Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

manum · Post by **manum** » 29 Apr 2011 16:43

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 115020.cms

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan today successfully tested the nuclear-capable Hatf-VIII or Raad cruise missile which has a range of 350 kms, the military announced.

The indigenously developed low-flying stealth design missile, which can carry a nuclear or a conventional warhead, was tested at an undisclosed location.

The Inter-Services Public Relations said the test of the missile Raad was successful.

The Raad, meaning thunder in Arabic, which was tested for the first time in August 2007, can be launched from combat aircraft.

interesting development...should it be seen in continuity to NASR aimed at our CSD...which no one is sure is existent or not.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 29 Apr 2011 17:50

Just curious - how are they testing new missiles every now and then? Who is supplying them with all this stuff?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 29 Apr 2011 18:24

It is just a pilot of the translation process

New manuals from China arrive

They are translated into Pakistanese

Mijjile test fails

Re translation is done after the fake mandarin degree holders are identified and booted out

Mijjile tested again

Mijjile test meets a few parameters

Successful mijjile test announced to the duniya

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 29 Apr 2011 23:27

At least we know now that why Denel was blacklisted and made to suffer much economic loss .

Mulla M, your location is perfect.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 30 Apr 2011 20:20

The Hatf-8, as a nuclear battlefield weapon, is being used by the Pakis in Psychops against the IA's cold start doctrine. Our response to their Psychops has been that since you chaps have already stated that it overides our stated policy of not going nuclear under our no first use doctrine!

lets see how the Musharraf's respond!

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 01 May 2011 01:43

sanjeevpunj wrote:Can IAF make PAF poof?

Somebody who has done some calculations told me in 36 hrs

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 01 May 2011 02:01

Acharya wrote:
sanjeevpunj wrote:Can IAF make PAF poof?
Somebody who has done some calculations told me in 36 hrs

Which is one of the reasonS that Pakis want A'stan as strategic depth. In the worst case they can run to that country to survive to fight (????) another day.

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 01 May 2011 02:07

Ah you forget the 180 anti-aircraft consulates operated by RAA in A'Stan

I'm no military expert but is that 36 hrs view held by many?

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 May 2011 07:06

NRao wrote:
Acharya wrote:{quote="sanjeevpunj"}Can IAF make PAF poof?
Somebody who has done some calculations told me in 36 hrs{/quote}

Which is one of the reasonS that Pakis want A'stan as strategic depth. In the worst case they can run to that country to survive to fight (????) another day.

A'stan will also give them a second-strike capability if they keep some of their strategic assets there. That's another reason. The calculation here is that even if Pakistan were vaporized, it will be able to inflict some damage on us. Very lofty strategic thinking by the PA.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 01 May 2011 10:57

^^^

So we are going back to the Taliban days.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 01 May 2011 11:32

Singha is correct, it is a MUPSOW/TORGOS class weapon designed to be carried by SA Cheetahs based on Mirage 3 and hence didn't require modification for Pakistani Mirages. However note that the range is achieved via glide using wings, and such missiles fly predictable trajectories unlike ultra-agile Brahmos, hence the Ra'ad is dead meat for Spyder/Python 5/Derby/Akash. Someone needs to ask the Pakis the terminal maneuvering capabilities of the glide-winged missile, that should be similar to our NCC gliders.

Having said that, hats off to the Pakistanis for making a smart procurement decision. A western missile at Chinese prices and compatible to their Mirages. SA & Brazil are to Pakistan what Israel is to India.

We did a major blunder not going ahead with Bhim project, as well as Denel wheeled and towed artillery. I am told by some arty folks that SA had developed best arty in the world in their last two decades of conflict, and 100% suitable for Indian geographical conditions. Bofors quality at Russian price.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 May 2011 11:39

It looks like only babooze in GoI follow the toilet papers like MTCR/NPT to last letter; bakis have blatantly violated the MTCR and shown a middle finger to everyone but looks like everyone has their heads stuck up where the sun never shines; bunch of fagots.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 May 2011 14:37

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Sm00s7Di3e8/T ... 6%2529.jpg

Excellent image of Ra'ad in flight

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 May 2011 19:44

its not a gliding weapon per the photo. has a air scoop and a engine ... the furthest I have heard of gliding weapons like "diamondback range extention kit/AASM" has been around 50km when launched from 40,000ft at near Mach1 release. nobody can glide for 120km let alone 300 unless it a farce like climb high, shutdown engine, glide, repeat step1...a sort of sine curve type flight path

ofcourse the speed, stealth, payload,accuracy might not match the bleeding edge (JASSM/KEPD/Scalp) but it should be useful...maybe as good as the chinese and russian offerings.
Russia seems to have nothing deployed in the huge gap between the KH59 and the KH55 !!

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 01 May 2011 22:17

NRao wrote: Which is one of the reasonS that Pakis want A'stan as strategic depth. In the worst case they can run to that country to survive to fight (????) another day.

That could be seriously true. NRao ji remember this was discussed here in 2009 during Taliban spring time?

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 02 May 2011 01:22

I personally think "Strategic Depth" in A'stan as defense against India is a BS sold by their armed forces to paper over the *actual* problem. Basing nukes on Afghan territory is all nice and dandy plan, but what happens if Unkil/Russia/India flies in a covert team to take a look see? Can their logistic trail sustain the security of the nukes? What will be Pakis' justification to suddenly move a brigade inside Afghan territory?

The *actual* problem is Pashtun and Baloch nationalism. If the Pakis can cause trouble in India on JK imagine the trouble Afghans can cause the Pakis by sheltering Baloch and Pashtun groups! Afghans already dispute the durrand line, think they are TFTA against the SDRE Pakis and have an axe to grind based on years of Pakistaniyat dished out to them from across the border. They too want unimpeded access to sea (preferably through Balochistan) and remember the glorious days of yore when Paki territory used to be ruled from Afghanistan. They will be backed up against the Pakis by China and the CAR in their attempt to wag the Pakis.

The way I see it is either Afghanistan is Pakistan's poodle or Pakistan is Afghanistan's poodle. To prevent from GUBO-ing to the Afghans, Pakis need a forward policy against the Afghans to keep them pliable. Already Ashphuck is getting brown pants about the size of the Afghan army proposed by Unkil (and reducing it to 30% of the proposed size is one of Pakistan's main demands). The strategic depth that the Pakis want is not depth against India, it is depth against Afghanistan.

Since such intense hostility against a ummah birather cannot be openly stated, it is being passed off as Strategic depth against "CIA-RAW-Mossad-Jew-Hindu-Christian conspiracy against Pakistan"

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 May 2011 05:09

abhijitm,

Many moons ago.

Anujan,

Not talking of using A'stan as a permanent base. Talking of using it to run to when PakiLand gets too hot - as in destruction of PAF in 36 hours.

The prior may happen too. BUT, if that does happen then A'stan is open to attack too.

I am of the opinion that IF a nuclear angle breaks, then there are no rules. I suspect China will be targeted too.

Let us see what happens. My take is that the Chinese are in PoK just to instigate India to kill a few of them and then escalate.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 02 May 2011 06:25

Army helicopter feared shot down in north Pakistan

According to local Urdu TV channel Geo, the incident took place at about 1:20 a.m. local time in a hilly area of Abbotabad, a small town lying some 60 kilometers north of the country's capital city Islamabad.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 02 May 2011 06:51

VinodTK wrote:Army helicopter feared shot down in north Pakistan
According to local Urdu TV channel Geo, the incident took place at about 1:20 a.m. local time in a hilly area of Abbotabad, a small town lying some 60 kilometers north of the country's capital city Islamabad.

The place where the helicopter crashed is near a Pakistani Military Academy, said the local media reports.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 02 May 2011 07:46

OBL Killed breaking news (In Pakistan about a week ago). US Pres about to address the nation any time now.

abrahavt · Post by **abrahavt** » 02 May 2011 08:05

Bin Laden killed in a mansion outside ISLAMABAD

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 02 May 2011 09:24

President Obama confirms death of Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden

SO he was hiding all this while close to GHQ Pindi as suspected on BRF. Wonder what Baksheeh Pakis have got from Uncle for this to be allowed.

P Chitkara · Post by **P Chitkara** » 02 May 2011 10:36

OBL being caught deep inside pukistan exposes their worst kept secret. Wonder whether it is the promised baksheesh or the danda that made pakis give US the access to OBL.

parshuram · Post by **parshuram** » 02 May 2011 11:41

Hideout of Osama was just 800 Meters from Pakistan Military Academy .... Z class protection ....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12307698

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 02 May 2011 14:52

P Chitkara wrote:OBL being caught deep inside pukistan exposes their worst kept secret. Wonder whether it is the promised baksheesh or the danda that made pakis give US the access to OBL.

Wikileaks expose that "ISI" to be treated as a terrorist , might have soiled the salwars . The GUBO masters may have realised that they are soooo close to be declared a terrorist state.

Sathish_A · Post by **Sathish_A** » 02 May 2011 15:54

The house was not built 5-6 years ago, but 10-12 years ago as per this report. It also mentions 14 feet high compound wall fitted with cameras. Definately an ISI safe house.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330

Sean Rowe · Post by **Sean Rowe** » 02 May 2011 20:21

Is it possible without pakistan military's help?. Is he killed by Americans or by pakistani military ?. Is he killed today or few days before (because Gates replaced by CIA Chief and Petraus become CIA Chief. Is there any link with AP CM's copter missing?

Mahendra · Post by **Mahendra** » 02 May 2011 20:46

ranjithnath · Post by **ranjithnath** » 02 May 2011 21:23

Sean Rowe wrote:Is it possible without pakistan military's help?. Is he killed by Americans or by pakistani military ?. Is he killed today or few days before (because Gates replaced by CIA Chief and Petraus become CIA Chief. Is there any link with AP CM's copter missing?

some of the BRFites has gone paranoid over OB's death.they are connecting links between obamas death to AP CM's missing chopper and even elimination of teens for MRCA.anyways OT.

manum · Post by **manum** » 02 May 2011 22:04

ranjithnath wrote:
Sean Rowe wrote:Is it possible without pakistan military's help?. Is he killed by Americans or by pakistani military ?. Is he killed today or few days before (because Gates replaced by CIA Chief and Petraus become CIA Chief. Is there any link with AP CM's copter missing?
some of the BRFites has gone paranoid over OB's death.they are connecting links between obamas death to AP CM's missing chopper and even elimination of teens for MRCA.anyways OT.

typical SDRE...not unexpected...world goes round and round and round...

If it proves true, then, see, I told you.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 02 May 2011 22:09

Sean Rowe wrote:Is it possible without pakistan military's help?. Is he killed by Americans or by pakistani military ?. Is he killed today or few days before (because Gates replaced by CIA Chief and Petraus become CIA Chief. Is there any link with AP CM's copter missing?

It has got to be connected to QE4 announced by Fed Gov Bernanke

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 02 May 2011 23:19

It is well within the Cantonment Area.

Take a look at this link. If you zoom out, you will see the Cantonment boundary marked by trees and sudden change in population density.

Fact: Land cannot be acquired within the cantonment area without permission of the military.
Fact: Entry/exit from cantonment without top military brass authorization cannot be undertaken without guards examining everything
Fact: A land this size could not have been acquired, maintained and lived in without military folks knowing. So, while a few knew of it, rest were told to not worry about this particular building.
Fact: Notice the unpaved roads surrounding this building -- deliberate attempt to keep foot traffic down.
Fact: Any security in addition to the military security within the cantonment should have raised some questions.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 02 May 2011 23:33

We did a major blunder not going ahead with Bhim project, as well as Denel wheeled and towed artillery. I am told by some arty folks that SA had developed best arty in the world in their last two decades of conflict, and 100% suitable for Indian geographical conditions. Bofors quality at Russian price.

And why wouldn't they when they had one of biggest technological geniuses of the 20th century doing it for them?

I have always had great respect for Denel precisely because of the fact that Gerald Bull was so closely associated with them.

manum · Post by **manum** » 03 May 2011 01:22

Avid wrote:It is well within the Cantonment Area.

Take a look at this link. If you zoom out, you will see the Cantonment boundary marked by trees and sudden change in population density.

Fact: Land cannot be acquired within the cantonment area without permission of the military.
Fact: Entry/exit from cantonment without top military brass authorization cannot be undertaken without guards examining everything
Fact: A land this size could not have been acquired, maintained and lived in without military folks knowing. So, while a few knew of it, rest were told to not worry about this particular building.
Fact: Notice the unpaved roads surrounding this building -- deliberate attempt to keep foot traffic down.
Fact: Any security in addition to the military security within the cantonment should have raised some questions.

Osama died years ago...Its just a setup to bring back Obama in next elections and pave their way for Afghanistan exit...
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 03 May 2011 02:58

manum wrote:
Avid wrote:It is well within the Cantonment Area.

Take a look at this link. If you zoom out, you will see the Cantonment boundary marked by trees and sudden change in population density.

Fact: Land cannot be acquired within the cantonment area without permission of the military.
Fact: Entry/exit from cantonment without top military brass authorization cannot be undertaken without guards examining everything
Fact: A land this size could not have been acquired, maintained and lived in without military folks knowing. So, while a few knew of it, rest were told to not worry about this particular building.
Fact: Notice the unpaved roads surrounding this building -- deliberate attempt to keep foot traffic down.
Fact: Any security in addition to the military security within the cantonment should have raised some questions.
Osama died years ago...Its just a setup to bring back Obama in next elections and pave their way for Afghanistan exit...
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/

Oh Please!

Of all things, we don't need waco conspiracy theorists in our midsts.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 May 2011 04:14

Avid wrote:
manum wrote: Osama died years ago...Its just a setup to bring back Obama in next elections and pave their way for Afghanistan exit...
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/
Oh Please! Of all things, we don't need waco conspiracy theorists in our midsts.

Be careful. He could be the next Amby from Pakistan.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 03 May 2011 04:15

Aditya_V wrote:President Obama confirms death of Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden

SO he was hiding all this while close to GHQ Pindi as suspected on BRF. Wonder what Baksheeh Pakis have got from Uncle for this to be allowed.

Any more F-16s would allow India to say "I told you so".

SShah · Post by **SShah** » 03 May 2011 04:23

Though it is not related to this thread.. I just wanted to point out that no Puki was involved in the operation. It was done only by a team of elite navy SEALs. It makes me think that the Puki radars and defense network was blind folded by the US. It could've been done in a numerous ways - Switching off the friends or foe, Jamming their radars or the sam method that Israel used while destroying the Syrian nuclear plant couple of years ago. But this is a very interesting topic though.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 03 May 2011 04:42

The Pakis helped by not not helping.

Avid · Post by **Avid** » 03 May 2011 04:50

NRao wrote:[quote="Avid"uote="manum"
Osama died years ago...Its just a setup to bring back Obama in next elections and pave their way for Afghanistan exit...
http://www.welfarestate.com/binladen/funeral/

Oh Please! Of all things, we don't need waco conspiracy theorists in our midsts. :!

Be careful. He could be the next Amby from Pakistan.

Would not be surprised. He is well qualified with his statements so far to be admin/expert of tspdef forum. Wait that might actually over qualify him for the am by post