Bharat Rakshak

World over the AFs must be stupid then to sport medium and heavy fighters with more pylons then ! They should all have only light fighters !

Either you accept that one can kill many and thus reason out not to join numbers game OR as you said single pilot gets single kills and match upto their numbers with your own massive numbers. Take your pick.

As I said before, 10 or 12 aams/plane are just extreme examples being talked to make an idea appear easily unacceptable. For the sake of discussion here can we stick to 6 aams ?

But your point is simply not to build the ability to carry 6 and have NO provisions for emergency ! This is unreasonable.

A US Air Force (USAF) F-16C Fighting Falcon aircraft, 177th Fighter Wing (FW), Atlantic City International Airport, New Jersey (NJ), drops away above the USA from a USAF KC-135R Stratotanker, 157th Air Refueling Wing (ARW), Pease Air National Guard Base (ANGB), New Hampshire (NH) after being refueled. This is a Combat Air Patrol (CAP) tanker mission in support of Operation NOBLE EAGLE. The F-16 is armed with AIM-120A Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) on the wingtips and AIM-9 Sidewinder Missiles on the outboard pylons. In addition, it has two 370-gallon External Fuel Tanks for long loitering flight time. (U.S. Air Force photo/Staff Sgt. Dawn Finniss)

underside view of a Fighter Squadron 41 (VF-41) F-14A Tomcat aircraft on a Combat Air Patrol (CAP) during Operation Desert Storm gulf war. The aircraft is carrying four AIM-7 Sparrow missiles under its fuselage and two AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles on each wing pylon.

Have you managed to find out how many missiles per sortie were carried on average for NATO/US CAP?

If we are going to stick to 6 AAM - what aircraft are you talking about. MiG 21? Tejas? Su-30? JF-17? J-10? F-16? Mirage 2000? F/A 18? There is no escape from power and weight restrictions.

It makes sense to carry more fuel in drop tanks and drop them for combat, keeping your plane light and agile rather than hyper arming them with AAM like what is done for propaganda photos.

Reasoning is no substitute for the hard reality that history forces down one's throat. It is mostly one kill per mission. At the most 2. Even with fighters with the capacity to carry 6 or more missiles. No sidestepping reality.

Lots of photos of aircraft on strike missions carrying self defence AAMs.

I think for a buyer's(until now) Air Force like ours the size of the inventory might be a factor as well i.e. number of missiles of a particular type, it's shelf life and the life on a pylon might govern the loadout of an AC during peacetime (anyways afaik most of the times they use training rounds).

Since you believe it is one kill per mission, are you able to execute mission rates several multiples of that of rivals in the same time frame to knock out superior numbers ? And they are going to wait and come in appropriate batch sizes and suitable arrival rate to give you time to fly down and replenish another 2 aams for next sortie !!

Numbers game you start railing out against
then
Missiles per plane we know your stand
then
Mission rates or sortie rate possible- I am assuming equal or ours may be marginally better not much. Availability should depend on maintenance, spares inventory, condition etc.

So unless you believe our sortie rates can be multiples of that of our rivals, what madarsa balance are you using ? to counterbalance the force projected on us.

the shallow green waters of andaman sea and south china sea are not really suitable for larger SSNs.

Since the only new information you are able to bring on board is a query about my alma mater which you believe is a madarsa, the weight and validity of your argument has not changed but its direction has veered off topic.

Cross posting from Indian Navy thread

This stirs up a stupid sounding query in my mind. Say its war time, and China sends a large SSN in our waters and gets grounded in those shallow Andaman waters and our P8s detect it and ask them to surrender. If the *deleted* refuse, is it wise to bomb the SSN out considering they're in our waters and it would be detrimental to our environment and populace if anything happens to the reactor inside the SSN?

I'd have a similar query about a nuclear bomber like B1 lancer flying over our territory? Would it be wise to shoot it down?

1/2 boy 1/2 man


The average age of the army man is 19 years.
He is a short haired, tight-muscled kid who, under normal circumstances is considered by society as half man, half boy. Not yet dry behind the ears, not old enough to buy a beer, but old enough to die for his country. He never really cared much for work and he would rather wax his own car than wash his father's, but he has never collected unemployment dole either.

He's a recent college graduate; he was probably an average student from one of the Kendriya Vidyalayas, pursued some form of sport activities, drives a ten year old jalopy, and has a steady girlfriend that either broke up with him when he left, or swears to be waiting when he returns from half a world away. He listens to rock and roll or hip -hop or country or gazals or swing and a 155mm howitzer.


He is 5 or 7 kilos lighter now than when he was at home because he is working or fighting the insurgents or standing gaurd on the icy Himalayas from before dawn to well after dusk or he is at Mumbai engaging the terrorists. He has trouble spelling, thus letter writing is a pain for him, but he can field strip a rifle in 30 seconds and reassemble it in less time in the dark. He can recite to you the nomenclature of a machine gun orgrenade launcher and use either one effectively if he must.


He digs foxholes and latrines and can apply first aid like a professional.
He can march until he is told to stop, or stop until he is told to march.
He obeys orders instantly and without hesitation, but he is not without spirit or individual dignity. His pride and self-respect, he does not lack.

He is self-sufficient.
He has two sets of combat dress: he washes one and wears the other.
He keeps his water bottle full and his feet dry.
He sometimes forgets to brush his teeth, but never to clean his rifle. He can cook his own meals, mend his own clothes, and fix his own hurts.

If you're thirsty, he'll share his water with you; if you are hungry, his food. He'll even split his ammunition with you in the midst of battle when you run low.


He has learned to use his hands like weapons and weapons like they were his hands.
He can save your life - or take it, because that is his job.
He will often do twice the work of a civilian, draw half the pay, and still find ironic humor in it all.
He has seen more suffering and death than he should have in his short lifetime.

He has wept in public and in private, for friends who have fallen in combat and is unashamed.


He feels every note of theJana Gana Mana vibrate through his body while at rigid attention, while tempering the burning desire to 'square-away' those around him who haven't bothered to stand, remove their hands from their pockets, or even stop talking.


In an odd twist, day in and day out, far from home, he defends their right to be disrespectful.
Just as did his Father, Grandfather, and Great-grandfather, he is paying the price for our freedom.

Beardless or not, he is not a boy.
He is your nation's Fighting Man that has kept this country free and defended your right to Freedom. He has experienced deprivation and adversity, and has seen his buddies falling to bullets and maimed and blown.

But,


He has asked nothing in return, except our acknowledgement of his existence and understanding of his human needs.
Remember him, always, for he has earned our respect and admiration with his blood.
And now we even have women over there in danger, doing their part in this tradition of going to War when our nation calls us to do so.


As you go to bed tonight, remember this shot. . ..
A short lull, a little shade and a picture of loved ones in their helmets.

Prayer wheel for our military... please don't break it Please send this on after a short prayer.

Prayer Wheel


'Lord, hold our Indian Army in your loving hands.
Protect them as they protect us.
Bless them and their families for the selfless acts they perform
for us in our time of need.

Amen.'


When you receive this, please stop for a moment and say a prayer
for our soldier, sailors , and airmen , in all frontiers
There is nothing attached...
This can be very powerful...
Of all the gifts you could give a Soldier, Sailor, or Airman,
prayer is the very best one.

Having said that yes operation in littoral waters comes with a risk of higher chances of being detected as against operating in midst of Indian ocean.

i have a newbie doubt.... after NDA/IMA/OTA.. in what manner cadets are get commisioned to different regiments... is it kind of random or each regiment have any criteria...?

is it possible to have a radar pod for planes without radars such as trainers etc and sling them with a2g munitions and bvr aams ?

Though the Mirage F1s were the most modern of the fleet, having been delivered from 1977 onwards, they were the primary element of South Africa's air defence and strike fleet and to withdraw them for an upgrade would have left an unacceptable gap in its air defence and strike capability.

A radar pod would be something intermediate between a litening pod dia and a drop tank dia.

I was doing a comparison of the base diameter of the nosecone of the Bundaar, J-10 ad Tejas and got a figure of something like 80-100 cm for all (can't recall the exact figure)

I am guessing that at least a 50 cm diameter would be achievable for something slung in a pod - maybe smaller for a trainer.

Detection range, fighter-size target, tail-on 60 km

The Su-35 has also a small radar installed inside the sting between the engines and looking aft. Such an idea has been developing in Russia since the mid-1980s: rear-looking radars were installed on several prototypes of the 'old' Su-27M/Su-35 (N012 radar designed by NIIR Rassvet), to the MiG 1.42 (Rassvet N015) and to the Su-27IB (V005 radar by Leninets). At the same time, tests were made of air-to-air missiles launched rearward. The interest in this concept declined and only came back in the early 2000s. The Tikhomirov NIIP institute suggests for this purpose its passive phased-array radar Osa and is expected to announce a new active phased-array radar of this class within the next few months.

I have no idea if anyone has attempted this.

The selection of a radar's operating frequency is generally the result of a trade-off analysis that considers desired detection range, weather and clutter environment, available aperture size, properties of targets of interest and cost of RF components.

Radar performance must first be quantified on the basis of propagation efficiency in various media (air, foliage and ground) with respect to the required detection range. The general principle is that the lower the frequency, the more efficient the propagation of radio waves through the medium. In the presence of obscurants, propagation is most favorable when the RF wavelength is much larger than the particle size composing the propagation medium. This is why radars tend to have much better performance than optical systems through smoke, dust, fog and rain.

However, using a lower frequency dictates a larger antenna for a given angular resolution.

the frequency of the radio carrier wave will also have some
affect on how the radar beam propagates. At the low frequency extremes, radar beams
will refract in the atmosphere and can be caught in "ducts" which result in long
ranges. At the high extreme, the radar beam will behave much like visible light and
travel in very straight lines. Very high frequency radar beams will suffer high
losses and are not suitable for long range systems.

The frequency will also affect the beam-width. For the same antenna size,
a low frequency radar will have a larger beam-width than a high frequency one.
In order to keep the beam-width constant, a low frequency radar will need a large
antenna.

E/F-Band (S-Band Radar)

The atmospheric attenuation is higher than in D-Band. Radar sets need a considerably higher transmitting power than in lower frequency ranges to achieve a good maximum range. As example given the Medium Power Radar (MPR) with a pulse power of up to 20 MW. In this frequency range the influence of weather conditions is higher than in D-band. Therefore a couple of weather radars work in E/F-Band, but more in subtropic and tropic climatic conditions, because here the radar can see beyond a severe storm.

Special Airport Surveillance Radars (ASR) are used at airports to detect and display the position of aircraft in the terminal area with a medium range up to 50…60 NM (≈100 km). An ASR detects aircraft position and weather conditions in the vicinity of civilian and military airfields. The designator S-Band (contrary to L-Band) is good as mnemonic rhyme as smaller antenna or shorter range.
G- Band (C-Band Radar)

In G- Band there are many mobile military battlefield surveillance, missile-control and ground surveillance radar sets with short or medium range. The size of the antennas provides an excellent accuracy and resolution, but the relatively small-sized antennas don't bother a fast relocation. The influence of bad weather conditions is very high. Therefore air-surveillance radars use an antenna feed with circular polarization often. This frequency band is predetermined for most types of weather radar used to locate precipitation in temperate zone like Europe.
I/J- Band (X- and Ku- Band Radars)

In this frequency-band (8 to 12 GHz) the relationship between used wave length and size of the antenna is considerably better than in lower frequency-bands. The I/J- Band is a relatively popular radar band for military applications like airborne radars for performing the roles of interceptor, fighter, and attack of enemy fighters and of ground targets. A very small antenna size provides a good performance. Missile guidance systems at I/J- band are of a convenient size and are, therefore, of interest for applications where mobility and light weight are important and very long range is not a major requirement.

This frequency band is wide used for maritime civil and military navigation radars. Very small and cheap antennas with a high rotation speed are adequate for a fair maximum range and a good accuracy. Slotted waveguide and small patch antennas are used as radar antenna, under a protective radome mostly.

This frequency band is also popular for spaceborne or airborne imaging radars based on Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) both for military electronic intelligence and civil geographic mapping. A special Inverse Synthetic Aperture Radar (ISAR) is in use as a maritime airborne instrument of pollution control.
K- Band (K- and Ka- Band Radars)

The higher the frequency, the higher is the atmospheric absorption and attenuation of the waves. Otherwise the achievable accuracy and the range resolution rise too. Radar applications in this frequency band provide short range, very high resolution and high data renewing rate. In ATM these radar sets are called Surface Movement Radar (SMR) or (as p. o.) Airport Surface Detection Equipment (ASDE). Using of very short transmitting pulses of a few nanoseconds affords a range resolution, that outline of the aircraft can be seen on the radars display.

Shiv, the plan is to mount it on the spine of the Mig-29k, one mount point behind the 2nd pilot and the 2nd mount point somewhere close to the tail piece, not as a under slung pod

Brahmos required the MKI airframe be strengthened, so even the Mig-29k will have its weight limitations which can be worked on

the CABS radar is inclined vs the flight body and is mounted fairly high so the 2nd mount point can be designed to be folded while take-off and elevated above the tail height while in level/cruise flight

With the engines closely spaced relative the vehicle height, TVC might be helpful

Shiv, the plan is to mount it on the spine of the Mig-29k, one mount point behind the pilot and the 2nd mount point somewhere close to the tail piece, not as a under slung pod

probably a single seater, the 8-9 metres is like the length of the brahmos which is shown to easily fit between the intake-engine longitudinal on the MKI, so above shouldn't be a problem

It occurs to me that many active radar guided missiles right from the 1950s have had their own seeker and compact seekers are available for police cars and small boats. Why not use a missile seeker as a radar?

Pharaon is a new multifunction X-band (NATO I-/J-band) airborne fighter radar, designed to offer comprehensive air-to-air and air-to-ground capabilities. Pharaon is a relatively lightweight radar marketed as a nose fire-control radar for light fighters, or as the tail cone radar for heavy fighter aircraft.

N012 OKB: NIIR Rassvet Tail radar used on Su-35/37 operating at decimetric wavelengths which is installed in the long tail boom between the tail pipes. This radar forms part of the aircraft's defensive aids sub-systems suite (DASS) and warns the crew of approaching threats in the rear hemisphere as well as controlling active and passive jamming responses to such threats. Claimed to have a range of 50km for a 3 sq m RCS fighter, or 100km for a large aircraft. Scans 60° in azimuth and elevation.

Last of all, the rear boom of the Su-35BM, mentioned above, will also house a radar, smaller in size and facing to the rear. For now, the choice remains open. It is known that Sukhoi has already tested the N012 rear-facing radar of NIIR Rassvet of Ryazan on its Su-27M's, a simple alert device functioning in decimeter waves. The same Rassvet has tested the N015 radar on the MiG 1-42, in centimeter waves and capable of designating targets with missiles that can be fired to the rear.

Tikhomirov is already offering its Osa electronic scanning rear face radar and is announcing an active-antenna version of it for the end of the year. In the same category, Phazotron has had the Pharaoh (or Kopyo-F) radar in its product range for several years, and last April in Moscow presented a Kopyo-DL active-antenna version in the decimeter band, the caliber of which adapts to the rear boom of the Su-35.

And for stuff that goes above my head
http://www.radartutorial.eu/07.waves/wa04.en.html

Can someone please post the exact coordinates of places in PoK where Chinese construction is going on ?