Bharat Rakshak

shiv ji, I beg to differ on the what were the women doing hypothesis. non muslim women (not only from India) were taken as sex slaves and had a status lower than even muslim women, which is quite low to begin with and at par with domestic animals. any children they bore were not raised by the mothers. I am afraid we are applying our modern ideas to a society that played outside those rules.

So if a huge number of slaves was taken there should be some of trail/ evidence of where they went and how far. My guess is that Pakistan is as far as they got, mostly. Pakistan is a modern day remnant of the kidnapping, rape and abduction of islamic hordes. No need to go searching for kidnapped Indians in central Asia - they are haunting us right next door. They look like us. Smell like us but imagine that they are like their nameless rapine fathers. They have inherited their mothers' language and culture and the religion of their looting fathers.

@shiv please look at historical record of african slaves transported across atlantic ocean to north america (so called middle passage). A lot of research is available on this. The numbers, forced mass deprivation of language and cultural identity, as well as "wastage" in the journey all suggest that there is nothing incongruous about large scale enslavement and transportation that are alleged to have happened in the subcontinent.

As a matter of interest there is a direct historical link between arab slaver activity in africa and slave trade by europeans. I suspect the technology of large scale slavery was adapted by post dark-ages europe from the muslim world along with a lot of other stuff.

Shiv, if you look at US, there is very little evidence of any african culture/practises remaining now. Most are christians, speak english and their culture has been shaped more by their experiences as slaves rather than what they brought over from Africa.

Kaffir alleles? wtf are "kaffir alleles"?

As for allele, you may start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allele

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_genetics

Now you may have your pet theory but there is plenty of evidence contradicting it and instead of going on about it like a broken record, may be you should try reading the paper A_Gupta has provided as a reference.

shiv ji, distinctive but not unmistakably african in any way..

We don't know for a fact that some Indic trace remnants don't exist in pockets of muslim lands. The whole place is a cesspit of barbarity and ignorance; do you think they would be studiously researching such things?

Which is the part that describes "Kaffir alleles"?

It t is so easy to get people's knickers in a twist by questioning their own pet beliefs. I see poeple instantly playing victim and saying "You are like Pakis and Islampasand people and are a denier of Hindu genocide". Balderdash. This is the broken record excuse that i am exposed to by people who post nonsense and are unable answer simple questions posed to them and think that linguistic aggression is a good way of covering up holes in knowledge.

Look up
The Indian diaspora in Central Asia and its trade, 1550-1900
By Scott Cameron Levi

e.g., in books.google.com

for some accounts of the number of Indians transported into slavery in Central Asia.

The Indian diaspora in Central Asia and its trade, 1550-1900

Scott Cameron Levi
2002 - 319 pages
Based on original research in the archives of Uzbekistan, this book surveys the early modern commercial relations between India and Central Asia and examines the emergence, economic function, social organization, and decline of an Indian merchant diaspora. This diaspora consisted of tens of thousands of Indian merchant-moneylenders living in communities dispersed across Central Asia, Afghanistan, Iran, the Caucasus and much of Russia.The book illustrates how these diaspora merchants utilized their position as agents of heavily capitalized, caste-based Indian family firms to finance transregional trade and complex systems of rural credit and industrial production. It concludes with an analysis of the Russian colonial administration's policies toward the Indian merchants, and explains how these policies brought about the decline of the diaspora in Central Asia.

Were it not for the...the author's repetitive expressions of astonishment at the Indians' commercial vitality and dominance of the moneylending business, the Indian diaspora communities in Central Asia might be dismissed as a historical anomaly of litle significance"

The only one's who has his panties in a twist is you, you first made a statement to which many members have presented contrary evidence and instead of reading or refuting the evidence you go on spouting hot air.

Good going "Dr" shiv.

The lahori logic is quiet strong with you.

After I read the Parshuram ji , SBajwaji and others wrt Islamist abduction of Kafir women , my blood is boiling.I feel like catching hold of an islamist and then smashing his head with a boulder.I just cant imagine how much of history has been suppressed by our leftist historians.

To all the Pakis who are reading this(Paklurks) , we will avenge all the wrongs committed by your ancestors in time.

The islamic memes of Pakistanis cause them to deny that anything wrong ever occurred to their ancestors. But Pakis may have Gengis Khan's genes, but they certainly retain Indic culture which the invaders could not wipe out despite the fact that Pakistan itself is the living example of 1000 years of subjugation. Not some other parts of India.

1000 years of subjugation is true. But it was not Pakis subjugating India. It was the area called Pakistan that has seen 1000 years of subjugation. And in those 1000 years the language cuisine and music and other Indic cultural icons were not expunged.

And now our second question - what did the victors do with slaves captured in large crowds? In the days of the early invaders like Muhammad bin Qasim and Mahmud Ghaznavi, they were mostly sold in the Slave Markets that had come up throughout the Muslim dominated towns and cities.

The rules of the auction stipulated that the slaves would be sold as "families" - defined as a husband and wife and any offspring. However, there was no guarantee that this rule would be adhered to in all cases.

'Elisha,' chattel No. 5 in the catalogue, had taken a fancy to a benevolent looking middle-aged gentleman, who was inspecting the stock, and thus used his powers of persuasion to induce the benevolent man to purchase him, with his wife, boy and girl, Molly, Israel and Sevanda, chattels Nos. 6, 7 and 8. The earnestness with which the poor fellow pressed his suit, knowing, as he did, that perhaps the happiness of his whole life depended on his success, was interesting, and the arguments he used were most pathetic. He made no appeal to the feelings of the buyer; he rested no hope on his charity and kindness, but only strove to show how well worth his dollars were the bone and blood he was entreating him to buy.

One small issue Shiv.

Way back then most of present day Pakistan was a desert. Before irrigation & all. The population would have been in the 2-3 million range at most. Something like 500,000 slaves showing up would be a big event genetically & population wise.

One small issue Shiv.

Way back then most of present day Pakistan was a desert. Before irrigation & all. The population would have been in the 2-3 million range at most. Something like 500,000 slaves showing up would be a big event genetically & population wise.

This beats me completely :

How come bamian buddha and other buddhist statues ets survived till 21st century in the land of ghaznavids and ghurids

This beats me completely :

How come bamian buddha and other buddhist statues ets survived till 21st century in the land of ghaznavids and ghurids

Swamy, you have not read it yourself which makes your oral frothing even more fruitless. I have already posted excerpts from that source. The Indians were traders and money lenders. If you can get beyond the need to attempt worthless personal barbs and actually point out where that ref speaks of Indian slave genes I will actually thank you rather than laugh at your barely suppressed rage. A lot of people get angry with me on this forum for things I say because I say things that are bound to make people angry. Mostly they are not personal - but people do take them personally. But I enjoy it immensely when people tie themselves up in knots in anger and will do little to let them off unless they make a credible point.

I am sure you can actually dig out references to "Kaffir alleles" - or at least "Indian genes" in central Asia from slave trade. If you produce any references I will read them. You have not managed to do that except for getting angry at being told that "kaffir allele" is an absolutely stupid "I've got a chip on my shoulder" type of expression that is asking to be trashed by even a half-literate ally of Romila Thapar. Why post a link that is begging to be trashed and then get angry when it is trashed? Above all why take it personally? Are you the author? Why not post the info that you believe is available as quotes?

Demand was especially high for skilled slaves, and India's comparatively larger and more advanced textile industry
and agricultural production, and its magnificent imperial architecture, demonstrated to its neighbours that skilled labour was abundant in the subcontinent.8

Because of their identification in Muslim societies as kafirs, "non-believers", Hindus were especially in demand in the early modern Central Asian slave markets.12 They were by no means, however,
the only ethnic or religious group present in large numbers.

Despite ample evidence demonstrating the presence of a considerable population of Indian slaves in medieval and
early modern Central Asia, this aspect of the Central Asian slave trade has received much less attention. A
survey of available sources reveals that a Bukharan waqfnama (a letter indicating a religious endowment) written in 1326 repeatedly lists Indian slaves together with slaves from various other parts of Asia.15 A similar document dating to 1489 from the archive of the great Naqshbandi Sheikh Khwaja Ahrar (1404-90) mentions a group of Indian slaves
working as agricultural labourers and artisans on an estate near Bukhara.16 Furthermore, the presence of Hindu slaves even among the Turkic pastoral groups in early modern Central Asia is mentioned in an account of the
Uzbek ruler Shibani Khan's victory over the Qazaq ruler Tanish Sultan.17 According to this account, in the winter of 1509-10, a fourteen-year-old Indian slave escaped from his cruel master in a Qazaq qishlaq (winter encampment) near the city of Turkestan and, while wandering through the steppe, fortuitously came across the encampment of Shibani Khan and informed the Uzbeks of the location of the enemy Qazaq qishlaq...

While travelling from Lahore to Kabul in 1581 the Portuguese Jesuit missionary Father Antonio Monserrate reported that one tribe in the Punjab, identified as the "Gaccares" (Ghakkars), had made mediating the trade of Indian slaves for Central Asian ("Turki) horses such a regular practice that they had even become associated with the proverb, "slaves from India, horses from Parthia".19 The Central Asian slave markets swelled with Indians following Shah Jahan's aborted annexation of Balkh in 1646-47...

Nearly a century earlier, Babur, the founder of the Mughal Empire, recorded coming across a colony of 200-300 households of Indian slaves forced by a descendant of Timur to relocate from near Multan to the banks of the Baran river, a tributary of the Kabul river in Afghanistan, where they were engaged in the
business of catching birds.27

While it is important to note that Firishta's history was written several centuries after the Ghaznavid period, his assertions are supported by the reports of contemporary observers. For example, in his early eventh-century
Tarikh al-Yamini, the Arab historian al-'Utbi recorded that in iooi the armies of Mahmud of Ghazna conquered
Peshawar and Waihand, "in the midst of the land of Hindustan", and captured some 100,000 youths.

Later, during the Delhi Sultanate period (1206-1555), references to the abundant availability of Indian slaves at low prices are common. This should be attributed primarily to the vast human resources of India, which boasted a much larger and denser population than its neighbours to the north and west.32

i think genetic studies show that they are almost identical to SDRE's with very limited TFTA infusions
so their elites are rape victim descendants and their mango's are terror victim convert descendants suffering from uber stockholm syndrome

Alxander could be a demonic man with 2 horns on his forehead but he was a great strategist. He knew where to fight. He saw civilizational fault lines clearly. This is one talent that came to him naturally. Even today, international boundaries run through 80% of places where Alexander chose to fight. This was a BIG part of his success.

Another under reported event in Alexander's campaign in India is refusal of Persian troops to engage the Indians in direct fight. As far as they were concerned safety of Alexander was their sole duty. Fight was pretty much left to Macedonians.

It would be a good game to catch some Paki suckers, make them pay for the blood test and find such genes so they can at once be proud of their Ayrab lineage while understanding that they are basically the product of rape. Need to watch out for Paki suckers in the news media who claim direct lineage to the past like this - so we can give them a history lesson of how SDRE genes got mixed up with the genes they carry.

I only posted parts, people interested can access the paper and read it for themselves instead of hot air from certain "drs" on BR.