Indian Interests

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Sanku
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

ManjaM wrote: Sorry boss, there are a million billion videos on the interwebz of gori nautch kudis doing nanga naach for money. Whats with the feigned horror??!!
Horror is because these particular tribals are supposed to have zero contacts with others, and GoI was supposed to ensure that, however some sick people (apparently goras from UK) turned a protected area into their personal nautch club, by bribing their way in and forcing the tribals to dance for them.

That is disgusting and sick, that people could so debase one of last isolated islands of innocence.

Ack thoo on whoever did this.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by hnair »

ManjaM, one need to look beyond the boobies in this case. I mean, we all welcomed (sort of) Karen Malhotra recently, despite her munching carpets and banana-splitting in the net, didn't we? She seems a self-confident 30 year old, who knows the risks and rewards of her actions, unlike the Jarawas.

That Jarawa incident is nothing more than FB-ization of a tribe that used to yearn (and guaranteed by GoI) for their own way of life and some Indians(greasy tour operators?) themselves facilitated this. The natives got reduced to being the equivalent of the hispanic guys who dress up as Dora The Explorer or Mickey Mouse at US amusement parks in Florida and LA.

I feel similar when I see struggling artists in Kerala dress up as Theyyam (a very spiritual aspect of life in Malabar) or Kathakali and pose for photographs with tourists of all kind. But then like Karen-amma, these Kerala artists are sort of doing this rather voluntarily, to make ends meet in a highly consumerist society like Kerala and trying to explore a financial model for survival of their art forms.

But the Jarawas dont live in a consumerist society. So someone is making them do this, despite GoI protestations to other fellow Indians that we should not say howdy to these fellow Indians!! For the goras who came by to watch the dance, it is nothing more than watching a circus performance where natives perform for their enjoyment. They dont care about any spiritual traditions of the Jarawas nor passing on infections etc.
Last edited by hnair on 13 Jan 2012 02:15, edited 1 time in total.
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

The Orissa Govt Tourism ad on TV is also trying to promtoe 'exotic' Orissa with similar imagery.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article ... 73,00.html
Disciple of Warren Buffett's Finds His Own Way of Giving Back
When Mohnish Pabrai was a child he was lucky enough to attend an elite private school in his hometown of Mumbai, India. For several years, he sat next to a classroom window that overlooked an immense slum that flooded during monsoons and blistered in the heat. Every day, he watched as the slum's inhabitants struggled with basic survival. Only 10 feet away from this destitution, young Pabrai felt as if there was an unbridgeable gulf between him and the caste of Indians known as "the untouchables." "Not once did any teacher ever acknowledge there was anything worth looking at out that window," Pabrai says. "You had the constant smell of raw sewage, but it was never mentioned." ecades later, Pabrai, now 47, is doing more than reminisce about the horrors he witnessed outside that window. A wealthy hedge fund manager, Pabrai has come up with a way to lift some of the most desperately poor children out of those slums. By creating The Dakshana Foundation, a market-based philanthropy with clear and sustainable objectives that are easy to measure, Pabrai is sending hundreds of Indian students to the country's most elite technical university — and therefore giving them a shot at a life-changing career. It would certainly be simple for someone like Pabrai never to look back. As the managing partner at Pabrai Investment Funds in Irvine, California, he is a millionaire many times over. Pabrai was once featured in Forbes magazine in his pajamas, a symbol of the easy life, and in 2008, he shelled out $320,050 to have lunch with his business idol, Warren Buffett (whose investment style Pabrai emulated with his family of hedge funds). Yet, he says that vision of poverty he witnessed through his classroom window has haunted him all these years: "In some subconscious way that permeated and influenced me."
Inspired by Buffett's decision to donate his fortune to the Gates Foundation, Pabrai and his wife, Harina Kapoor, decided they would start giving away roughly $1 million a year as their net worth crossed $50 million. Although at first he wasn't sure how to give away his money, he knew he wanted to be able to quantify his charitable offerings rather than use them to just sit on a museum board with other wealthy investors. He also looked at simply writing a check as an old man's sport. "I have the energy of a lifetime to build something," he says. "I can start experimenting now with the clear understanding that many of my experiments will fail." A firm believer in education as a golden ticket, in 2007 Pabrai set about establishing special two-year boarding
Pabrai focuses on older students already attending the Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalaya (JNV), a government-funded rural school system. Dakshana plucks the top 10% of the approximately 40,000 kids who take a 10th grade government exam, and offers them an IQ test and entrance exam. The top students from this round are then offered room and board in eight countrywide campuses and full-time coaches to prepare for the IIT exam two years later. In a unique collaboration, the JNV system pays for the room and board, but Dakshana pays for the top-notch education, the exam fees and, according to Colonel Sharma, some extras like quality food and medicine. Once the student is accepted into the IITs or NITs, Dakshana will help with grants and scholarships for out-of-pocket expenses
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

A great achievement to be proud of for Indians.


Eradicating polio in India
A major milestone in polio eradication
T. Jacob John


While one year has passed without polio caused by natural poliovirus, we can claim complete eradication only after we ensure the absence of wild and vaccine polioviruses in the population.

Today, India passes one whole year without polio caused by natural (wild) poliovirus — a major milestone towards polio eradication. This spells relief from an agonising decade of wild polioviruses refusing to surrender. Many experts believed that India posed the greatest challenge to polio eradication for epidemiological reasons; our success proves it can be achieved in other countries where the obstacles are more programmatic than biological. For the Global Polio Eradication Initiative (GPEI), this is a shot in the arm.

The decade of agony

The year 2000 was the target date for global eradication set by the World Health Assembly in 1988. Intense efforts by countries, guided by GPEI, resulted in success in most countries and partial success in all countries. Of the 3 types of polioviruses, type 2 was globally eradicated in 1999 — with the last case in Uttar Pradesh. But transmission of types 1 and 3 continued in six countries. Later, two more succeeded, leaving India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria with continuing transmission beyond 2005. In India, during the last decade, over 95 per cent of cases occurred in U.P. and Bihar — arguably the world's most difficult spots for eradication. In 2000 and 2001, there were 265 and 268 cases but in 2002 an outbreak occurred with 1600 cases, mostly type 1. Then, the numbers dwindled to 225 and 134 in 2003 and 2004, and 66 in 2005. All hopes of success were shattered by another polio outbreak in 2006, with 648 cases of type 1 and 28 of type 3 polio.

Since type 1 showed a cyclical nature of outbreaks every fourth year — 1998, 2002 and 2006 — the next outbreak in 2010 had to be averted at all costs. Type 2 had taught us that sequential eradication of one type at a time was realistic. So type 1 was targeted and the tactics paid off — we had less than 100 cases each during 2007-2009, 18 in 2010 and just one case on January 13, 2011 — none since.

Type 3 cases were less than 10 in 2004 and 2005. Unfortunately, while type 1 was singled out for attack, type 3 outbreaks developed, first in Bihar (2007-08) and then in U.P. (2008-09). So in 2010, there was yet another change of tactic, now focussing on type 3 along with type 1. There were 24 cases of type 3 in 2010 and none in 2011. In U.P., the last wild virus polio was reported on April 21, 2010 and in Bihar on September 1, 2010 — both type 3. So we have now come 20 months without a case in U.P. and 15 months in Bihar. The case of January 13, 2011, was reported not from U.P. or Bihar, but from Howrah in West Bengal.

Problems & innovative solutions

By 1988, nearly 70 countries had achieved the elimination of wild poliovirus transmission through their routine national immunisation programmes, some using the inactivated poliovirus vaccine (IPV) but others using the oral poliovirus vaccine (OPV). For countries with polio, the World Health Organisation recommended the exclusive use of OPV for its low cost and ease of inoculation by mouth — as two drops. On the flip side, the very fact that many countries using OPV could not control polio with routine immunisation indicated that it was not as effective as in other countries. The difference was clear: tropical/ subtropical countries with low income, overcrowding, high birth rates, and high child mortality faced low effectiveness of OPV, whereas those with the opposites had high vaccine effectiveness.

In India, the disparities of such factors spelt differential effectiveness among States. Not only did some communities exhibit lower vaccine effectiveness, they also had more intense wild virus transmission. The conjunction of both problems made U.P. and Bihar stand out as the most difficult regions for polio eradication. Indian scientists had actually warned the GPEI of such pitfalls but global leaders from rich countries couldn't believe that such extreme variations could exist with wild virus epidemiology and vaccine effectiveness. Once that lesson was learned, the progress was rapid.

Wild polioviruses exist in 3 types, and OPV also contains attenuated strains of the 3 types. So it is called trivalent OPV (tOPV). Among the 3 types, type 2 is the most efficient; that was why type 2 wild virus disappeared in 1999, within a few years of national pulse vaccinations. But type 2 in the tOPV also interferes with the others, making them very inefficient. From 2000, the frequency of campaigns with tOPV was increased in U.P. and Bihar, but to no avail. Type 2 had to be removed from tOPV to get the best out of types 1 and 3. In 2005 and thereafter, a new monovalent type 1 OPV (mOPV-1) was used in U.P. and Bihar — it is three times more effective than tOPV. This was one factor of success. But gaps in immunity were created against type 3; consequently, type 3 outbreaks occurred in 2007-2009. Then, a bivalent vaccine (bOPV with 1 and 3) was developed. It was non-inferior to mOPV-1 or mOPV-3. From early 2010, bOPV has been widely used in U.P. and Bihar during campaigns, while tOPV is used everywhere for routine immunisation.

While the problem of “failure of vaccine” was being addressed, there was also the problem of “failure to vaccinate”. Seasonally, millions of families from U.P. and Bihar migrate for work — some to Maharashtra or Punjab, others within their States. Their children missed both routine and campaign doses. The tactic of vaccination in transit — in trains/buses and in stone quarries/brick kilns — became the norm from 2005. As all bottlenecks were cleared, success ensued.
Tribute to the nation

Many global experts marvel at the ability of Indians to work with diligence and sincerity, and at India's tenacity in spite of pessimistic prophecies of failure. So a tribute is due: to the families of children and all workers, district managers — medical and administrative — State leadership, the National Polio Surveillance Project personnel, the Government of India staff working alongside the global polio partners, WHO, UNICEF, Rotary International and the U.S. Centres for Disease Control, and the vaccine manufacturers who up-scaled production on demand, and filled the prescriptions for mOPV-1 and 3 and for bOPV. All of them deserve our applause and gratitude.

In many other programmes in India, poor implementation is the oft-repeated reason for failures and delays. The success of implementation depends on the design of the programme and proper supervision of activities. The government must learn and apply this lesson in all other faltering health projects — against TB, malaria, child mortality and under-nutrition.

What next?

For certification of eradication, two more years should pass without any case of wild virus polio. Poliovirus can remain silently in circulation for short periods; so, complacency must not set in. We must continue working as if we still have poliovirus lurking somewhere, only to show up when least expected. There is also the threat of importation of wild virus from Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria.

Vaccine viruses by themselves can rarely cause polio; the balance is roughly one case of vaccine-associated paralytic polio (VAPP) replacing 200 cases of wild virus polio. Yet, in the absence of wild virus polio, VAPP is unacceptable. Moreover, vaccine viruses may gradually revert to wild-like properties if allowed to circulate. Such circulating vaccine-derived polioviruses (cVDPV) cropped up in many OPV-using countries recently, including India since 2009. If allowed to grow, they can capture the niche vacated by wild viruses. We have to stop OPV to stop VAPP, but some cVDPV may already be in silent circulation to show up in outbreaks one or more years later. The safest solution is to introduce IPV, reach 90 per cent or more coverage and only then stop OPV. That will pre-empt the evolution of cVDPVs. Only after we ensure the absence of wild and vaccine polioviruses in the population can we claim complete success of polio eradication. That is the challenge of the present decade.

(The author was professor of clinical virology in the Christian Medical College, Vellore until retirement, and has served on several Global and National Committees on Immunisation and Polio Eradication.)
Awesome advice and guidance to keep a watch on the scourge of polio.
Prem
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

debadutta
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by debadutta »

ramana wrote:The Orissa Govt Tourism ad on TV is also trying to promtoe 'exotic' Orissa with similar imagery.
I have seen the ad and did not find anything offensive. The key difference is that unlike the Jarwas, who are totally isolated from the out side world, the adivasis of odisha are not isolated and interact with the rest of the world on a day to day basis.
Hopefully the ads will attract visitors to visit these areas, which in turn will improve the financial position of the residents.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

India: obscene pics of gods require massive human censorship of Google, Facebook
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... cebook.ars
hardly the sort of Internet policy statement one hopes to hear from judges in major democracies. "Like China, we can block all such websites [who don't comply]," Justice Suresh Cait told Facebook and Google lawyers in India yesterday. "But let us not go to that situation." No, let's not. But it's what the government wants if Internet companies won't start screening and censoring all user-generated material on social network and user-generated content sites. And they'd better do their screening by hand, not with machines.Between January and June 2011, India requested that Google remove 358 bits of content by filing 68 different complaints. One was from Google Maps (for "national security"); almost every other was from YouTube, social network Orkut, and Google's Blogger platform. Almost none came with a court order.
"We received requests from state and local law enforcement agencies to remove YouTube videos that displayed protests against social leaders or used offensive language in reference to religious leaders," Google explained. As the Financial Times "beyondbrics" blog notes, the Internet companies are coming under increasing attack for content they host, despite the vagueness of the demands for censorship. For instance, "Last month, a lower court had ordered the sites to remove all 'anti-social' or 'anti-religious' content by February 6. As Sunil Abraham, executive director of the Bangalore-based Centre for Internet & Society, told beyondbrics last month, it’s difficult to establish exactly what is anti-religious: for example, the Hindu profession of belief in multiple gods is blasphemous to Muslims, Christians and Jews."
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

Jhujar wrote:India: obscene pics of gods require massive human censorship of Google, Facebook
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... cebook.ars
For instance, "Last month, a lower court had ordered the sites to remove all 'anti-social' or 'anti-religious' content by February 6. As Sunil Abraham, executive director of the Bangalore-based Centre for Internet & Society, told beyondbrics last month, it’s difficult to establish exactly what is anti-religious: for example, the Hindu profession of belief in multiple gods is blasphemous to Muslims, Christians and Jews."

Hindus are already there is almost all countries in the world and they worship multiple gods. Is the presence of Hindus in these lands blasphemous to Muslims, Christians and Jews.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by abhishek_sharma »

Delhi Confidential
Oh Jerusalem

Foreign Minister S M Krishna had ensured that he made a stopover in Palestine as well after his visit to Israel recently. But that doesn’t seem to have satisfied the Jamaat-e-Islami Hind which has condemned the Israel visit. The organisation has said Krishna’s visit had hurt the sentiments of 20 crore Muslims of the country in light of “Israel’s evil designs on Al Aqsa Mosque” in Jerusalem. The Urdu media has been reporting with some concern that Krishna’s visit to Israel was not the only one and that it is to be followed by more ministerial visits, including those of Kapil Sibal and Kamal Nath.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Prem »

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/ ... 010912.php
Eyeing resources, India, China, Brazil, Japan, other countries want a voice on Arctic CouncilWith an eye on rapid changes in the resource-rich Arctic, countries like China, India and Brazil, which have no Arctic territories, are nonetheless knocking on the door of the increasingly influential Arctic Council looking for admission as permanent observers.The issue has divided existing members, with Russia and Canada most strongly opposed. It is among the major questions with which Canada will have to grapple as it prepares to chair the Council next year.
It will also feature prominently on the agenda of a two-day meeting on the future of the Arctic Council, January 17-18 in Toronto: The 2nd annual Munk-Gordon Arctic Security Conference, which has attracted the participation of several experts, national ambassadors and indigenous leaders -- more than 100 participants from 15 nations in all. Full members of the Arctic Council are Canada, Russia, the United States, Norway, Finland, Sweden, Iceland and Denmark (Greenland) – the eight countries with Arctic territory. Six northern indigenous groups – the Inuit Circumpolar Council, Arctic Athabaska Council, Gwich'in Council International, Sami Council, Russian Association of the Indigenous Peoples of the North (RAIPON) and Aleut International Association – wield strong influence as permanent participants. The Arctic Council is the only international organization that gives indigenous peoples a formal place at the table. Another six non-Arctic nations sit in as observers today: the U.K., France, Germany, Spain, Poland and the Netherlands.However, many more non-Arctic countries, which in addition to China, India and Brazil, include Japan, South Korea, the European Union and several individual European states, now want "observer" status, a step that some fear would significantly increase the influence of non-Arctic participants.Many non-Arctic countries are interested in the Arctic as the "canary in the coal mine" that can teach them about how climate change will impact their own states. They are also interested in the potential access to the vast hydrocarbons and resources in the region and the cost-savings of using shorter Arctic shipping routes.
China has a research station in Norway's northern Svalbard Islands and is building an 8,000 tonne icebreaker.
A survey last year by the Munk-Gordon Arctic Security Program found that Arctic residents view China as the least attractive potential partner in the region.Canada and Russia are the strongest opponents of expansion. Some fear a greatly enlarged contingent of observers would overwhelm the current members, particularly the indigenous groups. Others, however, warn that if the non-Arctic states aren't allowed at the table, they'll take Arctic concerns to other international bodies such as the United Nations General Assembly, and the Council's influence would diminish. On the other hand, membership fees charged to additional observers could help support the participation of the indigenous groups.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by nawabs »

Blocking objectionable content on Internet
http://www.asianage.com/columnists/ban- ... ed-web-787

On Monday, January 16, 2012, the Delhi high court will continue hearing arguments about whether social media websites, web-hosting companies, and Internet search engines, which are located abroad, can be forced to block access to content deemed objectionable by the Indian government.

On Thursday, January 12, 2012, Justice Suresh Kait warned the Indian subsidiaries of Facebook and Google: “You must have a stringent check. Otherwise, like in China, we may pass orders banning all such websites… You must have a mechanism to develop a check and remove such offending articles while simultaneously taking action against the person who is the author of such
articles…”
On Friday, January 13, 2012, the Union government gave its sanction for the prosecution of 21 organisations (Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Yahoo, You Tube, Orkut, BlogSpot, etc.) for offences of promoting enmity between classes and causing prejudice to national integration. “The sanctioning authority… is satisfied that there is sufficient material to proceed against the accused persons under Sections 153-A, 153-B and 295-A of the IPC,” ordered Delhi metropolitan magistrate Sudesh Kumar.
But technical measures will not prevent Indian residents from accessing content considered objectionable by the Indian government. They can do so by going via anonymisers or proxy servers, or through peer networks. They can also access mirror sites, or the versions cached by automated search engines as they crawl the Web.
Some recent instances illustrate that it is difficult to prevent Indian residents from accessing hate speech hosted on servers abroad, especially in the US, where hate speech is protected by the First Amendment to the US Constitution.

The extreme Hindutva website http://www.hinduunity.org spreads hatred against Muslims and Christians in India, as well as against the advocates of secularism. It has called for the assassination of Sonia Gandhi, Mulayam Singh Yadav, Lalu Prasad Yadav, Mani Shankar Aiyar, Shabana Azmi, Shah Rukh Khan, etc. The website is hosted by a Zion supremacist organisation in the US.
The website http://www.dalitstan.org, which was hosted in the US, advocated the secession of Kerala, Tamil Nadu and Karnataka from the Union of India. It also spread hatred against upper-caste Hindus. US human rights organisations classified it as a hate group. Its advocating of secession is a criminal offence under Indian laws, but is protected speech in the US.
After the Mumbai train bombings of July 2006, India’s Computer Emergency Response Team issued a direction to all Indian Internet service providers to block access to both the websites.
However, recently cached versions on search engines such as Google, Yahoo, Bing etc can be immediately seen by Indian subscribers. Further, http://www.hinduunity.org has an active community on Facebook.
The website http://www.dalitstan.org disappeared because its organisers ran out of money. However, cached versions on search engines such as Google, Yahoo, Bing, etc can be accessed easily by Indian residents. Also http://www.dalitstan.org has an active community on Facebook. Further mirror sites of its archives dating back to 1996 have been set up all over the world in different jurisdictions, which are readily accessible by Indian residents.
The issues before the Delhi high court on hate speech and applicability of Indian laws to entities located abroad have been addressed by French and American courts. An auction website run by Yahoo Inc of the US, hosted on servers in the US, offered Nazi items for sale by various individuals located all over the world. However, France has strict laws against selling or displaying anything that incites racism, especially Nazi items.
In April 2000, the International League Against Racism and Anti-Semitism (LICRA) sued Yahoo in a French court, arguing that its auction websites offering Nazi items could be accessed by subscribers in France. (Ligue contre le racisme et l’antisémitisme et Union des étudiants juifs de France c. Yahoo! Inc et Société Yahoo! France)
Yahoo’s defences were that first, their servers were located in US territory, and second, that the First Amendment to the United States Constitution guaranteed freedom of speech and expression, and that any attempt to enforce a French judgment in the US would fail for unconstitutionality.
The French court in May 2000 ruled that Yahoo! Inc, located in the US, had to take all appropriate measures to prevent French residents from viewing Nazi memorabilia, no matter where the persons offering the items for sale were located. Yahoo! contended that it was impossible to comply with this order. But the French court noted that technologies were then being developed by other companies by using which around 70 per cent of French Internet users could be identified by their Internet Protocol addresses. The French court imposed a penalty on Yahoo! USA of 100,000 francs per day that it did not implement such filtering technologies, but ruled that the executives of Yahoo! USA were not guilty of criminal charges in France.
Instead of appealing against this ruling in a higher French court, Yahoo! appealed in a US district court in California. Judge Jeremy Fogel of the US district court ruled that the French court’s decision was inconsistent with the First Amendment to the US Constitution, relating to freedom of expression, and that consequently it was not applicable in the US.
LICRA appealed to the US court of appeals, which ruled in 2006 that LICRA did not have jurisdiction in the US to file such an appeal. However, the US circuit court of appeals split ruling about Yahoo’s defence of freedom of speech under the First Amendment further added to the legal confusion:
“Yahoo! is necessarily arguing that it has a First Amendment right to violate French criminal law and to facilitate the violation of French criminal law by others. [...] the extent — indeed the very existence — of such an extraterritorial right under the First Amendment is uncertain.” The US Supreme Court declined to review the ruling of the US court of appeals.
This leaves uncertain the defences of the 21 companies accused by the Delhi court, that they are protected under the US First Amendment, since it is not clear whether or not the US First Amendment is applicable to content accessed outside the US, as per the 2006 ruling of the US court of appeals.
However, if the Delhi high court were to order the web-hosting companies, located in the US, to block access to content deemed offensive by the Indian government, such an Indian judgment would be unenforceable in the US, as it would be unconstitutional on US territory as per the ruling of the US district court.
On the other hand, if the Indian complainants in the present matter were to seek to prosecute these 21 companies in the US, the precedents of the LICRA-Yahoo case would seem to indicate that the Indian complainants would not have jurisdiction to do so in the US, as the cause of action — the access to the objectionable material — would have arisen in India and not the US.
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Wonder is B Raman types will declare BR as objectionable media?
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

ramana wrote:Wonder is B Raman types will declare BR as objectionable media?
Anything that comes in the way of kelptocratic loot by INC will be considered objectionable by its lackeys
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by devesh »

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/ap-3-pastors ... 0-114.html

AP: 3 pastors booked for money circulation fraud
WARANGAL: A special investigating police team has been sent to Ongole in Prakasam district to catch the kingpins of the money circulation scheme which has shaken Warangal district.

According to Hanamkonda deputy superintendent of police R Veereswara Rao, several pastors in Warangal district were involved in the money circulation racket which had its origin in Ongole.

Some pastors, promising to pay double the amount after 11 months, collected deposits from those visiting churches in the name of Little Lamb Baptist Church Ministries of Ongole. And people easily fell into the trap as they were pastors. Basing on a complaint lodged by the victims, police took Gangarapu Anil Kumar of Vaddepalli in Warangal town. He worked as a pastor at Damera in Elukaturthi mandal in Karimnagar district.

During inquiry, police came to know the involvement of many other pastors. Following a complaint that Narsampet pastor Wilson Peter too collected money in the name of Heavenly Interdenominal Mission Trust, police registered a case against Peter.
Similarly, they booked a case against David, a pastor at the church at Chalvai in Govindraopet mandal. Police are inquiring about others involved in the scandal.

The pastors had been telling people that their trusts were receiving money from foreign countries and that they were launching such schemes for the benefit of the poor.

when YSR was in power, such action by police would have been unthinkable. the very notion of arresting anybody remotely associated with Christian hierarchies was basically "suicide" for those authorities. IMVHO, police at district and local level only act when there are hidden forces which are encouraging them to act. for the Andhra state police to track down the entire network spanning Telangana and Coastal Andhra, it means that they had strong motivation to do it and catch the perpetrators. very interesting!!!
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by merlin »

ramana wrote:Wonder is B Raman types will declare BR as objectionable media?
Boss, you still wonder? After all these years on BR I wonder why?
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by nawabs »

US lectures about Internet freedom but it's legislature itself is bringing in a censorship bill.

Basic info about about the 'PROTECT IP Act'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_IP_Act

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news ... es-too.ars
Surprise! After months in the oven, the soon-to-be-released new version of a major US Internet censorship bill didn't shrink in scope—it got much broader. Under the new proposal, search engines, Internet providers, credit card companies, and ad networks would all have cut off access to foreign "rogue sites"—and such court orders would not be limited to the government. Private rightsholders could go to court and target foreign domains, too.

As for sites which simply change their domain name slightly after being targeted, the new bill will let the government and private parties bring quick action against each new variation.

Get ready for the "PROTECT IP Act."
Targeting Google

A source in Washington provided Ars with a detailed summary of the PROTECT IP Act, which takes its acronym from "Preventing Real Online Threats to Economic Creativity and Theft of Intellectual Property." This beats the old acronym, COICA; who can be against protection? The actual legislation should be introduced shortly.

The bill is an attempt to deal with foreign sites which can be difficult for US enforcement to reach, even when those sites explicitly target US citizens.

The PROTECT IP Act makes a few major changes to last year's COICA legislation. First, it does provide a more limited definition of sites “dedicated to infringing activities.” The previous definition was criticized as being unworkably vague, and it could have put many legitimate sites at risk.

But what the PROTECT IP Act gives with one hand, it takes away with the other. While the definition of targeted sites is tighter, the remedies against such sites get broader. COICA would have forced credit card companies like MasterCard and Visa to stop doing business with targeted sites, and it would have prevented ad networks from working with such sites. It also suggested a system of DNS blocking to make site nominally more difficult to access.

The PROTECT IP Act adds one more entity to this list: search engines. Last week, when the Department of Homeland Security leaned on Mozilla to remove a Firefox add-on making it simple to bypass domain name seizures, we wondered at the request. After all, the add-on only made it easier to do a simple Google search, and we wondered "what the next logical step in this progression will be: requiring search engines to stop returning results for seized domain names?"

Turns out that's exactly what's being contemplated. According to the detailed summary of the PROTECT IP Act, this addition "responds to concerns raised that search engines are part of the ecosystem that directs Internet user traffic and therefore should be part of the solution."

Rightsholders also score a major victory with the new legislation, which grants them a private right of action—something Google publicly trashed as a terrible idea earlier this year. Copyright and trademark holders don't have to badger the government into targeting sites under the new bill; they are allowed to seek court orders directly, though these orders would only apply to payment processors and advertising networks (not to ISPs or search engines).
Help us out, please

The emphasis here is on forcing intermediaries to get involved in policing such sites. Rightsholders have had difficulty suing the millions of end users engaged in infringement, and they have had difficulty suing the sites themselves when they are based abroad. But MasterCard and Google? Those are easy, US-based targets who will comply will any law Congress passes.

The PROTECT IP Act goes even further than forcing these intermediaries to take action after a court order; it actively encourages them to take unilateral action without any sort of court order at all. The bill summary makes clear that ad networks and payment processors will be protected if they “voluntarily cease doing business with infringing websites, outside of any court ordered action.” If a search engine decides that the next YouTube is a copyright infringer—and rightsholders have often sued sites like Veoh and YouTube in the past—it can simply cut off advertising for that reason and be immunized under the law. So can Visa.

The bill also encourages everyone—domain name registries, search engines, payment processors, and ad networks—to cut off access to infringing sites that "endanger the public health." That is, online pharmacies (which are often hotbeds of counterfeiting).

Given the strong opinions elicited by the earlier COICA, the expansion of powers here is a bit surprising, but the continued presence of the legislation is not. That's because, no matter how much power and money Congress devotes to intellectual property, rightsholders are back every couple of years for more—as the NET Act, DMCA, Sonny Bono Term Extension Act, PRO-IP Act, and Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement (ACTA) remind us. Each is "essential"—but somehow never quite enough.
Arjun
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Arjun »

Minhaz has been among the handful of sane columnists in India to recognize the perversity of dynastism in Indian politics: On the Wrong Side of History
With five state assembly elections, including Uttar Pradesh, around the corner, 2012 will be a decisive year for Indian politics. But politicians in India are fortunate: they face an electorate which is relatively forgiving. Despite decades of crushing poverty, high illiteracy, shambolic infrastructure, poor healthcare and corrupt local administration in constituencies across the country, MPs are re-elected from their feudal pocket-boroughs in general election after general election.

What does that tell us about ourselves as a people? One, that we are tolerant – often of the wrong things. Two, that politicians take full advantage of this feudal inertia to pursue regressive politics. Minorities are appeased, not educated. Muslims continue to live in deep poverty. Dalits are given sops but not the education that would enable them – and Muslims – to become part of mainstream, progressive India. Instead they are offered quotas, creating a culture of dependency, not empowerment.

Most political leaders are guilty of this: Mayawati, Mulayam Singh Yadav, Karunanidhi. Some aren’t, but you can count them on the fingers of one hand. Nitish Kumar and Naveen Patnaik, for example, are known for their personal integrity. Their states, Bihar and Orissa, were among India’s most backward measured across a slew of social and economic parameters. They are today among the fastest-growing with progressive governance.

While Mayawati, Mulayam and Karunanidhi embody increasingly cynical misgovernance, the toxic impact of the Congress is felt on a much larger scale. The party has been in government for 52 of India’s 64 independent years. Under Indira Gandhi in the late-1960s, it established a political culture of sycophancy ("Indira is India") and corrupt governance (the Emergency was only an extreme manifestation). More recently, the party has tried to coerce institutions like the CBI, CVC and CAG. It took a strong leader like Vinod Rai to reassert CAG’s constitutional independence.

The authoritarian streak in the Congress is over 40 years old. Like all bad habits, it is difficult to break. That is why Congressmen (and women) are susceptible to autocracy. They hector those they consider subordinate and are craven before those they consider superior. It is the classical behaviour of the courtier – fawning and arrogant by turns.

The same character defect causes sniping and infighting at every level: ministers, MPs, party workers. When the prime minister’s own authority is diminished, inner-party discipline crumbles. Battered by scams, Congress spokespersons and ministers attempt to justify misconduct (for example, over CVC selection and the 2G spectrum and CWG cases) by saying the Opposition is guilty of similar crimes. This is an intellectually and morally bankrupt argument. By its flawed logic, every criminal can justify his crime by pointing to another criminal. Instead of raising the standard of political debate, Congress spokespersons daily lower it.

The underlying reason for this is the skewed relationship in India between rulers and the ruled. In evolved democracies, the relationship is set in stone: ministers serve the people who elect them. The word minister in Latin, from which it is derived, literally means servant (in a non-pejorative sense). In India the roles are reversed, rooted in the country’s long history of feudalism. The Congress and its dynastic copycats – from the DMK and the NCP to the SP and the RJD – have exploited this natural trait instead of trying to reform it.

Open government is good government. Secretiveness leads to misgovernance. The Right to Information (RTI) Act is a legislative corrective to this culture of secrecy but much more needs to be done voluntarily by the government to create a more open, participative peoples’ democracy. Information, as Thomas Jefferson said, is the currency of democracy. The right to know supersedes, in most cases, the right to privacy where public actions of public figures are involved.

The Prevention of Corruption Act (PCA) applies to all citizens, including the media and NGOs. Public servants, however, are immune. They won’t be any longer once a strong Lokpal bill is legislated. Indian parliamentarians have long been mollycoddled by such immunity. They behave irresponsibly in the House and their parties routinely give criminals tickets to contest elections: 162 MPs in the current Lok Sabha face criminal charges. Nothing could be more subversive of parliamentary democracy. Governance reforms are urgently needed to restore the public’s confidence in parliament. These include, first, making inner-party elections mandatory; second, imposing tenure limits on political party presidents; third, debarring candidates with serious criminal charges filed against them from contesting elections; and fourth, placing EC-registered political parties under concurrent statutory audit through an act of parliament.

Why do powerful leaders like Sonia Gandhi and L.K. Advani not expel tainted MPs in their parties who subvert parliament by their conduct in it and outside it? Parliament is a lawmaking body subservient to the will of the people who elect 543 MPs every Lok Sabha election to collectively represent them. It is certainly not supreme in absolute terms: it has a fixed term but on five occasions in the past (1967-71, 1977-79, 1989-91, 1996-98 and 1998-99) that term has been cut short by popular will.

India stands at a turning point. Those in government with a vested interest in a corrupt system will continue to decry the anti-corruption movement. But the momentum is unstoppable. Those who oppose it will rapidly discover, when they return to their constituencies to seek re-election in the weeks and months ahead, that they are on the wrong side of history.
Pranav
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Pranav »

Economist has a big feature on the UID scheme ... here is the part that causes most concern:
When an individual is enrolled, his biometric data must be compared with everyone else’s to ensure there is no duplication. Sometimes the workers who show people how to place their fingers on the scanner accidentally scan their own fingerprints. As enrolments hit a peak of about 1m a day, the system will need to carry out a staggering 14 billion matches per second.

This mighty task has been awarded to private contractors in an unusual way. There are three vendors: Accenture and L-1 Identity Solutions of America, plus Morpho of France. The firm that does the fastest, most accurate job gets 50% of the work; the others get 30% or 20%. This allocation is frequently reassessed, so if the second-best firm starts doing better, it picks up some work from the leading firm. This keeps everyone sharp.

http://www.economist.com/node/18010459
Thus foreign contractors appear to be getting access to biometric data.
Yayavar
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Yayavar »

Stan_Savljevic wrote:He is from Bihar, no questions about that.

He is one of those who did a cost-benefit calculation of the pak-e-satan project and showed clearly to the Muslims that the whole edifice is built on bunkum and will end up biting their backsides sooner than later. And he wrote that book when the brits had lodged him in jail. He was not a kandle kisser by any means, he was the Joe Frazier of his era. You should get his book for what a great first President we had. Ambedkar as Law minister, Rajendra Prasad as President, Radhakrishnan as Vice President, Sardar Patel as Home minister, GV Mavlankar as Speaker, and all scholars, erudites, and stalwarts in different dimensions. I have some special fondness for Ambedkar because of his deep erudition that set him far apart from most of the other members of the Constitution Committee. Truly, democracy set its roots because of such yeomen and women who drove India to what it is today, not because the Hindus want democrazy or Nehru planted democracy or the Army did nt intervene and other such wild hypotheses.
Am resurrecting an old post. In partition thread Brihaspatiji asked me to look up his posts here on Nehru around 15 Nov. So, I looked back for a good place to start and this seems it.

Stan I totally agree with you that these stalwarts planted the firm roots. There were some ancient roots (Panchayat), but also the 1935 dominion and earlier municipal elections that helped some in the inculcation of the idea in the general polity.
Rony
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Rony »

A old but very interesting article about the British strategy of dividing Hindus and Sikhs in Punjab.

A Lethal Cocktail Of Religion And Politics
Violence is just under the surface in Punjab where a divisive British legacy continues to thrive. The British supported the Tat Khalsa movement by insisting that only Khalsa Sikhs (those who sported the 5ks) could join the Army.

With the controversy over Dera Sacha Sauda leaders’s apparent imitation of the 10th Sikh Guru having died down it might be useful to know why a prosperous state like Punjab continues to erupt like this. This article recaps history of Punjab from the 1860’s to date, and includes a series of key events that have brought about the current situation.

Guru Gobind Singh started the Khalsa in 1699. According to tradition, its followers had to sport the five Ks i.e. Kesh-long hair, Kangha-comb, Kirpan-sword, Kara-steel bracelet, Kachcha-knickers. Long hair and turbans were supposed to protect faces and heads from sword cuts and lathi blows. The Kada was a reminder that Sikh spirit was strong and unbending. The Kacha was more suitable for fighting the Mughals in than the Dhotis and loose trousers of Muslims. The maximum numbers of Khalsa followers were Jats. Though others considered themselves Sikhs, they held back since they were not followers of the Khalsa.

Having experienced the strength of Sikh opposition during the Anglo-Sikh wars and grateful for the assistance received from Sikh princes during the Mutiny of 1857, the British realized that Sikhs could be an effective buffer between Afghanistan and India.

Therefore, British reduced the number of Bengali soldiers (involved in 1857 Mutiny) to be replaced by loyal Sikhs & Punjabi Muslims. As Veena Talwar wrote: "To prevent the sort of mutiny they experienced from sepoys in 1857, the British organized religiously segregated regimental units from the alleged martial races, Sikhs, Pathans, Rajputs etc. This severely restricted Hindus of other castes particularly Khatris (Punjabi form of Kshatriya), who had served in Maharaja Ranjit Singh's forces. Khatris (all Sikh Gurus were Khatris) were arbitrarily lumped together by the British as trading castes. Many families got around this artificially imposed caste barrier by raising one or more son as Sikhs, chiefly by having them adopt the name Singh and grow hair/beard to match". (Dowry Murder, the Imperial origins of a Cultural Crime).

Thus, the enlistment of Sikhs increased steeply. Joining the army was remunerative. Soldiers were well paid, given agricultural land and pension.

Around this time there was a fall in Sikh morale, stemmed by the Singh Sabha movement. Founded in 1873 it soon split into two. One, were Sanatani Sikhs who regarded the Panth as a special form of Hindu tradition. Two, were Tat (true) Khalsa, who believed that Sikhism was a different religion.

The British supported the Tat Khalsa movement by insisting only Khalsa Sikhs (those who sported the 5 Ks) could join the Army. A move to say Sikhs were not Hindus received an impetus in 1898 with Khan Singh Nabha’s book ‘Ham Hindu Nahin’, the passing of the Anand Marriage Act in 1909 as the only approved order for Sikh marriage and the insistence on the five Ks to distinguish Sikhs from Hindus.

It did not matter to the Tat Khalsa that the real name of Golden Temple is Hari Mandir and, “Of the 15,028 names of Gods that appear in the Adi Granth, Hari occurs over 8,000 times, Ram 2,533 times followed by Prabhu, Gopal, Govind and other Hindu names for the divine. The popular Sikh coinage Wah Guru appears only 16 times”. (Khushwant Singh).

After several decades, the Tat Khalsa emerged victorious. According to W. H. Mcleod, it ensured that “in 1905 idols were removed from the Harimandir”. (Historical Dictionary of Sikhism). Modern day Sikhism is a creation of this movement.

By about 1920, it was overtaken by the Akali Dal, a new political party that gave expression to the revived sense of Sikh identity. The Akalis entered into a dispute with the British for the control of Sikh Gurudwaras. Passing of the Sikh Gurudwaras Act in 1925 signalled their complete victory. The Act’s definition of a Sikh leant strongly towards the exclusivists Khalsa view.

To retain effective control over Punjab, the British drove a wedge between Jat and Khatris. They passed the Punjab Land Alienation Act of 1900, which created a favored, dominant, agriculturalist class and a non-agriculturists class. The former included Hindu & Sikh Jats, Muslim tribes and the latter Hindu Brahmins, Khatris and Banias. The Act made tribe and caste the basis of land ownership. British sought to anchor itself in Punjab by playing the distinctions between Hindu and Muslim while nurturing Muslim and Sikh Jats as loyal subjects.

In this manner, the British supported the Jat Sikhs who were the prime movers behind the Tat Khalsa movement.

The consequences were many. One, the birth of Akali Dal and its control over Gurudwaras heralded the tradition of mixing religion and politics. Control of the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee is key to political power in Punjab. Two, it made Jats a powerful community. Three, it started a tradition of Khatris/Aroras making the first son a Sikh. Children of the Sikh son became Sikh and so on. Today, future generations of the same family having similar surnames, say Kohli, are known to the outside world as followers of two religions, Sikhism and Hinduism. Four, it created a divide between Jat and Khatri Sikhs such that the latter are called ‘Bhapa’, a term dismissively used by Jats to describe Khatris and Aroras. Five, “since Jat Sikhs consider themselves superior to others, non Jat Sikhs in the Indian Army never reveal their surnames for the fear of being ridiculed in the Sikh community”. Instead they suffix their first names with ‘Singh’.

Notwithstanding the fact that an Akali leader (1940-1960 period), Master Tara Singh was a co founder of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad in 1964, Punjab was quite successfully divided between Sikh and Hindu. During the agitation for Punjab, the divide widened. Those areas (inhabited mostly by Punjabi Hindus) which had a Hindi-speaking majority, were included in the state of Haryana.

Religion and politics got irrevocably intertwined in Punjab. Adept at using religion, the Akalis ensured the Congress was at the receiving end in the 1980s. Indira Gandhi believed, if you-can’t-beat-them-join-them. So the Congress propped up Jarnail Singh Bhindrawale to counter the Akalis, creating a monster in the process. What followed was killing of innocent Hindus and Sikhs.

Just like the Congress party’s propping up of Bhindrawale eventually resulted in Operation Blue Star and Indira Gandhi’s death, so also Pakistan’s support for terrorism in India and Afghanistan resulted in the attack on Lal Masjid.

Today, the Jat Sikhs are a very powerful community. Such is their clout that the UPA government is yet to implement an August 2004 Supreme Court ruling, which orders the construction of the Punjab portion of the Sutlej Yamuna Canal.

Whenever the supremacy of the Jat Sikhs is threatened, there could be violence. After the latest apex court order, Amarinder Singh said terrorism would return to Punjab if the order was implemented.

Mixing religion with politics was the British strategy. Has anything changed!
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Truly INC has become the brown East India Company.
Muppalla
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Muppalla »

I don't know from where this compromise formula is coming. Is he firing shots in the air to protect someone from Army Chief while he being in the limelight as some uber super nationalist for his fan boys all over?

Is there a single event in Indian news these days that is a headline and Subra Swamy not having his hand on it? 2G scam, Chidu, EVM,Black money, cow slaughter, Muslim apeasement and now the latest Army Chief.

For each of them he will have a case in Delhi court or some letter to RTI, PM or to someone in the Government. Later the courts will have some judgements and most of them are inconclusive and rejections. Meanwhile his fan boys across the internet will go orgasmic at his achievements.

Sometime I feel like he is a deliberate plant to spoil the fight. May be EVM fight would be different if he did not rush it through Delhi court and someone who are fighting it in Supre Court has a better methodology. Similarly his anti-Chidu stuff and half cooked broth.

Now he is fishing in Army Chief stuff by actually proposing a compromise formula which actually helps the government. The Goverment wants VKS out and his compromise is not a real compromise. Is he helping MMS?

Accept Army Chief's compromise formula: Swamy to PM
Chennai, Jan 18: Janata Party President Subramanian Swamy today asked Prime Minister Manmohan Singh to agree to Army Chief V K Singh's reported "compromise formula" for settling the age issue that he would take premature retirement if the government accepted his true year of birth as 1951.

In a statement here, Swamy said the only people who were happy with the present controversy were the "enemies" of India, based outside and inside the country, "who are looking forward to depleting the morale of the armed forces and weakening India's military defence".

Gen Singh has moved the Supreme Court challenging the Defence Ministry's decision not to accept his position that he was born in 1951.
I want the following link where ever I post about this person called Subra Swamy
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 7#p1215277
svinayak
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

ramana wrote:Truly INC has become the brown East India Company.
i suspect this issue may be for the bahar ke log ke liye. To show kaun charge me hain
krisna
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by krisna »

viv wrote:
Stan_Savljevic wrote:He is from Bihar, no questions about that.

He is one of those who did a cost-benefit calculation of the pak-e-satan project and showed clearly to the Muslims that the whole edifice is built on bunkum and will end up biting their backsides sooner than later. And he wrote that book when the brits had lodged him in jail. He was not a kandle kisser by any means, he was the Joe Frazier of his era. You should get his book for what a great first President we had. Ambedkar as Law minister, Rajendra Prasad as President, Radhakrishnan as Vice President, Sardar Patel as Home minister, GV Mavlankar as Speaker, and all scholars, erudites, and stalwarts in different dimensions. I have some special fondness for Ambedkar because of his deep erudition that set him far apart from most of the other members of the Constitution Committee. Truly, democracy set its roots because of such yeomen and women who drove India to what it is today, not because the Hindus want democrazy or Nehru planted democracy or the Army did nt intervene and other such wild hypotheses.
Am resurrecting an old post. In partition thread Brihaspatiji asked me to look up his posts here on Nehru around 15 Nov. So, I looked back for a good place to start and this seems it.

Stan I totally agree with you that these stalwarts planted the firm roots. There were some ancient roots (Panchayat), but also the 1935 dominion and earlier municipal elections that helped some in the inculcation of the idea in the general polity.
stan seems to be upto something with his remarks. drinking kool aid :(( :((
Never in doubt about some form of democracy been practised in India for long.
democracy in ancient India :P

edited
:twisted: :evil: stan been banned.
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

Muppalla, Don't know if you realized it but AKA is now negated with the general mess. Cant be elevated to President with that track record nor the PM's job. And all along he was being a good boy listening to orders.
svinayak
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by svinayak »

When leadership was required they looked wanting
Sanku
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

Shouldn't a non Congress Govt change the laws to permit more free speech by rolling back amendments to the constitution that Nehru had made, and if possible even the older blasphemy laws?
Rony
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Rony »

Difference between India & China
Difference between India & China


By MARIA WIRTH


Recently, I spent time with my mother in Germany. She lives in a small town near Nuremberg with only some 6000 inhabitants. I was missing India. Reading newspapers and watching news on TV, it seemed as if there was no India. Yet, when I met people and mentioned that I live in India, all were curious, positive and keen to know more about the country. I couldn’t help telling how special India is because, as I see it, India and Indians have a lot going for them, more than any other civilisation. Parts of the Indian tradition have been hijacked by Westerners without acknowledging the source, be it yoga, transpersonal psychology or several scientific discoveries, apart from such basics as the decimal system. Yet, strangely, there is still no official attempt by India to own up and project India’s strong points abroad.

In contrast, China is doing a lot to project a good image by making full use of their main ancient sage, Confucius. Even in that small town near Nuremberg, twelve high school students have signed up for a Chinese language course. It came in the local newspaper. The Confucius institute is financing it. The teacher is a young Chinese.

On the airport, I picked up the International Herald Tribune, and not surprisingly, there was an 8-page Advertising Supplement about China prepared by China Daily. Confucius was all over the supplement: “Confucius lives”, “The way of the Sage”, etc., were some of the articles. Professor Zhang Qun, former head of the Confucius Institute, University of Naples, was quoted, “Western culture started to spread to China long ago, but now it is time for Chinese culture to be promoted to the Western world.” He underwent a wide range of training, including intercultural communications, religion, and even Chinese Opera, tai chi and paper cutting, “because foreigners love these things”, he said. Around 100 million foreigners are learning Chinese, the Chinese education ministry estimates. Though the Confucius Institute started only in 2004, it has now 350 institutes affiliated with universities and 430 ‘classrooms’ affiliated with secondary schools in 103 countries. As many as 260 more universities have applied for Institutes to be set up. Over 7000 young teachers are recruited every year from Chinese universities, who are sent abroad for two years…


Again, I was missing India. India is the cradle of civilisation, it has Sanskrit, the language which, according to NASA, helps develop the brain apart from being a perfect language. It has the deepest philosophy still expressed in a vibrant religion, a huge body of literature, amazing art, dance, music, sculpture, architecture, delicious cuisine and yet Indians are in denial mode and wake up only when foreigners treasure India. They don’t seem to know the value and therefore don’t take pride in their tradition, unlike westerners who take a lot of pride in theirs, even if there is little to be proud of.

An example that Rajiv Malhotra gave IIT students in Chennai recently illustrates it. Malhotra was a successful NRI businessman who retired early to set up the Infinity Foundation promoting Indic studies in the US. In 2005, the Crown Princess of Thailand wanted to have a World Sanskrit Conference. She herself was a Sanskrit student, had sent her sons to India to learn Sanskrit, had brought out a Journal on Sanskrit and wanted to start a Sanskrit College. A professor from Delhi University was organising the conference for her, but to his dismay, the Indian government did not want to sponsor it. He felt it was embarrassing, as many of the eastern countries, including Thailand, look to India as their mother civilisation. And here is this mother not taking any interest. So, he frantically called up Malhotra, asking him to help save face. His Infinity Foundation agreed to sponsor the event. The programme was set, when a few days before the start, the Indian HRD minister suddenly woke up and wanted to inaugurate the conference. A compromise was reached and both, Malhotra and the HRD minister, represented the Indian side.The conference was a success and the Indian Embassy in Bangkok gave a reception. Malhotra asked the young diplomats there about the Indian foreign policy in regard to projecting Indian civilisation as an asset, as soft power, as something of value in Asian countries. They were taken by surprise. “Sir, we don’t have any policy like that. We are a secular country,” the diplomats proffered. Malhotra wondered what this had to do with secular. “There is a demand, so you should supply it,” he suggested. “Set up Colleges of Sanskrit, of Indian thought, of dance, etc. It will also help in trade, in technology, in setting up business in these countries.”

There is a demand for Indian thought and culture not only in Asian countries; it is there in Western countries, too, though may be still unconscious. It would bring fresh air in the fixed thought structures that make westerners believe that there is either a god or no god, that one has the choice only between believing what has been written in a ‘holy book’and being an atheist.

India has a different approach. Already in 1887, Paul Deussen, professor of philosophy in Germany, had written, that it would be of benefit, if Indian Weltanschauung would spread in the west: “It would make us realise that we are stuck in colossal one-sidedness with our entire philosophical and religious thought and that there is a completely different way of approach than the one that Hegel construed as the only possible and reasonable one.”

There is however a difficulty. Most educated, English speaking Indians, who could project Indian culture abroad, know neither Samskrit nor the strong points of their culture and philosophy. In fact, some of them might rather bite their lip than acknowledge that India is a great civilisation. And many of those who know Sanskrit and who know the strong points of Indian culture don’t speak English or are not interested in teaching foreigners. Maybe the solution is to start, like the Chinese, with students. Give students a chance to delve deep into original Indian thought in Sanskrit, bridge the gap between academics and Sanskrit pandits, between universities and gurukuls, and let the students go abroad for a couple of years. They may turn out to be good ambassadors for India and may actually love the idea of being sent abroad. Never mind if they get disillusioned there.
ramana
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by ramana »

On the contray they would bit your lip in case you want to acknowldege the appropriateness of Indian Weltanschauung!
Yayavar
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Yayavar »

Very true unfortunately.
shiv
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shiv »

Rony wrote: Malhotra asked the young diplomats there about the Indian foreign policy in regard to projecting Indian civilisation as an asset, as soft power, as something of value in Asian countries. They were taken by surprise. “Sir, we don’t have any policy like that. We are a secular country,” the diplomats proffered. Malhotra wondered what this had to do with secular.
<snip>
Most educated, English speaking Indians, who could project Indian culture abroad, know neither Samskrit nor the strong points of their culture and philosophy. In fact, some of them might rather bite their lip than acknowledge that India is a great civilisation. And many of those who know Sanskrit and who know the strong points of Indian culture don’t speak English or are not interested in teaching foreigners. Maybe the solution is to start, like the Chinese, with students. Give students a chance to delve deep into original Indian thought in Sanskrit, bridge the gap between academics and Sanskrit pandits, between universities and gurukuls, and let the students go abroad for a couple of years. They may turn out to be good ambassadors for India and may actually love the idea of being sent abroad. Never mind if they get disillusioned there.
:rotfl: Perfect description of the belief in inferiority of Indian heritage!

Also the belief that secularism means suppressing Indian heritage.

This is what Indian education is doing. It's not just INC. INC is just a scapegoat. See the soft power thread in the burqa forum. Check out the tongue lashing that was given on the subject of soft power and the bitten lips after that.

I think every one of us who is concerned needs to look deeply at one's own attitudes and how we may have been brought up (by parents!!! and teachers) to be ashamed of what we are and were we came from. This whole business of cognitive dissonance and denial is a reaction to stop that inward looking because it causes emotions that are difficult to control.

"I have confidence in myself and confidence in the inferiority of my heritage and my peers, and that gives me the power to lash out at my inferior compatriots who live in the dark ages. They must bite their lips before they blurt out any bigoted, unsecular rubbish about the goodness of their own heritage " . This is the education that your parents, and consequently your teachers, and you got in India. Jai Blind

Inferiority is my birthright! And I will fight to preserve it. And this fight wins me praise and laurels from all the other superior cultures.

That is a colonized mindset to a T. No. It's not INC. It describes us. It's only because accepting that we have this mindset causes so much discomfort (akin to physical pain) that we "push it away" from ourselves and project it on to others like "GoI", "babus" or "INC"
abhishek_sharma
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by abhishek_sharma »

From the Urdu Press
The turmoil in Pakistan

Hyderabad's leading daily, Munsif , in an editorial on January 14, calls the political turn in Pakistan a “misfortune”. Meanwhile, the daily Inquilab, published from Mumbai, Delhi, Lucknow, Kanpur and Bareilly, writes in an editorial titled ‘Gilani aur pareshani’ (Gilani and the worry) on January 14: “The army has shown patience for two reasons. Firstly, the Pakistani army has become demoralised and self-pitying after the American attack on the Osama bin Laden hideout in Abbottabad. Secondly, not just the army, any soldier with common sense knows that a conspiracy is unthinkable, given the crisis facing Pakistan, on the economic and other fronts. Rebellion against a government implies preparedness for governance by the rebels...This is why General Kayani’s army is showing obedience. If the economic condition was better, Gilani and his government would have been thrown out long ago.”

Rashtriya Sahara writes on January 15,: “The constitution of Pakistan has been amended, like the Indian Constitution was amended after the 1977 general elections, to the effect that emergency cannot be declared under any condition except for a foreign attack. It is not possible for the Pakistan army to wrest power without the approval of the Supreme Court of Pakistan. More importantly, the Pakistani media today is not only independent, it is also against army rule.”

With reservations

SIASAT, in its January 11 editorial, writes: “The Congress-led UPA government thought of reservation right before the five assembly elections.... As soon as the election was announced in Uttar Pradesh, all political parties began wooing Muslims.” Delhi-based daily Jadeed Khabar, has welcomed the stay ordered by the Election Commission on the Centre’s decision of a 4.5 per cent quota for Muslims, out of the OBC quota. Rashtriya Sahara, in its January 13 editorial, has described as “laughable” BJP leader Uma Bharti’s statement that “Islam is a religion of equality and it does not believe in the caste system and differentiation as prevalent in the Hindu samaj, and since quotas are fixed on the basis of caste, Muslims who support this system would, on their own, be out of the Islamic fold,” and her appeal to the Muslim ulema to condemn the Centre’s “anti-Islamic decision”. The paper writes: “Uma Bharti is a Hindu OBC (Lodh Rajput) and she should have known that ‘OBC’ is the abbreviation of Other Backward Classes and not Other Backward Castes... The basis of reservation for Dalits too, is not on the basis of religion but centuries of historical and social injustice... As in other communities, there are forward and backward classes among Muslims. The 27 per cent quota was not meant for any caste.”

Storm over Rushdie

AS the Jaipur Literature Festival (beginning January 20) approaches, the protest by some Muslim organisations against Salman Rushdie’s participation is getting more intense. Many papers have details of the meeting between Rajasthan Chief Minister Ashok Gehlot and Union Home Minister P. Chidambaram (where Gehlot expressed anxiety over the threat to law and order if Rushdie was allowed to visit Jaipur). ‘Salman Rushdie ka daura-e-Hind mansookh hona tay’ (the cancellation of Salman Rushdie’s India visit a certainty) was the Inquilab headline on January 18. The paper also quotes the BBC, saying that Rushdie’s name is missing from the festival programme. A prominent English daily had, on January 17, reported that Rushdie has been “persuaded to stay away from the literature festival” and “the Booker Prize-winning author’s events were purged from the festival website.”

Interestingly enough, a prominent Urdu daily, Sahafat, had reported from Jaipur as early as January 14 that “the programme issued by the organisers of the Jaipur Literature Festival, does not contain the name of the controversial novelist.”

Delhi-based Hamara Samaj’s front page (January 18) had a story headined: ‘Mukhalfat rang laaee: Rushdie ka visa mansookh (opposition bore fruit: Rushdie’s visa cancelled). Regarding Rushdie’s claim that he did not need a visa as he is a PIO, the paper’s correspondent Aamir Saleem Khan has quoted the Rajasthan CM as saying that “the writer did not need a visa, yet the feelings and sentiments of the people would be kept in mind.”
Sanku
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

shiv wrote: It describes us.
Not in my name, no.
shiv
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shiv »

Cross post from the Pakhana therad
RCase wrote:Came across this one ...

In India government decides longevity of COAS and in Pakistan COAS decides longevity of government!
To me this is an ironic comparison.

If you read loads of literature about Pakistan you find that the "average Pakistani" respects his army but does not care for his politicians.

Funnily enough this is true for India as well. Indians respect the armed forces, and are critical of their politicians and government.

So what is the difference?

The difference is that the armed forces in India are not telling the Indian public "We are on your side, we will control the politicians". And Indians by and large are not demanding that the armed forces do that.

Both the armed forces and the politicians are serving the people and the interests of the people. It does not matter if the people hate one and love the other, but neither politicians nor the armed forces have the right to try an pull people "towards their side" and claim superiority over the other. The three legs of democracy are parliament (elected politicians), armed forces and judiciary. If any one of these legs gets longer, or chooses to cut off any of the other legs. Democracy will topple.

The self flagellatory rhetoric that India's polticians are all bad needs to be balanced with the fact that Indian democracy still works without any great tilt towards one side or other in the triple legs of democracy. Of course things could be made much better. Apart from political accountability, military accountability in the form of release of old, confidential documents would help the public understand what mistakes were made by politicians guiding the military and what errors were made by the military in the past, so we can work for a less troubled future.
Sidhant
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sidhant »

^^ +1 Shiv ji...
member_20617
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by member_20617 »

shiv wrote:Cross post from the Pakhana therad
RCase wrote:Came across this one ...

In India government decides longevity of COAS and in Pakistan COAS decides longevity of government!
To me this is an ironic comparison.

If you read loads of literature about Pakistan you find that the "average Pakistani" respects his army but does not care for his politicians.

Funnily enough this is true for India as well. Indians respect the armed forces, and are critical of their politicians and government.

So what is the difference?

The difference is that the armed forces in India are not telling the Indian public "We are on your side, we will control the politicians". And Indians by and large are not demanding that the armed forces do that.

Both the armed forces and the politicians are serving the people and the interests of the people. It does not matter if the people hate one and love the other, but neither politicians nor the armed forces have the right to try an pull people "towards their side" and claim superiority over the other. The three legs of democracy are parliament (elected politicians), armed forces and judiciary. If any one of these legs gets longer, or chooses to cut off any of the other legs. Democracy will topple.

The self flagellatory rhetoric that India's polticians are all bad needs to be balanced with the fact that Indian democracy still works without any great tilt towards one side or other in the triple legs of democracy. Of course things could be made much better. Apart from political accountability, military accountability in the form of release of old, confidential documents would help the public understand what mistakes were made by politicians guiding the military and what errors were made by the military in the past, so we can work for a less troubled future.
Shivji

IMHO ''Indian democracy still works without any great tilt towards one side or other in the triple legs of democracy'' because of Hindus and their outlook towards life - Live & let live

In Pakistan, Islamic Junoon takes over - Kill & be killed!
shiv
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shiv »

Shankaraa wrote: IMHO ''Indian democracy still works without any great tilt towards one side or other in the triple legs of democracy'' because of Hindus and their outlook towards life - Live & let live

In Pakistan, Islamic Junoon takes over - Kill & be killed!
This is a self goal of a statement.

It means that if Hindus do not live and let live, democracy in India will fail. So if Hindus say that they absorb the excesses forced on them by non Hindus for the sake of democracy. it is the same as dhimmitude and self effacing behavior for the sake of democracy. For democracy to work in India Hindus need to bow their heads and they do exactly that. Therefore all iz wel in democratic India.

Now if some Hindus do not like this situation as say "We will not live and let live" they will upset democracy in India. Those Hindus who are not willing to live and let live are undemocratic.

That means that Hindus come in two categories.
1. Hindus who live and let live with heads bowed down - democratic Hindus
2. Hindus not willing to live and let live - undemocratic Hindus

Therefore Indian democracy faces its greatest threat from Hindus who are not wiling to live and let live. You have connected up democracy in India with Hindu behavior. You have connected up lack of democracy in Pakistan with Islamic behavior. You have nicely encapsulated and given full endorsement to the INC argument in one simple but brilliant post. Congratulations. Few people could do a better job.
Sanku
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by Sanku »

shiv wrote: Few people could do a better job.
+1.
shyamd
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Re: Indian Interests

Post by shyamd »

A very serious question. It does appear there are drastic efforts to break the alliance plan.

After the Bangla coup, Maldives in trouble
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C. Raja Mohan : New Delhi, Sat Jan 21 2012, 20:25 hrs

After an attempted coup has been foiled in Bangladesh, a different kind of putsch appears to be unfolding in Maldives. The simultaneous disturbance in two of India’s neighbours may not be a coincidence and will severely test Delhi’s regional policy.

On Thursday in Dhaka, an army spokesman, with the top military brass in attendance, explained the sources of the coup. “At the instigation of some non-resident Bangladeshis some retired and serving Army officers with fanatical religious views and capitalising on others’ fanacitisim led a failed attempt through their ill-motivated activities to thwart the democratic system of Bangladesh by creating disorder in the army”.

A day before, the government of Maldives accused opposition activists of using religious rhetoric to stir trouble in the nation of 330,000 Sunni Muslims, who have been practicing a liberal form of the religion.

The government said it was "extremely concerned" by an increase in extremist rhetoric that could lead to "stigmatisation, stereotyping and incitement to religious violence and hatred". Meanwhile sections of the business community, judiciary and the government itself appear to have been mobilised against the democratically elected president.

Both Bangladesh and Maldives returned to democratic governance in 2008. Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina in Bangladesh and President Mohammed Nasheed in Maldives have sought to impart a progressive and secular orientation to the two South Asian Muslim nations.

Hasina and Nasheed have been bold enough to develop strong political and security cooperation with India. During his visits to Dhaka in September and Male in December, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh had signed agreements for long term partnerships with the two countries.

As one of the world’s largest Muslim democracies with a rapidly growing economy, Bangladesh has the potential to alter the regional balance in very significant ways. Tiny Maldives, sitting on top of the Indian Ocean sea lines of communication, has begun to acquire a strategic significance of its own.

In both countries, there have been relentless efforts to create political disorder and chaos, and fan the flames of religious extremism against the governments.

While the specific public manifestation of the turbulence in Bangladesh and Maldives might be somewhat different, the nature of the internal forces and their external partners, targeting the two democratic governments are not.

Irrespective of the proximate causes for the trouble in Bangladesh and Maldives, India will be the biggest loser from the destabilisation of the two countries. The big question, then, is what India can do to help Dhaka and Male cope with their mounting internal challenges.
I guess response to this is to conduct aggressive intel operations in BD and Maldives, Nepal against PRC/TSP agents - without the support of host govts if needed. There is talk of Maldives joining the Indian union eventually.
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