Serial Blasts in Mumbai

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 17 Jul 2011 23:04

shiv wrote: There is a possibility that there are disgruntled Indian Muslim groups. These would be ideal fodder for Kiyani and co.
But we need to differentiate between people with a fundamental grievance in India being supported by Kiyani versus a group set up by Kiyani and co and infiltrated in by Pakistan (like Kasab). Kasabs have a smaller following in India but local groups with grievances can develop a bigger following. It is necessary to know what is going on.

Lets not be too politically correct and self righteous here boss. Kiyani/Paasha have a huge constituency among Indian Muslims. I would wager to bet that its fear of TSP that even Bollwyood dare not make any movies exposing TSP terror and promoting Indian nationalism. They could not have carried out their diabolical agenda if not for local support. The question is how does India manage this without pissing off Indian Muslims en masse and have a greater problem at hand. Best way to manage this situation is to rope in Indian Muslim elite like Javed Akhtar & Co and use their moral pulpit to weed out the blather from the rest. And there should be no politics in this. And some hard choices have to be made, for e.g., shaming RAPE chutiyas like Salman Khan and his ilk who claim that 26/11 was not TSP state sponsored; statements that give good PR to Paki ISI.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 17 Jul 2011 23:06

greatbong's take on mumbai attacks.
http://greatbong.net/2011/07/14/once-ag ... more-26329

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 17 Jul 2011 23:06

Karna_A wrote:There is no point in taking him seriously, though his statements border on being traitorous.
It's better to ignore what is being said and try to analyze what action is happening, as actions matter more than mere statements.
He is just a toy in hands of higher command.
"Jitne chabbi bhari ram ne, utna chale Khilona"

Khilona ka natak baazi todi der baad band ho jayegi, par aur ekh khilona nikal padega. And the first toy would have extracted its toll. One cannot feed the attack dog, neither it can be ignored. Threats can be handled in three ways:
1) Ignore them.
2) Stop them.
3) Launch equal or greater threats.

Since the media is in the pockets of some select players, #3 is going to be very difficult and counter-productive. The counter-threats will regroup the other players and media will carry the narrative "See, we told you so about their rabid communal agenda, yada yada blah blah".

Karna_A · Post by **Karna_A** » 17 Jul 2011 23:27

SwamyG wrote:Khilona ka natak baazi todi der baad band ho jayegi, par aur ekh khilona nikal padega. And the first toy would have extracted its toll. One cannot feed the attack dog, neither it can be ignored. Threats can be handled in three ways:
1) Ignore them.
2) Stop them.
3) Launch equal or greater threats.

Since the media is in the pockets of some select players, #3 is going to be very difficult and counter-productive. The counter-threats will regroup the other players and media will carry the narrative "See, we told you so about their rabid communal agenda, yada yada blah blah".

DS has to be both attacked and ignored. Now that's what Kangress does best is speaking with 2 mouths.
DS has to be attacked on his secular credentials. It's better to attack his perceived strength which is secularism.

He must be asked following questions:
(a) Are your statements your own thinking or someone calls you to say what factless things you say
(b) Why do you not raise issue of Muslim persecution in China. That means he is a either a coward or an atheist.
(c) Why do you not raise issue of Shia and Ahmediya persecution in TSP? Do you consider Shia and Ahmediya not muslims? These type of questions can trap him.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jul 2011 00:13

CRamS wrote:I agree that DogSingh should be ignored. .....

Err,

I think he should be countered. What archan is reminding is don't bring in political parties. He is despicable and his kind should be exposed for the charlatans they are.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 18 Jul 2011 01:23

[quote="ramana"]

CRamS - cool down. The last thing I want to do is ban you over this DVS fellow. JE Menon

OK saar, I agree, not worth getting banned over DVS. My apologies for going overboard.

Anindya · Post by **Anindya** » 18 Jul 2011 03:00

The bigger question is - exactly how much mis-direction and viewpoint engineering is actually going on in our media.

I was watching a Barkha show on NDTV - Naresh Fernandes rationalized the attacks as responses to 1993 riot non-action and the recent destruction of evidence of 2002 by Modi - hence, of course not so bad.

Shabhana, apart from mouthing some inanities, was irate that someone (in the panel) could have even hinted that Pakistan could be associated with terrorism.

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Jul 2011 04:06

Look Digvijay is an interesting side-show to politics, and he keeps it from becoming boring. But I think attacking the person and not his ideology - which in turn is connected to his party - and separating it out form the party he represents and which ahs not disowned him or offically reproved him - is the wrong way to go.

Digvijay actually has stopped talking of the "special last phone call" he got from Karkare ji - after the question was raised that his claim actually makes him the prime suspect. Ina ny criminal investigation about murder, a standrad procedure is to look for the last person to be in contact while the victim was still living. He or she is a potential suspect and other factors are needed to drop him/her from suspicion.

What if, hypothetically speaking, it was Karkareji's call to Digvijay that pressed the panic buttons in Digvijay or any organized conspiracy Digvijay was privy to? So he would be ina position to direct Qasab and co to finish Karkare off because Karkare had mentioned something that would expose the larger conspiracy in which DS was involved?

It was noticed that after this question was floated, he has stopped insisting on bringing up the "phone call" issue. If you really don't like him, these would be the holes to exploit.

Moreover we should actually openly appreciate his logic - and in return say, of course XXX cannot be ruled out! Question is why does he think "saffron" cannot be "ruled out"? If led on through that questioing he wil soon tie himself in knots. Precedence? Not proved yet. So by his own logic even his own involvement cannot be ruled out - because not being proved yet/before is not good enough to be ruled out!

But getting him to talk on his reasons as to why he jumps to the negative associations with the "Hindu" at every possible chance, is the gentler and more efficient way! I think also that his connections to the dynasty, to the party, and that the party does not restrain him - should be highlighted as much as possible. He is doing good propaganda for us - actually! I mucho appreciate him!

brihaspati · Post by **brihaspati** » 18 Jul 2011 04:15

Anindya wrote:The bigger question is - exactly how much mis-direction and viewpoint engineering is actually going on in our media.

I was watching a Barkha show on NDTV - Naresh Fernandes rationalized the attacks as responses to 1993 riot non-action and the recent destruction of evidence of 2002 by Modi - hence, of course not so bad.

Shabhana, apart from mouthing some inanities, was irate that someone (in the panel) could have even hinted that Pakistan could be associated with terrorism.

Don't worry - do you know the only people who have expressed any appreciation for Siddharaja Jayasimha of Gujarat - an islamist narrator just after his time, and a few modern Thaparites. Most historians try to ignore him, and society doe snot remember him - if at all , with hatred. Because over time his role in protecting the fledgling Islamist bases in Gujarat that ultimately helped Ulugh Khan in the long run - became clear. So in time these people's role will also be clear. But we have to go through this process by which they themselves get removed by the very forces they are now trying to protect. Only that clears the way for regeneration. Remember it is our current society which has produced them and therefore the current society has to be disillusioned with their own productivity.

None of these criminal shamming on the blasts, will hold up in history. Have to bear the pain for the moment though.

hardeepsingh · Post by **hardeepsingh** » 18 Jul 2011 04:16

I say

Sonia Gandhi's hand cannot be ruled out in the Mumbai blast.

What is Sonia Gandhi doing about neutralizing the Pakistan threat to India ? What is Rahul doing ?

The entire Gandhi family should be investigated on whether they were directly involved in these blasts.

The entire Gandhi family should be investigated on whether their policies are directly or indirectly responsible for these blasts and other blasts and other terrorist attacks.

Now, if I had made all of the above statements without the context of Digvij Singh, it would have provoked really violent reactions, such as accusations of slander, defamation, baseless allegations without any proof and even non-sense. Thanks to Digvijay Singh, it is ok to ask questions like above.

By the way, I am not doing an equal-equal. I dont think throwing inuendo on RSS is at the same level as asking the questions I have asked. I think questions I ask are far more plausible than the kind of questions Digvijay asks.

hardeepsingh · Post by **hardeepsingh** » 18 Jul 2011 05:10

If anyone was under the impression that Digvijay couldnt stoop any lower-look at this

http://www.hindustantimes.com/Digvijaya ... 22412.aspx

And some poor soul got banned on this forum for saying something........

Maybe he would have gotten off easy if he had just slapped around a few people.....

sanjeevpunj · Post by **sanjeevpunj** » 18 Jul 2011 06:15

The habit of discussing personalities tends to move a thread off the trail, and instead of focussing on the topic, we focus on the individuals, and people then start digging up the past,and eventually the thread gets derailed completely.This can be avoided easily and the thread can remain active and meaningful. As for xyz poor souls getting banned, the art of staying on a forum that makes sense should be learnt well,perhaps some do not want to learn so they just come in shout around and get banned.Really wishing you stay on and spend more time, it does help develop a balanced viewpoint being in BRF that is one plus point you can take back home.People who have brains that are a notch above the average intelligence in BR, might want to get away from the forum, and again it is their individual freedom,who stops anyone from making a fool of themselves? So welcome to the machine, dear sir.Have a good stay,and I hope you will begin to get involved a little seriously as time elapses.Then it all starts making a lot of sense.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jul 2011 06:45

Mumbai blasts: Arrested IM agent bares pact with Taliban to terrorize India

Terror outfit Indian Mujahideen has tied up with Taliban for sinister plans in India. Crime branch officers, who arrested a key IM operative, Danish Riyaz, in June claim to have unearthed details of the joint venture between IM and Taliban.

A senior crime branch officer said, "Emails and correspondence of Danish with five top terror operatives, including Haroon of Kolkata, have revealed this conspiracy across international borders. Haroon had also been to Hyderabad to meet Danish to discuss their plans."

These developments had taken place before Danish was arrested from Vadodara railway station in June. "According to Haroon's emails, 10 hand-picked youth from across the country were to be sent to Pakistan and then Afghanistan for terror training," said another senior officer of the crime branch.

Haroon is a suspect in the Mumbai blasts case and is believed to have been in touch with Taliban leaders, said the police. They are now probing whether the 10 youth were selected and sent for the special Taliban training programme.

"Danish has made crucial disclosures in this regard. We cannot reveal more at this juncture," said a crime branch officer. Danish, while in Jharkhand, had provided shelter to 2008 blast accused Tauqeer, Mujib and Abdul Raziq. He was wanted by the crime branch for this role in the serial blasts.

Danish was headed towards Gujarat with one objective—asking youth from the state to join IM. After the 2008 serial blasts in Ahmedabad, a number of IM men were arrested. This had weakened the IM network in the state.

Crime branch investigators said: "We believe that Danish had spoken to some people in Gujarat before he came to the state. We are working to identify these local contacts."

To tide over a financial crisis faced by IM, the operatives had carried out a robbery in Madhya Pradesh. Later, 17 people were arrested in this regard and they confessed to their involvement with IM and that the money was to be used for terror strikes.

"Danish acted as the treasurer and head-hunter for IM. He used to manage all the funds generated by various means. The money was used to support families of IM operatives who have been caught in various terror attacks," said crime branch officers.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jul 2011 07:01

Digvijaya loses it, slaps BJP workers

Congress general secretary Digvijaya Singh slapped some activists of the Bharatiya Janata Yuva Morcha (BJYM), the youth wing of the BJP, who waved black flags at him during his visit to Ujjain on Sunday. The group was protesting against Singh’s recent remark that he did not rule out the involvement of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh in the July 13 blasts in Mumbai.

“I have said nothing wrong that deserves black flags,” Singh told mediapersons later. Asked why he lost his temper, he said, “I am not weak”.

This is not the first time Singh beat up political adversaries. In 2006, he punched a protester of the Kshatriya Mahasabha in Ujjain.

This time, Singh lost his cool after realising the BJYM’s strategy to stop his car. Eyewitnesses said his motorcade was passing through the Juna Somwaria area when he saw some youths standing on the roadside with garlands. Assuming they wanted to welcome him, Singh stopped the car but instead of being garlanded he was heckled by activists who emerged from hiding with black flags.

An annoyed Singh chased the men and slapped some while stick-wielding Congress workers joined him in the melee. Agitated BJYM activists later ransacked a hotel in the Dughtalai locality that Singh was to inaugurate.

The police registered a case but Singh’s name did not figure in it.

In this 'The Hindu' report, they mention that BJYM ransacked a hotel. Due to some unknown reasons, they forgot to mention that Digvijay Singh slapped some people.

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jul 2011 07:06

HuJI man, aide picked up from Bihar

As part of a nationwide crackdown on suspected terrorists, two persons were arrested in Bihar's Kishanganj district late on Saturday in connection with Wednesday’s serial blasts in Mumbai. The main suspect has been identified as Harkat-ul-Jihad-al-Islami (HuJI) operative Mohammad Riyazul Sarkar, said to be a resident of North Dinajpur, West Bengal.

In the course of interrogation, Sarkar had first identified himself as Akash Khan, a resident of Gujarat. Later he gave various names and addresses.

Mohammad Mahtab Alam, the owner of the house where Sarkar was staying for the last 15 days, is also in police custody. One of his hands is said to have burn injuries.

Director general of police Neelmani said the security forces were verifying the identity of Sarkar, who had been residing in the area for the past seven days. He knew Kannada, Gujarati and Bengali, Neelmani added.

Sources in the district police said Sarkar had been taken to a police station for questioning by a team of special branch and officials of the Intelligence Bureau and National Investigating Agency. They will be handed over to the Mumbai police later.

Three cell phones and some documents in the Marathi language were recovered from Sarkar, a police official said.

Some days ago, a person with a fake passport was arrested in Kishanganj district. “While the passport had the photograph of Mohammed Taveraj, it has been issued in favour of Mohammed Rahimuddin, son of Ajsahin of Hyderabad in Andhra Pradesh and was issued by Hyderabad passport office in 2006,” superintendent of police RK Mishra said.

arun · Post by **arun** » 18 Jul 2011 07:25

abhishek_sharma wrote:Probe role of terror groups, including Hindu outfits: Digvijay

Continuing his tirade against RSS, Congress leader Digvijay Singh on Sunday alleged that it was “making bomb factories” and demanded that role of all kinds of terror groups, including Hindu outfits, should be probed in connection with the Mumbai serial blasts.

“I have been saying that RSS was spreading terrorism in the country and it has been making bomb factories,” Mr. Singh told reporters.

When asked about his statement on Saturday not ruling out involvement of RSS in the Mumbai blasts, he said, “I only said that role of all kinds of terrorist organisations, including Hindu terror outfits, should be probed.”

The Congress general secretary had courted controversy on Saturday when he said that he does not rule out the involvement of Sangh in Mumbai serial blasts, evoking criticism and condemnation from BJP.

“I do not rule out anything. If they want evidence about Sangh’s involvement in terror activity, I have got evidence. But not in this case,” Mr. Singh had told the media.

Digvijay Singh may have erred in his estimation that pinning the blame on the RSS may have traction from a communal vote bank gathering perspective. Perhaps he may have done better by pinning the blame on the the Mossad and CIA

.

The Iranian News Agency IRNA reporting on the comments of one Asif Mohd Khan, an MLA of the Delhi Assembly:

Indian leader suspects Mossad-CIA handiwork in Mumbai blasts

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jul 2011 07:36

Outsourcing terror: Ajit Doval

(Ajit Doval is former chief of the Intelligence Bureau and currently director, Vivekananda International Foundation, New Delhi )

When a government fails to prevent, identify or neutralise terrorists, it indicates inefficiency and systemic inadequacy. But when terrorists refuse to own responsibility of an attack, the causes are much more complex and sinister. Terrorism is violence for a cause and terrorists always want the world to know about their existence, their cause(s) and the power they wield. So when they strike but don’t seek publicity then they are working as a proxy.

There are strong indications that the July 13 blasts in Mumbai were a joint operation of the Indian Mujahideen (IM), certain underworld groups and external forces. If this is true, then the triple blasts were an early warning of some serious internal security threats that India may face in the near future.

The reasons behind this observation are as follows: After 26/11, the Students Islamic Movement of India (Simi) — IM is only a front to mislead the security agencies — has been aggressively organising themselves. Thanks to India’s soft policies, security agencies are reluctant to initiate any action against anti-national elements unless and until a criminal case is possible.

The repeal of the Prevention of Terrorism Act, 2002, (Pota) has emboldened Simi and put the law-enforcing agencies on the backfoot. In a meeting after the September 13, 2008, attacks in Delhi, the Simi leadership decided that the organisation should take advantage of the favourable environment to recruit people for jihad. They also decided to refrain from sporadic acts of terror till they strengthened themselves enough to make big strikes. While they strengthened their relations with Pakistan through the Lashkar-e-Taiba and the underworld, their role was by and large confined to assisting the Pakistan-based terrorists. Their (Simi/IM) new strengths, good ground knowledge and local contacts are worrying. India’s inadequate laws, ill-equipped police force and the absence of political will to deal with the threat have only increased the problem.

Simi/IM is only a motley group of youth recruited and motivated by Pakistan for indigenisation of terror in India. It has negligible support among the Indian Muslims and all Muslim outfits have denounced their ideology and activities. Other than a vague slogan for jihad, it has no specific political demands or any cause. Its genesis lies in post 9/11 predicament of the Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), when the agency realised that in the changed global environment it needed a tactical shift in its strategy of using terrorism as an instrument of State policy.

To save themselves, they made Simi their front organisation. Using Dawood Ibrahim, CAM Bashir, a Simi leader from Mumbai, was called to Dubai in 2001 and the process of converting a radical Islamic youth organisation into a Pakistan-controlled terrorist outfit started. However, Simi’s terrorist performance fell far short of Pakistan’s expectations and many were accused of making money without doing much. But 26/11 forced Pakistan to resurrect it.

The ISI rated 26/11 as a successful covert operation but the exposure of its nationals made the overall cost unaffordable. So it re-doubled its efforts to re-organise Simi, hoping to increasingly use the group for direct actions rather than the support role they were playing. Last week’s Mumbai attacks is a manifestation of this effort: Simi is being accessed, financed and controlled through locations in West Asia and the underworld is being primed to enhance its striking capabilities. The group is also emerging as a converging point for the ISI, crime syndicates, radicalised local youth to bleed India. If Pakistan and the radical forces supported by it succeed in their nefarious designs of indigenising terror, it could lead to violent communal conflicts, a long cherished objective of Pakistan. To thwart this, our response should be imaginative and well calibrated.

The next set of problems emanate from the fact that our counter-terrorist doctrines, structures and systems have evolved around the threats from foreign terrorists. Apprehending domestic problems, the government has always denied that there could be local participation. But this reality needs to be accepted so that the intelligence agencies can include domestic players in their coverage. This acceptance will also increase the role and responsibility of the district and local-level intelligence units of the states that are in a state of neglect. The National Intelligence Grid is also a welcome step and needs to be pursued on a war footing.

In the emerging scenario, the government must increase their contacts with the religious, social and civil society Muslim leaders and deny any space to foreign-inspired subversive elements. It is important that while taking firm actions against anti-national elements, the innocents are protected and collateral damages are avoided. Last but not the least, political parties should stop politicising terror since it can be catastrophic if we have to face its indigenous variant.

The Mumbai blasts are an early warning for a more serious long-term internal security threat. We have many things in our favour and the nation is capable of meeting the threats. But to do this, the political parties must start looking at the problem from a national — and not an electoral — perspective.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jul 2011 08:06

CRamS wrote:
shiv wrote: There is a possibility that there are disgruntled Indian Muslim groups. These would be ideal fodder for Kiyani and co.
But we need to differentiate between people with a fundamental grievance in India being supported by Kiyani versus a group set up by Kiyani and co and infiltrated in by Pakistan (like Kasab). Kasabs have a smaller following in India but local groups with grievances can develop a bigger following. It is necessary to know what is going on.
Lets not be too politically correct and self righteous here boss. Kiyani/Paasha have a huge constituency among Indian Muslims. .

CRamS - please don't go overboard accusing me of blindness when you are unable to understand what I have written. You just don't like anyone replying to you so I tend to ignore your post while I reply to your points and I erred in quoting you and am being told off by you for that error. My mistake in attempting to educate you that you are only half right.

I err again but will point out your blinkers.

Indian Muslims do not need Kiyani/Pasha to hate India and Hindus. They can do it on their own. And while you raise a shrill cry against Kiyani/Pahsha and kick and scream if anyone so much as makes a grunt in reply - you ignore the elephant in the room as you idol worship Kiyani's power over Indians. Guess who is being politically correct?

archan · Post by **archan** » 18 Jul 2011 08:16

From what I saw in TV news: they questioned a certain "bum man" who is an expert bomb maker and is serving time in an Indian jail for 1993 blasts. The guy recently talked to someone in Pak. Interesting. What is more interesting that they now found him to be possessing a sim card/phone. Wow. This is the level of security we have for such a high profile terrorist? had the blasts not happened recently, this gentleman would probably have been using this 'facility' without problem.
Sometimes I feel just about everyone is for sale.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jul 2011 08:24

I think it would be an act of blindness if we on BRF and India in general were so ignorant as to assume that "islamism" and "Islamic extremism" starts and ends with Pakistan. As people On BRF have pointed out in years gone by - teh recent fathers of Islamism included the Indian Maududi and the Egyptian Syed Qutb. Pakistan was only an extension of Maududi and the actual voters who voted for Pakistan by and large stayed behind in India.

As Islamic extremism sourced from the Western sponsored state of Pakistan winds down, we will still be left handling the original, de novo Islamists who do not take inspiration from Pakistan but from Islamic literalism and the original Islamic ideologues. A blinkered howling "Pakistaaaan!!" "Kiyaniiiiiii!" "Pashaaaa"

would be a serious error of if we were dealing with de novo Islamists from the original pool. Pakistan could well a "supporting actor" in Islamic extremism.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jul 2011 08:55

shiv, Let its get back to topic.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jul 2011 09:07

archan wrote:From what I saw in TV news: they questioned a certain "bum man" who is an expert bomb maker and is serving time in an Indian jail for 1993 blasts.

Archan do you recall which jail (which city) this man happens to be in? Cellphones and drugs and concubines in jail are reported even in Bangalore jails and Tihar. I suppose Mumbai jails would be made of the same stuff?

There was a news item (maybe posted on this thread) about how netas are not bringing in the necessary police reforms. Perhaps I am being naive and simplistic - but if netas are opposed to police reform it could mean that lack of reform and the consequent ineffectiveness and corruption among police help our netas.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jul 2011 09:11

The way the police go about interviewing existing prisoners after a fresh attack tells me two stories

1. Keeping those prisoners seems to help get fresh insights

2. Maybe this is why people on death row are kept pending for years and years? As long as an IC 814 or similar releases is not repeated, could there be some benefit in keeping these guys alive?

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 18 Jul 2011 09:23

I agree with Ramana, lets get back to the topic, particularly about how the investigation may or may not be progressing.
I am very worried about low level radiological waste from isotopes used for medical treatment. Even if something that had a very short half-life would still be a major psychological and economic blow to India if/when it is used.

One of the reasons the US hasn't been attacked since 9/11/2001 is that by drone attacks, the US has killed thousands of Pakis through drone attacks. This is something worth considering as opposed to all out war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_atta ... ted_States

negi · Post by **negi** » 18 Jul 2011 09:48

Like any other bomb attack the Gobermund's reaction is hillarious i.e. as a knee jerk reaction round up a handful of folks who have jihadi connections (mind you these guys could have been rounded up even before the incident it's just that junta has to be showed that gobermund is working) and yet even after say a year or so of the attack no progress would be made when it comes to apprehending the real culprits.

Following wiki excerpt shows what kind of mofos run the system in our country. So long as we have bloody chankians running the show and letting Gilanis, Zakir Naiks and other jihadis run amock in country there will be more blasts in India in years to come. In any other country PFI would have been banned and it's members would have been dealt with in an appropriate manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_hand_ ... _in_Kerala

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 18 Jul 2011 09:56

shiv wrote:
archan wrote:From what I saw in TV news: they questioned a certain "bum man" who is an expert bomb maker and is serving time in an Indian jail for 1993 blasts.
Archan do you recall which jail (which city) this man happens to be in? Cellphones and drugs and concubines in jail are reported even in Bangalore jails and Tihar. I suppose Mumbai jails would be made of the same stuff?

There was a news item (maybe posted on this thread) about how netas are not bringing in the necessary police reforms. Perhaps I am being naive and simplistic - but if netas are opposed to police reform it could mean that lack of reform and the consequent ineffectiveness and corruption among police help our netas.

The reforms will remove political patronage and mutual benefit among the affected parties. Cops will become more or less directly responsible due to public scrutiny and vote booth rigging etc will probably become a highest bidder affair!!

That will reduce their political powers of transfer and punishment, curtail influence and also move the hafta solely into the hands of the cops without leaving a share for the neta.

One tribe is as venal as the other.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jul 2011 10:15

chetak wrote:
shiv wrote: There was a news item (maybe posted on this thread) about how netas are not bringing in the necessary police reforms. Perhaps I am being naive and simplistic - but if netas are opposed to police reform it could mean that lack of reform and the consequent ineffectiveness and corruption among police help our netas.
The reforms will remove political patronage and mutual benefit among the affected parties. Cops will become more or less directly responsible due to public scrutiny and vote booth rigging etc will probably become a highest bidder affair!!

That will reduce their political powers of transfer and punishment, curtail influence and also move the hafta solely into the hands of the cops without leaving a share for the neta.

One tribe is as venal as the other.

Thanks. You have summed up the reasons why terrorism, scams and extortion will continue with no near term hope of a solution. It also offers and opening for Pakistani based groups to cooperate with Indians

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 18 Jul 2011 10:15

A blog article on the serial blasts on July 13th.

http://magadhstrategy.in/?p=44

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 18 Jul 2011 10:25

From B. Raman

ZHAVERI BAZAAR FIRST:AN OPEN LETTER TO SHRI PRITHVIRAJ CHAVAN, CM OF MAHARASHTRA
Sir,

Permit me to compliment you on your interview to Ms.Barkha Dutt, Group Editor, ND TV, telecast on July 15,2011, on the terrorist attacks in Mumbai on July 13. Like me, thousands of viewers of the interview would have been impressed by the frankness and clarity with which you spoke and by your determination to see that the right lessons are drawn and implemented to prevent a repeat of similar attacks.

2.After the Mumbai blasts of 26/11, I wrote as follows on the London blasts of July 2005: “ 243 posts of Counter-Terrorism Security Advisers have been created since July 2005 and it has been reported that each important police station in London has at least two advisers attached to it. The London Police have established a programme called “London First” in which the Police and the private sector co-operate closely to ensure better security in London. The principle underlying it is that it is the joint responsibility of every one in London to ensure its security from terrorist attacks. Let us have our own Delhi First, Mumbai First, Chennai First, Kolkata First, Bangalore First and Hyderabad First partnerships to ensure that November 26 will not be repeated again.”

3. Before the London blasts, the conventional wisdom was that an effective way of dealing with terrorism was through a good beat system. Our success in dealing with Khalistani terrorism in Punjab was due to the commendable role of the Punjab Police, ably headed by Shri K.P.S.Gill, the then Directror-General of the Punjab Police. He believed that the police should be the weapon of first resort against terrorism. He made it clear to his Station House Officers that he would hold them responsible for the successful prevention and investigation of terrorism.

4. On August 17,2006,, Mr.Gill had an interaction with a group of retired police officers living in Chennai. I happened to be present. He expressed his disquiet over the mushrooming of specialised counter-terrorism organisations which could create a wrong impression in the minds of the police officers that counter-terrorism is not their primary responsibility. A note recorded by me on the interaction is available at http://www.southasiaanalysis.org/%5Cpap ... r1919.html

5. After the London blasts of July 2005, there has been fresh thinking on the role of the police. While its role is still considered important and primary and there is still emphasis on the need for revamping the beat system, it is now admitted that the police alone will not be able to deal effectively with modern terrorism sponsored by another state and with international links unless it has the benefit of expertise from specialists and assistance from specialised units. Moreover, the security forces alone will not be able to deal with terrorism unless they receive the co-operation of the general public and the private sector, which is increasingly concerned over the spread of terrorism to urban centres of economic power. It was to meet these additional requirements that the London Police created the posts of Counter-Terrorism Security Advisers attached to police stations in vulnerable areas.

6. I was given to understand that a scheme for ensuring better security for Mumbai through the co-operation of the police and the private sector was started after 26/11, but I do not know how well it has been working. A special task force on counter-terrorism set up by the Federation of Indian Chambers of Commerce and Industry (FICCI) of New Delhi---of which Shri Ved Marwah, former Commissioner of Police, Delhi, Shri A.K.Doval, former Director, Intelligence Bureau, Lt.Gen.Satish Nambiar, who was a member of the high-power panel on terrorism set up by Mr. Kofi Annan, the then UN Secretary-General, and I were amongst the members--- came out with a comprehensive set of recommendations in November 2009, which were presented to Shri P.Chidambaram, the Home Minister. One of the objectives of this Task Force was to examine how to prevent another 26/11 and better ensure the security of the metro cities.

7. The serial blasts of July 13,2011, in three sensitive areas of Mumbai would indicate that despite the measures taken by the Government after 26/11 to strengthen the security of Mumbai on its own as well as on the recommendations of others such as the Task Force set up by the FICCI, the terrorists continue to locate loopholes in the security structure of Mumbai and take advantage of them to carry out terrorist attacks.

8.The 13/7 attacks show that either the pre-26/11 cells of terrorist organisations, which had remained dormant, had been re-activated or new organisations or groups have come up with their own cells without being detected by the Intelligence Agencies and the State Police. We are not yet in a position to provide effective security to the people of Mumbai who have been attacked five times ---in 1993, 2003,2006,2008 and 2011. The people living or working in the Zhaveri Bazaar area, an important jewellery and diamond business area, have been targeted thrice---in 1993, 2003 and 2011.

9. None of the intelligence collection and physical security measures taken by us after every major terrorist strike in Mumbai since 1993 has been able to provide effective security to the people of Mumbai in general and of Zhaveri Bazaar in particular. Every successful terrorist strike speaks of loopholes in the intelligence and security cover provided to Mumbai. Otherwise, the terrorists would not have succeeded.

10. Unless we are able to identify and plug these loopholes after a comprehensive enquiry, the terrorists will continue to take advantage of them. There is a need for a comprehensive look at the intelligence and security cover provided to Mumbai in general and to some of its highly vulnerable areas such as Zhaveri Bazaar in particular. We will be badly letting down the people of the Zhaveri Bazaar area if we let them be targeted for a fourth time by the terrorists.

11. It is important to undertake urgently a vulnerability assessment of Mumbai and its sensitive areas in order to provide a scheme for a vulnerability-specific intelligent-cum-security cover. Let us make Zhaveri Bazaar the epi-centre of our counter-terrorism efforts. Let us work out, in co-operation with the public and the private business sector, a Mumbai First and Zhaveri Bazaar First intelligence-cum-security cover and implement it vigorously.

12. The plan should look at the adequacy of the existing police stations for a counter-terrorism role, the effectiveness of the existing beat and patrolling systems, the adequacy of the existing communication network, the need for counter-terrorism expertise to assist the police, the role of the public and the private sector and other related subjects.

13. We should start this exercise today. Tomorrow may be late.

With warm regards,

Yours sincerely,
B.Raman, Chennai.17-7-11
Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jul 2011 10:30

There is another equal equal Pakistani connection with terror in India that is not usually mentioned

It's like this:

Imagine a terrorist attack in Pakistan. Pakistanis blame the US, India or Israel. By shifting the blame to one or more imaginary agencies, the role of the Pakistan army in nurturing and arming terrorists is sidelined and the topic does not come up at all. It will never be addressed.

After a terrorist attack in India, Indians blame Pakistan or Hindu terrorists. By shifting the blame to external agencies the role of the Indian government in nurturing and arming terrorists by vote bank politics and political-police corruption is sidelined and the topic does not come up at all. It will never be addressed.

Both India and Pakistan suffer terrorism that is directly sparked by a nexus between government and criminals and allows one country to meddle in the other via criminals. The eargerness with which Pakistan and Hindu terrorists are blamed (after the Mumbai blasts) suggests to me that each group gains some political mileage by blaming a specific group. That political mileage is more important than instituting the actions necessary to stop the terror. Those actions would interfere with the vote banks and the planks on which the politicians stand.

IndiaPakistan are equalequal only. No wonder the two governments are desperate to talk. Imagine the cosiest situation for both governments. If India could get Pakistan to not interfere in India (and maybe vice versa) then there would be no need for reform no need for anything to change and the internal corruption, extortion and goondagiri could continue minus the acts of terror which cause so much inconvenience to the political system.

Vril · Post by **Vril** » 18 Jul 2011 14:51

BJP just concluded their press conference on Dig Singh and these are the points surmised

1. Why does DigSingh need to speak up whenever INC is under immense pressure for corruption and terrorism investigation.
2. He speaks his masters voice which is the 2G and thus directly blaming them for his utterances
3.Communalising terrorism only helps pakistan and isi.why is he doing so?

They also said we welcome that he speaks so much and thus exposes INC more and more.

almost every point raised in the forum was said verbatim.nice

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 18 Jul 2011 15:19

One of the best reports about the explosive devices that were used:

http://m.rediff.com/news/report/mumbai- ... 110718.htm

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 18 Jul 2011 15:35

How did they figure out the angle at which the bombs was placed?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 18 Jul 2011 16:09

krishnan wrote:How did they figure out the angle at which the bombs was placed?

By studying the patterns caused by the explosion? By considering the areas in which the bomb caused the maximum damage?

rajkumar · Post by **rajkumar** » 18 Jul 2011 16:36

krishnan wrote:How did they figure out the angle at which the bombs was placed?

By looking at the blast pattern. When a explosive device explodes the gases travel in a specific direction. Sometimes objects in the way 'direct' the way they travel. Hence by looking at the blast field you can tell where the bomb was placed/at what heights etc.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 18 Jul 2011 16:38

the source is a former director of forensics, so am wondering if this information is officially sanctioned? leaked? or hypothetical conjecture?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 18 Jul 2011 19:07

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 241979.ece

Maharashtra ATS, probing the July 13 serial blasts, is taking the assistance of a foreign firm to enhance quality of the CCTV footages recorded at the three locations, a senior police official said.

The volume of these footages, which are playing a crucial role in helping investigators trace the sequence of events that led to the blasts, is huge and many of the images are not clear.

“There was a need to enhance the images. We are taking help of technical experts of a foreign-based firm for this job,” a police official said.

archan · Post by **archan** » 18 Jul 2011 19:16

shiv wrote:
archan wrote:From what I saw in TV news: they questioned a certain "bum man" who is an expert bomb maker and is serving time in an Indian jail for 1993 blasts.
Archan do you recall which jail (which city) this man happens to be in? Cellphones and drugs and concubines in jail are reported even in Bangalore jails and Tihar. I suppose Mumbai jails would be made of the same stuff?

There was a news item (maybe posted on this thread) about how netas are not bringing in the necessary police reforms. Perhaps I am being naive and simplistic - but if netas are opposed to police reform it could mean that lack of reform and the consequent ineffectiveness and corruption among police help our netas.

Found it. Ajmer.
Link 1
Link 2

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Jul 2011 19:25

krishnan wrote:How did they figure out the angle at which the bombs was placed?

The blast from a bomb spreads out in a sphere with the bomb at the center just like light from a bulb spreads in a sphere with the bulb at the center. If there is something that is obstructing the light from the bulb there will be a shadow where no light will fall. In a bomb blast there will be a "shadow area" where there is no bomb damage corresponding to any obstruction that stops the blast from going in a particular direction.

Diwali rockets are like bombs in which the explosion of the material in the rocket is prevented from going upwards or to the sides by a thick plug on top and thick sides. The bottom is open so the gases are directed downwards. That "directed explosion" causes the rocket to move up. Same thing in a gun - which is a "directed explosion"

There is a famous photograph on the net of a set of stone steps in Hiroshima which have been singed by the nuclear explosion except for the shadow of a human who served as an obstruction throwing that shadow where the steps are not burned. But the human was totally vaporized, leaving no trace.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 18 Jul 2011 19:32

X-Posting from Vietnam - News & Discussions Thread

Published on Jul 15, 2011
Vietnam condemns bomb blasts in India: Voice of Vietnam

Vietnam strongly condemns the bomb blasts in Mumbai, India, on July 13, a spokeswoman from the Vietnamese Foreign Ministry said.

Spokeswoman Nguyen Phuong Nga made the statement on July 14 while answering reporters’ question on Vietnam’s reaction to bomb explosions in Mumbai.

“Vietnam strongly condemns the bomb blasts in India’s Mumbai city on July 13 that left dozens of people dead and hundreds of others injured,” she said.

“We would like to convey our regards and deepest sympathy to the Indian state, government, people and families of the victims.”