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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2011 20:28 
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well being truck mounted, the entire group got on a rail of flatbed cars and moved east..


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2011 21:07 
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Without getting detected by Chinese and paki intel!!! That's one helluva movement across such a long distance..


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2011 21:14 
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In last post, Chinese had indeed noticed the deployment through satellites, but it'll also give Pakis a cause for mischief. Wouldn't Brahmos be more suitable due to it's better accuracy, launcher mobility and longer range ?

Of course all of this is based on my initial assumption that SS-150 are deployed on western border only.


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PostPosted: 27 Nov 2011 21:23 
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According to the posts,
The chinese got alerted to this because the launchers moved into launch positions.. Else they wouldn't have noticed..


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2011 20:30 
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No story today? :cry:


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2011 20:58 
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with 10s of military trains on the march daily in north india during wartime, it would be hard to spot the prithvi trucks because they are small and ordinary looking. decoy trucks with dummy prithvi's (or spares) could be arranged and left behind at original site to soothe anyone who looks.


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PostPosted: 28 Nov 2011 22:22 
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welcome Back Vivek..
thanks for a thundering start :)


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 02:52 
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I have been visiting BR for a long time now. This is my first post and i will like to say thanks to these amazing guys for such superb stuff. Hope will be able to contribute something worthy in future


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 09:13 
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Ahuja sir Jai Ho!!.... Its so good to read your scenarios...


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 10:11 
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abhinavjo wrote:
I have it. mail me at abhinavjo@gmail.com and I'll forward it to you.


Hello Abhinav, please forward the scenario in the format you have. will drop at mail at the gmail id given above.

- Mike.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 17:23 
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Amazing writing Mr. Ahuja! :hat tip:

I am eagerly awaiting your book :)

vivek_ahuja wrote:
THE INDIAN AEROSPACE NODE (IASN)
BANGALORE, INDIA
DAY 6 + 1512 HRS



“SFC wants to know the status of that single S-300 system in Sagher north of Bhutan. If the Chinese attempt to use Ballistic Missiles in this war, the first thing they will lose in return at the hand of our Prithvi Missiles is that lone S-300 battery protecting precious airspace between Bhutan and Lhasa…”


A quick koschan..

Don't the S-300s have proven ABM capabilities? Esp in taking out the short range BMs?


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 19:00 
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^^ they do. Even shot down couple of Brahmos in the earlier posts


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 19:01 
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mikehurst wrote:
abhinavjo wrote:
I have it. mail me at abhinavjo@gmail.com and I'll forward it to you.


Hello Abhinav, please forward the scenario in the format you have. will drop at mail at the gmail id given above.

- Mike.


Done! :)


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 19:17 
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THE WANG-CHU BRIDGE
NORTH OF THIMPU
BHUTAN
DAY 6 + 1530 HRS


“Okay. Here’s the plan…” Captain Pathanya said to Vikram as he slung his rifle sling around his neck. Behind them, the rest of the Spear-One team had gathered up. The artillery fire from the Chinese side had stopped after Hotel-Six had annihilated the battery north of the ridgeline in a heavy salvo of counter-battery rocket fire. The hill they were on was still covered in smoke and dust clouds, lingering because they had no place to drift off to. The trees on the western slope of the hill had been decimated to their roots, and craters peppered the hillside, spewing acrid smoke in plumes. Pathanya and the others were choking from the smoke and dust, struggling to speak up…

Pathanya pointed his arm towards the dilapidated Wang-Chu village on the western side of the bridge. They had seen Chinese infantry taking positions inside the village, about to make an attack to seize control of the bridge. Hotel-Six was replenishing its rockets north of the Paru airfield and was temporarily unavailable. All Pathanya could count on for the moment in terms of support was the RPV recon from Warlord-Central and the inbound flight of two helicopters, one of which was an armed Lancer equipped for close range support:

“Those houses there are probably occupied by now by Red Troops. The bridge is wired to blow, but the frozen riverbed won’t stop the enemy infantry from rushing across. We can’t stay here now. We have to keep rolling backwards to Thimpu, harassing these guys all the way using Hotel-Six rocket Arty. And we also have to get Ganesh out of here and beyond that bend of road to the south where Delta-One and –Two are waiting to extract him on any open clearing we can secure.

“Keep your eyes peeled and move silent. We are going back down that slope without waking up the reds. One false move and they are going to open up with everything they got and we are going to get skewered. Understand?” Pathanya said, and looked around to see everybody nodding in silence. He then removed the rifle sling, pulled up his rifle and headed out from behind the rocks, slowly moving past the broken branches and tree trunks and stepping across the smoking shrapnel embedded into the wet mud of the hillside. Behind him, the other ten members of the team did the same. Three of them moving with Ganesh as they helped him descend the tricky slopes…

At least the ice and snow melted away…Pathanya thought as he realized why he wasn’t slipping on the same rocky terrain he had climbed up before. His eyes, however, were peering down the red-dot sight of his rifle as he watched the eerily silent windows of the houses across the bridge. He looked behind for a quick second to see the others coming down the hill as well, all of them moving without a sound. The Chinese probably didn’t know the exact location of the team that had helped Indian Arty wipe out their guns and a good portion of their men from the first wave that had descended towards the outskirts of the village. And Pathanya certainly didn’t relish being sighted by the guys now in the village who were probably pretty vengeful by now.

A few minutes later, Spear-One had pretty much descended right up till the road and the burnt out hulk of the RBA truck from before. The sun was beginning to dip now, as the day began to end. Normally, Pathanya and his men would have waited till nightfall to withdraw, slugging it out from their elevated positions if they had to in order to buy time. But Ganesh could not hold on that long, based on what the team’s medic had told Pathanya. And Delta Flight choppers could nto hang around indefinitely either. General Potgam had continuous requirement for helicopters in Bhutan right now and could not afford to allocate them indefinitely to a single SF team, no matter what the situation. Not enough choppers to go around so everybody had to share…

“Delta-One, what’s your position, over?” Pathanya said as he depressed the R/T transmit button on his comms. The reply came over the background of helicopter blades and engines:
“Standing-by south of Winchester-Charlie at three clicks; What’s your situation? over”

“Spear-One is attempting disengagement and withdrawal. All silent so far; ETA to primary LZ is ten minutes. Over” Pathanya said, and received the okay from Delta-Flight before switching comms to his team again. Vikram’s voice came online just as Pathanya and another of his men ran across the edge of the road and took cover behind the RBA truck spewing black smoke into the darkening sky above…

“Boss, I got optical reflections from that central two floor building. It’s the only elevated position in the village. I think the Reds have optics on us…”
“Shit! Get behind cover!” Pathanya said as he pulled out his own binoculars and peered around the edge of the frontal axis of the truck, looking into the village.

“Which building are you talking about? I see a white one with a half destroyed roof.” Pathanya said without looking away from his optics. Vikram was doing the same from his position behind a large boulder a few meters above the road and on the slope:
“Yeah. That’s the one. Second window from the right, second floor”

“Oh yeah. I have it now…yup: that’s weapons optics for sure. He’s scanning the hillside looking for us. Probably hasn’t spotted as near the base of the hill because he is looking further up towards the top.” Pathanya said as he lowered his binoculars and looked around for options. If they moved now, chance sof being spotted were high. But all said and done, the Chinese probably still weren’t sure who and where the opposing forces were. They were probably expecting a standard hilltop deployment of at least a Company size force. That would explain their Arty fire as well, which was area-saturation rather than precision, even though Pathanya knew very well that they had precision arty rounds on hand, going by the way they had targeted the RBA forces in the sector…

“Damn it!” Pathanya thought as he realized the openness of the next few hundred meters down the road that they had to go. Enough cover to allow a fighting withdrawal by a larger force, but not by ten men out of which four were combat-ineffective. He switched his comms back to Delta:

“You still there, Delta?”
“Roger that, Spear-One. What’s taking you so long? We are going to be running on fumes here pretty soon if you boys don’t reach the LZ!” the Major piloting the Lancer said as he watched the ALH hovering a few feet above the grassy terrain of the Bhutanese countryside to his left as he did the same.

“Delta-One, we have enemy optics conducting visual recon of the hillside and we are exposed. No enemy fire yet suggests enemy does not know our force composition or strength. However, that will change if we are spotted by that enemy OP in an elevated structure in the center of Winchester-Charlie. Over” Pathanya said over the R/T. The Army Aviation Major looked to his co-pilot in a silent gaze that said it all. Goddamn it

“Spear-One. Describe the structure occupied by the Red OP team. Over” the Major said finally.

“Delta-One, Enemy OP is a two floor, white coloration building with a damaged roof and flat top. Structrue is in the center of the village and clearly visible when ingress is from the northeast. Over” Pathanya said, guessing what the Major had in mind…
“Roger that. Delta-One is detaching and bypassing Winchester-Charlie from the east. Expect ingress from the northeast. ETA…five minutes. Delta-One out!” the Major said and looked over to his co-pilot:

“All right, my friend. I am not a religious man, but god help both of us now!”

The Lancer increased power and picked up from the grassy field surrounding LZ-Alpha, leaving the ALH hovering over the field with its crew watching as the Lancer’s engines groaned and moaned under the sudden strain of maximized collective by the Major. The helicopter flew down the valley, flying east of the hill occupied by the Spear-One team. The Major looked to his left and saw the smoke bellowing from the western slopes of that hill. He frowned a bit at the corner of his mouth and then lowered his helmet visor as he adjusted the tail-rotor power and spun the helicopter around on a south-westerly axis. He and his co-pilot could now see the Wang-Chu village on the horizon as they hovered over the tips of the trees in the valley below. The sun was somewhat in their eyes but that couldn’t be helped since the target had only one approach route…

“Weapons armed. You have release. Throttle at max!” the co-pilot said as the Major looked out to try and spot the target building with his eagle eyes. He thought he spotted it: “Okay. I have target acquisition! Let’s roll!”

The Lancer dipped its nose and rapidly built up speed as it flew towards the Wang-Chu village from the north, coming up behind the Chinese forces at tree-top level. Pathanya spotted the Major and his helicopter coming down the valley a good few seconds before the Chinese did, and by the time they picked up their weapons and attempted to reorient themselves, the Lancer was flying a hundred kilometers an hour and already over the village…

“Weapons release! Fire! Fire! Fire!” the Major shouted over the R/T as the Lancer released all four of its gun-pod rockets which slammed into the white building in the center of the village, demolishing it in a bowl of dust and smoke but surprisingly little fire. As the last walls of the building occupied by the enemy OP team collapsed, the Lancer had already flown overhead amidst a crackling of gunfire from the Chinese infantry inside the village. It didn’t take long before the thuds of bullet impacts started off inside the cockpit of the Lancer. The Major and his co-pilot were busy taking their bird down to tree-top height to evade the fire when a burst of LMG fire severed the tail rotor drive on the exposed boom of the Lancer, sending the helicopter spinning around while moving at one hundred kilometers an hour…

“Mayday, Mayday! Delta-One has suffered catastrophic failure in attitude control. Shutting down power and attempting auto-rotation landing! Delta-One requesting SAR support at grid-Alpha-Quebec-tw…” the R/T transmit was replaced with a screeching static as the helicopter slammed into the trees well south of the village and close to the primary LZ of Spear-One…

Oh dear god in heaven!” Vikram said from his position loud enough to be heard by all around him as they watched the helicopter disappear from their sights and a rumbling thunder occur a few seconds afterwards. Pathanya, however, was more composed:

“Spear-One! We are leaving. Egress to primary-LZ and link up with Delta-Two! Make the most of the cover provided by Delta-One’s sacrifice! Move!”

The team moved out a few seconds later while Pathanya stayed behind the truck to observe the dust cloud from the destroyed building and the dead Chinese OP team’s position. He could see the chaos inside the village as the Chinese soldiers attempted rescue operations for their wounded and buried. They seemed extremely energetic, however…

Maybe their CO was in that building. Good for us. Bad for them
…Pathanya thought as he lowered his binoculars, picked up his rifle and moved out from behind the truck. As he ran, he switched comms: “Delta-Two, this is Spear-One. What’s the status of Delta-One? Do you have a visual of the crash site? Over”

“Delta-One is down and on fire, Spear-One. We have visual of the crash site close to LZ-Alpha. Can you divert some personnel for SAR? Over” the pilot of the ALH said over the R/T.

“Roger that! Any survivors?” Pathanya asked as he waved another of his men to follow him to the crash site made visible by the pillar of smoke coming from the trees near LZ-Alpha. He then ordered Vikram to see that Ganesh was evacuated properly and to secure the perimeter.
“Hard to tell, Spear-One. Over”

“Roger. We will take it from here, Delta-Two. Meet you at the primary! Out” Pathanya said as he and his colleague ran through the bushes and jumped over the rocky terrain covered in treacherous ice and snow as they moved towards the burning wreckage of the Lancer. When he got to the site, Pathanya was witness to the horror of the crash. The Lancer cockpit had been smashed into the trees, and its engine and gun-pods were scattered into the foliage all around him, smoke bellowing and fires raging from fuel splattered all around. Pathanya saw the crushed body of the co-pilot still strapped inside his seat in the crushed glass cockpit. The Major had fallen clear and his body was nearby, trailing a line of blood from where he had fallen…

“Oh my god! He’s alive! Quick!” Pathanya motioned to his colleague and they ran over to the Major and turned him over. He was bleeding profusely through his green flightsuit but his hands were still clenching his personal firearm. Both men picked up the Major and straggled over to the LZ where the ALH was waiting and Vikram and the other men were on kneeling around the helicopter, their weapons pointed outwards at any threat that might come their way. They loaded Ganesh and the Major into the ALH which promptly screeched back off the ground and dived behind the hills as it flew south towards Paru airfield and General Potgam’s security zone in southern Bhutan…

Pathanya looked at the blood on his arms and hands that had resulted when they had brought the pilot over to the ALH. He saw his nine remaining men staring at him in silence as he looked at the blood. His face then stiffened and he pulled out a cloth to remove the blood:

“What the hell are you guys waiting for. This war isn’t over! The Chinese are probably getting organized inside Wang-Chu. Vikram, blow the bridge. We have no further use in holding on to it. Any villagers north of Wang-Chu are now behind enemy lines.

As for the Chinese inside Wang-Chu: let’s see if Fernandes can loan a suitable reply of 214 mm presents for what they did to the crew of Delta-One…”


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2011 20:34 
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Hey Vivek,

Really glad you are back writing again. Great stuff.

Have you considered publishing your book on Amazon Kindle?

https://kdp.amazon.com/self-publishing/signin

I don't own a kindle, but use the Kindle Cloud reader, a free app on Google Chrome. I guess it would be a great way to ensure you get your dues while ensuring that your work is not pirated or illegally shared.

Anyone with a credit card can just click and buy your book and keep it forever on the Kindle Cloud.

Regards,
Anand


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2011 02:32 
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abhinavjo wrote:
I have it. mail me at xxxxxjo@gmail.com and I'll forward it to you.

THANKS for the scenarios, you might want to remove your ID from the forum


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2011 11:29 
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Welcome back Vivek!
If you could post a rough map, that would help in creating a mental picture of the battle.
Right now, I am having a bit hard time in visualizing the battlefield.

Please keep us updated about your book.
I will be one of first buyer.
I guess, many of us might have kindle application installed on their computer. So, if nothing works, you can try self-publishing through amazon too.

:) Please have maps in the book, if you can.

--------------

Coming back to Scenario.
If you could, can you please also mention about LCA Tejas too.
I know it is a light aircraft and won't able to match heavy Chinese Su or Mig.

But, I wonder during full-fledged war with China, India won't have luxury to hold Tejas back in hangers.

It would be interesting to see, how LCA Tejas could be used effectively during war.
They could be used in ,maybe, a composite squadron (with SU-30MKI), close air support or something you can come up.


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2011 11:38 
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question to readers:

I am unable to find any description of OP Chimera in the chumbi valley. was it the subject of scenario posts or just mentioned in passing to be taken up later?


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2011 12:01 
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Here are the Links to the previous scenarios in pfd/.doc
Quote:
DISCLAIMER
I did not create these files, got them from a fellow BRFite
If the authors want i would gladly take these off the net too.
Have fun!


http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/3 ... o-pdf.html
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/3 ... k-doc.html
http://www.megafileupload.com/en/file/3 ... r-doc.html


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PostPosted: 30 Nov 2011 12:31 
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Singhaji,
It was mentioned in the initial posts, sometime in 2009 if i am right. But there was no proper description of all the battles/ops involved in it.


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PostPosted: 01 Dec 2011 23:44 
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Hi Vivek, will we have any further updates.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011 10:43 
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I recently got the opportunity to read up on the previous posts of Mr Vivek's scenario 2. Was very gripping and felt quite realistic. Mr Vivek i have one doubt.

As per the post with the heading "OVER CENTRAL CHINA DAY 2 + 2330 HRS" the Indians had found out about the cruise missile launches by China. As per the "CHAPTER-2 STRATEGIC WAR NEW DELHI DAY 3 + 0000 HRS" post the Indians new that a debilitating attack was launched by China with missiles aimed at Delhi proper in an attempt to destroy the political leadership. As at the time of the evacuation of the executive, the Indians did not know if the attack was conventional or nuclear.

In such a surprise attack, would India not have considered this to be a nuclear first strike by China and responded by activating its deterrents and launching a similar strike against Beijing proper. If I understand properly the Indian nuclear policy is to respond to the launch of a nuclear strike; the one against Delhi fit the bill to a "T". Was there a reason why the Indians did not respond to this attack on Delhi.

- Mike.


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2011 14:43 
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Vivek Saab, can we expect some big posts during this weekend. :?:


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2011 15:20 
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Quote:
n such a surprise attack, would India not have considered this to be a nuclear first strike by China and responded by activating its deterrents and launching a similar strike against Beijing proper. If I understand properly the Indian nuclear policy is to respond to the launch of a nuclear strike; the one against Delhi fit the bill to a "T". Was there a reason why the Indians did not respond to this attack on Delhi.


No, the doctrine is that India will *verify* that a nuclear strike has occurred, and who has initiated it and then respond. The response can take days, the doctrine does not specify immediate merely says that it is "assured". The entire posture that India has is not "launch on warning", hence the demated cores from the warheads.


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2011 23:05 
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Thanks, Abhinav.


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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2011 23:39 
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Location: Atop Orthanc, cursing, "Damn it where are those backfires??"
vivek_ahuja wrote:
I am still trying to finalize a publisher but busy updating the book which is now, frankly, a bit dated by current events. If necessary, I will publish the book on my own expense to save time. I believe the readers here will like what I have been doing to it. Will keep you guys posted.

In the meantime, if I may be allowed, I would like to continue my remaining scenario here...

-Vivek


Ahuja Sir, a couple of people I know have been quite successful via self publishing. Not too expensive either. There is a company called, Lightning Source that does a pretty decent job in publishing per order. It also sets you up on major outlets such as Amazon and B&N. Upfront cost including getting a SAN, ISBN etc is not much and I think with your own publication house, you are looking at no more than $ 500-750.

Basically, they don't print anything until they either get orders directly from outlets such as Amazon or the author/publishing house gives a specific order - for bulk as well as small orders, they are very, very reasonable. I have compared 'em with options from India as well.

CM


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 15:44 
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I have got a question Vivek sir, in your scenario in which the Sukhois took out the S-300 batteries,why did you decide to choose Brahmos for the job ?
Couldn't Smerch or Pinaka missiles have taken out the batteries ?I feel that instead of using expensive Brahmos missiles,a salvo of either one of these missile system could have overwhelmed the defences and could have done the job without risking the planes and the pilots.
This is just a simple query,please don't take offense.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 16:40 
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Aniket, SMERCH and Pinnaka have ranges of 90 and 40 kms respectively. The S300 batteries are well beyond the range of these 2, maybe 300-400 km behind the front line. Hence the choice of brahmos on Su-30's and Jaguars.

Vivek ji, waiting for your update.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 17:22 
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What are the chances of SU-30 or any IAF aircraft against S-300 ....the missiles as per wiki attain a speed of 2.5-8.5 mach ..as compared to max speed of a fighter which in best case can be 2+ Mach ??


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 17:40 
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Chandanus,
if you read scenario posting, it suggests the IAF Phalcons had shut down the S300 temporarily for the SU-30's to launch the brahmos. The attempt was though unsuccessful as the PLAAF had standby systems in place.

Quote:
OPERATION PHOENIX
THE SKIES OVER LADDAKH
DAY 3 + 1050 HRS (L)

The four SU-30s now heading directly for the LAC were not about to go on a kamikaze mission. These were armed specially for a specific job. In fact they were not even going to enter the S-300 kill zones east of the LAC. Each aircraft was armed with a single Air-Launched Brahmos missile. The four aircraft were spread out in line abreast formation and were barely a thousand feet above the peaks of the Laddakh Mountains as they streaked towards the border. Just beyond the Chinese “Fuzzy Detection Range” the aircrafts accelerated to very high subsonic mach numbers, pulled up level and released their deadly cargo.

The long tube shaped missiles fell cleanly off the four aircraft and ignited their motors after dropping a few dozen feet. By this time the four aircraft were already pulling tight “pitch-out” manoeuvres as they headed back out of the FDR and into friendly airspace.

The missiles were heading the opposite way. The targeting information had been fed in before the launches and they had been launched from around one hundred and fifty kilometres out, allowing for a time-to-target of less than three minutes. The missiles streaked across the Laddakh peaks with a massive thunderclap following in their wake. They were detected immediately after release from the SU-30s by the Chinese radars. West of the highway passing through the Aksai Chin, multiple S-300 systems engaged the four missiles with several launches. Even with the phenomenal speeds and low reaction times involved for both the target and the interceptor missiles, the S-300 proved to be a worthy opponent.

These systems had been placed east of the highway only because of the clear line of sight the plains provided to the defenders. Once the Brahmos missiles cleared the peaks around the Galwan River to the north and the Mobdi La peaks to the south, they had entered relatively clear terrain in full view of the deadly defences. With more than a dozen interceptor missiles targeting the four inbound Brahmos missiles, losses were inevitable. Two of the four Brahmos missiles were blown out of the sky by several interceptor missile hits.

The remaining two, however, streaked past the defences and slammed into the two BIG-BIRD radar systems for a battery in the central sector. The result explosions destroyed the two radar systems completely, shutting down the anti-missile radar capability for that sector of the highway. But the system was designed to be robust and included overlaps with other batteries and redundant auxiliary radar systems that went active minutes after the primary ones went down.

Back on board the Phalcon, the MC noted that there had been a temporary shut down of radar activity in the central sector that had opened up like a hole in the coverage, but it had now covered up again as new radar sources were tagged by the on-board computer as coming online. Until and unless the coverage of this network of defenses was reduced severely, the Jaguars could not dare penetrate the Aksai Chin region to take out the individual launchers around these batteries. And if that could not happen, the Indian fighters could not go north and take the fight to the PLAAF. It was all linked to one another.

But as it was turning out, the S-300 defensive belt around the Aksai Chin was proving to be a tough opponent at the moment


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 17:55 
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Ajit ...forget the scenario in question ....plain and simple ...i repeat again.. if a S-300 missile locks onto a IAF aircraft ..what are the chances of the machines survival ???


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 18:06 
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My guess is the aircraft stands no chances. However if the aircraft deploys chaffs and evasive actions, hence it may survive. This is anyway the case with all missiles once they lock on the aircraft. Guess the guru's on this site would be able to answer your question better than me.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 18:08 
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funny question, there is no ironclad guarantee that getting a lock on will result in a successful shot, I know that's what hollywood propagates but it's not how it happens in real life. more often than not it would depend on whether the aircraft 'cooperates' and stays within the kill zone of the SAM. to say nothing of EW that might go on to confuse the SAM.
as for speed, the SA-2's over vietnam had a significant speed advantage over fighters as well, yet they didn't do much.

make no mistake, the s-300 is a very capable system but it is not infalliable, no weapon system is.


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 21:40 
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Rahul M wrote:
funny question, there is no ironclad guarantee that getting a lock on will result in a successful shot, I know that's what hollywood propagates but it's not how it happens in real life. more often than not it would depend on whether the aircraft 'cooperates' and stays within the kill zone of the SAM. to say nothing of EW that might go on to confuse the SAM.
as for speed, the SA-2's over vietnam had a significant speed advantage over fighters as well, yet they didn't do much.

make no mistake, the s-300 is a very capable system but it is not infalliable, no weapon system is.


The S-400 AD missile in russia can attain speed of Mach 12 and under development S-500 wil be capable of 21 Mach (7 km /sec) ...as per wiki ...So i am wondering do the aircrafts even stand a chance against AD in current and in future ...??

Considering the present threat ..S-300 which can attain 5 Mach ....what is the best a Indian aircraft can do... ???

And i know ..the missile and the aircraft will not be racing in the sky together ...rather will try to outmanouver each other :)


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 22:26 
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my reply here : viewtopic.php?p=1206072#p1206072


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 22:31 
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Chandanus,
Please go back and read Vivek's scenario. In it, he writes of how the IAF successfully beats the S-300's. (I'll give you a hint: clever tactics.)
By the way, this is not only a problem for the IAF. It's a problem for every air force in the world. There are a range of possible solutions: stealth, supercruise, UCAV's, decoys, EW (all types, including network hacking), saturation attacks, etc. As Rahul M mentioned, every weapon system in the world has weaknesses. For every strength, there is a weakness.
Here's an article about a new solution the U.S. has come up with: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06 ... -defenses/


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PostPosted: 04 Dec 2011 22:45 
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Avarachan wrote:
Here's an article about a new solution the U.S. has come up with: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06 ... -defenses/

Interesting article.. Seems to me, they are considering moving away from Stealth to reduce AD network's efficiency and use swarming tactics to overload the system..


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2011 07:01 
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chandanus wrote:
Ajit ...forget the scenario in question ....plain and simple ...i repeat again.. if a S-300 missile locks onto a IAF aircraft ..what are the chances of the machines survival ???

50/50 all depends on the skill of both the fired upon and the fired on the range, the height of the fired upon aircraft the terrain etc etc whatever the version of SAM it has remained 50/50
so go figure.


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PostPosted: 05 Dec 2011 12:44 
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I have doubts .The specs of solid fuel missile used in AD talks about mach5 -6 .Then what's hypersonic missile, does the the earlier one talk about instant velocities not sustained ones


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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2011 01:10 
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Vivek ji, we are eagerly waiting for the scenario to move forward.


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