Cultural Protectionism - Global & Indian Trends

[brihaspati]

part 5.

Process of saturation

• One of the first signs of a collective dissatisfaction with status quo and an underlying saturation of the multiple forgeries available to the population is a demand for social activism from within pre-existing ideologies and institutions. This typically comes in the form of accusations of sterility, ineffectivity, hypocrisy against existing institutions of identity construction. Wallis (1976:41, 44) suggests that the extensive erosion of belief came from the cultural conformity of the church and its consequent ethical paralysis and hypocrisy. Quebedeaux (1974) represents the "young evangelicals" as reacting against the hypocrisy of evangelical and fundamentalist churches which vocally condemn racism but worship in lily-white churches and avoid collective socio-political action (pp. 99, 115-117). However as noted by him, collective social action could become the excuse for forgetting the individual and the concrete and a further cover for not doing anything tangible. (p. 94; see also Moberg, 1977:208, and Lewis, 1967:272). Similarly Hunter et al., (1985) speak of "compassion fatigue" and Illich (1971) criticizes volunteers on short-term projects to Latin America only some of whom admitted their purpose was an expense paid vacation but like the non-admitters contributed to the damage left behind and proudly exulted at home over their alleged "summer sacrifices."

• This actually means acknowledgment on the part of the individual that his/her collection of forgeries is saturated and that existing spectrum of values no longer offer significant gains or satisfactions because even exchanging between complicity/conformity and social activism does not essentially change the detachment and non-involvement. What for Wallis( 1979) is a relacement of grace with idolatry in the radical Christians strong reaction against “cheap grace” - by overemphasizing simple lifestyle, “public protests that give them pride, identity with the poor that capitalizes on their suffering, the nonviolence principle with its manipulative will to power, a radical prophetic identity resting upon prooftexting on better than that of fundamentalists, and a tendency to protest oppression and persecution by imperialists but not by communists..” is actually therefore a forgery of the older forgery aginst which the radical is reacting. H Richard Niebuhr( Skillen, 1986:30) likewise criticized his brother Reinhold's liberalism as "a first-aid to hypocrisy. It is the exaltation of good will, moral idealism. It worships the God whose qualities are 'the human qualities to the nth degree.' "

• Believing that a politician who says "the right things" thereby demonstrates proper faith has made many religious audiences the tool of clever leaders (see Pierard, 1984). In this and other ways Christians may be hypocrites because of compartmentalization, living as if religion is separate from other areas of life (Dunn et al., 1981:117).

• One kind of dying religion is decadent by reason of hypocrisy; its representatives "claim the title of religion but ignore prayer, prophecy or service" (Fox, 1971:416). Their negligence is evident in silence and inaction in the face of evil, injustice, and the worship of such false gods as the golden calf of the hallowed economic motive( p. 417).

• Similarly, fundamentalists who care for tangible human needs only as bait for evangelism are criticized as opportunists and manipulators. Their competitors who attempt social reform without concern for immediate needs and long-term spiritual well-being of individuals also are guilty of a lop-sided ministry (see Moberg, 1985:97-116).

• Basic theological issues influence operational definitions. To those who believe salvation relates only to life in this world, other-worldly conversionists appear hypocritical for giving first priority to eternal life and presumably keeping the downtrodden complacent with the opiate of "pie in the sky by and by." The extent to which the Bible is accepted as normative and clashes between such values as love and justice on complex pragmatic issues make it easy for Christians to disagree, charge one another with hypocrisy, and hold positions at variance with official declarations of their denomination (sHero, 1970).

• resources of personnel, time, and finances are scarce forcing prioiritizing. The contrast between "social activists" and "evangelicals" is one of different priorities," not over whether we should become involved in society, but over where and how we should become involved" (Christenson, 1974:21-23). Much alleged hypocrisy comes from the pragmatic need to be selective, letting many options pass in order to work on a few. But is it not hypocritical to draw up a narrow list of social issues and proclaim that it alone is the valid set of Christian concerns?

• Among evangelical Christians there is enormous disagreement about the specific political direction demanded by the Bible. The "vast differences increasingly spawn vicious name-calling and distorted attacks. . . . Conservatives denounce radicals for overemphasizing economic justice and neglecting religious and political freedom. Radicals charge that conservatives neglect justice and exaggerate the importance of freedom. Furthermore, both accuse each other of bad faith" (Sider, 1986:1). To a significant degree, the differences among Christians are a product of coexisting, ambivalent, and paradoxical religious values flowing from diverse Hermeneutical and exegetical approaches to the Bible, but disagreements over matters of fact, their implications for policy, and priorities for action are also involved. The struggles get so discouraging that many Christians throw up their hands in a do-nothing posture. No matter what they do, some fellow Christians criticize them of being erroneous, hypocritical, self-seeking opportunists (see Moberg, 1985)

Paralysis of choice and action

• It is this paralysis of choice and action, where both liberal and conservative get equally criticized, literalists and interpretationists equally lambasted, that indicates that none of the available forgeries, even the antagonistic ones have any differential “value” to break the impasse. This is the point when all attempted and constructed forgeries have reached their equal exchange price and there is nothing within the collection of forgeries and the self, that allows the individual to reject one in favour of the other or prefer one over all the rest. In such situations we find frequent and rather easy reversals of positions, a Marxist becoming a devout Catholic, or a Catholic favouring a “liberal theological” position that sees no wrong in violent revolutions to overturn unjust regimes or even collaborating with Marxists to do the same.

• Thus even if resignations or removal from office of politicians on public revelation of say sexual deviations from supposed moral norms, may appear to be a proof of continued supremacy of sexual moral norms in the society, in reality it actually indicates something quite different.

• Where such deviations appear to have taken on wider social acceptance under the cover of consensual adult interactions and so-called “adult-games/alternative lifestyles” or even euphemisms as “exotic dances” (another peculiar accommodation of multiple forgeries manifested in obvious linguistic discomfort), it is paradoxical that the same is not applied as a value standard to politicians in public life or power. Actually the collective perception does not see such deviations as unacceptable, but as exchangeable with pre-existing opposing values that saw such deviation as a crime.

• When such an exchange possibility comes up between two equally powerful or powerless – ordinary “common” individuals, they have nothing to offer each other as additional compensatory value or extractable/exploitable profits. But between a politician in power and others who are not, the availability of deviation critical values existing side by side with accepting ones offer the possibility of extracting a profit by forcing the deviant to negotiate a honourable exit in exchange for relinquishing power.

Tradeability of values

• Just before the Islamic invasions from 8th to 13th century, there is indication that the merchants and mercantile activity based on finance capital increased - with increasing influence on the kings and regimes. The kings and merchants seem to have also allowed and protected the growth of Islamic colonies/institutions in Indian kingdoms. Important cities and university townships which are later slated for genocide appearto have had significant growth of Islmic residents in the period immediate before attck or destruction. The cases of merchants of Gujarat who participated in the double-faced activities of a Muslim merchant establishing a mosque, and the rich urban Buddhist merchants [narrated to be living it up with slaves etc] of Nirun in Sindh who were the first to welcome Qasim and provision him - shows that growth of mercantile mentality always uncannily comes with concerns about continued profits from foreign trade. Thus such a class will be ready to compromise with foreign powers and interests - as for them the hope will be that by doing so they can maintain their profits.

• This means that since the security and even basic economic interests of their birth culture and country become exchangeable commodities with a monetary price, [everything has a price right?], a stage is reached where everything becomes a tradeable asset - self, country, family, wife, daughters, children, birth society and culture, land and people. In fact the first signs of the mercantile mentality - among other things - appear in counting heads against costs, where we speak of oh only 2000 people lost their lives, but compared to that we had 8.7% growth - just think if we went to war we might have lost 20,000 people dead and been subjected to -1.2% growth for the next 50 years. Or talk of the "smallness" of the proportion of human losses, or insignificance of trauma of a rape or enslavement which can always be compensated by some monetary price.

• Actually the mercantile mentality once firmly rooted becomes the shield behind which the man hides - his absolute dehumanization into an automaton which only responds to the fetish of monetary prices. The person no longer needs to be human, with emotions, feelings, attachments, loyalties or commitments - all such responsibilities and difficult value choices can be passed on to money and prices.

• Once this stage is reached, as is obviously being reached with J&K - there is no escape from this mentality. It is the ultimate escape from humanity, from having to make human choices, based on human ideas and ideologies and values. We can see this absolute dehumanization when people innocently ask as to why is it wrong to give it all up on a platter when in return we can avoid war and make profits - they have already lost the ability to see their own dehumanization.

From paralysis to discontent

• Since ideals usually exceed performance, we can expect discrepancy to be negatively correlated with the strength and length of commitment, yet, paradoxically, higher aspirations and ideals may increase the subjectively perceived discrepancies, so people may feel more "hypocritical" as they mature spiritually.

• Parsons( 1952:296) noted a "latent reservoir of legitimation possibilities" because norms and mores are never completely reflected in reality. Babbie (1973:245) suggests that either personal or systemic discontent with the established order" may serve as a ready-made source of legitimacy for some other form of authority."New religions arising out of the discontent are closely related to Glock's deprivation theory. Yet once established, a new religion itself tends to become "hypocritical" as recruitment brings more people and leadership copes with organizational demands; it in turn becomes a source of sect members elsewhere (Moberg, 1985:118-122; O'Dea and Aviad, 1983:56-64). Under Soviet Marxism "Communists must be confessing atheists" (van den Bercken, 1985:274), but a-atheism, a form of secularization, has become fairly common. Like other sectarian doctrines," as soon as [Marxism] is accorded a ruling position, it becomes structurally interwoven with the power apparatus and each strengthens the other" (p. 270).

Socio-Psychological Perspectives

• Ulterior motives are especially hard to distinguish from others; we are more moral in words than in deeds (Scott, 1971:117, 162). Everyone "marshalls more 'good' reasons for his sins than he does for his virtues!"( Rushdoony, 1986:2). Johnson and Cornell ( 1972:36, 144- 146) found that alleged reasons for giving to church and philanthropy deviated from genuinely decisive motivations and saw compartmentalization, [workaday secular life in opposition to the sphere of the church rather than recognizing mutual interaction in scriptural perspective]. Enticements of other good things also deflected giving. Inbody (1984) cautions fellow liberals to swallow their false pride flowing from anxiety, die to insecurity and self-delusions, and repent as sinners needing forgiveness in order to transcend their situation and live up to their ideals: Our liberal assumption and assurance that we can and will live up to our ideals if we try hard enough betrays how deep self-delusion is within liberal culture. . . . The self-certainty and assumed superiority of modern liberal culture and its consequences concern me as much as our hope that the fundamentalists will become as "open-minded" and "understanding" as we are. ... to set the issue as "we" versus" they" betrays a lack of understanding of the present world-situation (pp. 88-89).

Forgery as defence mechanism

• Duncombe's( 1969:98) observation that hypocritical actions often are defence mechanisms concealing feelings, thoughts, and behaviour that are inconsistent with one's idealizations and dishonestly attempting to obscure them: [A person] will rarely tell others about his weaknesses or misdeeds even if they weigh heavily upon him. The searing memory of failures . .. remains tightly locked within. Regretted in stances of dishonesty and immorality prey upon his mind but are never discussed. . . . The same is true of what he thinks about himself. . . . Where he sees himself inferior to those he admires or envies, he may even pretend superiority in order to ease the pain it causes him. In short, the more strongly he doubts his own worth as a human, the more vigorously he will deny it before the world. Such an attempt "to become what you are not" inevitably leads to "pretense" and "hypocrisy" (p. 98).

social ethics

• Applying the concept in social ethics to tensions between private moralists and social reformers reflects anomalies in a society that promises personal freedom and concern for individual welfare, on the one hand, and social welfare for the common good on the other (Conover, 1967:33). An inevitable "hypocrisy" thus stems from society's moral code as its regulative pressures impinge upon civil liberties. The vocabulary of morality is evident in the "hypocrisy" of student protests against the "hypocrisy" of conformity to established societal customs; the idealized values of that condemned society are the basis for their judgments. Similarly, while engaging in good deeds like the Peace Corps less out of altruism than for the self-knowledge and experience such service brings, youths have brought charges of "hypocrisy" against teachers, physicians, clergy, and statesmen for their presumed motives of fulfilling private needs, not selfless service (Conover, 1967:23-25, 112-113). People with the highest levels of intelligence and awareness are the most vulnerable to inhumanities and hypocrisies of their society or subculture. They are the most ashamed of their nation's inconsistencies between ideals and reality. They also are "the least ready to make the compromises necessary for adjustment. They have a selectivity that does not allow them to accept [these faults] passively" (Lynd, 1958:233).

• Greeley (1972:233) suggests that American society makes possible more hypocrisy than most other countries. Because it is easier to be religious, there is more religious mediocrity and many more apathetic members with little or no interest in important religious issues. Society as "a network of lies and deception" (Alexander, 1975:96; see Anderson, 1986:335, and Goleman, 1985), although various forms of deception are ubiquitous" lubricants "of social life, for a basic trust, truthfulness, and sincerity essential to social order is the criterion for identifying them (Lewis and Weigert, 1985).

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This was using primarily the example of Christianity in the western experience as the cultural framework that that could be heading towards "elimination of indigenous" threat. But I think the model applies to India too - and "Hinduism".

[RajeshA]

Proposal for a Law for Restricting of Foreign Funding for Religious Purposes in India.

Practice/Implementation and Propagation of Ideas including in the case of religion, I believe, is a fundamental right. However this right can be abused.

The problem is when a proselytizing ideology demands and requires that a people breaks away with their past, scorns their old deities, which are not even allowed to be studied as their mythology and heritage.

This is because a foreign entity has no sympathy for local culture and history - they just want more ideological clones for their Republic. As such it is important that the influence of foreign entities be decreased in matters of faith in India.

It impinges not a bit on the right of an individual to practice and propagate his religion in India - he just cannot use foreign money for practicing or propagating it!

So here are some suggestions on curtailing foreign religious influence based on money!

1) No foreign funding of religious institutions in India. See above!

2) Any Indian who is found to be acting as a conduit for funding of religious groups and institutions in India originating from foreign sources should be held liable for punishment, like confiscation of property or a jail term.

3) Another avenue the foreign proselytizers could use is the media. The rule should be that if a certain channel, time spot, or ad space is being used, packaged within a broader media offering targeted at India, which an individual in India would avail of for purposes of news, information and entertainment, then that channel, time spot or ad space cannot be used for religious purposes if the funding is from outside India.

If the media group is headquartered in India which makes the media offering, then it is not allowed to offer foreign sources the service of buying the use of a broadcasting channel, time slot on a channel, or ad space if it is for the purpose of religious messages.

This should be valid for broadcasting media, print media as well as internet infotainment portals. If say some satellite channels are being broadcasted into India, then the provider should ensure that these do not have religious programming paid from outside India, or the reception in India, say through a channel codec does not allow such programming to be received. Otherwise India can jam the signal if necessary. If the religious programming is paid for by some party in India, then it should be allowed.

Only that print media would be allowed to be sold in India, which does not carry any religious messaging paid for by some non-Indian source. This is true for India Media as well as foreign media.

An Internet infotainment portal should ensure through GeoIP Mapping, that if a request is coming from India, then no religious messaging paid for by some foreign source is seen in by the user, especially not from any links from the Front Page. If it is paid for by some party from India, it should be allowed.

Same rule applies for DVDs sold in India, whose main content is something other than religion. It should not contain ads for religious purposes paid for by non-Indian sources.

As far as books, etc. are concerned, there foreigners can sell books in India, as long as they don't incite violence or disrupt social harmony. Books follow a pull model, and it is up to the customer, whether he wants to buy the book or not.

As far as religious material that is handed over to passersby on the streets is concerned, that would be allowed only if it is printed in India, and paid for by an Indian religious group.

[Manish_Sharma]

Another thing to think about is - to protect Indic culture, how much %age of energy is devoted to these two issues :

A. Exposing, blaming, analyzing proselytization
B. Spreading knowledge and practices of Indic culture amongst people Seeing the above, I have 2 choices

1. Froth and fume quoting stanzas from "Breaking India"
or
2. Work at spreading Indic culture using electronic media, magazines, comics, community events etc.

Both are needed, in fact not much energy is spent on [A], while most energy is going in (b)
Swami Laxmananda killed because he was killed by nexus of EJ and Maoists because (A) is neglected or whosoever works on (A) is silenced, shouted down.

The fact the "Breaking India" is its only kind of book shows that not much energy has been spent in [A].

Why condemn somebody if they are bringing out the fact that Leela Samson is christnising "Bharat-natyam"?

http://thammayya.wordpress.com/2010/03/ ... -malhotra/

How church destroyed Swami Nithyananda! – Rajiv Malhotra

When the sex scandal of Swami Nithyananda suddenly erupted on March 2, 2010, I was already in Delhi as part of a group to go to Kumbh Mela. I was also finalizing my new book which deals specifically with Tamil Nadu religious politics, and in particular with the role of various nexuses based overseas. So I decided to jump into the eye of the storm of this scandal in order to investigate whether similar nexuses were at work in this case. Naturally, at one level I have seen this scandal through the framework of a civilization encounter in which Vedic culture is pitted against the Dravidian divisiveness that is being backed by Christian evangelism. At another level, I found that the sensationalized media reports were too one-sided, and none of them had a single statement to report from the swami himself. Furthermore, there was chaos and mismanagement of the crisis from Swami Nithyananda’s inner circle. In hindsight, things might have turned out differently had they managed more sensibly and faster – which I will elaborate later in this article. Given this, another interest of mine has been to extrapolate important lessons from this episode for other Hindu organizations, which I predict will face similar scandals as and when their weaknesses become understood by those opposed to them. This article highlights my findings at these multiple levels and issues.

During this 2-week investigative period, I have been loyal to my pledge to give Swami Nithyananda’s organization the benefit of doubt and to report their side of the story. Besides wanting to balance out the one-sided media depictions, I wanted access to the ashram’s core group for my own research on the broader subject of civilization encounters. I respect the sensitivities of that organization consisting of many decent and dedicated devotees who have sacrificed a great deal and stand to lose a lot.

But I have concluded that the situation is now beyond repair for Swami Nithyananda and that his continued involvement can only damage the broader interests of dharma as well as jeopardize the ashramites. Along with two other sympathizers who are not ashramites, I have personally recommended to Swami Nithyananda that the best course at this stage would be for him to resign completely from his organization. He should turn it over to a small team of senior Hindu mahatmas, so that the assets can be used in the best interests of dharma. Further, under the guidance of these mahatmas he must live a quiet life as a sadhu devoid of any institutional responsibilities. Because the head of any organization must accept responsibility that “the buck stops here,” only such a move can salvage the organization and the reputation of dharma at large. Over several years, this resignation would hopefully reduce the massive pressure that has built up against him personally, and enable him to live peacefully as a sadhu. It is up to him to accept or reject this advice. The basis for this conclusion becomes clearer once the reader has gone through the rest of this article.

I want to begin by examining some principles about the relationships between siddhis (extraordinary yogic powers), morality, Tantra and sex. This will provide the framework in which to interpret what has happened. Then I will turn to my initial interest in pursuing the challenges facing Hinduism in south India from a variety of forces.

Siddhis (Extraordinary Yogic Powers) and Morality

A few days ago, I had the honor of having a two-hour private conversation with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar at his ashram in Rishikesh. I introduced myself as an independent researcher who is writing a series of books on Indian civilization in the context of the global challenges and opportunities. One of my volumes will be specifically on the major global gurus since the 1960s – including Krishnamurti, Swami Muktananda, Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Pabhupada, among others – as well as living global gurus such as Sri Sri himself. I have been investigating what happened to such gurus, in terms of the shifts in their Western followers over time, their scandals, their Indian followers and critics, and also how each guru negotiated his/her position sandwiched between Indian orthodoxy on one side and Western modernity on the other. The relevance of this in the context of Swami Nithyananda will become clear very soon.

The first provocative question I asked Sri Sri concerned the nature of yogic powers: What is the relationship between siddhis and morality? If siddhis are a scientific phenomena dealing with powers that can be harnessed by all humans then one must bear in mind that science deals with truths that are morally neutral. If Einstein was declared to have lived an immoral life it would not invalidate his scientific theories. A person who designs aircrafts or any other complex technological systems may or may not be moral in order to be effective in his technical work. In other words, rtam (the patterns of the cosmos) which we discover and call science, functions independently of human morality. This is why a scientific principle can be used either morally or immorally, because it is independent of morality. There are moral persons who lack any siddhis or even ordinary scientific competence. Conversely, there are great siddhas (like Ravana) who lack morality. Sri Sri’s pranayama techniques would also produce results for an immoral person.

Sri Sri seemed impressed by this question, and agreed with my overall position on the independence between siddhis and morality. But he pointed out that the moral dimension, while not determining the siddhis, was also important because it led to receiving the grace of the divine. I agree with him.

So there are two separate phenomena involved: (i) spiritual technologies that are objective and that allow anyone to harness spiritual energies, and (ii) morality which is important in itself, not for attaining siddhis, but in order to have a positive relationship with the divine. Either one can be developed without the other; however, the dharma tradition encourages us to cultivate both. The reason that meditation systems prescribe things like vegetarian diet, ahimsa, etc. is because an inappropriate lifestyle interferes with the mental tranquility required to advance. This lifestyle change can be appreciated regardless of whether one believes in a personal God. This absence of a personal God is clear in Buddhist meditation. Different Hindu systems place different levels of emphasis upon a personal God for the yoga to function. This is why many secular and scientifically minded persons are also drawn towards meditation techniques. In other words, something cannot be a science if it depends upon morality, because science is objective and stands independent of morality.

The relevance of this question is as follows: Many persons who have learned advanced meditation from Swami Nithyananda want to know if any moral breaches by him would invalidate the whole Hindu claim of achieving higher states of consciousness. When a far worse sex scandal against the legendry Swami Muktananda emerged in the 1990s, involving charges by a large number of his Western female disciples, the Western academy rashly condemned not only one man’s morality, but the whole legitimacy of the Indian tradition itself. In that series of debates (with Risa scholars like Sarah Caldwell, etc.), I took the same position then as I am taking now: that Muktananda’s capabilities in harnessing spiritual energies are separate and independent from whether or not he violated any code of morality.

Patanjali warns against getting lured by siddhis which appear along the way when one practices advanced meditation persistently. One is not supposed to indulge in them. This warning is found in various Hindu systems that deal with the body as a vehicle for spiritual evolution, because these energies are very powerful and can get out of control. Another point that is worth noting is that the techniques taught by Swami Nithyananda are not his original ones; he has made it clear repeatedly that they are from the Shiva Sutras which have a long history in our civilization. I feel that he does have the siddhi of being able to transmit these techniques very effectively to others. For instance, I have never before in my life been able to sit still and alert in meditation for the whole night, but he had a few hundred persons in a large hall achieving this. The point here is similar to saying that the mathematics and golf I have learned from someone is not invalidated when the teacher is found to be immoral.

Hence, the issue of his morality must be pursued separately and independently from whether his siddhis are genuine.

Is Tantra a Part of Hinduism?

The second question that I asked Sri Sri could not be completely dealt with in the time available for our meeting. I hope to pursue this some day with him and with various other acharyas for my own benefit. Its significance in the present scandal becomes clear soon. I asked whether the Shiva Sutras are valid, pointing out that among the 112 spiritual enlightenment techniques taught in them, about 6 deal with sexual contact between a male yogi and a female yogini. Kashmir Shaivism as well as the Tantra traditions have included exemplars that practiced these techniques. Recently, Osho tried to revive them and nowadays Deepak Chopra has brought some elements of these into his repertoire. Sunthar Vishvalingam, a US based scholar of Tantra and Kashmir Shaivism, is one of the voices who brings out the authenticity of these approaches in the tradition, despite the common rejections by society at large. The tradition considers itself not suitable for mainstream society and is meant only for a small subset of people.

Many popular Hindu rituals and symbols have emerged out of the Tantra traditions – such as Shiva lingam, etc. The Tantra and Vedic traditions were not separate until recent times. The Vedic-Tantric integration is found in Adi Shankara all the way to Jiva Goswami (the great integrator of Vaishnavism who took Ramanuja’s ideas further), and even more recently in the life of Sri Ramakrishna. The Bihar School of Yoga has Tantra practitioners, but they do it privately and not publicly.

I have an unpublished monograph that shows the history of this shift in Indian consciousness concerning Tantra. It was under British rule that certain Indian leaders (such as Ram Mohan Roy) started to condemn (as part of their “reform” of Hinduism) those aspects of Hinduism that bothered puritan Christian values. It must be noted that Christianity has had a very negative posture towards the human body starting with the Biblical episode of Origin Sin. This is why female priests (called “witches”) got demonized by the Church in its very official genocide of several million practitioners across Europe. This Church prosecution was called the Inquisition and was widespread for a few centuries. The use of shakti and anything concerning the body as a spiritual resource was considered not only immoral but also demonic, and was outlawed with draconian enforcement. The term “occult” was used to refer to a vast assortment of such practices and was heavily condemned by the Church as the work of the Devil.

This mentality entered India under the British. The Criminal Tribes Act of India was passed by the British in the late 1800s. It listed several dozen tribes that practiced such “evil” techniques, and they were officially persecuted into extinction. A middle-class “whitened” Hinduism evolved as the mark of being “civilized” on British terms. We could be proud of our identity, now that it was “cleansed” of “primitive” practices of our ancestors.

In this history of removing Tantra out of Hinduism, some people include Swami Vivekananda among those who undermined Tantra. I disagree with this charge. He was saying a separate set of things to his Western audiences than to Indians. In his Western lecture tours, he presented a Hinduism that Westerners could relate to and appreciate, but he did not ask Indians to shift their practice. It is unfortunate that after his death, the Ramakrishna Mission he started has diluted itself into a sort of pseudo-Christianity. Kali and other related Tantra deities, symbols and rituals that were dear to Ramakrishna himself, have become “hidden” for the “private” use by the monks, but are marginalized publicly and considered as an embarrassment. Their lead in this direction has spread across modern Hinduism to such an extent that Vedic Hinduism has become separated from Tantra, and Tantra is now widely condemned by many Hindu gurus. This is also a factor that worked against Swami Nithyananda’s reputation among orthodox Hindu leaders, for he uses Tantric techniques that arouse body energies, such as kundalini.

My own feeling is that Tantra is making a big comeback. First there was Western popularity of distorted versions of Tantra; but this is now being followed by more clinical experimentation by psychologists and others. The whole issue of latent human energies and potentials (both positive and dangerous) is a hot topic of serious scientific investigation. Hindus should reclaim this aspect of their own tradition rather than waiting for U-Turned (appropriated) versions to get re-exported back to India, packaged as “Made in USA” spiritual science. This requires an attitude of experimentation under the appropriate controls to prevent abuses and quackery.

I just returned from Kumbh Mela where I walked amidst several tens of thousands of naga sadhus who were completely naked. I did not consider them as either vulgar or primitive. The old guard of Hindu orthodoxy rejects Tantra at least in public, and yet lives in contradictions because they do respect the naga sadhus and also the various symbols and rituals that have their foundations in Tantra. The vacuum left by avoiding the subject of Tantra has created opportunities for the likes of Wendy Doniger to formulate distorted interpretations. I feel that Hindu spiritual practitioners as well as intellectuals must take control over Tantra as an intrinsic part of our tradition.

Sex and Morality

Against this backdrop, I will address the issue of Swami Nithyananda’s morality. Just to recap:

My first point above has been that the morality issue about Swami Nithyananda does not impact the effectiveness of the meditation techniques he has taught very successfully. Their efficacy is best evaluated by the tens of thousands of practitioners for themselves.
My second point was that there is nothing inherent about sex that is rejected by Hinduism across the board, although certain strains of Hinduism do reject sex seeing it as harmful to spirituality.
Here it must be noted that brahmacharya (involving sexual abstinence) is just one of the spiritual paths of Hinduism. The first half of my recent stay in Haridwar was as a guest of the Gayatri Pariwar, one of the greatest and largest Hindu movements, that does not advocate being brahmacharya. Its founder, its present head and its members at large, are householders and not brahmacharyas. But for Swami Nithyananda to claim moral authenticity under this system, he would have to pronounce himself as a householder and not a sannyasin. He has never done that, so we must examine his morality by some other criteria.

Another approach for him could have been to announce himself as an experimenter of Tantra for modern times, thereby making himself transparent of any such charges. This would place him in the same category as Osho. Many times in his public discourses and teachings, he has praised Osho as his greatest teacher and enlightened exemplar. He even said that many of his own teachings were derived from Osho. But he failed to publicly clarify whether he was practicing those techniques that involve sex. Privately, he explained to me in recent days that Shiva Sutras have two categories of techniques. Most of the sutras do not involve physical contact with another person and only use the four senses of sight, sound, taste and smell as pathways to spiritual experiences. Hence an individual practices these techniques entirely on his/her own. This path is what he has taught thus far to the public. The best pursuit of this path is as a brahamacharya according to him, and he has initiated many followers into it. But for a small number of persons, he feels that the 6 sutras involving sexual Tantra need to be tested and perfected for modern times, before they can be safely taught more widely. This he considers like any R & D done in a lab for developing a product.

My sense is that he did practice Tantra with a very small number of persons, and I believe that he even entered into written legal contracts with them to make sure that both parties were clear about the arrangement. The reason for this “Non-Disclosure Agreement” was to make sure that someone who willingly approaches him for Tantra does not later accuse him of physical contact. On March 9 (about a week ago), I did a specific video interview with him dealing with this issue very specifically. But this video was blocked by his ashram leaders even though he personally felt that it was a good idea to show it. I gave up arguing in favor of showing it, because his ashram management took a firm stand against it. I still feel that this was a blunder they made. Swami Nithyananda is very forthright and clear in that interview – I felt that it was the best interview of all the ones I did with him, but it was never made public.

I surmise that Rancitha, the Tamil actress in the scandalous videotape, was practicing Tantra with him. He taught her the self-control she had to achieve before any intimacy. I have tried to interview her in order to get her side of the story, but so far I have not succeeded in getting through to her. Based on third party reports from some persons who are in touch with her, and the media reports of her statements, her stance seems to be along the following lines: She took the sexual initiative with him on the occasion shown in the videotape, at a time when he was not fully alert. But this activity did not proceed to intercourse. It was terminated. She has also said that the videos being shown on TV are manipulated versions of what actually happened, because they exaggerate the situation. They do not show portions where he asked her to stop. Different clips from various videos seem to have been turned into a single video by editing. She has not filed any complaint against him. So in the worst case, this was consensual sex between adults, and that too backed by a formal written contract between the parties. Because she has refused to give any statement against Swami Nithyananda, she feels threatened by those who set her up and who did this sting. I hear that she has gone overseas to protect her safety from this mafia-like conspiracy. I have not been able to corroborate this thesis directly from her.

My concern about his morality is, therefore, not based on sex between consenting adults. Rather, my moral issue is about the lack of transparency before the public. He could have openly said that he wants to select a few yoginis to experiment Tantra under mutual consent. At worst this would have upset many followers and pushed them away. In response to my concern over his lack of transparency, he could offer the argument that this was a private activity between adults who are under no obligation to disclose it to the public. After all, people do not go about broadcasting their sexual lives. So long as this was under mutual consent, he might say, it cannot be an offense. And if it was done under the Tantra portions of the Shiva Sutra, it was also an act within the Hindu tradition despite the controversy surrounding Tantra today.

Having given this best case argument on his behalf, I must say that there could also be the alternative scenario, namely, that this was mere lust packaged as Tantric spirituality. David White, one of Wendy’s Children, has written extensively making the claim that all Tantra is “hard core *****” that gets wrapped up before the public in metaphysical mumbo-jumbo to appear to be legitimate spirituality, which he calls “soft *****” coating. White’s latest book takes this allegation to the extreme, and states that all major yogic exemplars in Indian history were basically not engaged in any kind of spirituality at all. Instead, he claims, they were developing personal power for the purpose of exploiting others. I am unqualified to comment on whether Swami Nithyananda’s case fits this notion of “soft *****,” or whether it was legitimate Tantra. Nor do I have adequate factual data of what happened to pass judgment either way.

This concludes what I have to say about his morality issue as shown in the sex tapes.

My Impressions of Swami Nithyananda Prior to this Scandal

I was introduced to Swami Nithyananda a couple of years ago, by a prominent Hindu leader based in California. This man was so impressed by the young swami that he frequently called me to speak about him in glowing terms. I told him that I had a guru already, and that my present interest in interacting with gurus was mainly as a part of my research for my book on global gurus. He arranged a private meeting for me with Swami Nithyanana which I used mostly to explain the civilization threats facing Hinduism, citing numerous examples, and questioned him on his position in this regard. I found him to be very sharp, a great listener, and in agreement that we must engage social issues rather than pursuing the “world negating” or “escapist” paths that are typical of many gurus today.

Later on, I attended a weekend course in USA where he taught the Patanjali Yoga Sutras. I have read several translations of this great classical work, but I had never before seen it taught experientially. Swami Nithyananda gave the attendees their own personal inner experience of every one of the eight limbs of Patanjali’s system, right up to and including samadhi. This was quite an achievement in two days.

Overall, my interactions with him remained centered largely on the geopolitics of religions. I saw him as a prominent swami who was not running away from troubling issues, such as Christian conversions and the Dravidianization of Tamil identity. Given that I have been writing a book on this very issue in Tamil Nadu for three years (now in the editing stage), I was especially impressed by his experimental program of a Hindu temple on wheels traveling from village to village. In each village this mobile temple stops and offers chanting, a talk by one of the leaders, food, medicines, etc. So it combines religion with social service and thus competes directly against Christian evangelism. Rather than building a temple in every village and needing a purohit in each of the thousands of villages across Tamil Nadu, the strategy was to bring to each village this “temple on wheels.” What I discovered by my own independent fact finding was that wherever this temple on wheels went, the missionaries were upset because it blunted their conversion efforts.

I attended his 21-day meditation program in December 2009. The various techniques in it are very deep and transformative. The best evaluation of this can be done by the hundreds of attendees, who were divided roughly equally between Indians and whites from North America.

In several side conversations with him as well in the public forum, I pursued the point that I already have a guru since 1994, so I was not looking for a new guru. Since my guru had left the body a few years ago, I wanted to continue learning new techniques for my practice. I explained to him that I had previously learned and practiced meditation techniques from multiple sources for over 30 years, including: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Yogi Amrit Desai (who certified me as a teacher), Deepak Chopra, Vipasana, and more. Additionally, I had practiced numerous bhakti traditions, as well as formal Vedanta education from Swami Chinmayananda and Ramakrishna Mission. I went through a serious study of the writings by Sri Aurobindo, various Madhyamika Buddhist systems, Kashmir Shaivism, Ramana Maharshi, etc. So I was not seeking a new guru like most others who took his courses.

I have to say that he never pressured me to adopt him as my new guru, and even said that one must remain loyal to one’s guru. To be classified as a devotee/disciple of his, there are two criteria, neither of which applies to me. First, there is an optional program one can sign up for, to do “paada puja” at the guru’s feet, in order to develop a special link with him. The second is that one can ask to be given an initiation with a new name, in which case his policy is that the person must legally change his/her name, and use this new name publicly. I did not do either of these steps. So my relationship is not as a devotee or disciple, but more arms-length.

It was a two-way street. While he taught me meditation, I brought to him my scholarship on the geopolitical positioning of Hinduism which I feel the gurus know only superficially. They do not adequately know things like: Western philosophy, neither religious nor secular; or Western history; or Western institutions that have been set up explicitly to spread its civilization; or various global campaigns under way to invade Indian civilization through conversions, education, media, political policymaking and more.

He requested that I should present him my findings on such matters so that he and his senior acharyas could learn. I told him that most gurus have little time to listen attentively to a layperson like me, because the gurus like to do all the talking. He replied that he would sit and listen to me seriously. I made it clear that I was disinterested in giving a short talk of a few minutes, because my findings required considerable time to be examined seriously. I told him that I would need two full days of undivided attention, so that I could present 300 Powerpoint slides.

Swami Nithyananda sent me an invitation when I was in Delhi to visit his ashram and present my research. I was delighted to have such an important audience. I was very impressed by the fact that he sat through two long days of my talks, about 12 hours per day. He asked his 40 top acharyas and various thought leaders in his ashram to sit and listen to me for both the days. The interactions were intense, and I explained many points from my forthcoming books. I felt that he and I had a peer relationship, each side being an expert in his domain to teach the other. After my two days of talks were over, he asked me to help him incorporate my core ideas into his curriculum, so as to make sure that his teachings helped position the Vedic civilization properly.

No other guru in the world has invested so much time with me to try and learn these global issues so deeply. (The only other prominent guru I know personally who understands these issues about the external challenges is Swami Dayananda Saraswati.) Most gurus tend to either be dismissive by resorting to spiritual loftiness, or imagine that they already know whatever there is worth knowing. Thus, my primary interest in Swami Nithyananda was as a vehicle to spread greater awareness of the kinds of issues that I was researching. (For instance, he bought a couple of hundred copies of the book, “Invading the Sacred” at the full price, and made it required reading for all his ashram residents.)

I must balance this praise with criticism. In my 2-day talks, I had explicitly discussed that many gurus were falling prey to sex scandals, often with women planted as part of sting operations, or women in the inner circle who got too close and let things get out of control. Despite these warnings, it seems that nothing concrete was done to prevent or at least anticipate the crisis that was to follow.

My Approach to this Investigation

When the scandal broke out I was in Delhi. I called the Bangalore ashram management and found them confident but confused. Probably they felt that the matter would soon get forgotten if left alone. But exactly the opposite happened, as each day brought fresh allegations and sensational media coverage. After several days had passed I was invited to go to Bangalore to study the situation for myself. At that time I had no clue about his Tantra practice with any women. Whatever I knew was based on what his followers told me, because he was personally inaccessible for several days even after I reached Bangalore. I spent many hours daily with some of his ashram’s top team.

What I wrote earlier in this article actually comes later in the chronology of my investigation. But I presented it up front because most readers are obsessed with getting my answer to only one single question: did he or did he not have sex? Nothing else seems to matter to them, whereas my investigation’s emphasis has been about issues broader and more consequential than any one man’s morality.

Until I concluded my fact-finding 2-week period recently, I was unable to discuss the sexual acts shown in the videotapes. I had to respect the policies of his people as part of the trust being placed in me to gain access. They also needed legal clearance on what can and cannot be said by them. Their policy on the sex tapes was that Swami Nithyananda would directly explain his acts. The Tamil actress’ lawyer was also in contact with them and her sensitivities had to be respected. The sensitivities of the 140-strong ashramites had to be protected also. Given this set of circumstances facing me, I feel that it was unfair to demand that I should hound him with the one critical question. People have assumed that it was up to me to decide what would be within the scope of each interview. As I have mentioned earlier, even after certain interviews were recorded by me, the ashram leadership used its discretion not to air them.

In response to my critics on how I conducted my interviews, I would also like to explain why I chose to focus on the criminal charges being made against Swami Nithyananda. Besides the sex-tape being off limits as mentioned in the foregoing paragraph, the criminal charges became my focus for two reasons. These charges could be ascertained with objectivity – such as asking for documents on the land ownership, the medical reports on the death of one meditation participant 2 years ago, and so forth. The evidence was more clear-cut than the evidence on what exactly happened in the videotapes between two persons none of whom were willing to talk with me about it. Secondly, the consequences of criminality would be far more severe than mere moral fallibility. While immoral conduct is a big concern for the devotees, it is not enough grounds by itself for the state to confiscate the entire property that runs into very large sums of money. Also, as a matter of principle, regardless of whether or not he is guilty of the morality charge, I felt opposed to spurious criminal charges being piled up by the irresponsible media just to create sensationalism.

The Conspiracy against Swami Nithyananda

Since I had arrived at the scene while writing my book on the conspiracy in Tamil Nadu religious politics, it was natural to start with that as my emphasis for the investigation. But in this short article I have decided to focus on the matters surrounding his conduct and his organization’s conduct, because these have assumed a more urgent nature. The details of the conspiracy belong in my book as corroborating evidence for my thesis there. The types of parties reported to be behind the conspiracy, both foreign and India based, were remarkably similar to the ones I have written about in the book. So for now I shall merely summarize some of the main points concerning this conspiracy.

First one must understand why Swami Nithyananda became such a target. He was virtually unknown 7 years ago, but once he appeared in public his popularity catapulted at a dramatic rate. For example, last year, UTube wrote to him that he was the most watched of all Indian spiritual leaders on the Internet and proposed a closer collaboration for their viewers. This letter also stated that among all spiritual leaders worldwide (not just Indian) he was the second most popular one, the Vatican being first. His meditation programs have become very popular in USA and in certain Indian states. The main factors are that participants almost invariably report experiencing higher states of consciousness, and he has healed a large number of persons of a variety of diseases. His healing powers are what brought together his core inner group of devotees from around the world – doctors, businessmen, IT professionals, corporate executives. Many of them have explained their personal healings from terminal illnesses as the turning point in their lives. His meditation programs sometimes bring up to a few thousand attendees for periods ranging from a few days to several weeks.

While the funds come mostly from upper strata participants in India and USA, a large portion of the expenses have been allocated to develop grass-roots social and spiritual programs focusing primarily in Tamil Nadu, his native state. This is where he is seen as a threat by Dravidian as well as Christian forces. For instance, in December 2009, about 600 villages across Tamil Nadu sent their local “Nithyananda leaders” for a celebration and planning session in his main ashram near Bangalore. I happened to be present for the event. These common folks, mostly from the lower strata of Tamil society, had walked 300 kilometers for this journey which they saw as a spiritual pilgrimage. The reason for the anger of Christian and Dravidian forces is that his activities have put a dampener to conversions in many districts, and several Christians have return to Hinduism by getting initiated formally into his organization. The swami himself has spoken against conversions, and has also stated that the Dravidian movement had made Tamil people unspiritual in their lives, and that this had caused social decay. His Tamil language publications and courses have become his most popular ones, far exceeding the numbers in English. Also he is a very big threat because he is not a Brahmin. Because he cannot be targeted using the classical attack on Brahmins, and because the masses in Tamil Nadu were rising to swell his ranks, the threat he posed to the existing political power structure had to be stopped one way or another.

The attack against Swami Nithyananda has consisted of two prongs, image and legal. At first a highly sensational sexual charge was broadcast in order to devastate his credibility and create an atmosphere in which any and all kinds of outlandish allegations would be taken at face value. Once the media and popular sentiments had been turned against him, there was one amazing allegation after another in rapid sequence. It was clear that none of this was spontaneous but was being centrally orchestrated under a systematic plan.

What became evident to me was that there was “cooperation” in informal and unofficial ways among the media, police and lower level judiciary. In fact, many third parties were aware of the attack in advance and had warned his people before it happened with specific details of the plan. For instance, one of his top devotees got a phone call from someone based in New York describing the media and police attack that was to come. His predictions turned out to be accurate but at that time the ashramites did not take the threat literally. He said that for the right sum of money he could be helpful in preventing such an attack. He claimed that the planning for this attack had started a year ago. He mentioned that a budget of Rs 200 crores was allocated by some overseas groups to demolish Hindu gurus especially in south India, and named two south Indian churches as the nodal agencies to coordinate this strategic plan. (I am presently pursuing these leads as part of my book investigation.)

There was another concrete extortion effort about eleven or twelve days prior to the scandal breaking out. A lawyer contacted them and claimed that his client had compromising videos, and that the client was seeking money or else they would get released. The same intermediary later sent a letter containing a variety of unsubstantiated criminal allegations against Swami Nithyananda, and this letter’s distribution list included India’s Prime Minister, President, Sonya Gandhi and Rahul Gandhi, various Chief Ministers and police heads, various national criminal investigation and security organizations. I have a copy of this letter, and it makes the Nithyananda organization seem like a terrorist outfit that needs to be attacked for the sake of public safety. This letter along with a DVD of the sex video was delivered to the Chief Minister of Karnataka state two hours before the videotape was first aired. Clearly, the attack was well planned and executed across many locations, and was persistently carried out over several days. This is not the work of some isolated individuals.

There were warnings given to individuals in the ashram that their phones were being tapped and that they better leave to save their own lives, because something horrible was about to happen. One friendly man based in Pune who runs a magazine and is a devotee of Swami Nithyananda, told the ashram a week in advance of the attack that some such catastrophe would happen. He named his source as a man in Bangalore press club. Another publisher in Hyderabad who distributes Swami Nithyananda’s books in Telugu, called three times to warn that a graphic video would be released and gave a precise time for this to happen. It was also reported that an American devotee who had fallen out of the ashram was working in association with Jody Razdik who specializes in guru bashing at a prominent web site. He was being helped by an Indian based in San Diego, who was once very deeply involved inside the Nithyananda organization but had turned malicious. The only man who has openly come out as the main accuser was an ashramite who had a falling out when he got demoted due to his conduct. It was recently reported that he had a prior criminal record against him but nobody in the ashram had checked out his background before admitting him.

There were constant threats received to harass the ashramites and scare them away, with claims that “narcotics will be planted to cause arrest warrants.” The actions by the police were being leaked to the media ahead of time and even to the opposing side, leading to numerous “tips” received by “friends” asking the ashram dwellers to run away before “the attack comes.”

But even after a couple of weeks since the scandal has erupted, the lawyers for Swami Nithyananda’s ashram have failed to get copies of any concrete charges filed with the police, except a few trivial ones. Each time they approach for specific details they are told that there is no formal charge, except relatively minor ones. So the intimidation has been carried out mainly through media reports, without any legal due process starting where facts and arguments could get cross-examined. This lack of formal charges has enabled an atmosphere of intimidation using rumors and threats that cannot be pinned down officially.

It is important to contrast this with the manner in which Indian media treats scandals facing Islamic or Christian groups. The numerous scandals occurring overseas often get blocked by Indian media entirely, or are given mild treatment with tremendous sensitivity, in order to be seen as “secular” and not “communal.” By contrast every kind of allegation against any Hindu group gets clubbed in one homogeneous category and treated as a social scourge equivalent to terror groups.

The media’s hounding mentality and mafia tactics deserve to be condemned. In the Swami Nithyananda case, they have used carrots and sticks to lure and threaten, using whatever would get them more sensational footage. Several TV stations and journalists camped out in Haridwar and sent me emails requesting my help in arranging an interview. When I failed to deliver (because it was not up to me to deliver any such thing), some of them turned nasty against me. One TV woman promised the swami’s people “positive” coverage if she got an exclusive. But after the interview, she betrayed and turned it into more distortion and smut. This led Swami Nithyananda’s handlers to give interviews to more stations in order to counteract this distortion. But the more they said before TV cameras, the worse the scandal became. One station was blatant in its threat to the swami’s assistant: “If you don’t give us an interview right away, we will show you the power of the media to destroy you.” At one point a major TV station also wanted to drag in Ramakrishna Mission with similar allegations, but someone was able to stop that.

Failures of Swami Nithyananda’s Organization

Hindu tradition separates three kinds of varna (skills), each representing a form of social capital, and these three were never supposed to be concentrated in a single person, thereby preventing too much concentration of power. I use the terms Brahmin, Kshatriya and Vaishya not as birth based “caste,” but as merit based social capital and areas of competence. The Brahmin job description focuses on spirituality and research; Kshatriya on governance, politics and leadership; and Vaishyas on commerce and financial capital. Swami Nithyananda had persons with Brahmin qualities performing duties that demand Kshatriya and Vaishnav skills. This was counterproductive. The ashram leaders were selected and trained for skills and roles that are very different than this situation demands. Too often their bhakti and spiritual practice substituted for professional competence in managing a rapidly growing global enterprise. The sole emphasis was placed on traditional Brahmin qualities, and none on what would be considered Kshatriya qualities.

For example, there are a large number of white devotees who do have Kshatriyata – leadership expertise, courage and commitment. But even after this attack the ashram organization has blundered in its failure to leverage and deploy them. I met some of these Westerners at the Kumbh and found them remarkably willing to stand up for their guru, but nobody had bothered to organize them and take advantage of the fact that Swami Nithyananda has a global following. Instead of such initiatives to deal with the crisis, his organization was in utter chaos, reacting to each “hit” by the other side. Its leaders were running scared, driven by one rumor after another. Decisions were being made in desperation and panic. The group was cognitively disoriented and many of its members were psychologically breaking down.

The organization was too much of a one-man show with the leaders operating like children dependent on the swami for every decision. The swami had become the iconic object of the ashram’s inner circle. Their proximity to him became their measure of personal power and identity. This is classical cult-like behavior that cannot survive the onslaughts that are inevitable nowadays. Such a concentration of varnas into one man not only makes an enterprise incompetent, but it also can also get into the leader’s head and make him power hungry. Especially when the guru has siddhis, this power can easily become co-opted by his ego into a dangerous mixture. The result is that he surrounds himself with psychopaths who tell him what he wants to hear, and this feedback loop of self glorification turns into group delusion.

I noticed this in the form of the inner circle’s inability to make common sense judgments, and their misrepresenting the facts to their leader by giving him too much “good news.” The result was that the honest truth did not come out fast enough to allow pragmatic and realistic planning. I had a difficult time to get dependable information, and the stories kept changing not only over time but also between one person and another within the group. I could not tell if there was a cover up and if new lies were fabricated to cover prior lies. In such an atmosphere one cannot tell which individuals might have a separate stake and vested interest from the group. Lacking competent Kshatriyas, the swami had not anticipated that such a crisis was ever possible, despite the fact that outsiders (including myself in my 2-day talks at his ashram) had explained to them the threats facing every prominent Hindu mahatma today.

While on the one hand I blame those in positions of responsibility at the ashram, ultimately Swami Nithyananda bears the responsibility as he selected them, defined their roles, evaluated their performance, motivated and supervised them very closely. In this regard, his spiritual capabilities had failed to evaluate those very close to him as well as the external reality. An enlightened master must do better than this, or else he must not try to control everything so personally.

I acknowledge that being a global guru is very demanding today, given that one has to represent a very old tradition authentically and yet in a manner that appeals to modern people. This is why Hindu leaders need a crash course on matters that are well beyond the traditional education in their own sampradayas (lineages).

Hindu Chaos

Swami Nithyananda’s own support base in India has started to distance itself out of self preservation amidst all the rumors and slander. His closest supporters were not approached soon enough with his side of the story, and by the time they were approached the damage to his credibility was already irreversible. They did not want to risk being associated with a “fallen guru.” Many Hindu gurus have started to publicly lash out against the “fallen godman”; others became silent or neutral publicly, while offering private sympathy but refusing to stick their necks out.

One factor is that the swami’s approach was too conservative for some and too liberal for others. It is too filled with deities, symbols and rituals of a very orthodox kind for the aesthetic taste of modern global gurus who propagate a whitened, Westernized “clean” Hinduism that is abstract and metaphysical but devoid of imagery associated with “primitive paganism.” At the other end of the spectrum are orthodox Hindu leaders who find his idea of youthful dancing, celebration, and liberal atmosphere to be not “real” Hinduism. A couple of shankaracharyas interviewed on NDTV lashed out against “false” gurus and claimed that only the shankaracharyas had the authority to certify who was qualified to be a guru. So Swami Nithyananda fits neither end of this spectrum.

Many of the gurus I met have told me in confidence that they fear that similar attacks are coming to more Hindu gurus, but that there is no central Hindu mechanism to deal with these episodes along the lines of various church mechanisms that intervene when Christianity faces a scandal. I sent feelers to the Hindu Dharma Acharya Sabha as to whether it should offer to step in and take over the ashram and its related organizations, thereby bringing new management to clean up matters and bring stability to the enterprise. I was told that while this was a “good idea in principle,” it was not practical because HDAS is simply not set up to deal with this.

The Way Forward

My overriding concern throughout this investigation has been to find a way to do damage control in order to protect the broader interests of dharma. This requires a pragmatic approach. Given the state of affairs, it seems that the mess cannot be created without the swami leaving the movement and going into a strictly private life of meditation and self inquiry. I worry for the young ashramites who I feel are amazing individuals but in need of proper mentoring. They have a solid commitment to the cause and their personal spiritual paths, but they lack the sophistication and maturity to deal with what they face today.

Swami Nithyananda should resign immediately and hand over all his organizations to senior spiritual masters, preferably Shaivites practicing the Shiva Sutras and related traditions. He told me in an interview hat I recorded on March 9th that he was willing to leave everything and become a wandering sadhu again. I wish that interview had been aired.

The new spiritual leaders would give the ashram a new life and chance to revive itself. It could either remain a place for spiritual training or turn itself into a Hindu social service organization. Either way it would be a better outcome than the likely alternative of the government stepping in to take over the ashram and turn it over to administrators who are not positively disposed to Hindu spirituality – as has happened in numerous similar cases of government takeovers of Hindu temples and organizations despite claims of being “secular”.

Besides giving up the organization, Swami Nithyananda should return to his personal sadhana under their guidance. Let them evaluate him and his organization, and issue their independent report to the public. Swami Nithyananda should fearlessly and humbly submit himself to their judgment of what happened and what the remedies ought to be.

Hinduism has survived for many millennia and faced many kinds of crises, just like all the other major religions of the world. It has its own internal resources and mechanisms to deal with such situations. These need to be put to use and they need to become modernized. This is not the last such scandal Hindu groups are going to face in the near future.

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1 Response to “How church destroyed Swami Nithyananda! – Rajiv Malhotra”
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1 S.S.Nagaraj
November 1, 2010 at 7:29 pm
Hindus for all their brilliance,totally lack common sence.The people who invented ‘Zero’ but for which there would not have been any progress in the sceintific world are a big ‘Zero’ themselves to understand the mischievous activities of the Church.How can Nityananda be foolish to employ a Christian called Lenin as his driver,who is the kingpin in exposing this so called scandal.Further,It was foolhardy on the part of Nityananda to go into hiding after the expose,instead of bravely facing the media and the authorities.On the otherhand we have innumerable cases of Catholic priests in Kerala caught in acts of child abuse and rape of nuns,but they run away from the scene.Our highly prejudised media dare not write a line on the book, by ex-sister Jesme,called Amen.Even Sri Sri Ravishankar was tried to be scandalised by a Christian,accusing him of land grabbing.This man was supported by Hindus like Agni Sridhar for whatever interest.Christins are trying to destroy all Hindu religious organisations by creating alleged scandals or even going to the extent of murdering,like in the case of Swami Lakshmananda of Kandhmal,for the crime of running a girls orphanage.

[krithivas]

^^^
The murder conspiracy lodged against Kanchi Shankaracharya Sri Jayendra Saraswathi falls in the same category. The Christian population, and the number of Churches and Evangelical organizations in Tamilnadu have multiplied over the past 20 years. Christian evangelical organizations and Christian conversion in India are a clear and present danger to Indian culture. Just take a road trip from Chennai to Tiruttani ... you would see the number of churches by the roadside simply astound you, there are more churches than Temples.

[chetak]

quote="chackojoseph" ^^^^ Also, the Bangladeshi's are claiming themselves as Christians in North East.

Where did I say that.

I am saying this. Not you. There is an increase in Christians in North East. Its cleared that Bangladeshi's Muslims are listing themselves as Christians.

Chackojoseph,

Where are the references, links or any documentation?

This is very interesting.

[chetak]

^^^
The murder conspiracy lodged against Kanchi Shankaracharya Sri Jayendra Saraswathi falls in the same category. The Christian population, and the number of Churches and Evangelical organizations in Tamilnadu have multiplied over the past 20 years. Christian evangelical organizations and Christian conversion in India are a clear and present danger to Indian culture. Just take a road trip from Chennai to Tiruttani ... you would see the number of churches by the roadside simply astound you, there are more churches than Temples.

Why do you think that Amma backtracked so quickly from her anti conversion bill??

Her survival is far more important than the survival of her culture.

Would any government in India have the balls to arrest even a small time bishop or imam??

Where as Kanchi Shankaracharya Sri Jayendra Saraswathi is roughly the Hindu equivalent of the pope

We are all sickular onlee.

[chackojoseph]

CJ ji,
in the context of my post - the historical Hindu elite conversions - some of whom proved aggressive and destructive taking out their bile on supposed previous personal issues with their native networks/families/clans. My point was that the Church "was" aware of the grievances and the essential political/military nature of the seeking a bridge with the imperialist power behind the respective Churches - and knew that the spiritual component was dubious - yet they went on and accepted such converts. This comment was not about the present.

It would be most difficult to judge on spot as to how much the person seeking conversion is motivated by social/personal ambitions and how much some genuine spiritual preference. I know that candidates are vetted. But people can recognize what they need to say or act to get entry. Even if you say that the Church does not consciously take in "personal grievances" - the detailed economic and social studies done from the Church side shows that the Church personnel on spot must be aware of the possibility, and they incorporate the "grievance" bit into an argument as to why certain populations should be the "target" for the "good news".

Moreover, the history of the Church as a whole, Christianity as a movement with its various twists and turns and its political and military past as well as present globally and on the subcontinent - is not that much available to the Indian public in general. There is little that will be available in the libraries as to negative chronicles or the view from the non-sympathetic side. Christianity is not unique in this - Islamic records are protected or kept away from general access in desh. Note that similar protection is not accorded to the Hindu. The lack of easily accessible publicly available critical material or even actual records - even the detailed theological debates, or the modern historical and archeological standpoint on the origins and further development of the various Churches - are not really practically publicly available.

This creates a wonderful ambience in which the Churches can represent themselves in ways that need not reflect or reveal their entire record, intentions, political and other ideological affiliations, or even continuing actions worldwide. I have several connections with Churches in desh, and am very much aware of the sectarianism and factional infighting. But what galled me many times was the almost complete lack of awareness and sometimes outright suppression and denial of any aspect of the Christian history - past as well as immediate before present - that points to a deep seated core political/militant drive bordering on imperialism. I have supplied material and access to academic literature that exposes the real record - and have seen astonished incredulity.

Sufis are known to have often suppressed the core doctrinal and dogmatic imperialist aspect of their faith initially when the converts were new as a generation. They revealed their fangs once the initial harvesting was done and the host society got divided politically [again each of these proselytizing methods insist on visible and social new identities to distinguish and separate the convert from host society influences - as RajeshA ji has pointed out] - and the imperialist power behind the sufis showed their military might.

brihaspatiji,

The Hindu elitist conversation you have heard is something I cannot comment upon. If I were to make informed judgement, the, I should be hearing that. I hope you will agree. Ditto with sufis.

What happened globally is a matter of academic subject. Like Mutual fund warning, past results may not be the indicator of the future.

Coming Your asertion that the records are not avaliable. Whatever you want to read, please go to the nearest church and ask the father where you can find those records. You should take into account that you make him understand it in the way he understands. What is your question might not be the way he is looking at the subject. Either he may try to explain it to you. If he cannot, he will or you can ask him to suggest a person who can address your questions or where the resources can be found. Or you can wait. Church has started talking about Church Lokpal and Goa is looking at RTI for Churches. As I have shown before, a lot of the arguments are hypothical. What someone should do is subscribe to Church publications, scan them for the issues facing conversions. 'Examiner' is one such publication and has wealth of information if you read over the period of time. There are interfaith dialogues which come out with wealth of information.

My point is that the arguments you and others are putting up are either of very high philosophical value or some routine misconceptions.

The huge article you have posted is something which is interesting to read, but, I am not qualified to comment. There are so many theories that you can drown in them. It is nice to read and understand.

Since you have already understood that we do filter the people who come for conversions and then there is a small bad element. Now you know we are considering church Lokpal. Now, next for you will be see that a lot of information is avaliable. Tyr to read them. A lot of misconceptions will disappear.

[chackojoseph]

Chackojoseph,

Where are the references, links or any documentation?

This is very interesting.

Christian growth alarmingly high in NE

[brihaspati]

chackojoseph ji,
a very simple example : if a lad growing up in desh, who has never come across any reference material on the Goan Inquisition - will think of asking for the proceedings of the inquisition records from the RC Church? How much of the negative records are even hinted at during regular education? Compared to that supposed thousands of years of "Hindu" atrocities are discussed or referenced quite explicitly in standard educational process. None of our common textbooks contain any ref to any atrocious behaviour within and by Christian or islamic "churches".

The very nature of the questioning or searching would be guided by what prior negative hints the person has come across. It is not entirely a coincidence that "Hindus" who were brought up in the "secular" selective suppression of records in desh turn otherwise abroad - because much more of source material are available outside.

Past negative records are important. The theological justifications used at the time, are not always denounced later on when exposed. This means that the way is left open for future re-use of the same. Simply the "atrocity" is regretted. but the essential questions as to what aspect of the doctrine led to sanctioning of such an "atrocity" - is never really addressed. As far as I know, there is still no apology for the Goan inquisition from the RCC. Even less is there any hint of any willingness to consider what part of the doctrine led to justifying those acts!

The thing is there is little in the standardized textual prescription of the core text about how the church should be organized or how it should be guided in its practical implementations. Just as there is there are little actual prescriptions - there is little that would similarly ban militant, aggressive, political and state-coercive tactics by any Church - the New Testament simply carefully has avoided or deleted all problematic aspects of relationship with the state. This leaves a huge space where the churches can operate - opportunistically, given appropriate military-political situations, to employ any and all methods to achieve what they consider the supreme doctrinal objective - that of bringing non-Christians under the control of the doctrine. It is subject to practical as well as pragmatic considerations -so that adverse situations will lead to tactical suppression of that potentially coercive mindset, while favourable political-military situation will lead to adoption of the state-coercive route.

Actually, is there any passage in the Bible that can directly be used to prohibit the methods used in the inquisition phases - except a vague recourse to modern "humanism" or "humanitarian values", which again is an ill-defined concept, and changes with the times, and not necessarily outlined as such in the text?

Actually, I would like you to consider the hypothesis that : a large numerically dominant Hindu population not sought to be reduced by "salvation" was, and is the best guarantee of existence for the multiplicity of denominations within Christianity to survive and explore Christ's message independently of other denominations in their own ways. Wherever, Christianity managed to "convert" all or the majority - either only one denomination remained after possible bloody extermination of all competing others - or the country divided up into independent states carved out by denominations stalemated in a military-political tie. The Goan Inquisition tried to eliminate the Syrian Malankaras too.

Talk of harvesting of billions of "heathens" or "lost souls" in India - only points to a desire for elimination of this factor - so that one Christian denomination can then fight out for supreme power and dominance, only serves to undermine the protective influence of the majority community.

You have to understand, that we cannot let down our guard based on prior experience : both proselytizing branches of the Abrahamic in India tried to eliminate our intellectuals [of that society], literally destroy our texts, ban and destroy our cultural practices, and most importantly tried to eliminate our accumulated knowledge and philosophical perspectives, with an underlying theme of coercive violence running through - and to do it all by gaining access to state power. The history of attempted total cultural elimination and replacement - can never be forgotten again, as a matter of caution. The "indigenization" that you referred to will have to be seen also in the light of possibility of a "taqyia" style tactic - which again is not very new - it was seen as early as Missionary activity under cover of the Anglo-French early military presence in India. The deliberate "deception" angle was exposed even then.

[chackojoseph]

a very simple example : if a lad growing up in desh, who has never come across any reference material on the Goan Inquisition - will think of asking for the proceedings of the inquisition records from the RC Church? How much of the negative records are even hinted at during regular education? Compared to that supposed thousands of years of "Hindu" atrocities are discussed or referenced quite explicitly in standard educational process. None of our common textbooks contain any ref to any atrocious behaviour within and by Christian or islamic "churches".

Very good and interesting question. As per wiki,

Most of the Goa Inquisition's records were destroyed after its abolition in 1812, and it is thus impossible to know the exact number of the Inquisition's victims.

. I doubt you will get that if thats been destroyed. So, text books will not have that. Church maintains that it was Portughese rulers who carried it out, not church. If they apologise, it will mean that the church had carried on the Inquisitions.

My point is that, the church is not political. I have made that clear. Rest of the argument, I cannot answer because our view points differ.

added later....

As per the information, the church did not use Portuguese for Inquisition, it was Portuguese who used Inquisition as a political tool.

[sanjaykumar]

Heehee. Think I will sit this one out.

[chackojoseph]

Heehee. Think I will sit this one out.

ROFL, I am on my way out. I just wanted to dispel some wrong notions on church and other things. Now the discussions are going hypothical, history and future. No fun. Its academic interest. For some people, this is important. I find this very boring and tiring.

[RajeshA]

Heehee. Think I will sit this one out.

ROFL, I am on my way out. I just wanted to dispel some wrong notions on church and other things. Now the discussions are going hypothical, history and future. No fun. Its academic interest. For some people, this is important. I find this very boring and tiring.

chackojoseph ji,

what would you have liked to see here. Which angle or focus would have been of interest to you?

[brihaspati]

Inquisition was not a "secular" instititution [in the medieval "lords secular and temporal" sense]. Hence for the Church to deny its involvement it has to show that it protested such misappropriation of its institution at that time. No such records exist. Moreover apologies have been proffered elsewhere in the world.

But much more importantly what is the theological criticism or characterization of such "atrocities"? Was it un-Church like, was it anti-Bible, or anti-Christ and anti-Chrisitian?

[svinayak]

There was no seperation of Church and the King in those times

[brihaspati]

Part 1 of some illustrative methods:

PROTESTANTISM AND TRADITION IN INDIAN MEXICO
Evangelical Protestantism and Indigenous Populations by
Christian Gros,
Bull Latin Am Res.Vol.18, No.2,pp.175-1971,999
Blackwell Publishing, for Society for Latin American Studies.

As a neighbour of the United States Mexico has not surprisingly experienced with particular force the religious influence of American Protestantism. J-P. Bastian has shown the extent of the influence of historic, liberal and democratic Protestantism among the Mexican elite from the mid-19th and through the 20th centuries into the post-revolutionary period under the domination of a lay, corporatist and anti-clerical single-party state. In 1936, Cardenas, the national hero who as President carried out Land Reform and nationalised the oil industry, also allowed into the country a campaign of evangelisation which, under the pretext of translating the Bible into indigenous languages, constituted the first planned effort to convert indigenous communities to a religious fundamentalism of the purest 'Bible-Belt' variety. In this, Cardenas had the support of Moises Saenz, a major figure and himself a Presbyterian, who was to be the organiser ofthe first Latin American Indigenist Congress in 1940, at Patzcuaro.

Thus it was with the consent of a state which was both particularly eager to defend its national independence and also committed to the integration and assimilation of its Indian population, that the Summer Institute of Linguistics (Instituto Linguistico de Verano henceforth ILV) embarked upon its proselytising work. In the subsequent decades the ILV did not cease to multiply the number of its linguists' and to broaden the scope of its operations: by 1963 it had missionaries working among 82 different groups, and ten years later there were 367 in 94 communities. At the same time Pentecostalism [not to be confused with the fundamentalist doctrine of the Summer Institute] was making its presence felt both on Mexico's Indian frontiers and on the periphery of its urban areas, to the point where by the 1960s it was the country's foremost religious heterodoxy. By then the ILV had important political backing since both President Luis Echeverria [well known for his anti-imperialist rhetoric] and the Director of the Mexican government's Instituto Nacional Indigenista (INI) were members of its Board of Directors (Russ and Wasserstrom, 1981: 161-162).


Uprising in Ixtepec

Ixtepec (2773 inhabitants at the time of Garma Navarro's study, 1984) is a typical, predominantly Indian community whose principal activity combines subsistence agriculture with coffee production for the market. Evangelical Protestantism arrived there in 1951 with an ILV mission, and in subsequent years it developed through successive waves of fragmentation of the resulting religious communities. Today there are five churches (one Baptist, one Evangelical and three Pentecostal) each with its own leader and hierarchy of pastors and preachers. The whites and mestizos in the area have all retained their strict adherence to Catholicism, while Protestantism, followed exclusively by Indians, has produced a break with a traditional order in which the politico-religious institutions of popular Catholicism as found throughout Mexican Indian society with its apparatus of cofradias (lay brotherhoods), alcaldes (mayors) and mayores (elders) were the keystone of community organisation.


Adherence to Protestantism has been accompanied by a rejection of alcohol and of the burdensome expenses incurred during traditional fiestas. Converts refuse to take part in the cargo system3 or to assume their ritual obligations and so long as freedom of worship is not guaranteed, they also refuse to participate in the faena, that is, in the collective work of maintenance of irrigation canals and other infrastructure, under the control of the community's Catholic office-holders.


The attraction of the Pentecostal churches seems to lie in the charisma of their founders, and also in their thaumaturgical capacities, or gift of healing. But Gama Navarro furthermore shows how the young and dynamic pastor of Agua Viva church (which he had founded in 1968), a literate man who had experience of urban life, had gone far beyond the purely religious sphere by arousing aspirations for change among some of Ixtepec's inhabitants. Not only was he the mediator between his congregation and the Holy Spirit, he also became the leader of a movement whose aim was to wrest economic and political power, namely the coffee trade and local government, from the ladino minority.

In alliance with a Catholic group committed to renewal, the Pentecostals of Agua Viva created a coffee marketing cooperative and a new organisation suitably named Unidad y Progreso to defend the joint interests of small producers and also to clean up local politics. Since its main enemy was the PRI and its local leader the municipal President who was mestizo and Catholic, they looked to the opposition left-wing PSUM party for the necessary logistical support in their struggle. This eventually led to a violent confrontation between the new organisation and the supporters of the local PRI candidate and the police over an issue of electoral fraud.
The development of Protestantism has gone hand in hand with the expansion of coffee
production and the new requirements of the market economy. The very large amounts of money previously spent on fiestas and the fulfilment of cargos are now channelled into production by the Protestant converts. The prohibitions on alcohol and festival expenditure have less to do with the dictates of Anglo-American puritanism than with a work and saving ethic which has its justification in local realities.

The hard core of the indigenous movement consists of smallholding coffee producers allied with wage-earners who suffer exploitative treatment at the hands of the ladinos, but the churches also operate as centres where the dynamism and ambition of young, relatively well-educated spiritual leaders, most of whom have connections beyond the community, can find a productive outlet. These young men, convinced of their own merits and of having been chosen by providence, are ill-disposed to the power exercised by the elders who control a politico-religious hierarchy in which access to the top cargos is very expensive and can only be reached at an advanced age after passage through lower cargos. As spiritual leaders, with a Church of their own, they have become the new mediators between the faithful and God, and also between the community and the outside world. Thus, they are contributing to the opening up of the community and to a break in its dependence on ladino power.

[brihaspati]

Part 2.

The outcasts of Chamula

When a religious heterodoxy erupts in a traditional indigenous community endowed with institutions of its own, bringing with it a new church with its pastor and his faithful, the established order is inevitably destabilised. Where the community is organised around a system of cargos and cofradias, religious dissidence can easily be seen as a challenge to those authorities and thus takes on a political dimension. It is hardly surprising, then, that representatives ofthe traditional institutions denounce the representatives ofa group which refuses to conform to established practices and threatens the cohesion of the community. The next step occurs when external forces, for a variety of reasons, take up the defence of the community's 'cultural integrity' and of the social order associated with it.
[...]
Chiapas, a region which reveres the figure of Bartolome de las Casas, the 'defender of the Indians' attracted the attention of the ILV at a very early stage. Its first missionary arrived in 1938 in the North ofthe state and by 1944 St. Mark's Gospel had been translated into Tzeltzal, the local language. Apart from translating the Bible, the missionaries, seeing the serious health problems of the local population, founded early on a series of medical and clinics and trained Indians as health workers. In Russ and Wasserstrom's words (1981: 168) 'Bible plus antibiotics' was the magic recipe whereby the ILV overcame distrust and won Indians over to its cause. The number of converts grew and grew in the North of Chiapas, while other religiously motivated linguist groups worked among the Choi Indians near Palenque and in Central Chiapas. As we shall see in the case of Chamula the spread of Protestantism was quite slow to begin with.

It is relevant to recall that at the same time in the 1940s, the Mexican government brought the process of Land Reform to a sudden halt and instead began to encourage the reconstitution of large estates on the grounds that they would be more efficient and could support export-oriented agriculture. In Chiapas this was to stimulate a renewed process of land concentration in the hands of ladino groups engaged in cattle-raising and coffee production. In the Indian communities this, plus the growth of the population, led to a serious land shortage and to emigration, especially of Tzeltal and Choi groups of converts, to the lowland Lacandon forests. 'In this way, a clear pattern was established: rather than fight for land reform and increased political justice in the highlands, many of the region's most active and capable young men in effect changed their religion and moved away. The jungle was virgin territory, and if the missionaries did not mismanage their affairs, it would be Protestant' (Russ and Wasserstrom, 1981: 168). In regions further removed from the colonisation areas seasonal migration and employment as peones on coffee estates were the only alternative; but without the safety valve of migration internal pressures in the community built up. The ILV thus found itself operating in the midst of tensions which at first imperilled its mission, but at a later stage may well have favoured it. Social tensions may indeed find a religious resolution, but at the price of splitting the community in two and unleashing pitiless religious strife, as exemplified in the case of Chamula.

In Chamula, at the heart of Chiapas, the confrontation between catolicos and evangelicos took a dramatic turn: almost 30,000 persons, that is more than half the population, purportedly Protestants, were expelled from the municipio by the Catholic communal authorities and today live for the most part on the outskirts of San Cristobal de las Casas. According to Russ and Wasserstrom (1981) and Tickell (1991) the origins of the group who now hold power in Chamula lies in the indigenist policy, initiated by Cardenas, of training bilingual indigenous educators. No sooner had these educators been placed in their posts than they evolved into a new elite which exploited its superior education and its occupation of key administrative positions to play the role of mediators between the community and the larger society and, of course, to amass wealth for themselves. The two most important tools in this strategy were their control over indigenous workers' unions and over regional Land Reform committees. This being a labour-exporting region sending seasonal workers to the coffee plantations, these young leaders were able to strike a deal with the ladino bourgeoisie to guarantee a stable supply of workers, thus ensuring that, by the 1940s, they were able to achieve control of the Indigenous Workers' Union which had been created in 1936. Furthermore their control over the regional Land Reform Committees came from their loyalty to the PRI and enabled them to appear among the few Indians to benefit from land redistribution.

But what was to be the attitude of this new class towards the traditional
community authorities? Would they play the modernist and reformist card against tradition, or would they attempt to legitimise their new-found power by going along with tradition and 'folk Catholicism'? At first a conflict seemed inevitable, as the old guard felt their power threatened. But instead, far from rising up against them, the educators made shrewd use of their economic power to penetrate the cargo system; thanks to their personal incomes they were able to take on the cargos without incurring large debts. Once they were in control of the politico-religious system they used it to enrich themselves further, through sale of the abundantly consumed alcohol (posh) during fiestas they sponsored, and through the appropriation of the community's collective work for their own benefit. The position of these new leaders was also strengthened by the policy, adopted by the Mexican government from 1938, of dealing only with bilingual municipal Presidents. Thus, a modernised cacicazgo emerged in Chamula who adopted the clothes and customs of their predecessors and kept a tight grip on the economic, social, religious and political life of the community. It is in this context that the determination ofthe Protestants to break with posh and with the system of collective labour obligations (faenas) must be understood. For them Protestantism is a cover for a challenge to a traditional order once based on principles of reciprocity and redistribution but now distorted by the manipulations of neo-traditional caciques and increasingly out of tune with both the logic of the market and the needs of families. An individual faces a stark choice: by accepting a cargo he will fall into debt and contribute to the enrichment of those who sell the drink, lend the money and control the labour market, since one is obliged to work on their estates to repay one's debt; or else by refusing the cargo he becomes an evangelico, joining a new group which does not recognise the traditional obligations. This is why Bastian sees in the rejection of alcohol and cargos 2 'blow against the levers of command controlled by traditional caciques, rather than an adherence to Anglo-Saxon puritanism' (Bastian, 1994: 231). It was 30 years from the arrival ofthe ILV missionaries to the beginning ofthe 'strike'. At first the missionaries had difficulty penetrating such tightly controlled communities and had to confine themselves to linguistic work, but in the late 1960s the internal struggles of the communities had reached breaking point and thus opened a breach in the wall of cacique power which the Protestants could exploit. This occurred for two reasons: the landlords began to look elsewhere for labour, thus weakening the caciques' hold on the labour market through their control ofthe agricultural workers' union; and the slow but steady progress of education which created frustrated students, especially those who resented the lack of recognition of their new-found knowledge in the employment opportunities available in the prevailing system. Thus, workers forced by their poverty to work on the estates, educated young people who were excluded from the clientelistic networks, and small traders ruined by the caciques all joined together in increasingly bitter attacks on the established powers and their corruption. In 1968 a conflict broke out over a tax imposed by the caciques exclusively for their own benefit, and in 1973-1974 the state authorities, fearing that the protests would spread to other municipalities, sent in the army and imprisoned more than 150 opposition activists.

This context of social polarisation and mutual destruction provided a fertile terrain on which the ILV could sow. Evangelical preaching took on a new meaning to those in Chamula who were in conflict with or under the thumbs of the caciques. It offered a third way in which social challenges to the established order could be channelled into the peaceful and apolitical path of religious conversion. The Protestant offensive thus feeds on social contradictions which precede it and which it has not directly brought about, but on which it will make an indelible imprint. Similarly Garcia-Ruiz observes in Guatemala how Protestant religion in some sense replaces political activity when political space is closed down: 'when political expression is blocked because it draws down the repression of leaders and their organisations, the only way open to [the Indians] is the appropriation of the terrain of religion which in any case pervades the entire dynamic of national life with a visibility all of its own'. Things started to move very fast: the number of converts rose from 20 in 1968 to 80 in 1972 and then grew exponentially after the repression of 1974-1976: 'By declaring such [political] activity to be against the law, the government in effect encouraged former dissidents to pursue the only avenue of protest still available to them: religious conversion. On this score the missionaries' patience was well rewarded: by 1976 more than 800 families had joined SIL ranks: nearly 500 of these included men who originally participated in the movement for political reform (Russ and Wasserstrom, 1981: 170). The split between 'Catholics' and creyentes ('believers', i.e. Protestants) then took centre stage and emerged as the first threat to a power structure founded on the religious orthodoxy of la costumbre.4

The response of the 'Catholic' caciques in their new capacity of defenders of tradition was to demonise the evangelicos, accusing them among other things, of destroying the community and being under foreign influence. With the support of the authorities at regional level they banished the heretics and during the following years more than half the entire population of Chamula were expelled and their lands redistributed to families linked to the local office-holders.

It must be emphasised that this apparently religious conflict is in fact manipulated for economic and political ends. Anyone who opposes the system is, willy-nilly, classed as an evangelico and expelled. Conversely[...] the opponents themselves tend to interpret their own dissidence in religious terms. As a final irony, the 'Catholic' caciques, faced with criticism ofthe expulsions emanating from the local Catholic hierarchy, headed by Samuel Ruiz the 'red bishop' of San Cristobal, then formally transferred their allegiance to the Orthodox Church, through the good offices of a 'Pope' who was not recognised even by his own hierarchy (Tickell, 1991). Today the problem of Chamula is in suspense; the expelled inhabitants, who have built their own churches on the outskirts of San Cristobal, demand, sometimes violently, the return of their land, and have received support from the Zapatista National Liberation Army which included their grievances in its official platform.5

[JE Menon]

>>Church maintains that it was Portughese rulers who carried it out, not church. If they apologise, it will mean that the church had carried on the Inquisitions.

The First Inquisition was started in the 13th century, by Pope Gregory IX. The Inquisition was officially ended sometime between 1962 and 1965, when the Congregation of the Holy Office (the body that controlled the Inquisition) was succeeded by the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith, which incidentally was headed by Joseph Ratzinger, the current pope. It was the Roman Catholic church which started the inquisition, and the Church which ended it, officially. And that was, finally, followed up with an official pardon for Galileo for heresy, in 1992.

For those interested in the genocidal atrocities committed by the Portuguese Church in India, perhaps the foremost scholar in the world is Dr. Sanjay Subrahmanyam, son of the late K. Subrahmanyam, doyen of Indian strategic affairs analysis.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanjay_Subrahmanyam

added later:

>>As per the information, the church did not use Portuguese for Inquisition, it was Portuguese who used Inquisition as a political tool.

According to the same wiki page mentioned in the relevant post above, Voltaire states:

"Goa is sadly famous for its inquisition, equally contrary to humanity and commerce. The Portuguese monks made us believe that the people worshiped the devil, and it is they who have served him)".

Historian Alfredo de Mello describes the performers of Goan inquisition as:

"nefarious, fiendish, lustful, corrupt religious orders which pounced on Goa for the purpose of destroying paganism (ie Hinduism) and introducing the true religion of Christ".

Separately, Teutonio De Souza (an Indo-Portuguese historian) notes in his Goa Inquisition: "The Goan inquisition is regarded by all contemporary portrayals as the most violent inquisition ever executed by the Portuguese Catholic Church. It lasted from 1560 to 1812."

He added: ""At least from 1540 onwards, and in the island of Goa before that year, all the Hindu idols had been annihilated or had disappeared, all the temples had been destroyed and their sites and building material was in most cases utilized to erect new Christian Churches and chapels. Various viceregal and Church council decrees banished the Hindu priests from the Portuguese territories; the public practices of Hindu rites including marriage rites, were banned; the state took upon itself the task of bringing up Hindu orphan children; the Hindus were denied certain employments, while the Christians were preferred; it was ensured that the Hindus would not harass those who became Christians, and on the contrary, the Hindus were obliged to assemble periodically in Churches to listen to prea! ching or to the refutation of their religion.

A particularly grave abuse was practiced in Goa in the form of 'mass baptism' and what went before it. The practice was begun by the Jesuits and was alter initiated by the Franciscans also. The Jesuits staged an annual mass baptism on the Feast of the Conversion of St. Paul (January 25), and in order to secure as many neophytes as possible, a few days before the ceremony the Jesuits would go through the streets of the Hindu quarter in pairs, accompanied by their Negro slaves, whom they would urge to seize the Hindus. When the blacks caught up a fugitive, they would smear his lips with a piece of beef, making him an 'untouchable' among his people. Conversion to Christianity was then his only option."

The Roman Catholic church, through in this case the Portuguese Catholic church, was the guide and guardian of the Goan inquisition. There is extensive documentation on this.

[paramu]

There was no seperation of Church and the King in those times

In fact Pope granted permission to Portugese and Spaniard to do whatever they wanted, to propagate the religion.

I can see a pattern of lies church tells its followers to keep them controlled. When the blame has to be on church, they put it on some other political entity so that believers don't get disgruntled.

[chackojoseph]

chackojoseph ji,

what would you have liked to see here. Which angle or focus would have been of interest to you?

Like said before, this is not the top of the mind for me. I have already given broad based idea what church does right now. Technically speaking, I have put the other prespective. People are smart enough to make an informed descision.

I am not interested in the history because of some slelectivism being thrust upon the unsuspecting Indian masses. For example "Goa Inquisition." Who is asking for pardon? After college, I used to be in a newspaper which had huge circulation in Goa. For nearly 2 years, I have not seen anyone complaining. There are folks who wish to emigrate to portugal and a lot of them speak very highly of Portughese. Even searching on Internet, baring one Mr Kamat and another odd comment, all are copy paste articles and quote Mr Kamat. Goa Inquisition was horrible, but what Church states has been on record. I have not seen anyone asking Portughese or British government to apologise for their part in Indian history. Most of the british stooges were whom? Why these people were in high places after freedom? Why they still hild high places? Why no apologies for larger crimes against Indians by Indian Hindus, Muslims, Christians?

For majority of the History, it was Hindus themselves who were cohort with the impearilist. Some are arguing that "We have been colonised" so what we could do? Colonisation by Portughese did not hold much because of their behaviour. The british lasted so much time because they were not into force full conversion and the locals were in leagues with them. I am really thrilled of glorifying of Hindu rulers who fought the impearilists. Why haven't Hindus addressed the traitors among them? Why there is no Hindu apology on the excesses on Indians?

The crux of the problem is that, when such questions are asked, Hindus resent it and say that its minorities who are muddying the water. Look at the Indian spies who turned traitors. List them here, See waht religion they belong to? How many Christians you will find there? What religion are the people belonging to who are involved in multi million rupees scams?

All this time, I have been avoiding to point the finger back in order to not dilute my message on what christians do today. If I had done, folks would have jumped up and said "look" by attacking us and this is the usual minority trick.

[abhishek_sharma]

this is the usual minority trick.

Chacko: How do you "quantify" your claims discussed above?

[abhishek_sharma]

What religion are the people belonging to who are involved in multi million rupees scams?

Who is the head of UPA alliance?

Self introspection is not one of your strengths.

[abhishek_sharma]

Chackojoseph,

Where are the references, links or any documentation?

This is very interesting.

Christian growth alarmingly high in NE

Can you explain how this article supports your claim that "Its cleared that Bangladeshi's Muslims are listing themselves as Christians"?

[chackojoseph]

What religion are the people belonging to who are involved in multi million rupees scams?

Who is the head of UPA alliance?

Self introspection is not one of your strengths.

Who is the head of UPA alliance? You tell me.

[abhishek_sharma]

Who is the head of UPA alliance? You tell me.

jaane dijiye, see wiki page.

[chackojoseph]

Can you explain how this article supports your claim that "Its cleared that Bangladeshi's Muslims are listing themselves as Christians"?

Read it. its there.

chackojoseph ji,

what would you have liked to see here. Which angle or focus would have been of interest to you?

Like said before, this is not the top of the mind for me. I have already given broad based idea what church does right now. Technically speaking, I have put the other prespective. People are smart enough to make an informed descision.

I am not interested in the history because of some slelectivism being thrust upon the unsuspecting Indian masses. For example "Goa Inquisition." Who is asking for pardon? After college, I used to be in a newspaper which had huge circulation in Goa. For nearly 2 years, I have not seen anyone complaining. There are folks who wish to emigrate to portugal and a lot of them speak very highly of Portughese. Even searching on Internet, baring one Mr Kamat and another odd comment, all are copy paste articles and quote Mr Kamat. Goa Inquisition was horrible, but what Church states has been on record. I have not seen anyone asking Portughese or British government to apologise for their part in Indian history. Most of the british stooges were whom? Why these people were in high places after freedom? Why they still hild high places? Why no apologies for larger crimes against Indians by Indian Hindus, Muslims, Christians?

For majority of the History, it was Hindus themselves who were cohort with the impearilist. Some are arguing that "We have been colonised" so what we could do? Colonisation by Portughese did not hold much because of their behaviour. The british lasted so much time because they were not into force full conversion and the locals were in leagues with them. I am really thrilled of glorifying of Hindu rulers who fought the impearilists. Why haven't Hindus addressed the traitors among them? Why there is no Hindu apology on the excesses on Indians?

The crux of the problem is that, when such questions are asked, Hindus resent it and say that its minorities who are muddying the water. Look at the Indian spies who turned traitors. List them here, See waht religion they belong to? How many Christians you will find there? What religion are the people belonging to who are involved in multi million rupees scams?

All this time, I have been avoiding to point the finger back in order to not dilute my message on what christians do today. If I had done, folks would have jumped up and said "look" by attacking us and this is the usual minority trick.

Read Brahspati's post in "Christian Fundamentalism in west" and negi's in "Off topic thread." There are 2 in the discussion in very same forum.

jaane dijiye, see wiki page.

Prove she took the money.

[abhishek_sharma]

Read it. its there.

No, it is not there.

. After the meeting, Mr. Singh said given the ethnic demands and socio-cultural diversity in the North-Eastern states, it would be “unscientific” to make hasty generalisations. “We believe that the possibility of illegal Muslim migrants from Bangladesh reporting as Christians cannot be ruled out,” Singh said. There was every possibility of the migrants recording their religion as Christian as a survival strategy, he said, adding this needs to be looked into.

So it does not support your claim. Is that clear? It is one hypothesis.

[chackojoseph]

Read it. its there.

No, it is not there.

. After the meeting, Mr. Singh said given the ethnic demands and socio-cultural diversity in the North-Eastern states, it would be “unscientific” to make hasty generalisations. “We believe that the possibility of illegal Muslim migrants from Bangladesh reporting as Christians cannot be ruled out,” Singh said. There was every possibility of the migrants recording their religion as Christian as a survival strategy, he said, adding this needs to be looked into.

So it does not support your claim. Is that clear? It is one hypothesis.

So its there? Right?

Secondly, why are you running from the arguments on Hindu apology?

[abhishek_sharma]

So its there? Right?

Do you even understand what you are talking about? No evidence has been provided for that hypothesis.

Secondly, why are you running from the arguments on Hindu apology?

First, you should "quantify" your claims.

[JE Menon]

I have 15 books in PDF that is of specific interest on the subject of the ways in which Christianity was re-introduced into India by the British and other European colonial powers. These were accumulated over several years, mostly written in the past two centuries. Extremely valuable reading to get a sense of "the process" and the "state of mind", as it were. Several I've finished, a few are in process, and some I have yet to start reading. Very worthwhile, for those with a more than general interest in this subject - especially in terms of the background. Some of it makes for very enlightening reading.

You can download them all in a zip file (over 220MB) from here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=WM4DT1GB

I strongly recommend the Letters of Abbe Dubois on the state of Christianity in India and the replies to that in the form of essays, etc. Great reading material.

I have more more books broadly on the subject (i.e. which touches it in one way or another, and some exclusively on it) - maybe about two dozen more - again, some read... etc., etc. However, I am having some difficulty locating them in my totally disorganised folder forest... Will gradually group and upload those as well. Meanwhile, these will keep guys occupied for a couple of months at least (if y'all read as fast and fanatically as I do )...

__________________________

And while you are at it, here’s another book, fully online. "India & the Indians". BY EDWARD F. ELWIN
OF THE SOCIETY OF ST JOHN THE EVANGELIST, COWLEY

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/27886/27 ... 7886-h.htm

For those with iPads, it is a free download there as well. I’ve read it. It offers a very personal perspective from a priest. Quaint in parts, should be stomach churning (if you are an Indian) in others. Enjoy.

[chackojoseph]

So its there? Right?

Do you even understand what you are talking about? No evidence has been provided for that hypothesis.

Secondly, why are you running from the arguments on Hindu apology?

First, you should "quantify" your claims.

Ok, I was about to. Now, I will not. Let us find a middle ground. You show the Hindu apology and i will show the claims. I have answered many questions of yours. It's your turn

[abhishek_sharma]

Ok, I was about to. Now, I will not. Let us find a middle ground. You show the Hindu apology and i will show the claims. I have answered many questions of yours. It's your turn

Your argumentation style is very interesting. And I don't mean that in a good way.

By the way, you *did not* answer my question about how Bangladeshi Muslims are listing themselves as Christians. (I mean your answer does not entail your claim.)

Regarding apology: If you can show that a given community is more responsible than others for the state of the country, then they should offer an apology. That is a no-brainer. Otherwise, the apology has to be religion neutral. I am fairly certain that you are not going to understand this point.

[chackojoseph]

[quote="abhishek_sharma"]
Your argumentation style is very interesting. And I don't mean that in a good way.

By the way, you *did not* answer my question about how Bangladeshi Muslims are listing themselves as Christians.

Regarding apology: If you can show that a given community is more responsible than others for the state of the country, then they should offer an apology. That is a no-brainer. Otherwise, the apology has to be religion neutral. I am fairly certain that you are not going to understand this point.[/quote

You are now attacking me. Then you are running away from the arguments and then quizing me as if I am obliged to answer to you. I am not replying you you. I cannot waste my time with these kind of attitudes. ou must be having a lot of time in your hands.

[RajeshA]

-

[abhishek_sharma]

You are now attacking me. Then you are running away from the arguments and then quizing me as if I am obliged to answer to you. I am not replying you you. I cannot waste my time with these kind of attitudes. ou must be having a lot of time in your hands.

I am not attacking you. Let me explain.

You asked others to "quantify" their claims. Others have similar rights.

You wrote: "For majority of the History, it was Hindus themselves who were cohort with the impearilist." Are you claiming that non-Hindus were fighting against the imperialists? And why would Hindus sleep with the British? Are you saying that British policies were pro-Hindu and anti-Muslim/anti-Christian? Again, you should "quantify" your claims. If the pain/gain due to the imperial rule was uniformly distributed across all sections of the society, then the apology for any collaboration with the enemy must be religion neutral.

Given that you have displayed brusque manners in last 3-4 days, I am surprised that you are offended by my posts. I guess I should not insist that you provide satisfactory evidence for your claims. Only some of us have to carry the evidentiary burden.

[chackojoseph]

Corss post from OT thread,

Ok folks, time for me to wind up from the religion threads as mentioned that I have no interest beyond explaining what happens right now with Convesrion, Vandemataram, Church's legality, etc. I thank you for the debate. The subject is religion and there are high passions and feelings. To those whom I hurt, I regret. Those who understood and those who didn't "Thank You."

[RajeshA]

The focus of this thread is to study the threat to native cultures from all sources - religious proselytization, cultural marxism, cosmopolitanism, deracination. It is about looking into history, looking at current trends, looking at propaganda, looking at legal protections. It is about developing strategies on how to harden to native cultures to attrition, both in demography and in behavior.

In this context, proselytization in itself is not a threat. It is considered a threat when it tries to substantially alter the converts connection to and identification with his native culture and land.

[JE Menon]

>>In this context, proselytization in itself is not a threat. It is considered a threat when it tries to substantially alter the converts connection to and identification with his native culture and land.

That proselytization in itself is not a threat, is a debatable point. Debatable because the very objective of proselytization is to substantianally alter "the converts connection..." (unless of course your qualifier was an understandable diplomatic one).

Now, the problem such as it is, was considered sufficiently serious within the church itself because it led to a fairly significant downturn in relations between the Catholic and Orthodox churches. The problem of proselytization came immediately to light after the collapse of Communism in the former Soviet Bloc, So much so that several Orthodox church leaders suspended their participation in the ongoing dialogue between the two churches to resolve millenia old differences. The issue had to be resolved eventually by a series of meetings wherein both sides agreed to end proselytization amongst each others' flock, as it were. The outcome was a delicately worded document, which nevertheless contains the recognition that proselytization can be problematic. This was the Balamand Declaration, signed in June 1993. Allow me to quote (with bolding by me):

"Progressively, in the decades which followed these unions, missionary activity tended to include among its priorities the effort to convert other Christians, individually or in groups, so as "to bring them back" to one's own Church. In order to legitimize this tendency, a source of proselytism, the Catholic Church developed the theological vision according to which she presented herself as the only one to whom salvation was entrusted. As a reaction, the Orthodox Church, in turn, came to accept the same vision according to which only in her could salvation be found. To assure the salvation of "the separated brethren" it even happened that Christians were rebaptized and that certain requirements of the religious freedom of persons and of their act of faith were forgotten. This perspective was one to which that period showed little sensitivity".

Then, under a section titled "Practical Rules" to eliminate this problem, you will find the following:

"The first step to take is to put an end to everything that can foment division, contempt and hatred between the Churches...

Pastoral activity in the Catholic Church, Latin as well as Oriental, no longer aims at having the faithful of one Church pass over to the other; that is to say, it no longer aims at proselytizing among the Orthodox. It aims at answering the spiritual needs of its own faithful and it has no desire for expansion at the expense of the Orthodox Church...

In fact, religious liberty requires that, particularly in situations of conflict, the faithful are able to express their opinion and to decide without pressure from outside if they wish to be in communion either with the Orthodox Church or with the Catholic Church. Religious freedom would be violated when, under the cover of financial assistance, the faithful of one Church would be attracted to the other, by promises, for example, of education and material benefits that may be lacking in their own Church. In this context, it will be necessary that social assistance, as well as every form of philanthropic activity be organized with common agreement so as to avoid creating new suspicions.

...the necessary respect for christian freedom - one of the most precious gifts received from Christ - should not become an occasion for undertaking a pastoral project which may also involve the faithful of other Churches, without previous consultation with the pastors of these Churches...

...It is the task of those in charge of communities to assist their faithful to deepen their loyalty towards their own Church and towards its traditions and to teach them to avoid not only violence, be that physical or verbal, but also all that could lead to contempt for other Christians...

...Faith in sacramental reality implies a respect for the liturgical celebrations of the other Church.

...it is necessary that Catholic and Orthodox bishops of the same territory consult with each other before establishing Catholic pastoral projects which imply the creation of new structures in regions which traditionally form part of the jurisdiction of the Orthodox Church...

...By excluding for the future all proselytism and all desire for expansion by Catholics at the expense of the Orthodox Church, the commission hopes that it has overcome the obstacles..."

The entire document is available on the Vatican website, for those interested in reading it.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/ponti ... on_en.html

The alacrity with which the issue was addressed (the declaration was in 1993, less than 5 years after the collapse of Communism) suggests that there is great a sensitivity to the concerns addressed in the declaration within both churches to the issue involved - i.e. proselytization and the implications thereof.

However, this sensitivity does not to extend to other faiths. Therefore, if proselytization in itself can be a problem among various church denominations, where differences are often merely doctrinal, then how can one reasonably take a view that it is in itself not a problem in relationships with other faiths where the differences are more fundamental?

[RajeshA]

JE Menon saar,

if you read my wording, you would notice that I did not speak of either Islamic or Christian proselytization, but of proselytization in general, which can be conversion to another religion or conversion to another sect.

The generality of my statement was also to convey that Hindus too can proselytize, and that need not be considered wrong.

Furthermore it is natural that the belief system, which loses adherents, would protest and there may be turf wars, as you noted was the case between Catholics and Orthodox Churches. The fact that a Church or a Religious Order does not like poaching by others is understood. I am trying to propose, that native cultures need to be protected, whatever may be the nature of these native cultures, and is a position independent of any Religious Order. It is a universal value, I am trying to propose. And if it is a universal value, then Christianity and Islam have both been in violation of such a universal value, due to their predatory practices and their demand of the converts to leave all their cultural heritage behind.

[JE Menon]

>>if you read my wording, you would notice that I did not speak of either Islamic or Christian proselytization, but of proselytization in general...

Indeed, I noted that. There are only two aggressively proselytizing faiths at this point - Islam and Christianity. So the point is basically moot, when you consider that Islamic proselytization is not easily discovereable in India, where Hindus or Christians are concerned. However, I suspect you may have misunderstood my post.

My point is different, i.e. that (a) proselytization has been recognised as a problem within the Christian faith (only when it is among their sects); (b) that proselytization is inherently disruptive of the connection between the individual and the native culture; and (c) if proselytization can be considered verboten among sects of the church, why is it not so where other faiths are concerned?

In short, the principle of evangelism as a central tenet of the faith has been undermined by Catholic and Orthodox churches themselves via the Balamand Declaration. This cannot, therefore, be used as a very effective argument when it is raised as a "this is what the gospel of Matthew says" argument.

In principle, proselytization with the intention of "conversion" to an exclusivist absolute system is a threat to any people, their culture and land because it (a) signifies fundamental disregard and disrespect for the existing system as the starting point of the engagement; (b) if successful, results in the near total annihilation of the existing system (examples exist); and (c) total conversion of substantial populations rarely, if ever, occurs without considerable violence.

As far as I know, there is no such compulsion (and note the word, because in Islam and Christianity it is a compulsion) to proselytize and convert in Hinduism. I'm not saying that such practices are not possible within Hinduism, indeed certain groups do "convert" people to Hinduism, but ours is a faith which allows me to be a Hindu and an atheist if I wish.

>>I am trying to propose, that native cultures need to be protected, whatever may be the nature of these native cultures, and is a position independent of any Religious Order.

That is exactly what I am pointing out as well, but without conceding any ground to the idea that proselytization is not a problem. There is no need for that concession.