J&K News and Discussion-2011

[hulaku]

I don't understand your logic, you are claiming to be a Kashmiri refugee and you want to give away your own land? Don't even want Panun Kashmir?

My logic is why is the Govt spending so much money on these traitors in Kashmir. They will never call themselves Indian and just take what you give them.

I would recommend people here to read what Younghusband wrote of the KMs.

[arnabh]

http://www.forceindia.net/
Chinar Doctrine
Time has come for a working relationship between the army, academia and the media
Here is the ultimate irony about the Rashtriya Rifles (RR). On 6 May, 2010, the US overall forces commander in Afghanistan, General David Petraeus was honoured with the Irving Kristol Award by the American Enterprise Institute in Washington for his contribution to the US Counter-Insurgency (COIN) field manual. In 2005, General Petraeus left Iraq and was sent to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas, to write this manual to comprehend the sea-change in war-fighting: from doing combat to balancing between combat and community operations, which is the essence of COIN.

Three years earlier before Petraeus’ celebration, in January 2007, India’s defence minister, A.K. Antony released the Army’s ‘sub-conventional warfare doctrine’ with little fanfare. This encapsulated the RR’s two decade journey in finally thwarting Pakistan’s attack-by-infiltration strategy. While Petraeus wrote the manual, the Indian Army, in its RR avatar, bearing the ups and downs had perfected the balance between combat and community operations.
Yet in 2010, the government was seriously deliberating on the very need for the RR, the 80,000 strong force which is probably the largest COIN force in the world. Pressed by the Jammu and Kashmir chief minister, Omar Abdullah, the Union home ministry argued that to dispense with the Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act (AF[SP]A), the RR, which wholly operates in the troubled state should be replaced by the paramilitary and state police forces.
As the RR was ordered to be raised as a temporary force in 1987 under Union Composite Table Part II, it can be dissolved with a government order.

The Army Headquarters made frenetic presentations on why the extreme step was premature. It said that as long as unaccounted money comes into the Valley, terrorism would not abate. The RR had painstakingly minimised infiltration across the LC, established intelligence grids in the border belt, provided succour in rural areas, and working closely with other agencies had put the terrorists, Over-Ground Workers (OGWs) and fence-sitters under pressure. With RR gone, and the CRPF dependant on the state police already groaning with numbers constraint, the Valley could once again erupt into uncontrolled violence.

What the army did not say aloud was RR’s critical role in war with Pakistan. Being a temporary force, if the RR, which is army by another name, was disbanded, its 80,000 numbers would no longer be available to the regular army for the LC war. With depleted strength, the army will have difficulty in both defence-in-depth and rear security. On the one hand, the army’s number advantage compared with Pakistan in J&K would dissipate. On the other hand, the Pakistan Army would hamper Indian Army’s operations with its proven irregular (terrorists) forces. Thus, on Antony’s intervention, the RR mandate for another three years, till 2013, was cleared by the government.

[SSridhar]

I would recommend people here to read what Younghusband wrote of the KMs.

Are you referring to the Kashmiris as 'lost tribes of Israel' ? If a Younghusband is to be relied upon, why not Hindu vedas ?

[negi]

My logic is why is the Govt spending so much money on these traitors in Kashmir. They will never call themselves Indian and just take what you give them.

GoI loves Naxals, Maobadis and stone pelters; do you get the drift ? KPs need to re-group and fight; if their cause is strong enough then there is no reason to shy away from a fight, look at what Gujjars did to Dilli billis, if no one's listening to KPs then it's time to raise up hell and if they cant do it then why whine ?

[hulaku]

I would recommend people here to read what Younghusband wrote of the KMs.

Are you referring to the Kashmiris as 'lost tribes of Israel' ? If a Younghusband is to be relied upon, why not Hindu vedas ?

Nope. I am referring to how he described KM's as the most vile and cunning people that he had come across.

[hulaku]

My logic is why is the Govt spending so much money on these traitors in Kashmir. They will never call themselves Indian and just take what you give them.

GoI loves Naxals, Maobadis and stone pelters; do you get the drift ? KPs need to re-group and fight; if their cause is strong enough then there is no reason to shy away from a fight, look at what Gujjars did to Dilli billis, if no one's listening to KPs then it's time to raise up hell and if they cant do it then why whine ?

I am not a KP and your example of the Gujjar agitation is hilarious. I am sure you know the difference.

[Airavat]

Even further back a Persian couplet referred to them as "badzaat" Kashmiris.

The POJK refugees have settled mostly in Jammu, and some in the rest of India. From the Daily Excelsior newspaper archive:

Refugees from Pakistan occupied J&K: These refugees belong to Mirpur, Poonch and Muzaffarabad districts of J&K. All these refugees are Hindus and Sikhs and non-Kashmiris, as such they were not allowed to settle in the Valley even though Muzaffarabad district was part of Kashmir province before 1947. The estimated population of these refugees presently settled in Jammu province is about 10 lakh. Almost 4 lakhs have settled in rest of the country.

They belong to newly designated Pahari sect and speak Pahari -Pathwari language which has resemblance with Dogri and Punjabi language. The commonly known PoJK refugees were provided only with interim relief. The claims that were due to them for their settlement in India have not yet been given after 58 years of partition and they have constantly been pleading their case to all the Governments that were formed at State & Central level since then and to all the political parties. The reason for this is that India considers POJK as part of Jammu and Kashmir that accessed to India and as such it is a part of Indian State. How long they have to wait, only God knows.

[Airavat]

A septuagenarian, Harbhajan Singh Teig, who lives in Nanak Nagar in Jammu, an area predominantly inhabited by refugees from the PoK, recalled that he was one of the refugees who were encouraged by the valiant Brigadier before he died fighting the raiders. Harbhajan Singh, son of politician Sant Singh Teig, said, “The death-knell had already been sounded after Pakistan’s invasion and the fall of Muzaffarabad on October 22, 1947. Our home was in Hattian Dupatta, about 20 km from Muzaffrabad towards Kashmir. On the morning of October 23, we crossed the Jehlum and assembled in Gardi village.”
<snip>
Harbhajan went on, “Fearing political ramifications, Kashmiri leaders did not allow even a single refugee family to stay in Kashmir. Kashmir was climate wise more suitable to us than Jammu.”

Brig Rajinder encouraged refugees to face tribals, says survivor

[hulaku]

OK.

Now that you have taken upon yourself to prove that nobody from Muzaffarbad settled in Kashmir let me do some name dropping.

The most well known Muzaffarabadi families (from the same village that my forefathers came from and from around Hattian, where Harbhajan Singh Teig is from ) in Srinagar (the capital of J&K) were the Batras (Batra Hospital, Delhi)(from Multan but a part of their family was from M'bad)and the Amlas (TR Amla, MP from Kashmir and they are the Broadway Hotel family). And yes they were Punjabis settled in Kashmir.

Do a Google.

[negi]

Hulaku point was about community coming together and fighting for their cause; there are many instances when confrontation has yielded results. KPs are not a big vote bank so forget about some politico fighting for their cause hence my comments about 'fighting'.

[hulaku]

Here is a piece on T R Amla when he passed away in 2009

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Former-RS ... 70129.aspx

[Airavat]

Now that you have taken upon yourself to prove that nobody from Muzaffarbad settled in Kashmir....

because in a previous post:

Refugees from Muzzafarabad were all brought to Kuruksheshtra

[Virupaksha]

X-posting from TSP thread

Perfidy - from TFT

These are the ruins of an ancient Buddhist university in the Sharda valley, Azad Kashmir, only 100 miles from Srinagar. The university is more than 2,000 years old and was once considered the highest seat of learning in the land. Pilgrims came from all over India to pray and worship here, and the students here took courses in history, philosophy and moral reasoning. Even 1,000 years after it was built, long after it had fallen into desuetude, Al-Beruni mentions its abiding prestige in his Tarikh-al-Hind .

The university is situated on a mountain right above the Neelum River. Gray stone slabs of belief-defying proportions form the holy steps that lead up to the grassy campus, where today Pakistani soldiers do their pushups. There is, in the center of the enclosed grassy patch, an imposing temple made of the same gray stone. It once contained a holy statue. According to a local tour guide, it was the statue that was anciently revered by pilgrims and scholars. In 1947, when it became evident that this part of Kashmir would stay with Pakistan, the maharaja commanded the residents of Sharda to remove the holy statue from its place in the temple and lug it all the way to Srinagar. Now in those days the people of Kashmir were obliged to perform unpaid labour for the maharajah, and they despaired at the thought of lugging the heavy statue on foot through the twisting mountain paths. So the elders and numberdars of Sharda convened a meeting one night and decided to feign grief: they would pretend that they too were devoted, despite their Muslim faith, to the holy statue and couldn’t bear to be separated from it. Everyone was urged to weep; those who couldn’t muster real tears were instructed to put masala in their eyes.

The plan worked: in the chaos of the Partition the maharaja forgot about the statue. And, soon after their new freedom had been secured, the people of Sharda (now only Muslims) got together and threw the troublesome statue into the river far below to ensure that no one ever laid claim to it again.

Kashmiriyat in full flow. Nobody explained the concept of Kashmiriyat to me until I read this just now.

I am guessing that this must be the saraswati temple of kashmir, which is recited in many many prayers. I didnt know this before This temple was supposed to have been established by Shankaracharya himself.

Varanasyam Vishalakshi, Kashmire tu Saraswati
Ashtadasha Shakti peethani, Yoginamapi durlabham

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Ashta_Dasa ... ha_Stotram

http://www.koausa.org/KoshSam/sharda1.html

I think I have seen more than enough of this bloody murderous kashmiriyat for my next 1000 lives.

[hulaku]

Now that you have taken upon yourself to prove that nobody from Muzaffarbad settled in Kashmir....

because in a previous post:

Refugees from Muzzafarabad were all brought to Kuruksheshtra

You are actually giving me the lulz.

You do know the difference between people fleeing a certain place on their own and people evacuated by security forces and then led to a safe haven ?

All the surviving non-Muslims after the Kabaili raid from M'bad were delivered by the Pakistanis to the border and they were then sent to Kurukshetra.

[hulaku]

The university is situated on a mountain right above the Neelum River. Gray stone slabs of belief-defying proportions form ..................

I am guessing that this must be the saraswati temple of kashmir, which is recited in many many prayers. I didnt know this before This temple was supposed to have been established by Shankaracharya himself.

Varanasyam Vishalakshi, Kashmire tu Saraswati
Ashtadasha Shakti peethani, Yoginamapi durlabham

http://www.hindupedia.com/en/Ashta_Dasa ... ha_Stotram

http://www.koausa.org/KoshSam/sharda1.html

I think I have seen more than enough of this bloody murderous kashmiriyat for my next 1000 lives.[/quote]


The Temple established by the Shankaracharya is called just that Shankaracharya Temple in Srinagar. I love how this Kuffar building looms over the Momins and they have to look at it day in and out, this Butt-khanna. Out of access nowadays as the CRPF fiercely protects this embodiment of Kuffariyat

And it is on the top of Takht-e-Suleiman

[Virupaksha]

The Temple established by the Shankaracharya is called just that Shankaracharya Temple in Srinagar. I love how this Kuffar building looms over the Momins and they have to look at it day in and out, this Butt-khanna. Out of access nowadays as the CRPF fiercely protects this embodiment of Kuffariyat

And it is on the top of Takht-e-Suleiman

Hulaku,

I have visited the shankaracharya temple in srinagar. That definitely is NOT the saraswati shakti peetha temple, mentioned in the astha dasa shakti peetha stothra, given above.

http://www.shaktipeethas.org/ashtadasa/topic90.html

[anupmisra]

My point is all KMs are traitors. What do you suppose the Indian Govt. can do ? Drive all KMs out of Kashmir ? That would be called Ethnic Cleansing by the enlightened West. You really want that ? And you calling me a closet Paki has all the hallmarks of the inanities that they do at the Deaf and Dumb Forum. Just because I have views that are not divergent with yours I am a Pig ?

No such intent. GOI can not drive out all the KM, just encourage the ones that want to "join" their brethren in pakiland. Happened in 1947. So there's precedence. Secondly, divergent views are always welcome, and my view happens to diverge from yours. Don't take it personally. Besides, I did not call you a "pig". You labelled yourself that title.

[Vikas]

Every few new thread, this question is discussed till someone's A$$ is owned. Once again very slowly for the benefit of Halaku ji, How many pages have we wasted in the past on BRF explaining readers that Kashmir and Kashmiri Muslims are two separate entities and Just because one of them is partly anti-India currently does not mean that we give away both in charity to Pakistan. Only a lazy coward mind would suggest that. So what if GoI is investing billions of dollars in Kashmir. That is the duty and Job of GoI. Right or wrong this is how GoI operates. Nothing special about Kashmir.

Halaku : Just because you have divergent views doesn't mean that they have to be respected. What you are suggesting is no better than what Pakis and WKK's in the past have suggested (e.g. old article from Vir Sanghvi). Give away Kashmir because I don't like the weather/KM's don't like us/ We could save some money/Too much of negative news it generates/Armymen are dying there.
How come you didn't suggested that we should grab PoK from Pakistan ? Why do I never hear people talking about taking back POK outside BRF I wonder but every Abdul is ready to serve Kashmir on a Plate to Pakistan and then they object if they are called dhimmified cowards or WKK or DDM.
Nations are not built and held together by strawmen. It requires blood,sweat and Balidaan to make a nation not running away at the very first sight of trouble.

We are not owner of this Land called Bharat. We are just the custodians for the future generation. It is not for us to give away Kashmir to TSP simply because some of the KM's are anti-India currently. We are 5000 Years old country and 30-40 years means nothing on that scale. The grand plan should be get back what we lost in 1947.

Negi: As far KP's, part of the problem is that they were dhimmified till they were kicked out of Kashmir in 1990 and NO most of the KP's no longer are WKK. Most of them probably would sound more like communalist with all the bitterness and resentment they have accumulated. WKK's will always be there because that seem to be out national media character (with few exceptions). Add to the fact they are hardly in significant minority anywhere and have been Pen Pushers most of their lives anywhere makes it harder for them to fight the cause even if it is their own cause.

[Vikas]

My point is all KMs are traitors.

Am I the only one who has serious trouble with this statement? With one stroke you have painted all the countrymen of a particular religious denomination from a specific geographical area as Traitors.
Wonder how a KM defense personal standing guard in Rajasthan would feel about this statement.

[anupmisra]

My point is all KMs are traitors.

Am I the only one who has serious trouble with this statement? With one stroke you have painted all the countrymen of a particular religious denomination from a specific geographical area as Traitors. Wonder how a KM defense personal standing guard in Rajasthan would feel about this statement.

Hulaku is within his right to expose his extreme viewpoints as a newbie and we, on the other hand, have an obligation and a right to correct him (guide him...if you will). Over the next few days or weeks, he will learn to moderate and condition his views based on deeper thought, enquiry and learning, and hopefully arrive at a point where many of us are today on BRF. Hey, we all have made sweeping statements (and hulaku is no exception, however repugnant that statement may have been). But he will learn. Patience. Those are the ancient ways of our culture. As far as the KM defence personnel standing guard in Rajasthan is concerned, he doesn't care a fig for hulaku's statement for he has a duty to perform to his motherland. He probably arrived at the same conclusion on his own just as many of us did here on BRF.

[Hari Seldon]

^^^Wow. Well-said anupmisra. Wasn't so long ago I had similar incendiary views. I still have some of the fire left in ,my views though...

Hulaku'll learn as I did that its always safer to preface iffy statements with qualifiers only. It not only saves a lot of bile and trouble, it also helps refine one's own thinking and attitudes over time..../Just Saying.

[Gerard]

My point is all KMs are traitors.

Am I the only one who has serious trouble with this statement? With one stroke you have painted all the countrymen of a particular religious denomination from a specific geographical area as Traitors.
Wonder how a KM defense personal standing guard in Rajasthan would feel about this statement.

Indeed. I think hulaku needs to apologize for this calumny. It has no place on the forums.

[brihaspati]

Just waiting to see a massive rally consisting entirely of patriotic Indian Muslims marching on Srinagar to face stone-pelting separatists to teach the latter a lesson. Or declare the actions by KV Muslim agitators an un-Islamic act. Surely that will come since we have such spontaneous, massive violent rallies against Tasleema Nasreen or against Rushdie for what they wrote even outside India! They are so sensitive to things happening in the world outside, and being patriotic they surely feel horrified at what happens every summer in Kashmir Valley?

[harbans]

There's a possibility that Pasha met Mirwaiz when he flew to an undisclosed country post Osama killing.

Moderate Hurriyat Conference Chairman Mirwaiz Umer Farooq may have had a secret meeting with the head of Pakistan intelligence agency Inter Services Intelligence Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha in Europe, although he denies that.

Mirwaiz had gone to Brussels to attend a conference on Kashmir on May 3 and 4 and returned to Delhi on May 9.

A number of prominent Pakistani politicians and Kashmiris from Europe and the United States supporting the separatist cause attended the conference.

Sources in Geneva said that the Mirwaiz had travelled there from Brussels after the conference and reportedly met Pasha, who had during that period left Pakistan for a mysterious destination after US operation in Abbottabad that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/did-m ... 110522.htm

[anupmisra]

There's a possibility that Pasha met Mirwaiz when he flew to an undisclosed country post Osama killing. http://www.rediff.com/news/report/did-m ... 110522.htm

Doesn't this constitute an act of treason under Indian law?

[Hari Seldon]

>>Doesn't this constitute an act of treason under Indian law?

Assuming Indian law still applies in the valley at all.

Anyway, it may well be time to invite Mirwaiz to join some committee or the other in the planning commission.

[RamaY]

Just waiting to see a massive rally consisting entirely of patriotic Indian Muslims marching on Srinagar to face stone-pelting separatists to teach the latter a lesson. Or declare the actions by KV Muslim agitators an un-Islamic act. Surely that will come since we have such spontaneous, massive violent rallies against Tasleema Nasreen or against Rushdie for what they wrote even outside India! They are so sensitive to things happening in the world outside, and being patriotic they surely feel horrified at what happens every summer in Kashmir Valley?

Until I see such a procession, I tend to agree with hulaku's generalization. When the exceptions are too small a number in a large population, generalizations are fact of life.

it is sad but I am sure the KM soldier in Rajasthan would appreciate the concern

[negi]

Vikas I never said KPs were WKKs did I ? However I do believe that the reality is not as extreme as it is being made out to be i.e. as far as I see it they are quite happy with the status quo for as far as I am concerned peaceful protests and jhanda march mean nothing.

[hulaku]

First of all I apologise for that sweeping general statement on KMs.

But 99% percent of them have the same views that people on deaf and dumb have. This is a fact that should be clear to all Indians. And by KMs I mean the valley Muslims and not the Gujjars/Bakarwals of the Jammu region or the Shias of Kargil.

Anyways I am off to watch the patakas at PNS Mehran:)

[ManishH]

Some results from census-2011 with strategic implications on J&K

1. Two worst districts on _child_ sex ratio remain Jammu and Samba. But worst drops are seen in Pulwama, Budgam, Anantnag, Kupwara, Ganderbal, Baramula. This is bad in short term, as it leads to more frustrated, unmarried youth. But if secessionist society is keen on harakiri, so be it.

2. Fastest growing districts are Kupwara, Anantnag and Ganderbal.

3. Population growth in loyalist majority districts is 21%, but in districts with secessionist sentiment, it is 26%

GoI should draw the right conclusions in J&K and reverse the demographic trend before it is too late. Society needs to draw the right conclusions and ensure a healthy and natural sex ratio prevails.

[brihaspati]

hulaku ji,
you are perhaps not asking the right questions. Ask why we do not see spontaneous violent mobs breaking out in cities of considerable Muslim presence against separatist atrocities or violence - while they seem to be extra-prompt in rioting against Rushdie or Tasleema.

Surely we have patriots in overwhelming numbers among them? Or do we want to say that only anti-nationals came out to violently protest Rushdie or Tasleema? Why don't we see such violent protests against Pakistani atrocities on Indian soil or against Kashmiri Muslim separatists?

If you go the route you have taken, your voice will be snuffed out easily - because there are dogmas about what we must believe about societies or segments of societies.

Not going over to Pakistani territories after Partition is often cited as the visible sign of "choices" made by IM. Or the greatest sacrifices made by IM military personnel, or contributions and profiles of stalwarts like Prof. Kalam. But the actual experience of the Partition, showed that the real separatist and anti-non-Muslim revival that led to Pakistan was actually clearly a creation of the very predecessors and school of IM leadership that stayed behind in India post Partition. The fact that this leadership has held its ground, and gone from strength to strength in its bargaining power with Hindu political elite, shows simply that they are more astute and politically far-sighted than the more eager-beavers who created Pak. They correctly chose the right regional resource to continue their long declared ambitions of Islamizing the entire subcontinent. Kashmir Valley is no exception.

As long as we see different orders of reaction from IM mobilizations against Pak atrocities/Kashmiri separatism and say "core" Islamist "issues" like Rushdie or Tasleema - cannot be sure about the long term ambitions of the leadership of the community.

[devesh]

^^^
brihaspati ji,
in that video "Intellectual Terrorism," in one of the other threads, the good lady spoke of how we are shit scared of being called "intolerant." it is the same syndrome on BRF.....the SDRE Yindu mind is not plotting secretly to destroy Islam. the only agenda we have is to save our own land. this requires outward expression of said views. by censuring this expression, the entire process of regaining our lands is stalled. the Islamic mind, with the leadership of a dedicated few, is working in secret and in shadows, and remaining from overtly conducting their agenda. so, this is the strength of the dedicated few who stayed back post-Partition. the Yindus do have a way to fight back, but that way is labelled as "intolerant." and education imparted to Yindus has taught him/her that he should be scared of being called "intolerant." the consequences are proving to be disastrous.

hulaku ji, I am completely with you on this one. the politically correct can present all of their "polished" dandas, but know that BRF is a voice for mango patriots, not just "too posh to speak the truth" patriots. sorry for being blunt.

[Airavat]

New bridge to connect HP with Jammu, and provide alternate route to Kashmir

[brihaspati]

^^^Another target to practice upon?

[somnath]

Just waiting to see a massive rally consisting entirely of patriotic Indian Muslims marching on Srinagar to face stone-pelting separatists to teach the latter a lesson. Or declare the actions by KV Muslim agitators an un-Islamic act. Surely that will come since we have such spontaneous, massive violent rallies against Tasleema Nasreen or against Rushdie for what they wrote even outside India! They are so sensitive to things happening in the world outside, and being patriotic they surely feel horrified at what happens every summer in Kashmir Valley?

Until I see such a procession, I tend to agree with hulaku's generalization. When the exceptions are too small a number in a large population, generalizations are fact of life.

it is sad but I am sure the KM soldier in Rajasthan would appreciate the concern

RamaY-ji, IMO you oversimplify the phenomenon here..Indian muslims dont take out mass processions in Kashmir in favour of the Indian position, true...Looking at it in another fashion, IMs dont take out mass processions against so-called govt atrocities either..When KMs were apparently waging intifada version Kashmir last year, did we see IMs taking to the streets in support? On the other hand, we do tend to see street anger against the likes of Taslima, or the Danish cartoons..

Why? the reasons IMO are complex...And they largely lie in the political domain...Issues like Danish cartoons, or Taslima, have potential and perceived political dividends..Crucially, they can dovetail with the larger agenda of diffrerent mainstream political parties..For example, the Danish cartoons issue could dovetail somewhat with th broader anti-West rhetoric of the Left....Taslima's case could dovetail with the communitarian "muslims discriminated against" rhetoric of certain mainstream politial discourse as well..On the other hand, there is absolutely no politial dividend to b had - Left, Right or Centre, for articluating a separatist stand on Kashmir...Similarly, there isnt a lot of incremental dividend to be had for shouting out the "nationalist" position either, all parties articulate as standard policy some variant of the status quo in any case...Which is why you dont see the "muslim street" making too loud a noise either ways...

If you care to notice, there are other instances though...Muslims taking out "anti Pak" processions, almost as a routine, after every suspected jihadi attack...Or muslim khadims in Mumbai refusing to bury the 26/11 attackers...Reason? There is an optical political point to be made...On Kashmir, to be brutally honest, the average poltiical (and mass/middle class) opinion is completely blase as long as there is status quo...Most people couldnt care a fig what happens there, till the time of course we have a Kargil, or a massive terror attack..

finally, all this talk of "spontaeneous" and all that is a bit hokey...Most common people are too busy with their daily lives to take to the streets on any issue...The difference might be issues of ephemeral "cool-ness", say, Jessica Lal, or anna Hazare...The rest of the "street" needs to be mobilised through conscious coordinated poltiical action - it involves management, money and a perceived political dividend for the sponsor...Works on both sides - BJP didnt perceive a lot of dividends accruing to itself on account of MMJ's Ekta Yatra - which is why its place is but a footnote in its narrative...And the version II attempted 20 years later last year too was left to a junior flunkey like Anurag Thakur, before the media circus around it attracted the top echelons...And at the end, the BJP didnt end up with too much political dividends either, which they realised and the rhetoric quickly subsided with no long term change in its narative...

JMT...

[brihaspati]

Good! Good! "junior flunkeys" are doing their job well! To the defence of IM patriotism! Nothing bad in that for ideological junior flunkeys, and an admirable political devotion to Centre-Left! But why is it that we never see application of such epithets by the now well established "uppah class" "not-rural-origins-but-city-bred-and-confined" blanket rudeness - to juinor or senior "flunkeys" from the Centre-Left? Say Manish Tiwari or Digvijay Singh - or will it cause trouble to party membership or affiliation? Actually dismissing the "spontaneity" as "hokey" was perhaps not wise!

If the IM are not "spontaneous" in the public show of their political reactions - does it not then automatically support the alternative that they are completely under the thumb and control of their community leadership? But isn't that what the Centre-Left and p-secs have been trying to negate for so long? What gives?

Actually, it will be an interesting question to get the latest position on J&K from parliamentary Left and the Leftist victims of atrocious Salwa Judum - the completely non-atrocious Maoists!

[RamaY]

Somnathji,

However IMs, especially KMs organize mass mobilizations to protest against any Islamic cause be it Quran burning or Taslima or Salman Rasdie or great Satan, and so on...

After all those posts in various threads, this question from you indicates that you are intellectually biased. Nothing wrong but that shows your bias and nothing can change your opinion... So what is the point.

[abhishek_sharma]

This is old, but could be relevant for the discussion here:

Jamiat Ulema-e-Hind demands AFSPA revocation, troop withdrawal

Is Kashmir a part of India, asks SP leader Azam Khan

[abhishek_sharma]

Who says Osama is a terrorist, ask Muslim religious leaders

---------------------------------------------------------------

[brihaspati]

Here is CPI(M)'s Yusuf Tarigami's opinion on "solving" J&K
Yusu Tarigami's interview

What is the point of view of Left Block now on Kashmir. Do you, as left, support the Kashmiris’ right to self determination? Also, tell us if the CPI and CPM think on the same lines when it comes to Kashmir?

The CPI (M) is having a central committee meeting soon and Kashmir is on agenda. We demand maximum autonomy from union of India and regional autonomy within the state. We believe Kashmir acceded in special circumstances and there are special constitutional guarantees which have not been respected.

We believe it enjoys a special status which has been eroded undemocratically by successive governments. Ongoing turmoil is the reflection of massive and deep alienation caused because of that erosion.

Restoration of constitutional guarantees is the pre-requisite for peace. Jammu and Kashmir is diverse and we oppose any kind of its separation. I have moved a resolution that solution must take care of diversity and no further division of the state. It will make the problem more complex. [Of course - to maintain Islamist dominance and larger territorial control under Valley feudal control - no repite or freedom for Jammu and Ladakh]
What is the solution in your view?
State should have maximum autonomy that means real extensive autonomy. Relationship with union of India should be extensively federal and there should exist, regional autonomy for regions. We must also, develop co-federal relations with Pakistan administered Kashmir.