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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 24 Mar 2011 23:33 
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Since India has won the match against Oz, and will play Pak now - should not the honourable PM or MEA make a statement that India will not do anything that destabilizes the state of Pakistan? Further that India will positively contribute towards making Pakistan more stable and that the Indian team facing Pakistan should keep this in mind in the great tradition of "Bharat" (not India - somehow when speaking of tradition, it always comes down to "Bharat")? After all any defeat at the hands of Indian team in cricket would be enough of a provocation to destabilize Pakistan - isn't it? Since all Pakistanis who rant and rail against India are closet RAW agents, will not RAW use such a defeat of Pakistan to agitate the largely RAW agent population of Pakistan? Nuclear war danger looms large over this cricket match, and maybe the Oz team was defeated by RAW agents angry at OZ resistance against Indian nuclear ambitions! What if paki team is largely full of RAW agents who will deliberately get defeated so a subcontinental crisis is precipitated! These are grave times!


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2011 00:28 
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Not fair as that robs the Indian team of giving the Pakis a whipping! In spirit of Aman ki Tamasha they will be forced to throw away the game.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2011 02:16 
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ramana ji,
unbelievably, I suggested this in my typical grave face this evening to a mixed informal group. It was taken very very seriously! Even by Indians. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 27 Mar 2011 17:41 
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X-posting :thought might be of interest to experts on finance and financial strategy - my response to Saik ji!

Quote:
SaiK wrote:
How about legalizing corruption? Have premium corruption tax on everything! that should end the matter.

For real first step to stopping would be start increase supply against demand, in every walk of life. make it abundant, and put it mission statement.

Rest it has to start from the mother and father who brings a new baby to the world.



Go Mughal. Make nazrana a official thingie! Hold transparent open auctions for the top n-number highest nazranas - whoever wins the bid pays off and gets to the next stage of moving the file or the service or the allocation or grant or favour, and the auction starts again. Crucial to let through more than one bidders to the next stage - to ensure transparency and openness and fair competitive market conditions at the next higher stage.

Should they allow bidding in open auction to earn the right to disallow failed bidders from going to the next stage? That means of course the next higher levels are deprived of their nazranas - so maybe portions fixed before? like the founding father of Muslims had a rule of khams - 1/5th of all booty, including women looted in ghazwas to be handed over to the "chief".

Heck it could be a godsend for the financial industry! I am sure plenty of talent whizzes around who can set up options for hedging against the "futures" of nazaranas. The cumulative experience in pricing such options would be most convenient. Both givers and takers could take out options against futures of such instruments. Fascinating!

Added later : missed the importance of "pricing"! If everything has a price, why should not corruption be "priced" too! Once it comes into the financial market, it should become legitimized - isnt it? After all if there is someone willing to put up money on an option - say sale of a woman somewhere, or the outcome of a snuff movie experiment or even its marketed profits, an option say on giving up a portion of Kashmir Valley to Pak or Jihadis, whatever - as long as there is money to be made [after proper pricing of such risks using financial models and pricing formulae] everything goes - no?


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 06:13 
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Did the mainstream media ever reported this ?


Christians launch political party

Quote:
Christians in Tamil Nadu have launched a political party in the southern Indian state, where a legislative assembly poll is scheduled for April 13.

Archbishop A.M. Chinnapa of Madras-Mylapore diocese formally launched the Indian Christian People’s Party (ICPP) on March 20.

He also unveiled the flag of the party, which has 150 members from all over the state.

“ICPP would be the political organ of the Indian Christian Church,” the archbishop said.

Founder member of the party F. A. Nathan said the founding team plans to build its membership among Christians, specifically Catholics in Tamil Nadu, before launching it in other states.

The founding committee of the party asked the state government to protect fishermen, provide job opportunities and contain inflation.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 06:24 
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Vivek K wrote:
SBajwa wrote:
Though I was brought up in Chandigarh my village is close to Batala (Saidpur). Batala is a native place to myself

Hmm so all Batalvis think rationally! Good!
Quote:
Now!! If Batala residents want the district to be named "Batala" instead of "Gurdaspur" they have to take it up with the government and demand it. Even smaller places like "Mansa" and "SAS nagar" have become "districts".

That is my point entirely.
Quote:
Overall Batala has to be the dirtiest town in Punjab with its Bus Stand created before 1947.

My grandfather owned the Khanna Transport Company - one of the first bus transport companies in Punjab (started pre-independence). After partition, the muslim drivers stole our buses and drove them to Pukistan.

Quote:
BTW. I am not blaming Government of India but Print and Electronics Media! Punjab government and/or Government of India should gentally remind media that the real name is SAS nagar and not "Mohali".

Point taken. And that is something that the locals need to take up. When Bombay can become "Mumbai", Madras - Chennai and Calcutta - Kolkatta, I do not see why this small transition cannot take place.

BTW, the Indian media like all international media houses works for its bottom line - sensational news that attracts readers and Advertisers. So they are worthless now from the national interest. The only nationality they understand is their profit.

Even for Mumbai, Kolkata and Chennai, there are some quarters who still refer to them by their colonial names. I don't know why. My guess is they are not OK with Indic origin of the new names. Mumbai is derived from "Mumbadevi" (oh so communal). Recently, there was an issue regarding proposed change to the name Bhopal. The proposed name is Bhojpal which makes perfect sense as Bhopal got its name because of a great scholar Raja Bhoj. The "civil society" (you know who right?) was up in arms protesting against the new name. When Amitabh Bachchan supported the new name, he was denounced saying he was an "outsider" to Bhopal and had no business commenting about the name. The same "civil society" people condemn Raj Thackeray for calling north Indians "outsiders".


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 10:49 
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^^^This business of renaming is quite stupid IMO...I was most disappointed when Calcutta got changed to Kolkata (never thought bengalis could be that stupid :wink: ) - and insist on writing "Calcutta" everytime I send any snail mail back home...

Thankfully, CP is still CP and not Rajiv Chowk, Marine Drive is still Marine Drive and not NS Bose Road, VT is still VT and not Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 10:58 
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^^
Somnath: other than calling people 'stupid' what is your reason?

Partha: Chennai, Mumbai or Kolkata have reverted to the names supported by the local populace. On similar note I can understand preference for (say) Dilli over Delhi. Does the same apply to Bhopal? Is Bhojpal used by people?


Last edited by yayavar on 28 Mar 2011 11:11, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 10:58 
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somnathji,

I agree that names should not be randomly chosen say for example a city name changed after a neta or some such. In case of Mumbai and Kolkata and Bhopal, we are talking about changing the British assigned name to its original name. I don't see anything wrong in that. How nice it will be if place names have etymological meanings? What does "Calcutta" mean anyway?


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 11:08 
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somnath wrote:
^^^This business of renaming is quite stupid IMO..

IMO, your viewpoint is quite stupid !

I will elaborate when you elaborate on your viewpoint.

Btw, were the Chinese stupid to rename Peking as Beijing, and were the British stupid to rename New Amsterdam as New York?


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 11:17 
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partha wrote:
somnathji,

I agree that names should not be randomly chosen say for example a city name changed after a neta or some such. In case of Mumbai and Kolkata and Bhopal, we are talking about changing the British assigned name to its original name. I don't see anything wrong in that. How nice it will be if place names have etymological meanings? What does "Calcutta" mean anyway?

Its just a case of misplaced priorities - all our cities, more so Calcutta and Bombay, have been grossly let-down by the post-Raj city administrations...To suddenly wake up 40 years later and ask for, of all things, a renaming exercise, is a case in gross stupidity at worst and grossly misplaced priorities at best...How many things would they (or could they) change in Calcutta? Change the name of Calcutta Boys? Or IIM, Calcutta? Or Royal Calcutta Turf Club? Calcutta university?? From a purely personal perspective, "Cal" was so much "cooler" in the queen's language than the awkward "Kolkata" (again, in the queen's language, not while speaking in bangla) :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 11:28 
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somnath wrote:
partha wrote:
somnathji,

I agree that names should not be randomly chosen say for example a city name changed after a neta or some such. In case of Mumbai and Kolkata and Bhopal, we are talking about changing the British assigned name to its original name. I don't see anything wrong in that. How nice it will be if place names have etymological meanings? What does "Calcutta" mean anyway?

Its just a case of misplaced priorities - all our cities, more so Calcutta and Bombay, have been grossly let-down by the post-Raj city administrations...To suddenly wake up 40 years later and ask for, of all things, a renaming exercise, is a case in gross stupidity at worst and grossly misplaced priorities at best...How many things would they (or could they) change in Calcutta? Change the name of Calcutta Boys? Or IIM, Calcutta? Or Royal Calcutta Turf Club? Calcutta university?? From a purely personal perspective, "Cal" was so much "cooler" in the queen's language than the awkward "Kolkata" (again, in the queen's language, not while speaking in bangla) :twisted:

"coolness" is subjective. I find "Mumbai" cooler than "Bombay". Now I agree that Calcutta is a cooler sounding name but for Bengalis, "Kolkata" might be cooler. Even for many non Bengalis too. So we should not change the names because of bad administration? During the good British administration of Bengal, millions died because of famine. Thousands died in Calcutta. We know how the British responded to the famine.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 11:33 
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somnath wrote:
Its just a case of misplaced priorities - all our cities, more so Calcutta and Bombay, have been grossly let-down by the post-Raj city administrations

Ah another British Raj sympathizer. :rotfl:

As for the coolness yeah it's typical of MUTUs who truncate a sanskrit name to a meaningless word just to ensure that goras can pronounce it. :roll:


Last edited by negi on 28 Mar 2011 11:38, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 11:36 
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Parthaji, question is not of justifying the Raj, its of priorities..Yes, a city needs good administration before name changes, and cities like Calcutta need it on an SOS basis...Renaming is a digression - doesnt add any value to the citizenry, to any Calcuttan (wonder how we can be described now, as Kolkatan - so uncool!:) And I am yet to see any bengali (btw, I am one) who thinks Kolkata is "cooler" than Cal!


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 11:40 
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Location: Hamari chai bahut kadvi hoti hai..
Btw the argument that ' Oh why change the name , our priorities are misplaced' is exactly on the lines of arguments made by jhollla gang and other dimwits i.e. our priorities are misplaced why invest in defense who needs Army or even brighter ones say why is ISRO wasting money on moon program ?


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 11:40 
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not sure if this site was shared earlier - apologies if posted

tracks diplomats from mostly SAARC countries - pretty expansive
http://www.flickr.com/photos/menik/


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 18:15 
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A new media consolidator page:

http://lensonnews.com/index.php

Dont know if it was posted before.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 19:46 
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Bangalee's are supposed to be proud of their literature. How many of the "greats" of Bangali literature, write of "Cal"?!!! Lets see - a doyen of Marxian intellectualism - radical in all aspects of human life - Utpal Dutta's "Tiner talwar" (sword of tin) about the early anti-colonialism as expressed in the theatre movement, has a key song - "Kolketa go..". Does anyone know how many times Rabindranath "Thakur", Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay, Sarat Chatujyee, Buddhadev Bosu, Sharadindu Bandopadhyay, Gajen Mittir, - heck, even Manik Bandopadhyay (a shining light cited as a true Marxist writer) or Mrityunjay Maiti write "Cal" to refer to "Kolkata"? Shuneel Gaangulee, Shakti Chattopadhyay, Shirshendu Mukhopadhyay, and their lesser known friend Sharat, Gaur kishore Ghosh, or poets Joy and Bashar, write "Cal"? Most highlight "Kolkata" or the older ones even use "Kolikata"! If the Bengali culture has been held in its literature or songs - its pride - how many times does it revel in "Calcutta" or "Cal"?!!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 22:48 
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The name of "Mohali" to SAS nagar is not even a "renaming issue" . Chandigarh was created by Nehru in lieu of Lahore (50% non-muslims) going to Pakistan. Later Chandigarh was made a Union territory and three states carved out of original punjab (Haryana, Himachal and Punjab). Chandigarh is exactly in middle. Chandi is the name of the Goddess and Garh is fort there is a Chandi Mandir (Temple devoted to Chandi goddess) in Chandigarh. Thus Chandigarh.

Haryana part of Chandigarh is called "Panchkula" (I am not sure about the significance of the name "Panchkula" but it looks like that it is related to Mahabharat i.e. Pandavs who were I believe also called "The Kul of Five's". Similarly there is a city close to Kurukshetra called "Karnal" believe to be established by Karna of Mahabharata.

Since Punjab part is right next to the last sector (47) of Chandigarh., adjacent to sectors 40-47., Punjab kept the original chandigarh design by just extending the roads into punjab and calling the new city "Sahibzada Ajit Singh Nagar".

The first Phase of SAS nagar started out by creating the public housing buildings right next to village Mohali. since then SAS nagar has absorbed over 10 villages (Mohali to Kajheri and all the way down to Banur) but it is universally known as the name of the first acquired village "Mohali" despite administration naming it SAS nagar.

All papers (driver licenses, marriage certificates, property deeds, etc) have name as "SAS nagar" but media everywhere calls it "Mohali". Even the newly created district of Shaheed Bhagat Singh is still known as its original name of "Nawanshahar".


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 28 Mar 2011 22:49 
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The question is that despite administration naming the city to the name of a hero (Martyr Ajit Singh, Martyr Bhagat Singh) media and people don't use it.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 00:06 
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Pioneer book Review:

Quote:
Exceptional General
March 29, 2011 12:26:54 AM

The core of the book deals with the issue of national security, says Sanjoy Bagchi

Reminiscences and Reflections
Author: Lt Gen SK Sinha
Publisher: Gyan
Price: Rs 650


Lt Gen SK Sinha joined the Army in 1943 when World War II was on. After graduating from the Indian Military Academy, he saw active service in Burma with General Slim’s 14th Army engaged in ousting the Japanese from South-East Asia. He went on to fight in Indonesia and after Independence, against Pakistan in Kashmir and insurgents in the Northeast.

Sinha became the Vice-Chief of the Army Staff and should have become the Army Chief, but at the last moment Indira Gandhi superseded him. It was suspected that the inner circle surrounding Mrs Gandhi had fed her suspicions about Sinha’s familial proximity with Jayaprakash Narain. If his loyalty to the Government of the day as the Army Chief was being doubted, strangely it was never questioned when he was the Vice-Chief. Indeed, there had never been any occasion in independent India when the loyalty of any defence officer to the Government of the day could ever be questioned. The Indian Army in this regard has been unique, unlike its counterparts in Burma, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Pakistan that had been tempted to seize political power. It is especially distinctive because the neighbouring armies along with the Indian Army had the same parentage and shared the same traditions, ethos and esprit de corps.

Lt Gen Sinha has been regularly writing non-controversial features in the newspapers while in retirement. He has now collected his contributions in a book form. In this book, he has divided them into four parts. The first part contains his memories of the days in the Army. The second part deals with various aspects of national security like the secessionist movements in the country and the festering Kashmir problem. The third part is concerned with insurgency in the Northeast as well as the communist variety. The last part contains a miscellany of a variety of subjects ranging from the role and office of Governors to supremacy of civil power and some controversial subjects like the misuse of national awards, etc.

An important feature in the collection is Sinha’s role as Ambassador in Nepal. VP Singh had not shown much evidence of farsighted regard for the country’s national interest during his tenure as Prime Minister. But his picking up of Lt Gen Sinha from retirement as India’s Ambassador to Nepal was brilliant.

Rajiv Gandhi, his predecessor, was an immature Prime Minister surrounded by an equally immature bunch of his school chums. In a fit of temper, he had perpetrated one of the worst disasters on a neighbour that was not only a small land-locked country, but also a buffer against a bigger and more powerful enemy. He denied the renewal of the Trade and Transit Treaty with Nepal, resulting in its economic strangulation with shortage of all essential commodities. It created an intense animosity against India and I had personally witnessed this feeling, while on a visit as a UN representative, not only in the Nepalese Government but also at the local UNDP office.

It was in this context that Lt Gen Sinha went to Nepal. He was, however, well-equipped. Having been the Colonel Commandant of the Gurkha Regiment, he knew the Nepali life and customs. He had often trekked through the homeland of the Gurkhas; and, he was fluent in their language. Soon, he was able to build a rapport with the King, the politicians and the people; and, he got the lapsed treaty renewed to the satisfaction of both sides.

His tenure was perhaps a classic example of proper diplomatic relations between a big country and its small, prickly neighbour. Curiously, the King used to converse with his Prime Minister in English but with the Indian Ambassador in Nepalese. It is a pity that he was not allowed to continue the good work by VP Singh’s successor. Lt Gen Sinha should write a more detailed account of his time in Nepal to serve as a model for the Indian envoys in other neighbouring countries.

The core of the book deals with the issue of national security and terrorism in the Northeast, Kashmir and even the Naxal stronghold. He has classified terrorism into three kinds: The secessionist variety, the religious type and the revolutionary nature. The origin and the development of each are different. The secessionist terror emerged in the Northeast when the Nagas and Mizos felt that their local resources were diverted for the enrichment of the ‘outsiders’. A tell-tale example was the location of an oil refinery in Uttar Pradesh, instead of Assam. Later the conflict assumed an ethnic form between the tribals and the immigrants which was aggravated by the Congress using the Muslim immigrants as its vote-bank.

The terror in Kashmir was inspired from outside by religious fundamentalists to whom the presence of a multi-religious society was anathema. The Naxal movement exploited the abject poverty and economic deprivation of the indigenous people for the capture of political power by foreign ideologues.

The fight against militancy is like a war that has to be fought to a finish with a single-minded devotion. It should not admit any policy of appeasement and needs to be pursued with absolute co-ordination of all forces, supported by prompt intelligence and quick offensive deployment.

The author has pointed out “glaring deficiencies of paramilitary leadership” and poor morale of the CRPF. The higher echelons of paramilitary forces are manned almost exclusively by the IPS cadre with little or no combat training and who lead not from the front but from their headquarters far away from the scene. He has stressed the importance of training in jungle warfare for all CRPF men.

Lt Gen Sinha’s experience demonstrates the need for a strong political will to fight insurgency that is often lacking in the political arena. It requires the maintenance of offensive spirit, and there should not be any place for misguided feelings of human rights. :oops:

The author was Governor for full terms in two ‘difficult’ States. He has written two short pieces on the office of the Governor and the relations between Governors and Chief Ministers. The Constitution has retained the position of Governors as ceremonial heads of States and as agents of the Union Government. The ruling parties have tended to treat the post as a parking slot for retired or defeated politicians who cannot be accommodated elsewhere. Of course, the difficult positions have been usually filled by competent persons from the civil or military professions.

Governors are not entirely ornamental as they are often required to play crucial roles. They are called upon to tread skilfully between the political needs of a Union Government of a different hue and the political rights of a popularly elected State Government. The author has wide experience in this treacherous field. Having been in the Army, he has the ability for objective analyses. He is articulate to shed more light compared with his political counterparts who are rarely so equipped.

Sinha would do an immense service to the nation if he were to undertake a detailed examination, based on his personal experience, of the role and function of the Governors.

--The reviewer, a retired IAS officer, is a Fellow of Royal Asiatic Society, London


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 01:45 
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X-post by krisna from Indian Economy thread....


Our own brfite rips into the so called philanthropists of the world- wonderful read.

Buffett should learn our ethos of giving- R Vaidya
Quote:
The rootless wonders are agog with ecstasy that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett are visiting India. They will not only explore about investing in India but also urge the Indian business to allocate at least half of their wealth to charity and this year is called year of ‘giving’.
:rotfl:
Quote:
It is important that both of them are educated about our system and ethos of giving which exist from ancient times and do not need lectures through business channels which live and even die for TRPs.
:mrgreen:
Quote:
Buffett should know that the greatest hero of all times in India in our puranas is Karna who gave all and his name is interchangeably used for the art of giving in many Indian languages.
Ratan Tata may be shy to point out to Bill Gates that ‘the Tata founders bequeathed most of their individual wealth to many trusts they created for the greater good of India and its people’. So is the case with G D Birla and Jamnalal Bajaj. This may not be trumpeted by Kumara Mangalam Birla and Rahul Bajaj. As a perceptive blogger Sandeep Singh says that as early as 1895 Dayal Singh Majithia bequeathed away three million rupees for noble causes including new ventures by Indians. :D Actually Majithia was an early ‘venture capitalist’ in India even though not many know about him.
We also find that Swami Vivekananda could not have gone to USA but for local business people funding him and the weightlifters and wrestlers could not have won gold medals at the recent Commonwealth Games but for local traders financing their clubs in remote parts of Orissa and Manipur. Many may not have heard about Ekal Vidyalayas which are one-teacher schools functioning in remote parts of India, particularly in tribal areas. They are in as many as 35,000 villages, educating more than one million children. Take the other example of Satya Sai initiative to bring water to Rayalseema using private donations. The Ninth Plan document of Planning Commission says, “The Sathya Sai Charity has set an unparalleled initiative of implementing on their own without any budgetary support a massive water supply project with an expenditure of `3 billion to benefit 731 villages, etc.”
Later this project was extended to Chennai costing more than `600 crore. Ramakrishna Mission runs around 200 hospitals serving nearly one crore people annually mostly in rural areas. It also runs around 1,200 educational institutions serving more than 3.5 lakh students of which more than 1.25 lakh are in rural areas.
Nadars engaged in business in Tamil Nadu have funded hundreds of educational institutions and hospitals and so the Marwaris/Chettiars/Katchis/Bhoras all over India.
A lot of our education, healthcare, arts, literature and spirituality efforts/ventures have been fully financed by businessmen who are even shy to talk about it. Herein is the secret to the fundamental ethos of giving in India. It is done without advertisements and trumpets. Actually in our tradition the giver is reluctant to talk about it since it embarrasses the receiver. The fact that it could demean the receiver is reason enough for the giver to keep silent. Remember the way Nitish Kumar reacted when the donation from Gujarat for flood relief in Bihar was advertised? Nitish Kumar recalled our tradition of giving without revealing.
It is told in our ancient wisdom that one should give till the hand bleeds and one should not talk about it. The action will speak even centuries later. The upstarts of today write on every tubelight their names before donating it to a temple or call press conferences to declare their ‘intentions’. That is the US culture. Everything from lovemaking to charity should be advertised and shown on prime time television. Then only you prove that the spouses and receivers are happy :rotfl: :rotfl: .

how it all began and got prominence-
Quote:
But why this sudden wallowing in self pity and whining about giving? It all started with the Indira Gandhi Prize being given to Bill Gates on July 25, 2009, and wherein the chairman of National Advisory Council Sonia Gandhi read a speech on the need for Indian businessmen to give for charity (like Bill Gates) :roll: and it was published in full by Wall Street Journal and a columnist in that paper pontificated the “rich in India to open their wallets”. Leaders and media in India who are clueless about Indian ethos are setting the Gates and Buffett’s to further pontificate to our business people.

Quote:
It is interesting that Bill Gates who has operations in Cayman islands and Reno of Nevada to minimise or evade taxes to be paid to the United States government is enthusiastic about “Giving by India Inc”. :lol: Warren Buffett is planning to give his dollar assets to the Gates foundation which will reduce estate taxes in the future. :lol: Interestingly both of them are some of the few US business barons supporting estate taxes. It is not clear who are their dinner guests in India. If it is Forbes billionaires from India we hope Shahid Balwa of the Spectrum fame is not going to be there! :mrgreen:
Somebody should also tell Bill Gates and Warren Buffett that India Inc constitutes less than 15 per cent of our GDP and the real growth masters are small partnership and proprietorship firms which are deeply involved in giving. Actually India Inc in our economy is like an item number in a Bollywood movie. Good to talk about on TV but only has the glamour quotient. 8) Also can we suggest to Gates and Buffett to stop investing in firms in tax havens since that sucks away billions of dollars of money from countries like India. If they really want to help India then they should start a campaign to close down all these tax havens rather than having expensive company-paid dinners at five star hotels of our country urging Balwas to give.

great article.
nice to know about ourselves.
I did not know about our own contributions- shame on me.
Good that I learnt something-


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 02:13 
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somnath wrote:
^^^This business of renaming is quite stupid IMO...I was most disappointed when Calcutta got changed to Kolkata (never thought bengalis could be that stupid :wink: ) - and insist on writing "Calcutta" everytime I send any snail mail back home...

Thankfully, CP is still CP and not Rajiv Chowk, Marine Drive is still Marine Drive and not NS Bose Road, VT is still VT and not Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus :twisted:


I disagree from yours. I thought it was a stupid of you to comment that bengalis could be that stupid. :mrgreen: (I know you dont mean it but still had to make a comment onlee :P )
Brits did it as it was difficult to pronounce the names from their point of view.
I want all names to be Indianised reflecting our culture or old names.
I feel proud about it. I am very open about the Indian names.
first step in regaining our own culture is diagnosing its ills, later solutions will come soon.( I dont want to get into arguments with this which is my view)

ex- People have a problem with my name in west where I work. They insist on shortening my name or anglicising it. I inform them politely I will do the same to your name. They refuse. People now understand and call me properly. I chided them to call me like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 02:28 
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‘India could indeed become a superpower if it set itself some clear goals’
Quote:
Even before Narendra Modi arrived for his session at last week’s India Today conclave, there was a buzz of excitement about his presence. Opinion in this gathering of liberal opinion makers was heavily weighted against him. The journalists were all implacably hostile and spent their time preparing questions on the violence that swept through Gujarat in February 2002 and that continues to haunt him wherever he goes. The drawing room intellectuals in the audience were prepared to have a more open mind on the Chief Minister of India’s fastest growing state, but admitted that there was something about him that continued to give them the creeps.

Quote:
All in all, there was a hornets’ nest awaiting him and this is why the speed with which he disarmed the stings was so impressive. The Aaj Tak anchor, Ajay Kumar, who introduced him made no effort to conceal his hostility and although he admitted that Gujarat was making remarkable economic gains under Modi, tempered this praise by adding that the chief minister was a ‘cunning and clever’ politician. The implication was clear: no matter how impressive this man may seem, remember what he did after Godhra.

Quote:
Modi ignored the implication and began his address with this question. India, a superpower
‘Can our country become one of the world’s superpowers?’ He answered the question himself by saying that his experience in Gujarat had led him to believe that India could indeed become one of the world’s most powerful countries if it set itself some clear goals. He said the ‘Gujarat model’ was proof that the cynical, defeated mood that prevailed in the country about our political leaders and governance in general was wrong. ‘In Gujarat we have shown that those same government offices, those same government officials and those same old laws and regulations can be used to bring about development and change.’

Quote:
By the time he got to pointing out that the 21st century was widely acknowledged as Asia’s century and that the race was between China and India he had everybody’s attention. He then listed what he considered India’s three advantages over China.
Democracy, youth power, and a judicial system that worked. It was on these three strengths, he said, that India needed to build.

contrast with PM and CM
Quote:
When he finished speaking the drawing room liberals in my vicinity whispered among themselves about how wonderful it would be if Modi became prime minister. The questions were, as usual, about the violence he had presided over but they failed to deflect from the general sense of hope and optimism that Modi had succeeded in creating. Everyone I spoke to agreed that what India needed was a leader like Modi. What made this opinion even more pervasive was that Modi made such a vibrant contrast to the lackluster performance we had witnessed earlier from the Prime Minister. He addressed the first session of the conclave and said nothing new. In the monotone we have become accustomed to he gave us a catalogue of his government’s ‘achievements’. The Right to Information law, the Right to Education act, the rural employment guarantee scheme, the rural health mission…the list was long. When questioned about failures to deal with corruption, child malnutrition and black money he gave a series of bland answers and banalities.

Quote:
What made the sessions riveting was that almost none of them were politically correct. So in a session on whether religion had destabilized the sub-continent, Subramaniam Swamy was allowed to express the view that there had been no religious problems in India until Islam and Christianity came along and demanded that everyone accept that their religion was the only way to God. He was allowed even to state that if Islam stopped declaring itself to be God’s last message, half the sub-continent’s religious problems would sort themselves out. In a session on Kashmir, the secessionist leader, Syed Ali Shah Geelani, was allowed to state his well known view that India had no right to Kashmir and that it belonged to Pakistan. He may have been booed afterwards but he was allowed to make his point. But, among the stars who glittered at the conclave, and there were many, I have to admit without any concession to political correctness, that Narendra Modi shone brighter than all the others. Even those who came prepared to hate him left with a very different view. This is because he spoke, not of his personal ‘achievements’ but about the country India could become if we work towards a higher goal.


Hope upa govt think about 'aam aadmi' and not about 2G onlee :(( :((


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 02:53 
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somnath wrote:
^^^This business of renaming is quite stupid IMO...I was most disappointed when Calcutta got changed to Kolkata (never thought bengalis could be that stupid :wink: ) - and insist on writing "Calcutta" everytime I send any snail mail back home...

Thankfully, CP is still CP and not Rajiv Chowk, Marine Drive is still Marine Drive and not NS Bose Road, VT is still VT and not Chatrapati Shivaji Terminus :twisted:


Kindly repeat after me...

It is stupid of British to rename chennai/chennapatnam to Madras and I insist on writing it Chennai/chennapatnam every time I refer to Madras


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 04:35 
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Taking back the language, uncorrupting words - peeling away what has been deliberately overlaid in imitation of foreign rulers, is part of a process of cleansing. It is the same as the symbolic cleaning of taking a dip in the Ganga. No need to be ashamed of the dip in "polluted" waters because of "superstitious" H***** - since same "washing off" by dunking in the water is used in both the "great/democratic/progressive" proselytizers.

The real message is get rid of the layers of dirt - in this case linguistic - that has accumulated and corrupted. It is a conscious act of declaring freedom instead of mere formal independence. RamayY ji, jayatu!


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 04:47 
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viv wrote:
^^
Somnath: other than calling people 'stupid' what is your reason?

Partha: Chennai, Mumbai or Kolkata have reverted to the names supported by the local populace. On similar note I can understand preference for (say) Dilli over Delhi. Does the same apply to Bhopal? Is Bhojpal used by people?


Bengaluru has always been bengaluru, mysooru has always been mysooru, hubbali has always been hubbali...
some people like taking a bath, some prefer smelling yesterdays effort.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 05:00 
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The "uneducated" of all these places have always remained stubbornly repeating their traditional name for their place. Problem is with the formally "highly educated". Theirs is the shame at the "vernacular" version of their birthplace. Verna in Latin stands for "slave" born in his "master's house".


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 05:02 
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ManjaM wrote:
viv wrote:
^^
Somnath: other than calling people 'stupid' what is your reason?

Partha: Chennai, Mumbai or Kolkata have reverted to the names supported by the local populace. On similar note I can understand preference for (say) Dilli over Delhi. Does the same apply to Bhopal? Is Bhojpal used by people?


Bengaluru has always been bengaluru, mysooru has always been mysooru, hubbali has always been hubbali...


right..and those make immediate sense as do many others. I was curious about Bhopal == Bhojpal.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 05:50 
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Bji, good point!
Vivji, the earlier name of Bhopal was indeed Bhojpal but I am not sure when the 'j' was dropped.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 06:04 
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How did Chennapatnam become Madras? I see no connection. I think British pulled out the name Madras from their musharraf.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 06:10 
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^^multiple theories at 'madras.com'.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 06:13 
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partha wrote:
Bji, good point!
Vivji, the earlier name of Bhopal was indeed Bhojpal but I am not sure when the 'j' was dropped.


ok...however, the case seems to be weak if the regular junta does not use the term i.e. is it an indigenous modification or was it prescribed by the then ruling Angrez.


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 06:31 
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Its quite interesting when people refer to Tagore, Sharat, Bankim et al and their purported references to "Kolkata" versus "Calcutta"...Obviously the difference in syntax in various languages is lost on these people - they would have neither read Tagore and Bankim writing in bangla and referring to Kolkata, nor would they have read Amit Choudhuri and Upamanyu Chatterjee writing in English and referring to Calcutta..There isnt any dichotomy - the issue of renaming is about priorities..

In any case, its too subjective an issue to discuss beyond a point - my last post...


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 07:37 
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ramana wrote:
Our own brfite rips into the so called philanthropists of the world- wonderful read.

Buffett should learn our ethos of giving- R Vaidya


there are huge issues with the assumptions made in that article - X-posting my issues from the Economy thread..

The article is a mix-and-mash of truths, half-truths and legends to construct a "glorious India" picture and make snide ones on Buffet and Gates..


Quote:
Ratan Tata may be shy to point out to Bill Gates that ‘the Tata founders bequeathed most of their individual wealth to many trusts they created for the greater good of India and its people’. So is the case with G D Birla and Jamnalal Bajaj. This may not be trumpeted by Kumara Mangalam Birla and Rahul Bajaj

Only half correct, in fact maybe quarter or less The point on the Tatas is substantially true, though most of the stakes in individual Tata companies are with Tata sons, which is not only a philanthrophic organisation (TCS, for example for a long time used to be a division of Tata Sons)...But for the Tatas, it is a well made point..For all the others, Bajaj, Birla et al - it is absolutely wrong to say that "most" of their wealth was bequeathed to charitable trusts..Quite to the contrary, most of the wealth was carved up between various brothers of the clan, with disputes over them spilling over well in to the 21st century..the corpuses managed by the Bajaj and Birla charitable trusts are miniscule compared to the total wealth of the families...

Quote:
It is interesting that Bill Gates who has operations in Cayman islands and Reno of Nevada to minimise or evade taxes to be paid to the United States government is enthusiastic about “Giving by India Inc”.

This is a real clincher..I dont know whether Bill Gates has anything in Cayman, but Indian business worthies have not evaded taxes!!! the list of big tax evaders and "deliberate NPA creators" in India would be a roll call of honour of the business families...

Quote:
Somebody should also tell Bill Gates and Warren Buffett that India Inc constitutes less than 15 per cent of our GDP and the real growth masters are small partnership and proprietorship firms which are deeply involved in giving.

Where did this "15%" number come from? The % estimated for the US is variously put between 50 and 80%...

The question is not of "small time charity" done by people like us...As anyone in the philanthrphy business will tell you, the biggest challenge in the business is the ability to scale up...What Buffet and Gates are doing is to bequeath a very large estate, consisting of their vast paper wealth to a foundation...For Gates, that will be ~50 billion dollars..the foundation will have access to the income streams from this - assuming a dividend yield of 1.5%, that is an annual cash flow of 750 million dollars...Now that is game breaking...Something similar has been done by Azim Premji, and by the Tatas...To compare that against sponsorhip of wrstlers to the Asian Games is stretching the point to a breaking point..

Lets not get into a mentality of denigrating the "other" in order to glorify ourselves - for an IIM-B prof, not expected...Not expected at all...


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 07:51 
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^^^Interesting study on philanthrophy in India (and US)...

http://www.bain.com/bainweb/PDFs/cms/Pu ... Speech.pdf

Pertinent points:

1. US spends 2.2% of its GDP on philanthrophy, India 0.6%
2. Only 10% of India's "philanthrpohy" comes from individuals and corporations, for the US the number is 75%. this is the most impressive number - for India, most "charity" is done by the govt and overseas donor agencies..

People like the Tatas and Azim Premji need to be lauded, but its a bit silly denigrating the likes of Buffet and Gates (and American philanthrophy in general), given the numbers...


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 08:01 
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somnath wrote:
^^^Interesting study on philanthrophy in India (and US)...

http://www.bain.com/bainweb/PDFs/cms/Pu ... Speech.pdf

Pertinent points:

1. US spends 2.2% of its GDP on philanthrophy, India 0.6%
2. Only 10% of India's "philanthrpohy" comes from individuals and corporations, for the US the number is 75%. this is the most impressive number - for India, most "charity" is done by the govt and overseas donor agencies..

People like the Tatas and Azim Premji need to be lauded, but its a bit silly denigrating the likes of Buffet and Gates (and American philanthrophy in general), given the numbers...


One should study the whole article and comment.
same article quotes a few other things also regarding charities in Indian and US. please care to mention them. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 08:03 
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somnath wrote:
ramana wrote:
Our own brfite rips into the so called philanthropists of the world- wonderful read.

Buffett should learn our ethos of giving- R Vaidya


there are huge issues with the assumptions made in that article - X-posting my issues from the Economy thread..

The article is a mix-and-mash of truths, half-truths and legends to construct a "glorious India" picture and make snide ones on Buffet and Gates..


Quote:
Ratan Tata may be shy to point out to Bill Gates that ‘the Tata founders bequeathed most of their individual wealth to many trusts they created for the greater good of India and its people’. So is the case with G D Birla and Jamnalal Bajaj. This may not be trumpeted by Kumara Mangalam Birla and Rahul Bajaj

Only half correct, in fact maybe quarter or less The point on the Tatas is substantially true, though most of the stakes in individual Tata companies are with Tata sons, which is not only a philanthrophic organisation (TCS, for example for a long time used to be a division of Tata Sons)...But for the Tatas, it is a well made point..For all the others, Bajaj, Birla et al - it is absolutely wrong to say that "most" of their wealth was bequeathed to charitable trusts..Quite to the contrary, most of the wealth was carved up between various brothers of the clan, with disputes over them spilling over well in to the 21st century..the corpuses managed by the Bajaj and Birla charitable trusts are miniscule compared to the total wealth of the families...

Quote:
It is interesting that Bill Gates who has operations in Cayman islands and Reno of Nevada to minimise or evade taxes to be paid to the United States government is enthusiastic about “Giving by India Inc”.

This is a real clincher..I dont know whether Bill Gates has anything in Cayman, but Indian business worthies have not evaded taxes!!! the list of big tax evaders and "deliberate NPA creators" in India would be a roll call of honour of the business families...

Quote:
Somebody should also tell Bill Gates and Warren Buffett that India Inc constitutes less than 15 per cent of our GDP and the real growth masters are small partnership and proprietorship firms which are deeply involved in giving.

Where did this "15%" number come from? The % estimated for the US is variously put between 50 and 80%...

The question is not of "small time charity" done by people like us...As anyone in the philanthrphy business will tell you, the biggest challenge in the business is the ability to scale up...What Buffet and Gates are doing is to bequeath a very large estate, consisting of their vast paper wealth to a foundation...For Gates, that will be ~50 billion dollars..the foundation will have access to the income streams from this - assuming a dividend yield of 1.5%, that is an annual cash flow of 750 million dollars...Now that is game breaking...Something similar has been done by Azim Premji, and by the Tatas...To compare that against sponsorhip of wrstlers to the Asian Games is stretching the point to a breaking point..

Lets not get into a mentality of denigrating the "other" in order to glorify ourselves - for an IIM-B prof, not expected...Not expected at all...


This quoted by me and replied in
viewtopic.php?p=1056825#p1056825


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 08:55 
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http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/03/ ... 7823.shtml
India captures 16 pirates after 3-hour battle
Indian navy also rescues 16 crew members held hostage by pirates who had taken trawler off Indian coast
Quote:
AP) NEW DELHI - India's navy and coast guard have captured 16 Somali pirates after a three-hour-long battle in the Arabian Sea, a navy spokesman said Monday.Also, 16 crew members who had been taken hostage by the pirates were rescued from the hijacked Iranian trawler off India's western Lakshadweep islands on Sunday, Captain Manohar Nambiar said.The pirates were using the trawler as a roving pirate base to launch attacks on passing vessels in the Indian Ocean, he said.The pirates were trying to seize a merchant ship, MV Maersk Kensington, when a coast guard vessel and an Indian naval ship picked up its distress signals and went to its aid.The pirates opened fire at the coast guard ship as it drew near, triggering a battle during which the pirate trawler caught fire. The pirates and the hostages, picked up from the sea by the navy ship, were headed for Mumbai.Of the 16 hostages, 12 are Iranians and four are Pakistanis, the navy spokesman said."The pirates will be handed over to the Mumbai police for prosecution. The crew members will be questioned to establish their credentials and then handed over to their embassy officials," Nambiar said.The Indian navy has seized around 120 pirates, mostly from Somalia, over the past few months. Two weeks ago, the navy captured 61 pirates when they attacked a naval ship.Indian warships have been escorting merchant ships as part of international anti-piracy


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 Post subject: Re: Indian Interests
PostPosted: 29 Mar 2011 08:58 
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krisna wrote:
same article quotes a few other things also regarding charities in Indian and US. please care to mention them

Which ones are you referring to?

Crux of the argument is tht there is a lot that has been done in the US, the Gates Foundation is one..We can lern from that...there are Indian examples, and they need to be lauded...But neither do we need to invent more "glory" than is there (there are bright pockets - but few and far between), nor attribute malfeasence to the likes of Gates in order to draw any lessons...Numbers tell the story..


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