Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Mar 2011 02:23

shiv wrote:Who's this newbie? Why am I reminded of 10,000 tons of mithai?

Please forgive this SDRE...making 10,000 tons of mithai takes time...

Singha wrote:AWOL but technically ok until the Nerpa docks in indian waters.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 13 Mar 2011 03:46

If you guys thought that (F-16 stuff) was funny, perhaps you all missed the data link problem the PAF faces, where the F-16 and J-17 cannot "talk" to each other. The network-centric solution is to have both relay to the ground, where they will perform real-time translation between the two systems and forward the message.

In 2011.

CISMOA.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 13 Mar 2011 05:41

^^ lol.. so much for their claim of creating a "Paki" data link to be used by super advanced Bunder and F-solah.

that means a Saab AWAC (working on Link-16) will have to talk to "Paki" ground station, which will talk to their bunder which might be flying right behind AWAC for air cover.

god is really great. as they will say "Allah o akbar".

sum · Post by **sum** » 13 Mar 2011 10:19

The network-centric solution is to have both relay to the ground, where they will perform real-time translation between the two systems and forward the message.

Do the Pakis have the expertise for this real time conversion stuff? Who will make the conversion systems for them, the AmirKhans or Chinese?

Drishyaman · Post by **Drishyaman** » 13 Mar 2011 12:11

sum wrote:
“We will take as many as they are willing to give,” said a diplomatic source when asked how many of these aircraft Pakistan was seeking.
Truely, the Paoks have mastered the art of " Allah ke naam pe dede baba"!!!

There is more humour in this thread than the Humour thread.

Can we add the word "Humour" in the name of this thread ?

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 14 Mar 2011 19:43

So, they want more F-bakhsheesh in spite of proclamations that the bundar is this, bundar is that. Speaks volumes about the bundar.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Mar 2011 20:05

same statement applies to J-10 which they claim to want to buy as the "high" end.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 14 Mar 2011 20:30

Well they will keep on asking more from US as long as US keeps giving them , even if they beg for 20 more and gets 10 more that zimply 10 more teens in their inventory and More is Merrier.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 15 Mar 2011 15:59

Cabinet OKs talks with China for six more submarines

The federal cabinet on Monday gave a go ahead to the Defence Ministry for holding talks for the purchase of six state-of-the-art submarines from China to boost its under-sea warfare capabilities.

Minister for Information and Broadcasting, Dr Firdaus Ashiq Awan, told reporters after the cabinet meeting that Beijing had offered to sell submarines to Islamabad. The Ministry of Defence would hold talks for this purpose. Dr Firdaus said that at this stage it was not possible to share details as the process of preparation of the project’s feasibility had yet to be started.

Nihat · Post by **Nihat** » 15 Mar 2011 17:36

Even though the proposal had been shot down a few days ago for want of money, even though Forex reserves are only 17 billion and despite the fact that Economy is on life support with IMF talks failing.

The only silver lining is the word "purchase" and not "gove" which US is so fond of. Between the twp weapon supplying demons i.e. USA and China, I would anyday have china SELL some INFERIOR tech than Unkil give away high tech. stuff for free.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 15 Mar 2011 17:46

well, the price of the "sale" might be a few uighur hot heads...

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 16 Mar 2011 16:53

@viv

He is in the Merchant Navy now and works out of LA. And I am in touch with him. But while at sea his internet is limited. Will connect with him when he is back in station.

Cheers

pragnya · Post by **pragnya** » 16 Mar 2011 17:21

can this be true??

According to well informed diplomatic circles in Islamabad, the disbursements of the American military and civilian aid, which was being provided to Pakistan under the Coalition Support Fund and Kerry-Lugar aid package, have already been blocked by the Obama administration, but without making any announcement in this regard.

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/report_ra ... id_1520443

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 16 Mar 2011 17:57

Raymond Davis acquitted

sum · Post by **sum** » 16 Mar 2011 17:58

^^ expect more F-16s and assorted other "non-India specific" goodies like P-3Cs and TOWs for this great service of acquiting raymond...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Mar 2011 07:08

sum wrote:^^ expect more F-16s and assorted other "non-India specific" goodies like P-3Cs and TOWs for this great service of acquiting raymond...

In fact all those arms - F-16s, Harpoons, AMRAAMs, TOWs have a sticker that says "Not for use against India"

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 17 Mar 2011 08:26

Mukesh.Kumar wrote:Raymond Davis acquitted

Porkiland is a spineless country, with no sharam or haya.

For US and China they are always bottoms up. But when is comes to India they are always gung-ho.

How low a country can get?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 19 Mar 2011 05:34

Pak Air force conducts joint exercise with China

ISLAMABAD: The Pakistan Air Force has announced it was conducting a joint exercise codenamed Shaheen-1 with the Chinese air force.

The exercise is aimed at sharing mutual experiences, honing professional skills and accruing maximum benefits from the expertise of the two air forces, said a statement issued by the PAF.

A contingent of the Chinese air force comprising combat jets, pilots and technicians had arrived at an operational base of the PAF for the exercise.

This is the first time that a contingent of the Chinese air force has deployed in Pakistan for an operational exercise.

The exercise coincides with the celebration of 2011 as the "Year of Pakistan-China Friendship".

LA WHORE n their Chini Masters YAY!

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Mar 2011 12:57

A contingent of the Chinese air force comprising combat jets, pilots and technicians had arrived at an operational base of the PAF for the exercise.

This is the first time that a contingent of the Chinese air force has deployed in Pakistan for an operational exercise.

Would assume that this "exercise" would be more of a Chinese hand holding mission to teach the Pakis to use the Chinese systems inducted ( Y-8s/JF-17s etc) sicne the manuals might be in Chinese

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 22 Mar 2011 23:03

And so an Official "Key Feature" of the Bandaar is that "bandaar will have an edge over its contemporary aircraft particularly Indian LCA"

Does not matter to the Djinn Aerodynamicysts even if the Bandaar will be eventually going up against Su-30 MKIs armed to the teeth.
Still, bandaar is "better" than the LCA !

http://www.pac.org.pk/jf17.html#kf

The aircraft will have an edge over its contemporary aircraft particularly Indian light combat aircraft (LCA) in its cost effectiveness, early availability and supportability.

And the generational debate over the Bandaar is over as their manufacturer themselves call it "3rd Gen" !

http://www.pac.org.pk/jf17.html#prod

Besides upgrading the production system, PAC has also upgraded its quality, technology and archive management systems to meet the production and management standards of a 3rd generation fighter aircraft.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 22 Mar 2011 23:08

nirav wrote: ...
The aircraft will have an edge over its contemporary aircraft particularly Indian light combat aircraft (LCA) in its cost effectiveness, early availability and supportability.
...

[/quote]

So they are better only in
cost effectiveness: which means china barters some fighters for real estate waah kya baat hai
early availability: Their early availability criteria for the bandar has been achieved by the lca in 2001
supportability: they need loads of this not only the bandar all chinese products need this due to their shoddy copied design and special substandard material used on the planes destined for the pure land

Mohit A · Post by **Mohit A** » 23 Mar 2011 00:56

http://www.pac.org.pk/jf17.html#kf

features listed on the link...pls explain to me how these can be called features..???

JF-17 Thunder is the new approved name of the Super-7 (Chao Qi) aircraft. This name depicts true character of the modern aircraft and will surely give a new color to the image it carried earlier.-----how new name=new capabilities and counts as feature..???

Chinese version of this aircraft is named as FC-1, which is the first fighter aircraft totally designed and developed in China. FC-1 on entry to PLAAF might carry the J-9 designation.--------the chinese name and designation is a feature...???

Chengdu Aircraft Design Institute (CADI) designed the aircraft and prototyped at Chengdu aircraft Industry Company (CAC), both based in Sichuan Province. CAC is the second-largest fighter production base of China.-----being developed at a particular institute in china is a feature..???

Dont they even have 5 good features to write bout that they have to write bullshit like this..

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 23 Mar 2011 05:27

nirav wrote:
http://www.pac.org.pk/jf17.html#kf

The link says:

The origins of the 'Super-7' can be traced back to 1986 when Pakistan and China wanted to modernize the J-7 with western avionics and engine. The project was named 'Saber II' by the PAF. By 1989, the project was almost shelved due to significant increase in the projected cost and other reasons. China continued the development under the new designation FC-1 (Fighter China-1) aimed at creating an affordable fighter for the export market. In 1995 Pakistan regained interest in the project with an aim of indigenization of its vital defence assets. In June 1999, China and Pakistan signed a joint development and production agreement to co-develop the FC-1. In Pakistan the new fighter received the designation JF-17 (Joint Fighter-17) and was planned to replace the F-7, Mirage III/5 and A-5 aircraft of Pakistan Air Force. The Pakistan Air Force was thus actively involved in the development of the aircraft.

Here is the info I got from various sources with an image (cross post from another thread)

shiv wrote: In the late 1980s when Osama bin Laden was a great freedom fighter, the Chinese and the Americans were thick as thieves. China contracted Grumman corp to help her upgrade Chinese MiG 21 clones (called F-7) to create a super MiG 21 called "Super -7". What Grumman did was to put a nose cone on the design and move the intakes to the side. The nose cone of the "Super-7/Grumman Sabre II" was to house the radar of the F-20 Tigershark. Grumman was clearly playing with its own ideas about the F-5/F-20 and was trying to sell it to various nations. You probably know hat Grumman tried to palm off the F-20 to India. A sale of F-20s to Taiwan was blocked by the US government because the Chinese would get upset and get their kimkoms in a twist.

Here are photographs of the designs of Super-7/Saber-II.

Click on the image below to see the original Grumman Sabre II design, and the Super-7/FC-1 project that came later.

The Sabre-II retained MiG 21s Delta wing but from the front the design looks pretty much like what the Thundaar does today. But Grumman had to pull out because of the Tiananmen love fest. But not before they had shared ideas with China, which went on and started what was called the FC-1 project that later became the Thundaar JF-17. The FC-1 retained the nosecone of the Super-7/Saber II/F-5 and the front profile looks very similar.

But what the Chinese did for the FC-1 was to change the classic MiG 21 delta to the delta with relatively shorter chord (and longer wingspan) that we see on the Bundaar as can be seen in the head on front views in the image above.

prithvi · Post by **prithvi** » 24 Mar 2011 00:48

Pakistani IL-78MP in Pisa, Italy...

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Mar 2011 01:23

NELLIS AIR FORCE BASE, Nev. -- Maintenance officers from the Pakistan Air Force oversee an early morning launch of their F-16s during Red Flag 10-4 at Nellis on July 26, 2010. The U.S. Air Force is hosting approximately 100 Pakistan Air Force pilots and support personnel at the world's premier large force employment and integration exercise July 17-31 at Nellis Air Force Base, Nev. This is the PAFÕs first time participating in the Red Flag exercise.(U.S. Air Force photo/Lawrence Crespo)

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 25 Mar 2011 08:39

prithvi wrote:

Pakistani IL-78MP in Pisa, Italy...

That's a refueller!!!???

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Mar 2011 05:01

merlin wrote:That's a refueller!!!???

Why should'nt it be?

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 26 Mar 2011 13:30

Hey guys,

Check out this biased article I found. Be sure to savour the words like:

Code: Select all

MBT Al-Khalid; pride of Pakistan Army’s Armoured Corps

and

Code: Select all

MBT Arjun; the shame of Indian Army’s night blindness suffering Armoured Corps

.

It was written in Jan, 2011. I seriously think this guy has been smoking too much donkey dung or something.

https://thepeopleofpakistan.wordpress.c ... mbt-arjun/

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 26 Mar 2011 17:09

^^
Gurinder,
I am sure that your intentions were to make fun of the wonderland in which Pakis live in (a noble effort which we all strive to excel in

). However, posting the link will only result in BR helping the Paki propaganda site to achieve more views, better page rank and more revenue.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 27 Mar 2011 15:29

Rakesh wrote: Why should'nt it be?

I thought our "friends" only sold them innocuous stuff like Mi-17s. Refuellers too???

vishnu.nv · Post by **vishnu.nv** » 27 Mar 2011 15:56

Thats from Ukrain!!!

aditya.agd · Post by **aditya.agd** » 27 Mar 2011 16:29

deleted.

sum · Post by **sum** » 27 Mar 2011 17:59

merlin wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Why should'nt it be?
I thought our "friends" only sold them innocuous stuff like Mi-17s. Refuellers too???

Sirji, surprising you missed this "old news" since it was discussed quite a lot of BRF...

The Poaks are now apparently looking out for 3 more after their initial 3 seem to have been integrated well into the PAF whereas we are still running entire IAF with just 6

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 28 Mar 2011 04:47

deleted.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 28 Mar 2011 06:15

deleted.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 28 Mar 2011 09:10

deleted.

Gurinder P · Post by **Gurinder P** » 28 Mar 2011 13:54

deleted.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 28 Mar 2011 15:27

thread cleaned up. a bunch of people have received official warnings and a couple have got unofficial ones.

let me say this as simply as I can :
'DO NOT make off topic posts here' or you will have only yourself to blame if you get banned.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 28 Mar 2011 18:40

sum wrote: Sirji, surprising you missed this "old news" since it was discussed quite a lot of BRF...

The Poaks are now apparently looking out for 3 more after their initial 3 seem to have been integrated well into the PAF whereas we are still running entire IAF with just 6

Yeah, must have missed this or don't remember now. Shows at least one advantage of a military running the show (of course the disadvantages far, far outweigh the advantages).

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 28 Mar 2011 20:42

merlin wrote:
sum wrote:Shows at least one advantage of a military running the show (of course the disadvantages far, far outweigh the advantages).

Nevertheless, it is exactly these type of procurements, that constrain our military options, especially given the fact that we do not invest nearly as aggressively as our threats demand. Remember we spend Do Taka!