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PostPosted: 11 Sep 2011 01:12 
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Can taller-than-Himalayas friend really save Pakistan?
Quote:
Weekly inflation up 16.3pc on higher food prices
Weekly inflation increased by 16.33 per cent during the week ended on Aug 30, over the corresponding period last year owing to high food and energy prices in the domestic market.
...
Inflation in the non-food category of SPI {Sensitive Price Index} appears to be driven by increase in prices of diesel, petrol, gas, CNG and power tariff rates, which translated into higher freight and production costs triggering inflation.
As a result price of 18 items witnessed an increase during the period under review over the last year.
Consequently, the SPI witnessed an increase of 14.24 and 14.11 per cent, respectively, for households in the two lower income brackets of up to Rs3, 000 and Rs3, 001 to Rs5, 000.
For households in the income brackets of Rs5,001 to 12,000, the increase in the SPI was in the range of 20.14 per cent, and for households in the income basket of over Rs12,000 the inflation registered a growth of 21.60 per cent over the same week
last year.
...

link


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2011 04:49 
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Location: Still in transit....
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/191 ... gines.html

Pak move to lease Indian engines challenged in court
Lahore, Sept 15 (PTI)
Quote:
Pakistan Railways is planning to lease 50 locomotives from India to overcome a crippling shortage of railway engines but the move has been challenged in court.

Lawyer Ansar Jaspal filed a petition in the Lahore High Court yesterday that said the federal government had decided to lease 50 locomotives from to improve train services.

He contended that the Risalpur factory had the capacity to manufacture 25 locomotives a year, and therefore, the government should use its own resources instead of seeking help from India.

He urged the court to restrain the government from leasing locomotives from India and to direct it to utilise national resources.

Moreover, he said, the Pakistan Railways should be ordered to make functional 450 locomotives that are currently out of order.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2011 07:25 
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Joined: 29 Jul 2003 11:31
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Pakistan's "economic wizards" :mrgreen:
Quote:
Pakistan has taken the decision to say ‘goodbye’ to the International Monetary Fund (IMF) for the time being after the existing $11.3 billion Standby Arrangement (SBA) programme ends on September 30, a senior official told reporters on Friday.

Top economic wizards were asked whether there was a possibility of plunging into loose fiscal policy in an election year that could pave the way of another severe crisis, and whether the timing of approaching the IMF might bring tough conditions then. They said Pakistan could not come out of the IMF programme over the medium term, so they would continue engagement with the Fund during this stopgap arrangement. Later, Minister for Finance Dr Hafeez Shaikh told reporters that Pakistan would continue engagement with the IMF and it was agreed that the Fund mission would hold Article IV (4) consultation with Islamabad authorities next month. :mrgreen:

However, in a background informal briefing, another top official of Gilani’s government told reporters economic wizards felt Pakistan’s current account deficit (CAD) would remain in the range of 1 to 2 percent of the GDP during the current financial year, adding that Pakistan would have to repay $1.2 billion to the IMF as principal and interest payments in two instalments but the country’s foreign currency reserves might decline in the range of $500 million to a maximum $2 billion compared to the existing level of over $17.5 billion.

Meanwhile Reuters reports that violence is driving away foreign investment:
Quote:
Foreign investment in Pakistan fell 76.9 percent in the first two months of the 2011/12 fiscal year (July-June) to $65.2 million due to a decrease in both direct and portfolio investment, the central bank said on Friday. FDI fell 39.9 percent in July-August 2011 to $112.4 million from $186.9 million in the same period last year, the State Bank of Pakistan said. Foreign portfolio investment fell 149.3 percent with outflows of $47.1 million in the first two months of the fiscal year 2011/12, compared with inflows of $95.6 million in the same period last year.

At least 400 people were killed in July and August in violence in the country's main commercial hub and investors have started shunning the country's main stock exchange.

Pakistan battered economy needed an International Monetary Fund (IMF) emergency loan package, agreed in November 2008, to help it avert a balance of payments crisis and shore up reserves. It received the fifth tranche of $1.13 billion of the $11 billion loan in May 2010.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2011 11:50 
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Image of flooded Sindh. Verily these people have been abandoned. Looks just as bad, even worse than last year.

Image

Check out the comparison images.

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Natura ... ?id=52103#


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2011 12:15 
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BRFite

Joined: 10 Aug 2006 00:49
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^^ This is all due to we creating dams in Kashmir blocking the water in summer creating draught in summer and releasing them in monsoon creating flooding in pukistan. Pukes are breed of idiots having answers ready on plate even before start of thought process. The worst thing is large number of idiotic nation believes what these small bunch of idiots say. Lol. Only one word: Allah dub deta he tab chappar phad ke deta hai.


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2011 13:37 
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ashish raval wrote:
^^ This is all due to we creating dams in Kashmir blocking the water in summer creating draught in summer and releasing them in monsoon creating flooding in pukistan. Pukes are breed of idiots having answers ready on plate even before start of thought process. The worst thing is large number of idiotic nation believes what these small bunch of idiots say. Lol. Only one word: Allah dub deta he tab chappar phad ke deta hai.


More on Indus water treaty on Bharat-Rakshak: The Indus Water Treaty by Subrahmanyam Sridhar.

From Water is an emotional issue for India and Pakistan, rediff.com 4th Aug, 2011:
Quote:
It took nine years of negotiations before the two nations signed the Indus Water Treaty in 1960 with assistance from the World Bank.

Under the IWT, Pakistan was allotted roughly 80 per cent of the river water of the Indus through the western tributaries (Jhelum, Chenab and Indus) while India was allotted the rest of the water via the eastern rivers (Ravi, Beas and Sutlej).
India was also given customary usage of water on the western rivers for agricultural purposes and for run-of-the-river electricity-generation projects.

Most of the disagreements between India and Pakistan concerning water arise over the western rivers of the Indus.

So there is the usual riot of emotions against India, not for what is of the pious, but for the waters belonging to India.

Quote:
The points of difference over the Kishanganga project are elaborated in much greater detail in the report but yes around 70-odd per cent of Pakistan's population and territory depends on the Indus River (the only other two rivers -- Makran and Karan provide an infinitesimal amount of water in Balochistan) and close to 95 per cent of the total water usage is dedicated to agriculture.

Quote:
Several other countries do not enjoy water agreements with one another let alone such a specific and 'water tight' treaty.

Quote:
Technological design in the 1960s might not have foreseen the modern designs of run-of-the-river projects today but there are clauses in the treaty that account for this lack of technological foresight and point towards 'sound and economical' design.

Once expanded and updated, the IWT can provide an even greater degree of depth and relevance to transboundary water agreements as a whole and can even be used to inform future water agreements amongst other nations.

Quote:
Development in Jammu and Kashmir has definitely been curtailed because of the restrictions placed on water development of the western rivers under the IWT and both Pakistan and India can do their part to alleviate these effects.

State business groups repeatedly tell the government of India that they could collect approximately $13 billion (about Rs 68,500 crore) from electricity exports if they were allowed to harness the full hydroelectric potential of the state (20,000 MW).

It is estimated that Jammu and Kashmir could have increased its area of irrigation by 2.47 lakh hectares more than its current irrigable land (2.3 lakh hectares) if it was allowed to utilise its water resources optimally.

Quote:
Low water supply in Pakistan is mainly a result of water conveyance losses.

According to Former Pakistani Foreign Minister S M Qureshi, in a very candid interview he gave to a Pakistani news channel in 2010, the "total average canal supplies in Pakistan are 104 million acre feet. However the water available at the farm gate is about 70 MAF. Where does the water go? It's not stolen in India, it's being wasted in Pakistan".


From Water as a weapon rediff.com, July 20, 2005
Quote:
In a brilliant exposition of the India-Pakistan crisis titled The final Settlement -- Restructuring India Pakistan Relations -- the Strategic Foresight Group, a Mumbai [ Images ] based think tank, asserts that the main reason behind Pakistan's demand for Kashmir has very little to do with sympathy for a political cause, and a lot more to do with water.

'In order to prevent a conflict between Punjab [ Images ] and Sindh, and to prevent a possible secession of Sindh and Balochistan, Pakistan needs physical control over the Chenab catchment region in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ]. It needs sites to build dams, to store, divert and regulate water flows. It also needs additional fertile land. Thus, Jammu and Kashmir is a source of Pakistan's water and food security. It is a real estate dispute for strategic reasons,' it says.

Besides, unlike in April 1948, when India stopped the supply of water to Pakistan from every canal flowing into Pakistan for a month, the Geneva Conventions and the Indus Water Treaty make such an action illegal today. And the water treaty does not allow either country to opt out unilaterally. In fact, it also explicitly prohibits linkage between the water issue and the general position of both parties on the Kashmir issue.


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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2011 12:05 
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BRFite

Joined: 17 Mar 2009 11:18
Posts: 255
Location: Australia
Pak Rupee is losing value against U.S.$. Four reasons are given:
1. Investors moving out of gold and into U.S.$
2. Seasonal demand for U.S.$ for performing Haj
3. Converting black money into dollars since old 500 Rupee notes are not going to be valid after Sept 30
4. Worsening relation of Pakistan with Washington
In the open market it was 89.20 Pak rupees to a dollar. Let us hope a century is reached very soon.
Quote:
Pak Rupee hits new low on high dollar demand
...
The dollar gained due to large payments in the recent weeks but the gain seems to have other reasons also including worsening relation of Pakistan with Washington,” said Atif Ahmed, a currency dealer in the inter-bank.
He said the fear was dominant in the rupee-dollar parity and it may continue unless Pakistan finds a way out from the US pressure and maintain a normal relation with Washington.
...

dawn_link


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PostPosted: 25 Sep 2011 02:34 
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Joined: 22 Dec 2008 06:36
Posts: 4916
Location: land of strip and search
Code:
[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=9062&Cat=13]Quitting IMF programme increases dollarisation[/url]

Quote:
Within seven days of finance minister Dr Hafeez A Sheikh’s announcement that Pakistan has decided to abandon the IMF’s current $11.3 billion programme with effect from September 30, the country’s public debt has increased by Rs60 billion due to increased dollarisation amid fears of rise in inflation in the days to come

Quote:
In June, the exchange rate was Rs86 to one US dollar, which now stands at Rs89 thus increasing the public debt by Rs180 billion

Quote:
Abandoning the IMF programme means less foreign inflows and the government will have to print more currency notes to bridge the budget deficit.

Quote:
The circular debt in the energy sector will also increase in the wake of increase in the price of imported furnace oil used for thermal power generation. This will push the cost of electricity further up and if the government does not increase the power tariff for political reasons, then it will be left with not option but to further increase the subsidy in the power sector. Over 70 percent electricity is generated by furnace oil-based power plants. Similarly, the cost of imported palm oil will also increase.

Quote:
Pakistan this year will have to import vegetables from India because of the damage caused to vegetables in Sindh by the recent floods. The imported vegetables will also cost more, as will be the raw material, which is imported for the export-oriented industry. As a result Pakistani products will become costlier and less competitive in international markets. This will reduce the volume of exports in 2011-12, which will weaken the balance of payment position

slowly surely and steadly before firing single bullet across the border, please roll over. :((


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PostPosted: 25 Sep 2011 02:42 
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My favorite thread on BR. It just keeps giving and giving! :mrgreen: :rotfl: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2011 17:04 
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>>slowly surely and steadly before firing single bullet across the border, please roll over.

Surely you mean please bend over....


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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2011 18:42 
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Joined: 16 May 2008 12:00
Posts: 6189
vishvak wrote:
ashish raval wrote:
^^ This is all due to we creating dams in Kashmir blocking the water in summer creating draught in summer and releasing them in monsoon creating flooding in pukistan. Pukes are breed of idiots having answers ready on plate even before start of thought process. The worst thing is large number of idiotic nation believes what these small bunch of idiots say. Lol. Only one word: Allah dub deta he tab chappar phad ke deta hai.


More on Indus water treaty on Bharat-Rakshak: The Indus Water Treaty by Subrahmanyam Sridhar.

From Water is an emotional issue for India and Pakistan, rediff.com 4th Aug, 2011:
Quote:
It took nine years of negotiations before the two nations signed the Indus Water Treaty in 1960 with assistance from the World Bank.

Under the IWT, Pakistan was allotted roughly 80 per cent of the river water of the Indus through the western tributaries (Jhelum, Chenab and Indus) while India was allotted the rest of the water via the eastern rivers (Ravi, Beas and Sutlej).
India was also given customary usage of water on the western rivers for agricultural purposes and for run-of-the-river electricity-generation projects.

Most of the disagreements between India and Pakistan concerning water arise over the western rivers of the Indus.

So there is the usual riot of emotions against India, not for what is of the pious, but for the waters belonging to India.

Quote:
The points of difference over the Kishanganga project are elaborated in much greater detail in the report but yes around 70-odd per cent of Pakistan's population and territory depends on the Indus River (the only other two rivers -- Makran and Karan provide an infinitesimal amount of water in Balochistan) and close to 95 per cent of the total water usage is dedicated to agriculture.

Quote:
Several other countries do not enjoy water agreements with one another let alone such a specific and 'water tight' treaty.

Quote:
Technological design in the 1960s might not have foreseen the modern designs of run-of-the-river projects today but there are clauses in the treaty that account for this lack of technological foresight and point towards 'sound and economical' design.

Once expanded and updated, the IWT can provide an even greater degree of depth and relevance to transboundary water agreements as a whole and can even be used to inform future water agreements amongst other nations.

Quote:
Development in Jammu and Kashmir has definitely been curtailed because of the restrictions placed on water development of the western rivers under the IWT and both Pakistan and India can do their part to alleviate these effects.

State business groups repeatedly tell the government of India that they could collect approximately $13 billion (about Rs 68,500 crore) from electricity exports if they were allowed to harness the full hydroelectric potential of the state (20,000 MW).

It is estimated that Jammu and Kashmir could have increased its area of irrigation by 2.47 lakh hectares more than its current irrigable land (2.3 lakh hectares) if it was allowed to utilise its water resources optimally.

Quote:
Low water supply in Pakistan is mainly a result of water conveyance losses.

According to Former Pakistani Foreign Minister S M Qureshi, in a very candid interview he gave to a Pakistani news channel in 2010, the "total average canal supplies in Pakistan are 104 million acre feet. However the water available at the farm gate is about 70 MAF. Where does the water go? It's not stolen in India, it's being wasted in Pakistan".


From Water as a weapon rediff.com, July 20, 2005
Quote:
In a brilliant exposition of the India-Pakistan crisis titled The final Settlement -- Restructuring India Pakistan Relations -- the Strategic Foresight Group, a Mumbai [ Images ] based think tank, asserts that the main reason behind Pakistan's demand for Kashmir has very little to do with sympathy for a political cause, and a lot more to do with water.

'In order to prevent a conflict between Punjab [ Images ] and Sindh, and to prevent a possible secession of Sindh and Balochistan, Pakistan needs physical control over the Chenab catchment region in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ]. It needs sites to build dams, to store, divert and regulate water flows. It also needs additional fertile land. Thus, Jammu and Kashmir is a source of Pakistan's water and food security. It is a real estate dispute for strategic reasons,' it says.

Besides, unlike in April 1948, when India stopped the supply of water to Pakistan from every canal flowing into Pakistan for a month, the Geneva Conventions and the Indus Water Treaty make such an action illegal today. And the water treaty does not allow either country to opt out unilaterally. In fact, it also explicitly prohibits linkage between the water issue and the general position of both parties on the Kashmir issue.



Time has come to pay back these !@#$@$$% in the very same coin.

We should orchestrate a similar campaign on the Indian side and plead our helplessness to help out the pakis in the face of " sustained public demand against / disapproval" of giving away water to the pakis.


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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2011 18:56 
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chetak wrote:
..and plead our helplessness to help out the pakis in the face of " sustained public demand against / disapproval" of giving away water to the pakis.

People in J&K need water and it is reported that many areas are not given enough water though much water flows to the oceans directly, indeed gives new meaning to the meaning of 'wasted' because not only it wastes growth opportunities of J&K but also wastes actual water downstream into the ocean.


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PostPosted: 26 Sep 2011 18:59 
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India should divert all the waters of the Western rivers and if Pakistan protest, they should first provide evidence, some proof in dossiers, that Indus ever flowed through Pakistan, which can then be deliberated in Indian courts and after 20 years the case can be thrown out for the lack of evidence. After all whole of Pakistan would be a desert and it would seem it had always been a desert!


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 15:55 
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Joined: 16 Mar 2006 15:40
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Hafeez Shaikh must be day dreaming. Why on earth would US companies invest in Pakistan while General Mike Mullen is threatening to strike on Pakistan.

Hafeez Shaikh upbeat on economy, sees consolidation ahead

Quote:
Dr Shaikh met with U.S. officials including Deputy Secretary Treasury Neal Wolin, Deputy Secretary of State Thomas Nides, USAID Chief Rajiv Shah and discussed bilateral economic cooperation with an emphasis on easing trade access for Pakistani products.

Dr Shaikh also interacted with Pakistan-US Business Council and invited American and Pakistani-American business leaders to make use of attractive investment opportunities existing in several sectors of the economy.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 16:05 
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Theo_Fidel wrote:
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/191047/pak-move-lease-indian-engines.html

Pak move to lease Indian engines challenged in court
Lahore, Sept 15 (PTI)
Quote:
Pakistan Railways is planning to lease 50 locomotives from India to overcome a crippling shortage of railway engines but the move has been challenged in court.

Lawyer Ansar Jaspal filed a petition in the Lahore High Court yesterday that said the federal government had decided to lease 50 locomotives from to improve train services.

He contended that the Risalpur factory had the capacity to manufacture 25 locomotives a year, and therefore, the government should use its own resources instead of seeking help from India.

He urged the court to restrain the government from leasing locomotives from India and to direct it to utilise national resources.

Moreover, he said, the Pakistan Railways should be ordered to make functional 450 locomotives that are currently out of order.


Thank god, which Idiot in MEA and Indian Railways approved this lease without a Debate in Parliament. These engines will then be used by Dawood Ibrahim for his businesses? It seems India has no shortage of traitors.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 16:16 
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Aditya_V wrote:

Thank god, which Idiot in MEA and Indian Railways approved this lease without a Debate in Parliament. These engines will then be used by Dawood Ibrahim for his businesses? It seems India has no shortage of traitors.

This argument is similar to the reason why India never exported arms to anyone - putting our arms industry into the lowest possible gear for decades when even Pakistan exports more than we do.

The word "traitor" is a strong word to use for a person who is trying to kill internal manufacture of locomotives in Pakistan while grabbing a market from China.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 16:26 
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shiv wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:

Thank god, which Idiot in MEA and Indian Railways approved this lease without a Debate in Parliament. These engines will then be used by Dawood Ibrahim for his businesses? It seems India has no shortage of traitors.

This argument is similar to the reason why India never exported arms to anyone - putting our arms industry into the lowest possible gear for decades when even Pakistan exports more than we do.

The word "traitor" is a strong word to use for a person who is trying to kill internal manufacture of locomotives in Pakistan while grabbing a market from China.


Ok a bit strong, Pakistan does not really Internally manufacture Engines- it is like JF_17 is fully Paki designed and manufactured aircraft. The Chinese engines would have been bought like in the past if they were reliable and money was there to pay for them. American engines would have been bought if there was funding for them. The only reason these Engines were to leased is Pakistani Railways is facing collapse and cancelling lots of trains, this was the only option. Such a lease is injecting life into an organisation which can be used for many anti-India activities and lack of it will be extremely harmful to Paki interests and economy.

No comparison with Indian arms exports, the same lobby which supports Trade with Pakistan always ensures we have to take Moral High ground when it comes to Arms Sales to Myanmar or a host of other Nations. We should rather get off the Moral high ground for countries who are not our enemies and be more hurtful to our enemies.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 16:34 
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Quote:


No comparison with Indian arms exports, the same lobby which supports Trade with Pakistan always ensures we have to take Moral High ground when it comes to Arms Sales to Myanmar or a host of other Nations. We should rather get off the Moral high ground for countries who are not our enemies and be more hurtful to our enemies.




I don't understand your objection to pak rail becoming dependent upon Yindia ... It is in fact a good thing...


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 16:56 
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gakakkad wrote:
Quote:


No comparison with Indian arms exports, the same lobby which supports Trade with Pakistan always ensures we have to take Moral High ground when it comes to Arms Sales to Myanmar or a host of other Nations. We should rather get off the Moral high ground for countries who are not our enemies and be more hurtful to our enemies.




I don't understand your objection to pak rail becoming dependent upon Yindia ... It is in fact a good thing...


Leasing 50 engines will not make them dependent on India, what they will do is lease the engines in times of need use it to buy time, acquire funds and buy Chinese locomotives and cancel the lease, or even better they will default on the lease and have a free lunch at our cost. They have not stopped Terrorism- do you think they are going to care a fig if we threaten them over lease payments, they will keep the engines and in the name of peace ask us to service those engines for free. If they can let them buy the engines on a Prepaid basis and take those engines.

Besides Pakistani Railways going out of operation is a very good thing for India, They are not leasing Engines because they a choice, they are doing it because they have no other choice.

It would be better for MEA babus to discuss with Pakistani railways in order to alleviate the funds crises is to ask them to dismantle the Lahore Karachi railway line and sell the steel as scrap to us. This would make them much more dependent on India.


P.S- More importantly I dont think IR has a surplus of Engines, do you think it is right to deprive Indians and help Pakis?


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 18:30 
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Aditya_V wrote:

P.S- More importantly I dont think IR has a surplus of Engines, do you think it is right to deprive Indians and help Pakis?

you have now stated two reasons why India should not export engines to Pakistan
1. Dawood would use the trains
2. India does not have enough engines.

You say that the same people who want to trade with Pakistan do not want to export arms. I don't know whether this is a fact or not, but I see it as a typical "moral objection" to say that India should not export engines to Pak because Dawood might use it. In what way is your moral objection to the export of engines superior or more acceptable than the "Do not export arms to anyone". One set of Indians want to curb export for one reason. A second set for some other reason, That's all. Who is the traitor exactly?


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 18:55 
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shiv wrote:
Aditya_V wrote:

P.S- More importantly I dont think IR has a surplus of Engines, do you think it is right to deprive Indians and help Pakis?

you have now stated two reasons why India should not export engines to Pakistan
1. Dawood would use the trains
2. India does not have enough engines.

You say that the same people who want to trade with Pakistan do not want to export arms. I don't know whether this is a fact or not, but I see it as a typical "moral objection" to say that India should not export engines to Pak because Dawood might use it. In what way is your moral objection to the export of engines superior or more acceptable than the "Do not export arms to anyone". One set of Indians want to curb export for one reason. A second set for some other reason, That's all. Who is the traitor exactly?


One set wants to curb exports to India's enemy at a time when the enemy after he in the last decade has explored all his choices (i.e American and Chinese Engines) failed and is looking for you to give a life line. The Other set wants exports to countries not inimical to India but would hurt Arms exporters and policies followed by foreign nations- there is whale of difference.

I have no Moral compulsions in selling weapons SE Asian, African, European, Central Asian, South American, Central American nations, but I don't want to help Pakistan at the time after exhausting its Chinese and American options it is now forced to cut back on its Railway services and it is using an opportunistic option. Then will have a free lunch in the name of a lease(this is not even an export where they pay upfront) where they use engines and do 1 of 2 things. 1) return them when they can afford to buy Chinese engines 2) Ask us to forget the engines and they use them happily and ask for more in the next crises. There is no need to help PR, we should encourage them to continue cancelling as many trains as possible.

Bringing exports to third party nations which has never been opposed by me but followed by MEA on the result of Bleeding Heart liberals (who are in many cases on rolls of foreign funded NGOs) is irrelevant to this discussion. In fact my question would after 50 years of following a policy of discouraging Indian Arms exports, a policy which has probably caused us billions why jump the gun and bend over backwards for the lease of 50 railway engines whose value cannot be much , when these engines a) can be better used within India as I dont see a surplus of engines or b) if you have a surplus export to anther country, surely most nations will pay higher rates for those engines than Bankcrupt Pakis.


Last edited by Aditya_V on 28 Sep 2011 19:04, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 19:03 
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Actually that is not how the market works.

Indian engines are perfectly modified and tuned to our particularly harsh conditions. They almost never break down and are very easy to repair/patch up. If Pak leases from India they will become increasingly reliant and dependent on our Engines. This creates a new market for our manufacturers making India strong.

Also the real problem with TSP rail is a lack of investment. Other than their trunk lines all the branch lines and interconnects have been abandoned and gradually scrapped. AFAIK they are the only large Railway that continues to shrink in the whole world. Our Engines will not make them profitable, just increasingly dependent on our technology. We have plenty of WDM-2/WDM-3's to spare and would even notice the lease of 50. We even might have a few WDM-4's that we can spare.

They will not be buying Chinese engines again. Ever.


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 19:12 
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Theo_Fidel wrote:
Actually that is not how the market works.

Indian engines are perfectly modified and tuned to our particularly harsh conditions. They almost never break down and are very easy to repair/patch up. If Pak leases from India they will become increasingly reliant and dependent on our Engines. This creates a new market for our manufacturers making India strong.

Also the real problem with TSP rail is a lack of investment. Other than their trunk lines all the branch lines and interconnects have been abandoned and gradually scrapped. AFAIK they are the only large Railway that continues to shrink in the whole world. Our Engines will not make them profitable, just increasingly dependent on our technology.

They will not be buying Chinese engines again. Ever.


Or if don't have engines to further shrink Pakistani Railways which would hurt them more strategically, what is going to be the revenue from the lease of 50 engines, and what happens if they refuse to pay for these Engines. Given the past record have to write off the Debts for the Lease and when they the money for H&D reasons the order will go CHinese or American companies irrespective of Indian Engines performance. (Remember the lesson Kashmiri Fruit Traders learnt the Hard way).

Market forces also mean you don't sell to Bankcrupt customers who have dodgy record for making payments. Companies have credit controllers to turn down such customers.

Be live me Theo , An entity run by the Pakistani Government is not a normal market, no matter how Indian engines perform, if they the cash to pay for thier leases for H&D reasons they will go for Chinese engines. This is only for a lifeline.

And again why help them when they are cancelling Train services all over the place which is bound lower H&D of rapes in eyes of the Aam Abdul. Do you expect Pakis to be grateful to us?


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 20:41 
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Aditya_V wrote:
Market forces also mean you don't sell to Bankcrupt customers who have dodgy record for making payments. Companies have credit controllers to turn down such customers.

Be live me Theo , An entity run by the Pakistani Government is not a normal market, no matter how Indian engines perform, if they the cash to pay for thier leases for H&D reasons they will go for Chinese engines. This is only for a lifeline.

And again why help them when they are cancelling Train services all over the place which is bound lower H&D of rapes in eyes of the Aam Abdul. Do you expect Pakis to be grateful to us?


Aditya there is a huge volume of unofficial trade between India and Pakistan going via third countries. Dawood makes his profits that way. Pakistan is not bankrupt. The government is bankrupt that is all. As long as they can pay up front for the locos (or in the form of mutually acceptable credits/barter) it would be better for us to sell it to them than all the excuses you are coming up with. I disagree, in any case.

India is constantly importing cement and onions from Pakistan and exporting machinery, tyres and medicines to Pakistan. Do you believe that Dawood is not using all that?


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PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 20:47 
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Learn from Massa and add hidden listening devices etc to monitor Poakworms.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 01:07 
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Selling Pakistan locomotives is simply very very wrong! There is some difference in selling them Tea and selling them Locomotives. Locomotives will allow their Railways infrastructure to survive, long enough to prosper some other day, or at least long enough to provide support in Pakistan's war efforts. We should try to facilitate the deterioration of Pakistani infrastructure even more and more quickly.

If India really wants to trade with Pakistan, how about encouraging groups to cut up all the rails in Pakistan and to sell them to India for scrap.

Let Pakistan Railways become obsolete as a company. Let some day there be no trains plying on Pakistani rails. That would bring their economy to a halt much more quickly, as even goods would not be transported from one place to another. All the produce of Pakjab would not be transported through Karachi to the outside world - no Basmati, no Mangoes. At least it would further reduce the foreign exchange Pakistan earns. That means less ME fuel for the economy, for the Army.

In fact lets pay people to blow up bridges in Pakistan, or better still to sell those bridges to India as scrap.

So lets sell Pakistan no rail locomotives and no trucks! But lets sell more tea to the Pakistanis, and more biscuits!

Whole economy of Pakistan should come to a standstill.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 01:45 
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This is a very good move to lease the Locos. Couple of factors.

Pak is the only country in the world apart from India to have the Broad gauge , if the system is allowed to die dragon would talk abt making that to Chinese standard gauge would imply a route via Karakorum to Gwador and a supply line cut between India to CAR/AFG.
The basic idea is to keep alive the railways and keep it running to a bare minimum.

All these engines need fuel which KSA controls.

This is a good idea i.e like
Liquid oxygen i.e Orygen use marne nahin dega and liquid use jeene nahin deega.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 01:57 
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Ananya wrote:
This is a very good move to lease the Locos. Couple of factors.

Pak is the only country in the world apart from India to have the Broad gauge , if the system is allowed to die dragon would talk abt making that to Chinese standard gauge would imply a route via Karakorum to Gwador and a supply line cut between India to CAR/AFG.
The basic idea is to keep alive the railways and keep it running to a bare minimum.

All these engines need fuel which KSA controls.

This is a good idea i.e like
Liquid oxygen i.e Orygen use marne nahin dega and liquid use jeene nahin deega.

:-?

What is wrong with marna?


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 02:38 
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Theo_Fidel wrote:
http://www.deccanherald.com/content/191047/pak-move-lease-indian-engines.html

Pak move to lease Indian engines challenged in court
Lahore, Sept 15 (PTI)
Quote:
He contended that the Risalpur factory had the capacity to manufacture 25 locomotives a year, and therefore, the government should use its own resources instead of seeking help from India.


A-o-A that factory is in a place that honors Taller than tallest friends!!

Thoughts: Despite baki best efforts (and they have awesome engineering skills), what if these WDM series engines won't break down as Theo-saar said and needs minimal spares? What about a scenario where they are used for baki military logistics? The past couple of years, they are transporting around their maal from east to west and vice-versa. Why aid them?


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 03:58 
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^^^ saar put gps transmitters in these locomotives. Create a whole map and pattern of movement and use it at will.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 04:54 
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suryag wrote:
^^^ saar put gps transmitters in these locomotives. Create a whole map and pattern of movement and use it at will.


Sell the loco along with gearbox oil made in India and demand that any change of oil with render the service contracts useless. Charge a bomb for that oil which will have a secret mix of vanaspati. There are nations with spare industrial capacity sitting idle - particularly in Europe. They will pick up an order like this in a trice.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 10:28 
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shiv wrote:
suryag wrote:
^^^ saar put gps transmitters in these locomotives. Create a whole map and pattern of movement and use it at will.


Sell the loco along with gearbox oil made in India and demand that any change of oil with render the service contracts useless. Charge a bomb for that oil which will have a secret mix of vanaspati. There are nations with spare industrial capacity sitting idle - particularly in Europe. They will pick up an order like this in a trice.


If we are going to LEASE, atleast put GPS transmitters combatable with IAF Bombs intergral to these engines., otherwise they should not work.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 11:02 
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In a all out war situation using the railways for large amounts of men/material movement would be strategically suicidal. Most of TSP railways are less than 100-200 kms from the border, 3-4 hours away from a quick maneuver.

In any case it appears the opposition to leasing from India is quite fierce. If they ask for them we should lease at the right price.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 13:41 
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Theo_Fidel wrote:
In any case it appears the opposition to leasing from India is quite fierce. If they ask for them we should lease at the right price.


That is why has there no Public Internal Indian debate on this, let parliament vote for it or against it.Being Pakistan and something as sensitive as Pakistani Railways it is a major foreign policy decision and must be debated in public by the representatives of the Public so we understand who stands where.

Again on India dropping objections, why this silent silent mode, why cant we have a public debate on impact on Indian textile industry before helping our enemy neighbour.

They will keep worshiping Jihadis, planning and carrying out more attacks on the Indian public and we will keep helping them. They Hippocracy of this is unbelievable. Pakistan is one nation which will never be grateful for help given, wish MEA understood.


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 14:16 
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I for one approve a sale / leasing of locos to the TSPR. As long as the payment for it is made in advance. No payment no locos. India must earn profits from the TSP. While making sure that no credit facility is provided to the TSP.


Rant on

Who I am Kidding, the WKKs of the GOi will provide the locos and the after sales service free of cost while providing the fuel and lubrication as a bonus.

Rant off


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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 23:25 
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From Business Recorder new story(posting in full)
Tata Communications extends global IP/VPN service into Pakistan
Quote:
Tuesday, 27 September 2011 17:26
MUMBAI: India's Tata Communications has become one of few global carriers to extend its Global IP/ VPN service offerings into Pakistan, through collaboration with Multinet Pakistan, an operating company of Axiata and provider of data and voice communications. The collaboration now makes Tata Communications the largest global Ethernet provider in the world.

The partnership will enable enterprise customers to enjoy first commercially available Ethernet services in Pakistan, as well as global Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) communications services, through a point of presence (PoP) deployment in Karachi. The company made this announcement during trading hours on Tuesday.


Copyright PPI (Pakistan Press International), 2011


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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2011 11:38 
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No roadmap to stop rupee depreciation

Pakistan Rupee is expected to reach Rs. 95 against US dollar. It has already gone upto Rs. 89 from Rs. 60 during previous government.


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2011 01:47 
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Theo_Fidel wrote:
In a all out war situation using the railways for large amounts of men/material movement would be strategically suicidal. Most of TSP railways are less than 100-200 kms from the border, 3-4 hours away from a quick maneuver.


Lease/sell them with a built in kill switch. Once troops and tanks are loaded we can ensure they stay put. Will also prevent them from attempting their patented maneuver...downhill skiing.


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2011 04:43 
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Shankas wrote:
Lease/sell them with a built in kill switch.


This would be bad for business. This is one reason no one trusts Amerika bahadur. Either you sell it or you don't. Don't try to be too clever.

The trick is to maintain overwhelming superiority while selling such equipment.


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PostPosted: 02 Oct 2011 05:08 
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What ? Tarrel than Mountain Friend's locos and rolling stock are basically crap and break down more often than Sienna Miller in "South Asia "? Who would've thunk that ? :rotfl:

Well, Pakis, Pakis.. when will they learn? Like the good song says, "Aulaad Maan Jao, aur khareed lo Hindustani" !

Anyways, someone said, that "Broad Gauge is present only in India, Pakistan ( and Bangladesh)" .. Not true. Check out the Spanish / Portugese Iberian gauge. That too is broad gauge as in India. and the Spanish are world leaders in variable gauge rolling stock to go between their Iberian gauge and other gauge.

The problem really is that the Chinese "loading gauge" is different. Chinese trains are "fatter" than the Indian standard , even when riding on narrower gauge and the Pakis went up going with jack hammers on their railway platforms and other infra to get the Chinese coaches to work on their system (done during Musharraf's time , talk about "Military Intelligence") , rather than telling the Chinese to build trains to the Paki gauge (sort of like cutting the body to fit the shirt and not the other way around).. And now that the Chinese trains are junk, what are the Pakis going to do ? Start building back those platform ends they shaved off ? :lol: :lol: :lol: .. Idiots!


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