Bharat Rakshak

Consortium of Indian Defence Websites
It is currently 29 May 2016 23:31

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours




Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 4006 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56 ... 101  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2011 11:54 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 2155
Location: NullPointerException
shiv wrote:
Rahul M wrote:
Pandav, while we appreciate your efforts I would rather we don't start comparison in India threads because the chances of a pi$$ing contest are high. the newb/misc thread or internation aviation thread is a better place.


Pandav - this is a very valid point that people don't seem to learn especially because it is encouraged on Paki forums.

Let me ask you a basic question. If an Indian LCH were to attack Chinese land forces how would the Chinese respond. I will make it MCQ for convenience and answer it as well. Please state if you have any quibbles.

Indian LCH attacks Chinese land forces. China's response would be
1. Run away.
2. Send two WZ 10s
3. Try and shoot the LCH down with ground to air defences.

The Chinese will not run away. Sending to WZ10s is possible but fraught with danger to them as they enter the battle zone. It will be several minutes before they can fly in even if they have AAMs and the LCH may finish its job and go away by the time they arrive. The Chinese will try and shoot the LCH down real soon using AA fire and SAMs. So the Chinese "reply" to LCH wil be anti-aircraft fire. Not WZ10

Similarly the Indian response to an attack by Chinese WZ10 will be SAMs and AA fire. Not LCH

If WZ10 is not the correct response to LCH, and LCH is not the correct response to WZ10 - why compare them? Now instead of LCH suppose India sends two Mi 35 or maybe in future two Apaches/Mi 28. Will the Chinese respond with six WZ10? No they will respond instantly with ground fire and may send missile and air attacks to take out the Indian helicopter base.

Unless you are a salesman who is selling attack helicopters and want a buyer to have all the specs of each helo readily visible a comparison chart such as the one you have made, such a chart is is useless. Sorry if I am being harsh. Too many enthusiasts spend too much time comparing missiles or planes or helos as if helos are needed against other helos or surface to surface missiles needed against other surface to surface missiles. No. That is not how things work. The fact that the media also make such comparisons (India Today/Outlook etc) only shows the ignorance of the people who write those articles.

Comparisons of "My d**k is bigger/longer/harder" are less valid than where I can actually use mine, long or short, hard or soft.


Comparison is useful for psyops reasons and also to highlight technological advances and capabilities compared to the enemy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2011 13:52 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21
Posts: 4033
shiv wrote:
Rahul M wrote:
Pandav, while we appreciate your efforts I would rather we don't start comparison in India threads because the chances of a pi$$ing contest are high. the newb/misc thread or internation aviation thread is a better place.


Pandav - this is a very valid point that people don't seem to learn especially because it is encouraged on Paki forums.

Let me ask you a basic question. If an Indian LCH were to attack Chinese land forces how would the Chinese respond. I will make it MCQ for convenience and answer it as well. Please state if you have any quibbles.

Indian LCH attacks Chinese land forces. China's response would be
1. Run away.
2. Send two WZ 10s
3. Try and shoot the LCH down with ground to air defences.

The Chinese will not run away. Sending to WZ10s is possible but fraught with danger to them as they enter the battle zone. It will be several minutes before they can fly in even if they have AAMs and the LCH may finish its job and go away by the time they arrive. The Chinese will try and shoot the LCH down real soon using AA fire and SAMs. So the Chinese "reply" to LCH wil be anti-aircraft fire. Not WZ10

Similarly the Indian response to an attack by Chinese WZ10 will be SAMs and AA fire. Not LCH

If WZ10 is not the correct response to LCH, and LCH is not the correct response to WZ10 - why compare them? Now instead of LCH suppose India sends two Mi 35 or maybe in future two Apaches/Mi 28. Will the Chinese respond with six WZ10? No they will respond instantly with ground fire and may send missile and air attacks to take out the Indian helicopter base.

Unless you are a salesman who is selling attack helicopters and want a buyer to have all the specs of each helo readily visible a comparison chart such as the one you have made, such a chart is is useless. Sorry if I am being harsh. Too many enthusiasts spend too much time comparing missiles or planes or helos as if helos are needed against other helos or surface to surface missiles needed against other surface to surface missiles. No. That is not how things work. The fact that the media also make such comparisons (India Today/Outlook etc) only shows the ignorance of the people who write those articles.

Comparisons of "My d**k is bigger/longer/harder" are less valid than where I can actually use mine, long or short, hard or soft.


Shivji, I completely agree to your point that if one wants to compare who would have the upper hand in battle, one should compare the weapons and anti-weapons and not weapon vs weapon.

Having said that, it is also a competition to build the most effective weapon for a given objective ... In that respect, IMHO there is no flaw in saying you, me, tom, dick and harry set out to build a weapon for a purpose ... Now let us compare who has made the best one!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2011 14:33 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 28467
Location: Sanatana Dharma: The binding force of South Asia
indranilroy wrote:
In that respect, IMHO there is no flaw in saying you, me, tom, dick and harry set out to build a weapon for a purpose ... Now let us compare who has made the best one!

In fact this "comparison of who has the longest best is the problem. It is the problem because specifications are easy to compare but what is forgotten is the role of that system in the entire war machine set up and how well a given machine can slot into a given armed force.

The phallic analogy actually becomes very relevant here. On length alone one may exceed another and be declared "winner" but what is left out of the comparison is the attractiveness of the body that carries the organ in question and the ability of that body to gain and hold on to a mate long before any question of length comes into play. The selection of mate is not done by length. The effectiveness of a combat helicopter in a given armed force is not determined by its weight, power plant, load carrying capacity or armament. These comparisons of "best" are based solely on specs. You are well informed enough to know the variables that come into play here and they include serviceability, lifetime cost and MTBF. The servicability of a given machine may be - for example 80% in Russia but only 20% in Angola. How and when are these comparisons done. And by whom? It's always "X is bigger". "No Y is bigger"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2011 14:48 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Posts: 15799
Location: General Error : Bhery Phamous General !
I have no problem with comparison as long as it is not done in the more serious threads because they tend to be troll magnets.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Aug 2011 15:45 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21
Posts: 4033
Shiv ji, again I agree with you that comparing specifications is the most naive of all comparisons, especially for a war machine.

But personally I would love to read an in depth comparison of say a Rafale vs EF vs Mig-35 or Arjun vs T-90 vs M1s. I would only be prejudiced if I say that I don't want to read a comparison of the LCH vs it's contemporaries. I see nothing wrong in analyzing the effectiveness of two or more machines which were built for the same purpose. But this is my opinion :).

Unfortunately, one can't put up an analysis on a poster ... hence we see all the companies (HAL included) putting up spec-wise comparisons at stalls and brochures.

Rahul da, I agree with you ... there will be no more posts from me on this topic on this thread ... anyways I have stated my opinion and completely understand what Shiv ji is saying ... Shivji, I would love to hear more from you in this regard ... I consider myself a newbie in front of you, especially when it comes to history of deployments ... may be on the newbie thread?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 31 Aug 2011 08:40 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 09 Feb 2009 16:58
Posts: 1163
Mi-17-v5 helicopter to be based in the Punjab - First lot from Russia arrives in a couple of weeks- excerpts :
Quote:
The IAF aims to utilise the Mi-17-V5 helicopters for special heli-borne operations, air-maintenance, transportation of troops and equipment, search and rescue, casualty evacuation and in armed helicopter roles.

For long, Mi-17 chopper variants have been used by para-commandos of the Army and also the Special Operations Group of the NSG. The latest variant will be able to drop 25 troops in one go and from multiple on-board exit points.
The new variant will have the ability to allow the pilots to start the engines at altitudes of 6,000 m (about 21,000 ft) thus helping in servicing various high-altitude posts in the Himalayas. Each of the two engines can generate 2,200 hp of power. This is a significant improvement over the previous version which has two engines of 1,950 hp each.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2011/20110831/nation.htm#6


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2011 10:53 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Posts: 7352
Location: Peace out
Rudra

Quote:
New Delhi: Army's aerial firepower capabilities will get a boost as it is soon going to induct the attack version of indigenously-built Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) 'Rudra'.

The 'Rudra' is the first weaponised chopper built in the country and will be inducted into the Army Aviation Corps in the current financial year, army officials said.

Armed with an array of guns, rocket pods, air-to-air and anti-tank guided missiles, the fleet of the weaponised helicopters, the "heavily-loaded" ALH, has been approved for induction as part of modernisation and capability development efforts by the government, they said.

Integration of the weaponised aerial platform into the army will provide the field commanders the ability to apply decisive combat power at critical times anywhere in the battle field, they said.

Rudra is an armed variant of the ALH Dhruva chopper and "necessary changes have been made in the airframe of the chopper to give it agility and speed to make it a suitable support weapon for the ground troops".

The chopper has been named 'Rudra', one of the names of Lord Shiva who is worshipped as the destroyer of enemies, to signify the helicopter's firepower and capabilities. .

The HAL is also in the process of developing a Light Combat Helicopter (LCH) which will be inducted in both the army and the Indian Air Force.

The 5.5 tonne class twin engine chopper has a number of advanced features such as Automatic Flight Control System, Integrated Dynamic System, Full Authority Digital Electronic Control can cruise at speeds of 250 km per hour.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2011 11:15 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 12 Jun 2010 14:39
Posts: 114
rudra seems a good enough name !!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2011 13:07 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 48251
Location: Gaius Bangaloricus - leader of 39th legion
a good choice of name ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Sep 2011 13:39 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 21 Apr 2002 11:31
Posts: 1729
Singha wrote:
a good choice of name ;)


Finally all your dream weapon ideas and posts on BR get some recognition..... :D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011 19:44 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Posts: 15799
Location: General Error : Bhery Phamous General !
posts moved to viewtopic.php?p=1159044#p1159044


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2011 04:20 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2023
Indian attack chopper expected by year end
Quote:
NEW DELHI, Sept. 9 (UPI) -- The Indian army will induct the attack version of the indigenously built advanced light helicopter into the army aviation corps this year, a defense official said.

The Rudra light combat helicopter is a "heavily loaded" version of the advanced light helicopter Dhruv. The Rudra is armed with an array of guns and rocket pods as well as air-to-air and anti-tank missiles, a report by the Press Trust of India said, without naming any army official.

The PTI report gave no other details or dates.

The Rudra first flew in March 2010.

India's army has been waiting for the armed version since the utility helicopter Dhruv, built by Hindustan Aeronautics, entered service in 2002. Around 160 are believed to have been ordered by the army and navy from the company's assembly plant in Bangalore.

Even the unarmed utility version, which also is available for civilian use, was a long time coming.

The Dhruv project was announced in 1984 when Hindustan Aeronautics began designing the aircraft with assistance from the German aerospace company Messerschmitt-Bolkow-Blohm.

MBB was formed as the result of several mergers in the late 1960s and which in 1989 was bought by Daimler-Benz Aerospace. MBB is now part of EADS.

The Dhruv first flew in 1992 and has been exported first to Ecuador in 2008 for $50 million and then to Nepal and Israel.

Hindustan Aeronautics won the Ecuadorian order amid strong competition from Elbit, Eurocopter and Kazan.

"HAL's offer of $50.7 million for seven helicopters was about 32 percent lower than the second lowest bid from Elbit," a June 2008 Indian Ministry of Defense statement said.

But exports have suffered because of an accident in October 2009. One of the seven sold to the Ecuadorian air force crashed during a military parade, leaving two crew injured.

The helicopter veered off course while flying in formation with two other helicopters over an air force base near Quito and hit the ground nose first, the PTI reported at the time.

The Ecuadorian air force grounded the other six Dhruv until an investigation was completed. The investigation concluded pilot error was to blame.

In April, four Indian army personnel were killed in a Dhruv helicopter crash in north Sikkim state, near the Chinese border.

The Dhruv helicopter carries up to 12 passenger and two pilots sitting side by side, with a maximum takeoff weight of 12,125 pounds. Maximum speed of 180 mph is from two Shakti turboshaft engines or two Turbomeca TM 333-2B2 turboshaft engines. The service ceiling is around 27,500 feet.

The Rudra version has the two pilots sitting one behind the other.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2011 07:51 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 13 Sep 2008 22:04
Posts: 314
Location: New Delhi
Quote:
The Rudra version has the two pilots sitting one behind the other.


Are we talking about LCH?,I thought it is WSI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Sep 2011 09:07 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 18 Aug 2009 08:01
Posts: 764
Location: Where you get 10 wives 20 daughters and 72 Virgins
sarabpal.s wrote:
Quote:
The Rudra version has the two pilots sitting one behind the other.


Are we talking about LCH?,I thought it is WSI


You are not introduced to the term DDM yet? BTW it was DDM at its best!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2011 15:46 
Offline
BRFite -Trainee

Joined: 08 Oct 2010 16:28
Posts: 87
Location: Bangalore

Took this video of a Dhruv carrying a net-like contraption. It is cleary visible in the first 2-3 seconds only. I think it is the below-mentioned gun carriage system. Could anyone confirm?

http://www.defencenow.com/news/240/indi ... _guns.html


Last edited by saje on 21 Sep 2011 05:54, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Sep 2011 16:37 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Posts: 7352
Location: Peace out
Can view the video..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 12:27 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 16 Nov 2006 10:09
Posts: 169
Location: INDIA
LUH engine bid

:( hope they stick to shakti


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 14:52 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 14705
Location: India
AWST Sept.5th issue has sveeral news items reg. IAF's future procurement plans including helos.

Attack helo.Apache leads.Both MI-28.Ap. performed well,Ap. more advanced in night ops.
Heavy-lift,MI-26 vs Chinook.Russian giant offers better economics with the type already in service.Upgraded helo demonstrated with new glass cockpit,etc."50-50" as for the LUH-the Eurocopter birdie vs Kamov's. Total est. this decade is 700 helos.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2011 16:15 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Posts: 1127
Location: Land of the free
^ Sirji, I felt I just heard a soldier relaying status from the frontline.
Please be more elaborative.

No offense intended. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 08:33 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 26 Jul 2009 04:29
Posts: 305
Location: Out at the sea
Do the Mi-17V5s have a radar built onto the nose ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 10:33 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Posts: 1127
Location: Land of the free
No sir.
None of the mi-17 have any radar.
Newer birds have terrain sensors none the less.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 13:00 
Online
BR Mainsite Crew

Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31
Posts: 15664
Bob V wrote:
Do the Mi-17V5s have a radar built onto the nose ?


Most choppers if they ever carry a radar carry navigational/weather radar.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/ind ... ers-02755/

Quote:
The $310 million worth of upgrades under the reported deal will be carried out on 46 Mi-8, 78 Mi-17 and 48 Mi-171V helicopters to add instrument landing system radars, very high-frequency omni-directional range radars, an advanced weather radar and a digital moving map display. The Mi-17s will also receive Bharat Electronics Tarang 1B radar warning receivers, and missile approach warning systems.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 13:11 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 48251
Location: Gaius Bangaloricus - leader of 39th legion
will finally make them capable of adverse weather and night ops with much higher margin of safety. stuff like this comes as std kit probably in US army helis, for us its always some afterthought. basic stuff to carry on a war 24x7 basis.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 14:52 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Posts: 6961
Location: BRAFTA!
^^^All these bells and whistles become extremely important if you consider our terrain and weather problem in the North-East and North India. Them mountains are extremely trecherous and weather tends to pack up at short notice.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 16:22 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Mar 2001 12:31
Posts: 4902
need wire cutters on all our helos

with our penchant for stringing wires and cables wherever we feel like - ingress and egress in SHBO ops is a nail biting affair


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2011 17:16 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 26 Jul 2009 04:29
Posts: 305
Location: Out at the sea
I reason why I asked is I saw a pic of the bird, with a modified nose section (most likely a weather radar). I don't know if it is meant for us or a prototype.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 01 Oct 2011 04:15 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Posts: 2023
Russian helicopters arrive in India
Quote:
The first batch of the Russian Mil Mi-17B5 helicopters has arrived at an air base in the Indian northwestern state of Punjab.

For years, India’s air forces have been using Russian Mil Mi-17 helicopters in the conditions of rough mountain terrain in the states of Ladakh, Arunachal Pradesh and Himachal Pradesh.

The recent batch consists of upgraded versions of the helicopter to be used for the transportation of troops and military vehicles and for rescue and emergency operations.

The contract for the supply of 80 helicopters worth $1,354bln was clinched in 2008.

All assembly work and checks will be performed by Russian experts accompanying the cargo.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2011 16:33 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 11 Feb 2010 21:19
Posts: 325
Location: In the Lion's Den
ALH Rudhra performs weapons tests


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2011 20:51 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 28467
Location: Sanatana Dharma: The binding force of South Asia
Pratik_S wrote:


Interesting. It is spelt Rudhra here. Rudra has a soft "dh" and not a hard "ddh", or its a southie spelling like "Karthik" versus "Kartik"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2011 21:24 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 07 Oct 2005 12:58
Posts: 7352
Location: Peace out
Yeah..but maybe we are reading too much in this spelling


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 02 Oct 2011 22:07 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 28467
Location: Sanatana Dharma: The binding force of South Asia
krishnan wrote:
Yeah..but maybe we are reading too much in this spelling


Probably. English is a lousy language for Indian names and words. Too much ambiguity.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 03 Oct 2011 11:51 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 2155
Location: NullPointerException
shiv wrote:
Pratik_S wrote:


Interesting. It is spelt Rudhra here. Rudra has a soft "dh" and not a hard "ddh", or its a southie spelling like "Karthik" versus "Kartik"


In South they always add an h, like the example you gave, Karthik instead of Kartik, Latha instead of Lata, etc. But as you said, spellings of Indian names in English always looks a little weird.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011 09:11 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Feb 2011 18:41
Posts: 727
Image

Image

Quote:
Bangalore. The armed version of India’s Dhruv Advanced Light Helicopter (ALH) touched 20,000 feet in a test flight early August while two Cheetals performed a daring rescue at 23,000 feet a few weeks later.

The ALH test flight was conducted by Army’s ace test pilot Brig Amardeep Sidhu in Leh while the two Cheetals were taken to this height by ace pilots of the Indian Air Force (IAF) to rescue a stranded foreign mountaineer.

The armed version of the ALH, designated Rudra by the Army Aviation Corps which operates them, is still under various tests before its induction by end-2011. But so far, according to Chairman and Managing Ashok Nayak of HAL, which manufactures the helicopter at its Bangalore facility, all the required tests, undertaken step by step, have been successful.

Rudra has also cleared the airto- air and air-to-ground missile firing tests at the Interim Test Range at Balasore in Orissa and now, combined missile, rocket and gun firing tests, day and night, would be conducted later this year. Pilots also have Helmet mounted cueing systems to ensure precision attacks.

Notably, Rudra is powered by the new Shakti engine developed by HAL and the French Turbomeca, which should be a standard fitting in all versions of the ALH, including the high altitude attack helicopter now called LCH or Light Combat helicopter, Mr Nayak told India Strategic in an interview.


Quote:
But Shakti is the engine of today, Mr Nayak said adding that Turbomeca had done all the required Transfer of Technology (ToT) for its manufacture by HAL. The utility version is however still on the drawing board but should not take long to develop as its various components would be the same as those successfully tested on ALH variants. Its engine is also under the selection process.

Mr Nayak said that Phase I of the Shakti engine’s TOT was over, and the remaining three phases would be completed in about two years and then the infrastructure to manufacture it fully in India would be established. Significantly, he pointed out, the critical engine core technology had already been transferred.


Quote:
It may be noted that Rudra, or ALHWSI (Weapon Systems Integrated) is coming in two versions. The Mark III, which Brig Sidhu took to the new heights, has Electronic Warfare and Targeting Systems while the Mark IV would have a French Nexter 20 mm turret gun, Belgian 70 mm rockets, and MBDA air to air and air to ground missiles. All these systems have been tested individually.


Quote:
Two prototypes of the LCH have done about 100 hours, flown by Group Captain Unni Pillai, a retired IAF test pilot, who is the Chief Test Pilot for HAL now.


Quote:
Mr Nayak said that a 3rd prototype of the LCH is under development, and that it should be inducted by the IAF in about three to four years.


ALH touches 20,000 feet and Cheetal 23,000


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011 09:36 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 12 Jun 2010 14:39
Posts: 114
Quote:
Mr Nayak said that Phase I of the Shakti engine’s TOT was over, and the remaining three phases would be completed in about two years and then the infrastructure to manufacture it fully in India would be established. Significantly, he pointed out, the critical engine core technology had already been transferred.

it seems significant TOT.why cant we modify shakthi to suit LOH without turbomeca??


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011 09:50 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Posts: 48251
Location: Gaius Bangaloricus - leader of 39th legion
likely because modification is not as simple as it sounds (we have never done a greenfield turboshaft before) and having the OEM onboard will reduce risk and ensure timely delivery of a safe product. french will tell us how to make the core and sell us the tools and metals if needed to do so, but they would never tell us what happens if the core temp increase by 100C or shape of the core chamber changed by 10cm or fuel inflow increased by 5% - such design secrets are never transferred.

the other approach is go it alone using shakti as a base - thats the chini approach - maybe it will pay in long run. but as we know the WS10x is struggling to have a lifetime of 100 hrs while its 'blood father' the AL31F goes 1000s of hrs :mrgreen: and this after many years of cloning and playing around! what kind of safety it will have is also a open question as we can see in the bullet train cloning episode.

in the end the IAF unlike the PLAAF will not have a unsafe and immature product shoved down their throat nor they will accept timeline slippage beyond a point.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011 10:31 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 15 Aug 2010 18:52
Posts: 281
Location: Pune
The cockpit is a visual delight. Thanks for sharing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Oct 2011 12:26 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 12 Jun 2010 14:39
Posts: 114
Singha wrote:
likely because modification is not as simple as it sounds (we have never done a greenfield turboshaft before) and having the OEM onboard will reduce risk and ensure timely delivery of a safe product. french will tell us how to make the core and sell us the tools and metals if needed to do so, but they would never tell us what happens if the core temp increase by 100C or shape of the core chamber changed by 10cm or fuel inflow increased by 5% - such design secrets are never transferred.

the other approach is go it alone using shakti as a base - thats the chini approach - maybe it will pay in long run. but as we know the WS10x is struggling to have a lifetime of 100 hrs while its 'blood father' the AL31F goes 1000s of hrs :mrgreen: and this after many years of cloning and playing around! what kind of safety it will have is also a open question as we can see in the bullet train cloning episode.

guess doing a WS 10 like thing or modifying it without OEM ,with shakthi will vioalate IPR agreement with the french.but the recent spat sure have made turbomecas chance for the engine bid for LOH a lot lesser.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Oct 2011 09:40 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Feb 2011 18:41
Posts: 727
Combat Helicopters


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2011 09:13 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 06 Apr 2003 12:31
Posts: 1935
Is the LCH designed to fill an equivalent role to MH-6 Little Bird/AH-6 in the US armed forces? Light gunship for aerial scouting and special operations, that can land in the middle of streets and building terraces for the prosecution of urban warfare, as well as tiny patches of real estate in the jungles of the Red Corridor?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 26 Oct 2011 09:21 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13
Posts: 6672
Rudradev wrote:
Is the LCH designed to fill an equivalent role to MH-6 Little Bird/AH-6 in the US armed forces? Light gunship for aerial scouting and special operations, that can land in the middle of streets and building terraces for the prosecution of urban warfare, as well as tiny patches of real estate in the jungles of the Red Corridor?


The LOH is in the class of AH-6.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 4006 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56 ... 101  Next

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bhaskar_T, joji, Kakarat, subhamoy.das and 26 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group