Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 11 Jun 2011 22:38

A little dated. But posting it as it is good news, and it has been a slow day waiting for the Fridin news to filter in, and also because I appreciate Ms. Aziz.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/c ... 983933.htm
In Pakistan, Things Will Only Get Worse
While most countries feel relief over the death of Osama bin Laden, Pakistan will continue to suffer geopolitically, economically, and politically
By Maha Hosain Aziz
"For those who lost loved ones in the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, the death in Pakistan of terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden may bring a sense of closure—or at least comfort. President Barack Obama is enjoying renewed legitimacy for Operation Geronimo, winning praise from Democrats, Republicans, and world leaders. For Pakistan, though, the raid on Abbottabad has in one swoop left the country significantly worse off geopolitically, economically, and politically, opening an ugly can of worms that likely won't be resealed soon....."
Gautam

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 11 Jun 2011 22:40

gakakkad wrote:^^ Rajesh saar , which paki chick are u smitten by ? ... Since the napakis interbreed prolifically their is a stagnation of their gene pool . (this is a scientific fact and not GILGITSTANI GENETICS)

I agree with Gakakkad? no point in letting in Paki-maal into desh (either for flesh trade or catalog brides). It will only corrupt our next generation. When non-hindus (boy or girl) marry hindus, 99% of the time, the hindu is made to change their way of life and this would only hurt us in the long run. Immigration from CIS countries or even SE asian countries (with INDIC cultures) would be a better option. The skewed sex ratio is more in the Punjab-Haryana region, this would be stabilized with movement from the hinterland. Better education, health care and awareness would solve this problem rather than import a virus from Pakiland.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 11 Jun 2011 22:44

Hari Seldon wrote:^^^ L&M thread maybe a better place to diss-cuss the intricacies of the issue, perhaps...

Don't you dare move this stuff to L&M nukkad or even nukkad!

The nukkad are not trash collectors from other threads and we will defend its sanctity to our last unsoiled shalwar.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 11 Jun 2011 22:58

RajeshA wrote:JE Menon saar,

As I said here, the women of ex-Soviet Union are not the issue here, at least not on this thread, and I just mentioned that in passing in a response. I also did not propagate here any stereotype, and my few personal examples were just examples and not a generalized statement. I am also not too keen on further discussing how Russian goris find Indian men.

The issue here was ONLY about the downward evolution of the Pakistani state and society, and whether that would lead to a demand to marry off their daughters and sisters to Indian men and whether there will be a demand for Pakistani women from the Indian side.

Basically I look at this from the PoV of decreasing the runaway birth rate of Pakistanis. Should the phenomenon of cross-country marriages kick off in a big way, the demand for wives in India coupled with Indian money can mean a wholesale suctioning off of women from Pakistan. A prospect which also solves many strategic problems for India.

And as we are talking about the coming future, there are no statistics I can provide about that!

Pretty good idea. However, question on peoples minds will be that the children will have to be bought up as Hindus/sikh etc. BTW regionally, isnt dowry paid for by the female side and some places male side provides dowry? It will be an interesting development to say the least and its a soft way of dealing with a larger problem.

devesh · Post by **devesh** » 11 Jun 2011 23:26

watching it for the first time, it was exceedingly difficult not to feel empathy for the victim. a part of me was gloating that Pak was finally feeling the consequences of its own actions. the other part felt heart felt agony for the guy in the video. he was begging and pleading to not kill him. the more he kept begging, the more they the police was beating him up. and before he got shot, he was crying and literally bowing down and begging him to show mercy......i fervently pray that Dharma will be established in this deracinated and decaying land, where Sindhu nadi flows.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 11 Jun 2011 23:48

devesh wrote:....i fervently pray that Dharma will be established in this deracinated and decaying land, where Sindhu nadi flows.

No mercy for Kuffar in Poak Islamic land . The killer was simply doing his religious duty to earn sabab. Well, its has been great knowing Pakistan , the journey of Indus from Indic to inbred islam in a millenium now complete. Time it shft course and merge completely in Indian Ocean along with population. As the man said ,Flood season next month , time for Indus to wash more sinners than sins . Watch the Poaks go on another begging spree and WKK demanding bigger donation check from GOI.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 11 Jun 2011 23:56

shyamd wrote:Pretty good idea. However, question on peoples minds will be that the children will have to be bought up as Hindus/sikh etc. BTW regionally, isnt dowry paid for by the female side and some places male side provides dowry? It will be an interesting development to say the least and its a soft way of dealing with a larger problem.

Well if Hindus or Sikhs would be willing to pay a higher mehr, then they will get the bride! Accordingly the kids would be Hindu or Sikh. In Pakistan, the parents would be telling their neighbors and relations that the guy is an Indian Muslim. All is Taqqiya!

I think, with the way the gender-ratio is skewed in India nowadays, the days of dowry are really numbered. Mostly it will be Indian men who would have to dole out the money!

If India can suction off 30-40 million Pakistani women, Pakistan is dead, or the next generations would only be some satyrs hopping around the mountains! The number of Indian males who would get no wife in India is also around that much.

If the mehr is 2000 USD per Pakistani woman on an average, then with 80 billion USD, India would have killed Pakistan for good, and in a generation the whole of Pakistan would belong to India!

I say, if they don't sell us their nukes, we should buy off their women!

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 11 Jun 2011 23:59

The beginning of the end...Mard-e-Momin in action. Note the look on the Ranger's face.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 12 Jun 2011 00:13

Rajeshji:

I think this discussion needs to be moved to managing Pakistan Failure thread.

In fact as some others have suggested in the Feedback section, we perhaps needs a subsection on threads on TSP because of all that is happening there.

One of the sub-threads could be on how to roll back the demographics of TSP, and the current thread of reducing the birth rates by importing TSP women could have a place there.

This line of thought can be misconstrued and needs to be discussed in context which not everyone who reads this thread will be able to appreciate. So let us take the discussion out of the short-lived TSP thread and put it in a more specific location, where the broader context is not lost.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jun 2011 00:13

ramana wrote:R^2, the 1999 Kargil gamble was a tipping point.
When India stopped them and forced the defeat, the Kharjite meme of biting their handlers took over. The TSPA jihadi army turned inward staged a coup and 9/11 and Af-Pak happened.

Good that you bought it up... I have a similar theory...
Kargil was the first time where there was a significant influx of Jehadi elements to a single sector in J&K. Here there was no local support & was entirely supported by PA / Jehadi handlers. TSP promised Jehadis the moon / the everybody assumed (maybe received tacit confirmation) that western powers would step-in and order a ceasefire thus guaranteeing a new toehold for the Jehadis in the Kargil sector which has been relatively quite compared to the valley or Jammu region.
Also this is the first time returning Jehadis had horror stories from India. Hitherto the few Jehadis who made it back had only stories of Bravado and phenomenal success (which in turn became recruitment aids). Kargil was handled with an iron hand by Desh using Airpower and Artillery apart from Infantry assaults. This demoralized the Jehadis and made them turn against their handlers.

Significant Anger split over onto western powers, perceptible shift towards India by US, UK and EU deepened the resentment. India's rapid economic growth which became apparent by the turn of the century rankled the rank and file of TSPA and Jehadis alike (sorry for being pedantic with words).

What followed in 9/11, Sub attack in Ukisthan and assorted EU cities where the result of this slide... Nawaz was the first victim of this for sure!!! gurus please weigh in.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Jun 2011 00:13

http://www.openthemagazine.com/article/ ... al-problem

Pakistan’s General Problem
How Pakistan’s Generals turned the country into an international jihadi tourist resort

The latest "Open" mag has a splendid article,a collctor's piece, by the author of the "case of the explooding mangoes",Md.Hanif,on Pak's "General problem".It traces the machinations of the Paki military from the time of Zia and its multiple failure on every front includins the military.Said one Paki expert ,"the Pak army is brilliant at acquiring information,but its ability to analyse such information is non-existant"!

The rot in pofessional military affairs that began with Zia's "Islamisation" policies ,were ably followed by Musarraf's mischief at Kargil.Here the Paki army fondly imagined (at a briefing to
the other services) that it would lead to a "walk into Siachen-to mop up the bodies of Indians left hungry ,out in the cold..."! This absurd fond hope led one Paki air force offcier,Air Cmde Abid Rao to famously remark that this would lead either to a "Court Martial or Martial Law"! he was spot on as Ge.Bandicoot made himself Pres. in a coup.He now pontificates from his London lair,unable to return to Pak where he will be immediately arrested for complicity in the murder of Bibi (Benazir Bhutto).

The author then lists the numerous jihadi entities to whom the Paki generals have outsourced military matters and quotes from the famous singer Noor Jehan and Sufi poets ,"brave sons cannot be bought inshops,do not look for them in the bazaars",a warning that the current Paki generals,splendidly attired in their glittering uniforms and heavily be-medalled, looking like decorated Christms trees,have refused to listen to.

Mohammad Hanif on Dangerous Duffers
- Pakistan’s General Problem

How Pakistan’s Generals turned the country into an international jihadi tourist resort

By Mohammad Hanif

What is the last thing you say to your best general when ordering him into a do-or-die mission? A prayer maybe, if you are religiously inclined. A short lecture, underlining the importance of the mission, if you want to keep it businesslike. Or maybe you’ll wish him good luck accompanied by a clicking of the heels and a final salute.

On the night of 5 July 1977 as Operation Fair Play, meant to topple Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto’s elected government, was about to commence, then Army Chief General Zia ul Haq took aside his right-hand man and Corps Commander of 10th Corps Lieutenant General Faiz Ali Chishti and whispered to him: “Murshid, marwa na daina.” (Guru, don’t get us killed.)

General Zia was indulging in two of his favourite pastimes: spreading his paranoia amongst those around him and sucking up to a junior officer he needed to do his dirty work. General Zia had a talent for that; he could make his juniors feel as if they were indispensable to the running of this world. And he could make his seniors feel like proper gods, as Bhutto found out to his cost. …

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 12 Jun 2011 00:22

Two blasts in Khyber Super Market Peshawar. 30 dead & 80 Injured.

BajKhedawal · Post by **BajKhedawal** » 12 Jun 2011 00:29

cheenum wrote:
gakakkad wrote:^^ Rajesh saar , which paki chick are u smitten by ? ... Since the napakis interbreed prolifically their is a stagnation of their gene pool . (this is a scientific fact and not GILGITSTANI GENETICS)
I agree with Gakakkad? no point in letting in Paki-maal into desh (either for flesh trade or catalog brides). It will only corrupt our next generation. When non-hindus (boy or girl) marry hindus, 99% of the time, the hindu is made to change their way of life and this would only hurt us in the long run. Immigration from CIS countries or even SE asian countries (with INDIC cultures) would be a better option. The skewed sex ratio is more in the Punjab-Haryana region, this would be stabilized with movement from the hinterland. Better education, health care and awareness would solve this problem rather than import a virus from Pakiland.

I agree with Cheenu & Gakakkad, It will mostly be a case of "Aah bahl mujey maar" (come bull gore me). Case in point Rahul Butt son of Mahesh Butt, and Sanju baba. At partition time we have paid a heavy price of getting rid of gangrene, no need to self inject it - amounts to suicide.

pgbhat · Post by **pgbhat** » 12 Jun 2011 00:29

Regarding article posted by Philip...

Our soldiers are taught to shout Allah-o-Akbar when mocking an attack. In real life, they are ambushed by enemies who shout Allah-o-Akbar even louder. Can we blame them if they dither in their response?

When naval officials told journalists that the attackers were ‘as good as our own commandoes’ were they giving themselves a backhanded compliment?

shravan · Post by **shravan** » 12 Jun 2011 00:42

Arrested US national sent on 14-day remand

ISLAMABAD: Mathew Craig, the US national who was arrested in Islamabad yesterday on charges of illegal stay has been sent on 14-day remand to Adiala Jail, Geo News reported.

He was arrested from sector I-11 of the capital city on Friday and presented before the court of Judge Kashif Qayum today (Saturday).

According to police, Pakistan’s Interior Ministry had ordered him to leave the country by June 4 but his presence here after this date was in violation of the Foreign Act.

Mathew Craig had been arrested by intelligence agencies on June 10 in Fateh Jang which is considered to be a sensitive area of the country, sources said. Upon this, the Interior Ministry had canceled his visa.

The arrested US national is of the view that Pakistan’s intelligence agencies were trying to eject him from the country and that the action against him was being taken at the behest of these agencies.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Jun 2011 01:12

IED Mubarak in Peshwar market, many dead.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jun 2011 01:26

shravan wrote:Two blasts in Khyber Super Market Peshawar. 30 dead & 80 Injured.

There it starts... just a day late... probably news bombs came with Arabic instructions which "mango Abduls" couldn't read. more to come... deleted

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Jun 2011 01:27

Anujan wrote:IED Mubarak in Peshwar market, many dead.

25 injured in twin blasts in Peshawar

The explosions occurred at Khyber Super Market in Peshawar, the capital of Khyber—Pakhtunkhwa province that has repeatedly been targeted by Taliban militants over the past few years.

The market was crowded at the time of the blasts as it has several eateries that are frequented by people.

Witnesses said the second blast was more powerful.

Guess what could be the cause of the explosion.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 12 Jun 2011 01:29

cheenum wrote: Also this is the first time returning Jehadis had horror stories from India. Hitherto the few Jehadis who made it back had only stories of Bravado and phenomenal success (which in turn became recruitment aids). Kargil was handled with an iron hand by Desh using Airpower and Artillery apart from Infantry assaults. This demoralized the Jehadis and made them turn against their handlers.

I remember reading how puke bodies were returned to their kin in the dark, and the bodies looked starved with sugar powder in their mouth. They had run out of food and Puke army was not able to supply them anymore. At all these times we need to remember Saurabh Kalia and his men. AOA.
Gautam

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 12 Jun 2011 01:37

Upon great demand to shift all talk of Pakistani women to some other thread, the discussion has been moved to "Managing Pakistan's failure" Thread.

Please carry on over there! Thank you!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2011 01:37

Cheenum, Nice theory but has to be based on reality. Kargil gamble was with TSPA regular troops from Northern Light Infantry. Any jihadis were porters for them.

Read the Kargil Review Committee report.

However it does not detract from your conclusion that the defeat at Kargil made the TSPA turn on their country and seize power and subsequent events.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Jun 2011 01:39

Bitten but not shy

At a meeting of Pakistan’s Corps Commanders at the general headquarters in Rawalpindi this week, two important messages came through. In an unusually detailed handout on Thursday, army chief general Pervez Kayani told the nation that the army wants to share some of its aid money received from the U S to help support the country’s sinking economy. This was the good news.
The bad news was that he said the army high command “is fed up of” growing criticism about its role in various public forums and “would soon put and end to it.” For most, this was a thinly veiled threat and comes at a time when the role of the army is being increasingly questioned in a country where such debates often have disastrous consequences.

But Rawalpindi watchers say that the army is in no mood to bend. Possibly, this is where the country’s next crisis is going to come from

Pakistanis consider the conference of the Corps Commanders to be the country’s top decision-making body – higher than the parliament and the executive. It is here that both domestic and foreign policy issues are decided. Civilian ministers and advisors are at hand to give the briefing, but decisions are only taken by men in khaki.

The parliament wasn’t impressed. They booed the generals and called them names.

This led to a public spat between the ISI chief and opposition leader Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan in which Pasha told Nisar to shut up since he had taken too many favours from the army.

This piece of information silences army apologists like Imran Khan, who had earlier said that Shehzad was killed to discredit the ISI.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2011 01:42

They are diverting some funds to the civilians to create space for themselves. i think West is advising them to share the funds so as to reduce the heat.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 12 Jun 2011 01:49

Paki ISPR report with a statement from the Crore Kammandu's conference. Interesting thing is, many sentences are bold and highlighted to show that they are serious, or maybe for people in a hurry

(interesting paragraph from the Jernail himself)

COAS also informed the forum that the often quoted figure of US $ 13-15 Billion utilised by the Army in last ten years is misplaced. Under the head of Coalition Support Fund (CSF), against a total sum of US $ 13 Billion expected from the US, only US $ 8.6 Billion have been received by the Government of Pakistan. The Government has further made available only US $ 1.4 Billion to the Army over last ten years. A relatively smaller amount has gone to Navy and PAF as well. The rest i.e. approximately US $ 6 Billion, have been utilised by the Government of Pakistan for budgetary support which ultimately means the people of Pakistan (The figures quoted here have been reconciled with the Ministry of Finance).

In other news, the Peshwar IED mubarak is HUGE with the toll standing at 35 dead and 100 wounded so far.

Edit: Link removed, will post bolded parts later.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2011 01:55

Anujan,
Not good idea to post direct link to such entities. They might be interested in knowing visitors IP. Since you already went there it might be OK to post their stuff that you want to show attention to.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 12 Jun 2011 02:00

I suspect military families and dependents have been targeted in Peshawar.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2011 02:04

Has this been posted?

Land of the impure

By a quirk of fate, the Indian Campaign of Alexander the Macedonian was restricted entirely to what is now Pakistan. After his death in 322 BCE, his empire disintegrated and the brilliant Chandragupta Maurya rose to power in a great kingdom that spread across much of the subcontinent. Asoka, who outshone his grandsire, extended his rule to most of Afghanistan, even wresting bits of that country from its Greek masters.

The decay of the Mauryan Empire gave rise to a new wave of Greek adventurers. In or about the year 184 BCE, Demetrius, the first of the Euthydemid line of kings, left his seat of power at Balkh from where he controlled Afghanistan, and annexed Taxila. Not two decades had passed when another line of Greek adventurers, the descendents of Alexander’s general Seleucus Nikator, displaced the Euthydemids to become masters of first Taxila and Sialkot and eventually most of what is now Pakistan.

Far away in the east, the caste-conscious rulers of Patliputra (Patna) looked upon this parade of outsiders with disdain. The Yavanas (the local pronunciation of the Persian Yunani from Ionian) were despised people. For the Pundits of the east, these people were the Mlechha — unclean ones. There was, in that early pre-Islamic age, no appreciation for the white-skinned foreigners. By extension, the land of the outsiders became Mlechha Desa — Land of the unclean.

The power of the Greeks eventually waned and a hundred years after Eucratides, the Seleucid king, had taken Taxila, Punjab and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa fell to Scythian hordes. Under their able king, Maues, these people rose in power and even before Maues died, they had spread across what is now Pakistan.

Having been in fashion for more than a hundred years, the title of Mlechha Desa now stuck fast. This was the land customarily under control of the impure, unclean outsiders. Little did it matter to the high caste Pundits of the east that they and outsiders in reality sprang from the common Indo-Aryan stock separated only by some scores of generations. Nevertheless, there was clearly no admiration for the newcomers; there was only revulsion.

This remained the case for the next millennium. It was only subsequent to the Muslim influx into the subcontinent when a sufficiently large number of conversions led to friction between the old established belief system and the new, that the first seeds of ‘love for the tormentor’, the invading newcomer, were sown. This was largely because the invader was now always Muslim (save Chengez Khan) and looked upon by the converts of India as a saviour.

Mahmud Ghaznavi, a Turk erroneously adopted by the Pathans as one of them, who raped and looted regardless of the religion of his victim, was lionised simply for being a Muslim. Few care to know that while this common brigand descended upon India in the winters, he routinely pillaged the rich (Muslim) cities of Central Asia. Only Abu Rehan Al Beruni got the real measure of this robber chief : Never in his life did he refer to him as Imad ud Daula, Sultan Ghazi etc. For Al Beruni, he was forever plain Amir Mahmud.

The cowardly Jalaluddin Khwarazm flying in front of the superior arms and tactics of Chengez Khan was turned into a hero by that sham historian Nasim Hijazi. This spineless man abandoned his family to the Mongols, knowing full well what they did to their adversaries, and fled to watch their rape and plunder from the safe side of the Sindhu River.

Subsequently, he indulged in wholesale slaughter in Multan, Uch and Bhambore (all Muslim cities) and utterely sacked Pari Nagar, a rich and fabulous city shared by Hindus and Muslims in Tharparkar. Mindless of all this savagery, we, in our ignorance, shamelessly permitted the spurious work of Hijazi to hone our love for this tormentor.

There is clearly a lack of national pride. There can be no other reason that we worship invaders who raped, looted and sacked our cities. We worship them and name sons after them only because we share the same religion with them.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Jun 2011 02:12

Chicago Terror Trial Ends - Strains on US-Pakistani Relations Grow

This Chicago terror trial was watched throughout the world for any possible revelations about possible links between the anti-militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba(LET) and Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence agency, the ISI.

Recent Congressional hearings and GAO Reports have focused on the extent to which terrorist safe havens continue to flourish in Pakistan, FATA, Yemin, and Somalia and subsequently create national security threats for American interests and citizens.

The subcommittee is chaired by Rep. Michael McCaul (R-Texas). On June 3,2011 he stated, “CNN recently reported that Osama bin Laden sought a deal with Pakistan in which Bin Laden would not attack Pakistan in exchange for protection. At this point we do not know who in the Pakistani government was aware of Osama Bin Laden’s presence, but I am certain that some Pakistan officials knew that he was living in plain sight, not exactly the average house in an ordinary neighborhood.

(lies lies and lies- Osama talks to pakistan but uncle does not know who it is)

The testimony of David Coleman Headley was closely watched for any information it might provide regarding terrorist safe havens , Pakistan’s commitment to catch terrorists, and the ISI’s connections to Pakistan-based terror groups. Pakistan has remained silent and as of yet has not provided requested information on this issue.

(why did uncle not force TSP?)

Currently, the focus of several Congressional hearings is on the extent to which Pakistan is playing a double game of both taking our funding and supporting our enemies.

( will it change uncle behaviour wrt its favorite munna)

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 12 Jun 2011 02:19

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia/ ... 38327.html
"Blasts hit market in Pakistan's Peshawar
Dozens killed and more than 100 wounded after two explosions went off in northwestern city, police say.
Two blasts have ripped through a market area in Pakistan's northwestern city of Peshawar, killing dozens, police said.
Hospital sources told Al Jazeera that 34 people had been killed and more than 100 others wounded.
The explosions took place early on Sunday in the Khyber Super Market, which is surrounded
by residential flats for students, shops, a fruit juices kiosk and a hotel."
Gautam

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jun 2011 02:22

g.sarkar wrote:I remember reading how puke bodies were returned to their kin in the dark, and the bodies looked starved with sugar powder in their mouth. They had run out of food and Puke army was not able to supply them anymore. At all these times we need to remember Saurabh Kalia and his men. AOA.

Pakis in Kargil ran out of fuel to keep warm, food, ammo, water and even shelter. Above all they ran out of will to fight courtesy the barrage IA unleashed on them. It seems at its best IA used 120 guns in one battalion's area to exterminate these Pakroaches. Few managed to slither down and escape. but the bulk of the survivors surrendered to the IA and surprise these were ALL PA (and NLI which was an outcast among PA then) and no Mujahideen among them. and then the penny fell!!!

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jun 2011 02:25

ramana wrote:Cheenum, Nice theory but has to be based on reality. Kargil gamble was with TSPA regular troops from Northern Light Infantry. Any jihadis were porters for them.

I included TSPA in the Jehadi columns. There were few non PA jehadis but then these were also ex PA/SSG/ISI. i'll give you an analogy to the current state of TSP... in rural TN, after harvests if there is an outbreak of rats, farmers know that they can't catch/kill all rats. What they do instead is catch couple of rats, tie their musharaff and let them lose... the "demush" rats, eat their full and then realise they cant pass it out and get really pissed and attack other fellow rats... this causes a marked loss in rat population is just a few days. Kargill and the border fencing in J&K are essentially "de-mushing" the Pakrats.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jun 2011 02:32

krisna wrote:At a meeting of Pakistan’s Corps Commanders at the general headquarters in Rawalpindi this week, two important messages came through. ..

Did people notice HT has used BRSpeak of “Crore Commanders”... there are way too many BRLurks than we can imagine.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Jun 2011 02:39

Canadian's terrorism trial points to Pakistani double game

Headley took the witness stand and blew the whistle on Pakistan’s covert support for terrorism. Headley is a U.S. citizen but, more importantly, an ethnic Pakistani super-patriot. He despises India and, like most Pakistanis, he passionately believes the disputed Kashmir region belongs to entirely to his native country.

At Rana’s trial, Headley admitted he was a member of the violent Pakistani extremist group Lashkar-e-Taiba.

In dramatic testimony, Headley confirmed what the Indian government has long alleged and the government of Pakistan has long denied: the Lashkar attackers were trained, equipped and bank-rolled by Pakistan’s military intelligence agency — the Directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence, or ISI — and, by extension, the Pakistani government.

The Institute for Conflict Management, a New Delhi-based think-tank that keeps a daily record of terrorist incidents in South Asia, alleges that at present there are 43 active terrorist groups. Some, such as Lashkar, receive support from the Pakistani military and members of the country’s wealthy Islamist anti-American elite, and some do not.

5 types of terrorists groups

A study done recently by a U.S. government think-tank exclusively for members of Congress and obtained by CBC News sorts the groups into five categories.

1)Globally oriented groups such as al-Qaeda, 2) Afghanistan-oriented militants such as the Quetta-Shura, led by the Taliban’s Mullah Omar, 3) India- and Kashmir-oriented groups, such as Lashkar-e-Taiba, 4) violent sectarian militants such as the anti-Shia Sipah-e-Shabah, and 5) domestically oriented militants that have turned on the Pakistani government.

(uncle attacks only al keeda ones as they target western contries- let go off others lightly )

It also underlines a concern voiced by Canadian and American intelligence experts that young radicalized Muslim men from the West are trickling into remote militant training camps in Pakistan’s frontier provinces to learn terrorist tradecraft and will someday return to put their terrorist training to use at home. There are already examples.
Faisal Shahzad, a naturalized U.S. citizen of Pakistani origin who, in May 2010, attempted to set off a crudely constructed car bomb in New York’s Times Square.
The Pakistan Taliban claimed responsibility. And when the leaders of the Toronto 18 were looking to get terrorism training, Lashkar-e-Taiba was the group they contacted.

( so the 5 types of terrorists groups classified are a crap as Let and Pakiban though classified under India specific and domestic are into global terror- read western interests)

Congressmen on both sides of the House, according to the congressional study paper, are questioning the wisdom of existing U.S. foreign assistance programs being given to a nation that may not have the intention and/or capacity to be an effective U.S. partner.
Even so, the study also concludes the U.S. cannot afford to throw its apparently double-dealing ally under the bus. If it did, China, or perhaps Iran, might be happy to step in and be Pakistan’s new best friend.

In addition, an important goal of U.S. foreign policy in the post-9/11 period is the creation of a more stable, democratic, and prosperous Pakistan that would combat religious militancy(laughable goal) and help prevent another 9/11 style attack on the U.S( more truthful here). Since Pakistan is the epicentre of Islamist anti-Amerian militancy, the U.S. will have to stay engaged in Pakistan no matter how much it suspects its erstwhile ally is playing a double game.

Uncle will stay enegaged in TSP as long as it has mischief potential towards India. Its original purpose is slowly unravelling to the detriment of the west. Uncle will contiue to support TSP against India for the forseeable future.
However it will continue to cultivate India leveraging both TSP and India maintaining a fine balance. Even if India has decisive edge wrt to TSP, it will never support India fully. Even if TSP goes down the barrell, uncle will make sure its remnant will create some mischief on India.
More or less it is India alone which has to give the death blow to the entity called TSP and absorb it.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Jun 2011 02:40

cheenum wrote:
krisna wrote:At a meeting of Pakistan’s Corps Commanders at the general headquarters in Rawalpindi this week, two important messages came through. ..
Did people notice HT has used BRSpeak of “Crore Commanders”... there are way too many BRLurks than we can imagine.

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Jun 2011 02:43

cheenum wrote:
ramana wrote:Cheenum, Nice theory but has to be based on reality. Kargil gamble was with TSPA regular troops from Northern Light Infantry. Any jihadis were porters for them.
I included TSPA in the Jehadi columns. There were few non PA jehadis but then these were also ex PA/SSG/ISI. i'll give you an analogy to the current state of TSP... in rural TN, after harvests if there is an outbreak of rats, farmers know that they can't catch/kill all rats. What they do instead is catch couple of rats, tie their musharaff and let them lose... the "demush" rats, eat their full and then realise they cant pass it out and get really pissed and attack other fellow rats... this causes a marked loss in rat population is just a few days. Kargill and the border fencing in J&K are essentially "de-mushing" the Pakrats.

Nice egsample cheenum mian

krisna · Post by **krisna** » 12 Jun 2011 03:06

Ahmadiya community fit to be killed, says pamphlets in Pakistan

Pamphlets branding members of the minority Ahmadiya community as "wajib-ul-qatl" (fit to be killed) and inciting people to attack them are being openly circulated in Pakistan's textile industry hub of Faisalabad, according to a media report.
The pamphlets list the names of several Ahmadiya industrialists, doctors and businesses.

The pamphlets were issued by the All Pakistan Students Khatm-e-Nubuwat Federation and are being circulated at main shopping plazas and important commercial centres of the city in Punjab province.
"To shoot such people is an act of jihad and to kill such people is an act of sawab (blessing)," the pamphlets say.

Quoting from fromSS blog - Thanks Ramana,

The situation for the PA changed when the more pious (the high church or the Wahhabi/Deobandi/Salafi/Takfiri components of the Al Qaeda and Allied Movement, AQAM) began to brutally and successfully challenge the less pious (the low church which is the corrupt Pakistani State organs such as the politicians, the armed forces, intelligence services or the law-enforcement agencies etc. or the Shi'a or the Ahmedis et al)

How do these developments compare with the situation in early Islam ? There is a startlingly close resemblance. As we shall see, from these similarities we can deduce a certain trajectory of events in Pakistan by comparing and contrasting the two situations.

The Kharajites also believe that any Muslim ruler (or even the Caliph) who does not correctly apply the Koran and the Sunnah of the Prophet (PBUH) is liable for killing by those who diligently follow Islam. This is very dicey because who is to determine who is a 'good Muslim' and who is a 'bad Muslim'. We can immediately draw parallels to what is happening in present-day Pakistan. The various groups comprising the TTP kill people and claim that these were 'bad Muslims' and liable to elimination in the hands of the 'good Muslims'. Such a thought process has permeated everywhere within Pakistan

The Kharaji thought process is thus deeply entrenched in various sections of Pakistan. It is no wonder therefore that the biggest Kharajites are the Pakistani Army themselves.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 12 Jun 2011 03:12

^^^Well, let's see how much the mere printing and dissemination of pamphlets can do in Pak. If they actually manage to incite violence and create more instability, well, then raa agents know what to do to stir the ethnic pot in karachi, the sectarian one in south pakjab, and the anti-pork-eating-cheeni one in the northern areas, no? /Just thinking aloud, onlee. Everybody knows that raa has either willingness nor ability to execute such ops in hostile territory only...

harbans · Post by **harbans** » 12 Jun 2011 04:14

There is clearly a lack of national pride. There can be no other reason that we worship invaders who raped, looted and sacked our cities. We worship them and name sons after them only because we share the same religion with them.

This is what folks here have been saying since the formation of the forum. But this is also so significant coming from a Paki it's amazing. Note significantly also the comments: Most WKK's.

Hate such comments, WKKs don't even wait a bit to let Paki's commence on their own stuff. It's as if they are prompting someone who has forgotten the script. This is very evident even on Paki forums like deff. I actually shiver in my dhoti seeing such folks (WKKs) posting and trying in some contorted imaginary way making peace..they exist in India in numbers i did not comprehend before. I am scared of the WKK, genuinely. The WKK is going to screw us all. He is going to in full 'laad' to first create district son the border with free movement of goods and people in bordering districts on the Indian side in Jammu, Kashmir, Punjab, and some of Rajasthan. Then when Pukistan collapses and we have the refugee problem, these district will become Muslim majority. I'm scared at some stage the borders will be made porus to cover so called 'trust deficits'/

I don't see a savior of India 150 years hence. We are losing. We'll be out populated and out bred by the cult of Islamism. Folks here are not realizing the massively rapid change of demographics in India. We are not witnessing Pakistan's collapse yet. Pakistan and it's ideology has everything going in it's favor till now. Our dealing with Islam has no solution but a direct confrontation with the doctrine of Dar Ul Harb and Dar ul Islam. Cults must be redefined to fit excluvist doctrine. Some Abrahmic religions will enter the definition of cult then and not religion. It's easier tackling the subversiveness of Islamist ideology then. Else there is no solution.

Even if Pakistan collapses, and the doctrine is not challenged, we are finished in 150 years or less. Maximum i am giving 150 years for the survival of core civilization in India. Even after Pak's collapse. Unless we challenge doctrine and debate it like the ancient Indian gur debates on Dvait, advait and the great Rishi's and Shankaracharyas we produced. They and India all evolved in thought due to doctrinal debate and meditation. We give that a miss today we are doomed. Pakistan's collapse notwithstandsing.

Hari Seldon · Post by **Hari Seldon** » 12 Jun 2011 05:06

Image == 1000 words and all that...

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Jun 2011 05:10

Harbans, you mean in kachha and not dhoti!

BTW nice scare. Civilizational collapse after enemy neutralization in Indic milieu doesnt occur for a long time unlike in West from Athens vs Persia, Rome vs Carthage, GB vs Nazi Germany.

What happens is a new group takes the reins after the initial group gets exhausted by the struggle e.g. Sungas followed the Mauryas, Mughals followed the Sultans who fought the Mongols and so on. The 2Gs followed the Nehru family in recent times!