Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

The Military Issues & History Forum is a venue to discuss issues relating to the military aspects of the Indian Armed Forces, whether the past, present or future. We request members to kindly stay within the mandate of this forum and keep their exchanges of views, on a civilised level, however vehemently any disagreement may be felt. All feedback regarding forum usage may be sent to the moderators using the Feedback Form or by clicking the Report Post Icon in any objectionable post for proper action. Please note that the views expressed by the Members and Moderators on these discussion boards are that of the individuals only and do not reflect the official policy or view of the Bharat-Rakshak.com Website. Copyright Violation is strictly prohibited and may result in revocation of your posting rights - please read the FAQ for full details. Users must also abide by the Forum Guidelines at all times.
Post Reply
JTull
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3113
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 11:31

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by JTull »

:lol:
Pranav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5280
Joined: 06 Apr 2009 13:23

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Pranav »

I hope nobody is presuming that it will be free of Trojans!
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Cain Marko »

Singha wrote:MKI or any fighter radar is not the ideal for side sweeping large swathes of territory and keeping it under observation because it would need to point its nose. the side looking radar of proper platforms like E8 and Sentinel are what generates huge sweep areas and allows a racetrack path to keep it under constant watch. so using MKI is a non-starter, even if it had the sensitve SAR/GMTI modes which it probably does not. onboard power and endurance is also a concern - we know the MKI does not have enough power as is to run even the Irbis let alone the Irbis-E.....will need pwr system overhaul and more engine for that like Su35BM has. the side looking radar has a much bigger 'aperture' than fighter dishes and likely way more range.

coming to airborne control (more controllers) vs downlink to ground station, I agree that in Indic context where we are not looking to advance 1000km into enemy territory, ground based processing should be ok for us, if the fat wireless pipes are ok in bad weather (this is a must , the bw must not degrade beyond a point UNLIKE my tata sky dish that loses satellite in heavy rains and blacks out for a while until it regains) :((
Hmm, I am not so sure that it might not work. I always wondered why something like a KA 31 "oko" type cannot be configured for the MKI, would've been great for IN carrier borne AEW. The MKI has two inherent strengths - tremendous range/endurance (unlike the KA 31), and thanks to extra power + ceiling, the range should be a lot more. With the BARS covering the frontal arc, perhaps two underwing or one fuselage mounted radar might provide coverage for the remaining sectors.

Just a fantasy I s'pose. But this might be a more realistic option via sukhoi.org:

Image
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12187
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

If the basic airframe has flown, then the AEW version can be considered. Else no reason why the same concept cannot be implemented on the Rustom XXX or the global hawk.

Otherwise you are looking at the project being completed with Indian money onlee. With India being the sole user.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

MKI to be carrier borne needs atleast a kuznetsov sized carrier and for effective payload a catapult not ski ramp. niether is there.
no news on sukhoi zond uav's after the models.... I dont know whats holding Rus back from large UAV work and the even the Mig SKAT ucav was a model only :(

maybe we can rope them in to speed up rustom HALE ? the AL55 engine could be suitable?
vishnu.nv
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 19:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by vishnu.nv »

Image

how about this for carriers?
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5350
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Cain Marko »

Well it need not be Sukhoi built, I was just throwing an idea around. UAVs certainly don't seem to be a Roosi strength, iirc, they are now buying Herons. Also, I don't think they consider UAV development that crucial, not yet. Their strategic forces carry more priority, followed by bread/butter stuff - subs/pakfa/SAMs.

Re. MKI being Vikad capable - don't think TWR is such an issue, the Su-33 is worse off iirc in this dept. Problem would be in stowing the a/c. And if needed, a few airframes could always be fitted with something more powerful (AL-31 FM3 for e.g.). Question - a lot os CV images show a/c on deck, couldn't a few MKI/AEW be anchored on deck to avoid stowage problems?

The osprey idea is interesting, I wonder if those massive propellers would make some difference to radar emissions?
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20772
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Karan M »

Pranav wrote:
I hope nobody is presuming that it will be free of Trojans!
Yes, it will be full of trojans and you know better than the IAF. Congratulations.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20772
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Karan M »

Pratyush wrote:If the basic airframe has flown, then the AEW version can be considered. Else no reason why the same concept cannot be implemented on the Rustom XXX or the global hawk.

Otherwise you are looking at the project being completed with Indian money onlee. With India being the sole user.
The Russians have had serious control issues with even some of their basic UAV designs, let alone flying such advanced ones with heavy loads on top!
Nick_S
BRFite
Posts: 533
Joined: 23 Jul 2011 16:05
Location: Abbatabad

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Nick_S »

Cain Marko wrote:The osprey idea is interesting, I wonder if those massive propellers would make some difference to radar emissions?
Osprey does seem like a good idea for our STOBAR carriers.

The propellers are probably made of composites. Radar would mostly just pass through.
Gilles
BRFite
Posts: 517
Joined: 08 Nov 2009 08:25

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Gilles »

Karan M wrote:
Pranav wrote:
Karan M wrote: I hope nobody is presuming that it will be free of Trojans!
Yes, it will be full of trojans and you know better than the IAF. Congratulations.
Its not like these things are unheard of.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... g-jet.html
CHINA claims to have found almost 30 surveillance bugs, including one in the headboard of the presidential bed, on a Boeing 767 that had just been delivered from America to serve as President Jiang Zemin's official aircraft.
The aircraft has been sitting on a military airstrip north of Beijing, unused with much of its upholstery and many of its fittings ripped out, since October when Chinese test pilots detected a strange and unfamiliar whine emanating from its body.
A search of the twin-engined aircraft, which was manufactured and fitted out in America, yielded 27 devices, according to Chinese officials, hidden in its seats, lavatory and panelling.
Beijing believes that the bugs were planted by the Central Intelligence Agency while the aircraft was undergoing conversion work in San Antonio, Texas.
The CIA refused to respond to the report. Bill Harlow, the spy agency's spokesman, said: "We never comment on allegations like these, as a matter of policy." The White House used almost identical words, saying: "We never discuss these types of allegations."
Kailash
BRFite
Posts: 1083
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 02:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Kailash »

^^^ Now who can we trust? Nobody

It is naive to think IAF did not do the necessary checks on a military aircraft similar to what Chinese did on their airforce one.
Kailash
BRFite
Posts: 1083
Joined: 07 Dec 2008 02:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Kailash »

hope this wasnt reported earlier..

Raytheon says India wants Airborne Radars
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10195
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by sum »

Kailash wrote:^^^ Now who can we trust? Nobody

It is naive to think IAF did not do the necessary checks on a military aircraft similar to what Chinese did on their airforce one.
One of my friends was mentioning about his acquaintances working in a DRDO lab at Hyderabad have their only job being poring through the code provided by the Israelis for various systems to search for backdoors and Trojans.

Am sure "debugging" teams from IB/MI/RAW/xxx do go through any newly imported equipment( esp planes etc) to check for physical bugs placed in the import.
Nick_S
BRFite
Posts: 533
Joined: 23 Jul 2011 16:05
Location: Abbatabad

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Nick_S »

Kailash wrote:hope this wasnt reported earlier..

Raytheon says India wants Airborne Radars
Please do not post articles/links from indiandefence.com . It is a paki owned site.
Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2223
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Kakarat »

Any News on the DRDO's EMB 145 AEW&C?
arya
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 82
Joined: 29 Oct 2009 17:48
Location: Kanyakubj Nagre

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by arya »

Kakarat wrote:Any News on the DRDO's EMB 145 AEW&C?
:D Jee Huzoor Khuda ne Barkat ata farmai "Jasusi Tiyaara-a- Hindustan" Hazir hai
pese-e-khidmat hai http://tarmak007.blogspot.com/2011/11/i ... ly-in.html
tarmak007 ke janib se, Sukriya bhaizaan
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4040
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by suryag »

Sweet !!! Hope CABS engineers are all well prepared to integrate and get going quickly. Wonder how/how much/when they tested the AAAU.
Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Shrinivasan »

^^^ TARMAK007 has started a AWACS Namakaran request! Request Jingos to suggest Ppropriate names, my vote for Garuda!!!
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17167
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

trust them to pick sanjay.
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4040
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by suryag »

Garuda sounds awesome, sanjaya(after the character in mahabharatha) could be added to the list too. I guess mods should start a new thread,
PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

Rahul M wrote:trust them to pick sanjay.
Sanjay is great!

Doordarshan? :rotfl:
rsharma
BRFite
Posts: 271
Joined: 02 Aug 2006 22:14
Location: Hidden Markov Model

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by rsharma »

Shrinivasan wrote:^^^ TARMAK007 has started a AWACS Namakaran request! Request Jingos to suggest Ppropriate names, my vote for Garuda!!!
" MATALI " - Charioteer of Indra; the one who is bestowed with cognizance of all directions..
kmkraoind
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3908
Joined: 27 Jun 2008 00:24

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by kmkraoind »

Shrinivasan wrote:^^^ TARMAK007 has started a AWACS Namakaran request! Request Jingos to suggest Ppropriate names, my vote for Garuda!!!
Bali/Vali. Son of God Surya, able to grasp half of opponent's energy, only vincible to god/Rama himself with careful strategy. Garuda is a bit overkill, may be the big bird Phalcon deserves it.
rsharma
BRFite
Posts: 271
Joined: 02 Aug 2006 22:14
Location: Hidden Markov Model

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by rsharma »

kmkraoind wrote:
Shrinivasan wrote:^^^ TARMAK007 has started a AWACS Namakaran request! Request Jingos to suggest Ppropriate names, my vote for Garuda!!!
Garuda is a bit overkill, may be the big bird Phalcon deserves it.
IMHO, "Garuda" must be reserved for the offensive/strike a/c, maybe the FGFA should/would be named "Garuda"
koti
BRFite
Posts: 1118
Joined: 09 Jul 2009 22:06
Location: Hyderabad, India

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by koti »

Cain Marko wrote: Re. MKI being Vikad capable - don't think TWR is such an issue, the Su-33 is worse off iirc in this dept. Problem would be in stowing the a/c. And if needed, a few airframes could always be fitted with something more powerful (AL-31 FM3 for e.g.). Question - a lot os CV images show a/c on deck, couldn't a few MKI/AEW be anchored on deck to avoid stowage problems?
Though it is possible and often done in times of war, it has severe penalties too.
First, the added weight of the carrier, lessening the amount of fuel
(aviation fuel) available for the other a/c effectively having to put up similar sortie numbers as with the standard complement, added weapons for these planes, added man hours for the maintenance crew, added quarters for the additional men that will be needed etc.
Last edited by koti on 23 Nov 2011 15:37, edited 2 times in total.
vishnu.nv
BRFite
Posts: 168
Joined: 22 Aug 2007 19:32

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by vishnu.nv »

Vithur ..... the who has the divine senses.
member_20067
BRFite
Posts: 627
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by member_20067 »

Image

Peace Eagle from Turkey
prabhug
BRFite
Posts: 177
Joined: 05 Dec 2008 14:31

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by prabhug »

i would prefer a real and a existing ones name than a mythological name with mystical powers
neerajb
BRFite
Posts: 853
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 14:18
Location: Delhi, India.

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by neerajb »

Shivji's (not the BR one) Teesri Aankh 'Trayambakam' for the destruction of enemies (When opened).

Cheers....
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17167
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

PratikDas wrote:
Rahul M wrote:trust them to pick sanjay.
Sanjay is great!

Doordarshan? :rotfl:
and the datalink would be called akashvani ? :lol:
Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Shrinivasan »

Garuda is my first choice... another choice would be "Rajali" meaning "Royal Eagle", I also considered Jatayu and Sampati but dropped these... IAF names our birds after Indian Myths onlee...
Kersi D
BRFite
Posts: 1444
Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Rahul M wrote:
PratikDas wrote: Doordarshan? :rotfl:
and the datalink would be called akashvani ? :lol:
No DOORDARSHAN !!!
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4040
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by suryag »

mera din ban gaya doston

check out the rajali/airavat or whatever

Indian aew bird first flight
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

wow - most aew incl the chini y8 have a line of blade antennas on the fuselage spine. but ours are more longer and on the tail...
karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 704
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by karan_mc »

DRDO EMB 145I AEW&C Successfully completes first flight
Embraer performed the maiden flight, today, of the first of three EMB 145 Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) aircraft ordered by the Indian government. The flight was well performed and all planned tests were successfully achieved. It tooked place at Embraer’s headquarters, in São José do Campos.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Boreas
BRFite
Posts: 315
Joined: 23 Jan 2011 11:24

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Boreas »

its a mean looking bird.. Bravo :D
sum
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10195
Joined: 08 May 2007 17:04
Location: (IT-vity && DRDO) nagar

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ Holy moly...is there any inch on that beast which isnt bristling with antennas?
karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 704
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by karan_mc »

Image
Post Reply