Bharat Rakshak

Socialist Republic is planning to get this piloted as well. If I am not mistaken Cent. Govt. has identified a few states where CCTNS would be piloted. Eagerly awaiting some usage reports.

Sachin, Read this and if you want to know more send me an e-mail

viewtopic.php?p=1226088#p1226088

Thanks ramana would drop an e-mail soon.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City ... 817333.cms



I have very mixed views on this. On the whole, I actually think the Addl DCP was correct. He is a fairly junior IPS officer (2005 batch), and not so long out of SVPNPA. Punishment of this sort may be common for infringements in the academy. Additionally, the constable was posted to protect the court complex, and this is an important duty and he should not be goofing off.

In a sense its a very good thing that the officer was there to check security arrangements.

Lawyers being civilians may not understand the importance of discipline, and may think that this is an inhumane punishment, not knowing that it is fairly common in uniformed forces. (See reports of people thinking constable was made to "crawl"- a front roll is not a crawl, unless the fellow was too unfit to perform the exercise).

I think the young IPS chap had the right idea in punishing this errant constable.

The constable for sure was not attentive on duty. But punishments like front-rolls are generally given inside the police training colleges. If I understand it correctly the idea of front roll as a punishment is not to humiliate a person in front of a large number of people. Such punishments meted out in public is for sure going to be considered as "inhuman" punishments, by the general public.

So in over-all the idea of the DCP may have been correct, but the spot he chose may not be the right one. Best would have been to send the errant constable to a PTC for a small "refresher course". .

I dont agree with the yong officer way of enforcing discipline. Some sort of show oafiness is there. Besides he was in civilian clothes and he expects to be saluted? Did the cop know him from before?
Talkin on cellphone on duty! He might be getting a call to be alert?

Also meeting out punishment in the court premsies could be contempt of court?

Antediluvian punishments to show of one's ego are not conducive ot a modern force.

Both points of view are relevant.

He should not have been goofing off. But he should not have been humiliated either. And of course, service rules do not permit saluting someone out of uniform anyway.

Probably best solution would have been to punish him within police lines, and not "then and there" dabangg style.

At any rate, being raked over the coals by the hon'ble HC will cool down the Addl DCP also. He will not commit the mistake of acting on instinct within court premises.

Are there rules in the IPS against striking their juniors?

The junior can't strike back as that would be agianst the rules!

Gen Patton got demoted for slapping a soldier during invasion of Italy in World WarII.

As I recall Patton didn't even receive an administrative reprimand. All he did was go and apologize the the men he slapped.

At any rate the IPS officer was not entitled to a salute since he was out of uniform. Whether he knew him or not is irrelevant.

Saar, our police services (at least in North India) operate on the lines of "Jiski laathi uski bhains" (literally, "whoever has the biggest stick, owns the buffalo", or more prosaically, "might makes right"). Rules or no, no constable is ever in a position to complain (and have action taken) against an IPS officer, unless there is some other IPS officer godfather behind him, trying to undermine the officer complained against. The power gap is far too great. This is even more so in states like UP, Bihar, etc, but also true in Punjab, Haryana etc, including Delhi.

In Uttar Pradesh (Lucknow), a DIGP thrashed a constable until he was unconscious, because he found him urinating on the compound wall of his bungalow while posted for security there. In the same state, a female District Magistrate thrashed a lady constable and then had false cases registered against her, because she suspected her of practicing witchcraft. The lady constable had been posted in the DM's house, and was being used for cleaning the DM's baby's diapers.

Besides, in this case the officer has not struck the constt, but rather made him perform an awkward maneouver in front of the general public...

And the overinflated ego of new IAS/IPS officers is well known, since they are still getting used to their newfound power, and are still unaware of the limits that actually exist upon it.

Ideally of course, this power gap between the lowest and highest heirarchy in police should not exist. It doesnt exist in most western nations, where the constable is also a base unit of the police heirarchy, and has a clear shot at becoming the chief of police. Unfortunately, in India, with its disguised unemployment, and feudal and colonial past, constables are the whipping boys of senior IAS, IPS etc officers. Often enough you find a dozen of them posted at the SP or collectors house, shifting flowerpots, cleaning baby's diapers, and generally being ill treated. In turn, they also ill treat and abuse the general public. Its a kick downwards sort of syndrome. Until this changes, such incidents cannot be said to be rare.

And, as I mentioned above, he should have been paying attention to his duty. But of course, a constable may receive information on his phone also.

Sorry, it was a Home Guard (auxiliary police force) who was accused of witchcraft by the DM. Note that the homeguard was made to change diapers, do cleaning, and wash the toilet.

Also note that the DM, far from being embarassed, says to the media "You all dont know how to behave with a DM"!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 793552.cms

Here, I told you so. The constable himself is crying off the whole affair. How can he challenge authority of an IPS officer, who has power to have him dismissed from service, or make his life hell? Obviously, the police establishment has come down heavily on this constable, telling him that he had better make things look ok for the boss.

Meanwhile, Indian Express does not mention talking on cellphone at all. Says punishment was meted out simply because constable did not salute. What does this say about the Addl DCP? Or is the media spicing things up as usual?

Besides, consider this. Delhi is a small state. Kuruvilla will be in service for another 32 years, and will be a big man one day. Most our constable can hope for is a fulfilling career where he rises to inspector, becomes an SHO, and retires. Why would he jeopardise all that?

ASPuar, totally agree with your analysis on the behaviour of the police men. I guess the general social circumstances at the place where such incidents happen also should be considered. In certain parts of India, I see that IAS/IPS officers are like small time rajahs who have a personal fiefdom over the territory. The politicians off course are the maharajahs. The PSI, HCs are all like small time heads of militias etc., and hold sway over smaller territories. Any one who upsets this apple cart, would be taken to task by the higher ups. There seems to be know other system, which can help the people down the pecking order. So a classic case of an SI, who can thrash civilians in the most inhumane way, pissing in his pants when an IPS officer comes up. The IPS officer can do pretty much the same to the SI,HC, PC etc.

The sad part is that this sort of boorish behaviour of the IAS/IPS-wallahs also gets taken up by their wives and kids. Remember the case of a Lady Inspector being attacked by the wife of a senior IAS officer at Bangalore. The spoilt brat of this fellow, had ridiculed police men in uniform, and the inspector reprimanded him for this nasty behaviour. Now Mrs. IAS does not like this at all and thus started the fight.

Let me be quite honest with you. The worst cases of IAS/IPS wallahs behaving in boorish way, are when these people are from the same areas of India, which you mentioned in your posts. The sad case is that they are just imposing their boorish behaviour (which may be the "in thing" in their parts of the wood) among the parts of India, where people have better way of dealing with others. I feel that literacy is one "differentiating factor" here. K.P is doing away (or already done away with) the "Orderly" system. At the max there is a PSO for the IPS officer, but not an "Orderly". Police men have now started raising their voice and say they are not paid to work as "Orderlies" (this nappy changing business, and running errands for the IPS++, i.e the SHQ of the IPS officer). Have heard complaints (more in the lines of whines), that their IPS posting is not giving them the same level of clout which they may have got in their own home states. The media is ever watchful, and any wrong moves would cause unneccessary troubles. So much so that many of the young IPS officers now consider the junior ranks in much more better respectable terms. Some of them have shown enough team playing and leadership skills, that it has brought real good improvement in L&O situations.

Regardless the IPS officer expecting a salute when he is not in uniform is wrong.

Seondly his ordering those 'froward rolls' based on not saluting is wrong.

Third there was a report of him having stripped the constable of his badge etc which is an assault in any legal code.

Regardless of whether the victim files a complaint or not a physical assault was conducted on Delhi High Court premises. And witnessed by lawyers. This is violation of sanctuary of the court and a contempt of court.

The IPS officer is not fit for service. Time to make it clear assaulting a police constable is not lawful.

That the constable was supposedly negligent is a different matter and should be taken up also.

In San Francisco right now , the sheriff (equal to Supdt of Police in India) beat up his wife and the police were called by neighbors. The wife did not complain but the DA office had to pursue the matter. The case is going on right now. Lot of drama about how the sheriff is not able to see his two year old son etc.

He is top police man and if he breaks the law how can one have confidence that he will uphold the law?

Was the Sheriff (an elected person) actually from the Law Enforcement? I hear that in US that Sheriffs can be elected representatives who need not have any prior experience in law enforcement. To add on, I think the pride and prestige which US law enforcement gets is through the follow up they do on such crimes. At least in basic interactions which a common man have with the police officer cases like bribery etc. are not there. My firm belief is that even in India, people would have more faith in the police if the day to day matters can be carried out with bribery, assault, coercion etc. No one is really bothered about bribery, corruption etc. taking place at much higher levels.

PS: I also strongly believe that people do have a good faith in Army mainly because they do not have such day-to-day interactions with civilians. And secondly any minor corruption etc. does not affect the civilian in any way, and they are all taken by the judicial system in the Army.

I agree with what youre saying, but I will point out the SP Kuruvilla, IPS, who ordered the front rolls, is domiciled in Kerala, though posted to AGMUT cadre. I think ill grace is not by birth, but acquired by the individual.

That being said, Im not at all surprised at the reports of disgruntlement among IAS/IPS from UP/Bihar feeling that they dont have the same status as they would in their home states. Where the political authority is weak, or ineffectual due to 'other' interests (eg corruption, not bothered about administration), these bureaucrats usurp the function of the political executive, and get away with anything. An IPS officer in Bihar under Laloo was essentially GOD. He could do ANYTHING, and NEVER be questioned! Nowadays, with Nitish Kumar in power, this arbitary, and extra legal power has become much less (leading to some amount of heartburn!).

With regard to the larger system of policing, essentially, the whole system of IPS/SPS/Subordinate Services/Group D is colonial, and should be chucked in the bin. It arose, because the British needed a paramilitary type police force, to keep the populace in check. This is why the police has officer ranks and non officer ranks, something that is not usual in civil service type police elsewhere.

If at all an officer-non officer system has to exist in the police, it should be that all start at the same level, and then work their way up to a rank. The police today has too many 'managers' and too few effective workers. In truth, most of the real police work is being done at the non gazetted officer level, through PI, PSI, ASI, with other higher officers only 'supervising'. One young IPS officer who used to be a journalist even went to the extent of rather pompously saying that he 'presides' over some 6000 policemen as an SP. Of what use is his "presidency"?

IPS officers join work, spend a short time in the field, and then are posted elsewhere. Within four short years of service (including two spent in training only), they become eligible to be SP's of a district. What use is this greenhorn SP? Shouldnt someone managing the security of a police district have some experience first? Its like if someone told a newly minted army officer, four years into his service, here, take this batallion, and command it (this happened shortly after independence to many officers btw). What happens in such a situation? The boss doesnt know anything about anything, but cant show it, cuz hes the boss. The old sinners (SI, PI, etc) run the show, whichever way they want. Who loses? The public!

As regards bad behaviour of IAS/IPS relatives, I have seen most IAS in Punjab/Haryana have lots of policemen attached to thier houses. Their kids all have drivers who are HC/ASI level, to intimidate anyone who comes across thier vehicles. Is there any wonder they have no respect for anything?

Bangalore case, the lady got her desserts. She was arrested, as I understand it, though of course, released right away thereafter.

ASP and Sachin, The key to Police reforms is Politician reform. Otherwise its treating the symptoms and not the disease.

Yes and no. I think that an NDA type institution would reorient the type of officers coming to the police force to a more police based thought, instead of the current bureaucratic thought process...

The vast majority of the Army is in the combat arms and the combat arms are squeaky clean at the bottom. Izzat, personal and that of the battalion is the bedrock of the Army. Without it commanders would be hard put to lead their men to combat. Service arms, depending on their level of interaction with civilian sources (related mostly to procurement) tend to be proportionally corrupt. The reputation of the Army though stands on the combat arms, the men who're out there in knee deep snow in whatever equipment they're given and do their jobs day in and day out without complain.

The army does not operate on corruption for it's primary tasks. As such the people on the receiving end of corruption tends to be the Army itself, manifest in such things as poor equipment or items for a given amount of money. This is vastly different from the common experience with the Police which is corruption for tasks they're mandated to do, like file FIRs and such. Tasks both petty and huge. I've seen the vast difference even in the speed of murder investigations where palms are greased and otherwise.

The police are quite often doing a thankless job while getting shafted by their own bosses(I've been to efficient PS which have to sadly ask people if they can photocopy forms for them.). That shouldn't however stop us from seeing that the police is dipped in corrupt from one end to another. It tinges every element of interaction with them. It's not just about how often the citizen meets them however; it's a question of their very basic core functionality being driven by it. If police corruption like Army corruption was about what quality of lathis and eggs were procured, no one but the Police would care. If you want to draw equivalences that would be like the Artillery commander refusing to do counter battery fire on Paki Arty unless the villagers getting hit, pay him a hafta.

Direct result of "politician reform", viz, clean people in politics: Babus are on the run, and heading for the hills! IPS and IAS officers running away from Bihar on central deputation in droves. Just goes to show, that the higher bureaucracy are not just facilitators, but originators of corruption. When a clean broom comes into office, they dont want to help, but just want to hide their ill gotten assets!

This, IMO is another problem with the "All India Service" system of administration, and should be high on the list of police reforms planned. Officers from other states, far away, have no interest in the local administration of justice. They are not committed to the land, and operate occasionally like colonial marauders that they were in British times.

Why should recruitment, staffing, etc of police service officers not be entirely in the hands of the state? Why have these fair weather friends, who keep running away on central deputations?

http://www.thestatesman.net/index.php?o ... 0&catid=36

X-post from Indian railways thread

I travelled BSB-LKO and return in a span of 4 days.

The UP police cadre are usurping all reserved II Sleeper coaches on all trains to travel for election duty. It is complete goondaism by the polie forces. Legitimate reservation ticket holding passengers including women and babies are being denied their berths by the .303 toting force. The police simply refuse to budge once they have occupied the seats.

One police worthy threatened to shoot a passenger who was quite forceful and persistent in his demand that the constable vacate his berth.

My berth was also usurped. TTE's are unwilling to help.

Many are in various states of inebriation. Some are spitting gobfuls of pan spit in the compartment itself. Many are smoking beedis with their disgusting smell all night long.

One constable told me the government has made transport arrangements but only by bus which the police are unwilling to use.

This is not an isolated instance but am told will continue until the 4th of March. All in all, shameful behaviour by the UP police force.

Disgraceful. Meanwhile, UP Police IPS officers are indulging in a strange trade union action through their IPS association.

Enraged by an IAS officers alleged treatment of a fellow IPS wallah, they are agitating against him, and demanding his transfer. Are such tactics justified? I dont make any remark about the conduct of the IAS man. If it was wrong, so be it, but there must be constitutional methods of protest, which dont try to hold the state to ransom, and dictate policy to the lawfully elected government?

The spat apparently began because the IPS officer resented serving under the IAS officer District Magistrate who was a batch junior to him. The Divisional Commissioner took the IPS officer to task for his behaviour, and it turned out that the IPS officer walked out of the meeting, and went straight to the IPS association to complain. Now the association is trying to armtwist the govt. Furthermore, 6 IPS officers have submitted their "resignations" to the IPS association. Of course, this is meaningless, because a resignation is no resignation unless submitted to the proper authority, viz. the government.

I say, let the govt accept these so called resignations. See how fast the cops will withdraw them.


http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_ec ... ly_1643655

IPS officers in UP themselves are not doodh dhula. What the Divisional Commissioner allegedly did to the IPS wallah, the IPS officers routinely do to OTHERS!

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/for-u ... d/911816/0

ASP follow-up from Pioneer on the Delhi HC incident

Ramana:

Yes, I saw that. Mixed feelings, as I say, and the court reflects that. They do point out that the constable should have taken his duty seriously. But IMO IPS officers also should not act in this high handed and arrogant manner against their subordinates, the public, etc.

Anyway, the Delhi Police has been caught with its pants down, lying before the court pretending that this was an authorised punishment. They have ordered the Commissioner of Police to ensure that public punishment is not meted out to police personnel.

All in all, Seju P Kuruvilla IPS got away quite lightly. He could have been hauled over the coals.

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... ok/912810/



Meanwhile, Kolkata Police proves that sensitivity training of policemen with regard to rape victims is not something they have ever heard of. Here, a rape victim is trying to get a case registered, but instead of doing the work, the cop on duty is asking the rape victim if she wants to go on a date to a night club with him. If it wasnt so tragic for the woman involved, it would be hilarious.

In their convoluted mind she is easy meat just because she went to the Nightclub.

Many liberals in India have very narrow view, in many cases narrow minindess in this nation is passed of as left liberal view.

. People travelling to these parts from South India generally complain that once the train reaches the northern states there is no concept of a reserved seat. All and sundry (and they are not police men) barge in, and put to use the simple concepts of dada giri. So let us not blame the police exclusively here. Seems to be a very generic problem in the area.

On the contrary. A higher responsibility lies on the police, because they are specifically charged with maintaining public order. The law recognises that a criminal act by a policeman is far more serious, because he or she is supposed to uphold the law, and not break it.

We have the best POlice in the World!! Really, we do

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... ttarget=no

He shouldn't have doen that Internet search by himself. Atleast let his kids do it so he would get the right results.


Also shows he has too much free time for Internet.

We will hear an admonishment from mantri/santri.

I dont know where we get our honourable civil servants from, but the system needs some fixing...

OT

^^^Did you guys see this exposition on Cloud Computing by former IT commissioner Vishwa Bandhu Gupta

As a warning - keep away all kinds of liquids from your computer/laptop while you are watching this and have enough place around you should you have to roll on the floor laughing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApQlMm39xr0

Born with the silver spoon...

Patna SP slaps woman protester; she hits back

A sheriff is in principle a legal official with responsibility for a county. In practice, the specific combination of legal, political, and ceremonial duties of a sheriff varies greatly from country to country.

The word "sheriff" is a contraction of the term "shire reeve". The term, from the Old English scīrgerefa, designated a royal official responsible for keeping the peace (a "reeve") throughout a shire or county on behalf of the king.[1] The term was preserved in England notwithstanding the Norman Conquest. From the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms the term spread to several other regions, at an early point to Scotland, latterly to Ireland and the United States.

Sheriffs exists in various countries:

Sheriffs are administrative legal officials (similar to bailiffs) in the Republic of Ireland, Australia, and Canada (with expanded duties in certain provinces).
Sheriffs are judges in Scotland.
Sheriff is a ceremonial position in England, Wales, and India.
In the United States of America the scope of a sheriff varies across states and counties. The sheriff is always a county official and serves as the arm of the county court. In urban areas a sheriff may be restricted to court duties such as administering the county jail, providing courtroom security and prisoner transport, serving warrants, and serving process. Sheriffs may also patrol outside of the city or town limits. In many rural areas, sheriffs and their deputies serve as the principal police force.

Apologies if already posted.


How georgia did it

A good video documentary on Kerala Police Recruitment and training. Made by the Police Constables who were part of the Kerala Armed Police 1 Battalion, Ramavarmapuram Thrissur.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3


Such videos for sure would show case the police recruitment and training in a positive light. The Maratha LI regiment had made a similar video 5-8 back. The video I think was made by external agency, and showed how a recruit finally "transforms" himself to a soldier. The KAP video how ever is a purely home grown effort with all key players being from the Kerala Police itself.

And then we wonder as to why our system is in the doldrums. This is the case of a Spl. prosecutor. The plight of a constable who has to work nearly 18-20 hours daily and mostly for 7 days a week( hardly ever do they get their alloyed weekly off) can only be imagined.

Poor pay leaves Lokayukta sans spl public prosecutor