Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP): May 30, 2011

[shiv]

Just had a thought. Cohen wrote of how Pakis negotiate with a gun held to their heads.

Teresita Schaffer wrote of how Pakis negotiate and how personal contacts and personal obligations and favors are important in Pakistanis dealings with others.

Put the two together and I get a new insight. It's like this. If you are negotiating with someone who theratens to commit suicide if you don't agree with him you have two choices. One is to say "Bugger off. Go shoot yourself. I don't give a damn". The other is to say "No. I care for you. I want you intact. Don't shoot yourself. Let me try and give you what you want"

Guess which route the USA has consistently taken?

[BajKhedawal]

@All vegans ^^^ it was just a joke. I just borrowed Paul Kagan's "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" metaphor. OK, I did not realize vegans would be so offended (who knew?).

I am hereby changing (edit/replace all) references to "vegetarian" with "Amul cheese". Will that satisfy piskologists ? Probably not.

@ BajKhedawal ^^ Lets' not lose sight of the bigger issue: This is not a food fight; "The sensitivity of our community has been offended" or whatever. It's how we react to provocation from people who mean us harm not about menu choices.

Its not a menu choice nor a food fight, its my belief system which I feel strongly about, and know is worth protecting. I feel the same way when some homo designer puts pictures of my gods on chadis and slippers, or some mofo hussain draws my mother naked, or when I hear news of some pakis/BD's/lizards trespessing with impunity on my land. To a non native it may sound as a complex weave of belief systems, but I am very comfertable with it.

Now that you realize it causes offence, its case closed.

[saip]

Pakistan I am sure has Pakistan Registration act in the lines of Indian Registration Act. So how can they lose the documents? Anyone can search these public records. To lose them they have to tear up pages or destroy the register itself. I am sure only ISI could have done that

[raajneesh]

edited.

[GuruPrabhu]

Now that you realize it causes offence, its case closed.

Case closed on what? Are you against others having their freedom to say what they want about vegetarian and what not? Are you making out to be an Ayatollah?

It offends me immensely to see folks get worked up about mere opinions.

"Now that you realize it causes offence, its case closed.", say what?

[Raghavendra]

Kashmir in focus – part 1: Where’s the ‘Azad’ in Azad Jammu and Kashmir? http://tribune.com.pk/story/193849/kash ... d-kashmir/

[Airavat]

At least five militants and a tribal policeman were killed in a rebel ambush and a bomb attack at the Sarband checkpoint just outside the town of Bara in Khyber district. "More than 30 militants launched a two-pronged attack on a police checkpoint and after a gunfight five militants were killed while two policemen were wounded," senior police official Mohammad Ijaz told AFP. Police had recovered the bodies of the five militants, he added.

[Theo_Fidel]

From this article posted earlier.

http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... -of-afpak/

I see the words but don't see any action. Money & weapons flow freely.

Now, after almost 10 years of intense engagement, Pakistan and the U.S. appear set for another split; at least that was the consensus among the officials I spoke with. There was a pervasive sadness in these conversations. It was due in part to the sheer human effort that has gone into the U.S.-Pakistan relationship. A lot of spies and soldiers and diplomats and politicians have put years of their lives into making “AfPak” work, which requires making Pak work. A lot (not all) of that effort seems to be going down the drain, along with much of the billions of taxpayer dollars that financed it.

I don't understand this sadness. TSP's policies have created people who have killed more American civilians and soldiers than probably the rest of the world put together. The opposite of love is indifference. The day America is indifferent of TSP's plight despite all its crazy threats the situation will turn for the better. Drug addicts need to be cut off not pampered and reasoned with. And abandonment is not enough, only isolation will work. First step would be to cut off all those RAPE who flit between the West and their hellhole, exploiting both. This is the one thing that would focus their minds. As long as they have their exit options they will continue to play this smelly game.

Finally, there is the tremendous sadness of Pakistan itself. The country doesn’t have enough water. It lacks the electricity to develop its industries. Literacy, by some reckonings, is actually declining. Democracy has been restored but the government is hardly stable. The one truly semi-stable institution, the military, is struggling against itself, just as Pakistanis are dividing, and attacking each other on an increasing scale (which is saying something).

But, in a way, the saddest thing of all, from a foreign-policy point of view — Pakistani or American — is that the one great card Pakistan has to play is to make itself a problem. Pakistan formed itself into a regional player through building its army, running terrorist proxies in Kashmir and Afghanistan, indulging in enough Islamist millenarianism to make itself frightening, and developing nuclear weapons. None of these strategies have a good future. But in the absence of a long-term committed relationship — what Holbrooke promoted as a “strategic partnership” — with the United States or, perhaps, with China, Pakistan is left with fear as its most successful export.

[Arjun]

Case closed on what? Are you against others having their freedom to say what they want about vegetarian and what not? Are you making out to be an Ayatollah?

It offends me immensely to see folks get worked up about mere opinions.

"Now that you realize it causes offence, its case closed.", say what?

Vegetarian was used as a pejorative, which is not acceptable. Nor is using 'non-vegetarian' as a pejorative. What part of this logic do you not understand?

[Lalmohan]

once again irony and satire are totally lost on the mango and not so mango BRF-ite

[Arjun]

once again irony and satire are totally lost on the mango and not so mango BRF-ite

care to explain? Who's supposedly indulging in a spot of irony and satire out here ? Cosmo or GP?

[Hari Seldon]

^^^ Does it matter? Giving extra importance to every puffed-up opinion (or ego) is nice, maybe, but not very productive from the dhaga's POV. Still, the show goes on. The dhaga will move on. And so on and so forth.

[Arjun]

This discussion is OT but certainly matters !! The response from GP and Lalmohan leads me to believe there are some fundamental principles they don't quite grasp.

Anyway lets end this discussion. Lalmohan and GP are obviously members of the non-vegetarian logically challenged sub-species. (You can relax - that was just a spot of irony and satire from my side...)

[Lalmohan]

the only thing i fundamentally grasp are lalchix

[rajanb]

The only Lalchix left are in China.

Pakis have Harachix

West Bengal has recoloured their Chix.

[UBanerjee]

@All vegans ^^^ it was just a joke. I just borrowed Paul Kagan's "Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys" metaphor. OK, I did not realize vegans would be so offended (who knew?).

I am hereby changing (edit/replace all) references to "vegetarian" with "Amul cheese". Will that satisfy piskologists ? Probably not.

@ BajKhedawal ^^ Lets' not lose sight of the bigger issue: This is not a food fight; "The sensitivity of our community has been offended" or whatever. It's how we react to provocation from people who mean us harm not about menu choices.

Its not a menu choice nor a food fight, its my belief system which I feel strongly about, and know is worth protecting. I feel the same way when some homo designer puts pictures of my gods on chadis and slippers.

Don't you see the irony of this at least a little

[rajanb]

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.as ... 2011_pg1_1

Army arrests brigadier over ‘links’ with Hizb

* ISPR says Brigadier Ali Khan was not involved in operations, was detained last month

* Efforts being made to trace other members of Hizbul Tahrir

* Says detention shows army is determined to weed out bad actors

* Wife rejects allegations against Khan

Pakistan now consists of Actors, Bad Actors and Non-State Actors.

I do expect the categories of actors to grow.

I think Pakistan is a virtual state with virtual actors w/o any virtues.

[Arjun]

the only thing i fundamentally grasp are lalchix

Aah lalchix....those are kosher for vegetarians too !

[Lalmohan]

^^^ does it matter if they are non-veg?

[amit]

The point is if anyone thinks of a meal, either veg or non-veg, in the presence of Lal Chixs and not about, er more Manly pursuits, then one needs to bring up the same questions...

[SSridhar]

. . . following questions remain:
1. What lines did the Brig cross so that he was arrested? Assassination Plot? Internecine HuT rivalry?
OR
2. Is it the reverse, the HuT sold him out for not being green enough?

The HuT is a very disciplined organization and its members are quite committed. I would rule out the second issue. I can only guess that this is an attempt to please the master.

[Raghavendra]

Detained Pak brigadier denied promotion due to extremist leanings

Published: Wednesday, Jun 22, 2011, 14:44 IST
Place: ISLAMABAD | Agency: Reuters
A Pakistan Army brigadier detained for his alleged links with a banned militant group was earlier denied promotion because of his extremist leanings and had been under surveillance for some time.

The military yesterday confirmed that Brigadier Ali Khan, serving as director for rules and regulations at the General Headquarters in Rawalpindi, had been detained. Reports said Khan was suspected of having links with Hizb-ut-Tehrir, a group that has been calling for a rebellion against "pro-America" leaders.

Khan, who had trained in the US and was set to retire soon, was denied promotion in the past because of his extremist leanings, the Dawn newspaper reported today. Before his posting at General Headquarters, Khan served as a commander in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.

Before his arrest, Khan was under surveillance because of his contacts with extremists and he was held for interrogation once those interactions became too frequent, sources told the newspaper.

Khan's detention was approved by army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani who was "very disturbed" to learn about the infiltration of Hizb-ut-Tehrir at such a senior level, a source said.

Khan was detained by the military's Special Investigation Branch on May 6, four days after al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden was killed in a covert US raid in the garrison city of Abbottabad. He is the senior-most military officer to be arrested for extremist links.

[Lalmohan]

this brigadoon-al-HuTti is being set up
smells very very fishy
ofcourse unkil media will be lapping it up

[Jaspreet]

Guess which route the USA has consistently taken?

The third one.

Rather than explaining what it is, let me tell an Ajit joke. Ajit says "I'll put my enemy in a Carbon dioxide tank. Carbon won't let him live and oxygen won't let him die."

US appears to not want Pak to totally die but to remain alive enough to do their bidding.

[RajeshA]

Brigadier Ali Khan seems to have been sidelined simply because he was a Pushtun and had seen through Pakjabi Army's anti-Pushtun policies and was unwilling to take the exploitation of Pushtuns lying down by listening to the Pakjabi crore commanders!

So the Pakjabi Army get rid of a Pushtun and at the same time they can sell it to the United States as their fight against extremism within the Army!

Pakistani Army Paindabad!

[archan]

^^ saar it was liquid oxygen AFAIR.
And (non)vegetarians, basss maaaf karo yaar!!

[sum]

Orbat concludes the same as BRF, that TSP is in for big trouble:

# The USA has few cards in Afghanistan. The Pakistanis/ISI are not the masters of Afghanistan's destiny, although one may state that the Taliban in Afghanistan south of line Wardak-Shindand are Pakistan dependent as are near-Pakistani proxies.
# Kunnar, Laghman, Nuristan is a different game. It is Al Qaeda plus a combination of anti Pakistan Taliban groups with a heavy mixture of Swat. Dir, Bajaur, and Mohmand Talibans.

# The north is to a large extent pro Russian groups controlled with exception of pockets of Taliban in Baghlan and Kunduz. The Northern Alliance, Dostum and some other commanders will definitely look towards Russia, India and Iran rather than Pakistan.
# A new Northern Alliance is already being created with possible aerial fire support at Kulyab, Dehdadi, Kunduz and Herat Airfields. Russia will not allow the Taliban to have a clean run north of Hindu Kush; neither would Iran and India
# In all probability the Taliban will have a clean run till line Kabul-Shindand but no further north.
# US has already abandoned large parts of Kunnar, Laghman, and Nuristan where the anti Pakistan Taliban are based.
# Note that 80 % of Taliban out of which 90 % are from Afghanistan regard Pakistan as a friend. There is no Pakistani regular army all along the 1500 Km stretch of Afghan border from Zhob to Taftan which is freely used for logistics by the 90 % of Taliban who are against USA and already pro Pakistan.
# The result will be an Afghanistan again divided in north and south regardless of Pakistan or USA liking it.
# That Pakistan has been using Pashtuns as its pawns in its wars is now even very clear to the Pashtuns. The greatest beneficiary of money from Afghan wars has been the North Punjab.
# My fear is that Taliban backlash against Pakistan will be some kind of subconscious Pashtun backlash against Pakistan where Pashtuns will use religion to justify rebellion and even taking over Pakistan or some kind of secession. Here they would be aided by a simultaneous Baloch war of secession and a Punjab and Sindh paralyzed by inflation and unemployment.
# Pakistan is a suicide bombers factory. India may not be ideal but at least a young man can hope something in India but not in Pakistan which is a bastion of corruption, nepotism and red tapism. Inflation, poverty and despondency makes Pakistanis kill themselves or aspiring to kill some one, if not physically then spiritually and morally.
# A military coup in Pakistan can also not be ruled out. It has not succeeded before but it may next time.
# A serious strategic imbalance of Pakistan is that all institutions have lost their coercive value. This includes the military, the ISI and everybody who once mattered.
# The majority in Pakistan may be moderate but the extremists are the best organized and most ready to die. So Pakistan may be the worst nightmare of this world in next five to ten years.
# The Pakistani military and intelligence and its security apparatus is just not capable of containing extremism. What can the omnipotent USA do about it if they cannot manage to make an Frontier Corps training centre worth 31 Million USD at Tank which was long planned, or bring 1000-MW electricity to Pakistan because of the closing down of the CASA 1000 project.
# An Indo Pak showdown with nuclear weapons may become a reality within next five years.
# With water resources decreasing and population rising an Indo-Pak conflict is a matter of few years unless Pakistan breaks down from within, not into Balkanization, but into a constant civil war bordering near breakdown.
# The militarization of the Indo-Pak has to see a showdown unless one party breaks down without a war. Pakistan seems more likely and the last resort may be a nuclear exchange or a cold start war with India which further weakens Pakistan.
# The US would not be able to make a dent with India over Pakistan as Pakistan is a solid Chinese concubine although its US relationship is a more temporary and fluctuating Mutaah or Sigheh (Temporary Marriage).

[Rajiv Lather]

Four more Paki army officers under investigation - I bet all of them are Pushtuns. This may connect with the earlier american leak that five people have been arrested.

Added later: All four are majors.

[shiv]

Guess which route the USA has consistently taken?

The third one.

Rather than explaining what it is, let me tell an Ajit joke. Ajit says "I'll put my enemy in a Carbon dioxide tank. Carbon won't let him live and oxygen won't let him die."

US appears to not want Pak to totally die but to remain alive enough to do their bidding.

That was "Liquid oxygen mein dooba de. Liquid jeena nahin dega aur oxygen marna nahin dega"
But what is of interest to me is the fact that the US has got entangled in this "biradari obligation" business with Pakistan to such an extent that they allow Pakistan to bargain with a gun to its head and support Pakistan rather than saying "Go kill yourself"

[Lalmohan]

what if the TSPA actually fears a pashtun coup?

[Rajiv Lather]

Eureka moment for me: Pakistan today is more afraid of Pushtuns and possibility of Pakhtoonistan rather than India or America. Hence their reluctance of sending army into North Waziristan.

Situation in Baluchistan is even worse. I heard a senior politician (MNA) on Paki tv claim that 90% of Baluch youth was anti-pakistan.

[raajneesh]

Pakistan army jawan beating pakhtoons in swat in the name of Taliban. They have treated Pakhtoons in swat with barbarism. Pakis have occupied their territories with force since 1947.

[Raghavendra]

Fixed link, proper way to embed youtube video is like this

Code: Select all

[youtube]a5vuL6xSK0o[/youtube]

[Agnimitra]

From the mouths of the few conscientious journalists left in Pakistan:

Media rounds on Pakistan's spies

Meanwhile, several journalists have come out with accounts of the horror and humiliation they suffered at the hands of the intelligence officials for filing reports that did not suit the interests of Pakistan's powerful security establishment.

Some were picked up and physically tortured. Others were forced out of their jobs through pressure exerted on their employers.

Shahzada Zulfiqar, a senior journalist, lost a lucrative television job for doing a story that should have earned him accolades.

He had interviewed an elusive anti-Iran militant leader, Abdul Malik Regi, in Pakistan's south-western province of Balochistan.

The interview was aired in December 2008, at a time when Pakistani authorities were vehemently denying Iranian claims that Mr Regi was hiding in Pakistan.

Saleem Shahzad had complained of ISI threats "For two years, I suffered economic hardships and was ostracised by the media houses as giving me a job could create problems for them," he says.

Instead of resorting to the old-fashioned censorship and press advisories, they have learned to deal "strategically" with selected cases that can serve as an example for others, she says.

This policy worked successfully for a long time.

For a decade between 1979-88, the Pakistani media as a rule did not carry reports on the true role of the ISI in the Afghan war.

During the 1999 Kargil war with India, the Pakistani security establishment insisted that the intruders into Indian territory were "Kashmiri freedom fighters", not the Pakistani army.

It took the Pakistani public several years to discover that actually soldiers of the Northern Light Infantry, a military formation in the Gilgit-Baltistan region, had been deployed in the Kargil sector, and then their supply lines cut off to give the impression that militants were fighting there.

A demonstration held in the town of Hunza in the Gilgit-Baltistan region by their angry relatives a week into the war never got reported anywhere in Pakistan.

More recently, while chasing information about a couple of incidents of murder and rape involving Pakistani soldiers in Pakistan-administered Kashmir, I ran into difficulties getting pictures of demonstrations held by the relatives of the victims.

Local journalists said they feared persecution if pictures were leaked to the mainstream media.

[Lalmohan]

i distinctly recall mushy trumpeting "vibrant press free speech" in his hey day of moderate enlightenment - which ofcourse is another blatant lie perpetrated to pull the wool over unkil's eyes

not that mushy needs any more data to prove what a kameena he really is...

wack thoo...

[ramana]

Our chackojoseph writes about Paki connections to Somali piracy. And same time they go on anti-piracy patrols. Wonder if that is to tip off the pirates?

Please tweet, blog what ever and spread the news:

Terror at the High Seas: Pakistan plugs into Piracy

Terror at the high seas : Pakistan plugs into piracy
By P. Chacko Joseph | June 19th, 2011 | Category: Opinions and Articles | 8 comments

In a worrying development, the Pakistani Captain of MV Suez (an Egyptian ship), a so called Pakistani charity organisation, sea pirates, the Pakistani Navy and the Pakistani government have been colluding to play a game of one-upmanship with India. This pattern coincides with the Pakistani terror game which once began to counter Indian Army and is now a global phenomenon. This time, Pakistan’s irregular army/navy are the pirates.

Pakistani pirates are not a new phenomenon. In February 2008, there were news reports of Pakistani pirates attacking Indian fishermen near Porbandar. In September 2009, the Indian Navy said that Somali Pirates were using weapons that had been manufactured in Pakistan. INS Mysore had reported the Pakistani link to Somali pirates. The evidence was found during an action against pirate ship Salahuddin. The rocket-propelled grenade launcher, the rifles and the ammunition seized aboard the vessel bore the markings of Pakistan’s Ordinance Factory. In addition some Pakistani nationals were caught with Somali pirates, indicating that Pakistanis have begun penetrating the Somali Piracy domain.


(Image: Pakistani navy)
PNS Babur or Pakistani Pirate Ship Babur? Begining of a state sponsered Piracy era?

There is increased attack on ships which have Indian seamen abroad and the Somali Pirates allegedly withheld the Indian seamen as hostage, even after the ransom had been paid. However, the Indians were not held back in the MV Suez case. This clearly shows the Pakistani involvement via its infamous external intelligence agency, the ISI and the terror outfits it controls. If one remembers, Muhammad Ajmal Amir Kasab – the lone captured terrorist of the Mumbai terror attack (November 26, 2008, also known as 26/11) – had told investigators that he was trained by Pakistan Marines, an elite unit of the Pakistan Navy. US agencies investigating David Coleman Headley (who surveyed Indian targets for the Mumbai attacks), had put it on record that Pakistani Navy, at the behest of the Pakistan intelligence agency Inter Services Intelligence (ISI) had trained the Mumbai attackers. Similarly, Indian intelligence reports in September 2006 mention that the ISI was facilitating training of close to 150 LeT operatives in sea guerrilla warfare.


In the MV Suez case, the Pakistani establishment and its collusion with the Pakistani non-state actors is evidently visible. As per the plot, an MV Suez with the Captain being a Pakistani national and Indians as crew was hijacked by pirates. A Pakistani charity, usually used as legal fronts by Pakistani terror organisations, paid the ransom. It was again attacked and a Pakistani Naval Ship – PNS Babur – was conveniently available close to the hijacked ship. The press- release by the Indian Navy accuses PNS Babur of performing dangerous manoeuvres and putting in danger the Indian Naval Ship – INS Godavari and its crew, when it arrived to take over the escorting on MV Suez. Strangely, the Egyptian vessel which was under the command of the Pakistani captain did not respond to INS Godavari’s calls, as it sought to establish contact with MV Suez.

The involvement of Pakistan, via its non-state terror machinery is an indicator to the future of piracy on high seas. It is time, the world stands up and takes note.

Next sink the Babur or its siblings and say pirate sank the mother ship. Let the US sort the matter as they did with the onions.

[shiv]

Next sink the Babur or its siblings and say pirate sank the mother ship. Let the US sort the matter as they did with the onions.

Good idea. I would suggest randomly sinking it using a Brahmos from 250 km away. I am sure the mujahid captain and sailors will welcome death with a smile and there will be scent in the air as they croak.

[ramana]

When barnacles are available, why waste it. or blame it on a pindi gas explosion in the oil room.

[Lalmohan]

72 dolphins will appear and swim with them down to dawood junaid's locker whilst green wetsuited djinns lead them through the murky depths past the sheikh's resting place to the deep blue jannat

[ramana]

dawood junaid's locker = Davy Jones' locker

Yo yo and a bottle of zam zam cola!

Lalmohan,
I see you are fan of RLS "Treasure Island"!