to be Indium arsenide or something. Add to that smart weapons and you have a 5 gen fighter

Tanaji · Post by **Tanaji** » 27 Dec 2010 17:13

Sid wrote:Ok... some more chit chat on this plane (from other forums). Some say this plane might be powered by AL-117S (maybe in the prototype phase). Doesn't make any sense though.
.

If this is true it is strange no? An unproven design (and a radical one at that) on a unproven engine...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 17:47

Tanaji wrote:
Sid wrote:Ok... some more chit chat on this plane (from other forums). Some say this plane might be powered by AL-117S (maybe in the prototype phase). Doesn't make any sense though.
.
If this is true it is strange no? An unproven design (and a radical one at that) on a unproven engine...

Saar before we go that far I have one minor question onlee. If the plane is not already using the F117S then how was the high speed taxi trial done? Was it dragon-fart? 4th gen technology like FADEC requires that the engine be in place inside a plane rather than inside a bluff or a dream.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 18:36

Hellooooooo?

I just mentioned FADEC. It appears to me that neither the J-10 nor the 4.9999999999999999 gen Bundaar actually have FADEC.

How embarrassing.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Dec 2010 18:38

It is normal for Chinese to bash India on Chinese forums and China basing here by Indians. But this Christmas, it was different when India rocket failed. Why? Because the new bird is much much more exciting than that. Anyway, you can still find some one applaud India for the big firecracker. A really good Christmas for Chinese military fans.

Old Chinese saying: Failures are better than lies.

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 27 Dec 2010 18:48

songfeihong wrote:It is normal for Chinese to bash India on Chinese forums and China basing here by Indians. But this Christmas, it was different when India rocket failed. Why? Because the new bird is much much more exciting than that. Anyway, you can still find some one applaud India for the big firecracker. A really good Christmas for Chinese military fans.

Then enjoy this chinese firecracker which killed 500 people

Raghavendra · Post by **Raghavendra** » 27 Dec 2010 18:52

playfish wrote:at the same time, when the disaster happen, what indians doing? hope the Arjun tank becoming a real one?

Arjun is already inducted, how come you dont know?

oh wait the chinese dont know becoz your masters censor google and wont reveal the truth to their slave comrades

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 27 Dec 2010 20:11

Hmm, maybe the Chinese think its better to spend say 15 years on a aircraft project where they don't have the underling technology (or at least to the level required) rather than spending say 5-10 years on the tech. till they reach the level where they can start a full-fledged "next generation" project and spend the next 10 years to deliver the aircraft.
Any way I am reminded of something about stealth that some Americans keep repeating "stealth is 80% is the shape(ing)"(or something like that) , and what you need to do really well in this sphere is mostly supercomputing power and associated human resources. And they are pretty good at that.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 20:19

News from Dec 2010
http://www.comhaha.com/blog/578060-russ ... -in-china/

LONDON Dec. 6 report, according to Russia's "Independent Military Review" magazine reported on December 3, the Russian expert Vladimir - Shcherbakov author pointed out that Sino-Russian military technical cooperation in the field of the temporary effect of intellectual property protection agreement zero on the occasion, Beijing again expressed on the procurement of Russian weapons, military equipment and special equipment, active interest in Moscow should be particularly careful to prevent the other party to study the appropriate technology, then a similar generic products compete with Russia, especially in aspects of aviation engines.

Not long ago Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov's visit to China, the Chinese military leadership announced its intention to purchase a number of 117S aero engine, S-400 air defense missile systems and military transport aircraft Il--476. Participated in the just-concluded Russian 117S engines Zhuhai Airshow production company representative confirmed that the Chinese side of the engine does have a higher interest. 117S product, code-named AL-41F-1S, is the depth of the AL-31F on the basis of improvements developed from the double-bypass turbojet engine afterburner all the vectors. Compared with the prototype, and its thrust increased from the 12,500 kg 14,500 kg, the maintenance cycle from 1000 hours to 4000 hours, fuel consumption decreased by about 8%, the performance is sufficient to ensure the aircraft has a supersonic cruise speed. In summary, AL-41F-1S is very close to the 5th generation of engine performance, which was specifically developed for the Su -35 fighter can also be installed on other aircraft, particularly the assembly AL-31F engine aircraft.

AL-41F-1S new engine factory in the outskirts of Moscow, had a long test, on January 30, 2008 concluded successfully, all the established performance all been verified.August 2010 production began to vector-based supply of Su-35S fighter, the first batch of aircraft and equipment in 2011 the Russian Air Force. According to relevant agreements, the engine manufacturers in 2015 should be supplied to the aircraft 96 engines AL-41F-1S, to ensure that the assembly 48 fighters Su-35S. Procurement contract in 2009 during the Moscow air show by the Russian Defense Ministry and the signing of related businesses.
<snip>
Of course, the Chinese give up their military enterprises have been able to imitate the production of samples of Russian weapons and military equipment Russia will naturally unhappy. Examples of this abound, such as the Russian AL-31F engine, the Chinese experts in its aircraft engine and the use of careful study, the successful production of similar products, WS-10 "so the line" and in November 2008 debut at Zhuhai Air Show, is mainly used for assembly of the Chinese F -10, F-11B, F -15 fighter, but still inferior to the performance of temporary AL-31F. Another example is China's WS-13 "Tarzan" double bypass turbojet engine, a large number of applications engineers in the Russian RD-93 engines on the technical program, has been fitted to an FC-1 prototype, the test is still being . View individual reports from the foreign media, its performance is also inferior to RD-93, both in reliability or performance requirements in high. So China has decided to continue the acquisition of the Russian engine, the end of 2009 a new contract, procurement of 48 additional RD-93 engine, jointly developed by China and Pakistan for the assembly FC-1/JF-17 new fighter, which has already begun in some foreign markets and Russian-made MiG -29 competition.

Chinese production of Su-27SK fighter license issue also can not help but mention.According to the 1995 signing of the total amount of about 25 million contract, the Chinese have been assembled using components supplied by the Russian Su-27SK 200 technology licensing, but no re-export to third countries the right to sell. Prior to China in 1992-1996 purchased 36 Su-27SK single-seat and 12 two-seat fighter Su-27UBK, then again in 1999-2002 purchased 28 Su-27UBK. However, in licensed production of Su-27SK, the relevant contracts have not already done half, China has rejected Russia's Su-27SKM improved cooperation proposals, and in 2002 announced its intention to develop a similar product a few years, self-produced imitations F-11B.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2010 20:21

http://community.active.com/people/yhk1 ... ngine-117s

Russia said that China hopes to purchase Russian-made S400 missile engine 117S

It is reported that China proposed to purchase 117S aero engine (AL-31F Improved models currently being used in flight tests of Su -35 fighter) and the latest Russian S-400 air defense system of the request. In addition,

China also a new generation of military transport aircraft Il--476 Russia expressed strong interest.The source also pointed out that Russia plans to issue to provide 117S engine to meet China's request. He also said, S-400 may export after 2017, because Russia's industrial system is still not enough production capacity,