2011 Japanese Earthquake and Tsunami - News and Analysis

[Amber G.]

^^^ add to above, not to mention about 40 mrem (0.4 mSv) from your own body's 'highly' radioactive K40's gamma rays.. ( K40 half life is millions of years ) in a year alone. (4 mSv in 10 years). Be afraid, very afraid

(Moral of the story: Lanka Dahan taught us, fire kills, but don't let them make you afraid of using a stove.)

[Amber G.]

Since there are, still many news paper articles, and posts here in BRF talking about “dangerous”, “very high” radiation without much quantitative perspective, here is one more message, which I hope will be helpful.
Much like, knowing electricity is dangerous and one should be careful with interacting with high voltages, one should not be needlessly nervous about 1500000 microvolt AA battery in one’s flashlight.
It pays to be more familiar with radiation too.
So I went around my house, with a radiation meter. You don’t have to take my word for it, just use a radiation meter, if you can get hold of it (or go to a physics lab, or a hospital etc where you have access to a radiation meter). Here is what I see:
Salt substitute (KCl): about 20 times background from about a spoonful sprinkled on a plate.
(Because of K40)
Gas Mantle (House has an old decorative gas light we still use – but similar to kerosene lamps which are used in camping or in a Shadi for light): Thousands of cpm (hundreds of times of background). If completely consumed (it crumbles and can even go in lungs) I estimated a single mantle will be about 3mSv. (high radioactivity is due to Thorium)
Smoke Alarm: (Am) : Well this is well known. (cpm goes up in tens of thousands..if probe is close enough)
Old antique glass ( It contains about 1% Uranium). .. very high.

Also, I have an old brush (to clean 35mm negatives), a duster (to clean LP records) which are very highly radioactive.
And wall of the house (bricks), neighbor’s kitty litter, banana, brazil nuts, Tritium in the watch.. and so on.
Radiation is everywhere. Key point is to know what level is dangerous.

[Amber G.]

Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea

Slightly disappointed, how about using "DMHO" instead of "water".

Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water DMHO at sea

[Amber G.]

Lalmohan - BTW, wrt to "gal": it's a unit of acceleration, in honor of Galileo. It's cgs unit. (1cm/sec^2 or 1dyne/gm) GCS units (like dyne, erg) went out of fashion long ago but some still use it and is accepted as secondary SI unit. SI unit, of course, is "m/s^2". (Sorry if you already knew that)

[chaanakya]

^^^ I do have one request, please do understand that I have used the term "whole body dose" and not used "annual dose".. I say this only because, Chaanakya , incredibly insist on misquoting me as he has done, again and again, in the past, for example:

Safe annual radiation absorbed limit in mSv is 1000 mSv as repeatedly dinned to brf members

Here is original post about 1000 mSV
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... v#p1054997

Please read is carefully..(I have even emphasized the whole body part, and no "annul" appears there .. and see, if it was "dined to brf members")

Yet it did not prevent him to add "annual", not to mention, highly dishonest and misleading characterization such as "dined to brf members"
and then instead of correcting himself, proceeded to post.. well his usual quality posts.

One can understand the attempt to misguide mislead and and be blind to what is the correct position in the whole
discourse.This happens when one is cocksure of what he knows is the only right and anything else is wrong. In one's attempt to divert the attention from the issue at hand , jargons are thrown about as if they are from biblr and one need not question them as they happen to teach for 30 or so years. But one can be woollyheaded. I have attempted to ignore the posts but that seems to hurt them more. Ramana garu I am sorry if you find my response unacceptable. But let me assure you that I had least intention to reply great teachers and post about tsunami, quake and fukushima nuke disaster which are as yet unfolding.

So dear amber you were talking about annual dose.

So here is the link which I quoted

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1054097
It does talk about safe annual radiation dose limit, if you care to read enough.

When one talks about workers working in different industries including industries where radiation is one of the occupational hazard, higher limits are set. In cases of emergency the limits are set even higher "only" for those who are drafted for such works and they are assumed to be aware of such doses and its attendant risk. One might like to refer to occupational hazard.

When annual Radiation dose limit is talked about , the class of persons such limit applies to is strictly defined. So unless such a class is indicated it is always about General Public where consent is not required for safe annual radiation dose limits. Anything above that defined limit is problematic and public needs to be made aware of. That is why evacuation zones are set up based on such limits.

Of course you would have arrogated to yourself the reference since you thought that you are "the competent" person to talk about radiation limit in mSV and others are wrong. You have not yet given the amount of radiation a person would receive in 16 days if radiation is 3.84 mSv/hr as was reported. You might talk about whole body, living inside house or taking protective measures, but that would only serve to limit .

As for annual thingy that has got you here are some reference for your enlightenment

http://www.ndt-ed.org/EducationResource ... posure.htm

Non-radiation Workers and the Public
The dose limit to non-radiation workers and members of the public are two percent of the annual occupational dose limit. Therefore, a non-radiation worker can receive a whole body dose of no more that 0.1 rem/year from industrial ionizing radiation. This exposure would be in addition to the 0.3 rem/year from natural background radiation and the 0.05 rem/year from man-made sources such as medical x-rays.

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1994/safe-0105.html

Average Natural Background: 300 Millirems
The average exposure in the United States, from natural sources of radiation (mostly cosmic radiation and radon), is 300 millirems per year at sea level. Radiation exposure is slightly higher at higher elevations-thus the exposure in Denver averages 400 millirems per year.

(A milliRem is 1/1000th of a Rem. According to McGraw-Hill's Dictionary of Scientific and Technical Terms, a Rem is a unit of ionizing radiation equal to the amount that produces the same damage to humans as one roentgen of high-voltage x-rays. The name is derived from "Roentgen equivalent man." Wilhelm Roentgen discovered ionizing radiation in 1895 at about the same time that Pierre and Marie Curie discovered radium.)

All of these limits are for the amount of radiation exposure in addition to background radiation and medical radiation.

Adult: 5,000 Millirems
The current federal occupational limit of exposure per year for an adult (the limit for a worker using radiation) is "as low as reasonably achievable; however, not to exceed 5,000 millirems" above the 300+ millirems of natural sources of radiation and any medical radiation. Radiation workers wear badges made of photographic film which indicate the exposure to radiation. Readings typically are taken monthly. A federal advisory committee recommends that the lifetime exposure be limited to a person's age multiplied by 1,000 millirems (example: for a 65-year-old person, 65,000 millirems).

Mind you these limits are in addition to background radiations or even banana radiations. Ooops I see, this site is from MIT.


Here is another one talking about Annual ---ooops sorry, this seems from Princeton
http://web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/radm ... _sec_6.htm

Annual Radiation Dose Limits (top)

Each worker who is monitored for external or internal radiation exposure at the University is notified about the doses he or she receives. For example, a worker who is notified that that he or she received a whole body dose of 50 millirems (mrem) and a shallow skin dose of 150 mrem during a quarter will note that this constitutes 1% and 0.3%, respectively, of the appropriate annual limits. (See the table below for a listing of the dose limits established by the state of New Jersey).

And do check this one from same university.
http://web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/osra ... imits2.htm

This one is from Canada
http://www.mcgill.ca/ehs/radiation/manual/3/

The effective dose limit for Nuclear Energy Workers, as prescribed by the CNSC, is 100 mSv (10,000 mrem) for 5 years (with a maximum of 50 mSv in any given year or an average of 20 mSv/yr for 5 years) for whole-body exposure. For Radiation Users and "members of the public" the corresponding limit is 1 mSv (100 mrem) per year.

http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-colle ... ation.html

Above background levels of radiation exposure, the NRC requires that its licensees limit maximum radiation exposure to individual members of the public to 100 mrem (1mSv) per year, and limit occupational radiation exposure to adults working with radioactive material to 5,000 mrem (50 mSv) per year. NRC regulations and radiation exposure limits are contained in Title 10 of the Code of Federal Regulations, Part 20.

And this is from UK
http://www.hse.gov.uk/radiation/ionising/doses/

The limits on effective dose (dose to the whole body) introduced by the IRR99 to replace the limits set previously by the IRR85 are:

for employees aged 18 years or over, 20 millisieverts in a calendar year (except that in special cases employers may apply a dose limit of 100 millisieverts in 5 years with no more than 50 millisieverts in a single year, subject to strict conditions);
for trainees, 6 millisieverts in a calendar year; and
for any other person, including members of the public and employees under 18 who cannot be classed as trainees, 1 millisievert in a calendar year.

Well looks like "Annual" "a calendar year" etc are very much part of Radiation dose limit regulation. Also note that these limits are set over and above the natural background radiations which may vary from place to place. There are limits for internal radiations which is over and above the internal radiations from natural sources.

Now, the general public is not "Supposed to be exposed" to a higher radiation dose exceeding the limits prescribed. As for other cases , such as x-ray, CT scan or Airport radiation or radiation due to flying or higher radiation doses for workers involved in various situations/industries using radiation, higher limits are given. The assumptions is that they are Protected by appropriate safety protocols, aware of the risk and willing to take that risk, and benefits outweighs the risk etc.

Now one may be able to note , if not common sensically challenged , that current dose is 1 mSv per annum over and above the natural radiation. While in 1927 it was equivalent of 1000 mSV. One need not quote Tajmahal as several units are devised later but can easily be worked backward and see the equivalent dose limit.

I have seen persistent attempt to misinform the members and mis-represent the facts or misinterpret the posts and obfuscate the postings in order to divert the attention from the various issues raised. I have least time and patience to reply to such attempts that too coming from a supposedly esteemed member of teaching community for whom I have but highest regard.



Perhaps you would be so gracious to tell us if dumping of radiaoactive water in sea is an appropriate or approved means of disposal. What would be reaction in USA.

One can say this easily. But then I see they also talk about "annual " oops..

ccording to the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency, even if one eats 200 grams of fish caught within a 1-km radius of the Fukushima plant each day, the cumulative radiation exposure over a year would amount to 0.6 millisieverts, which is below the 1.0 millisieverts recommended in one year.

Of course one has pointed to highly beneficial effects of radiation ( other than industrial and medical use) on biological forms including humans with ideas such as hearium and radiation tonic alluded to in earlier posts.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1055127

and here

Preparations containing Radium, sold as part of the magical new age, as the elixir of life, became incorporated into a wide range of nostrums. There were Radium-containing general tonics, hair restorers, toothpastes and cures for all ills from arthritis to infertility. A hearing-aid was marketed with the magic ingredient, `hearium'. One most popular and widely used preparation was `Radium water', often referred to as `liquid sunshine'. One company in New York claimed to supply 150,000 customers with radium water. Another brand, `radithor' was so radioactive that several users died from Radium poisoning. One of these, a Pittsburgh industrialist and amateur golf champion, Eben Byers, drank a two-ounce bottle daily for several years; he believed it made him fit, and pressed it on his friends. He died of multiple decay of the jawbone, anaemia and a brain abscess in 1932.

And yes I will continue to post as long as I am not told not to. If that bothers you, that is your problem.

[chaanakya]

Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water at sea

Slightly disappointed, how about using "DMHO" instead of "water".

Japan to dump 11,500 tons of radioactive water DMHO at sea

Ahhh so I see one is slightly disappointed. Pray, for what? Afterall some scientist would have advised TEPCO that it would not be a hazard. They will give you more occasion to feel disappointed. The story is just beginning. We might see Fukushima Fish. Highly nutritious and radiative.

[Amber G.]

And yes I will continue to post as long as I am not told not to. If that bothers you, that is your problem.

Chaanakya - To point out the obvious, post away, posting part is not what bothered me. It is just the dishonesty, and disrespect you have shown, and continue to show. As I said in the previous post, a clear post, such as:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... v#p1054997
is described as "Safe annual radiation absorbed limit in mSv is 1000 mSv as repeatedly dinned to brf members" by you.

But you are right, as you said in your own words:

I do not wish to respond or correct my posts except as already corrected by me FWIW./smile/ and not want to be answered as well. Please ignore my posts. I am dense dear lightheaded. Thanks.

(Link: Chaanakya's post link
I am going to do precisely the same and ignore your posts (specially ones which makes no sense to me).. (As you may or may not have figured out by now that the "calculation" in that post of yours, is so full of errors, that I am not surprised that you think 1 mSv/yr is serious, while 3 mSv/year is an average background radiation. but... as they say "यस्य नास्ति स्वयं प्रज्ञा शास्त्रं तस्य करोति किम?"

P.S - If there is something, which you really want to ask or want to understand about what I have posted, if asked in a clear precise way may get a response from me.

[Amber G.]

Perhaps you would be so gracious to tell us if dumping of radiaoactive water in sea is an appropriate or approved means of disposal. What would be reaction in USA.

This seem to be a reasonable question to discuss. The treatment of water, in US (and India) is serious business. We mush make sure it is safe from radioactivity (in addition to chemical and biological agents.

Let me first talk about ground water or water which may escape into ponds/lakes. I will talk about sea water later.

Disclaimer, I am no expert, I do know physics very well and can understand the process, and I do not speak for nuke-lobby. So people like Chaanakya can stop reading here. (Or at least, do not throw disrespectful flaim-baits /sigh/)

For details check out key word like “NORM” (Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials) and TENORM (Technologically Enhanced Radioactive Material – added due to things like NPP etc).
For NORM, Three principal components – (Ra, Th, U (and their decay products)

I will let you read http://www.epa.gov/rpdweb00/tenorm/drinking-water.html
(For practical knowledge: H3 – Can’t do much to treat, move away/don't drink the water, Cs – Can’t use filtration but reverse osmosis – I saw these unit, in homes in India when II visited India – will work, etc.. but please do read the above and other resources.. don’t blame me /smile/)
For Sea Water wrt present NPP in Japan:
(From what we know (from published reports, IAEA, what I can reasonably expect from my knowledge, and feedback from people who know)
Amount: about 10,000 tons.
(None of the nasty stuff – U, Pu fortunately is not there.. One can filter most of the stuff..No H3 (half life about 12 years so more serious)..etc...)
Only item of concern – Iodine. (Half life 8 days – in about 3 months activity will go down 1/2000 times)
Fish caught in the sea – (and I am sure these things will be monitored) – not of concern. (Even if you eat a lot, it will be still safe).
Primary concern - Sea-weed but radioactivity will still be very small and is temporary (few months for Iodine).
Of course, I have not seen all the reports, far from it. I am not a official spokesperson /smile/ JMHO, Take it FWIW etc ..

[Theo_Fidel]

However they were overlooked, leading to resignations of the people involved in protest over neglect of safety issues.

One gets the feeling that the Japanese thought that if a 9.0 struck it would pretty much end everything. So why bother worrying about the nuclear stuff.

[saip]

All you ever wanted to know about DHMO, but were afraid to ask.

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

[arnab]

Perhaps you would be so gracious to tell us if dumping of radiaoactive water in sea is an appropriate or approved means of disposal. What would be reaction in USA.

This seem to be a reasonable question to discuss. The treatment of water, in US (and India) is serious business. We mush make sure it is safe from radioactivity (in addition to chemical and biological agents.

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsu ... ate01.html

NISA have advised the IAEA that TEPCO have been given permission by the Government of Japan to discharge 10 000 ton of low level contaminated water from their radioactive waste treatment facility to the sea. This is in order to have sufficient capacity to store highly contaminated water found in the basement of the Unit 2 Turbine Building.

TEPCO has estimated that the potential additional annual dose to a member of the public would be approximately 0.6 millisieverts (mSv), if they ate seaweed and seafood caught, from near the plant, every day for a year.

[Amber G.]

http://www.iaea.org/newscenter/news/tsu ... ate01.html

TEPCO has estimated that the potential additional annual dose to a member of the public would be approximately 0.6 millisieverts (mSv), if they ate seaweed and seafood caught, from near the plant, every day for a year.

Thanks for the source, and quantitative perspective. Just to add, for both seaweed and seafood (also for sea salt too ) primary item is Iodine. (Food is rich in Iodine). The half-life of I-131 is about 8 days.

[arnab]

Meanwhile;

http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/co ... 6034038431

TEN coal miners have been killed in a gas explosion inside their shaft in north-western China.

The official Xinhua News Agency says the explosion on Saturday left the shaft outside the Xinjiang regional capital of Urumqi filled with poisonous gas that had to be pumped out before bodies could be recovered.

Xinhua says in today's report that the cause of the blast is under investigation, but such explosions are a frequent cause of death in Chinese mines, where proper ventilation and other safety features are often lacking.

China's insatiable demand for coal to fuel its economy prompts many mine operators to skirt safety rules to maximise production.

More than 2600 people died in mining accidents in China in 2009, though deaths have decreased in recent years.

So since the Tsunami; the score is: Coal = 55 (45 in Pak and 10 in China) and Nuke = 0

[GuruPrabhu]

One gets the feeling that the Japanese thought that if a 9.0 struck it would pretty much end everything. So why bother worrying about the nuclear stuff.

There is probably much truth in that statement. However, Saar, I am awaiting your response to your statement about "dead men walking". Are you to simply drop that bomb and walk away innocently? Or, will we get to read some justification to that incendiary remark?

[GuruPrabhu]

meanwhile, the criminal coal and oil mafia continues to rape the planet. Posting in full because of its timeliness and relevance.

http://money.cnn.com/2011/04/04/news/ec ... /index.htm

Brazen assault on the EPA

LAGUNA NIGUEL, Calif. (CNNMoney) -- Environmental Defense Fund President Fred Krupp came out swinging at this year's FORTUNE Brainstorm Green conference, forcefully calling out Exxon (XOM, Fortune 500), Big Oil, the coal industry and lawmakers on Capitol Hill for their efforts to weaken the Environmental Protection Agency's power.

"Never in four decades has there ever been this brazen assault on the Environmental Protection Agency's ability to protect our health," said Krupp. "In the House they've already passed an amendment that would mean the EPA couldn't enforce its effort to clean mercury from the air."

The EPA has been ordered by the courts to regulate greenhouse gases after the agency ruled that they are a danger to public health.

Some lawmakers, from both sides of the aisle, are scrambling to strip the EPA of this power, and even roll back some of its other regulatory responsibilities. They are concerned that regulating greenhouse gases will be too costly.

Krupp said that Exxon has been pushing its employees and even its retired employees to ask Washington to weaken the EPA because it's afraid of being forced to clean up its emissions. He called that the industry's biggest subsidy.

"Exxon wants that this big loophole of not having to clean up its emissions to continue," he said. "That's the biggest subsidy for the oil companies, that's the biggest subsidy for the coal companies, the fact that they're not required to have their products burn cleanly."

Exxon disagreed with Krupp's characterization of the company's motivation but said that EPA should not be taking the lead in regulating greenhouse gases.

"EPA plays a vital role in protecting our nation's health and environment, and these proposals do not prevent the EPA from addressing harmful air pollution," said Allan Jeffries, an Exxon spokesman. "However, Congress, not EPA, is the appropriate body to address comprehensive U.S. energy and climate policy."

Fortune's Brainstorm Green conference comes amid the ongoing nuclear tragedy in Japan and with the one-year anniversary of BP's Gulf of Mexico disaster around the corner. Those two events have left many wondering about our energy alternatives.

The coal mafia in India is not far behind in screwing the public interest.

[Sanku]

Whats this immense ******** about getting in roadway deaths, fishing deaths yada yada yada in the discussion? Clearly it is an attempt to destroy serious discussion by bringing up irrelevant issues taken out of context?

[GuruPrabhu]

The people in the coal mafia and their chamchas will work overtime to push their agenda and deflect any criticism away from their criminal behavior. Thankfully, the nation is smart and alert to these lowlife attempts at falsehoods. Jai Bharat!

[Sanku]

There is a thread for the same, please discuss all relevant issues there. Stop trolling on this one.

[GuruPrabhu]

So since the Tsunami; the score is: Coal = 55 (45 in Pak and 10 in China) and Nuke = 0

That is only since the tsunami. If we were to add up the score for the last 3-4 decades, coal comes out to be a routine Mega-killer of its employees. Not just in China, but around the world. Just in the last few years, there were several serious incidents of mine disasters in the US. These are all glossed over by the media that is hysterical over Fukushima.

[chaanakya]

Whats this immense ******** about getting in roadway deaths, fishing deaths yada yada yada in the discussion? Clearly it is an attempt to destroy serious discussion by bringing up irrelevant issues taken out of context?

Well this seems to be the norm here. The argument seems to be that statistically speaking people are going to die anyway either due to road accident or murder or suicide or that, coal is biggest polluter etc, so why bother with man made radiation. Anyway there is naturally occurring and background radiation. Above all we have goodness of banana is mysteriously transferred to radioactive pollutions. One scientist wants to eat plutonium to prove that is is less toxic pound by pound then caffeine if the opponent eats caffeine He fails to know that one need not prove caffeine is harmful , that is known to mankind. He needs to prove that plutonium is not toxic or less toxic. Another one says that he would have resided in the vicinity of nuclear plant but for the fact that they were so ugly. Well poor people, whose life anyway has least value as shown by callous comments of some , don't have that liberty.
The obfuscation by some is really incredible. Besides taking one line and running away with it while putting hundreds of caveat to their assertions so that they can claim FWIW or don't hold me responsible etc all in attempt to change the direction of the thread.

[Singha]

most of the imported fish consumed in sher khan comes from the seas and coastal farms of indonesia, cambodia, vietnam and china. given what china is doing to its environment, a little bit of fujushima extering the matrix is probably not a high concern. indonesia is hopefully far away and upcurrent of the japanese isles.

all the posion of the 'western world' usually ends up in currents that carry into the artic and there they eddy around. a doctor found it while testing the breast milk of eskimo women they had very high levels of dangerous stuff. courtesy the eastern seaboard of sher khan.

so maybe any fallout of fukushima will end up in kamchatka, aleutian islands and alaska (king crabs and salmon!)

[arnab]

Well poor people, whose life anyway has least value as shown by callous comments of some , don't have that liberty.
The obfuscation by some is really incredible.

hmm though I'm not sure how the 'poor' people are being served by focusing on the irrational fear of an energy technology that hasn't killed anyone and absolving the other forms of energy technology which kill far more. Is the concern for the poor driving the posters? Or the need to learn / educate? Or is it demagoguery to link the element of 'risk' with the activities of a certain political party?

[GuruPrabhu]

I'm not sure how the 'poor' people are being served by focusing on the irrational fear of an energy technology that hasn't killed anyone and absolving the other forms of energy technology which kill far more.

Amazing how such a simple and rudimentary question is being avoided by multi-dimensional song and dance in enlarged extra dimensions of hyperbolae.

Or is it demagoguery to link the element of 'risk' with the activities of a certain political party?

Bingo!

[Sanku]

Yes the dishonesty in incredible, almost TEPCO like....

But whats this about condolence money ?

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/japa ... um=twitter

Japan's nuclear plant operator pays "condolence money"

TOKYO, April 5 (Reuters) - The operator of Japan's crippled nuclear power plant started paying "condolence money" on Tuesday to victims of the worst nuclear crisis since Chernobyl while it kept pouring radioactive water into the sea.

==========================

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/ ... ernational

(Reuters) - Japan has asked Russia to send a floating radiation treatment plant, used to decommission nuclear submarines, which will solidify contaminated liquid waste from the country's crippled nuclear power plant, Russian media reported.

[GuruPrabhu]

"Clean-Coal" Disaster 100 Times Larger Than Exxon Valdez

http://www.celsias.com/article/clean-co ... on-valdez/

Last week, the wet coal storage pond at the Tennessee Valley Authority's Kingston Fossil Plant breached and a massive amount of ashen sludge poured into nearby residential areas as well as the Emory River, a tributary of the Tennessee River, which is the source of drinking water for millions of people. The TVA is currently vouching for the potability of the drinking water - that's their story and they're sticking to it - but any skepticism which may exist among those who consume the water is understandable when faced with the reality of dead fish washing up on shore en masse.

read it all, to counter the snake oil salesmen:

Environmentalists said the spill, more than 30 times larger than the Exxon Valdez oil spill, belied the notion of the "clean coal" technology that the industry has spent millions to promote.

[arnab]

But whats this about condolence money ?

http://www.trust.org/alertnet/news/japa ... um=twitter

Japan's nuclear plant operator pays "condolence money"

TEPCO said on Tuesday it had started paying "condolence money" to local governments to aid people evacuated from around its stricken plant or affected by the radiation crisis.

For railway deaths / injuries GOI pays compensation. Do they pay for loss of work opportunities due to the accident? Poor people do not have the option of accessing different means of transportation.

[Sanku]

hmm though I'm not sure how the 'poor' people are being served by focusing on the irrational fear of an energy technology that hasn't killed anyone and absolving the other forms of energy technology which kill far more.

Its simple,
the fear is real as seen on ground and ostrich like denials are going to only piss off people.
No one is absolving anyone else. If there are any issues of a coal plant posing a sustained risk due to the current disaster in Japan, please post the link otherwise stop derailing the thread.

What part of
2001
Japanese
Earthquake
&
Tsunami

Is so difficult to get for some folks here?

[GuruPrabhu]

For railway deaths / injuries GOI pays compensation.

But, these are paltry sums like Rs 1 lakh per dead person or something like that. And the media plays along and swallows it.

However, for nuke power, a liability insurance of Rs 1,000,000,000,000 is still probably not enough.

[arnab]

Its simple, the fear is real as seen on ground and ostrich like denials are going to only piss off people.
No one is absolving anyone else. If there are any issues of a coal plant posing a sustained risk due to the current disaster in Japan, please post the link otherwise stop derailing the thread.


Is so difficult to get for some folks here?

What does 'fear is real as seen on the ground' mean? And 'ostrich like denial'? Nobody is denying that people are afraid. Folks here are only saying that they needn't be and are quoting data for perspective. Now the response can be - 'let us understand' or 'I don't care what you say I will continue to be afraid and will be very pissed off if you deny me my right to fear'

Ok Jharia coal field disaster which still continues today?

More than 400,000 people who reside in Jharia are living on land in danger of subsidence due to the fires, and according to Brinda Karat, "Jharia township is on the brink of an ecological and human disaster." [21]. The government has been criticized for a perceived lackadaisical attitude[22] towards the safety of the people of Jharia.[23] Heavy fumes emitted by the fires [24] lead to severe health problems such as breathing disorders and skin diseases among the local population [25].

[Sanku]

For railway deaths / injuries GOI pays compensation. Do they pay for loss of work opportunities due to the accident? Poor people do not have the option of accessing different means of transportation.

Well I am aware that thread derailing is a fun game for folks -- but to answer the obvious kindergarten people.

Railways do pay compensation to people who die or are injured or are forced to move houses because of railways.

But, these are paltry sums like Rs 1 lakh per dead person or something like that. And the media plays along and swallows it.

However, for nuke power, a liability insurance of Rs 1,000,000,000,000 is still probably not enough.

So you dont know but dont mind pulling yet another "fact" out of your Musharraff.

http://logisticsweek.com/news/2010/12/p ... -railways/

Payment of Compensation by Indian Railways

By NewsDesk

News,Rail 124 days ago
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Railways are liable to pay compensation to railway passengers in case of death/injury in train accidents as defined in Section 124 of the Railways Act, 1989. The amount of compensation payable is Rs. 4 lakh in case of death and Rs. 32000 to Rs. 4 lakh in case of injury depending upon the gravity of the injury, which is decided by Railway Claims Tribunal (RCT) after a claim for compensation is filed in RCT.

The amount of compensation paid by the Railways for death/injury of passengers in train accidents during last three years is Rs. 121.37 lakh in 2007-08, Rs. 218.94 lakh in 2008-09 and Rs. 265.81 lakh during 2009-10.

In case of death/injury in train accident, it is the responsibility of the Indian Railways under the Railways Act, 1989 to pay compensation as decreed by the Railway Claims Tribunal. The insurance cover bought from general insurers is an internal mechanism to get the reimbursement of the compensation paid by the Railways to the claimants. Payment of compensation to the victims of train accidents does not get affected whether insurance cover is available or otherwise.

This information was given by the Minister of State for Railways, Shri K.H. Muniyappa in a written reply in Lok Sabha today.

Source: PIB

I know that you guys are desperately trying to deflect attention, unfortunately given your low awareness of world at large you are making statements that are making you dig deeper into ground.

[GuruPrabhu]

oh my, sorry goodness golly, it is the princely sum of Rs. 4 lakhs only!! A bit cheap, eh?

An Indian citizen should only hope to die under a nuke disaster than by the GOI owned railways. The nuke disaster payment is pegged to international rates and what not amounting to insurance levels of $400 M or $1B or whatever the latest Babu-figure is.

Why would poor slobs KILLED by GOI via their railways hope for international rates of retribution?

[by the way, ask google chacha and you will find plenty of references to Rs 1 lakh payment. The new babu-pay-commission probably upped it to 4 lakhs in a singular display of generosity.]

[Sanku]

What does 'fear is real as seen on the ground' mean? And 'ostrich like denial'? Nobody is denying that people are afraid. Folks here are only saying that they needn't be and are quoting data for perspective.

Quoting IRRELEVANT data does not give perspective.

Ok Jharia coal field disaster which still continues today?

Trying once more---

What part of
2001
Japanese
Earthquake
&
Tsunami

Is so difficult to get for some folks here?

-------------

Or is it the claim that since people died in Japan disaster and people died elsewhere discussion on any topic which includes death is related?

[arnab]

Well I am aware that thread derailing is a fun game for folks -- but to answer the obvious kindergarten people.

Railways do pay compensation to people who die or are injured or are forced to move houses because of railways.

I said as much that GOI ( or Railways) does pay for death / injury in a train accident. But do they pay the daily wage workers who are unable to get to their place of work because the train is not running? (I presume the 'moving houses' bit is if railways wants to acquire your property to lay a track or something).

[Sanku]

An Indian citizen should only hope to die under a nuke disaster than by the GOI owned railways. The nuke disaster payment is pegged to international rates and what not amounting to insurance levels of $400 M or $1B or whatever the latest Babu-figure is.

Despite your naked hate for all things Indian, and supremacy of all things international (US) the above is yet another statement which is pulled out of your musharraf.

Also goes to show your naked cavalier attitude towards Indian lives.

[Sanku]

I said as much that GOI ( or Railways) does pay for death / injury in a train accident. But do they pay the daily wage workers who are unable to get to their place of work because the train is not running? (I presume the 'moving houses' bit is if railways wants to acquire your property to lay a track or something).

Are you feeling all right? What is the relevance of the above in this thread?

No payment is made to people who are not directly affected by the nuclear plant.

[GuruPrabhu]

Let us say that Rs 4 lakhs is approximately $ 10k. So, a liability insurance of $400M says that 400M/10K = 40,000 people will be affected by a nuke accident. Even in this Japanese FUBAR incident, the number of dead is ZERO. Long ways to go before we hit 40k. So, whose madarsa math is being followed?

[arnab]

Quoting IRRELEVANT data does not give perspective.

Ok Jharia coal field disaster which still continues today?

Trying once more---

What part of
2001
Japanese
Earthquake
&
Tsunami

Is so difficult to get for some folks here?

But in the earlier post you asked for a sustained coal related disaster? I provided one. It is continuing to this day but no compensation is being paid to these poor people.

Well 'relevance' is a matter of perspective. A poster may scream 'TEPCO is dumping radioactive water in the sea'!! I'm sure this little factoid adds a lot to our knowledge Some one else may add that 'TEPCO has been granted permission by the Japanese govt to dump 10,000 tonnes of low level toxic water in the sea with the overall impact of 0.5 msv radiation if people have seaweeds from around that area every day for one year'. You decide which bit is more informative.

[Sanku]

Let us say that Rs 4 lakhs is approximately $ 10k. So, a liability insurance of $400M says that 400M/10K = 40,000 people will be affected by a nuke accident. Even in this Japanese FUBAR incident, the number of dead is ZERO. Long ways to go before we hit 40k. So, whose madarsa math is being followed?

Madarassa math is your specialty; ignorance coupled with blatant foul mouthed hate to India and Indians which you proudly wear on your sleeve.

You conveniently omit

Railways pays compensation up to 4 Lakhs per person for either of

1) Injury
2) death.

Also Railways will compensation for direct actions causing loss to people such as moving out of a given area.

In this very expected and one of many Nuclear fallout incidents, the Nuclear plant will be forced to pay for long term damages.

For how many years after a train accident is the next 80sq km plus area a waste land?

[GuruPrabhu]

An Indian citizen should only hope to die under a nuke disaster than by the GOI owned railways. The nuke disaster payment is pegged to international rates and what not amounting to insurance levels of $400 M or $1B or whatever the latest Babu-figure is.

Despite your naked hate for all things Indian, and supremacy of all things international (US) the above is yet another statement which is pulled out of your musharraf.

Also goes to show your naked cavalier attitude towards Indian lives.

yes, saar, Sanku saar, I have been pointing out to Mods that you have nothing but CHEAP personal attacks. You are shallow and unworthy of discussion in a civilized forum. Yet, my attempts to get you to dissuade from chavanni chaap comments have not registered in your puerile brain.

A sad human being such as yourself with "remote vestigial intelligence" should by now have caught on that your commentary is about as useful as the seventh wheel in a car.

Please play with yourself in a corner and leave this discussion to grown-ups. BYE.

[arnab]

No payment is made to people who are not directly affected by the nuclear plant.

Ah but TEPCO is paying 'condolence money' to the local govt to aid people who have had to temporarily vacate houses or have been otherwise impacted by the radiation such as loss of livelihood. Does railway pay the daily wage workers for their loss of livelihood?