Poll: Reintegration of Pak & North-South relations in India

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 09:42

There used to be a huge North-South divide in India. It was very clear to my parents generation. Naipaul refers to it in his first India book (area of darkness). Gradually, along with secularism and the empowerment of previously weak communities, the North-South divide in India has been patched up fairly well. The North Indian calling a South Indian "Idli-Vada" or the South Indian calling the North Indian "Oy chapati!" is more of a joke than a derogatory or racist remark. However minor issues still exist on college campuses and other places. People of the North East particularly say they feel less discriminated in some parts of India than others.

It is clear from my interactions with Pakistanis that they retain a degree of color and language racism where darker and shorter people from the South or East of India are considered inferior by Pakistanis. Pakistanis nowadays tend to refer to the similarities they have with North Indians as they get their own Islamic asses buggered by their birathers in their own country.

If Pakistanis are granted free access into India and Pakistani boys and girls start entering Indian universities - what effect could this have on North South relations in India?

Re voting allowed.

Message edited to edit the secession option

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Sep 2011 09:50

we would have much larger problems to worry about than NS divide. in a few decades the divide would exist only as a memory of a past when communications were difficult.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 09:58

Rahul M wrote:we would have much larger problems to worry about than NS divide. in a few decades the divide would exist only as a memory of a past when communications were difficult.

Rahul I woud agree with this ONLY if we keep Pakistan away. If we allow in Pakis, we are not only bringing in the old Pakistaniyat issues, but the old caste and color issues that have carefully been weeded out of Indian society.

I feel that this was a good way to bring up some thorny issues related to bhai-bhai with shitland which seems to be the flavor of the season. Pakistanis are a sick, greedy racist society. It is all very well for Mani Shankar Aiyer to sit and blabber with some PakRAPE's - but it is a different matter to go ad actually infect yourself with gonorrhea by voluntarily rubbing the bugs on yourself.

There have to be some basic minimum criteria that Pakistanis must fulfil before they are allowed into India. Now which Indiot Political leader is talking about that?

Samudragupta · Post by **Samudragupta** » 20 Sep 2011 09:59

i suppose Pakistanis will be allowed to India only after specific re education of teir world view....

Upendra · Post by **Upendra** » 20 Sep 2011 10:02

choose the ----will lead to an eventual secession of the South

Its obviously clear if we allow purelanders in they will bring with them the death culture that today haunts pakistan.

I dont want to live among people who consider me wajib-ul-qatl and my women folk as "right hand possessions" meaning sex slaves. Secession from the Indian Union is preferable rather than be dead for being kafir, Isn't it?

If any of the university either willingly or under government pressure allow purelanders they should be ready to endure hostile retaliation , in whichever form it maybe, from the Indian public. After-all its our money that was used in establishing them and that pays their salary. If the universities adopt a hostile policy towards our well being then they will regret it.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 10:11

Poll edited to change the secession option.

The way I see it is like this. When you have Pakis migrating to India for education they will likely migrate to areas closer to Pakhanaland and set up their infections in areas closer to Pakhanaland. If Pakistani attitudes start affecting students from the South or East in the colleges of that area, those students will opt not to go there leading to a "cleansing" of those groups from those colleges in a few years. That in turn will attract more Pakistanis and the college will be making more donation money from Pakis and encourage that.

I don't see any way in which this can be stopped, but would be glad to hear other views.

ManishH · Post by **ManishH** » 20 Sep 2011 10:15

There's NO north-south divide in India. May still exist in minds of older generation - but not the younger ones.

Why mix two orthogonal issues in one poll ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 10:19

ManishH wrote:There's NO north-south divide in India. May still exist in minds of older generation - but not the younger ones.

Why mix two orthogonal issues in one poll ?

Ignorance of existing issues is not an excuse sir. You just don't know. In fact as a political game Pakistanis have sought to exploit every single fissure in India, religion, caste, color. You name it.

India has done everything to remove those fissures. For most part North South issues are minor. But not absent. Why imagine that those fissures cannot be reopened by Pakistanis. Choosing to be blind is not a choice that I agree with.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 20 Sep 2011 10:23

Actually the pilot episode may be ready and a close inspection should allow forum members to extrapolate the consequences on a much larger scale. A lot of Kashmiri muslims, mostly from Srinagar are studying/working in southern cities such as Bangalore and Chennai.

It would not be very unreasonable to assume that such blokes share a reasonable amount of their thought process with the TFTAs- considering that many of them are TFTAs themselves, some more than the others. How these interactions develop over a period of time should provide us some insights into the hypothetical scenario of Pakis being allowed to flood en masse into India.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 10:35

I think that political issues that divided India should not be forgotten on the excuse "I am too young to remember".

Pakistan itself was the result of a Muslim - non Muslim divide, which was a horrendous upheaval. Pakistan was like a piece of hard constipated shit that India shat out. With pain and blood.

What remained in India was a jati/community divide which has nearly been removed.

The other problem in India was the linguistic divide - and that was solved amicably by creating language based states -starting with Andhra Pradesh that was the first to demand and get a Telugu speaking state.

But the "Link language" (Hindi/English) caused some strife in India because Hindi was seen as being easier for the majority in the North. There were actually anti-Hindi riots in Tamil Nadu in the 60s - a time in which many people in the North were unable to see any difference between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka or Kerala. The "three language formula" followed in schools is a result of a compromise.

There are Indian laws against religion and caste discrimination. Even foreign nationals cannot indulge in that. But what about color and lingusitc discrimination. There is no law. There is no recognition even that Pakistanis are racist. After India shat out the turd of Pakistan, all other problems were solved fairly amicably. Now we are trying to reabsorb the shit which has not changed its society in any way. How can we be sure that they will not reintroduce problems of linguistic and color discrimination?

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 20 Sep 2011 10:51

shiv wrote:I think that political issues that divided India should not be forgotten on the excuse "I am too young to remember".

Pakistan itself was the result of a Muslim - non Muslim divide, which was a horrendous upheaval. Pakistan was like a piece of hard constipated shit that India shat out. With pain and blood.

What remained in India was a jati/community divide which has nearly been removed.

The other problem in India was the linguistic divide - and that was solved amicably by creating language based states -starting with Andhra Pradesh that was the first to demand and get a Telugu speaking state.

But the "Link language" (Hindi/English) caused some strife in India because Hindi was seen as being easier for the majority in the North. There were actually anti-Hindi riots in Tamil Nadu in the 60s - a time in which many people in the North were unable to see any difference between Tamil Nadu and Karnataka or Kerala. The "three language formula" followed in schools is a result of a compromise.

There are Indian laws against religion and caste discrimination. Even foreign nationals cannot indulge in that. But what about color and lingusitc discrimination. There is no law. There is no recognition even that Pakistanis are racist. After India shat out the turd of Pakistan, all other problems were solved fairly amicably. Now we are trying to reabsorb the shit which has not changed its society in any way. How can we be sure that they will not reintroduce problems of linguistic and color discrimination?

Shiv saar, spot on as usual. As you are much wiser and experienced than I, I would not dare assume that I know more or better. But with all due respect, it must be reiterated that a chain is only as string as its weakest link. The Pakis can talk about colour, jaat and what not. As long as their views find little echo amongst majority of Indians, they'll be isolated and branded as racists and scum that they are.

I believe your concern is that they may stoke the fires that we have managed to subdue but not yet put out completely, and thus, undermine all that we have achieved over the years. Well if that happens, the with all due respect we would deserve what we get. Anytime a Paki opens his mouth about colour, race, language etc. Indians must be firm in telling them where to get off. I know easier said than done, but I also know for one where I stand on this.

That said, I firmly oppose Paki scum being allowed to flood our educational institutes and sully the environment there.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 20 Sep 2011 10:59

IMHO North-South issues will be revived in the hypothetical scenario that Pakis were allowed to slither in amongst our youth amidst the aman o bhaichara hype, usually laced with a heavy parochial Punjoo accent only. I realized how little my generation of Indians understands of the extent of the problem in previous generations only when I started fraternizing with some Pakis, where the old stereotypes remain strong. It was a RoP congregation, mostly Pakis (majority Mohajirs), Arabs (Iraqi and Saudi), Iranis (who sort of kept apart from the rest), and a few Indian Moslems. Among the Indian Moslems, a couple were SDRE, the others TFTAish. The clear condescension shown towards the SDRE Indian Moslem was surprising to me, even if the condescension was "affectionate". They would parody his accent and language, and he would coyly ignore it. He was an enthusiastic devotee and always ready for service, very devotional and humble in his attitude and a regular attendee at worship. The TFTA Pakis and even Indians were not punctual attendees, were hardly devotional in temperament, though they would whip up a passion show on a couple of occasions a year. But they liked to be involved in an administrative capacity, contributing and controlling the moneybags and delegating actual work to the SDRE types. My observation was that the clear attitude and difference was stark, much much mroe than what I ever saw in India. Moreover, here was I, a non-Moslem, but I seemed to draw a more respectful and even envious (!!) attitude from the Pakis, simply because I look TFTA, and I knew both Urdu and Persian. In fact, the feeling of almost resentful envy was palpable in some cases, especially the more SDRE-looking Pakis. So in conclusion I feel that Pakiness is a few decades behind New India in terms of human-to-human communication and social attitudes and expectations. In addition to the north-south issues that India once faced, Paki's exposure and cultural subservience to Iranian and Arab peoples reinforces and multiplies the old colonial mentality in them. So before Pakis can be reintegrated into Indic society, they need to be re-educated and their sidekick/flagbearer mentality vis a vis Arabs/Persian/Turk culture needs to be piskologically lobotomized before they can regain their place as welcome members of the pan-Indic family of peoples.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 20 Sep 2011 11:15

shiv ji, not much to disagree here. but IMO if we do decide to something as stupid as bringing in the pakis there would have to be much larger problems than NS divide. it reminds me of the fable about a man who took a snake almost frozen to death inside his shirt to keep it warm. the first thing the snake did after coming o was deliver a lethal bite.

kumarn · Post by **kumarn** » 20 Sep 2011 12:54

^^^+1

If I am not mistaken, many Pakis think that country north of vindhayas is Hindustan and south is Deccan, which is a separate country from Hindustan. I have heard it first hand from Pakis in the US. Bringing them inside will bring back the N-S divide with a vengeance. But as RahulM say, it would be the least of the issues.

Anyway, I voted for secession. I would myself migrate to Bangalore or Chennai and hope my southern brothers take me in!

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 20 Sep 2011 13:02

There is no north south issue in India of a magnitude that can be influenced by pakis coming in. But yes if pakis form a part of north India i personally will like to stay away from that part of India as far as possible. If a lot of indians in the south make that decision then it may eventually lead to some kind of problem. Right now there is no problem if you ask me.

niran · Post by **niran** » 20 Sep 2011 13:09

kumarn wrote:
Anyway, I voted for secession. I would myself migrate to Bangalore or Chennai and hope my southern brothers take me in!

that is the majority plan, as soon as poaks enter folks will migrate to South if it means to live as a refuge in India so be it, and no, Punjab and aloo paratha imbibing
punjo ain't onlee the Narth.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 13:15

Which Pakistanis are we supposed to be integrating?

Sure I have spoken of integrating the Mohajirs, the Baloch, the Gilgitians, the Baltistanis, the Chitralis, etc. into India. But somehow I don't feel we are talking about these Pakistanis.

I suppose we are either talking wholesale of Pakistan, or about individual ethnicities like Pakjabis, Seraikis, Sindhis, and Pushtuns. For me, these are as of now beyond integration, and neither should we try!

So for me the question becomes mute! It is again like asking "when are you going to stop beating your wife"! An assumption is being made that integration of Pakistan is inevitable, and thus there will be a North-South Divide in India.

There is going to be no such divide. India is One! And the question of integrating Pakistan does not even arise to warrant such a question!

JMTs only!

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 13:40

ChandraV wrote:If Pakis come in (which will never happen, so the entire thing is hypothetical), relations will deteriorate, and might gradually lead to secession and breakup of the Indian union. This is the prime reason I always say that in the long term, partition was the best thing that happened to India.

A N-S issue still exists in India - those who say that it doesn't, are naive. There are still people who cannot distinguish Karnataka/TN/Kerala/Andhra, and everyone is a "Madrasi" for those. There are still people who consider everything North of the Vindhyas, whether Maharashtra, WB, UP or Gujarat, as "North India". It will take many more years for this issue to really go away, and that will require a lot of people to shed their arrogance and get their notions of India right.

Why is that a problem? There are different levels of education in India. At some level of education people are not aware of the demographic structure of their country. After all we are a diverse country.

Just because someone does not know how many states there are in India, or cannot differentiate the people by just looking at them, or cannot speak their language, cannot be used as a sign that the other has a problem living with someone from another region in the same country.

niran · Post by **niran** » 20 Sep 2011 13:45

^^^^ this divide still exists, granted, but not as wide as lets say me fathers generation
then it was like Madarasi are furriners and i still remember people going wide eyed on coming to know that Madarasi carried the same blue passport as themselves now it is where are you from? from South? at worst at best the name of States and it will go away with time.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 14:03

ChandraV wrote:An interesting nugget I came across somewhere, don't remember exactly where. A Paki was arguing/debating with some Indians, and was making the point that India is "not united". He claimed that he shared a room with an Indian Punjabi somewhere in Europe while they were studying. I believe the Indian Punjabi used to enjoy the Paki's company, and used to stay away from the rest of the "South Indian" crowd, and used to complain to the Paki, that South Indians were "aliens".

This is a very very probable incident, and I can bet anything that every word that the Paki says is the truth. I can share several other incidents of this kind. There are a lot of "North Indians" (pardon the word, for lack of a better term) who will rapidly get infected with various strains of Pakistaniyat, in case the scenario that Shiv outlines comes true. There is no way the nation can stay united in the current form if that happens. At the risk of repeating myself, I say again: partition was the best thing that happened to India.

There are two issues. One is language. It is true, that as a Punjabi, I could understand, or lets rather say communicate, with a Pakjabi more easily than with an Indian from some other region in India. So yes, abroad, Indian Punjabis and Pakjabis would come together because of commonality of language. It is true, that abroad, in an environment in which both Pakistanis and Indians can be present, and in fact, Indians from many different areas can be present, Indians from different regions may not so easily intermingle. The language barrier is too large. When one looks for circle of acquaintances in far off lands, one looks for people with whom one can speak the same mother tongue.

The question is not of ethnicity, but of language.

Somehow Indians need to get to a single language, and probably we should place our bets on Sanskrit. I am very much in favor that Sanskrit should become compulsory all over India from 1st class itself. And Tamils can come aboard, when they think they are ready. It would also help to integrate India's Northeast.

If Euro helped in European integration, Sanskrit can help in Indian integration.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 14:10

I haven't voted yet. My feeling is that Pakis coming in will make no difference. But the reason I started this poll is because - and let me reiterate this point

1. Pakis are openly racist. No one has called them out on this yet.
2. They are the most color conscious people on earth, preferring light over dark.

By "Pakis" I am referring to the class of shits who will actually come to India if the likes of Mani Snaker Aiyer have their way.

India settles these issues by consensus. Oh yes color consciousness is there. I know of a Kashmiri girl in Bangalore who has been told in no uncertain terms by her own family that she is not fair complexioned enough. And I know of my own relatives who comment at a wedding that the groom is handsome but the bride has "banna kammi" - literally - "less color" - but meaning that she is not fair complexioned enough. But this is never racist in India.

Pakis are racist. They will gang up with idiots in India and make life miserable fo at least a few people. If this happens in colleges - it will rapidly be checked. But these are issues that Indians do not address. We are so eager to roll back the clock with regard to people whose fathers and grandfathers murdered Hindus for being Hindu and are not keen enough to understand the smell of crap we want to swallow.

Pakistanis in India WILL pose some new issues. I bet my left ball that the Pakjabi story about the Indian who looked dwon on South Indians was a Paki concoction. But it shows the intent of trying bhaichara with those whom they feel they can "win over". Typically it will be someone who speak Punjabi or Urdu. And you can expect love jihad.

Any goddam Packee who is imported to India simply must be subject to import controls. This poll only goes to show that people recognise that there is a subject that India has handled well over the decades, minor as it may be. Why the heck should we allow Pakis into India without making everyone understand the fundamental truth about Pakistanis. they are racist dungheaps.

What i would like ot hear about is a college where a Paki joins and makes a derogatory reference to someone for speaking a different language or being of a color he does not like and that Pakis should be thrashed to within an inch of his life and thrown out. But this ain't gonna happen unless we are aware that teh Pakis is more likely to behave like this and people should be ready and waiting just to bash the Paki up. Should Indiots allow them into India for their beggary.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Sep 2011 14:12

India is getting more integrated,though there is still resentment in the south that the more hardworking "Madrasis"-as anyone south of the Vindhyas used to be called in the past (don't know if it still exists in full) by the northies,are being ripped off with their taxes used to subsidise the BIMARU states.These days with Nitsh going great guns in Bihar it isn't all that accurate,but you get the picture.There is genuine massive resentment at the manner in which the railways always end up with a northern RM and the south gets the debris.Some time ago a "new fast train" was started from a southie destination,but was in fact an old rake where the chief occupants were cockroaches! I do have a bone to pick with Mr.Modi and his "neither majority nor minority appeasement".We are a multi-racial nation,the Asian equiv. of Europe and India is so diverse with so many ethnic groups that in their wisdom,that the framers of our Constitution with the hindsight of Partition too,gave certain rights to minorities so that they could not be overwhelmed by the majority, but maintain their dignity,prosper and be committed patriots with the nation's interests guiding their destiny.I think that there are sufficient safeguards in the Constitution already,but tinkering with them would be disastrous,fruther "appeasement" like the attempt to stroke minority/ethnic "votebanks" over the long-delayed hangings of convicted death-row prisoners who have lost their appeal to the SC muddies the water.

If there is no "taking for granted" the South by the North,what we worry? Yet,there are external entities who are doing their best to see a North-South divide.The desire to manipulate Tamil sentiments is very,very strong.Hillary Clinton's visit to see the Queen of TN was not a courtesy call.It was to manipulate JJ into taling up the SL Tamil cause,cause trouble both for the Centre and the GOSL.It is also a fact that this is an objective of the ISI,a coincidence perhaps,meshing with US policy? Some do not believe in coincidences! During IG's time,there was an alleged attempt by the CIA to get the then Karunanaidhi govt. to secede.Plans were allegedly drawn up as to who the top posts would go to.An alleged insult to one of them saw the person allegedly fly to Delhi and spill the beans to Mrs. G. who dismissed the govt.! Events in Sri Lanka must never be seen in isolation from events in TN.To the foreign entities who want to "Balkanise" India,the south and Tamilnadu in particular is one of the most alluring prospects.The fact that TN also has a very high % of US EJ activity is also not another coincidence.EJ activity both in northern SL and TN is heavily sponsored by US fundamentalist groups who have a vested interest in the region,that meshes with US global strategies.

What may be needed to dilute any N-S grievance,is the break-up into smaller entities the largest states in the north and even some in the south like AP,Karnataka and TN.The latter two whose western regions appear to never get their due either from state or centre,so that better and faster development takes place with local matters and issues not having to always be decided at a capital some 300+ miles away! If you see the demands of the voters at any election,local issues always dominate .People want betterment of their day-to-day lives,are experiencing daily corruption from local babus and admins. and their political masters.What is most depressing is that when local matters are taken to court,their is a huge lack of local benches of either the HC or SC in districts and states to dispense with speedy justice.Judgements take years,decades and very often the parties die before a verdict is reached.The inequality of life,rampant corruption whose head remains in the capitals and paralysis of the loclal admins,having to receive their orders from above and afar, is one reason why desperate rural folk turn to the Naxals for support and protection when the current system gives them neither their rights nor justice..

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 14:15

ChandraV wrote:The problem is not with the uneducated masses. The problem is with the intellectual arrogance of some people belonging to the educated class. People who think that the nation belongs to them, and that people who don't speak their language are not Indians, or are "less Indian". People who ridicule and mock other languages, cultures and customs and consider them inferior to their own. People who stereotype their own countrymen and have a massive sense of entitlement and arrogance.

Not sure if discussing all this in detail is the purpose of this thread - but basically, it was hardly lack of education that I was talking about.

ChandraV ji,

in all large countries, there is regionalism. There is strong regional pride e.g. in USA, Germany and in India too. I am pretty sure it is like that in most countries.

What you speak of is indeed regionalism.

The problem in India could be a certain level of crudeness, where one just doesn't quite understand limits of how far one can go in expressing regional pride and what is simply cheapness and below the belt. Some have indeed made color as an issue through which to show regional pride, which I feel is a really poor choice as a measure of regional pride. This would require some maturing, but if it has indeed become an issue, I can only plead with those who are on the receiving end of such insinuations to develop a thicker skin, retort back more often and to develop their own narrative of black pride.

However this should not become an issue of division between North and South.

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 20 Sep 2011 15:08

I checked the fifth option, because I feel that integrating pakis into India is a pipe dream that is shared only among pakis and secularists, neither of which will be able to budge the middle class on this issue.

SandeepA · Post by **SandeepA** » 20 Sep 2011 15:58

I think that re-integration that Shiv-ji is talking about is because the pakis were once Bharatiyas. Unless the masses(on both sides of the border) are re-educated on what it means to be Bharatiya and why we need to be proud of the core cultural thread that binds us all this re-integration will be disastrous. Currently the situation is not ripe for this re-education what with all the pinko-EJ nexus ruling the media, the education system and the nation. So re-integration can be ruled out.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 20 Sep 2011 16:21

Shiv ji, there should be no integration without a complete and extensive re-education about the fundamentals of Indian society, indian law and indian norms. This should preferably be done in prokistan itself by vast number of indian teachers trained for this purpose and paid for by porkis aspiring to join india. An exam and an interview should follow and the number of porkis allowed in should be carefully titrated to allow for a quasi-equilibrium to exist in indian society at all times. I am sure that porkis coming in will cause small to large scale disturbances depending on their numbers, i have voted likewise.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 16:56

ManjaM wrote:Shiv ji, there should be no integration without a complete and extensive re-education about the fundamentals of Indian society, indian law and indian norms. This should preferably be done in prokistan itself by vast number of indian teachers trained for this purpose and paid for by porkis aspiring to join india. An exam and an interview should follow and the number of porkis allowed in should be carefully titrated to allow for a quasi-equilibrium to exist in indian society at all times. I am sure that porkis coming in will cause small to large scale disturbances depending on their numbers, i have voted likewise.

ManjaM ji,

such education or exams does not mean much! You must have heard of attendance and exam cheating! Even Western societies think on such lines for educating immigrants before giving them residency permits. All this is dry knowledge, multiple-choice questioning, something one has to do, but it does not really change the value systems, loyalty and identification of the people. For that one needs to do a much deeper form of soul cleansing, not possible through the modern methods of superficial knowledge and examination.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 17:37

ManjaM wrote:Shiv ji, there should be no integration without a complete and extensive re-education about the fundamentals of Indian society, indian law and indian norms.

Indian norms definitely. We are completely naive as a nation when it comes to demanding standards from others - so accustomed are we of placing ourselves on the bottom rung of everything.

You see, when westerners were initially coming into India there were (and there still are) guidelines about dress and behavior. Many of these guidelines were made by the visitors themselves to make it easier for their own compatriots to have an easier time in India. In many ways the act of doing that is a recognition of the fact that there may be cultural and behavioural differences.

You see Pakistanis are a unique set. Pakistanis see themselves as
1. Muslim and therefore superior to Indians
2. meat eating as opposed to Hindu vegetarian surrender monkeys
3. fair complexioned, tall and strong as opposed to weakling blackie Indians
4. If there is any similarity with Indians it is with North Indians

This much is obvious from Pakistani behavious and literature.

Indians are not taught to understand that Pakistanis see themselves as different. Indians still think of themselves as "same as Pakis". That allows Pakis to play with Indian idiocy and makes Indians suckers in countries outside India where Indian company and Indian society helps the racist Pakis to escape attention by dilution with a law abiding and decent Indian majority. India has provided cover for Pakistniyat ever since we shat out that nation. I need an icon of a brown man holding up his dhoti and shitting out a Pakistan map shaped turd. But I digress.

Unless we Indians understand that Pakistanis have been indoctrinated

1. to hate
2. to be different from Indians
3. to maintain all caste related barrier
4. to have color based and language based racial prejudices

- we are bound to assume by and large that the turds we allow into India as part of the new friendship are "just like us". I created this thread as a sort of red flag. A warning of the sort of nonsense we could face.

You would not normally pick up a turd and eat it. Not unless you were not even aware that it is a turd. . Sorry if I sound harsh - but I cannot bring myself to say anything nice about a nation of racist bigots who hate my people for just being themselves. We must prepare to teach Pakis to at least behave like pretend humans.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 17:45

Next time one meets a Paki, one should feign ignorance and ask him, "How come he doesn't look like the rat people?"

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 18:13

RajeshA wrote:Next time one meets a Paki, one should feign ignorance and ask him, "How come he doesn't look like the rat people?"

Or: Are you Muslim first or human first?

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 20 Sep 2011 18:26

The situation will go bad before it gets better.

My preference is that India reintegrates indian sub-continent in the following order. This allows it to achieve internal strength before accepting more challenging tasks.

1. PoK/NA - Low population density. Complexity score 8/10. But addresses quite a few geo-political issues. Strengthens India as JK issue is addressed.

2. North-East Afghanistan - Complexity score 6/10. Again low population density

3. Burma - Starting with economic integration first. Complexity score 5/10. Allows Burma to achieve economic prosperity while wiggling off from western pressures.

4. Nepal - When the time is right. Complexity score 3/10 when the iron is hot.

5. South-Afghanistan - When time is right. Complexity score 7/10.

6. Balochistan - Complexity score 5/10

7. Hindu majority areas of Sindh - Complexity score 5/10

8. Tibet - Complexity score - 8/10 due to china.

9. Bhutan - Complexity score - 2/10 (I am waiting till the end because this is the most friendly vote in UN. Perhaps we should recommend them to the non-perm UNSC seat).

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 18:35

shiv saar,

I actually appreciate that you created this thread. It is important that we highlight the poison that Pakistanis can inject into India's body politic, creating fissures in India itself. It is important to highlight that Indian Punjabis and some other North Indians are hung up on Pakistanis and some even dote on them, making them vulnerable to manipulation by Pakistanis. Pakistanis would play on the ego of the North Indians, telling them they are racially superior, and North Indians may buy that hook, line and sinker.

In order to decrease North Indians inclination to listen to Pakistani propaganda, I advocate that we go on a counter-offensive and in fact show Pakjabis as racially, culturally, intellectually and brawn-wise as inferior. We should think up of racial slurs for Pakistanis. As far as Pakistan is concerned, Indians should go on the offensive and make them feel like shitttttt! I don't mind being called a racist. Racial attacks is part and parcel of psy-ops!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 18:42

RajeshA wrote: We should think up of racial slurs for Pakistanis. As far as Pakistan is concerned, Indians should go on the offensive and make them feel like shitttttt! I don't mind being called a racist. Racial attacks is part and parcel of psy-ops!

Absolutely! Concur 400%.Indians are at the forefront of protecting Pakistanis and Pakistaniyat by acting as if they and we are similar and actually share something. A shared history is different. Heck I share history with bonobos that I prefer over Pakis. Indians confuse a shared history with "similarity". This is because of the unique "Let us suppress differences' education we get. That is fine within India - but Pakistanis are not Indian. Ask any Paki.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 18:54

List of Racial Slurs for Pakistanis:

Rat People
Fake Turks
Arabi Ball-Lickers
Padistani
Serial Losers
Islamozombies
Genetic Trash
Basturds with 3 Lost Fathers
Triply Conceived

and on and on ...

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 20 Sep 2011 18:59

^^

First post of Paki thread material

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 20 Sep 2011 19:06

RajeshA wrote:The question is not of ethnicity, but of language.

Somehow Indians need to get to a single language, and probably we should place our bets on Sanskrit. I am very much in favor that Sanskrit should become compulsory all over India from 1st class itself. And Tamils can come aboard, when they think they are ready. It would also help to integrate India's Northeast.

If Euro helped in European integration, Sanskrit can help in Indian integration.

Amen to that. "Neurolinguistic programming" is key to re-education.

ManjaM · Post by **ManjaM** » 20 Sep 2011 19:07

RajeshAji and Shiv ji
I am not talking about some 1 week refresher course or a simple computer based test like GRE. I am talking of an extensive re education that will last 2 years, where everything from history, geography, civics and also add some tech education combining with NIIT or Aptech or something like that. At the end of this course there ought to be an interview with a consular officer and whoever can land a job in india will be given work visa and PIO card. No business of selling your ancestral land in porkistan, moving to india and buying land here to become landlord, lording over SDRE workers. Porki workers are only invited, no badmaash landlords. Who dont cut it can go back for another 1 year of training or just go back to being porkis. Of course, all has to be 100% funded by porkis who are interested in becoming indians in the first place.

Porkis will create trouble if even a little sliver of self respect is left in them. Reconstruction and reintegration can only start when there is 100% vinaash of their former selves. Absolutely no way, they should be allowed in large numbers. Their numbers should be carefully titrated to allow our society to adjust and also attain some quasi static equilibrium at all times. If we can do this and make a bunch of people more indian than indian, then that will be a sweet revenge for all the macaulay dirt heaped on us. come to think of it if macaulaists can do it to us, no reason we cant do it to someone else.

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 19:24

ManjaM ji,

I am only in favor of allowing Pakistani women to migrate to India if they marry here! No males! Except Rich Landlords from Pakistan, who sell agricultural produce to India in sufficient quantities, so that they can spend their income here in India! Perhaps selected artists who still practice the ignored arts of the region, Historians specializing in pre-Islamic era, and a few liberals for propaganda sake.

And of course Dharmic minorities trapped in Pakistan.

Mohajirs, Baloch, Gilgitians, Baltistanis, Chitralis, only if they come with their lands!

All others should stew in their urine in Pakistan.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Sep 2011 19:29

This thread is not about TSP re-integration but more about 'North South " divide in Inida.

Hence I think this is an inappropriate thread.

Plan to close it.

ramana

RajeshA · Post by **RajeshA** » 20 Sep 2011 20:41

Perhaps this threat needs to be renamed into

"Pakistani Psy-Ops Threat & Indian Counter Psy-Ops"