LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

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Brando
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Brando »

Any details released regarding the Electro-optical sensor suite that is going to be mated to the LCH ??

The new Apache Arrowhead EO/IR-LD multi-sensor system is really a break through and if the IAF is thinking about going for the Apache, they will most certainly be interested in that electro-opitcal upgrade. Having had a chance to play with that I would imagine the benchmark for the LCH's EO/IR would be pretty steep .

Without effective and powerful "eyes", even the most fearsome attack helicopters will have a hard time .
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Singha »

the only reason I can think of for a big glasshouse is they want the chin cannon slaved to the gunners HMS and plan to use that a lot in the day and night(using nvg) to the sides in passes orbiting target or moving parallel to targets.
somewhat of a anti-taliban kind of role.

ATGMs and rocket pods will surely be fired using the nose EO ball and glass coverage does not matter.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

raghuk wrote: Indranilji, yes i have seen TD-1 & 2 infact i see them everyday because i have no other option as i work on them daily :P (i am a design engineer in RWR&DC HAL) and if you can loiter around HAL maybe even you can find them flying but not daily. there is no change in the LG as such, just that its been covered with a fairing to reduce drag
Cheers!
You have got my attention :) and please drop the ji for me, not much of grey between my ears either.

Also have the new armament booms been strapped on? I don't stay in Bangalore so will wait for the pics. But I must tell you that I was in Bangalore last summer for just 2 days and luckily my host stayed near the HAL airport. I was lucky to see TD-1 flying ... it was wonderful. Keep up the good work and keep posting.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Vipul »

Production of 159 ALHs is in full swing: HAL.

Work was on full swing on production of 159 Advanced Light Helicopters to be handed over to the Indian Army by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) here, a senior official said today.

HAL was also focusing on producing Weapon System Integrated (WSI) ALH to be handed over to the Services and the work in this regard was at different stages," HAL General Manager (Helicopter Division) M S Srinath said in a statement.

The company had already handed over seven ALHs to Border Security Force (BSF), which is being used for anti-naxalite operations. "... thousands of lives in naxal-affected areas have been saved," he added.

As part of its overseas commitments, HAL had successfully handed over ALH's to Ecuador, Mauritius and Maldives, he added.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Yagnasri »

Is there any Heli Production line in HAL and how many HAL can produce in a year?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Singha »

yes there is a entire helicopter division next to the old airport.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_22605 »

Narayana Rao wrote:Is there any Heli Production line in HAL and how many HAL can produce in a year?
One huge manufacturing division, a very decent R&D centre with excellent facilities for ground testing and flight testing. The total no of Helicopters produced are around 40(ch/ck included) else it would be around 25-30 dhruvs.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Cybaru »

How is the LUH and MRH coming along ?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Yeah.. Things have been pretty quiet on the LUH front for sometime now..

Raghuji, any paanwala news???
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Vinit »

Philip wrote:Helo crashes.There was a vital piece of info in AWST about the use of Apaches aboard UK carriers in recent wars,which has implications for the IN's ASW contest.An Apache sinks in 3 minutes! This gives the crew/occupants scarcely enough time to evacuate the helo if it ditches.
Philip, I'm rather surprised it takes 3 minutes to sink. Helicopters, being top heavy, are prone to invert and sink quickly after ditching (apart from the boat-hull type designs you mentioned, which last somewhat longer). If the 3 minutes is correct, it is actually enough time for a trained crew to evacuate a ditched aircraft, assuming no incapacitating injuries.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_22605 »

Bala Vignesh wrote:Yeah.. Things have been pretty quiet on the LUH front for sometime now..

Raghuji, any paanwala news???
LUH is coming along very well and fast(if i may say so). The design has been frozen, almost all drawings are ready and part of the new rotor has already been ground tested. This apart, i currently cannot give away any info.
Cheers!
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_20163 »

Thats a breather Raghuji - Small titbits do help as morale booster and adds up a smile.. Thanks
Gaur
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Gaur »

raghuk wrote: LUH is coming along very well and fast(if i may say so). The design has been frozen, almost all drawings are ready and part of the new rotor has already been ground tested. This apart, i currently cannot give away any info.
Cheers!
Thanks a ton for the news. :)
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Yogi_G »

Sorry, a n00b question, has there ever been any attempt or idea for India to develop a heavy chopper? I dont think the current volumes justify development costs but we are a growing economy and army's heavy lift needs will go up in future so sometime in future it would make sense. But has there been any proposals to this effect?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Cybaru »

Thanks Raghuk. Hopefully we are going to keep the engine constant and use shakti for it ?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Vipul »

Home Ministry plans to buy six Mi-17V-5 helicopters from Russia.

The Home Ministry has decided to buy six Mi-17V-5 helicopters from Russia to assist its forces engaged in internal security duties, including anti-Naxal operations. The decision came days after the Ministry's entire fleet of indigenous Dhruv helicopters was grounded following a series of mishaps.

The Mi-17V-5 is designed for utility cargo work and can carry up to 36 passengers or four tons of weight. The machine features advanced multifunction cockpit displays and upgraded TV3-117VM engines.

The helicopters are being built by Russian Helicopters' Kazan Helicopter Factory (KVZ) subsidiary. "The Home Ministry has asked the Defence Ministry to help it out in buying the choppers," an official said.

The MoD is negotiating purchase of 59 Mi-17s after its first order of 80 such helicopters to the Russian company. "The MoD has been asked to buy six helicopters in addition to their actual requirement. The MHA will use the six helicopters," the official said.

On Tuesday, Chidambaram had said that he had authorised wet leasing of some helicopters and was also looking for buying some more choppers for use by the security forces. "I think unless we find a replacement for the Dhruv helicopters, we would have to do with the Mi helicopters (of Indian Air Force)," he had said.

The Border Security Force maintains the fleet of Dhruv helicopters. Before the crashes near Ranchi and Raipur, it had seven Dhruvs.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

Why is the MHA Dhruv fleet grounded and how large is it?
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Rahul M »

Yogi_G wrote:Sorry, a n00b question, has there ever been any attempt or idea for India to develop a heavy chopper? I dont think the current volumes justify development costs but we are a growing economy and army's heavy lift needs will go up in future so sometime in future it would make sense. But has there been any proposals to this effect?
there's IMRH which is about 10 t. requirement for heavy chopper is limited in numbers so doesn't make economic sense.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by krisna »

ramana wrote:Why is the MHA Dhruv fleet grounded and how large is it?
This is in maosist infested states-
grounding of dhruv
BSF had given CRPF six HAL-made Dhruv helicopters to help in anti-Maoist operations in Jharkhand, Chhattisgarh and Maharashtra.
incidents and accidents-wiki

Latest news-
MHA hunts for choppers
Home Minister P Chidambaram said the Mi-17 helicopters of the Indian Air Forces will help the paramilitary and state police forces to do their job till the alternative arrangements were made.

"Mi-17 helicopters are functional. It is the Dhruv helicopters which were grounded. One of them crashed....so I immediately I directed remaining (fleet) should be grounded," he told reporters here last evening.

Chidambaram said he had authorised wet leasing of some helicopters and also looking for buying some more choppers for use by the security forces.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

So thats the incident of Oct 19, 2011 when the helicopter crashed in North East. And PC decided to ground the rest?
Ranchi, October 19, 2011 | UPDATED 12:10 IST
BSF chopper Dhruv crashes in Ranchi, 3 killed

Three people, including two pilots and a technician, were killed after a helicopter of Border Security Force (BSF) crashed in Jharkhand on Wednesday morning.

The advanced light helicopter (ALH), Dhruv, was pressed into service about a year ago for anti-Naxal operations. It was maintained and operated by Pawan Hans.


The aircraft was on its way to Chaibasa from capital Ranchi when the accident took place on the city outskirts in Namkum area. Those killed included pilots Captain Thomas and Captain S.P. Singh and technician Manoj Soin.

The reason for the crash was not yet known.

It was the fourth helicopter crash in the country within a year under the Pawan Hans service.
Was it shot down and hence the fleet is grounded as its hazardous?

How come if its air worthiness issue either HAL or civil aviation authorities would have grounded it.

And the search for Mi-17 shows the need for armor protected helis.


Thanks for the wiki link and the MHA statement.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by ramana »

I didnt see this report written a year ago in Telegraph.

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1120103/j ... 955246.jsp
Team to probe Dhruv crash
OUR CORRESPONDENT

Ranchi, Jan. 2: Little over two months after a BSF-owned Dhruv helicopter crashed en route from Ranchi to Chaibasa, the Union ministry of civil aviation has formed a five-member committee to probe the October 19 mishap that left three crew members dead.

The team will be headed by retired air commodore J.S. Cheema and comprise National Aerospace Laboratories scientist Subir Bhowmick, former joint deputy general of Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) P.K. Chattopadhyaya and Captain K. Bhambhani. The member-secretary of the team will be G. Sanat Kumar, DGCA deputy director (air safety).

“We received a letter from the Union ministry recently about the committee being formed to probe the accident. The state government will lend all support to the team,” additional secretary in the state home department Sadanand Sahay told The Telegraph.

The team is supposed to compile findings and file a report within three months. The report will also include ways to ensure that similar incidents did not occur in future.

Though owned by BSF, the Dhruv helicopter used to be operated and maintained by Pawan Hans under an agreement with the Union ministry of home affairs. The accident killed two pilots and a technician as the chopper made its way to Chaibasa from Ranchi
.

In Chaibasa, the chopper was to be used by senior officials of the Union ministry of rural development who were supposed to go to Saranda in Manoharpur block of West Singhbhum. There, a slew of developmental works have been initiated by the Centre and state to turn the region into a model hub, which could be replicated in other Left Wing Extremism affected areas of the country.

As the chopper crashed — villagers living nearby reported hearing what sounded like a huge explosion — in mid-air despite flying at a safe height, the Union ministry team had to take the train and road route to reach Saranda.

BSF sources said a probe initiated by DGCA soon after the crash was aborted mid-way forcing the Union ministry of civil aviation to take the latest step. It was not known why the DGCA probe had to be abandoned, but sources conceded it was probably due to shortage of manpower.

The wreckage of the ill-fated chopper is now lying at the BSF’s air-wing facilities in Dhurwa. The same would be sent to a forensic laboratory first followed by Dhruv’s manufacturing unit in Bangalore’s Hindustan Aeronautics Limited.

Sources added that if DGCA is unable to carry out an inquiry within the stipulated three months or fails to make good progress, the Union ministry of civil aviation forms an independent inquiry team to probe the matter.

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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Bala Vignesh »

One doubt,
How can the MoHA give the order for grounding a fleet???
Wouldn't that authority be with Minister for civil aviation and the directorate of air safety under MoD???
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya G »

One must credit IA and IAF for their relatively accident free (measured over hours, loading and terrain) helicopter operations compared to BSF/Pawan Hans.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Dhanush »

First batch of Advanced Light Helicopter 'Dhruv' Mk-III comes into the IAF family

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 810288.cms
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_22605 »

While the general mood is HAL bashing, this is something to maybe slightly change the mood :D
http://s1150.photobucket.com/albums/o60 ... 8685_n.jpg
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Rudra??? Isn't it the Dhruv-WSI's name???
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by PratikDas »

Yes it is, and raghuk should be reprimanded for logo-teasing. We might be SDRE but we like full frontals too.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_22605 »

This is all i can manage for now, the full picture after the official declaration! :P
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by PratikDas »

Thank you :)
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Official Declaration??? Is it the name for the LCH???
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by member_22605 »

I meant official pictures, its a magnificent bird and looks absolutely stunning when fully loaded.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by rajanb »

Thanks a lot RaghuK.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

Raghu,

Is the digital camouflage on the second prototype just a visual one or does the camouflage work in the infrared region as well? If it works in the infrared region, could you please explain how?

My only wild guess is that it is based on differential reflection coefficients of the different colours in the infrared region. The intensity of the reflected ray and hence the signature varies rapidly and hence the infrared sensors cannot lock on.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by hnair »

hmm.... One need to be cautious on the details being asked off a person with possible security clearances.....
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Surya »

this is how sensible knowledgable people are driven off - :(
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

hnair wrote:hmm.... One need to be cautious on the details being asked off a person with possible security clearances.....
Yes, ofcourse! I forgot to add caveat: Raghu, please don't reply if it violates the security clearances in any form or manner.

There was some talk in public about the camouflage working in the infrared region, which I did not understand. Hence I asked.

Suryaji, sorry! Probably I would be more careful next time. If Raghu says that he can't answer the question, I will immediately delete the question myself.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Philip »

Yogi,there was a report saying that the IN required more than 70+ helos from 8-12t,for ASW,ASuW,special forces,etc. and that the number would cross over a hundred.With such a large order,ther is bound to be some screwdriver tech incolced!
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by shukla »

X-post

Rosoboronexport press-release suggests Ka-226 might be leading the Eurocopter in a tender to supply 197 reconnaissance and surveillance helicopters for the Indian air force and land force

Ka-226 battles through in India
Russia & India report - Victor Litovkin.
Rosoboronexport, the sole Russian intermediary for exports and imports of weapons and military equipment, has issued a press release confirming that the Russian Ka-226T light helicopter will soon defeat its European counterpart the AS550 C3 Fennec, manufactured by Eurocopter, in the tendering process to supply 197 reconnaissance and surveillance helicopters for the air force and land forces of the Republic of India. “All the test phases have been completed, and the examination of bidders’ proposals is at the concluding stage,” the company’s press office reports.

The marked advantage of the Russian proposal is its “cumulative” effect: the excellent Ka-226T rotary-wing aircraft is offered as a package with an offset programme that is attractive for the Indian side, this document says. First, under the offset programme Rosoboronexport, together with companies of the Russian Helicopters holding, is proposing to set up joint production of sub-systems and components for the Ka-226T, and subsequently to set up assembly of these machines in the Republic of India. Second, it proposes joint development of new modifications of the Ka-226T. And third, this programme will enable the two countries – which are strategic partners – to move towards full-scale industrial cooperation in the field of helicopter building. Russia’s huge experience in this sphere and the successful implementation of joint programmes in the field of aircraft building (production under licence in India of the MiG-21, MiG-27 and Su-30MKI aeroplanes) are a good basis for fulfilling the most ambitious objectives.
Incidentally, the Ka-226T performed very well during the evaluation trials conducted earlier in India as part of the tendering process. These trials showed clearly that the Ka-226T embodies the best achievements of the Kamov school of design – modular construction, which makes the helicopter multifunctional, a simple piloting technique, a low level of vibration, a high degree of reliability and safety in flight, and easy maintenance.

The Kamov helicopter may also be helped to win in the Indian tendering process by the fact that the Ka-226T is also flying in the Russian Federal Security Service and the Ministry of Emergency Situations, and has been put into service by the Ministry of Defence. A batch of these “choppers” was recently delivered to the Military Helicopter Pilots’ Retraining Centre in Torzhok. Moreover, there is lively interest in this machine outside Russia. Jordan wants not just to buy this machine but also to assemble it on its own territory. So Delhi has a chance to overtake Amman, and even to leave it trailing.
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Re: LCH and other Helicopters Discussion Thread

Post by Kailash »

Retired Indian Major General to Lead HAL and CAE Helicopter Joint Venture in India | Ottawa Citizen
BENGALURU, INDIA--(Marketwire - Feb. 13, 2012) - The Helicopter Academy to Train by Simulation of Flying (HATSOFF), the joint venture owned equally by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) and CAE, today announced the appointment of Major General (Ret'd) Ajit Hari as Chief Executive Officer of HATSOFF.

I am pleased to join an organization established by HAL and CAE, two of the world's leading and most reputable aerospace and defence companies," said Major General (Ret'd) Ajit Hari Gadre, now CEO of HATSOFF. "Since its opening in 2010, HATSOFF has set the standard in India for advanced helicopter simulator training, and I am convinced that simulation-based training will continue to grow and prove to be one of the best approaches for improving safety, operational efficiency and mission readiness."

General Gadre spent 37 years with Indian Army as a commissioned officer, retiring in June 2009 as the Additional Director General of Army Aviation. In this role, he managed the operations, training, maintenance and logistics of the entire Indian Army Aviation Corps. Prior to this assignment, General Gadre was Commandant of the National Cadet Corps Officers Training Academy. He is an accomplished helicopter pilot and a qualified flying instructor with over 5,000 hours of accident/incident free flying. During his career, he also oversaw training operations at the Indian Army Headquarters for the entire Army Aviation Corps.

Currently, HATSOFF is offering training on the Bell 412, Eurocopter Dauphin, and the civil/conventional variant of the HAL Dhruv helicopters. An additional cockpit for the Indian Army/Air Force glass cockpit variant of the HAL-built Dhruv is expected to be added to the HATSOFF training centre later in 2012. HATSOFF uses a CAE-built full-mission simulator "mothership" that features CAE's revolutionary roll-on/roll-off cockpit design, which enables cockpits representing various helicopter types to be used in the full-mission simulator. When a cockpit is not used in the full-mission simulator, it can be used as a fixed-based flight training device. The HATSOFF training centre, located near HAL's multiple complexes adjacent to HAL Airport, also features multimedia classrooms, computer-based training, brief/debrief facilities, a training management information system and crew accommodations.

About HAL

Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is a premier aeronautical complex of SE Asia, with 19 production divisions and ten R&D centres. HAL's expertise encompasses design, production, repair, overhaul and upgrade of Aircraft, Helicopters, Aero-engines, Accessories, Avionics and Systems. HAL today provides one stop solutions for all the design needs of aircraft and helicopters in airframes, airframe systems, avionics, mission and combat systems using advanced design tools. The 19 manufacturing divisions of HAL are equipped with modern infrastructure with modern plant and machinery for production of fighter aircraft, trainer aircraft and helicopters. The current workforce is around 35,000 with over 50% having more than a decade of aircraft industry experience. It has also diversified into manufacture and repair/overhaul of Industrial and Marine Gas Turbine engines, and manufacture of structures for aerospace vehicles. http://www.hal-india.com

About CAE

CAE is a global leader in modeling, simulation and training for civil aviation and defence. The company employs more than 7,500 people at more than 100 sites and training locations in over 25 countries. Through CAE's global network of 34 civil aviation, military and helicopter training centres, the company trains more than 80,000 crewmembers yearly. CAE's business is diversified, ranging from the sale of simulation products to providing comprehensive services such as training and aviation services, professional services and in-service support. The company applies its simulation expertise and operational experience to help customers enhance safety, improve efficiency, maintain readiness and solve challenging problems. CAE is now leveraging its simulation capabilities in new markets such as healthcare and mining.
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