Bharat Rakshak

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Took time to write a thank you note:

Enirca Lexie : Indian Naval forces react quick

Indeed a great job by Coast Guard and Indian Navy, hip hip hurray!

Many tx.

Here is an intriguing piece of news that Russian oligarchs financed and saved a nuclear sub base-thanked by PM Putin.While strictly this should be in the Intl. thread,I am throwing up the idea that the pvt. players in Indian defence like L&T,Pipapav,and other interested parties,do something similar,where the infrastructure in setting up the shipyards and bases is financed by them-which some have done in large measure,in the guarantee that they will get consistent significant orders for warships ,auxiliaries and subs.This way we will be able to modernise our shipbuilding industry quickly,acquire vessels at lower costs, and use the money saved to modernise state yards.Their appears to be some resistance from state yards,but given their well-known delays which have seen costs reaching those of acquiring them from abroad,and the widening gap between Indian production and that of the Chinese (who gift Pak their new warships and subs),this is inevitable-involving pvt. industry if we are to catch up or at least prevent the gap from widening.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... -LZOFU.DTL

Putin Thanks Oil Billionaires for Saving Nuclear Submarine Base

Ilya Arkhipov, ©2012 Bloomberg News
Monday, February 20, 2012

X-post

The European's clearly shaken my the MMRCA and LCA engine snub and desperate not to loose again, comes an (under the belt) attempt to create an unnecessary controversy to win the MRH competition..

Indian Navy: Europe firm ‘twisting’ facts for $1bn Multi-Role Helicopter deal
Asian Age



All this chest thumping when it features prominently in the Australian Department of Defence's list of 'Projects of Concern' due to engine failures and have they not forgotten the German complaints??

May i suggest you read this book when you have some time. Its unfortunate that Indians dont know their own history, military and otherwise. Before Indians read about Mughal and British histories, it is important that they read histories of other regions of India, military and otherwise. I have observed both in online forums and outside that Indians are ignorant of their own history as a whole. They might be knowing the history of their own regions and sometimes their surrounding regions but thats it. They are not exposed to the history of India as a whole (which includes the history of other Indian regions apart from their own) which is unfortunate. That is the reason why you have some ignorant Indians still beleiving in martial race theory etc etc.

http://www.amazon.com/Nagapattinam-Suva ... 9812309373

Nagapattinam to Suvarnadwipa: Reflections on the Chola Naval Expeditions to Southeast Asia
by Hermann Kulke, K. Kesavapany and Vijay Sakhuja

But we still remember that teh IN Seakings which were "grounded" after we burst a few N crackers !!!!!

K

Kersi D, after the 98' patakhas there was a new procurement policy envisaged by George uncle. It required warehousing spare needed for five years of operation within desh. Dont know if it is still followed. But the recent higher procurement cost from unkil seems to indicate that. Some new innovations adopted by the army to maintain such huge amount of spares were reported in The Statesman that time. And our forces always try to increase longevity of the product thus require fewer spares than the western counterparts ( i mean uropeans/khans not ....).

Fan-art by diletant2010:

the indian rule in khmer, srivijaya et al cannot have been through the use of rowboats to cross the bay of bengal and south china sea.

arikamedu near pondicherry was a port of trade with rome from long before the cholas. I am sure from before those time onwards we had the shipbuilding tech to cross the arabian sea, reach into the red sea and across the bay of bengal for sure. some of it still survives in the wooden dhow makers in the west coast iirc.

There have been tons of old rotten ships excavated by the ASI and history professor teams all over the TN coast. They have been plying the seas for thousands of years to rome and arabia. Its not all out of thin air you know.

Here is a good website containing a lot of information about Chola Navy, its structure, its rank, its campaigns, vessels and a whole lot of other interesting information etc. It also gives a lot of references if people are interested to explore further.

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Chola_Navy

Here is another one that talks about what happened to the records, besides other things.
http://www.sangam.org/2007/10/Shipping.php

Hopefully, one day our kids will read about all this in our history books. Otherwise they will continue to look for excellence and professionalism exclusively outside India.

Srivijaya tried to be the pakistan of its time - using strategic location and extending moral support to the pirate clans!

nice to read about the Cholas....seems very open minded and proactive rulers who incorporated whatever advances they could lay in from arab and chinese sources into their own inventory and tech base...a true sign of a trading and oceanic mentality.

TN's long and magnificent traditions in metal work survive to this day not just in bronze statuary and such but in the vast number of metal working and machine tools industries in the industrialized towns of the state.

^^^ Singha ji, not to forget Socotra in that list, i.e Sukha-dhara dweepa. With reference to ship-building tech.

if I had my demands met, IAF C17s would be nose to tail in Socotra AFB already.

Actually we can see references of Cholas in Ramayana. Cholas, Srilanka, Ramayan characters and Srirangam temple in South India are connected. They are very good in administration. They conducted elections as we do now and the society is more open comparable to current stds with all values. Heck, they even had equivalent of Valentine's day. (If my info is right)

Not only Cholas others who ruled peninsular India were also good in maritime activities. Cholas excelled others.

For comparison the chinese submersible Jiaolong undersea craft – named after a mythical sea dragon – reached 5,057 metres below sea level in a test dive in international waters of the northeastern Pacific.It was a manned mission.

^^

I have heard about this as well, but have never seen any actual proof myself. I am not sure how this reference is possible though. Chola reigned from 300 BC to 1279 AD. Ramayana is supposed to have happened roughly arond 5000 BC.

This could very well be one of the efforts to post date and confuse Indian History by motivated Britishers.

Can we move tangential historical references to the history thread please? We are more concerned about the In today and the challenges it faces.

Now the Chakra is expected to arrive in March,just around the corner and when she arrives we will have more (offical) details about the sub hopefully.She will from latest reports be based at Vizag which has turned out to be the IN's nuclear sub HQ,with the building of ATVs there as well.Sev. earlier reports indicated that a new sub base to house in particular the N-subs in particular,as the port was getting very congested,and SSBNs require complete sanitisation from merchant marine operations,which would impinge upon their ingress and egress movements,news of the matter in recent times has been lacking.Is there any further news about the status Rambili,etc.?

imo chakra arrival is when diving sea trials would begin in earnest for the Arihant.

Wonder when they will start to base submarines at Seabird. After the second phase is completed or the third?

Want to know only one thing. Which part of the way will this sub remain on the surface?

near hainan?

Anyone heard anything further on the RFP's for the second submarine line. Been ages since there has been any news on the same.

This has a slim to none chance of happening. The British groups like Lloyds make a tidy sum out of the business of actually paying ransom as "convenience" fees, when it is paid to Somali warlords. Add to the fact that most of the times insurers insist on using British services since they are a part of the old boy network and they pay rather than play hardball. All in all, its a tidy business for them.

From Coast Guard website...

http://indiancoastguard.nic.in/IndianCo ... /COMCG.htm



Guess this one fails the "Chinese room" test in Artificial Intelligence...

Update on Medium Range Maritime Reconnaissance (MRMR) -

1. necessity for procuring accepted
2. requirement for six aircraft, upped by three, with an option for additional aircraft.
3. Request for Proposal (RFP) to be issued soon.

India approves 9 maritime patrol aircraft buy

Govt nod for $1bn Navy plane deal


Gurus, why do we have P-8I and Airbus in this?

8 P-8I contract was inked for $2.1 billion, and cost of of six Airbus aircraft for IAF refueler tanker contest was estimated at $1 billion (plus latter will incur additional charges for the reconnaissance equipment). How will we justify higher off-the-shelf cost plus there obvious higher operational cost if we go fro these giants?

It's actually not the P-8I on offer for this MRMR RFP. Boeing is offering "diet" P-8:

Was this filed in a hurry? Typos in the title (Its Pearl Harbor-Hickham) and grammatical errors in the text:

Thank you srai ji!

It seems that it'll have lesser capabilities than the P-8i Neptune and that will decrease its initial cost. I was just wondering that the off-the-shelf and operational cost of 737 will still be more than what Navy might have envisaged for their MPA program.

Where did you get that from?

TIA.

Airbus has no current MPA. the A321 MPA proposal found no buyers.

if we go with P8I-Lite the advantage is , later as operational needs dictate they can be fitted with larger tanks and missing eqpt upto P8I std and supplement the original lot, while other a/c take over coastal patrol role. we should ask boeing to leave behind all the electrical power, fuel tanks and racks of the p8i as-is in the proposal though. we will just fill up with less fuel

NRao ji,

I took the cue from defenseindustrydaily.com's archive of India’s Aerial Tanker Competition

Under the heading, India’s New Tankers: Enter Airbus, it states

The wiki puts the unit cost a little higher at $200 million.

Actually, I just realized that it is A319 that is competing for the MPA and NOT A330, which is competing for Aerial tanker competition. The unit cost of A319 is $80 million a piece so that will work out to be around $720 million and leave some cash for procuring reconnaissance equipment.

MY BAD! Thank you for pointing it out!